TLDR;

Complete 2 Colonial IC

Complete 1932 Aircraft Carrier Arch

Begin Orion-Class Carrier Scorpius
Begin Uhlan Mk3-Class Cruiser Scout
Build 3 x 500t Submarine
Begin Tuna Mk2-Class Fleet Replenishment Ship Amberjack

The ABG4100 is only 1/4 larger than the ABG3000, but has 50% more firepower, and armor.
I would think it would be worth having fewer hulls with that better capacity.

Fast gunboat, a kind of heavy destroyer...

AGB3000, Byzantine Empire AGB3000 laid down 1935

Displacement:
   3 000 t light; 3 128 t standard; 3 413 t normal; 3 641 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (490,72 ft / 485,56 ft) x 48,56 ft x (11,41 / 11,94 ft)
   (149,57 m / 148,00 m) x 14,80 m  x (3,48 / 3,64 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 417 lbs / 189 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      1,38" / 35 mm
   4th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   1,38" / 35 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1,38" / 35 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 35 533 shp / 26 508 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 514 tons

Complement:
   223 - 290

Cost:
   £1,467 million / $5,869 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 119 tons, 3,5 %
      - Guns: 119 tons, 3,5 %
   Armour: 560 tons, 16,4 %
      - Armament: 34 tons, 1,0 %
      - Armour Deck: 520 tons, 15,2 %
      - Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 1 009 tons, 29,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 206 tons, 35,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 413 tons, 12,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 106 tons, 3,1 %
      - Hull below water: 15 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 58 tons
      - Above deck: 33 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 410 lbs / 1 547 Kg = 31,8 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 13,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,444 / 0,453
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15,00 %,  24,28 ft / 7,40 m,  19,36 ft / 5,90 m
      - Forward deck:   35,50 %,  19,36 ft / 5,90 m,  15,09 ft / 4,60 m
      - Aft deck:   35,50 %,  15,09 ft / 4,60 m,  12,80 ft / 3,90 m
      - Quarter deck:   14,00 %,  12,80 ft / 3,90 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:      16,08 ft / 4,90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 199,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 14 966 Square feet or 1 390 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 276 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,73
      - Longitudinal: 0,95
      - Overall: 0,75
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
25t for Long Range Marconi
12t for top mast rangefinder - FC1924
OD
32t for 2x4TTx533HW
10t for Night Fighting
6t for 30x195kg DC
10t reserved for new materials, armaments
AW
climatisation
BW
15t for enhanced hydrophone

Byzantine is going to scrapp old PDN Uparty & Nieustra, Laid down in 1899 & refurb. in 1925.
These old hulls have received 254 & 152 Mlle 1925 guns. These guns, not too old, can be mounted on gunboats or colonial cruisers to strengthen the Colonial Fleets...

Uparty - Nieustra


Armament:
      4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 500,01lbs / 226,80kg shells, 105 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 500,01lbs / 226,80kg shells, 105 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     ...

The interwar B-65 that the IJN looked at building was late 1930s, but aimed at the same goals I think would appeal to Foxy - big and fast enough to catch my cruisers and my Armored Cruisers, but uncatchable by my battlewagons. Having the foe field ships that can hunt down my lighter units easily would be annoying.


The B-65 supposedly had :

                                       

Type:	Super Type A cruiser
Displacement:	Standard: 31,905 t (31,401 long tons)[1]
Full-load: 35,000 t (34,000 long tons)
Length:	240 m (790 ft) length at the waterline[1]
246.2 m (808 ft) length overall[1]
Beam:	27.2 m (89 ft)[1]
Draft:	8.8 m (29 ft) (trial)[1]
Propulsion:	Four sets of geared turbines and eight Kampon boilers would yield 170,000 metric horsepower (167,674 shaft horsepower); this would have been able to drive the ship at 34 kn (39 mph; 63 km/h)[1]
Endurance:	8,000 mi (13,000 km) at 18 kn (21 mph; 33 km/h)[1]
Armament:	9 × 310 mm (12.2 in)/50 caliber guns (3×3)[1]
16 × 100 mm (3.9 in)/65 caliber dual-purpose guns (8×2)[1]
12 × 25 mm (0.98 in) anti-aircraft guns (6×2)[1]
4 × 13 mm (0.51 in) machine guns (2×2)[1]
8 × 610 mm (24 in) torpedo tubes (4×2)[1]
Armor:	Sources do not give any specifics outside of a 190 mm (7.5 in) side belt sloped at 20° and 125 mm (4.9 in) deck[1]

The Brits thought 2-3 knots margin of speed was needed to ensure a usable speed advantage. For Foxy that would be 31-33 knots over my 29knot and 30knot cruisers.

Presuming he made the first class in 1924-26, they would be 31+ knots,
but once the Royal Nisseans came out they would need to be 32+ knots.

Mid - late 1920s, it would be very expensive tonnage wise to drive a ship that fast.
The Romans showed it's doable with their fast big ships. The 33-34knots the IJN was looking at are probably not feasible at this time frame.

Overall I think he would try to minimize tonnage, and try to keep speed and guns over armor.
So 31-32 knots, but less deck armor, say 4", but perhaps down to 2.5-3" as he'd simply plan on
not fighting my battlewagons, so that would drop the deck armor needed. I don't think he'd drop much below because he'd be looking to what was needed against divebombers years ahead. 

The Zemaka class and rearming the Asbara would have given me something to oppose these,
so late 1920s / Early 1930s the 2nd batch of B-65s would seem likely, adding speed and perhaps a little deck armor.

I think I had forgotten about the Koloni class being 381mm, I think of them all as 343mm. 

But yes, those have long been a consideration for me. They are part of why I have bothered to rebuild my older BBs & DNs. That and I think they can stand in battle vs. NPCs and the IJN.

I'd like to build more of my Frawar class BBs to do the same role. But I built 1...and scrapped 2 Tortoise BBs.

Looking at my available BP in 1935, and more as the Xiyons complete, I may lay down 3-4 hulls,
one of which may be a Frawar.

For info:

Quote... Oh and the 'Colonial Battleships' with 300mm belts...

Byzantine Colonial 24kts BBs are:

Atlantique    BB9    Koloni - Kumkoy - 2T3x381
Atlantique    BB4    Alexander - Leonidas - 8x343
Atlantique    BB4    Pericles - Constantin - 8x343
Australia     BB3    Kilkis - Lemnos - 6x343
Madagascar    BB7    Kalin - Kurnaz - 6x343

Old PDNs with 254/45 guns are nearly all scrapped.

The following is a long document I wrote mainly for myself, considering the design foes and goals for my next ACs .

Comments/corrections/observations are welcome.

In 1935 I am continuing work on a wide variety of ships,
and coming close to finishing my 3rd & 4th "Light Armored Cruiser".

The category that seems to need help is the standard 'armored cruiser' or 'heavy armored cruiser'.

Big enough to quickly and decisively beat cruisers, fast enough to be hard to chase down,
and small & cheap enough that they can be risked outside the layers of protection around a battleline.
These are the scout squadrons, the skirmishers, the detached mission ships.

The question is ...what to design against?

Japan's fleet is hard to tell.

So I could see versions of the 'Amagi' design and particularly the B-65 design being built.

The B-65 seems perfectly suited for an asymmetric approach, armed with 3T3 310mm, a 180mm belt and 125mm deck, and 33knts.

That ship could choose to engage or not engage any part of my fleet, it's 310mm guns will be superior to my AC's 255mm and it's deck would be fairly proof against even my battleline at range. Foxy might have gone with the 105mm deck of his last battleships as he wasnt' keen on armor, but 105mm would also future proof it against dive bombers so I can see him spending that tonnage.


From what Tac's shared, and what I saw of Foxy's designs and statements, an asymmetrical fleet would be his goal. He seemed to want to pick a fight with Parthia. I can't see him investing in a bunch of big slow battlewagons- Japan lacks the BP to compete there. A limited number of big heavy ships fast enough to avoid mine or choose to fight at range, and a great deal of smaller ships meant for night and torpedo actions. All of which would be expected to work with his carriers once he got them.

The torpedo attack role is difficult, at range the hit % drops dramatically. As the doc on NavWeaps demonstrates, in WW2 the IJN did not achieve a good enough hit rate to have made their warplan viable. The hit % gets even worse if the earliest battles where the 'long lance' was not suspected are eliminated. You need lots of ships, lots of torpedoes, night time and speed to get in close.  Which Parthia has tried to make very hard to do, and then Parthian ships can soak up a lot of torpedoes.



The Byzantines Heavy Armored Cruisers have not really been replaced and are ageing.
They have made a pair of 29 knot full-size battleships, but if those are put as scouts or heavy support, the existing Stormbringer class should still suffice to stiffen the skirmish lines. Between the Byzantine and Roman ships, the Parthians may wind up building some 30knot battlewagons to compete.

The Romans are expected to support the Byzantines in a conflict due to a presumed secret part of the Malta treaty.  It's a bit hard to tell what the Roman fleet would be,
but it looks like Snip's aiming for a speed around 30 knots- he tends to overshoot.
240mm guns+cruiser protection for the ACs and 340mm + battleline protection for the BCs- really fast battleships.

Analysis :
To keep the Byzantines/Romans from running my ships down I will need 30-31 knots.
To CATCH them, I need 33 or so.
The Japanese B-65 type would be 32-33 knots, so I'm not catching or getting away from that. I just have to beat it.

Deck hits really don't matter
Belt hits vs. the cruiser proof armor of the Romans and Japanese are valid. Ironically vs. an IJN Night attack, most hits would be vs. belts

The question is what it takes to penetrate battleline level armor...and that's really big guns that drive the costs way up, at which point the ship can't be purchased in great numbers, and is a bit too valuable to risk.

So I need guns that can kill the B-65 (180mm), a 1926B (165mm) or a Respublica clone (240mm), or perhaps even an Eupatoria (320mm) style follow on design. The 37,000 ton Konias are fast battleships. Then there's the variety of Byzantine 6x343  AC designs with ~200-230mm belts. Oh and the 'Colonial Battleships' with 300mm belts.


There's 3 guns under consideration for this
The 333L43  has quite a lot of 'punch', and would work on everything except the Konia, and even them at reasonable fighting ranges.

The 300L47 was developed as a hedge. It has about 20mm more belt penetration than the 265mm at most ranges. Deck penetration is 28% better, but there won't be penetrations under ~25km, and the hit rate from 25-30km is expected to be low enough that it would not be decisive.

The 265mm gun was hoped to be the next ACR gun. To get the shell weight/penetration desired had to move up from the 255mm.
Granted, it can only punch through Byzantine/Roman battleline belt armor at night time combat ranges, but I am not looking for my ACs to fight BBs. They could close to range and fight the Byzantine Colonial Battleships.

Against their intended foes - other 'ACs' and Cruisers – such as a Hypothecal B-65, they should be able to punch through their AC belts under ~23km, and start penetrating decks beyond that.


4 x 31,000 = 124,000 tons if the IJN has 4 x B-65.
= 4.3 Dahae "R"
= 5.2 Zambag VIII
= 6.5 Zemaka II

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 13, 2024, 05:19:39 AMArgh.

Alright, those two new IC won't be starting after all.

Pretty much sums up the first time I hit that problem...

Argh.

Alright, those two new IC won't be starting after all.