A Proposal from an Independant Ship Yard

[Tanthalas]

with the recent trend toward larger and larger Battle Ships it has become Obvious that they are now to expensive for large scale Colonial deployment.  As such Eclipse Shipyards has proposed the folowing independant plan.


Italia-CBB-1911, Italia Colonial Battle Ship laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   14,243 t light; 14,838 t standard; 16,045 t normal; 17,011 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   555.00 ft / 555.00 ft x 74.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   169.16 m / 169.16 m x 22.56 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (2x3 guns), 665.50lbs / 301.87kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1911 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,774 lbs / 2,166 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   333.00 ft / 101.50 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   222.00 ft / 67.67 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   333.00 ft / 101.50 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 28,207 shp / 21,042 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,173 tons

Complement:
   712 - 926

Cost:
   £1.179 million / $4.717 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 597 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 6,561 tons, 40.9 %
      - Belts: 4,776 tons, 29.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 865 tons, 5.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 810 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 110 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1,282 tons, 8.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,452 tons, 34.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,802 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29,314 lbs / 13,296 Kg = 44.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (70 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.62 ft / 5.37 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,198 Square feet or 2,713 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 629 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

The other Proposal

Italia-CBB-1911, Italia Colonial Battle Ship laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   15,000 t light; 15,605 t standard; 16,832 t normal; 17,814 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   535.00 ft / 535.00 ft x 83.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   163.07 m / 163.07 m x 25.30 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (2x3 guns), 665.50lbs / 301.87kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,676 lbs / 2,121 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   299.00 ft / 91.14 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   236.00 ft / 71.93 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   299.00 ft / 91.14 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

[Sachmle]

Ya might wanna post the rest of the SS report for the second one.  :P

[Tanthalas]

Damit thats twice that has happend to me...

[Korpen]

Both designs seem to be in line with the semi-dreadnoughts that have been built over the last decade. As I see it; they lack big enough guns (or enough of them) to challenge modern battleships, even ones only 2-3kton larger. At the same time they are not a whole lot cheaper, so I think you should either go up or down in size.
Either a real costal defence battleship of around 6kton (such as : http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1008.msg7354#msg7354) or go up to 16-17kton and make her a modern small BB with 8x30 or 6x35 guns (such as: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=898.msg6026#msg6026 ).

[Tanthalas]

see thats why I posted them I tend to agree with you Korpen but I wanted them to be an evolution of my 10" cruisers, so small cheap and relitivly well armed.  Coastals sort of turn me off due to the fact that they cant realy operate with the battle line, and I dont want a tin clad cause I want to be atleast able to bluff other battle lines.

The Clasic Quandry isnt it

[Ithekro]

They would be nice station ships, but that still makes them around equal to the previous generation of semi-dreadnoughts (though faster in most cases).  What you probably need is either a faster ship that can run down the cruisers that will likely be the main attackers in the colonies, or something with more teeth to handle any local battleship currently under construction.  (That would be whatever the South Americans, Caliphate, Ottoman, or New Zion, has in their battlelines.)  You might want to worry about the Pacific Germans of Brandenburg (if Swamphen ever does return) as they were pushing along the German Dreadnought program with better planning but less resources.  They already had two Battlecruiser by the end of the Pacific War (the second would be finished around the ending of hostilities).

[Tanthalas]

GAH I hadnt even considerd Swampy... I am also to some extent trying to follow the german Fleet plan, although im giving them all a decidedly italian flavor

[Ithekro]

In the post-war era, Brandenberg would not be idle.  They have a fleet to rebuild.  While they may have patched up the fleet with the purchase of four pre-dreadnoughts (two from France, and two from the UNK) they also have their older Anahuac built battleship to repair (after getting mined, patched and then torpedoed), the second Battlecruiser should be finished and in service before 1908 ends, and their first true dreadnought should also be finished by 1911 (if not earlier).  I don't know what Swamphen would build after that however, especially with the leasons of the war behind him.

[Sachmle]

Torpedo boats, cruisers w/ lots of anti-torpedo boat guns and capital ships w/ TDS installed, would be my guess.