Orange Capital Ships - Old Thread

[P3D]

Well, the latest one in already on the slipways...

[P3D]

I tried to simulate the 4T2x13.5" Orange BB with superfiring twins, and I had to increase length and displacement by 1500-2000t to have at least 1.05 stability...

[P3D]

Orange Frigate study, to operate independently, or with the planned 29kts screening force. A torpedo bulkhead would cost 2000t displacement and would need fine tuning for the engine power and a slight speed decrease.

Orange Frigate, laid down 1912

Displacement:
   12,999 t light; 13,598 t standard; 14,792 t normal; 15,748 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 22.86 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns (4x2 guns), 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,482 lbs / 1,579 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   334.00 ft / 101.80 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   223.00 ft / 67.97 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   334.00 ft / 101.80 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.20" / 56 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 76,984 shp / 57,430 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,150 tons

Complement:
   669 - 871

Cost:
   £1.250 million / $5.001 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 435 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 3,988 tons, 27.0 %
      - Belts: 1,865 tons, 12.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 917 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,128 tons, 7.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 78 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,070 tons, 20.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,306 tons, 35.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,793 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,423 lbs / 7,903 Kg = 47.8 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.496
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.43 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (61 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.28 ft / 5.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,726 Square feet or 2,576 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 620 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Carthaginian]

Amazing what one more level of engine tech will allow one to do. :)
An interesting sign of things to come... and a frightening one.

[swamphen]

"29 knot screening force"


The Derfflingers are back on...

[Desertfox]

This looks eeirly similar to my own Phoenix design:

NSS Phoenix, New Switzerland Heavy Cruiser laid down 1909 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   13,702 t light; 14,416 t standard; 17,405 t normal; 19,796 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   597.23 ft / 590.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 29.50 ft (normal load)
   182.04 m / 179.83 m x 21.34 m  x 8.99 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns (4x2 guns), 420.00lbs / 190.51kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,496 lbs / 2,039 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140
   8 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 70,698 shp / 52,741 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,379 tons

Complement:
   756 - 984

Cost:
   £1.300 million / $5.199 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 506 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 4,263 tons, 24.5 %
      - Belts: 1,690 tons, 9.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 956 tons, 5.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,588 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,819 tons, 16.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,964 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,703 tons, 21.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,671 lbs / 10,737 Kg = 64.9 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.43 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.29 ft / 6.79 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,616 Square feet or 2,658 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 620 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.87
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

Not minding the transom stern and the freak 30' draught, the two ships are indeed similar.

[Korpen]

This looks eeirly similar to my own Phoenix design:

NSS Phoenix, New Switzerland Heavy Cruiser laid down 1909 (Engine 1912)

Too narrow belt for the exessive range, it is more then a meter between normal and deep draft, and flooding at all while close to full load will submerge her belt and make her a huge protected cruiser. She also lose exessive ammounts of speed due to it, only making a bit more then 28kts at full load.

A 10m draft will also start to limit the ports she can call on.

[P3D]

Edited after I started to draw the ship and realized that the armor and internal layout won't be good.

Orange BB laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   22,250 t light; 23,552 t standard; 25,461 t normal; 26,988 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.04 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,230.19lbs / 558.00kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 11,570 lbs / 5,248 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   207.00 ft / 63.09 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47,403 shp / 35,363 Kw = 23.20 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,436 tons

Complement:
   1,007 - 1,310

Cost:
   £2.295 million / $9.181 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,446 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 9,605 tons, 37.7 %
      - Belts: 4,529 tons, 17.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 599 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 2,483 tons, 9.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,733 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 261 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,155 tons, 8.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,844 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,211 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,788 lbs / 14,873 Kg = 26.7 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Mid (60 %):      22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
      - Stern:      13.50 ft / 4.11 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.31 ft / 6.19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,467 Square feet or 3,481 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 818 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

Looks good, except the main turret layout seems odd:

on side, evenly spread

[P3D]

That turret layout is supposed to represent wing turrets amidships.
Here's the pic.

[Ithekro]

That works for the wing turrets but it should place the forward turrets on the wings as well, in this case staggered.  Perhaps the two centerline turrets and the two mains as main and secondary positions?

[P3D]

There is three bb design here with the similar armament, and all of them uses the 'on sides, evenly spread' arrangements.

[Borys]

You made it do it!
Borys

[Tanthalas]

LOL i figured he wanted it like that.