Re: Kra Canal discussion

[The Rock Doctor]

I can see the point of building a canal to skip a trip around a continent, but this seems a little unnecessary.  Can Siam even afford it, even with Swiss assistance?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Siam can't afford it. However, with half a million coolies ...

As to the first part of the question - the Malacca and Sund straits are awful - shallow and narrow. Big ships take the Lombok and Makassar straits (i.e. to the EAST of Jawa and Borneo), which is a nice detour. 

So, the Kra canal would cut down sailing distance for some of those bigger vessels, and eliminate the need to pass though pirate threathened Malaysian waters.

But Thailand will never build it, as it means the death of Singapore. And in that part of the world it is the Chinese who have money for such things.

Borys

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
Siam can't afford it. However, with half a million coolies ...

As to the first part of the question - the Malacca and Sund straits are awful - shallow and narrow. Big ships take the Lombok and Makassar straits (i.e. to the EAST of Jawa and Borneo), which is a nice detour. 

So, the Kra canal would cut down sailing distance for some of those bigger vessels, and eliminate the need to pass though pirate threathened Malaysian waters.

But Thailand will never build it, as it means the death of Singapore. And in that part of the world it is the Chinese who have money for such things.

Borys

The pirate threat is pretty no-existent in this era, at least for larger ships (as the speed boat and assault rifle is not yet invented).
Also, while the Sunda strait is full of floating sandbanks, the only thing against the Malacca strait is that it is narrow, but any canal would be even more narrow. ;)

And as of yet, i do not think there is any ship in the world that cannot pass the Malacca strait, as the minimum depth is 25m (malacamax are said to be 20m draft).

But, no matter how big a canal is, it is never going to put the natural straits out of business, as 25% of all world trade today pass trough the Malacca strait, it would have to be a VERY big canal to make a large dent it that.

And here in the game, i really fail to see what would the point for Siam to build something like that, as they have no real navy.

Something i was thinking about was how the lombak strait works as a trade rout, as we got a new large landmass in the Timor sea.

[Borys]

The pirate threat is pretty no-existent in this era, at least for larger ships (as the speed boat and assault rifle is not yet invented).

Reading Desertfox's posts, the impression is that there is a NS privateer over the horison as I write this post ... and a sailboat and a couple of blokes with kris or axes works just as well ...

Also, while the Sunda strait is full of floating sandbanks, the only thing against the Malacca strait is that it is narrow, but any canal would be even more narrow. ;)

In a canal you will not have fishing boats, you will not have shifting sandbanks, and you will not collide with a ship whose skipper fell asleep.

And as of yet, i do not think there is any ship in the world that cannot pass the Malacca strait, as the minimum depth is 25m (malacamax are said to be 20m draft).

Big tankers. These have been taking the Lombak Strait sinces the '70s

But, no matter how big a canal is, it is never going to put the natural straits out of business, as 25% of all world trade today pass trough the Malacca strait, it would have to be a VERY big canal to make a large dent it that.

Quite possible. But the Chinese still won't give the money :)

And here in the game, i really fail to see what would the point for Siam to build something like that, as they have no real navy.

"Me-too" syndrom. All the cool kids are building canals, so Desertfox feels left out ...

Something i was thinking about was how the lombak strait works as a trade rout, as we got a new large landmass in the Timor sea.

You can walk from Australia to Timor over the decks of New Swiss privateers ....

Borys

[Korpen]

Reading Desertfox's posts, the impression is that there is a NS privateer over the horison as I write this post ... and a sailboat and a couple of blokes with kris or axes works just as well ...

In a canal you will not have fishing boats, you will not have shifting sandbanks, and you will not collide with a ship whose skipper fell asleep.

No but you got the risk of running into some of the mines my minelayers have to dump accidentally outside the canal entrances a few times every mouth. I blame it on that the captains overloaded them a bit, so was forced to drop all heavy thing overboard...

Big tankers. These have been taking the Lombak Strait sinces the '70s

Thst is not "big" tankers, that is supertankers ;)

"Me-too" syndrom. All the cool kids are building canals, so Desertfox feels left out ...

Hm, i have to do something about that then.

You can walk from Australia to Timor over the decks of New Swiss privateers ....

*Note to self, mobilize the naval ships based on Timor...

[swamphen]

*hides plans for Viktoriakanal*

;D

[Ithekro]

Why would Desertfox feel left out, he's partly building the New Beleriand Canal as the New Swiss.

[Walter]

You don't need a Canal at Kra, but a Canon at Kra. :)
http://www.answers.com/topic/le-canon-de-kra

[Borys]

You don't need a Canal at Kra, but a Canon at Kra. :)
http://www.answers.com/topic/le-canon-de-kra

Mmmm ... big guns ... mmmm

Borys

[Walter]

If you want to know how big, that's a 50cm big KABOOM according to the comic book.

[swamphen]

Rule 34. If you're leaving scorch marks, you need a bigger gun.

[maddox]

I have that comic, Yoko Tsuno. And what sursrised me, even if Roger Leloup is an artist who does research, the shell he draws there is small. At best 6 feet long.
Even the Iowa 16" shells were longer.
This means the shell is lightweight, and that fits the bill for German guns, high MV prefered.

[Walter]

Funny thing is that I get the same impression when I look at it. Perhaps he did not do good research on the German 50cm gun because he could not find any good data on it.

Tamiya News Supplement book "Random Japanese Warship Details" gives the next lengths for the projectiles (I'll just give the whole bunch from right to left)...
15.5 cm (55.87 kg) = 633.2 mm
20.3 cm (125.8 kg) = 906.2 mm
36 cm (673.5 kg) = 1,524.7 mm
40 cm (1,020 kg) = 1,738.5 mm
Japanese sailor (weight probably 70kg) = about 1,700 mm (no data given in the book on that guy they drew in ther efor comparison with the shells)
46 cm (1,460 kg) = 1,953,5 mm
46 cm 300 kg charge (6 x 55 kg) = 2,280 mm

It's a shame that Navweaps does not have any data on a similar weapon (with good data that is as the Japanese 51 cm/45 (20.1") "A" Type 98 does not give a projectile length). It does have data on the German 53 cm/52 (21") Gerät 36 with a projectile length of 262.1 cm.

[Desertfox]

"Me-too" syndrom. All the cool kids are building canals, so Desertfox feels left out ...

Actually I was the first to start building a canal in-game. The Darien Canal was under construction but under an NPC (Rocky not playing it then). I had just read"Panama Canal, Path Between the Seas" and got the canal bug. Then I started playing Siam and needed something for the news, also that canal was already being planned, as NS needed a second route to the Indian Ocean. I dont want to be at the whims of any single country and for a Merchant Nation canals can mean life or death.

As for affordable, NS is paying the bulk of the bill, with Siam contributing some mainly local infrastructure. With the Beleriand Canal almost finished and Siam and NS as allies this canal will receive high priority soon.

[Borys]

Me wrong then - you were first.

Cost - 600$? 800$?

Borys