Baltic Cofederation Monitors

[ledeper]

Mod, bcs monitor laid down 1908

Displacement:
   8.853 t light; 9.215 t standard; 9.644 t normal; 9.988 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   375,00 ft / 375,00 ft x 90,00 ft x 11,48 ft (normal load)
   114,30 m / 114,30 m x 27,43 m  x 3,50 m

Armament:
      2 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns in single mounts, 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1.978 lbs / 897 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   243,75 ft / 74,30 m   11,38 ft / 3,47 m
   Ends:   5,00" / 127 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   11,38 ft / 3,47 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   12,0" / 305 mm      12,0" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14.360 shp / 10.713 Kw = 18,00 kts
   Range 2.500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 774 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   486 - 632

Cost:
   £0,629 million / $2,517 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 247 tons, 2,6 %
   Armour: 1.719 tons, 17,8 %
      - Belts: 931 tons, 9,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 788 tons, 8,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 798 tons, 8,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6.088 tons, 63,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 792 tons, 8,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     24.651 lbs / 11.181 Kg = 28,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 4,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 5,1 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 16,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,86

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,871
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4,17 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,70 ft / 6,92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Stern:      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,13 ft / 4,61 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 47,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 177,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 31.254 Square feet or 2.904 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 182 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 839 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,21
      - Longitudinal: 1,93
      - Overall: 1,26
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

this is a test want comments

[Sachmle]

For starters you probably don't want the 5"s in turret w/ barbette, more likely deck mount w/ hoist.  Also they should be QF not BLR, and twins would be unwieldy and would hamper your ROF vs small ships. Stick to singles.  If a monitor WAY too much freeboard.  Most monitors of the early 20th century had like 6' tops at the fo'c'sle and as litte as 2' aft. Just curious, why a monitor anyway? Why not build a nice flotilla of TBs. Monitors, even the "seagoing" ones were relativly useless outside of a harbour.  If you want large caliber for port defence, build shore batteries. They're usually at a higher elevation, therefore have greater range and since they're on solid ground they are more stable and therefore more accurate.  With a squad of TBs you can ambush the invaders before they get close and inflict some damage and then if they push through unload with the shore batteries.

[ledeper]

As far as I can see, I dont have the necesserary tech to build Torpedo-boats and Destroyers,so as a stopgap mess.evt.monitors.
If I am wrong plase tell

[The Rock Doctor]

You'll have the tech for some type of TB/DD, but they may not be absolute top-notch.  Khymerion must have done some work in this regard...

As for this ship:

A half-dozen or more 5" casemates would be a lighter weight defensive battery, and would avoid any issue of the small turrets being legal. 

If you intend this primarily as a shore-bombardment platform, I'd use that surplus hull strength to add about two inches of deck armor.  Reducing the block-coefficient to about 0.70 at most (compensating with additional length and depth) will give a better seakeeping value, which in turn means a better steadiness rating and a more effective gun platform.  0.7 is still barge-like, as I recall; 0.87 is getting into "brick" territory.

Consider using one twin 12" turret rather than two singles.  It's more weight efficient, allows better siting of smaller guns and fittings, and against shore targets, you can afford to put both eggs in one basket.

You ought to assign a bit of miscellaneous weight - say 50 t - for weight reserve and a wireles shack.

Finally, if the job is to shell land targets, you can get by with a much lower speed - maybe twelve knots.

[Sachmle]

Not the greatest, but not completely useless either. According to what's on the Tech page for you this is your abilites as far as small craft.

DD/TB Main Gun Layout
Baseline (0): single TTs - max 4, displacement 500t

Torpedoes
Primitive (-2) : 800m@26kts range, 50kg warhead (-1 dam.), compressed air 0.5t

Unless, as RD pointed out, this was for shore bombardment. In which case please disregard the man behind the curtain... ;D there's nothing to see here, move along.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Your technology is here:
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=308.0

And you have progressed from there, as it is the 1906 starting level.

From last budget 1/1907

Research
BB/AC Architecture (Cutting Edge)  ($1 – 3 Turns)
Misc Research into the Applications of automatic and quick firing technologies (IE:  I can't figure out what to spend it on... black hole project/placeholder/mad scientist funding - $.25 ($.75 so far))
Development of the 14"/L40 naval rifle. ($.50 - 3 turns)
Project 'Mjolnir' ($1 – 5 turns)
Research into Heavier than Air Crafts (Advanced) ($1 - 3 turns)
Research Oil Fired Boilers ($1 – 2 Turn)
Research Electric Propulsion ($1 – 2 Turn)

Projects that are currently on hold:
Research into Internal Combustion Engines (Advanced) (1 turn into research)

Technology Integration
Naval Propulsion (Cutting Edge) ($.25 - 2 Turn)
Torpedo Technologies (Advanced) ($.25 – 2 Turn)
Destroyer/TB Maingun Layout (Advanced) ($.25 - 2 Turn)
Submarines (Baseline) ($.25 - 2 turn)
Infantry Weapon Technology (Cutting Edge) ($.25 - 1 turn)

So you see that by 2/1907 you have progressed to
12,000 HP/shaft engines
better torpedos
750 tonne destroyers
submarines

In 2/1907 you absorbed Advanced Infantry Weapons, which will become available in 1/1908.

I will PM you with what

Project 'Mjolnir'

was. Anyway, you have it already.

You also can manufacture 14"/40 guns, although I'm not sure on what mounts.

Borys

[ledeper]

Enter ship name, bcs monitor laid down 1908

Displacement:
   8.864 t light; 9.215 t standard; 9.644 t normal; 9.988 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   375,00 ft / 375,00 ft x 90,00 ft x 11,48 ft (normal load)
   114,30 m / 114,30 m x 27,43 m  x 3,50 m

Armament:
      2 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      4 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1.856 lbs / 842 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   243,75 ft / 74,30 m   11,38 ft / 3,47 m
   Ends:   5,00" / 127 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   11,38 ft / 3,47 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   12,0" / 305 mm      12,0" / 305 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 7.159 shp / 5.340 Kw = 15,00 kts
   Range 2.500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 774 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   486 - 632

Cost:
   £0,561 million / $2,243 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 232 tons, 2,4 %
   Armour: 2.734 tons, 28,3 %
      - Belts: 931 tons, 9,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 648 tons, 6,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1.155 tons, 12,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 398 tons, 4,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.501 tons, 57,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 780 tons, 8,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35.256 lbs / 15.992 Kg = 40,8 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 7,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 5,6 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,871
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4,17 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,30 ft / 6,49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13,56 ft / 4,13 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13,56 ft / 4,13 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,56 ft / 4,13 m
      - Stern:      13,56 ft / 4,13 m
      - Average freeboard:   14,18 ft / 4,32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 33,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 31.709 Square feet or 2.946 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 179 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 761 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,09
      - Longitudinal: 1,92
      - Overall: 1,16
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Revised idea,pls comment

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd suggest making it eight 4", and sticking in 50 t of misc. weight.  Then, since you'll still have extra hull strength, cut down the draft until you have a lighter ship with 1.00 hull strength.  No sense in over-building.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
What Rock said.

Plus ....
I think Korpen had an idea for armoured bows for ice breaking duty. Usefull in her intended environment.
The ammo load - I'm not sure about the size. battleships had 80-120, but this is a monitor, where longer firing can be expected, so maybe the high figure is OK?
The "other gunhouse" can be cut down to 6 or 8 inches - historically it usually was around 2/3rds of the turret face, or even less.

Borys

[Korpen]

On Tech: From 1/1908 you can start integrating oil firing tech as well, this under a deal between the Netherlands and the Baltic's struck  before Khymrion disappeared.

On the ship itself, I must be boring and ask:
What is the point?

The Confederation is the largest power in the Baltic Sea and controls the openings to it; you do not have any great need of a ship that can only be used for cost defence. For its size its fighting capacity is fairly low. She got too few guns to hit anything at longer ranges, and too little armour and guns to do any damage up close.
And she is far too big to be used as a floating battery...

Having larger artillery ships to back smaller torpedo and mine warfare ships is nice, and necessary I think a ship such as this is poor economy, either build a real battleships or two more, or some real cruisers (that can also be used in the north sea and the Atlantic).

[Borys]

Ahoj!
And what if Muscovy invades Sweden?
Of Kiev decides to straighten the border, i.e. "move it" westwards to the Vistula? Or - shudders in shock&terror - to the Oder?

Borys

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
And what if Muscovy invades Sweden?
Borys

Hold at the fortress of Boden, and use lots of mines.
But I would say the Baltic's need some base on the east coast, and that is pretty much the reason that Karlskrona exist. Dalarö was another important base.
But while the Russian fleet is large and strong, it is divided, and has no real ability to concentrate against the Baltic's. So I think it would make sense to build core of real battleships, and support them with regional light forces, rather then diluting strength with dispersed middle-class units that are only good for one purpose.