Since this is coming up frequently, let's get a definitive sense of the board's mood.

I would like to note that, while I fully expect to be shouted down by a crusade of fanatic historical purists, the ability to apply Crimson Skies conceptualizations to the planes and airships of Navalism would make me squee like a little schoolgirl.

Quote from: Valles on November 19, 2009, 07:29:28 PM
I would like to note that, while I fully expect to be shouted down by a crusade of fanatic historical purists, the ability to apply Crimson Skies conceptualizations to the planes and airships of Navalism would make me squee like a little schoolgirl.

Allow me to be the first of those fanatic historical purists.  >:(

I think the notion of "Squee" alarms me more than anything else he said.

Agreed :D

I am of the opinion that how advanced that aircraft in Nverse get should be dictated by what use they see. I see no reasoning for airplane tech to advance just for the sake of advancing if no one does anything w/ them to lead to said advancement. Until the use of Aircraft for anything other than scouting and dropping hand grenades on troops (Thanks for that BTW Logi, my infantry REALLY appreciated that  :P) there is no reason for tech to advance. I know that's not how tech works, and it would be overly complex....but if people would just BE REALISTIC and not use HINDSIGHT for once.

Well the reason for RRC decision to advance in this field is for one reason primarily. It is cheap and in great numbers. (I don't know, might also be that I generally don't like airships).

Don't worry Sachmle, the limited success of this "dropping hand grenades on troops" has compelled the RRC to devote an entire class of aircraft to the cause. So you may get heavy short cannons firing on your troops next time. (Hmm.. hand grenades and hull mounted MGs worked well; let's put on a bigger gun and hurt them with it...)

What can I say? The low cost is very nice. ;)

But yes, I am of the same opinion as Sachmle.

While I do have a quite active sense of shame, I see no reason for it to apply to this topic. ^_^

Despite my CS fanboyism, the Maori aren't and aren't likely to be listed on the 'world leaders' board for aviation, among other reasons because their technical establishment is deeply wedded to a fairly unsuitable type of power train. Where automobile and other 'small engine' applications in the real world at this point in time were still fighting it out between steam, gasoline, and various other engine types, a lot of players have been simply assuming that the answer was in favor of the approach that didn't win out historically until considerably later.

I can't say I honestly care about that, since at the moment, and for as long as I'm play them, the Maori use small steam engines for those purposes... which, once you include condensers and water tankage and so-on alongside the boiler and actual engine, are going to be, at best, comparable to diesels for weight purposes.

In character-vs-hindsight terms, the development of AA-grade weapons by the Maori military is an outgrowth of an existing and ongoing line of research into increased rate of fire for all weapons, from 10mm machine guns to 380mm battleship cannon, and the airplane program, while interesting and absolutely on the 'eventually' list, simply has lower prioritization in the (irritatingly, irrationally) rule-limited research budget.

Where to begin....

Historically their is a US Admiral who purchased pattens for an Ariel dropped Torpedo and was working on plans to get a plane to carry it in 1912.  The Plan was to suplement the US Costal Batteries with Swarms of torpedo carrying aircraft.  Unfortunately this Admiral faced mandatory retirement in 1913 I believe.

The Empire of Italia views LAND BASED airpower both for reconsiance and for Anti Shipping as the cost effective method of securing its coastline  in the Mediteranian and the Rift Sea and Indian Oceans.

The Italian interest in Carriers is limited at the moment to wanting to put a scout plane on its scout cruisers.

This desire for Scout Aircraft and Land Based Airpower is all based on the Size of the Empire.  The Empire is as large as many other nations but it is not particulairly wealthy.   As an Example Italia will soon reach the limit to its BP Expansion.  I will have to build 4 IC before I can build any more BP after HY1 1919 :)

So because the Empire cannot build 38K Ton Battle Cruisers to use as scouts the Empire has to find a cheaper way of accomplishing the same tasks that the larger more Industrial nations are doing with larger ships.   To this end the Empire is trying to develop smaller short range radio's for use in Twin Engined and then Single Engined Aircraft.  Transmission of up to 1 miles in single engined aircraft was accomplished in 1918 Historicaly.

Charles

I am not a history purist, but definately an aviation fanatic. If anything I would say keep it as is, aircraft progress as historical, which is ahistorical to begin with, but easy to keep track of.

Well I doubt its a shock how I voted :)  I'm far more interested in warships and how they interact than in planes.


Bavaria generally looks at them as cheap armed scouts.  So far they are concentrated on a handful of large airfields, but I've started expanding the network. There is also one seaplane base to patrol the northern Adriatic. Use of them for strafing battlefield rear areas, artillery spotting and dropping rude things has also been considered. For that matter, so has landing commandos and launching torpedoes (ala Seimans)  by Zeppelin.

However, the most recent exploit was aerial photo mapping of the Kingdom- which worked much better than the 1903 attempt with Pigeons or subsequent attempts with rockets.

As for the future, as the cruisers get more sea experience, the limited horizon will be a good reason for scout planes, and I may field a Takao-like cruiser.  Carriers will be a long way off.

In relation to Valles's comment on small engines- I'm using diesels and other IC over steam for several reasons, one of which was that for a flicker of time I had the 1914 ICE tech and was comparatively advanced at ICE. Another is my industry and historical people are far better known for IC engines than steam plants.  Lastly...without the penalties and bonus, they work just as good as steam here.

At one time DKB had probably the largest, or at least close to it, airship fleet in Navalism (v3 or course, v2 was an entirely different story from what I've heard). However we've (I've) fallen behind in building new ones and new hangers for them. This will stop soon enough. We (I) have invested in 2 airfields, 1 in Dar-es-Salaam and a new 1 in Sarawak. Both are at the extreme range of DKB holdings and are surrounded by not-so-friendly people. An additional airfield is likely for Hai Phong, especially considering how effective (for 1916-17) the RRC's aircraft were in disrupting supply lines. As of right now DKB views aircraft as a means to an end. They are cheaper than airships, but have limited range and loiter time. They offer limited ground attack (strafing, dropping grenades, etc.) that airships lack due to their higher service ceiling. We foresee a mix of the two types for some time. Airships are better scouts, but aircraft can get in closer and augment the airships. They can also damage enemy airships and harass their forces for limited time/effect. We do not see them having any effect whatsoever on naval matters other than scouting functions once a suitable sea launched aircraft has been designed (working on seaplane tech ATM). Being much smaller than an airship we think that a few of these floating airplanes could be carried by a small tender type vessel and allow the hochseeflotte an extended horizon and allow tracking of enemy vessels as they come into the radius of these aircraft. This information would allow our forces to set proper angles for battle and perhaps catch the enemy off guard and even cross their T. As to offensive potential, perhaps some time in the future as the technology matures aircraft will be able to carry small HE shells to drop on enemy positions.

A better question is how do aircraft of whatever generation interact with ships, ground units and other air units.  I suggest we come up with some type of generic system to use, like the Army rating systems or perhaps the sub chart.  Aircraft would need more detail than subs though I think.

The only thing I don't like right now is the aircraft tech tree. It is very jerkish and doesn't allow smooth progression of aircraft types. I would like it to be were when you reach a certain level you can just use planes from that year, so you dont have to be refering back to the tech tree to know what planes you can build.

I'll agree with Mike, and even continue it to air to air combat. Granted, more often then not, a 'superior' plane will win, but sometimes it's all about pilot skill (Which would be hard to rate here) and luck (hard to rate anywhere).