Don-Volga Canal

[Blooded]

Hello All!

I was wondering how much time and cost it might take to finish the Don-Volga Canal Projects.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/volga-don-canal.htm

It was started by Peter the Great and not finished until 1953 apparently.

I would like to focus on the Don to Volgograd route. I am not sure at what stage it would be currently(% complete).

Any ideas of difficulties, comparisons or expenses would be of benefit.

Thanks

[The Rock Doctor]

Borys may have some ideas on this...

[maddox]

Not only Borys has his idea's about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga-Don_Canal

Short and to the point history of that canal.

[Borys]

:)
I think the Kuma-Manych canal, running along the fault of same name, is a better idea. It is longer, but can be built in a mannner where  all water flows for the locks would be by gravity, from the Don.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2074.0
Added benefit - in some 150 years you can bring up the Caspian to the level of the world ocean, if you wish.
Borys

[Borys]

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia_Canal

[Korpen]

:)
I think the Kuma-Manych canal, running along the fault of same name, is a better idea. It is longer, but can be built in a mannner where  all water flows for the locks would be by gravity, from the Don.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2074.0
Added benefit - in some 150 years you can bring up the Caspian to the level of the world ocean, if you wish.
Borys

Disagree, it is a route some ten times longer, and require about the same amount of locks. The amount of digging is more extensive, and there is more complex hydrologic interplays to take into account.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Yes, much longer.
If I understood the wiki article correctly, it needs 6-10 locks, versus 13, and the aggregate difference in levels is c.80 metres versus 132 metres. Not to mention that, with gentler gradients, it is easier to builder larger locks.

And if you dig down a bit, then only the 3-6 locks for the descent to the Caspian are needed ...

What hydrological interplays?

Borys

[Borys]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=940DE2DB103DEE32A25751C2A9639C946097D6CF

[Blooded]

Using the last article(1901) would suggest a price tag of around $374 (navalism). Based on the pricetag of Imp. Marie(approx $9 million US=2.2+million Pounds=22+ mil Navalism). 17 Imp. Maries would equal the $153 million US.

Thats alot of cash. The article is talking about a canal 550 versts(close to a km) long. Is that the eurasian canal? or the Don-Volga? If its refering to the eurasian canal how much less would the Don-Volga be?

What benefits could be expected? Would it be about the same as 5 IC($375 Navalism)? Or would it be worth more as I expect it would use alot of BP as well?

So far I had earmarked the Civilian money as going towards Agriculture Projects. As I believe with the loss of the Ukraine, food supplies could be dangerously low (assuming a desire for a self supporting economy).

Hope I am making sense, I am awfully tired today.

[Borys]

That costly project is for the Eurasian canal.
Volga-Don - my ballpark is 1/4th-1/6th of that price.
Greater elevation difference to overcome, more locks, tougher hills to dig through. But all in all smaller.

Now, the benefits of a MARITIME canal are not possible to recreat in Navalism. But in RL such a canal would be a great boost to the Russian economy, as freighters could venture up the Volga. Due to the size of the river, quite a long way upriver.

And, after filling in the Caspian, you could build battleships at Tsaritsin/Volgograd (it is at sealevel), or maybe Saratov? With all materials from the Ural industrial region brought in by barge ...

Don't worry about lack of food. Had it not been for the Soviet holocaust of the peasanty, Russia would had always been self sufficient in food. With or without Ukraina.

Borys

[P3D]

And, after filling in the Caspian, you could build battleships at Tsaritsin/Volgograd (it is at sealevel), or maybe Saratov? With all materials from the Ural industrial region brought in by barge ...

Not with a 3.6m canal depth.

[Korpen]

And, after filling in the Caspian, you could build battleships at Tsaritsin/Volgograd (it is at sealevel), or maybe Saratov? With all materials from the Ural industrial region brought in by barge ...

By the time the Caspian sea have reached sea level i think that the anti-gravity sleds have made barges floating in water obsolete, to say nothing about battleships.


I think that the eurasia canal would be a huge waste of money for russia, compared to a volga-don canal. The Caspian route would, apart from being more expensive to build, also force shipping to take a long roundabout route into the Caspian Sea, giving longer travel times.

[Borys]

P3D - I'm thinking of something 120 metres wide and 10-12 metres deep.

I believe that filling the Caspian would take some about 100 years, if carried out at 40 cubic kilometres (I hope I go the number right - the Volga is c.200 cubic kilometres a year) a year.

At present the Volga-Don canal is at maximum capacity - 4M tonnes a year.

Borys

[Korpen]

P3D - I'm thinking of something 120 metres wide and 10-12 metres deep.

I believe that filling the Caspian would take some about 100 years, if carried out at 40 cubic kilometres (I hope I go the number right - the Volga is c.200 cubic kilometres a year) a year.

At present the Volga-Don canal is at maximum capacity - 4M tonnes a year.

Borys

At 40Km3 you would never fill the caspian to sea level, as you are looking at a 20-30% increase in surface area if the caspian sea was at sea level, that would give 20-30% more evaporation.

Hm, someone's math is off, the Caspian sea is 371 00km2 large, a raise with 28m (0,028km) would need 10 388km3 of water. But due to increased size lets say 11 000km3 even, at 40km3 / year that would take about 275 years.

[Borys]

My math is very often off :), as I have no head for numbers. Thank you for your calculations.

I remember reading that the current 20km3 "surplus" of the Volga over the evaporation rate is bringing up the sea level by 20cm a year. I extrapolated from there, guessing at effects of increased size.

Close to 99% of the increase in area would be in the north - apart from slivers of the coast, a piece of Azerbaijan and the Kara-Bogaz-Kol gulf in the south, all the remaining gains are the Kalmuk and Orenburg Steppes, plus the lower Volga Valley and delta. Frozen in the winter, BTW.
Borys