Coastal Monitor

[Logi]

Since I will playing soon, I wanted to see what others think of mydesign for a coastal ship

RNS C2, Republic of Ireland Coastal Moniter laid down 1915

Displacement:
   9,507 t light; 9,820 t standard; 9,995 t normal; 10,136 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (406.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 100.00 ft (Bulges 115.00 ft) x (15.00 / 15.18 ft)
   (123.75 m / 121.92 m) x 30.48 m (Bulges 35.05 m)  x (4.57 / 4.63 m)

Armament:
      2 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 671.17lbs / 304.44kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1915 Model
     1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.30lbs / 0.14kg shells, 500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 1,345 lbs / 610 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.00" / 76 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      1.00" / 25 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm         -         8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck: 8.00" / 203 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 8.00" / 203 mm  Quarter deck: 8.00" / 203 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.00" / 51 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,804 shp / 2,092 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 20,000nm at 3.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 316 tons

Complement:
   499 - 649

Cost:
   £0.689 million / $2.755 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 301 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 5,007 tons, 50.1 %
      - Belts: 296 tons, 3.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 355 tons, 3.6 %
      - Bulges: 222 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 112 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,002 tons, 40.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 106 tons, 1.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,883 tons, 38.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 488 tons, 4.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 210 tons, 2.1 %
      - Hull below water: 80 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - Above deck: 120 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55,746 lbs / 25,286 Kg = 83.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 35.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 2.04
   Metacentric height 15.4 ft / 4.7 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.507 / 0.508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.48 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 26 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 87
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Average freeboard:      5.43 ft / 1.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 22.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 53.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,822 Square feet or 2,492 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 682 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.41
      - Longitudinal: 0.89
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Misc (210 t):
          Hull Below Water
                  - 80 t Blige Pumps
          Hull Above Water
                  - 10 t Construction Reserve
          Above Deck
                  - 100 t FCS
                  - 20 t Wireless

[miketr]

The design has some issues.

1) 400 x 100 is a very bad length x width.  You have a 4 x 1 LW ratio; try for something atleast 6 or 7 to 1. 

2) The firepower achieved on 9,500 light tons is poor

3) The armor deck is massive to the point of beyond overkill as its double your belt.  If you want a big deck, go for 3".  Over all you have too much armor in the wrong places.

4) You picked a strang speed for range, go with 10 knots at least.  With the such small bunkerage I doubt it has any real range at speed.

5) Keep in mind your economy, you picked a very small nation and with a very week economy.  To build this thing would take 5 years for you.  DD's, gun boats and small cruisers would odds are better serve your nation. 

I take it this is SS3 Beta?  We use SS2.

You might want to look here for some ship ideas. 

http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/index.html

Michael

[maddox]

It is SS3. 

We adhere, for now, to SS2.

The L/B ratio is not cast in concrete, but around 6/1 for warships is what most shipbuilders in the Nverse accept as normal, with up to 12/1 for TBs, DD's and simular fast combatants.
Other small issues are
Length, a type 1 slip/dock allows you to build ships up to 120m/393.7 feet  OA length. It's an option to keep this in mind, dry docks and slips are expensive to build and/or enlarge.

Bulges. Due the Nverse History, most established ship builders see Bulges as a desperate solution to "keep sinking ships afloat"

Oil firing. How much oil does Ireland have in 1912?  or even earlier?  Coal is a lesser problem, but oil?


But my interpretation of your monitor.

Shillelagh, Irish Seagoing monitor laid down 1908

Displacement:
   10.008 t light; 10.397 t standard; 11.952 t normal; 13.195 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   394,60 ft / 390,42 ft x 65,62 ft x 22,97 ft (normal load)
   120,28 m / 119,00 m x 20,00 m  x 7,00 m

Armament:
      2 - 11,00" / 279 mm guns (1x2 guns), 665,50lbs / 301,87kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
      8 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1908 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1.832 lbs / 831 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140
   4 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   253,77 ft / 77,35 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   5,00" / 127 mm   136,63 ft / 41,64 m   9,72 ft / 2,96 m
   Upper:   12,0" / 305 mm   253,77 ft / 77,35 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   253,77 ft / 77,35 m   22,48 ft / 6,85 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 4,50" / 114 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6.459 shp / 4.818 Kw = 15,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.798 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   570 - 742

Cost:
   £0,593 million / $2,371 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 229 tons, 1,9%
   Armour: 6.244 tons, 52,2%
      - Belts: 3.767 tons, 31,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 317 tons, 2,6%
      - Armament: 435 tons, 3,6%
      - Armour Deck: 1.726 tons, 14,4%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 359 tons, 3,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.926 tons, 24,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.944 tons, 16,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33.727 lbs / 15.298 Kg = 50,7 x 11,0 " / 279 mm shells or 9,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 3,2 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 15,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,711
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3,28 ft / -1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Mid (50%):      12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Stern:      13,88 ft / 4,23 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,15 ft / 4,01 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 43,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86,4%
   Waterplane Area: 20.735 Square feet or 1.926 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 496 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,60
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Logi]

miketr, how much firepower is normal for 9500 t light?

[maddox]

That depends on the role of the ship.

A 10 Ktons BB will have more trown weight as a 10Ktons AC, but the AC will have an higher speed and most of the time, better range/cruise speed.

But, comparing to the closest design France has in use to 10 Ktons, the Orange Republic build 11.775 Ktons Gloire II has a broadside of 2564kg.
With a speed of 25 kts.

[miketr]

On 10K tons I would say at least 2x2 11" guns; if you are going to go with 11" guns.  Keep the following in mind.

You are in effect building a Pre-Dreadnought / coastal defense battleship.  Does Ireland need such a ship in the first place and or make good use of it?  Nations in Nvers are building dreadnought warships.  Up to tripple this size.  So your ship wouldn't be able to stand up to such warships with any hope of success.  Sweden in the Baltic built such ships but the Baltic is very tight waters; Ireland is on the Atlantic.  If you want such a large ship I would suggest you save up some cash and keep an eye out.  Every now and then PDN's and AC are sold; attempt to buy one of them when they come up for sale.

In the mean time you need to figure out what is the mission of your navy and how do you go about achieving it.  You have very limited resources.  Are you going to go for asymmetrical warfare (mines, subs and TB's), cruiser warfare (AMC's and long ranged small crusiers)?  Again I would strongly suggest attempting to build nothing much larger than a 3 to 5K light displacement and mostly smaller.     

Michael 

[Desertfox]

Take it from someone who did the impossible (bought 4 battleships and 21 destroyers with no cash!) the Used Car Lot will be your best friend. Used your BPs for the small fry, use cash on the big stuff.

[Guinness]

Take it from someone who did the impossible (bought 4 battleships and 21 destroyers with no cash!) the Used Car Lot will be your best friend. Used your BPs for the small fry, use cash on the big stuff.

You never know when Crazy Teddie's (Roosevelt) used ship show might open up again.

One suspects though that the CSA's sale of ships to New Zion might turn out to be an issue in the Presidential election of 1914. (cue ominous music)