NUS 1k DD leader

[Sachmle]

I'm not satisfied w/ my D-200 1k DDs so here's a new version. Will purchase the 5"/127mm abroad until a domestic can be developed.


Rio Turbio, NUS Destroyer Leader laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,089 t standard; 1,240 t normal; 1,361 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   304.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 11.50 ft (normal load)
   92.66 m / 91.44 m x 9.14 m  x 3.51 m

Armament:
      5 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 438 lbs / 198 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   3 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 20,183 shp / 15,056 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 272 tons

Complement:
   103 - 135

Cost:
   £0.170 million / $0.681 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 55 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 19 tons, 1.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 19 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 537 tons, 43.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 330 tons, 26.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 240 tons, 19.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 4.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     308 lbs / 140 Kg = 4.9 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.419
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.05 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (40 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.40 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,608 Square feet or 521 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 147 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Guinness]

Yikes! Seven (!) five inch guns.

That is, of course, the prerogative of the NUS, but if it were me, I'd carry another bank of tubes and lose a couple of those guns.

[Jefgte]

7x5"
Interresting choice for a flag leader.


Jef  ;)

[Sachmle]

Yikes! Seven (!) five inch guns.

That is, of course, the prerogative of the NUS, but if it were me, I'd carry another bank of tubes and lose a couple of those guns.

7x5"
Interresting choice for a flag leader.


Jef  ;)

Her job is to clear the way for the DDs to launch torpedoes, not launch herself. But, I could cut the "Q" and add another triple TT. Maybe make 2 versions, 1 w/ 7x5 as a DDL, and 1 w/ 6x5 and 6TT as a standard. The 6x5 would probably weigh a little less.

[Borys]

groan ... NEDS ... 5x4" is pushing it, not to mention SEVEN FIVE inch

[Sachmle]

groan ... NEDS ... 5x4" is pushing it, not to mention SEVEN FIVE inch

YAY!! I got a NEDS from Borys... woo hoo..

The midships 127s were originally 102s but someone talked me into putting 127s there.

[Borys]

IMO 3x127 is the maximum that can be achieved on such a hull.
Not that they'd be of much use ...

Also, you don't need gunboat destroyers - i.e. ships to destroy Torpedoboats. Nobody's gonna send them against you - you are too far away, with too bad seas around you. Same - even more so, applies to Maoria.
IMO you should out more TTs on that ship:
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   993 t light; 1 034 t standard; 1 139 t normal; 1 224 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   301,67 ft / 300,00 ft x 30,00 ft x 10,50 ft (normal load)
   91,95 m / 91,44 m x 9,14 m  x 3,20 m

Armament:
      4 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
   Weight of broadside 128 lbs / 58 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   6 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes - 2x3TT

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 25 439 shp / 18 977 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 1 200nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 190 tons

Complement:
   97 - 127

Cost:
   £0,145 million / $0,581 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1,4%
   Machinery: 607 tons, 53,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 310 tons, 27,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 146 tons, 12,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 5,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     296 lbs / 134 Kg = 9,2 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,45
   Metacentric height 1,6 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 10,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,422
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17,32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,05 ft / 5,81 m
      - Forecastle (15%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m (12,12 ft / 3,69 m aft of break)
      - Mid (30%):      12,12 ft / 3,69 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   12,12 ft / 3,69 m
      - Stern:      12,12 ft / 3,69 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,07 ft / 3,98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88,6%
   Waterplane Area: 5 619 Square feet or 522 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 51%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 136 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,90
      - Overall: 0,57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[Korpen]

IMO 3x127 is the maximum that can be achieved on such a hull.
Not that they'd be of much use ...

So you think most interwar destroyers were flawed and that designers in countries such as the UK, Russia, USA, Japan, Italy and France did not know what they were doing?

[Borys]

Yeah, there were lots of great destroyers of 1100 tonnes standard displacement with 4 or more guns of 4,7" or better calibre.

Borys

[Sachmle]

OK, fine. How about this then?

T-100, Naciones Unidas Large Torpedo Boat laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,034 t standard; 1,219 t normal; 1,367 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   324.58 ft / 320.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   98.93 m / 97.54 m x 9.75 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 91 lbs / 41 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   9 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 22,191 shp / 16,555 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 5,598nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 332 tons

Complement:
   103 - 134

Cost:
   £0.170 million / $0.680 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 12 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 6 tons, 0.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 631 tons, 51.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 317 tons, 26.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 219 tons, 18.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 34 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     347 lbs / 157 Kg = 10.8 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.417
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.77 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.12 ft / 4.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,369 Square feet or 592 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.46
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t WT
9t Torpedoes

[Korpen]

Yeah, there were lots of great destroyers of 1100 tonnes standard displacement with 4 or more guns of 4,7" or better calibre.

Good to see you agree...
Who can forget such fine ships as the English V & W Mod Class :
Italian Turbines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbine_class_destroyer
The Sella & Sauro classes were similar, but a bit smaller.
Weighing in at 1300 std the French Bourrasque class is marginally larger, but with the same ammount of deckspace as the NUS ship wer are talking about.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourrasque_class_destroyers
Just to pick a few :)

[Borys]

The 3x4" and 3x3TT ships looks much more probable - although I'd add a mainmast (the rear one) and some boats to the piccie. Maybe 2x3TT?

The Italian turbines are 15 years into the future? And had the lighter 2x2 arrangement ... not 7 single guns plopped down all over the place.

The Bourrasque ships - IRC also known as the Ouragan class - Poland had two, and they sucked. Short legged, top heavy. Not to mention that they were some 200 tonnes standard heavier - which is 20% larger for ships this size.
Borys

[Korpen]

The 3x4" and 3x3TT ships looks much more probable - although I'd add a mainmast (the rear one) and some boats to the piccie. Maybe 2x3TT?

Too many torpedos a too few guns.

The Italian turbines are 15 years into the future? And had the lighter 2x2 arrangement ... not 7 single guns plopped down all over the place.

Which accounts for the nine knots more speed... And a 2x2 arrangement is not significantly lighter then singles.

The Bourrasque ships - IRC also known as the Ouragan class - Poland had two, and they sucked. Short legged, top heavy. Not to mention that they were some 200 tonnes standard heavier - which is 20% larger for ships this size.

Maybe so, but i have yet seen anyone claim that the V & Ws were bad ships.
If one is building a torpedoboot with only 3 small guns, then i think a speed of 33kts is minimum. This due to the fact a lot of destroyers would outgun her quite a lot, giving the ship very poor odds in a firefight.