CSA New Designs 1913 (The official Thread!)

[Jefgte]

Nice drawing & well balanced DD

IMO,1930 look.
For 1914 LD, I prefer USN four pipes look.


Jef  ;)

[Guinness]

I do too, but Carthaginian had already established the trunked funnels as a design attribute for CSA Torpedo Rams, and while I considered deviating from that, I decided in the end not to. Many of the details, especially the forward superstructure, is based on the UK V&W class.

At any rate, here's a quick hack of a 3 funneled design, although now that I look at it, maybe 2 funnels would be better. I had to lose the 1" clipping/backup wireless receiver room I'd imagined was hanging out under the 1" MG platform.

I also suppose a compromise would be to move the single funnel top a bit further aft, and make it even bigger. Or maybe add a 3rd smaller funnel aft of the big one? Maybe 3 boiler rooms, the first two trunked into one funnel, the 3rd having it's own.

[Jefgte]

IMO, the 2nd funnel is not neccessary ...

Imagine the boilers room...


Jef  ;)

[Guinness]

Here's a two funnel version. I did some trunks for both funnels. In my minds eye, she'd have had 4 little funnels (much like a US Flush Decker), but the Confederate preference for some funnel trunking won out. I also ditched the enclosed FC position for an open position with a range finder. SS attached again for completeness. I think (hope) this looks more appropriate for the period.



TRM-235, CSA Torpedo Ram laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,038 t standard; 1,204 t normal; 1,336 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   339.00 ft / 334.00 ft x 30.50 ft x 10.04 ft (normal load)
   103.33 m / 101.80 m x 9.30 m  x 3.06 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1914 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 124 lbs / 56 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,000 shp / 19,396 Kw = 31.51 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 298 tons

Complement:
   101 - 132

Cost:
   £0.177 million / $0.707 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 643 tons, 53.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 287 tons, 23.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 204 tons, 16.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 3.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     261 lbs / 119 Kg = 8.2 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.412
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 81
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.70 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   17.75 ft / 5.41 m
      - Mid (33 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.23 ft / 3.42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,316 Square feet or 587 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 53 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 128 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.90
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weights:
25 tons: Fire control
6 tons: Torpedoes
4 tons: 12 depth charges (launched from stern racks)
10 tons: Reserve

Range at top speed: 11.9 hours, 375 nm
Range at 28.5 knots: 18.0 hours, 515 nm
Range at 15 knots: 2990 nm

Seakeeping at 28.5 knots: 1.08

[Talos]

I like it! Now that's the kind of destroyer Egypt could use.

[Jefgte]

Superb
I want them too for Peru  ;)


Jef  ;)

[P3D]

Try some German GTBs from german-navy.de or French ones from the ministry website.
On some there's some slight curving up but that stops further from the stem.

[Guinness]

I just couldn't leave well enough alone, so I fiddled with it a little more. I dropped the 1.5" AA gun almost to the top of the after deck house (it just didn't look right all the way down on the deckhouse roof). I also shortened and lowered slightly the forward superstructure, and moved the 1" MGs to the bridge wings. Finally, I changed from steel to canvas surrounding the compass platform. I think all that combined with the open, rather spartan range finder position and the twin funnels helps a lot. You guys can tell me what you think. I've certainly got ample illustrations of possible future modernizations though! :)

Try some German GTBs from german-navy.de or French ones from the ministry website.
On some there's some slight curving up but that stops further from the stem.

I tried it a bunch of different ways, but I could never get it to work right. Maybe if I worked at 1 pixel = 3" scale instead of 1 pixel = 6" scale. At any rate, I think it looks good with the straight portholes, and there is a certain optical illusion that lends one to believing they rise just a bit toward the stem.



TRM-235, CSA Torpedo Ram laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,038 t standard; 1,204 t normal; 1,336 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   339.00 ft / 334.00 ft x 30.50 ft x 10.04 ft (normal load)
   103.33 m / 101.80 m x 9.30 m  x 3.06 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1914 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 124 lbs / 56 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,000 shp / 19,396 Kw = 31.51 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 298 tons

Complement:
   101 - 132

Cost:
   £0.177 million / $0.707 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 643 tons, 53.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 287 tons, 23.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 204 tons, 16.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 3.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     261 lbs / 119 Kg = 8.2 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.412
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 81
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.70 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   17.75 ft / 5.41 m
      - Mid (33 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.23 ft / 3.42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,316 Square feet or 587 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 53 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 128 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.90
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weights:
25 tons: Fire control
6 tons: Torpedoes
4 tons: 12 depth charges (launched from stern racks)
10 tons: Reserve

Range at top speed: 11.9 hours, 375 nm
Range at 28.5 knots: 18.0 hours, 515 nm
Range at 15 knots: 2990 nm

Seakeeping at 28.5 knots: 1.08