New Swiss Submarine

[Desertfox]

A revolutionary new submarine using the new diesel engines. A teardrop hull shape and powerful new engines will give her an underwater speed of 12 kts. She will be equiped with cutting edge periscope and a rudimentary snorkler. 

Unfortunately this class will be one of a kind as the admirality will want bigger sea going conventional submarines, the D Class being simply advanced coastal defence subs. The snorkler being removed as uneccesary.

I know she is a bit faster than the rules allow, but since these will be a one off class and the following class will be within the rules this can be passed over.



D-1 class (1908) (5-9 planned)

Normal displacement, 290 tons, Complement 19-24.
Length (o.a.) 140', Beam 12', Draught (mean) 12'

Torpedo tubes (19.7-inch):
1 submerged (3 reloads)

Machinery: Diesel/Batteries, 500shp, 1 screws. Speed: 12kt surface, 12kt submerged. Range 2000 miles at 9 knots.

[Korpen]

A revolutionary new submarine using the new diesel engines. A teardrop hull shape and powerful new engines will give her an underwater speed of 12 kts. She will be equiped with cutting edge periscope and a rudimentary snorkler. 

Unfortunately this class will be one of a kind as the admirality will want bigger sea going conventional submarines, the D Class being simply advanced coastal defence subs. The snorkler being removed as uneccesary.

I know she is a bit faster than the rules allow, but since these will be a one off class and the following class will be within the rules this can be passed over.

D-1 class (1908) (5-9 planned)

Normal displacement, 290 tons, Complement 19-24.
Length (o.a.) 140', Beam 12', Draught (mean) 12'

Torpedo tubes (19.7-inch):
1 submerged (3 reloads)

Machinery: Diesel/Batteries, 500shp, 1 screws. Speed: 12kt surface, 12kt submerged. Range 2000 miles at 9 knots.

What is the point of high underwater speed? The extra weight from the larger engine comes at the cost of number of batteries (compared to a slower sub of the same size), and high speed eats batteries like nothing else. So you get a sub that can do 12 kts underwater for less then five minutes on fully charged batteries, and in fact have much shorter underwater endurance then a more conventional sub.

[Desertfox]

New Switzerland loves speed even in submarines. She has a snorkler so can use her diesels underwater giving her that speed. However on batteries alone she is only capable of 9kts, that being the practical limit, as the snorklers are experimental and give away her position.

[P3D]

There will not be nation-specific submarines. There will be a few types, depending on the technological level, but their characteristics will be the same. These will be based on historical examples, so you should not expect performance that would be better than WWI U-boots/submarines.

If anyone want to give it a try, they are welcome.

12kts submerged speed, snorkels are considered ahistorical so they won't happen in N-verse. No debate is necessary to discuss it, as the moderators won't change their regarding this.

[Korpen]

New Switzerland loves speed even in submarines. She has a snorkler so can use her diesels underwater giving her that speed. However on batteries alone she is only capable of 9kts, that being the practical limit, as the snorklers are experimental and give away her position.

Then the snorkel is pointless, a sub running on disels cannot use their hyrophone, so she would be running total blind, unable to see, unable to hear. Also, runing at 12 kts with snorkel is NOT recomended, not even modern subs goes so fast when snorting.

Have you read about the problems with snorts in early subs?

[Carthaginian]

I think that about 4-5 knots was top end for snorkels during WWII... the amount of pressure on those masts is INTENSE at even that speed. Stick your arm in the water while doing 12 knots sometime- it's not plesant, and your arm is made with some give in it; those pipes aren't. They will bend and break at joints or hinge points with that much speed.

Snorkels are not made to be used at CRUISING SPEEDS, much less top speeds. They are generally used when stationary or at steerageway only.

[swamphen]

Even regardless of N-verse policy there is no way that this is workable for the era.

DKB subs are historical German U-boats, tweaked where necessary to fit within the tech levels. That's all. Something like this has no place in the 1910s.

[Desertfox]

Heck Turtle had a snorkler, besides they are basiclly experimental and wont be fitted in the next sub classes. I didn't know about snorkling speeds, you learn something every day.

However the only non historical thing about this sub is its underwater speed, and even then its only 2kts above the tech level, and there is a historical precedent for it. The British R-Class was capable of 15kts underwater. This sub could be considered an early version of the Rs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_R_class_submarine
http://www.submariners.co.uk/Boats/Barrowbuilt/LHR_Class/index.htm

[Carthaginian]

If it's two knots above the tech level, that still means it's 20% above the tech level.
That's like asking to increase a 20 knot BB design to a 24 knot design.
That's asking for more than a little leeway.
That's asking to go into an entirely new performance category.

[Walter]

The Hunley, too, had a schnorkel, but if I remember it well, we already had such a discussion over on the Wesworld board. I'm not sure what P³D has in mind with the later sub levels, but I would expect that one of the late 1930s levels of the submarine would allow one to use the schnorkel on a submarine.

The British R-Class was capable of 15kts underwater. This sub could be considered an early version of the Rs.

Since the Rs are 1917 subs, I doubt anyone has the submarine technology to build a submarine like that. :)

I have to agree with Carthaginian that 20% above the tech level is way too much.

[Korpen]

The Hunley, too, had a schnorkel, but if I remember it well, we already had such a discussion over on the Wesworld board. I'm not sure what P³D has in mind with the later sub levels, but I would expect that one of the late 1930s levels of the submarine would allow one to use the schnorkel on a submarine.

Well, the first Dutch Sub to carry a "snorkel" was the O4  before 1918. But as far as i know, the Netherlands were the only navy to use snorts untill WW2.

[Walter]

I always though (and wikipedia supports this) that the Dutch invented it just before WW2 (1938).

[Korpen]

I always though (and wikipedia supports this) that the Dutch invented it just before WW2 (1938).

There is a bit about the development of the snorkel on http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/classes/class_o2.htm

[Desertfox]

But is that 20% increase actually useful? What New Switzerland needs is long legged fleet subs not high performance, short range, costal defense subs. As I stated before these are to be a one off class, the ultimate evolution of the teardrop Holland hull. Yes they are advanced but they also represent a dead end for New Switzerland. Im following a mix of British and US designs and this one would represent the R class a bit early.  Yes there will be a K class, but also note that no other US or UK sub was designed for high underwater speeds or used a schnorkler, hence no other NS sub will be so advanced.

[P3D]

There will be no one-off submarines with ahistorically hight performance either.