New Confederate Ships 1910/1911

[Carthaginian]

Needing a replacement for their aging, slow armored cruisers, the Confederate Navy has decided to go with a ship that trends in a different direction- speed rather than firepower. This was accomplished by dropping displacement somewhat, and going with a longer, leaner hull. Only about 60 feet shorter than their battleships, but much sleeker, this new cruiser mounts the 7.5"/L45 200-pounder as a compromise between firepower and weight-savings. They are deemed powerful enough to compete with any ship fast enough to catch this new cruiser, and are small enough to be mounted in quantity and have a reasonably high rate of fire (6-8 rounds per minute). Armor was not neglected either, with a 5" belt protecting the waterline over the magazines and engine spaces and a 1" splinter-proof belt covering the remainder of the waterline (which was judged sufficient to detonate any light shells from vessels fast enough to catch her). With a top speed of 27 knots- as fast an many destroyers- her speed is her primary defense against ships powerful enough to damage her severely.

A run of 4 units is planned beginning in either late 1910 or early 1911.
Hatchitigbee
Lochapoka
Bukatunna
Opelika



Hatchitigbee, Confederate States of America 2nd Class Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,280 t standard; 6,937 t normal; 7,463 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   490.00 ft / 475.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   149.35 m / 144.78 m x 16.46 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      5 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns in single mounts, 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1,204 lbs / 546 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   321.00 ft / 97.84 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   154.00 ft / 46.94 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 37,301 shp / 27,827 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,183 tons

Complement:
   379 - 494

Cost:
   £0.577 million / $2.306 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 154 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 1,566 tons, 22.6 %
      - Belts: 1,163 tons, 16.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 55 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 309 tons, 4.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 39 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,696 tons, 24.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,399 tons, 34.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 937 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 186 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,689 lbs / 3,487 Kg = 36.4 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.473
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.85 degrees
   Stern overhang: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.55 ft / 5.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,687 Square feet or 1,550 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 432 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Pretty. But - no wing guns?
Borys

[Carthaginian]

Pretty. But - no wing guns?

Well, it was decided that the marginal loss in fore/aft firepower was acceptable in order to make them cheaper save on necessary weight of materials. ;)

[The Rock Doctor]

I like her, a heavy light cruiser.

No fish?

[Carthaginian]

I like her, a heavy light cruiser.

No fish?

WHOOPS!
Thanks, Rock... I missed the fact that I forgot them! Yes, she's supposed to have 2 triples at the indicated locations, will have to check to see if they are fixed or if I have room for trainable tubes. Not a lot of torpedoes, but then again, she's not supposed to use torpedoes a lot either. There'd be 6 reloads also, located under the AD and behind the belt... hard to get them on deck from there, but safer.

The attempt to fuse the 'light' and 'heavy' roles probaby won't be too successful, but the CSN doesnt see much of a way to get sufficient hulls in the water fast enough to make a difference otherwise. With over 80% of my cruiser force being limited to 20 knots, I need 'a powerful lot of ships' rather than 'a lot of powerful ships.' A Hawkins-esque design seemed the best answer; even though she's too light to challenge the 12" armored cruisers coming out- and too heavy to be expendible like a protected cruiser- she will be able to serve as a generic scout/raider/patrol ship for at least a good 10 years without being left behind too badly by the march of progress...

I think.


BTW: It's funny that you should mention 'fish'- this was Project Tarpon. ;)

[The Rock Doctor]

Ah ha...

Well, if she's not successful in the role, you could probably swap up the main and secondaries for a large batch of 6", and you'd have a fairly ferocious CL.

Including torpedoes is a tough call in some cases; I think I've decided to leave them off anything larger than a CL - certainly from capital ships.  In this case, I think I'd recommend for them; if nothing else, the threat of them could be useful in influencing the behaviour of an opposing scout force - especially one centred on a larger AC or BC.

[Carthaginian]

Part of Guard Dog:

Defending it's long coastline form attack has long been one of the greatest expenditures of the Confederacy. Lately, many ships are growing in size to such a degree that they no longer are suited to the roles they are supposed to be designed to perform. Most affected by this inflation is the lowly torpedo ram.

Originally, the torpedo ram was intended to be a small vessel, meant only to deliver torpedoes against a capital ship in coastal waters. As time marched onward, however, the torpedo ram began to require greater speeds and longer range, resulting in larger ships. Then, as torpedo rams of other nearby nations became large and long-ranged enough to attack our fleets on the seas, our torpedo rams had to grow larger still in order to defend against those of the enemy. Their ships then grew larger in order to defend against ours, and a cycle of 'bluff and raise' with no real end in sight began, ballooning the average torpedo ram from only about 200 tons to well over 700 in a matter of only 20 years, with 1000 ton torpedo rams occasionally appearing in the navies of a few nations.

President Roosevelt, while still Secretary of the Navy, called upon his designers to create a new vessel- one true to the purpose of the torpedo ram. This ship would be used primarily as a torpedo launching platform, all other considerations would be secondary to this. It would carry armament only sufficient for self-defense, have the most minimum displacement possible, be able to utilize the smallest slips and dry docks, and would have the highest possible speed for it's size. After many rejected designs (including the one that became the Konfederator which was sold to the Habsburgs), the final product that emerged took 'less is more' to what can only be described as an extreme.

Weighing in at only 300 tons light, the TR-1911X (service designation is unknown as yet) is capable of only 27 knots, but has far better seakeeping and handling characteristics than most other ships her size, and is capable of steaming 1000 miles at 15 knots. She is (barely) suitable for open ocean patrols, and excels at patrolling coastal areas cheaply and efficiently. Also, she has a powerful punch for her size- FIVE 20" torpedo tubes: two trainable twin mounts on deck and a single fixed tube on the waterline at her bow. She mounts a single 25-pounder QF gun forward and two twin 1" machine gun mounts aft and also features two pair of .50 caliber machine guns on her bridge wings for dealing with troublesome small craft.



TR-1911X, Confederate States of America Torpedo Ram laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   300 t light; 310 t standard; 342 t normal; 368 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   230.00 ft / 230.00 ft x 20.00 ft x 6.00 ft (normal load)
   70.10 m / 70.10 m x 6.10 m  x 1.83 m

Armament:
      1 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.05lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 27 lbs / 12 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes, 1 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 7,526 shp / 5,614 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 58 tons

Complement:
   39 - 51

Cost:
   £0.038 million / $0.151 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 0 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 177 tons, 51.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 105 tons, 30.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 42 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 4.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     84 lbs / 38 Kg = 3.9 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 10.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.434
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Mid (45 %):      13.00 ft / 3.96 m (5.00 ft / 1.52 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Stern:      3.00 ft / 0.91 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.17 ft / 2.80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 195.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 54.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,753 Square feet or 256 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 47 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 89 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight:
10 tons - Marconi
  5 tons - 5x20" torpedoes


EDIT: Gun Placement Fixed

[maddox]

At cruise speed she has a patrolling endurance of 2 days and 19 hours.   

Is that enough?

If you look at that for a patrol area, it's a triangle with sides of 150 miles. With as starting point the "base".
For a coast guard or customs vessel maybe enough, but for a torpedo delivery craft, the platform is to limitied in range to warrant 5 tubes.

But that's me.

[Carthaginian]

At cruise speed she has a patrolling endurance of 2 days and 19 hours.   

Is that enough?

If you look at that for a patrol area, it's a triangle with sides of 150 miles. With as starting point the "base".
For a coast guard or customs vessel maybe enough, but for a torpedo delivery craft, the platform is to limitied in range to warrant 5 tubes.

But that's me.

If you drop the cruise speed to 12 knots, the cruise range goes up to 1700 miles. By further dropping to 10 knots, the range increases to 2600 miles... which is pretty respectable for something this small.

15 knots was just meant to be a 'dash speed' cruise range, how fast the ship could travel from point A to Point B at a moderately high speed. It wasn't meant to be the actual patrol speed.

[P3D]

[picky]
Looks too 'bow heavy" for me, I'd guess such a crafts IRL would have a permanent pitch forward, unless it has a relatively full underwater hull fore for buoyancy - not really likely with the low BC. But that's just me.

I more or less like the freeboard values, except it being a mere 3' at the stem, a result of the forward rising deck. At any speed (i.e. when they would launch torpedoes against enemy ships) the aft might be awash with water making the TTs unusable.

IMHO - feel free to ignore.

I see no problem with the range whatsoever.
[/picky]

[Carthaginian]

I can understand the bow-heavy comment; she looks for all the world like an upside-down meat cleaver. I figured that the weight of turbines, boilers, condensers, refrigeration units, etc, would balance the weight of a single torp tube, one QF gun and about 40 bunk beads (whaddya mean, 'I want my own bed'), 2 heads and some assorted personal effects. If not, I'm sorry.

Well, the freeboard on my TR-200 was 'too high' so I have been making an effort to get it lower on the next series; this may be fantasy, but I want it to be believable fantasy. I don't see how launching the torps would be too much trouble in anything but heavy (for the Gulf) weather, though, as a lot of Japanese destroyers had similar freeboard, right up to WWII. I know that a gale might present a problem, but normal seas (5-10 feet is average around P-cola/Mobile/Biloxi/NO) shouldn't be too bad.

I did some work on the range issue.
I can take 4 boats and basically 'run a relay' between two ports.
One in Port A refueling, one at 1/3 mark sailing to Port B, one boat at 2/3 mark sailing back to Port A, and one in Port B preparing to leave. I can do this with virtually any two port on my Gulf Coast. About 24 boats would cover everything nicely, and that's with approximately 500 mile routes.

[Korpen]

I can understand the bow-heavy comment; she looks for all the world like an upside-down meat cleaver. I figured that the weight of turbines, boilers, condensers, refrigeration units, etc, would balance the weight of a single torp tube, one QF gun and about 40 bunk beads (whaddya mean, 'I want my own bed'), 2 heads and some assorted personal effects. If not, I'm sorry.

I like the cleaver look.
I do not think weight as such might be a problem, but all hull breaks does constitute a weak point in a hull as it is a break in the grinders. Normally, this is not a major issue as the difference is no so extreme, but on this ship the difference is huge. I have great fear that it will be an awful lot of stress in the hull around the midbreak, especially in higher waves (2-3m+) as there will be large changes in displacement, and that stress is concentrated to a very small area.

Of course I might be wrong...

[Carthaginian]

Well, current wave height in the area I want this ship to work in seldom exceeds 4m and generally resides in the 1-2m range. Also, at only 300t and 70m x 6m x 1.8m, she's not exactly approved for operations in heavy weather. ;) Yes, the break is rather large (one full deck), but it's no worse than on some other early destroyers. I wouldn't THINK that it would be too serious a problem.

Of course, I might be wrong, as well...

[maddox]

Actualy, it depends how the hull is constructed.

If the hull is constructed like a flush deck, with a low freeboard and the bow/foredeck is build on top of that, you have a strong hull, but a weaker forward structure.

Bracing that, or build in enough stiffners to get the hull with the break strong enough overall is going to eat in the weightbudget.

All in all, this little ship will do its job. Untill it runs into something it can't take. Like a nice fresh hurricane.

[Carthaginian]

LOL... any time that one of these ships started catching appreciable gusts of wind, they would have orders to make for the nearest sheltered harbor. Their short patrol routes would keep them within a day's travel of some port or another, and would thus mean that the ships would be pretty safe.

Wil probably start the run of these sometime in 1911.