Dutch Destroyers, on parade!

[Korpen]

Are twin mounts on DDs ok yet? I know there are historical precedents by 1918...

If one posses the LC tech that unlock twin mounts, and one have developed a twin mount, I cannot see any reason why one would not be able to use them on DDs.

[Borys]

Are twin mounts on DDs ok yet? I know there are historical precedents by 1918...

If one posses the LC tech that unlock twin mounts, and one have developed a twin mount, I cannot see any reason why one would not be able to use them on DDs.

I can think of one - Destreoyers are NOT Light Cruisers.
IMO twin mounts for Destroyers should be added to the 2000 tonnes Destroyer tech.

Borys

[Korpen]

Are twin mounts on DDs ok yet? I know there are historical precedents by 1918...

If one posses the LC tech that unlock twin mounts, and one have developed a twin mount, I cannot see any reason why one would not be able to use them on DDs.

I can think of one - Destreoyers are NOT Light Cruisers.

Neither are battleships, but they still need the LC tech to get twin mounts.

IMO twin mounts for Destroyers should be added to the 2000 tonnes Destroyer tech.

Motivate or the comment is pointless.

[P3D]

Neither are battleships, but they still need the LC tech to get twin mounts.

Actually Rocky decided not to tie turreted secondaries to any techs, so they are fair game.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2276.45

[Borys]

Neither are battleships, but they still need the LC tech to get twin mounts.

Actually Rocky decided not to tie turreted secondaries to any techs, so they are fair game.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2276.45

OK - so what about twin mount&hoist mounts on destroyers?
I'd like a ruling on this - such guns did not make an appearance - I believe - until the late 20s?


AFAIK the heaviest WWI era armament (discountig the waste of steel called the S113) was carried by:
- the V&W ships 4x12cm - but the smallest of these ships are credited with 1100 tonnes (light? standard?), and most with displacement of around 1500-1600 (standard? full load?); and torpedo armament was not particularly large;
- one of the Black Sea fleet Novik variants (Orfeii?) - with 5x1x4" - at the cost of part of torpedo armament; this of course was a c.1500 tonnes ship.

Or - as suggested in a previous thread on this subject, should I accept that in Nverse "destroyers are slower and heavier gunned than in OTL"?

Borys

[Korpen]

Neither are battleships, but they still need the LC tech to get twin mounts.

Actually Rocky decided not to tie turreted secondaries to any techs, so they are fair game.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2276.45

OK - so what about twin mount&hoist mounts on destroyers?
I'd like a ruling on this - such guns did not make an appearance - I believe - until the late 20s?

Have not looked around much, but at least the italian started with it in 1920.
As for hoists, that is what the rules say one got to have (if no hoists, 10x12cm guns)

AFAIK the heaviest WWI era armament (discountig the waste of steel called the S113) was carried by:
- the V&W ships 4x12cm - but the smallest of these ships are credited with 1100 tonnes (light? standard?), and most with displacement of around 1500-1600 (standard? full load?); and torpedo armament was not particularly large;
- one of the Black Sea fleet Novik variants (Orfeii?) - with 5x1x4" - at the cost of part of torpedo armament; this of cou

Think the Marasti class destroyer take the price with 5x15cm guns.

Or - as suggested in a previous thread on this subject, should I accept that in Nverse "destroyers are slower and heavier gunned than in OTL"?

I think so, after all the players must have some freedom in what things they what to prioritise on their ships. Some like to put much more armour on their BBs the was done in IRL, some like to loads of torpedoes on their ships and some lie to but the largest guns on theirs.

Navalism is having it own evolutionary trends, one such is that there are more heavily armed small crafts, another is more heavily armoured battleships.

[Borys]

Marasti - 1400 standard - that's what - 1200 light? 1300?
Not the 1000 light we're discussing.

According to Wiki - started off with 3x1x6", 4x1x3" (talk about overgunned), and ended up with 5x12cm (2x2x4,7", 1x1x4,7").

Borys

[Korpen]

Marasti - 1400 standard - that's what - 1200 light? 1300?
Not the 1000 light we're discussing.

But it have less deckspace then the ships we are discussing (and when talking a NEDS, that is what matter more then weight).
Also that fact that her engine is at least 300 ton heavier...

But mainly mentioned her as the most heavily armed DD.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Very nice Korpen !

[Korpen]

Refitting the last nine E-boots in 1913/2, and looking to increas their firepower a bit.
So do people think it is worth to remove the two 88s and replace them with 12cm guns?
The cost increase is pretty minor (0,026€ and 0,013 BP per ship) and would put the cost for the refit at 0,246€ per ship (2,21€ for entire class).
Another major advantage of the 12cm guns would be standardisation, as they are the by far most used guns in the navy (360 in service or on ships under construction).

E-Class, Nederländerna Torpedbåt laid down 1902 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   697 t light; 721 t standard; 810 t normal; 881 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   229,66 ft / 229,66 ft x 26,25 ft x 10,50 ft (normal load)
   70,00 m / 70,00 m x 8,00 m  x 3,20 m

Armament:
      1 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 46,30lbs / 21,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward, 1 raised gun
      2 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 46,30lbs / 21,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount
      4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1902 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 139 lbs / 63 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14 750 shp / 11 004 Kw = 27,42 kts
   Range 2 300nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 160 tons

Complement:
   75 - 98

Cost:
   £0,104 million / $0,416 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 20 tons, 2,4 %
   Armour: 1 tons, 0,1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 450 tons, 55,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 221 tons, 27,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 113 tons, 14,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 0,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     204 lbs / 93 Kg = 3,9 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,51
   Metacentric height 1,4 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 9,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,448
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,67 ft / 5,08 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (53 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (8,20 ft / 2,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
      - Stern:      8,20 ft / 2,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,57 ft / 3,83 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 197,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 81,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 839 Square feet or 357 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 34 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 3,41
      - Overall: 0,60
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[Guinness]

With no fire control, there's not that much advantage to replacing the 88's, except standardization. On just the standardization grounds, it's probably still worth it though.

It would be my impulse to strip the 88s and only add one 14cm, and instead mount a pair of some sort of large machine guns or quick firing guns.