1912 Habsburg battleship

[Borys]

With the completion of the rearming of te Heer, the KKK can get back to expansion.
This is a planed followup for the Juan de Austria class, with the folowing incrimental changes:
- new generation powerplant, with some oil sprinkling;
- all centerline arrangement - A-Q-X-Z;
- two AA guns;
- Secondary Battery casemattes brought to Main Deck level, due to space freed by centerline arrangement of Main battery;
- new 20 inch torpedos;
- customary 400 tonnes allocated to FC, w/t and whatnots;


ersatz Sobieski
Habsburgs Schlachtiff
1912

Displacement:
   23 087 t light; 24 308 t standard; 25 558 t normal; 26 559 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540,00 ft / 540,00 ft x 99,00 ft x 29,00 ft (normal load)
   164,59 m / 164,59 m x 30,18 m  x 8,84 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
      8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 11 227 lbs / 5 093 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   190,00 ft / 57,91 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   45,00 ft / 13,72 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   3rd:   6,00" / 152 mm         -         2,00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11,00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 39 203 shp / 29 246 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 250 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   1 009 - 1 313

Cost:
   £2,219 million / $8,875 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 396 tons, 5,5%
   Armour: 10 140 tons, 39,7%
      - Belts: 4 575 tons, 17,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 874 tons, 3,4%
      - Armament: 2 362 tons, 9,2%
      - Armour Deck: 2 124 tons, 8,3%
      - Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 1 702 tons, 6,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 448 tons, 37,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 472 tons, 9,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35 974 lbs / 16 318 Kg = 29,2 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 6,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 5,9 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,577
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,00 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   22,00 ft / 6,71 m
      - Mid (50%):      22,00 ft / 6,71 m (16,00 ft / 4,88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Stern:      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,32 ft / 5,89 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135,6%
   Waterplane Area: 38 267 Square feet or 3 555 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 182 lbs/sq ft or 886 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,95
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

Hurray for expansion!

It'll fit in nicely with the Juan de Austria class, and seems a logical progression from them.

Wasn't there a Hapsburger BB building in Russia?  Or did that end up being Japanese-built Siligia?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Thanks - I did try for a progression. I even tried to use the same hull, but the superfiring turret messed up everything :)

Yes, the SMS Siligia is the neverwere from Sankt Peterburg :)

Borys

[Korpen]

With the completion of the rearming of te Heer, the KKK can get back to expansion.
This is a planed followup for the Juan de Austria class, with the folowing incrimental changes:
- new generation powerplant, with some oil sprinkling;
- all centerline arrangement - A-Q-X-Z;
- two AA guns;
- Secondary Battery casemattes brought to Main Deck level, due to space freed by centerline arrangement of Main battery;
- new 20 inch torpedos;
- customary 400 tonnes allocated to FC, w/t and whatnots;

Solid and unexciting! ;)
A thought however, with no casemates to protect, why the very heavy 20cm upper belt?
And how come the choice was to place the superfiring pair of guns aft?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
After the kinky Siligia solemnity has reigned at the Marineamt ...

The 8" Upper Belt is a leftover from the Juan de Austria :)

Also, the Austro-Hungarians like well armoured ships.

The "majority aft" arrangement is due to fears that a superfiring turret up front would put excessive weight on the bow, thus hampering seaworthiness.

Borys

[P3D]

L:B 5.45?? Wasn't 6:1 agreed as minimum?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I must have the missed the 6:1 L/B rule. Sorry.
Borys

ersatz Sobieski
Habsburger Schlachtschiff
laid down 1912

Displacement:
   23 088 t light; 24 310 t standard; 25 571 t normal; 26 580 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   570,00 ft / 570,00 ft x 94,00 ft x 28,75 ft (normal load)
   173,74 m / 173,74 m x 28,65 m  x 8,76 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
      8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 11 227 lbs / 5 093 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   330,00 ft / 100,58 m   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   240,00 ft / 73,15 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   330,00 ft / 100,58 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 89% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   45,00 ft / 13,72 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   14,0" / 356 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   3rd:   6,00" / 152 mm         -         2,00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38 119 shp / 28 437 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 271 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   1 010 - 1 314

Cost:
   £2,212 million / $8,849 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 396 tons, 5,5%
   Armour: 10 111 tons, 39,5%
      - Belts: 4 487 tons, 17,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 874 tons, 3,4%
      - Armament: 2 389 tons, 9,3%
      - Armour Deck: 2 137 tons, 8,4%
      - Conning Tower: 224 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1 655 tons, 6,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 526 tons, 37,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 483 tons, 9,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36 322 lbs / 16 475 Kg = 29,5 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 6,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 5,4 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 16,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,00 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   22,00 ft / 6,71 m
      - Mid (50%):      22,00 ft / 6,71 m (16,00 ft / 4,88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Stern:      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,32 ft / 5,89 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136,3%
   Waterplane Area: 38 497 Square feet or 3 576 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 179 lbs/sq ft or 872 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,72
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

L:B 5.45?? Wasn't 6:1 agreed as minimum?

Never heard that before. Six to one sounds like a strange limit considering pretty much all pre-dreads had a L:B of around 5:1, and the early German dreadnoughts alos had less then 6:1.

[P3D]

L:B 5.45?? Wasn't 6:1 agreed as minimum?

Never heard that before. Six to one sounds like a strange limit considering pretty much all pre-dreads had a L:B of around 5:1, and the early German dreadnoughts alos had less then 6:1.

Consider it as a drydock beam limit. 1:6 was chosen as a nice round number which is not much off RL numbers. Maddox had a 30000t+ battleship design L:B slightly below 5:1 and high BC that was exactly 170m long. Besides the Nassaus, there were no other dreadnoughts which were so stubby (before bulges were added, that is).

[Korpen]

Consider it as a drydock beam limit. 1:6 was chosen as a nice round number which is not much off RL numbers. Maddox had a 30000t+ battleship design L:B slightly below 5:1 and high BC that was exactly 170m long. Besides the Nassaus, there were no other dreadnoughts which were so stubby (before bulges were added, that is).

But 4:1, 5:1 or 7:1 ar all just as nice round numbers and equally sensible. Cannot see any point to such a limitation, and a large numbers of resons to stay clear of it. Sure one can build floating bricks, but i do not see that as a problem.
Strictly speaking, the Kaiser and Helgoland classes was below 6:1, as was all brittish battleships up to dreadnougt (exept swiftsure).

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I think I am starting to remember - vaguely - this L:B debate.

Just like we forbid more than 4 shafts, we could live with a rule on DD breadth -
Type 0, Dry-dock 70 meters/230 feet (B=12/38), cost $4
Type 1, Dry-dock 120 meters/393 feet (B=20/66), cost $12 +1 BP
Type 2, Dry-dock 170 meters/557 feet (B=28/93), cost $16 + 2 BP
Type 3, Dry-dock 220 meters/721 feet (B=37/120), cost $21 + 3 BP
Type 4, Dry-dock 270 meters/885 feet (B=45/148), cost $27 + 4 BP
Type 5, Dry-dock 320 meters/1049 feet (B=53/175), cost $34 + 5 BP

Or classify designs of 6:1 or 5:1 as "oddballs, moderator aproval".

I could live with either - but I think we are on the verge of outgrowing Type 2 DD anyway, which would eliminate the "playing the rules" (in this case slips/DD length) issue.

Now, my 2nd design - the anorectic one - doesn't fit my slips and can't be laid down before 2/1914.

Or back to the drawing board ...

Borys

[Borys]

With 6:1 L:B and fitting a Type 2 slip ... so maybe I'll just do repeat Juan de Austria's instead ...

Habsburgs Schlachtschiff laid down 1912

Displacement:
   21 666 t light; 22 855 t standard; 24 067 t normal; 25 036 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   555,00 ft / 555,00 ft x 92,50 ft x 28,00 ft (normal load)
   169,16 m / 169,16 m x 28,19 m  x 8,53 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 1,25" / 31,8 mm guns in single mounts, 1,00lbs / 0,45kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 11 202 lbs / 5 081 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   330,00 ft / 100,58 m   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   225,00 ft / 68,58 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   330,00 ft / 100,58 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 91% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   44,00 ft / 13,41 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   14,0" / 356 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   3rd:   6,00" / 152 mm         -         2,00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 37 163 shp / 27 723 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 181 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   965 - 1 255

Cost:
   £2,154 million / $8,616 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 392 tons, 5,8%
   Armour: 9 416 tons, 39,1%
      - Belts: 4 440 tons, 18,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 855 tons, 3,6%
      - Armament: 2 191 tons, 9,1%
      - Armour Deck: 1 714 tons, 7,1%
      - Conning Tower: 216 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1 614 tons, 6,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 844 tons, 36,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 401 tons, 10,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31 025 lbs / 14 073 Kg = 25,2 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 5,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 5,3 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 16,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,586
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,00 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Mid (35%):      18,00 ft / 5,49 m (16,00 ft / 4,88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Stern:      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,34 ft / 5,29 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,4%
   Waterplane Area: 37 059 Square feet or 3 443 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 857 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,58
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The repeat Juan de Austria:
- with 90:10 coal:oil firing
- 2,5: Armoured Deck
- thicker Conning Tower
- slightly more range

SMS Don Juan de Austria, Habsburgs Schlachtschiff laid down 1908 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   22 068 t light; 23 276 t standard; 24 585 t normal; 25 632 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551,18 ft / 551,18 ft x 87,27 ft x 29,23 ft (normal load)
   168,00 m / 168,00 m x 26,60 m  x 8,91 m

Armament:
      8 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11 458 lbs / 5 197 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   201,00 ft / 61,26 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
     Main Belt covers 98% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   48,00 ft / 14,63 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm         -         2,00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 37 738 shp / 28 153 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 355 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   981 - 1 276

Cost:
   £2,188 million / $8,753 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 412 tons, 5,7%
   Armour: 10 319 tons, 42,0%
      - Belts: 5 266 tons, 21,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 932 tons, 3,8%
      - Armament: 2 256 tons, 9,2%
      - Armour Deck: 1 645 tons, 6,7%
      - Conning Tower: 219 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1 639 tons, 6,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 298 tons, 33,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 517 tons, 10,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33 741 lbs / 15 304 Kg = 27,4 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 5,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 4,9 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 16,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,612
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,00 ft / 8,84 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   22,00 ft / 6,71 m
      - Mid (50%):      19,50 ft / 5,94 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,50 ft / 5,94 m
      - Stern:      19,50 ft / 5,94 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,94 ft / 6,38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138,7%
   Waterplane Area: 35 577 Square feet or 3 305 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 786 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,84
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Korpen]

I could live with either - but I think we are on the verge of outgrowing Type 2 DD anyway, which would eliminate the "playing the rules" (in this case slips/DD length) issue.

No matter what rules we have there will always be an element of this. And I do not see much problem with it, it not like dock and slip issues did not affect IRL designs. Adding even more limits to ship designs is in my mind throwing good money after bad. If we have an issue with a ruel i think it is better to either change the rule or remove it rather then add a new rule.

Or classify designs of 6:1 or 5:1 as "oddballs, moderator aproval".

6:1 is a still a bizare place to draw the line, a bit like saying no ship sould have a draft of more then 6m. If one should have such a limit then 4:1 seems a better ones, as that was at least uncommon.

But i still think that such a rule would do more harm then good, and that it is not nececery in any way.

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
The repeat Juan de Austria:
      8 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room

Why not mount the battery on the centerline at least, it should fit (after fiddeling with my own drawings) even if one gets very little superstructure?