GUJARAT-Class All Diesel-propulsion

[ledeper]

GUJARAT-Class, Baltic Confederation    BCC  laid down late 1914

Displacement:
   19.924 t light; 20.974 t standard; 22.600 t normal; 23.901 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   588,39 ft / 583,99 ft x 88,58 ft x 28,87 ft (normal load)
   179,34 m / 178,00 m x 27,00 m  x 8,80 m

Armament:
      9 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      10 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9.481 lbs / 4.301 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   379,59 ft / 115,70 m   11,29 ft / 3,44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   379,59 ft / 115,70 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 79.391 shp / 59.225 Kw = 27,30 kts
   Range 6.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.926 tons

Complement:
   921 - 1.198

Cost:
   £2,699 million / $10,798 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.185 tons, 5,2 %
   Armour: 6.705 tons, 29,7 %
      - Belts: 2.388 tons, 10,6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.524 tons, 6,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.621 tons, 11,6 %
      - Conning Tower: 172 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 3.058 tons, 13,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.526 tons, 37,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.676 tons, 11,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25.961 lbs / 11.776 Kg = 30,0 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 5,0 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 16,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,93 ft / 7,60 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,10 ft / 6,13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 35.421 Square feet or 3.291 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 811 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,84
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
         Misc Weight:
F.C. 250t
W/t 50t
Radar", listening dishes, 50t
Reserve:100t

[Jefgte]

Heavy deck armour for 1914...

You could have certainly:
"Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily"

Increase
" Length to Beam Ratio: 6,59 : 1"

"Natural speed' for length: 24,17 kts"

& better "Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,09"


Jef  ;)

[ledeper]

It is a new philosophy by the BC that the upper belt and armor deck is at the same thickness  ;D

[Korpen]

Heavy deck armour for 1914...

But needed if separated into more then one deck.

You could have certainly:
"Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily"

Not something is it worth sacrifying other capabillities for, as the ship is a fine seaboat and very far from an unsteady gunnery platform.

[P3D]

What's the argument for the 5" tertiary?

[ledeper]

The reason for upgrade tertiary guns to 5"Quick firing  is the wish to create a higher hitting power against destroyers and Tbs
The 6"Quick firing  is primarily against Lcs .
This version is also shorter and deeper and also build-able in a type 2 dock/slip,the idea is to build these ships in the colonies,thus name ship will be laid down in Gujarat in Jul 14


GUJARAT-Class, Baltic Confederation   BCC laid down 1914

Displacement:
   17.840 t light; 18.829 t standard; 20.900 t normal; 22.557 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   556,06 ft / 551,18 ft x 78,74 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   169,49 m / 168,00 m x 24,00 m  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      9 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      10 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9.114 lbs / 4.134 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   358,27 ft / 109,20 m   10,65 ft / 3,25 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   358,27 ft / 109,20 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 66.640 shp / 49.714 Kw = 26,25 kts
   Range 7.500nm at 15,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.727 tons

Complement:
   868 - 1.129

Cost:
   £2,470 million / $9,880 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.139 tons, 5,5 %
   Armour: 6.189 tons, 29,6 %
      - Belts: 2.146 tons, 10,3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.561 tons, 7,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.286 tons, 10,9 %
      - Conning Tower: 196 tons, 0,9 %
   Machinery: 2.567 tons, 12,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.495 tons, 35,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.060 tons, 14,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22.575 lbs / 10.240 Kg = 26,1 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,01
   Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 17,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,87
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,571
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,44 ft / 5,01 m
      - Stern:      16,44 ft / 5,01 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,91 ft / 5,76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 30.886 Square feet or 2.869 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 787 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,88
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
F.C. 250t
W/t 50t
Radar", listening dishes, 50t
Reserve:100t

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd recommend going with either a 6" or a 5" battery, but not both.  Given the reputation of the Baltic as having poor visibility, I'd go with more numerous 5" guns that will work against destroyers and torpedo-boats, and still make a mess of light cruisers close enough to be a threat.

I think this version of the design suffers from the reduced tonnage - stablity and seakeeping are only marginal.  The previous version is not that much larger, and certainly outperforms this one.

[ledeper]

GUJARAT-Class, Baltic Confederation    BCC  laid down 1914

Displacement:
   18.168 t light; 19.150 t standard; 20.686 t normal; 21.915 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   561,79 ft / 557,74 ft x 82,02 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   171,23 m / 170,00 m x 25,00 m  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      9 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9.080 lbs / 4.119 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   10,87 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,25" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 67.745 shp / 50.538 Kw = 26,50 kts
   Range 6.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.765 tons

Complement:
   862 - 1.121

Cost:
   £2,488 million / $9,951 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.135 tons, 5,5 %
   Armour: 6.282 tons, 30,4 %
      - Belts: 2.207 tons, 10,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.581 tons, 7,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.332 tons, 11,3 %
      - Conning Tower: 162 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 2.610 tons, 12,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.691 tons, 37,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.518 tons, 12,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22.309 lbs / 10.119 Kg = 25,8 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,02
   Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 17,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,536
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Stern:      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,92 ft / 5,77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 31.511 Square feet or 2.927 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 800 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,89
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[P3D]

IMO the 'deck = upper belt' policy is a complete nonsense. The upper belt would be vulnerable to anything above 7.5", while the deck is overkill against any guns smaller than 16" - i.e. a waste of tonnage, as hits outside the citadel could as easily kick the ship out of combat.

[ledeper]

GUJARAT-Class, Baltic Confederation    BCC  laid down 1914

Displacement:
   17.852 t light; 18.984 t standard; 20.400 t normal; 21.533 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557,92 ft / 554,46 ft x 82,02 ft x 28,71 ft (normal load)
   170,05 m / 169,00 m x 25,00 m  x 8,75 m

Armament:
      9 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 8.534 lbs / 3.871 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   360,40 ft / 109,85 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   4,92" / 125 mm   360,40 ft / 109,85 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   4,92" / 125 mm      9,84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 73.053 shp / 54.497 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.549 tons

Complement:
   853 - 1.109

Cost:
   £2,437 million / $9,748 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.067 tons, 5,2 %
   Armour: 5.708 tons, 28,0 %
      - Belts: 2.285 tons, 11,2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.536 tons, 7,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1.729 tons, 8,5 %
      - Conning Tower: 158 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 2.814 tons, 13,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.813 tons, 38,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.548 tons, 12,5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22.120 lbs / 10.034 Kg = 25,6 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04
   Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 17,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,547
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,61 ft / 5,98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 31.646 Square feet or 2.940 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 811 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,95
      - Overall: 1,02
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent