French battlecruiser???

[Tanthalas]

ok its a true BC now paper armor...

[Korpen]

The Exchequer got an heart attac from the pricetag on the first designs.  The 21 12" gunned version was liked most.
As it isn't a Battleship, most $ was saved by removing armor.

Agin, aheum, French Turret Farm laid down 1910

Displacement:
   28.615 t light; 30.160 t standard; 33.017 t normal; 35.303 t full load

Armament:
      21 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (7x3 guns), 837,76lbs / 380,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      22 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 81,57lbs / 37,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,00" / 203 mm   469,16 ft / 143,00 m   12,86 ft / 3,92 m
   Ends:   3,00" / 76 mm   252,60 ft / 76,99 m   12,86 ft / 3,92 m
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   469,16 ft / 143,00 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

I have some doubts that all the turrets will fit inside the belt length.
A triple 30cm gun have a barbarette with of about 10m, so half the belt length is taken up with barbarettes,  at least three gun need on-deck clearance, so that is at least 30 m more. Add a minimal space between the barbarettes that are mounted together and you need maybe 10m more. This gives you at best 30m for superstructure, funnels and 32 casemates with guns.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Or VERY cramped turrets. With low ROF.
BTW - on that displacement I've got seven twins.
Borys

[Walter]

Well that's the problem with above deck casemates. If they were below deck, you'd only have to worry about placing the superstructure and funnels. :)

I think that the BC of 0.517 is a bit low for a ship with 7 triple turrets.

BTW - on that displacement I've got seven twins.

True. With the same speed and better armor. The lack of a TBH is a bit worrying for a ship of that size.

[Sachmle]

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41.386 lbs / 18.773 Kg = 47,8 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 4,3 torpedoes

Kinda says it all, though.

[maddox]

Sheer size does matter. :)

I would have liked a higher block coefficient, and more beam. But alas, 6-1 L/B ratio is what was asked. And 23 KTS is slow enough to get a battlecreeper. (one of the nicknames of Agincourt)

On barbettes, beam and tripple turrets. Several pre WO I ships had 12" tripples on a narrower hull. Like the Viribus Unitis class.
Doesn't make for the must survivable ships, but those were dreadnaughts, not battlecruisers.

[Walter]

Kinda says it all, though.

Well...

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

.. and with armor that thin, need I say more?
... Okay I will say more. Ever thought that when getting into a fight with another 12 inch armed vessel, every hit the "Agin, aheum" will receive from those 12 inch guns will be a penetrating hit, regardless of range? I'm probably exagerating but quite a few will be penetrating hits.

On barbettes, beam and tripple turrets. Several pre WO I ships had 12" tripples on a narrower hull. Like the Viribus Unitis class

I don't think beam was the problem. The problem was fitting all those guns on the deck and then be able to protect them by a main belt that is 143,00 meters long or fitting all those guns on the hull so that they will be protected by the 143 meters long main armor belt and no longer having space to fit anything else between the turrets.

[Sachmle]

Quote
Kinda says it all, though.
Well...

Quote
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
.. and with armor that thin, need I say more?
... Okay I will say more. Ever thought that when getting into a fight with another 12 inch armed vessel, every hit the "Agin, aheum" will receive from those 12 inch guns will be a penetrating hit, regardless of range? I'm probably exagerating but quite a few will be penetrating hits.

That was the point.

[Walter]

...

I was under the impression you were referring to the amazing amount of shell punishment the ship could take (the advantage of that big beam).

[maddox]

Now the main question is, what 12" armed vessel wants to close up with her?

A steel rain is a welcoming action.

[Sachmle]

Anyone w/ 13.5 or 14" would outrange her and start making Lorraine Swiss cheese out of the hull.

[Walter]

I don't mind throwing my 10" armed Hiei Special from Wesworld against the "Agin, aheum". By the time the steel rain comes down, the Hiei will no longer be there. :D
... 12,000 tons lighter that "Agin, aheum"...
... 13.5 knots faster than "Agin, aheum"...

[Walter]

Anyone w/ 13.5 or 14" would outrange her and start making Lorraine Swiss cheese out of the hull.

I was thinking about the same thing and with some good armor and staying at a respectable distance (about 12-15,000 yards), none of the 12 inch rounds will be able to get through the armor of the 13.5"/14" armed battleship while the "Agin, aheum" will have absolutely no immunity zone against the 13.5"/14" guns.

[Tanthalas]

Its french is it suposed to be logical?

[Walter]

In my eyes it is not logical of the French to attempt to be British and attempt to have one of their ships do an immitation of HMS Hood. :)