Habsburgs - 1914 programme battleships

Borys · June 27, 2008, 03:50:01 AM

Ahoj!
Design 1914-13-3-12

Carries the new 13,5"/45/1500 lbs guns. A-Q-X arragement.
By this time I should have type 3 slips and docks :)

Habsburger Schlachtschiff laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   28 101 t light; 29 931 t standard; 31 535 t normal; 32 818 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   640,00 ft / 640,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 29,23 ft (normal load)
   195,07 m / 195,07 m x 30,48 m x 8,91 m

Armament:
12 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1 500,00lbs / 680,39kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 19 362 lbs / 8 783 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   370,00 ft / 112,78 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   270,00 ft / 82,30 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
     Main Belt covers 89% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   48,00 ft / 14,63 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm     -         2,00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13,00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 41 980 shp / 31 317 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 887 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
   1 183 - 1 538

Cost:
   £3,735 million / $14,940 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 028 tons, 6,4%
   Armour: 11 670 tons, 37,0%
     - Belts: 5 714 tons, 18,1%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 932 tons, 3,0%
     - Armament: 2 170 tons, 6,9%
     - Armour Deck: 2 574 tons, 8,2%
     - Conning Tower: 280 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1 770 tons, 5,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12 233 tons, 38,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 434 tons, 10,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41 535 lbs / 18 840 Kg = 33,8 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 7,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,80
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,590
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      27,00 ft / 8,23 m
     - Forecastle (20%):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m
     - Mid (50%):      18,00 ft / 5,49 m
     - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
     - Stern:      18,00 ft / 5,49 m
     - Average freeboard:   19,53 ft / 5,95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,6%
   Waterplane Area: 46 373 Square feet or 4 308 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 194 lbs/sq ft or 949 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,51
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Korpen · June 27, 2008, 03:57:48 AM

Quote from: Borys on June 27, 2008, 03:50:01 AM
Ahoj!
Main Belt covers 84% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

Might be a good idea to fix? :)

Borys · June 27, 2008, 04:01:09 AM

Design 1914-15-4-8

Displacement:
   28 156 t light; 29 857 t standard; 31 458 t normal; 32 739 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   625,00 ft / 625,00 ft x 102,00 ft x 28,50 ft (normal load)
   190,50 m / 190,50 m x 31,09 m x 8,69 m

Armament:
8 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2 000,00lbs / 907,18kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17 308 lbs / 7 851 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   275,00 ft / 83,82 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
     Main Belt covers 86% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   46,00 ft / 14,02 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm     -         2,00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13,00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42 691 shp / 31 847 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 881 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
   1 180 - 1 535

Cost:
   £3,567 million / $14,267 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 863 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 12 018 tons, 38,2%
     - Belts: 5 568 tons, 17,7%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 894 tons, 2,8%
     - Armament: 2 674 tons, 8,5%
     - Armour Deck: 2 602 tons, 8,3%
     - Conning Tower: 279 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1 800 tons, 5,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12 074 tons, 38,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 302 tons, 10,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42 805 lbs / 19 416 Kg = 25,4 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 7,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,1 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 17,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,606
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      27,83 ft / 8,48 m
     - Forecastle (20%):   17,71 ft / 5,40 m
     - Mid (50%):      17,71 ft / 5,40 m
     - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,71 ft / 5,40 m
     - Stern:      17,71 ft / 5,40 m
     - Average freeboard:   18,52 ft / 5,64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134,0%
   Waterplane Area: 46 888 Square feet or 4 356 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 950 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,39
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Borys · June 27, 2008, 04:06:03 AM

Quote from: Korpen on June 27, 2008, 03:57:48 AM
Quote from: Borys on June 27, 2008, 03:50:01 AM
Ahoj!
Main Belt covers 84% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
Might be a good idea to fix? :)

Thank you, fixed.
Borys

Sachmle · June 27, 2008, 05:14:01 AM

Oh thank God, you scrapped that horrible Quad thing. Did I ever mention that I HATE quad turrets?

Borys · June 27, 2008, 05:21:25 AM

Ahoj!
No, you never mentioned that.
What else will I discover about you, after so many YEARS together!
:)

Personally, I detest triples :D
Well, from my 13,5" twins I can progress either to 15" twins, or 13,4" quads. The 15" quad I'm designing is for the future - as that would call for a 35K tonnes hull.
I will skip 16" guns, so the 15" quad could be useful.

I agree that quads are not exatly pretty.
The 4x2x15" ship is a big change for the KKK - superfiring turrets for the first time. The 3x4x13'5 is more "traditional".

I will see what the future brings before deciding on either.
Borys

Sachmle · June 27, 2008, 05:24:56 AM

I suppose I'm just a Classicalist. My all-time fav is the British 15"/42 mark I in twin turrets ala QE. If the quad weren't so damned ugly I may thing more highly of them. Plus the only times they were used was on those 2 French abortions of BBs Richeleau and Dunkerque, and unfortunately the KGV's

I'd build a 15" version of Agincourt before I'd build a 3x3 or anything w/ quads.

Borys · June 27, 2008, 02:46:18 PM

Something like this?
Habsburgs Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   44 066 t light; 47 046 t standard; 49 189 t normal; 50 903 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,08 ft / 720,00 ft x 120,00 ft x 30,75 ft (normal load)
   219,79 m / 219,46 m x 36,58 m x 9,37 m

Armament:
14 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (7x2 guns), 2 000,00lbs / 907,18kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 29 654 lbs / 13 451 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   220,00 ft / 67,06 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   9,50 ft / 2,90 m
     Main Belt covers 107% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,75" / 44 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   50,00 ft / 15,24 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   7,00" / 178 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm     -         1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 3,25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 16,00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 55 305 shp / 41 257 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 857 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   1 650 - 2 146

Cost:
   £7,384 million / $29,535 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 176 tons, 6,5%
   Armour: 19 754 tons, 40,2%
     - Belts: 8 394 tons, 17,1%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 619 tons, 3,3%
     - Armament: 5 306 tons, 10,8%
     - Armour Deck: 3 972 tons, 8,1%
     - Conning Tower: 463 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 2 159 tons, 4,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18 528 tons, 37,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5 122 tons, 10,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 0,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     66 850 lbs / 30 323 Kg = 39,6 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 12,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 7,9 ft / 2,4 m
   Roll period: 18,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,64
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,648
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      31,00 ft / 9,45 m
     - Forecastle (16%):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
     - Mid (50%):      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
     - Quarterdeck (13%):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
     - Stern:      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
     - Average freeboard:   20,44 ft / 6,23 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150,4%
   Waterplane Area: 66 066 Square feet or 6 138 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1 071 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,20
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

ledeper · June 27, 2008, 03:28:37 PM

Even though I know you detest triple-turrets,how about this little modest vessel? ;D

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   40.491 t light; 43.075 t standard; 45.500 t normal; 47.440 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,48 ft / 716,86 ft x 114,83 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   219,91 m / 218,50 m x 35,00 m x 9,00 m

Armament:
15 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (5x3 guns), 1.687,50lbs / 765,44kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
20 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 27.040 lbs / 12.265 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   465,96 ft / 142,02 m   12,86 ft / 3,92 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   465,96 ft / 142,02 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   465,96 ft / 142,02 m   28,28 ft / 8,62 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   2,00" / 51 mm        -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 5,00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79.443 shp / 59.264 Kw = 24,50 kts
   Range 6.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.365 tons

Complement:
   1.556 - 2.024

Cost:
   £7,643 million / $30,573 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3.380 tons, 7,4 %
   Armour: 15.787 tons, 34,7 %
     - Belts: 4.516 tons, 9,9 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 975 tons, 2,1 %
     - Armament: 4.051 tons, 8,9 %
     - Armour Deck: 5.861 tons, 12,9 %
     - Conning Tower: 384 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 2.960 tons, 6,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 17.864 tons, 39,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.009 tons, 11,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     54.159 lbs / 24.566 Kg = 32,1 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 8,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 8,0 ft / 2,4 m
   Roll period: 17,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,58
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,655
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,24 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,77 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26,18 ft / 7,98 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   18,73 ft / 5,71 m
     - Mid (50 %):      18,73 ft / 5,71 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18,73 ft / 5,71 m
     - Stern:      18,73 ft / 5,71 m
     - Average freeboard:   19,33 ft / 5,89 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 63.360 Square feet or 5.886 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 221 lbs/sq ft or 1.079 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,14
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Jefgte · June 27, 2008, 04:21:14 PM

Borys,

On your 44000T BB, ala Agincourt.

I am not sure that 219m are enough to instal 7x15" turret on the centerline...

Add 27m to QE & install 3x15" turret in this space ???

Jef ;)

P3D · June 27, 2008, 04:39:50 PM

220m is 15m longer than the Fuso/Ise classes with 6x 14"/45 turrets.

Borys · June 27, 2008, 11:26:04 PM

Ahoj!
The 7x2x15" was a gift to Sachmle.
If length is an issue, then I could cram the turrets together, with two pyamids fore and aft. Thursday would be lonely amidships.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/haguro01.jpg

Or I could fiddle around with the design and retain the Agincourt arrangament - but make Wednesday superfiring over Thursday - that should save a couple of metres.

Borys