As usually, I am appreciative and mildly envious of those who draw the vessels :)

My ship of course has a saucer section, engineering hull and twin warp nacelles...

If you have to tinker with the design for 'B' mount, could I suggest the middle 130mm mount be raised as well, lending DP fire dead ahead. From the deck break it doesn't help aft.
I presume another difference between between the designs is the # of secondary mounts.

Sketch of the eight-gunner.  Placement of the 50mm would be as shown so the SS would need slight adjustment.

The six-gunner would be similar except for, you know, fewer guns aft.

That non-superfiring B turret is a mistake rather than a design choice.

I shall have somebody punished accordingly.

Roughly equivalent to my Xiyon but with 6x250 rather than 8x215.

Not superimposing "B" is slightly odd if intentional, closes out the forward arc at closer ranges. At 32 knots I'd expect this vessel to want to be able forward while charging to a preferred range. If the ship is broadside only with the speed to keep that range, makes more sense, the 150rpg suggests that.

While I have a TDS, it doesn't change the #torps much, though it should protect against crits and mines/aerial torps fairly well.

Quote...  6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre...

Nearly IJN Tone

Or rather than build four of the above, I could build six-ish of these smaller six-gunners.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1935

Displacement:
   14,955 t light; 15,832 t standard; 17,613 t normal; 19,039 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (691.28 ft / 675.85 ft) x 73.16 ft x (24.93 / 26.41 ft)
   (210.70 m / 206.00 m) x 22.30 m  x (7.60 / 8.05 m)

Armament:
      6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,227 lbs / 1,917 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   439.30 ft / 133.90 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 107,238 shp / 80,000 Kw = 32.08 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,207 tons

Complement:
   763 - 993

Cost:
   £6.926 million / $27.702 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,224 tons, 6.9 %
      - Guns: 1,224 tons, 6.9 %
   Armour: 4,410 tons, 25.0 %
      - Belts: 1,759 tons, 10.0 %
      - Armament: 762 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,803 tons, 10.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 86 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,047 tons, 17.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,917 tons, 33.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,658 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 358 tons, 2.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 83 tons
      - Above deck: 275 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     24,622 lbs / 11,169 Kg = 51.6 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.24 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.99 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  28.87 ft / 8.80 m,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.80 ft / 6.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,735 Square feet or 3,134 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 631 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

New AC for 1935 follows on from the 1929 class.  Primary roles are in fleet scouting and trade defence.  It'd likely make a good carrier escort but the Union isn't thinking along those lines yet. 

Main changes are a DP secondary and increased range.  Seakeeping at flank speed is an important consideration given that the ship will be operating in the Atlantic. 




Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1935

Displacement:
   20,972 t light; 22,125 t standard; 24,296 t normal; 26,033 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (752.40 ft / 734.91 ft) x 82.02 ft x (28.22 / 29.69 ft)
   (229.33 m / 224.00 m) x 25.00 m  x (8.60 / 9.05 m)

Armament:
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,559 lbs / 2,522 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   492.39 ft / 150.08 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.97" / 50 mm   492.39 ft / 150.08 m   24.84 ft / 7.57 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 126,005 shp / 94,000 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,908 tons

Complement:
   972 - 1,264

Cost:
   £8.976 million / $35.905 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,574 tons, 6.5 %
      - Guns: 1,574 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 7,123 tons, 29.3 %
      - Belts: 2,624 tons, 10.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 891 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 1,201 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,265 tons, 9.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 142 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 3,580 tons, 14.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,130 tons, 33.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,325 tons, 13.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 566 tons, 2.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 166 tons
      - Above deck: 400 tons

Fittings:
-55 t:  2 armed scoutplanes and a catapult (FD)
-100 t:  Command facilities (FD/AD)
-158 t:  Fire control (AD)
-25 t:  Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t:  Heulsmeyer device (AD)
-61 t + 117 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37,897 lbs / 17,190 Kg = 79.5 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.23 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18.00 %,  31.82 ft / 9.70 m,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Aft deck:   37.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      23.16 ft / 7.06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 181.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 41,124 Square feet or 3,821 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 706 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

It is not fun to go to save a springsharp design, and instead of 'save data file' you click on the next one down....
'clear all'.

Thank you for the heads up.
I will have to wait on my decision.

I was expected he'd want to build carrier-escort capable ships, as he's very aeronautically minded. Understandably.

Foxy likes fast and hard hitting and asymmetric.

I was figuring either an Amagi type in 1924 or so, followed by a B-65,
or two sets of B-65s, one about 1924, one about 1929.

The Stormbringer class was roughly the same speed as his Kirishima BCs
and the Dahae were faster and better armed. I rather expected they would counter any further Kirishima or Amagi type vessel. 

Seeing what the IJN built in 1929 will matter on which gun I'll choose in 1935.
Luckily I have a range to choose from.

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on October 18, 2024, 04:59:14 PM

Quote from: TacCovert4 on October 18, 2024, 04:22:45 PMHow will they match up against "HMS Courageous but with more HMS Courageous"?  I'm working on a ship design with Foxy's input.....and that's the direction he's going for a carrier escort capital ship.

No clue, I'd have to see it.
I was guessing he'd go fast and light, which is why I was looking at the B-65 and Dutch 1047.
The problem with HMS Courageous is even my existing 215mm-255mm ACs can kill it most of the time.

4 Barrels has a substantial FC penalty without aerial spotting, and even with, that's a low max ROF.
Now if you are far enough out, ROF declines so you can adjust. But that ship doesn't have a ton of deck armor either.

Overall, guessing fairly darn well, as they are nearly the same speed, but with twice the barrels and higher ROF, so they would punch many many holes in HMS Courageous armor before it got a any hits. They would both punch right through each other, so more holes the better.

The 'Heavy Armored Cruiser' designs would just dominate an HMS Courageous style ship, though they outweigh it.   I will probably post one of those 4 designs once I decide which is best suited for my needs.

But it might be a good reason to delay my making a decision.

I'm working on it.  I'm envisioning these not as Battlecruisers per se but as carrier escorts, with an emphasis on secondary/AA firepower.  With that in mind they'd probably be the primary command ship for a Carrier fleet as they're fast, plenty of room, and not suited to fully independent operations.

I'm going to work up a matching 'fully armored battlecruiser' which I see as being his primary new capital ship.  Likely something in line with the Amagi, maybe slightly downscaled to 8-9 guns in favor of more speed.