The Mithlond Conference, July 1908

[miketr]

"What is the insult to Iberia's honor, sir?
What affront?
I know of none delivered by my government.

The Confederate States none, the Kingdom of the Netherlands the list is long and only because of Austria and Brandenburg being at war with the Netherlands enemies did we not declare war on them long ago.  That difficulty has been removed and the calculated insults have continued.  Which brings things to the next point...

The fact that this conference is talking rather than not is proof that an 'international community' does still exist- and that many nations are willing to work together for a common goal.

Accept that at least one of the nations here has refused to even answer any question we have put forward to them on this issue.  An issue of critical importance to both of our nations and that nation is the Republic of France.  Having to get answers second hand is at best a waste of everyone's time.  We have tried to help come up with a solution to there satisfaction by having our talks with New Switzerland.  In response to our questions to France as to what type of solution they are looking for we have been met with stony silence.  All because it seams over there anger over the NSS Launceston.  I say seams because we have yet to receive a clear statement that this is the root of the problems; just a list of demands that she is a pirate vessel and has committed crimes against the laws of the sea.  Plus a demand for us to turn her over.  With the charges at last in hand I understand that as we speak a ship is going to question the Launceston's crew.

Of course there is the minor point that instead of having talks about the problem several nations defaulted to force of arms to solve the Indonesian issue.  I do not see how equals to a spirit of cooperation you speak of.  Did France even tell New Switzerland they had issue with the sale?  Did any of the nations we have recieved reports are going to use force even tell New Switzerland that they had issue?

My nation stands to gain nothing from an independent East Indies, nothing.

How much does Iberia has to loose if the East Indies comes apart into chaos or a general war occurs there.

How often has the Confederate Navy sailed from our ports other than to patrol the coasts of our own country? How often were we enticed by promises- mostly Swiss, recently- of great rewards for our efforts in combat and we stood by peacefully?

Iberia has had a similar experience.

No, we desire to see gain for ALL nations... and that means the East Indies must be given a chance to treat with all nations on equal terms."

I say again any solution that will worsen Iberia's situation and or does not adders our issues will not be accepted.

[miketr]

". It was Atjeh, sundry Malay states, Java, Bali, Flores, Sombawa Sultanate ruling itself and the neighboring islands not a unified Indonesian Empire. ."

"Then allow each of these bodies to vote among themselves.
Odds are, many will relish the chance to throw off any government but their own. They could also, having being conquered as seperate entities in the past, see the good in working togeather to preserve their newfound freedom.

Stranger things have happened."

These people have never been unified accept under Dutch rule.  You will create a hundred or more feuding successor states in the name of self determination.  At best in the succession wars that follow millions will die and all the nations nearby will be flooded with those fleeing the blood shed and chaos.
 

[Borys]

Przewalski:
- at the moment let us have the Three Great powers move in with the Big Stick. The soonest any discussion of final internal arrangments makes sense is 1912.

[Carthaginian]

"What harm will come to Iberian interests, then, should Iberia NOT recieve this territory that was never theirs to begin with?

What loss will you sustain from no longer possessing what was never yours?

The answer is none, and the implications are plain- Iberia wishes to gain this territory for herself, not out of a sense of honest loss, but out of a desire for imperialistic gain, similar to what the Dutch were motivated by when the conquered it in the first place.

Iberia has lost nothing in the East Indies... why claim there is anything there that belongs more rightfully to you than to those who live there?"

[Ithekro]

"I would point a correction to Mr. Mosby in relation of Iberia and the East Indies.  The geographical relationship between the Indies and the Philippines makes it quite a worry for the Iberias as the chaos that will be wrote in that region and the refugee problem on a scale that will make the Irish immigration pale in comparison shall flood the Iberians with more people then they could possibly want, and the potental to be drawn into a conflict they have no desire to be involved.  The lines of communication to Iberia from the Philippines will be cut off if their is abject chaos in the East Indies.  Piracy may rise in Southeast Asia as people attempt to take what little they have away from the wars.  Slavery may return to the region.  While they may be able to form a stable government in time, will the other powers of the world allow them that time?  I'm sure the phrase, 'the spice must flow' comes to mind as the reason the Europeans even went to their isles in the first place.  Oil now seems to be a possible commodity of interest in the isles, therefore encouraging other nations to go for the prize and cause an even greater general war.  Perhaps it will remain localized like many colonial wars and spare the world the chaos.  But the Iberian's fears are founded."

[Tanthalas]

Perhaps this proposal then Italia takes over part of the purchase assuming full responsibility for Payment, to The Netherlands.  Swiss take the other portion this would ensure both Iberian and French lines of transit and communication with their respective colonies, as well as putting a neutral stabilizing power in the region, while keeping the original offer basically intact.

[miketr]

Respectfully more Mr. Mosby did you even listen to a word I just said?  In answer to your rather loaded and insulting questions see Rohans view of the situation.

I might also add if we were motivated purely by greed as you suggest why wait till now to do anything about it?  We have been courted by both sides from the start.  After our troubles occured with the Netherlands we had a firm statement months ago from both Austria and Brandenburg they would understand if we moved to make war on the Netherlands. 

Did we suggest a divisions of East Indies with Switzerland?  Yes but only to secure our own needs and only after the Dutch offer to sell them to Switzerland was made.  We would be fools not to talk to Switzerland.

As to the Italian suggestion respectfully now is not the time.  France if our information is correct has large issues and they need to voice them.

[Ithekro]

OCC:
Patience.  That seems to be the thing lacking most in these talks.

[Carthaginian]

Short, OoC & Sweet:

Ithekro: The CSA won't buy the 'unstable neighbor' excuse. They point to the instability of the Swiss and ask 'can it be any worse?' Also, there are several major powers that are willing to commit ships to prevent the piracy that you claim would become rife. There would be only minimum danger.

Mike: Sorry, but there was no insult in those words. There was only a blunt statement of fact. Iberia has never had possession of that territory, and has no greater claim to it now than those who inhabit it. Iberia has no real 'need' for the East Indies... just a want. The US did fine defending the Philippines while possessing only the Philippines, Iberia can as well. That's my basis in fact for my POV.


OVERALL: The CSA would support a neutral NPC nation (India, Maoria, etc) in the area taking the territory currently in dispute under it's protection until it's ready for nationhood (infrastructure properly developed). That would be the only sure way to eliminate ANY type of 'PC Power Grab' argument. The CSA would also donate some of our older protected cruisers (2-3 Little Rock class) for 'anti-piracy duty' in the new country's navy.

Who else will rise to the challenge?

[Ithekro]

OOC:

If Rohan was asked by the locals for protection and the Mark could place a force out there it would do so.  So far Rohan has only be asked to defend locals that are engaged in war between major powers (Hainam and Taiwan in this war) and Rohan suggested that the best policy would be to distance themselves from the Swiss and thus end the reason for the Middle Kingdon's rage.  With the present peace treaty placing those lands under the contol of Japan, that may have been the correct move.  Time will tell.

Note: let us say this is now July 16th.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'm inclined to "freeze" and await enlightenment on the pending "Moderatori ex Machina".  No sense in making grandoise speeches and nefarious plans if a comet's on the way in.

[Tanthalas]

Very very true

[Carthaginian]

Well, no homework tonight, so I'm passing the time.

[miketr]

OOC I agree we should wait on the Moderators if they are just going to wave a magic wand.

[Borys]

Sign on locked door:

CLOSED FOR WAND WAVIUM