CSA New Designs 1913 (The official Thread!)

[Guinness]

I've got designs all over the place, but as they get finalized, I'll post them here. The first is a new 250t Coastal Torpedo Boat (not not a "Torpedo Ram" as this design is considered to small for that classification):

Persuaded by arguments made by the Naval Experimental Station about the value of small torpedo craft for use in near-shore waters for coast defense, the Navy committed to a production run of at least 10.



TB-01, CSA Coastal Torpedo Boat laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   250 t light; 259 t standard; 309 t normal; 349 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   224.00 ft / 216.00 ft x 18.00 ft x 6.63 ft (normal load)
   68.27 m / 65.84 m x 5.49 m  x 2.02 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on centreline aft
   Weight of broadside 41 lbs / 19 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 112
   3 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,500 shp / 6,341 Kw = 28.08 kts
   Range 1,970nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 90 tons

Complement:
   36 - 47

Cost:
   £0.039 million / $0.156 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 1.8 %
   Machinery: 160 tons, 51.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 81 tons, 26.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 59 tons, 19.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     71 lbs / 32 Kg = 3.3 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.420
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.25 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.25 ft / 2.82 m
      - Mid (40 %):      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   5.75 ft / 1.75 m
      - Stern:      5.75 ft / 1.75 m
      - Average freeboard:   7.40 ft / 2.25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 46.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,424 Square feet or 225 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 43 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 17 lbs/sq ft or 85 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.18
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Note: Forward 3.5" mount carries an unarmored spray shield.
Misc Weights: 3 torpedoes, 1 ton reserve
Range at max speed: 310 nm, 11 hours

[The Rock Doctor]

Nice pic.  She looks right for the time period.

The cross-sectional hull strength needs to be at least 0.50.  Try knocking the range down by 10 or 20 nm and see if that gets her there.

[Guinness]

Yeah, it drifted just a bit when I transposed from max speed range to cruise speed in SS. I updated above.

Thanks for the compliment. I spent a lot of time looking at old TBs while drawing this one.

[Korpen]

Cute little bugger. :)
I think the drawing is verye nice, and the design is fine, very usefull for costal operations.

[Borys]

Purdy!

[Guinness]

OOC: This proves the CSA *can* design ugly ships :)

The CSA has embarked on the design of a family of new fleet auxiliaries, built to similar hull designs and using similar (if very low powered) machinery. The first two types of ships from this family are a new Fleet Tender, and an Oiler.

One example of the Tender, and two Oilers have been ordered from French yards for construction in 1913.



One building.

CSS Mount Mitchell, CSA Torpedo Boat Tender laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   3,900 t light; 4,043 t standard; 7,100 t normal; 9,546 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   337.00 ft / 332.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 14.68 ft (normal load)
   102.72 m / 101.19 m x 18.29 m  x 4.47 m

Armament:
      1 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward
   Weight of broadside 21 lbs / 10 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,900 ihp / 1,417 Kw = 11.31 kts
   Range 44,100nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,503 tons

Complement:
   386 - 502

Cost:
   £0.169 million / $0.676 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 114 tons, 1.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,752 tons, 24.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,201 tons, 45.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,026 tons, 28.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,996 lbs / 11,792 Kg = 1,212.7 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 4.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.850
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.22 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 31 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (24.00 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Stern:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.80 ft / 6.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,361 Square feet or 1,706 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 311 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 331 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.51
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weights:

Misc Weights:

120 t: 80 reload torpedoes for squadron
25t: Wireless
1000t: Accommodations for 500 TB crew
881t: Misc. Stores, workshops, spare parts, etc. etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Two building: CSS Poplar, and CSS Elm


CSS Poplar, CSA Oiler laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,960 t light; 2,104 t standard; 7,100 t normal; 11,098 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   337.00 ft / 332.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 14.68 ft (normal load)
   102.72 m / 101.19 m x 18.29 m  x 4.47 m

Armament:
      1 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward
   Weight of broadside 21 lbs / 10 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,900 ihp / 1,417 Kw = 11.31 kts
   Range 72,410nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8,994 tons

Complement:
   386 - 502

Cost:
   £0.095 million / $0.379 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 114 tons, 1.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,413 tons, 19.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,140 tons, 72.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 425 tons, 6.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     63,908 lbs / 28,988 Kg = 2,981.1 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 15.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 2.37
   Metacentric height 8.7 ft / 2.7 m
   Roll period: 8.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.850
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.22 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 31 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      8.00 ft / 2.44 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.20 ft / 3.41 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 13.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,361 Square feet or 1,706 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 1,000 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 303 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weights:

425t: Cargo, etc.

[Borys]

Fugly!

[Jefgte]

Why not...

But For the oilers

" Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped"

Not cool


IMHO, 11.3kts is too short speed.
1900shp are perhaps too short in storm.


Jef  ;)

[Guinness]

Yet another new for 1913 design: the "C" Class Submarine:

Experiments with the A and B class coastal subs indicate potential for the submersible boat as an offensive as well as defensive weapon. With exploring such operations in mind, the Navy commissioned the design of a much larger boat, the C-Class. At least 5 will be acquired during 1913.



Type-C Submarine

DISPLACEMENT:
750t Surfaced
955t Submerged

LENGTH:
205 ft. overall
159 ft.  pressure hull

BEAM:
25 ft overall
25 ft. pressure hull

Draught (surfaced):
11 ft.

HEIGHT (overall, minus periscopes )
28.5 ft.

POWER
2800 hp (sf) (4x700 hp diesel engines)
1000 hp (sb)

SPEED (knots)
14 kts (sf)
  6 kts (sb)

RANGE:
6000 n mi. @ 14 kts (sf)
   70 n mi. @   6 kts (sb)

TORPEDOES:
4 x 20 in. (508mm) bow tubes
2 x 20 in. (508mm) stern tubes
8 torpedoes

MINES:
No Mines Carried

GUNS:
1 x 3.5" firing 20lb. shell
1 x 1" MG firing 0.50lb. shell

CREW:
35 officers and men

MAX DEPTH:
150 ft

[Guinness]

Why not...

But For the oilers

" Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped"

Not cool


IMHO, 11.3kts is too short speed.
1900shp are perhaps too short in storm.


Jef  ;)

The top speed of these ships may well become an issue during future fleet operations, but the powers that be don't see much need for speeds in excess of 10 knots, espcially since the much larger and faster Tender/Oiler Ingals is already in service with operations with the main fleet in mind, and the larger, faster oiler Spruce is building. These ships are seen as "second line" auxiliaries, in other words.

As to the topspace issue: the Oiler is cramped. It's main job is carrying oil though, so there isn't too much concern about that. The crew will still live luxuriously compared to the other two ships posted in this thread ;)

OOC: These ships are designed to be a compromise, and a bit of an overreaction to Ingals and Spruce, which could be considered too large and over-engineered for their roles. I've simmed them both with a top speed closer to 16 knots in the same hull, which could be an innovation in the future.

[Talos]

These ships are seen as "second line" auxiliaries, in other words.

Auxiliary auxiliaries then?  ;D

That 250t TB is interesting, could be exactly what Egypt is looking for as the basic unit of the new fleet.

[Guinness]

The first new fleet Torpedo Ram design in a few years is also the largest Torpedo Ram ever built. The TR-235 class is designed in response to larger, more heavily armed foreign designs that have appeared. TR-235 will also be the first Torpedo Ram to carry a short range Marconi set and depth charges as designed. The 4" gun, now firing the new 30 pound shell persists, despite proposals to arm her with the new 4.75" 50 pounder.

When she enters service, TR-235 will be the fastest ship in the Confederate fleet. 5 ships are planned for laying down in the 2nd half of 1913, with the intention of continuing series production of the design over the next few years.

The waterline rendering is depicted with a proposed new camouflage scheme for wartime use on Torpedo Rams.



TRM-235, CSA Torpedo Ram laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,038 t standard; 1,204 t normal; 1,336 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   339.00 ft / 334.00 ft x 30.50 ft x 10.04 ft (normal load)
   103.33 m / 101.80 m x 9.30 m  x 3.06 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1914 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 124 lbs / 56 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,000 shp / 19,396 Kw = 31.51 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 298 tons

Complement:
   101 - 132

Cost:
   £0.177 million / $0.707 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 643 tons, 53.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 287 tons, 23.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 204 tons, 16.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 3.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     261 lbs / 119 Kg = 8.2 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.412
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 81
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.70 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   17.75 ft / 5.41 m
      - Mid (33 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.23 ft / 3.42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,316 Square feet or 587 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 53 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 128 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.90
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weights:
25 tons: Fire control
6 tons: Torpedoes
4 tons: 12 depth charges (launched from stern racks)
10 tons: Reserve

Range at top speed: 11.9 hours, 375 nm
Range at 28.5 knots: 18.0 hours, 515 nm
Range at 15 knots: 2990 nm

Seakeeping at 28.5 knots: 1.08

[P3D]

Just being picky on the (excellent as usual) drawings.
The portholes on the forecastle should be more or less horizontal, not rising towards the stem - the weather deck should stay the same level afaik.

[Guinness]

Yeah, I haven't been sure about that. I guess on flush deck designs, the weather deck rises with the deckline, but on raised forecastle designs it doesn't?

[Guinness]

I straightened out the portholes and updated the picture above. Here's a comparison of the two:


I've looked at lots of pictures of (mostly) RN destroyers, and it's really hard to tell if they (and therefore that deck) curve up with the forecastle at all. Of course most of these DDs are from WW2 too, so they might not necessarily be comparable.

Here's a link to one of the best (read highest resolution) photos I could find on-line:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/46/HMS_Kelvin.JPG

Those do seem largely straight though. I think the flare of the bow, especially when seen form a 3/4 view forward, is what's throwing me off. That and never having visited in person anything but American flush-decked DDs.