Battleship Paradox

[Valles]

Paradox, Maori Battleship laid down 1912 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   18,496 t light; 19,342 t standard; 20,759 t normal; 21,892 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   497.70 ft / 492.13 ft x 88.58 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
   151.70 m / 150.00 m x 27.00 m  x 8.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 11.81" / 300 mm guns (4x2 guns), 823.82lbs / 373.68kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7,569 lbs / 3,433 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   344.49 ft / 105.00 m   11.29 ft / 3.44 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   147.61 ft / 44.99 m   11.29 ft / 3.44 m
   Upper:   1.97" / 50 mm   344.49 ft / 105.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   344.49 ft / 105.00 m   25.07 ft / 7.64 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      13.8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.35" / 85 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 25,053 shp / 18,689 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,550 tons

Complement:
   864 - 1,124

Cost:
   £1.602 million / $6.406 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 946 tons, 4.6 %
   Armour: 8,349 tons, 40.2 %
      - Belts: 2,825 tons, 13.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 2,758 tons, 13.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,039 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 224 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 1,139 tons, 5.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,762 tons, 37.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,263 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     40,839 lbs / 18,524 Kg = 49.6 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 7.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.77

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.635
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Stern:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.16 ft / 7.06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,938 Square feet or 3,060 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 806 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 2.40
      - Overall: 1.02
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

250 tons Battleship Fire Control
25 tons Long-Range Wireless
25 tons Ship's Boats

[The Rock Doctor]

You have a bit of extra hull strength - perhaps increase miscellaneous weight to allow for flag facilities and a weight reserve?

[Valles]

Something like this?

Paradox, Maori Battleship laid down 1912 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   18,496 t light; 19,342 t standard; 20,759 t normal; 21,892 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   497.70 ft / 492.13 ft x 88.58 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
   151.70 m / 150.00 m x 27.00 m  x 8.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 11.81" / 300 mm guns (4x2 guns), 823.82lbs / 373.68kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7,569 lbs / 3,433 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   344.49 ft / 105.00 m   11.29 ft / 3.44 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   147.61 ft / 44.99 m   11.29 ft / 3.44 m
   Upper:   1.97" / 50 mm   344.49 ft / 105.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   344.49 ft / 105.00 m   25.07 ft / 7.64 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      13.8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.35" / 85 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 25,053 shp / 18,689 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,550 tons

Complement:
   864 - 1,124

Cost:
   £1.602 million / $6.406 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 946 tons, 4.6 %
   Armour: 8,349 tons, 40.2 %
      - Belts: 2,825 tons, 13.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 2,758 tons, 13.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,039 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 224 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 1,139 tons, 5.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,562 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,263 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,980 lbs / 18,135 Kg = 48.5 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 7.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.77

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.635
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 34
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Stern:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.16 ft / 7.06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,938 Square feet or 3,060 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 785 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

250 tons Battleship Fire Control
25 tons Long-Range Wireless
25 tons Ship's Boats
50 tons Flag Facilities
150 tons Weight Reserve

[The Rock Doctor]

Yes, indeed.  I usually enter a "target" miscellaneous weight when I design the ship, and once I'm done everything else, adjust it to get every extra ton that I can.

[Valles]

*nodnod* Makes sense. I had been planning to carry that 'reserve' as part of the composite strength, by getting cross-sectional strength to 1.00 and letting that be the determinant of what was 'balanced'... but with the XS strength as low as Paradox's, that really isn't practical.

[The Rock Doctor]

That could work, but I like being able to quantify how exactly much stuff I can add.

[Sachmle]

There are 3 main principles in battleship design
1) Armament.
2) Armor
3) Speed.

1) 30cm is light to the extreme for a BB anymore. I'm still using 12" and they're undergunned.

2) 35cm belt is nice, but the 50mm upper is almost useless. Even DD shells can penetrate it if they get close enough an cruisers will shred it. With the hull casemates directly above it with no hoist armor a good shot through that belt should detonate in the powder room for the 15cm guns making quite a mess and a nice fire. The TDS is very nice, 7.4 torps is pretty good IMHO, but with the A turret so close to the beam on the drawing I know where I'd aim a torpedo.  ;)

3) 20kts is rapidly going to be to slow, even for countries that don't put a premium on speed.

[Valles]

1.) Refer to my post on Maori fleet doctrine re: a battleship's role to better understand why heavy gun armament isn't a priority. Also, given the desire to lay her down in a timely fashion and the lack of any heavier gun being available any sooner than two years in the future, there really wasn't much choice about it.

2.) I'm aware that the upper and end belts are probably inadequate... but think of her as a sort of 'proto-AON' design and it makes more sense.

3.) 20 kts is the established fleet speed.

[Korpen]

1.) Refer to my post on Maori fleet doctrine re: a battleship's role to better understand why heavy gun armament isn't a priority. Also, given the desire to lay her down in a timely fashion and the lack of any heavier gun being available any sooner than two years in the future, there really wasn't much choice about it.

2.) I'm aware that the upper and end belts are probably inadequate... but think of her as a sort of 'proto-AON' design and it makes more sense.

3.) 20 kts is the established fleet speed.

1: You know that it would be possible to buy guns from abroad, and it is quite likely that such an solution would be cheaper then researching a  gun tech and develop a gun and mounts of your own.

2: I can see you point. Something to keep in mind; with your relative weak main battery, you really want to fight at a shorter distance, and at least then 8km-10km secondaries from BBs start to come into the picture. Without knowing, I get an impression that the weather conditions in the pacific around Maori can be compared to the north Atlantic, so low visibility conditions can be expected for that reason as well. Then some more protected are would be nice, as the height of the ship makes her a very big target. I think that the combination of relative low speed and large unprotected areas might be dangerous the functioning of the ship. If accepting this line of thought; I also think that considering her very high profile, it is more important to make the upper belt larger rather then thicker, as 5cm is enough to keep damage from light and medium HE outside the hull, and APC and SAP have far smaller payloads.

[Valles]

1.) Paradox is 'already' laid down in 1912, but if you know somebody willing to part with a license for 350mm wire-wrapped guns, I'd be most interested. ^_^

2.) Hm. Hmmmm.

[Carthaginian]

I know someone that would be able to part with those guns...
In fact, if Maoria will check the pouch from the CSA, the plans are in there.

[Korpen]

1.) Paradox is 'already' laid down in 1912, but if you know somebody willing to part with a license for 350mm wire-wrapped guns, I'd be most interested. ^_^

Well the Netherlands is always willing to sell guns, and have a nice 35cm/L45 gun for sale. :)
Drawings and licence is less likely to be for sale however, but do you really want to invest in that for only eight guns (and unless I am wrong maoria does not have the gun tech for it anyway)?

[Valles]

I'm in the process of correcting the 'technology' thing, and there will certainly be other battleships in the future, when the current ones wear out or become obsolete. My interest in 35cm pieces in particular is that they fit the pattern established by Maoria's existing 15, 25, and 30 centimeter guns, which appeals greatly to my inner obsessive compulsive.

[Korpen]

I'm in the process of correcting the 'technology' thing, and there will certainly be other battleships in the future, when the current ones wear out or become obsolete. My interest in 35cm pieces in particular is that they fit the pattern established by Maoria's existing 15, 25, and 30 centimeter guns, which appeals greatly to my inner obsessive compulsive.

Well, it is at least a year (1913) untill you have the tech yourself, and then one or two more years before a gun is developed, so at best you would get your own 35cm gun in 1915.
Buying guns now would allow you to build a ship with such guns NOW, rather then in two-three years. :)
The Dutch 35cm guns are among the most powerful in its class as well.

[Ithekro]

The Germans held on to the 11" and 12" guns for a while longer than the British did and still did fine with them.  Sure they upgunned to the 15" but that was rather late...roughly when the Maori would be getting their new guns.

While imports might make things more expedient, it may also make you reliant and thus force your hand in rough international disputes.  Rohan has had problems with this in the past (Swiss specific).  That isn't to say that allies are bad, just that having allies that suddenly turn into each other's enemies can be bad.