New Ships of the Mark: 1909

[Ithekro]

The 1909 Battlecruiser of the Mark.

The plan it for this vessel to have an improved turret over the Snowmane and Arcadia, and thus have individual sleaves for each gun rather than one sleave for all three guns.  Also this one use of the imported Confederate 6 inch guns and full oil fire on a slightly improved turbine (to keep her at 24 knots).  This vessel makes the improvements to several naval yards to Type 3 with Type 3 slips and dock a priority.  Also a fourth turret.

(Felaróf was the horse of Eorl the Young and father to all the mearas.)

Felaróf - to be laid down 1909
Arod - to be laid down 1910
Hasufel - to be laid down 1911

Rohan Battle Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   20,563 t light; 21,876 t standard; 23,500 t normal; 24,705 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   625.00 ft / 625.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   190.50 m / 190.50 m x 27.43 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x3 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,416 lbs / 5,632 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     5.00 ft / 1.52 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 24.01 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,923 tons)

Complement:
   948 - 1,233

Cost:
   £2.251 million / $9.003 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,459 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 7,291 tons, 31.0 %
      - Belts: 3,037 tons, 12.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 746 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 1,936 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,396 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 177 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,182 tons, 9.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,481 tons, 40.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,937 tons, 12.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,689 lbs / 8,931 Kg = 22.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.542
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.32 ft / 5.28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,717 Square feet or 3,504 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 179 lbs/sq ft or 875 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ithekro]

These new Battleships of the Mark introduce the triple 14" gun to the Navy.  Not entirely sure if it will be funtional, the vessel is equipt with two triple mounts and two twin mounts.  This vessel also used the imported reverse engineered Confederate 6" gun and has a torpedo bulkhead in response to the effectiveness of Swiss and others torpedo fire during the resent war.  One diffuculty in this design process is that the Helm Hammerhand-class is not even completed before the next class begins to be built.  Only limited operational experiance with the Snowmane, Freawine, and Walda can help designers at this stage.

Aragorn - laid down in early 1909
Narm - to be laid down later in 1909

Rohan Battleship laid down 1909

Displacement:
   25,142 t light; 26,455 t standard; 27,500 t normal; 28,226 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   555.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 105.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   169.16 m / 167.64 m x 32.00 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 15,031 lbs / 6,818 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 34,500 shp / 25,737 Kw = 20.92 kts
   Range 5,750nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,881 tons)

Complement:
   1,067 - 1,388

Cost:
   £2.678 million / $10.711 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,879 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 10,312 tons, 37.5 %
      - Belts: 3,666 tons, 13.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 360 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armament: 3,674 tons, 13.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,337 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 276 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,568 tons, 5.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,283 tons, 41.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,358 tons, 8.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,620 lbs / 13,889 Kg = 22.3 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.24 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.78 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.82 ft / 6.35 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 42,105 Square feet or 3,912 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 980 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.83
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

gah noooooooo its my Italia class >.<... WTB more damn BP.  lol it realy is almost identical to the Italia class i want to lay down

[Ithekro]

Aragorn or Felaróf?  (I assume Aragorn).  I've actually had this sitting for some time now, and mostly have been debating when to build it.  One version was for 10 guns in all twins (like New York) and then this one (like Nevada) to be the one after than in 1911 or 1912 with the hopefully improved engines.  Then I realized that I didn't need to wait for better engines, I don't want the battleship's fleet speed to be over 21 knots, so it doesn't matter all that much if they are 1909 or 1912 engines for these battleships and with the 14" triples ready, I can build these now rather than later.

The Felaróf-class is a basic improvement on the Snowmane (add a fourth turret and upgrade the secondary guns from 4.5" to 6").  I don't know exactly what the 1912 model Battlecruiser will be yet.  I suspect a nine guns triple 14" gun speed demon version of the Helm Hammerhand followed in 1915 with a 12 gun version of the same thing.  Due to engine restictions they might turn into twin turret versions that are really fast.  Don't know for sure yet (was thinking 16" gun twin versions, but I should wait on those until I'm sure I can have the technology for such a thing).  On the other hand, there may not be a 1912 Battlecruiser and instead the Mark will just build more Battleships and finally fill out the lower end of the fleet again.

[Tanthalas]

Aragorn, lol my hold up is work on the tripple 14" mount >.<, well that and i cant afford to lay one down yet.  I hate being a broke ass lol, but meh nothing i can do about that (should have asked for Maoria its listed as a super power after all) just have to make due building 12" ships for now.

[P3D]

Extremely short ranges for a ship so big and having oil firing. As no strokers would get tired, the ship will travel mostly faster than 10kts. The minimum should be the 8000@10 range of Nevada or the 3000t oil bunkerage of the QE.

Stability for both ships is barely acceptable, I'd say reduce the trim, and forget the "stable platform" rating.
I'd note that SS2 does not like having twin and triple turrets together..
100t misc weight is very little for a 25000t ship.
The 1" torpedo bulkhead will rupture by any explosion, the minimum thickness should be 1.5".
The BC has lower freeboard than the BB.

[Ithekro]

Modifed, but does not comform to standard specification of being very seaworthy and stable in battle.  Range increased to 6,000 nm at 12 knots.   Armor is probably too heavy as it takes up over 37% of the tonnage.

Aragorn

Rohan Battleship laid down 1909

Displacement:
   24,458 t light; 25,941 t standard; 27,500 t normal; 28,637 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   555.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 105.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   169.16 m / 167.64 m x 32.00 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 15,031 lbs / 6,818 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.50" / 64 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 34,500 shp / 25,737 Kw = 20.92 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,807 tons)

Complement:
   1,067 - 1,388

Cost:
   £2.654 million / $10.615 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,879 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 10,328 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 3,666 tons, 13.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 899 tons, 3.3 %
      - Armament: 3,151 tons, 11.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,337 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 276 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,568 tons, 5.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,433 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,042 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,058 lbs / 12,727 Kg = 20.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.24 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.03 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.32 ft / 4.97 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 42,105 Square feet or 3,912 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 193 lbs/sq ft or 943 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.42
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Modified.  Still up to specifications for seaworthiness and stability.  Range reduce to 6,000 nm at 12 knots.

Felaróf

Rohan Battle Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   20,849 t light; 22,091 t standard; 23,500 t normal; 24,533 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   630.00 ft / 630.00 ft x 93.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   192.02 m / 192.02 m x 28.35 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x3 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,416 lbs / 5,632 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   430.00 ft / 131.06 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   430.00 ft / 131.06 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   430.00 ft / 131.06 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 24.05 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,536 tons)

Complement:
   948 - 1,233

Cost:
   £2.261 million / $9.043 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,459 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 7,190 tons, 30.6 %
      - Belts: 2,734 tons, 11.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 859 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 2,000 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,419 tons, 6.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 177 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,182 tons, 9.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,818 tons, 41.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,651 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,929 lbs / 9,493 Kg = 24.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.77 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,355 Square feet or 3,563 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 892 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

The Mark's sitting pretty, having little to do but build capital ships...

The designs look good, no obvious criticisms...

[Ithekro]

Perhaps, but the Mark is also scrapping old destroyers and torpedo boats like crazy (Denethor as well).  With that reclaimed good they should be able to rebuild Goldwine and Theoden as they has planned to do in 1908. 

Current thinking is that Rohan will scrap all the old Torpedo Boats and Destroyers in the Caribbean and Northern Pacific Fleets while the Central Pacific Fleet's Yards are busy building Confederate destroyers for the next year or so.  After that the other old torpedo boats and destroyers can be scrapped (along with the old ex-ACM belted cruisers and probably Boromir) followed by those larger ships that are not sold in 1909 (unless it seems worthwhile to refit and hand on to some of those old ships for coastal/harbor defense).

Aragorn is laid down in early 1909.  Narm and Felaróf will be laid down later in the year.  With the material recession of 1906 - 08, all of Rohan's ships will be late finishing construction for a time.  Constellation and the three belted cruisers will be completed in 1909 however.  (Now who gets to keep Constellation....that is an interesting question.  She won't be delivered until the very end of 1909 so she won't effectively be useful until 1910.  The question is who will own her?  The Swiss?  The Japanese?  Brandenburg?  Rohan?  It will depend on what is happening in New Switzerland I imagine.

[The Rock Doctor]

You assume New Switzerland won't get into another war before she's completed...a risky proposition, methinks.

What was the rebuilding of Goldwine/Theoden - jacking up B turret to superfiring?

[Ithekro]

Essentially a raised "B" turret and more modern engines and updating the guns. Light displacement goes up by 200 tons and she trades fuel space for engines (though with added oil fired boilers at 10% to assist with that space problem) She increases her range and cruising speed so she can keep up with the slightly newer Elfwine-class battleships.  This also gets the older model 12" guns out of service at last (when the older battleships are removed from servive in 1910-1912) as this was the last class fitted with them.  This will leave only Elfwine herself that will need a rebuild to raiser her "B" turret as Eomer was rebuilt as the prototype and Brytta was finished with a raised turret.  Ironic since it was the damage to Elfwine's "B" turret that started the process to raise the turrets in the first place.

Theoden

Rohan Battleship laid down 1893 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   12,474 t light; 13,407 t standard; 14,716 t normal; 15,705 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 69.00 ft x 22.50 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 21.03 m  x 6.86 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      14 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1902 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1902 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9,111 lbs / 4,133 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 16.51 kts
   Range 5,830nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,357 tons)

Complement:
   667 - 868

Cost:
   £1.461 million / $5.843 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,092 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 4,784 tons, 32.5 %
      - Belts: 2,717 tons, 18.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,203 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 721 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 142 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 762 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,586 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,242 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,015 lbs / 7,264 Kg = 18.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.86
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.706
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.81 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.50 ft / 6.55 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Stern:      11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.38 ft / 4.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,976 Square feet or 2,413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 158 lbs/sq ft or 769 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.04
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Theoden (original design)

Rohan Battleship laid down 1893

Displacement:
   12,274 t light; 13,329 t standard; 14,387 t normal; 15,176 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 69.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 21.03 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1893 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1893 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1893 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      14 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1893 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1893 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 8,739 lbs / 3,964 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,000 ihp / 5,222 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 5,250nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,904 tons)

Complement:
   656 - 853

Cost:
   £1.519 million / $6.077 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,092 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 4,763 tons, 33.1 %
      - Belts: 2,717 tons, 18.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,186 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 721 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,228 tons, 8.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,191 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,113 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,623 lbs / 6,633 Kg = 16.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.706
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.81 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 33 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.88 ft / 4.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,974 Square feet or 2,413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 714 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily