Quote from: TacCovert4 on October 18, 2024, 04:22:45 PMHow will they match up against "HMS Courageous but with more HMS Courageous"?  I'm working on a ship design with Foxy's input.....and that's the direction he's going for a carrier escort capital ship.

No clue, I'd have to see it.
I was guessing he'd go fast and light, which is why I was looking at the B-65 and Dutch 1047.
The problem with HMS Courageous is even my existing 215mm-255mm ACs can kill it most of the time.

4 Barrels has a substantial FC penalty without aerial spotting, and even with, that's a low max ROF.
Now if you are far enough out, ROF declines so you can adjust. But that ship doesn't have a ton of deck armor either.

Overall, guessing fairly darn well, as they are nearly the same speed, but with twice the barrels and higher ROF, so they would punch many many holes in HMS Courageous armor before it got a any hits. They would both punch right through each other, so more holes the better.

The 'Heavy Armored Cruiser' designs would just dominate an HMS Courageous style ship, though they outweigh it.   I will probably post one of those 4 designs once I decide which is best suited for my needs.

But it might be a good reason to delay my making a decision.

How will they match up against "HMS Courageous but with more HMS Courageous"?  I'm working on a ship design with Foxy's input.....and that's the direction he's going for a carrier escort capital ship.

This would be the Zambag XV

Same armor scheme as a Zemaka, so meant to take on cruisers and armored cruisers, not battlecruisers/fast battleships.

The 300mm gun is an overweight shell with lower MV, so the belt penetration is similar to the 265mm, but the deck penetration is much better. While it still can't penetrate most battleship's deck armor, it can penetrate anything else.

Overall, a better gun than the 265mm, and again with a large magazine for sustained long range fire.

BUT...this won't kill cruisers or armored cruisers much better than the Zemaka III,
and it's protection level means it can not take on the BCs/BBs.

So I'd be paying 3000 tons more for a ship that does pretty much exactly the same task, and has 80% of the range.

QuoteZambag XV, Parthian Heavy Armored Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
   23,000 t light; 24,889 t standard; 27,839 t normal; 30,200 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (617.62 ft / 610.24 ft) x 88.58 ft (Bulges 95.14 ft) x (30.18 / 32.31 ft)
   (188.25 m / 186.00 m) x 27.00 m (Bulges 29.00 m)  x (9.20 / 9.85 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.81" / 300 mm 49.0 cal guns - 1,080.27lbs / 490.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 47.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 360 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 1.72lbs / 0.78kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x 2 row quad mounts on side ends, majority forward
      6 raised mounts
     2 x 2 row quad mounts layout not set
      2 double raised mounts
      32 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     16 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 10,087 lbs / 4,575 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   396.65 ft / 120.90 m   16.67 ft / 5.08 m
   Ends:   1.38" / 35 mm   213.55 ft / 65.09 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.24" / 57 mm   396.65 ft / 120.90 m   27.82 ft / 8.48 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 68.90 ft / 21.00 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.35" / 9 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   23.29 ft / 7.10 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      8.27" / 210 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 4.22" / 107 mm
   Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 2.56" / 65 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.27" / 210 mm, Aft 1.38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 136,742 shp / 102,009 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 8,184nm at 18.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,311 tons

Complement:
   1,076 - 1,400

Cost:
   £11.097 million / $44.386 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,033 tons, 7.3 %
      - Guns: 2,033 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 7,183 tons, 25.8 %
      - Belts: 2,111 tons, 7.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 916 tons, 3.3 %
      - Bulges: 124 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 1,081 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,760 tons, 9.9 %
      - Conning Towers: 191 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,885 tons, 14.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,225 tons, 33.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,839 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 674 tons, 2.4 %
      - Hull below water: 69 tons
      - Bulge void weights: 170 tons
      - Hull above water: 56 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 65 tons
      - Above deck: 314 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,523 lbs / 17,474 Kg = 46.8 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.556 / 0.563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.41 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  27.56 ft / 8.40 m,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Forward deck:   32.50 %,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m,  24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Aft deck:   32.50 %,  24.93 ft / 7.60 m,  24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  24.93 ft / 7.60 m,  24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      25.33 ft / 7.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,877 Square feet or 3,612 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 842 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.23
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

The lightest of the Zambag efforts.


 
                    3      5                7
                    (b)   (d)           (f)
A   (1) [a]                                z  (6)  Y
                    (c)   (e)           (g) 
                    2      4               6

Armor :

Belt
Inclined Waterline Main belt is backed by a protective deck, the TDS, and then the magazine box.

Inclined belt :
+2.8 to -2.1m
4.9m/ Cos (15) = 5.07285= 5.08

Math :
180 + 35*1.5/2 + 57/2 + 65/2

Waterline
Magazines : 267mm + incline
Machinery : 232mm + incline


Deck

1780t    35/65/65mm Armored Deck
  813t      0/35/0mm   Protective Splinter Deck
  167t         65mm      Magazine Box - meets bottom of protective deck
------
2,760t needed

2,760t paid

Vertical
Magazines : 133mm
Machinery : 83mm


MISC :
170t- Reserve wt.

AD :
204t  FC 1930
25t   LR radio
0t     SR Radio
10t   RDF/Jammer
25t   Hulesmeyer
25t   Air Search Radar
25t   Searchlight tower (NF)

OD :
5t - Paravanes
10t - 2x Catapults on stern
50t - 2x Floatplanes on stern


HAW :
10t - Hanger in stern
23t - CO2 Air compressor A/C
23t - Extra Fire Extinguishers

HBW :
23t - Extra Pumps
31t - Auxiliary Diesel Generator power 500ke
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones
 
Decks
7.6m : Forecastle
5.20  : Weather
2.80  : Battery,  Top Main belt, Armored Deck
0.40  : Main deck, splinter protective deck, top TDS
-2.1   : 2nd deck.   Bottom Main Belt
-4.6   : 1st Platform deck
-6.1   : Engineering
-8.08 : Double bottom
-9.20 : Keel

So this is the 'Zemaka III' from the above table.

The key of moving from 255mm to 265mm was that with the new tech I could fire a shell weighing the same as a 12" shell, but with a 10.5" cross-section. 

I provided a very high number of shells for the main guns. You'll see that on the Zambag as well.
I am concerned that if ships try to fight at very long ranges, the 'to hit' % will be very low.
As I expect it is divided between AP, SAP and HE shells, a long battle with low hit rate might run me low in a shell size.
The other aspect is if these ships are sent on individual runs, they may have to fight more than one battle.

Overall a design choice I'm still debating.

I think the 1/4 more range at higher speed is 'worth' 750 tons.
Granted that's 1,250tons more than the Zemaka I, which is not desirable. That's a destroyer.

The II ships 3500t fuel oil, the III has 5973t, that additional hull volume also giving more floatation adn >5.0 torpedoes.

QuoteZemaka III, Parthian Armored Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
   19,750 t light; 21,237 t standard; 24,555 t normal; 27,210 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (617.53 ft / 610.24 ft) x 78.74 ft (Bulges 85.30 ft) x (30.18 / 32.90 ft)
   (188.22 m / 186.00 m) x 24.00 m (Bulges 26.00 m)  x (9.20 / 10.03 m)

Armament:
      8 - 10.43" / 265 mm 49.0 cal guns - 747.37lbs / 339.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 47.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 360 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 1.72lbs / 0.78kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x 2 row quad mounts on side ends, majority forward
      6 raised mounts
     2 x 2 row quad mounts layout not set
      2 double raised mounts
      32 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     16 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 7,080 lbs / 3,211 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   396.65 ft / 120.90 m   16.99 ft / 5.18 m
   Ends:   1.38" / 35 mm   213.55 ft / 65.09 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.24" / 57 mm   396.65 ft / 120.90 m   28.97 ft / 8.83 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.35" / 9 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   23.29 ft / 7.10 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 255 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      8.27" / 210 mm
   2nd:   2.56" / 65 mm   1.38" / 35 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 4.20" / 107 mm
   Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 2.56" / 65 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.09" / 180 mm, Aft 1.38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 124,468 shp / 92,853 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 10,142nm at 18.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,973 tons

Complement:
   980 - 1,275

Cost:
   £9.014 million / $36.056 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,474 tons, 6.0 %
      - Guns: 1,474 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 6,617 tons, 26.9 %
      - Belts: 2,116 tons, 8.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 954 tons, 3.9 %
      - Bulges: 124 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armament: 846 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,422 tons, 9.9 %
      - Conning Towers: 154 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 3,536 tons, 14.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,587 tons, 30.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,805 tons, 19.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 537 tons, 2.2 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Bulge void weights: 116 tons
      - Hull above water: 48 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 65 tons
      - Above deck: 258 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,601 lbs / 15,695 Kg = 60.9 x 10.4 " / 265 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.547 / 0.556
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  27.23 ft / 8.30 m,  26.57 ft / 8.10 m
      - Forward deck:   44.00 %,  26.57 ft / 8.10 m,  25.92 ft / 7.90 m
      - Aft deck:   21.00 %,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      23.29 ft / 7.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,263 Square feet or 3,183 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 747 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.95
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

The Zemaka II is the follow on to the 'Zemaka' aka 'Storm Winds' class.



Weaponry :

The 265L49 gu9n fires a 339kg shell at 850mps - that's as fast  as I'll allow for large guns
as real life guns over this were generally derated becuase they stripped their rifling.
A slightly lower limit could be argued for, but as I run alot of the battles, I want to give player designs the benefit of the doubt. The guns could always be derated in service to ~825mps
if the 'game master' felt that was the maximum reasonable.

The shell weight is about that of a 12" shell, but with a smaller cross section, so less wind drag and more Kinetic Energy at impact. This gives very good belt penetration.

The deck penetration is not great because the shell does not plunge, but the shell is heavy enough to compensate. Worse case, they could do what the USN did and simply have a range table for firing the gun with 1 less bag of powder to cause a lower MV.
This is not seen as a serious flaw as gains in deck penetration tend to be slow and at the outer limits of accuracy. Barring catastrophic hits, two ships might seriously deplete their magazines at very long ranges without landing enough hits to reduce the foe to a sinking condition.

 
                    3                        5
                    (b)   (d)           (f)
A   (1) [a]                                z  (6)  Y
                    (c)   (e)           (g) 
                    2                        4

Armor :
The armor scheme is unusual for a Parthian ship.

A main armored deck is mounted at the top of the belt.
But a protective armored deck for splinters crowns above the waterline and connects to the bottom of the belt.
The TDS seals to the 'knuckle' of the protective deck.

A magazine box meets the protective deck, thickening the plates over the magazine.


Belt
Inclined Waterline Main belt is backed by a protective deck, the TDS, and then the magazine box.

Inclined belt :
5m/ Cos (15) = 5.17638 = 5.18

Math :
180 + 35*1.5/2 + 57/2 + 65/2

Waterline
Magazines : 267mm + slope
Machinery : 232mm + slope


Deck

Vertical : 
Main + 1/2 protective + 1/2 magazine

Magazines : 115mm
Machinery : 83mm


1568t    35/65/65mm Armored Deck
  717t      0/35/0mm   Protective Splinter Deck
  136t         65mm      Magazine Box - meets bottom of protective deck
------
2,421t needed

2,422t paid



MISC :
116- Reserve wt.

AD :
148t  FC 1930
25t   LR radio
0t     SR Radio
10t   RDF/Jammer
25t   Hulesmeyer
25t   Air Search Radar
25t   Searchlight tower (NF)

OD :
5t - Paravanes
10t - 2x Catapults on stern
50t - 2x Floatplanes on stern


HAW :
10t - Hanger in stern
19t - CO2 Air compressor A/C
19t - Extra Fire Extinguishers

HBW :
19t - Extra Pumps
31t - Auxiliary Diesel Generator power

 
Decks
7.9m : Forecastle
5.40  : Weather
2.90  : Battery,  Top Main belt, Armored Deck
0.40  : Main deck, splinter protective deck, top TDS
-2.1   : 2nd deck.   Bottom Main Belt
-4.6   : 1st Platform deck
-6.1   : Engineering
-8.08 : Double bottom
-9.20 : Keel

=> I have also SS a la Tone/Chikuma.
This is very interesting to have independent aerial spotting for Red Sea & Aden Gulf.
With 7000nm range, for Red Sea & Aden Gulf use only, => 12300t


SS with 14000nm range:

Colonial Cruiser, Byzantine Empire Tone laid down 1935

Displacement:
   12 400 t light; 13 178 t standard; 14 479 t normal; 15 520 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (574,13 ft / 570,87 ft) x 77,10 ft x (22,36 / 23,58 ft)
   (174,99 m / 174,00 m) x 23,50 m  x (6,81 / 7,19 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 500,01lbs / 226,80kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 500,01lbs / 226,80kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      12 - 5,24" / 133 mm 45,0 cal guns - 80,01lbs / 36,29kg shells, 340 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      16 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 200 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 4-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 5 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4 993 lbs / 2 265 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,72" / 120 mm   376,77 ft / 114,84 m   10,53 ft / 3,21 m
   Ends:   1,38" / 35 mm   194,06 ft / 59,15 m   10,53 ft / 3,21 m
   Upper:   3,54" / 90 mm   376,77 ft / 114,84 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,51" / 140 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   5,51" / 140 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,77" / 45 mm
   Forecastle: 1,38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 1,38" / 35 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 3,15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 87 440 shp / 65 230 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 14 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 341 tons

Complement:
   659 - 857

Cost:
   £6,120 million / $24,478 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 288 tons, 8,9 %
      - Guns: 1 288 tons, 8,9 %
   Armour: 3 022 tons, 20,9 %
      - Belts: 1 350 tons, 9,3 %
      - Armament: 628 tons, 4,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 943 tons, 6,5 %
      - Conning Towers: 101 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 2 484 tons, 17,2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 228 tons, 36,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 079 tons, 14,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 378 tons, 2,6 %
      - Hull below water: 60 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 193 tons
      - Above deck: 125 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19 616 lbs / 8 898 Kg = 39,2 x 10,0 " / 254 mm shells or 2,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
   Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 16,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,515 / 0,523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   17,50 %,  26,57 ft / 8,10 m,  23,29 ft / 7,10 m
      - Forward deck:   33,00 %,  23,29 ft / 7,10 m,  21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Aft deck:   33,00 %,  21,00 ft / 6,40 m,  18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Quarter deck:   16,50 %,  18,37 ft / 5,60 m,  18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Average freeboard:      21,14 ft / 6,44 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 29 731 Square feet or 2 762 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 670 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,82
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
25t for Long Range Marconi
80t for top mast rangefinder - FC1930
20t for Hulesmeyer
OD
32t for 2x4TTx533HW
15t night fighting
15t for enhanced hydrophone
6t for 30x195kg DC
105t for cata + 4 seaplanes
20t reserved
AW
climatisation
BW
60t for additionnal pumps

Quote...So the ship would be very dependent on aerial spotting...

This is monitor for Red Sea & Aden Gulf, not an armored cruiser.

I have also SS a la Tone/Chikuma.
This is very interesting to have independent aerial spotting for Red Sea & Aden Gulf.

4 guns, 3 on broadside, are not going to have the ROF for splash FC. So the ship would be very dependent on aerial spotting. There is no margin of speed there either. 

Parthia thinks the Byzantines should build lots and lots of these !

Red Sea & Aden defender

Monitor -  Red Sea Gunboat, Byzantine Empire AGB8000 laid down 1935

Displacement:
   8 000 t light; 8 596 t standard; 9 039 t normal; 9 393 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (491,99 ft / 488,85 ft) x 68,24 ft x (18,06 / 18,61 ft)
   (149,96 m / 149,00 m) x 20,80 m  x (5,51 / 5,67 m)

Armament:
      2 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 500,01lbs / 226,80kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1925 Model
     1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward
      2 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 500,01lbs / 226,80kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      16 - 5,24" / 133 mm 45,0 cal guns - 80,01lbs / 36,29kg shells, 340 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      16 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 200 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 4-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 5 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3 313 lbs / 1 503 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,72" / 120 mm   322,64 ft / 98,34 m   9,91 ft / 3,02 m
   Ends:   1,38" / 35 mm   166,17 ft / 50,65 m   9,91 ft / 3,02 m
   Upper:   3,54" / 90 mm   322,64 ft / 98,34 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,51" / 140 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   5,51" / 140 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,77" / 45 mm
   Forecastle: 1,38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 1,38" / 35 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 3,15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 46 200 shp / 34 465 Kw = 27,02 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 797 tons

Complement:
   463 - 602

Cost:
   £3,610 million / $14,442 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 782 tons, 8,7 %
      - Guns: 782 tons, 8,7 %
   Armour: 2 213 tons, 24,5 %
      - Belts: 1 116 tons, 12,3 %
      - Armament: 302 tons, 3,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 721 tons, 8,0 %
      - Conning Towers: 74 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 1 313 tons, 14,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 439 tons, 38,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 039 tons, 11,5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 253 tons, 2,8 %
      - Hull below water: 40 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 88 tons
      - Above deck: 125 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15 101 lbs / 6 850 Kg = 30,2 x 10,0 " / 254 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,525 / 0,530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,16 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   17,50 %,  25,59 ft / 7,80 m,  23,13 ft / 7,05 m
      - Forward deck:   33,00 %,  23,13 ft / 7,05 m,  19,03 ft / 5,80 m
      - Aft deck:   33,00 %,  19,03 ft / 5,80 m,  15,75 ft / 4,80 m
      - Quarter deck:   16,50 %,  15,75 ft / 4,80 m,  15,75 ft / 4,80 m
      - Average freeboard:      19,51 ft / 5,95 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 744 Square feet or 2 113 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 578 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,98
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
25t for Long Range Marconi
80t for top mast rangefinder - FC1930
20t for Hulesmeyer
OD
32t for 2x4TTx533HW
15t night fighting
15t for enhanced hydrophone
6t for 30x195kg DC
20t reserved
AW
climatisation
BW
40t for additionnal pumps

Fleet Frigate, Byzantine Empire F16 laid down 1932

1932: Othu & Omihu
1933: Okarh & Oghur

Displacement:
    3 000 t light; 3 178 t standard; 3 426 t normal; 3 624 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (439,60 ft / 436,35 ft) x 45,93 ft x (13,72 / 14,27 ft)
    (133,99 m / 133,00 m) x 14,00 m  x (4,18 / 4,35 m)

Armament:
      6 - 5,24" / 133 mm 50,0 cal guns - 80,01lbs / 36,29kg shells, 340 per gun
      Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
      3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
        1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
        4 raised mounts
      4 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
      Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward
        2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 496 lbs / 225 kg

Armour:
  - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    3,15" / 80 mm    301,08 ft / 91,77 m    9,84 ft / 3,00 m
    Ends:    1,18" / 30 mm    135,24 ft / 41,22 m    7,87 ft / 2,40 m
      Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    0,98" / 25 mm    0,59" / 15 mm        0,59" / 15 mm
    3rd:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -
    4th:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -

  - Armoured deck - single deck:
    For and Aft decks: 1,38" / 35 mm
    Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm  Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm

  - Conning towers: Forward 3,15" / 80 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32 340 shp / 24 126 Kw = 29,00 kts
    Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 446 tons

Complement:
    223 - 291

Cost:
    £1,308 million / $5,231 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 149 tons, 4,3 %
      - Guns: 149 tons, 4,3 %
    Armour: 767 tons, 22,4 %
      - Belts: 425 tons, 12,4 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 303 tons, 8,8 %
      - Conning Towers: 21 tons, 0,6 %
    Machinery: 955 tons, 27,9 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 046 tons, 30,5 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 426 tons, 12,4 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 2,5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 44 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      3 126 lbs / 1 418 Kg = 43,5 x 5,2 " / 133 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
    Metacentric height 2,0 ft / 0,6 m
    Roll period: 13,7 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,16

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,436 / 0,443
    Length to Beam Ratio: 9,50 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 20,89 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8,00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    17,00 %,  23,13 ft / 7,05 m,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Forward deck:    34,00 %,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Aft deck:    35,00 %,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Quarter deck:    14,00 %,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:        15,61 ft / 4,76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,1 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161,8 %
    Waterplane Area: 12 643 Square feet or 1 175 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 273 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0,71
        - Longitudinal: 1,19
        - Overall: 0,75
    Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room
    Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
15t for1924 top mast rangefinder
25t for LR marconi
OD
16t for 1x4TTx533HW
15t for enhanced hydrophone
6t for 30x195kg DC
7t reserved for new material, paravanes, armament.
AW
climatisation

While this is basically self-musing over the options,

Others comments are of course welcome.


The range of potential vessels to face these opfors span 10,000 tons.
Over the course of 4 ships, that's 40,000 tons - a battleship or a cruiser division.
I'd actually like to build more, but 4 is what I need to replace those ageing out.

I could even build mixtures, as I tend to field them in 2 ship groups.
Perhaps 2 Dahaes and 4 Zemakas? 8 Zemakas? 6 Zambags?

So there's a range. The Zemakas are the Armored Cruisers, but they should be able to take on the IJN's version of the B-65, or most of the ships discussed above- though the fast battleships would have to be a night combat. The 265mm I developed specifically because it would be 'good enough'.

The Zambags have the 300L49 gun, which was designed to be slightly larger, but slightly better vs. belt and a fair bit better on Decks.

The Dahaes depart from the 31 knot speed for a 30 knot speed.
As 'Heavy Armored Cruisers' they are the Parthian version of a battlecruiser but we aren't calling them that. As a result, they are powerful enough they don't really need to run from much. The 333L43 was designed mainly to regun the 345L40 ships, but also as it has a decent mix of penetration characteristics.

From memory, I think the 50/50 belt/deck hit spot is ~16km, while seeing the whole ship is 18km, and mast tops were somewhere from 21-23km depending on the ships. Historically the longest hits were ~26km.

Searchlights are ~12km, starshell 16km...I would need to check that. But 16km would seem about the outer band for night engagements.

Of course weather can bring all those ranges in and make long range fire impractical.

Interestingly (well to me) the specs on the Dutch 1047 BC included accelerating from 20knots to 30knots in 15 minutes. I looked at Nevada at Pearl and came up with 1knt/min as I recall. Might be 1 knt/2min. Either way, not hideously off.

Anyhow as I ponder, I post up some of the SS designs. Probably not all of them. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

Horizontal

Vertical

Gun

Shell

Velocity

180mm

200mm

230mm

320mm

50mm

75mm

100mm

125mm

265L49

339kg

850mps

27km

25km

22km

16km

22km

26km

28km

never

300L49

490kg

779mps

29km

27km

24km

17km

20km

23km

26km

28km

333L43

605kg

794mps

all

29km

25km

18km

20km

24km

27km

29km

Horizontal

Vertical

Max

Cruise

Class

Light Tons

Main Btty

Sec Btty

Magazines

Machinery

Magazines

Machinery

TDS / Torps

Speed

Speed

Range

Zemaka II

19000

8x265L49

12x130DP

267

232

116

83

4m / 4.9

31

16

8146

Zemaka III

19750

8x265L49

12x130DP

267

232

116

83

4m / 5.5

31

18

10142

Zambag XV

23000

8x300L49

16x130DP

267

232

116

83

4m / 5.9

31

18

8184

Dahae Q

26000

8x333L43

16x130DP

349

309

123

105

6.5m / 8.2

30

16

8744

Zambag IX

26750

8x300L49

16x130DP

331

294

125

87

4m / 7.9

31

18

9894

Dahae R

27000

8x333L43

16x130DP

376

339

148

110

6.5m / 8.5

30

16

8396

Dahae S

28770

8x333L43

16x130DP

376

339

148

110

5m / 8.1

31

16

8084