Baltic League cruiser flottillas

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I have never come across "flotilla" used for cruisers. Only TBs and destroyers. Cruisers come in Divisions or Squadrons.
But there is much I don't know, so maybe there were cruiser flotillas ...
Borys

[Korpen]

Or he simply does not follow brittish naming tradition.
Btw, Division is a company in the cavalry... ;) (At least in Sweden)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Oh, you just opened a can of worms ....
:D

Inthe cavalry, in different armies and at different times, above a platoon you had:
company, troop, or squadron

usually companies or troops were combined into squadrons.

squadrons, in turn, could be combined into divisions to make a regiment

or the regiment was composed of squadrons, with no intermediary level

Teeheee!
Borys

[khymerion]

Considering that I really can't seem to make a good destroyer work to save my life...  though if it ruffles feathers enough... I can easily go and... call them patrol squadrons or something.  You can also notice that I don't follow the traditional groupings for ships either.   Ehhhhh... it looked good on paper.  I blame it on lack of sleep.

[P3D]

Look at my destroyer  what can be done within current rules:

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=137.0

[Ithekro]

Could the Baltic nations have been odd and never bothered to build anything small enough to be considered a destroyer?  Maybe torpedo boats and then something on the order of the early German light cruisers (4.1" guns) as the smallest tactical units?  Those aren't much larger than later destroyers.  Early era destroyers are really hard to sim.  I tried simming Chile's 1900 era destroyers at 315 tons with everything else JAne's has to say about them and SS can't handle them...to light on the block coefficient.  It handled them at around 350 tons, but just barely.  You'll not Rohan's destroyers are rather bulky because SS doesn't like light vessels...since SS was designed for cruisers and battleship mainly.  No word yet on SS3's handling of light ships.

[The Rock Doctor]

If the design process is the sticky point, feel free to play in SS with the Gran Colombian designs I've posted in my Armada area.  All you really need to do is adjust the gun and torpedo stats and you'd be okay.

[swamphen]

Also, historical designs are good baselines - Swedish should work nicely, and you could also go with German type GTBs.  ;)

[khymerion]

My biggest problem is getting a small gunboat to perform accordingly with the limited torpedo technologies available and within the primitive size requirements I need to work within.  Sadly, due to my lack of low end propulsion technologies, destroyer construction techniques, and the weapon of choice of the destroyer being... less than stellar... I am saddled with what are in essence... attrition units 10 to 20 years outdated.  By my own choose but... still.  Out of compassion for the sailors, I would rather send them out in a wooden hulled clipper ship or viking long ships before I send them out is something that... well... looks like it will break in half, roll over, and sink if a good wave hits it and is powered by hyperactive gerbils trying to doggy paddle.

That and the size needed to make the destroyer work to fit the scheme of the fleet puts them far too close to my 'patrol cruisers' in size but lacking the survivability verse small caliber weapons I desire.  Till I pour money into the sink hole of destroyers, the low end tactical unit in the fleet will sadly remain my Type 0 slip buildable export 'cruisers'.

[Ithekro]

Hmmm.  Well have you considered that the historical destroyers of Chile looked like this after they were reengined in 1910:

(This is the only one of the group that I could sim out with a workable block coefficient...all the others are around 0.28)

Capitan Thompson

Chilean Destroyer laid down 1898 (Engine 1910)

Displacement:
289 t light; 299 t standard; 350 t normal; 389 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
214.00 ft / 213.00 ft x 21.50 ft x 5.33 ft (normal load)
65.23 m / 64.92 m x 6.55 m x 1.62 m

Armament:
1 - 2.88" / 73.3 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1898 Model
Quick firing gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
5 - 2.29" / 58.2 mm guns in single mounts, 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1898 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 42 lbs / 19 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,465 ihp / 4,823 Kw = 25.25 kts
Range 1,150nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 92 tons)

Complement:
39 - 52

Cost:
£0.041 million / $0.162 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 186 tons, 53.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 93 tons, 26.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 61 tons, 17.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
91 lbs / 41 Kg = 7.6 x 2.9 " / 73 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.79

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.502
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 95
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 4.75 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Mid (50 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 8.59 ft / 2.62 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.0 %
Waterplane Area: 2,939 Square feet or 273 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 39 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 88 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.16
- Overall: 0.54
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[P3D]

Khymerion,

Did you consider ordering destroyers from abroad?

[P3D]

There are a few nations around apparently engaged in Railroad construction. Sell them a few thousand tons of rail in exchange for Destroyers.

[khymerion]

Ahhh...  as for the 1910 engine technology... I wish I had that.  That would make things simpler... but... as for the purchasing of warships from over seas...  Definitely an option... now to find a seller...  I was holding off on major orders until official things got set in stone and play time began to move...  patience is everything.

[Desertfox]

NS is willing to sell anything to anyone even France and Austria.

[P3D]

Note: selling goes by $.  Raw BP for ship exchange won't work. You have to exchange a finished product for another finished product, no shipping of armored plates overseas that are even made to the wrong specifications, has nonstandard thickness, and generally unknoen wuality.