1912 Habsburg Monitor

[Borys]

Ahoj!
For coastal operations in the Mediterranean.
For the price of one battleship I can have three such vessels.
Is 343mm an overkill? - I could use 2x12"/40
Borys

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1912

Displacement:
   7 780 t light; 8 163 t standard; 8 483 t normal; 8 739 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   410,00 ft / 410,00 ft x 80,00 ft (Bulges 95,00 ft) x 11,00 ft (normal load)
   124,97 m / 124,97 m x 24,38 m (Bulges 28,96 m)  x 3,35 m

Armament:
      2 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      4 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (4 mounts), 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 092 lbs / 1 403 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   410,00 ft / 124,97 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7 788 shp / 5 810 Kw = 16,00 kts
   Range 4 000nm at 8,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 576 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   441 - 574

Cost:
   £0,644 million / $2,576 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 386 tons, 4,5%
   Armour: 2 987 tons, 35,2%
      - Belts: 1 517 tons, 17,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 378 tons, 4,5%
      - Armour Deck: 967 tons, 11,4%
      - Conning Tower: 125 tons, 1,5%
   Machinery: 342 tons, 4,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 016 tons, 47,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 704 tons, 8,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18 625 lbs / 8 448 Kg = 15,1 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 4,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,33
   Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 16,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,12
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,88

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,693
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4,32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 79
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   12,00 ft / 3,66 m (10,00 ft / 3,05 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      10,00 ft / 3,05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
      - Stern:      10,00 ft / 3,05 m
      - Average freeboard:   10,72 ft / 3,27 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 49,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112,8%
   Waterplane Area: 26 126 Square feet or 2 427 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 631 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,04
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Carthaginian]

Since you have fewer chances to hit per salvo, I'd want the biggest hit I could get out of each. Otherwise, I think they would be an economical way to defend a limited area of coastline... as long as they were well escorted.

[Jefgte]

Coastal bombardement; Pre-dreadnought or cruisers could do the job...

---------------------

" Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather"

Correct is certainly possible  :(...
... Thanks for the crew   :D



Jef  ;)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I scrapped all my pre-dreads and ACs :), and in heavy weather these ships would stay in port.

Borys

[P3D]

If you want the ship fight against BBs, 2 guns are not enough. Against smaller ships you don't need 10" barbette.

[Jefgte]

Borys wrote:
"...and in heavy weather these ships would stay in port"...

That is a shortway Borys.  :D :D :D



Jef  ;)

[Valles]

P3D, don't shore forts and such have heavy guns also?

[P3D]

True, but coastal artillery have significant advantages vs. ships - more stable platform and offering much smaller target. And if you don't fight ships, 16 knots is unnecessary. Also the limited light armament is not really enough against TBs.

The ship is more than a monitor but less than a CDS.
I'd add a TDS especially if there are bulges.

[The Rock Doctor]

Given that her sole purpose is to shoot those big guns, I'd find some weight for Fire Control, and I'd trim her even further for steadiness. 

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Aren't buldges a TBS by default?
Don't I get those 15 feet between buldge and hull?
Not to mention that the Main Belt reaches almost to the bottom of the side?

Borys

[P3D]

Bulges are not TDS, but the part of the beam that is not covered with deck armor.
If you check it, bulge increases the space available for machinery+magazines. Thus a 1mm thick nominal TDS would be handy to reflect this - not as if this ship would have problems with internal space (below 50%).

If you insist on big guns, install two twin 12"s or 12" mortars. Two guns are to few for a 8000t ship.
I'd rather try to buy some old PDNs from someone.

Some internal drawings of a monitor would be helpful, but could not find any online - on that russian site there are some line drawing but that's it :(

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I envisioned buldges to be like on HMS Erebus/Terror -  at lower displacement  you could hold races around the ship, running on the flat top of the buldge.

So I suppose we've run into another SS artifact, then. How does my Main Belt run, then? It is 20 feet wide, with a freeboard of 10 feet, and draught of 11? I saw this armour as going strait down, with the buldge being on the outside ...

What am I to do? Use an Upper Belt of 12-13 feet, to cover what's above the water, and represent the underwater part with TBS for?

Mortars are a waste - too innacurate. I want to hit targets SMALLER than a town.

Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

I disagree with P3D - on a ship of this size, two 13.5" guns, in a superfiring turret, is plenty of firepower.  Especially if it's designed to do 16 knots.

On the other hand, if you do want to pick up some predreadnoughts, I happen to have some...

[P3D]

Borys,

just have a torpedo bulkhead with 1mm thickness, that would make SS2 think correctly that the machinery is not occupying all the beam. It won't affect the design much.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Thanks for the tips and offers of pre-dreads ...
Borys

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1912

Displacement:
   7 780 t light; 8 163 t standard; 8 483 t normal; 8 739 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   410,00 ft / 410,00 ft x 80,00 ft (Bulges 95,00 ft) x 11,00 ft (normal load)
   124,97 m / 124,97 m x 24,38 m (Bulges 28,96 m)  x 3,35 m

Armament:
      2 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1 250,00lbs / 566,99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      4 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (4 mounts), 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 092 lbs / 1 403 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   410,00 ft / 124,97 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      0,03" / 1 mm   410,00 ft / 124,97 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2 838 shp / 2 117 Kw = 12,00 kts
   Range 4 000nm at 8,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 576 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   441 - 574

Cost:
   £0,614 million / $2,454 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 386 tons, 4,5%
   Armour: 3 007 tons, 35,5%
      - Belts: 1 517 tons, 17,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 8 tons, 0,1%
      - Armament: 391 tons, 4,6%
      - Armour Deck: 967 tons, 11,4%
      - Conning Tower: 125 tons, 1,5%
   Machinery: 124 tons, 1,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 012 tons, 47,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 704 tons, 8,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19 723 lbs / 8 946 Kg = 16,0 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 6,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 4,7 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 18,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,693
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4,32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 25 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 92
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   12,00 ft / 3,66 m (10,00 ft / 3,05 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      10,00 ft / 3,05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
      - Stern:      10,00 ft / 3,05 m
      - Average freeboard:   10,72 ft / 3,27 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112,8%
   Waterplane Area: 26 126 Square feet or 2 427 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 631 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,00
      - Longitudinal: 1,02
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather