War Emergency Ships

[Desertfox]

First up a TB destroyer, simple as that.


New Switzerland Light Cruiser laid down 1905 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   604 t light; 630 t standard; 689 t normal; 736 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   300.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 5.70 ft (normal load)
   91.44 m / 91.44 m x 9.14 m  x 1.74 m

Armament:
      5 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 130 lbs / 59 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 14.0" / 355.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,925 shp / 5,912 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 105 tons

Complement:
   66 - 87

Cost:
   £0.072 million / $0.289 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 119 tons, 17.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 108 tons, 15.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 267 tons, 38.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 196 tons, 28.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 85 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     353 lbs / 160 Kg = 26.1 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Mid (40 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.60 ft / 3.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,838 Square feet or 542 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 109 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.76
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform




***


A gunboat for shore support.


New Switzerland Gunboat laid down 1905 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   534 t light; 584 t standard; 641 t normal; 686 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   300.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 5.30 ft (normal load)
   91.44 m / 91.44 m x 9.14 m  x 1.62 m

Armament:
      2 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns in single mounts, 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 628 lbs / 285 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,840 shp / 2,864 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 102 tons

Complement:
   63 - 82

Cost:
   £0.100 million / $0.400 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 79 tons, 12.3 %
   Armour: 121 tons, 18.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 108 tons, 16.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 109 tons, 17.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 225 tons, 35.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 106 tons, 16.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     323 lbs / 147 Kg = 1.3 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.52
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 9.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (40 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.60 ft / 2.93 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 146.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,838 Square feet or 542 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 133 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.74
      - Overall: 0.52
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

Doesn't make sense to go with all-oil firing on these ships - you continue to have (as far as I know) no secure sources of oil.  They should be at least 50/50, so you can make use of whatever fuel happens to be handy.

Both types carry entirely too many guns for their size - despite what the SS reports may say. 

[Ithekro]

True.  Never bet on winning a war you just started and then plan to use captured good for all your new products.  Especially when it is not going according to plan within two months.

[Borys]

not ... enough .... deckspace ...
and the second design is just wrong - the 8 inchers with mounts should weight some 100 tons

[P3D]

SS2 does not take deck mount weight correctly. Try to sim the same ship in SS3 and you'll see the difference.

[Desertfox]

Hmm, gains only 10 tons going 50/50 so will do.

As for deckspace my other planned cruisers have 2x6" and 4x4" on just 20ft longer, 2ft wider. Those are 3" guns which require less space. There is plenty of deck space above. Also the first design has 14" torpedoes not the bigger 18". Basiclly the more guns the better.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1082.0

As for the second design, the Germans stuffed a 12" gun on an even smaller ship.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=860.0

[swamphen]

That was based on a historical Italian WW1-era boat...that was just simmable with some almost-crippling compromises.

I agree on the deckspace issue. The first should be cut to just the 5x3" and the second lose all its 3". I wonder if there's really room for 21-knot machinery in that one as well.

[Desertfox]

Quick and dirty drawings of both ships.  The first one is perfectly viable in terms of deckspace, the second one does have too many 3", and might have problems with the 8" guns.

[The Rock Doctor]

Foxy:  Find me one ship of similar characteristics:  nine guns, 25 knots, and four torpedoes on 600 t.  Then I'll agree it's viable. 

The notion that the ship has "excellent" room for accommodation and working space is crazy.

[Desertfox]

Closest I can find is the USS Paulding class, 5x3", 6x18" TT, 29.5kts, 800 tons. Engine weight accounts for 300 of those extra tons.

I don't think very many ships where designed for the expressed purpose of blasting huge numbers of torpedo boats in mine field waters. Then I don't believe the 'Excellent' label either, that's mainly a function of torpedoes vs dimensions.

http://www.wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=1872&sid=91654f436c26c96cdc8ad913695eb293

[Desertfox]

How's this (instead of #2)? A simple gunboat with a light 8" gun foward. Same hull as the MPs.

New Switzerland Gunboat laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   241 t light; 266 t standard; 305 t normal; 337 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   220.00 ft / 220.00 ft x 22.00 ft x 4.70 ft (normal load)
   67.06 m / 67.06 m x 6.71 m  x 1.43 m

Armament:
      1 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns in single mounts, 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 296 lbs / 134 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2,675 shp / 1,996 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 72 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   36 - 47

Cost:
   £0.050 million / $0.199 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 37 tons, 12.1 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 2.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 74 tons, 24.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 113 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 65 tons, 21.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     119 lbs / 54 Kg = 0.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.49
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 9.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (35 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   5.00 ft / 1.52 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m before break)
      - Stern:      5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Average freeboard:   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,002 Square feet or 279 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 54 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 111 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.05
      - Overall: 0.54
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[The Rock Doctor]

Unnecessarily fast and long-legged for a coastal bombardment vessel.  She's not going to outrun a lot of things that can kill her, and with a freeboard so low, she's not going on extended open-ocean cruises. 

The deck space doesn't immediately bring tears to my eyes, so that's a start.

[Desertfox]

Speed is neccesary as Sulu Sea showed.

On second thought the drawing for #2 looked pathetic so #3

CS Strenght up to 0.75, less guns.

New Switzerland Gunboat laid down 1905 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   590 t light; 644 t standard; 710 t normal; 763 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   270.00 ft / 270.00 ft x 27.00 ft x 7.10 ft (normal load)
   82.30 m / 82.30 m x 8.23 m  x 2.16 m

Armament:
      2 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns in single mounts, 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 636 lbs / 289 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 105

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 4,144 shp / 3,091 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 119 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   68 - 89

Cost:
   £0.107 million / $0.428 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 81 tons, 11.4 %
   Armour: 98 tons, 13.8 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 85 tons, 11.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 131 tons, 18.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 276 tons, 38.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 120 tons, 16.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     386 lbs / 175 Kg = 1.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.480
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (31 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (40 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Stern:      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:   8.87 ft / 2.70 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 145.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,569 Square feet or 425 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 188 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.75
      - Longitudinal: 1.16
      - Overall: 0.78
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

How's this (instead of #2)? A simple gunboat with a light 8" gun foward. Same hull as the MPs.

What's the point of a 21kts gun barge?
The 20cm gun is useless in a sea battle (with a rof of at best one round  per two minutes), and it just make her more expensive then necessary.

And the ships will be horribly vulnerable with several tons of exposed cordite on deck.

[Ithekro]

Well a Coastal battleship of any type would suffer if they got caught like in the Sulu Sea.  They were engaged in a job they were not suited.  A coastal battleship is suppose to be a defensive warship, not a patrol boat in hostile waters.  Blockade ship maybe.  And in the case you stated, a speed of 17 knots would have been enough to slowly get away.

A Gunboat of this type would be useful in harbor defense, maybe riverine duty, and bombardment, after the enemy fleet has been neutralized.  She would not make a good combatant in the age of dreadnoughts.  She would also make a lousy cruiser since she has too few powerful guns to make a differance against most other cruisers.  Sure it is possible to defeat an opponent with this vessel, it is just unlikely.  (I once was involved in a game where I was using the historical Chinese cruisers from the Sino-Japanese War...very small, only three or four lighter guns.  In a night action in a harbor, they actually I engaged five Russian and American cruisers and effectively drove them off (loosing two of by four ships) by hitting them at close range and getting lucky with criticals the entire game.  The four ships I had were the worst ships in the game fighting the cream of the Russian protected cruisers and some American armored cruisers.)