CSA Fast BB Proposal

[P3D]

The deck arrangement still needs some fiddling. The aft turret can fire like 20-30* forward (too close superstructure). Similarly, the two foremost deck-mounted guns interfere with the main gun firing arcs.
One less funnel should suffice for 48000SHP and oil firing,

[Valles]

Honestly, I think she's a pretty bad idea. She's too fast to operate comfortably with the Oklahoma class, let alone older BBs, too slow to keep up with any of the modern cruiser types, and under protected for her armament and nominal weight class. Also, her layout would give her the same vulnerability to battle damage that IIRC New Swiss cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships demonstrated in the Pacific War.

As an experimental design sketch, though, and a demonstration of why her shown traits are not ideal, she's pretty keen. ^_^

[Guinness]

Honestly, I think she's a pretty bad idea. She's too fast to operate comfortably with the Oklahoma class, let alone older BBs, too slow to keep up with any of the modern cruiser types, and under protected for her armament and nominal weight class. Also, her layout would give her the same vulnerability to battle damage that IIRC New Swiss cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships demonstrated in the Pacific War.

As an experimental design sketch, though, and a demonstration of why her shown traits are not ideal, she's pretty keen. ^_^

Yeah, I agree. She was more or less an exercise in how much speed I could get out of a capital ship with 1910 engine tech.

Now I'm working on a 15" armed design to be layed down in 1913, with 1912 engine tech. It's a different beast altogether :)

But that's not quite ready to share.

[Valles]

Yeah, I agree. She was more or less an exercise in how much speed I could get out of a capital ship with 1910 engine tech.

Now I'm working on a 15" armed design to be layed down in 1913, with 1912 engine tech. It's a different beast altogether Smiley

But that's not quite ready to share.

Phew. For a moment there I was afraid that I was going to be the only person left here who wasn't a card-carrying member of the Battlecruiser Fan Club. ^_^

And I'll very much look forward to seeing your design for a 15" battleship; not least because I plan to build pretty much my entire future battleline around a licensed clone of the Confederate 15" gun. I just can't get my own original turret designs to look remotely 'right', so having exactly the right one to steal will be very helpful with regards to verisimilitude.

[Desertfox]

Phew. For a moment there I was afraid that I was going to be the only person left here who wasn't a card-carrying member of the Battlecruiser Fan Club. ^_^

Heretic! Infidel! Gentile! Repent and sin no more! Or ye shall perish for your sins! ;D

Also, her layout would give her the same vulnerability to battle damage that IIRC New Swiss cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships demonstrated in the Pacific War.

What would that be? Just curious.

[Guinness]

Yeah, I agree. She was more or less an exercise in how much speed I could get out of a capital ship with 1910 engine tech.

Now I'm working on a 15" armed design to be layed down in 1913, with 1912 engine tech. It's a different beast altogether Smiley

But that's not quite ready to share.

Phew. For a moment there I was afraid that I was going to be the only person left here who wasn't a card-carrying member of the Battlecruiser Fan Club. ^_^

And I'll very much look forward to seeing your design for a 15" battleship; not least because I plan to build pretty much my entire future battleline around a licensed clone of the Confederate 15" gun. I just can't get my own original turret designs to look remotely 'right', so having exactly the right one to steal will be very helpful with regards to verisimilitude.

I'm here to serve. Got to go to work in the morning, and my wife and baby/toddler will be home Tuesday afternoon, so my slice of time available for navalism will go down quite a bit here.

Maybe I can get through the whole week with no work crises, which would give me a little bit of extra time though.

I might have a 15" 1913 battlewhatsit with illustration by the end of the week.

BTW: the turrets on this illustration took me about 6 hours plus some research time to get right, but it was worth it, if only for reuse.

[Blooded]

Hello,

Welcome to the Americas Guinness. I hope we can work out some issues I was having with Carthaginian (namely his claims that he was to decrease the size of his active army along our mutual border several times and then never doing it... forcing me to build up my meager forces).

One problem I have noticed is that though it was listed as available in 1908, the 13.5"/45 cal gun was never researched( I have checked back to 1906). It had been brought up before I believe but was never altered. Cutting edge guns was not researched until 1909 or so(from Rohan) whereupon he started the 15"/40.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Blooded is usually dead-on - he's the most astute of Budget readers :)
So if he says you didn't research that gun, then 99% you didn't.
:D
But in  2/1913 you'll be able to buy 13,5"/1500 lbs guns from the friendly, peace loving Habsburgs.
However, at that same date you'll have the 15"/2000lbs/twins.

Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

Y'all shouldn't be so quick to write this off.  CSA had long-standing distrust of New Switzerland, which operates large, fast capital ships and has conducted extensive commerce raiding in recent wars.  This fast BB would address Swiss raiders nicely.

Gran Colombia's fielding three armored cruisers which, given the crappy state of relations between GC and CSA, might find themselves scouting for the GC battle fleet or conducting raids agaisnt Confederate targets at some point in the future.  This fast BB would be a useful counter to those ships.

[Guinness]

If CSA never researched the 13.5", then I'm left wondering what to do with the 4 ships equipped with it that are already in the water, or the 3 more building.

I might need a mod ruling here. I'll go back through the reports and try to figure out where it came from.

But it is true that the next design will likely have the 15"L40 instead.

[Guinness]

Y'all shouldn't be so quick to write this off.  CSA had long-standing distrust of New Switzerland, which operates large, fast capital ships and has conducted extensive commerce raiding in recent wars.  This fast BB would address Swiss raiders nicely.

Gran Colombia's fielding three armored cruisers which, given the crappy state of relations between GC and CSA, might find themselves scouting for the GC battle fleet or conducting raids agaisnt Confederate targets at some point in the future.  This fast BB would be a useful counter to those ships.

Yeah, but I wouldn't want to trigger a BC building race with the Gran Colombians that I'll likely lose :)

[The Rock Doctor]

Shell-weight indicates the battleships in service (Virginia, Neuvo Leons) are using the 13.5/40, which exists. 

The design for the three battleships under construction (Oklahomas) indicates they were to be fitted with 13.5/45 - but since they don't seem to have been researched (unless secretly - Maddox?  Ithekro?  He wouldn't have told me) I'd suggest assuming they're fitted with 13.5/40 instead. 

You could re-sim the design with 1250 lb shells instead of 1500 lb shells, otherwise leaving everything the same, and the net effects on the hull would be marginal - certainly nothing worth extra expense or building time.

[Blooded]

Hello,

Recently, when the UNK recieved the next Naval Shell Tech(Capped), I increased the shell size of it's 13.4" Guns to 1400 lbs from 1250 lbs. The guns were of French design and I believe 45 cal., I have just been using the 13.5" data from the real-life UK designs(CSA seemed to be using RL UK guns as well- for awhile at least). I think CSA recently received the Shell tech as well, this could account for the shell size increase.

When I took the helm in 2H1908 I immediately started the research on the 'new' 14"/45(RL UK design -"agincourt" I think)- Earl had not researched any guns in N3 yet.

I think the new ship design is a good one. CSA loved small/cheap ships it would have fit nicely. They can out shoot any Predred or cruiser easily and should be able to choose battle with the early dreds.

[Guinness]

Shell-weight indicates the battleships in service (Virginia, Neuvo Leons) are using the 13.5/40, which exists. 

The design for the three battleships under construction (Oklahomas) indicates they were to be fitted with 13.5/45 - but since they don't seem to have been researched (unless secretly - Maddox?  Ithekro?  He wouldn't have told me) I'd suggest assuming they're fitted with 13.5/40 instead. 

You could re-sim the design with 1250 lb shells instead of 1500 lb shells, otherwise leaving everything the same, and the net effects on the hull would be marginal - certainly nothing worth extra expense or building time.

Ok, unless someone crawls out of the woodwork and tell's me where I got the 13.5L45, I'll re-sim Oklahoma with the 13.5L45, which is fine. I'm sure I can do that in such a way that the weights would only change within the main turret/barbette complex, incurring minimal or any cost of production changes.

Oh, and Blooded:

When I took the helm in 2H1908 I immediately started the research on the 'new' 14"/45(RL UK design -"agincourt" I think)- Earl had not researched any guns in N3 yet.

Actually, Agincourt was 7x2 12"L50's (IIRC). I believe it was HMS Canada that had the Armstrong 14" guns. Originally ordered by Turkey (again IIRC). You'll have to forgive me for not remembering either ships Turkish name, or the name by which Agincourt was orderd by the Brazilians.

[Korpen]

You could re-sim the design with 1250 lb shells instead of 1500 lb shells, otherwise leaving everything the same, and the net effects on the hull would be marginal - certainly nothing worth extra expense or building time.

I got the impression that Carthaginian intended to simply introduce new shells, so using 680kg shells in the L/40 gun on the new ships (so lowering muzzle velocity). I do not really see any problem with that as the power of the gun does not change, and the problems with associated equipment (such as hoists) is non-existent on a ship designed for the heavier shells.