Alternately, on 2,600 t, I can build the above with a large transom stern, 33.5 knots, and 0.75 hull strength so it's technically a cruiser rather than a destroyer. 

Or more of a Cadillac torpedo-boat, with 50% more heavy battery, even more speed (not that I really desire it) and a little less seakeeping.  Seakeeping would still be above 1.00 at 33.5 knots, apparently.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1935

Displacement:
   2,497 t light; 2,671 t standard; 3,033 t normal; 3,323 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (439.16 ft / 426.51 ft) x 39.37 ft x (15.42 / 16.40 ft)
   (133.86 m / 130.00 m) x 12.00 m  x (4.70 / 5.00 m)

Armament:
      6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      6 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      1 raised mount
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 432 lbs / 196 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.18" / 30 mm
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 58,981 shp / 44,000 Kw = 34.35 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 652 tons

Complement:
   203 - 265

Cost:
   £1.734 million / $6.934 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 123 tons, 4.1 %
      - Guns: 123 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 26 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armament: 26 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,516 tons, 50.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 687 tons, 22.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 536 tons, 17.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 144 tons, 4.7 %
      - Hull below water: 25 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 59 tons
      - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     654 lbs / 297 Kg = 9.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.94

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.422
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 74
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.09 ft / 4.60 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,399 Square feet or 966 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 78 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 193 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.14
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

One option for a 1935 torpedo-boat.  Compared to the preceding A/C class, they're 100+ tonnes heavier, but have an extra 0.6 knots of speed, extra 500nm of cruising bunkerage, and an additional 50mm AA mounting aft.

Seakeeping is nominally below 1.00, but would be fine at 33.5 knots I'm sure.  It's a function of the newer engine year requiring more speed to maintain the 50% machinery weight.  Adding a transom into the mix completely messed this up, so I skipped that altogether.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1935

Displacement:
   2,323 t light; 2,463 t standard; 2,808 t normal; 3,084 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (419.48 ft / 406.82 ft) x 39.04 ft x (15.09 / 16.07 ft)
   (127.86 m / 124.00 m) x 11.90 m  x (4.60 / 4.90 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      1 double raised mount
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 296 lbs / 134 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.18" / 30 mm
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54,960 shp / 41,000 Kw = 33.92 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 621 tons

Complement:
   192 - 250

Cost:
   £1.559 million / $6.237 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 85 tons, 3.0 %
      - Guns: 85 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 29 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armament: 29 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,407 tons, 50.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 659 tons, 23.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 485 tons, 17.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 144 tons, 5.1 %
      - Hull below water: 25 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 59 tons
      - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     667 lbs / 303 Kg = 10.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.98

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.423
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.49 ft / 4.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,836 Square feet or 914 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 79 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 186 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Interesting 2T2 forward, but 'cheek' mounts, so 6 guns dead ahead or on either beam, but 2 aft ?
I believe that is roughly how my Maelstrom cruisers are arranged.

The carrier rules have a limit of 6 to be considered not a carrier

As I've mentioned before, protective decks can be problematic. 
Presuming your belt goes to -2m, then it rises 1.23m above WL.
I presume you deck heights are the standard 2.44,
which means 5.45, 3.01, 0.57m
If the crown of the protective deck is only 0.57 above WL,
then the belt is only 0.66 over the crown.

Which at longer ranges will let some shells arch over the belt and strike the slope of the PD directly.
The gun firing dictates at what slope the shell descends,
but as I recall it seems likely to occur like 18-24km and only effects a small % of the deck area, but I thought I'd mention it again.

I did math on this long long ago, and wound up with...as I recall... 1.5-2m+ over the crown as a good height. Which is part of why Parthian ships went to armored decks as Fire Control improved.

Famously one of the flaws of the USS South Dakota Class was it is apparently possible to trace a shell path that would pass over the thickened exterior shell, pass in front of the armor belt, and strike in the TDS directly, which could be bad.


 

one of the weird bits of design guidance is that a rise of >1.5m in the bow may not allow dead-ahead short range fire.
That's guidance, not rule, and so would depend on who is overseeing the battle.
The idea is if the muzzle heights appear to be in pictures about 1.5m-2m high, a short range

Update Byzantine Tone class with 1933-AC10 armour

Real cost with Uparty 254/45 mlle1925 turrets: 13BP & 13$

Armored Cruiser, Byzantine Empire Tone laid down 1935

Displacement:
    15 100 t light; 15 958 t standard; 17 433 t normal; 18 612 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (634,64 ft / 631,23 ft) x 77,92 ft x (23,63 / 24,86 ft)
    (193,44 m / 192,40 m) x 23,75 m  x (7,20 / 7,58 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 500,01lbs / 226,80kg shells, 120 per gun
      Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
      2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
        1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 500,01lbs / 226,80kg shells, 120 per gun
      Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
      4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      12 - 5,24" / 133 mm 45,0 cal guns - 80,01lbs / 36,29kg shells, 340 per gun
      Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
      6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 200 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
      6 x 4-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
        6 raised mounts
      16 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 5 000 per gun
      Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
      8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
        8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5 009 lbs / 2 272 kg

Armour:
  - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    7,87" / 200 mm    410,30 ft / 125,06 m    10,60 ft / 3,23 m
    Ends:    1,18" / 30 mm    220,90 ft / 67,33 m    10,60 ft / 3,23 m
      Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
        1,57" / 40 mm    410,30 ft / 125,06 m    21,29 ft / 6,49 m
    Beam between torpedo bulkheads 61,52 ft / 18,75 m

  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    11,8" / 300 mm    7,87" / 200 mm        11,0" / 280 mm
    2nd:    9,06" / 230 mm    1,97" / 50 mm        7,87" / 200 mm
    3rd:    0,39" / 10 mm          -                  -
    4th:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -
    5th:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -

  - Protected deck - single deck:
    For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm
    Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm

  - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 4 shafts, 93 130 shp / 69 475 Kw = 30,00 kts
    Range 14 000nm at 12,00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 2 654 tons

Complement:
    758 - 986

Cost:
    £6,721 million / $26,884 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 1 292 tons, 7,4 %
      - Guns: 1 292 tons, 7,4 %
    Armour: 5 006 tons, 28,7 %
      - Belts: 1 537 tons, 8,8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 509 tons, 2,9 %
      - Armament: 1 377 tons, 7,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 424 tons, 8,2 %
      - Conning Towers: 160 tons, 0,9 %
    Machinery: 2 646 tons, 15,2 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 663 tons, 32,5 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 333 tons, 13,4 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 493 tons, 2,8 %
      - Hull below water: 75 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 293 tons
      - Above deck: 125 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      25 632 lbs / 11 627 Kg = 51,3 x 10,0 " / 254 mm shells or 4,2 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
    Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
    Roll period: 16,8 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,61
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,525 / 0,533
    Length to Beam Ratio: 8,10 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 25,12 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    17,50 %,  27,72 ft / 8,45 m,  23,79 ft / 7,25 m
      - Forward deck:    32,50 %,  23,79 ft / 7,25 m,  20,18 ft / 6,15 m
      - Aft deck:    32,50 %,  20,18 ft / 6,15 m,  17,88 ft / 5,45 m
      - Quarter deck:    17,50 %,  17,88 ft / 5,45 m,  17,88 ft / 5,45 m
      - Average freeboard:        20,90 ft / 6,37 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,4 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172,8 %
    Waterplane Area: 33 534 Square feet or 3 115 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0,96
        - Longitudinal: 1,42
        - Overall: 1,00
    Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room
    Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
25t for Long Range Marconi
80t for top mast rangefinder - FC1930
20t for Hulesmeyer
OD
32t for 2x4TTx533HW
15t night fighting
15t for enhanced hydrophone
6t for 30x195kg DC
205t for cata + 8 armed seaplanes
20t reserved
AW
climatisation
BW
75t for additionnal pumps

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on October 20, 2024, 11:57:38 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 20, 2024, 07:54:19 AMAgain, if you have a specific ship you'd like sketched, I could take a crack at it.  Tac seemed satisfied with my take on his cruiser.

BTW I do appreciate the offer, but most of my ships actually are not to my aesthetic tastes.
The 2x 4 gun batteries are efficient and I decided I'd do them this game, but I really prefer 4 turret designs, esp if the fore deck extends 40-45% for a HMS Tiger look...but that's not what I'm building. 

Granted, I like the toughness and firepower of my current designs. The main/sec/ter stack in A/B/C gives
some nice forward/aft DP&AA firing arcs...but they are not my idea of pretty.

:)

You don't like the Richelamato?  I'm shocked, shocked I say.......

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 20, 2024, 07:54:19 AMAgain, if you have a specific ship you'd like sketched, I could take a crack at it.  Tac seemed satisfied with my take on his cruiser.

BTW I do appreciate the offer, but most of my ships actually are not to my aesthetic tastes.
The 2x 4 gun batteries are efficient and I decided I'd do them this game, but I really prefer 4 turret designs, esp if the fore deck extends 40-45% for a HMS Tiger look...but that's not what I'm building. 

Granted, I like the toughness and firepower of my current designs. The main/sec/ter stack in A/B/C gives
some nice forward/aft DP&AA firing arcs...but they are not my idea of pretty.

:)

The end of prototype trials by the four major societies had yielded an almost expected polyglot of results:

The Snake Warriors viewed the halftrack trucks and medium tank offerings, and even the light tank offerings, as unsuited to their primary purpose of long-distance and high speed maneuver in the vast plains and scrub deserts.  Ultimately, while a few odds and ends were decided to be considered for procurement, all designs distilled to two basic chassis, the 6 x 6 M8 armored car chassis, with a variety of turrets, superstructures, and arrangements considered for the 'light cavalry' battalions within their brigades.  The extreme speed of the fully tracked M18 vehicles, while thin skinned, were loved and efforts redoubled to build a variety of 'cavalry tanks' using this basic chassis as the primary combat vehicle of the 'heavy cavalry' battalions.

The Eagle Warriors settled on pushing for an updated tankette with a pair of turret-mounted 12mm MGs on its two-man hull as something capable of being carried by aircraft and lining up with their doctrine of air mobile infantry.

The Seal Warriors primarily liked the 'light tanks' and insisted on a full variety of vehicles built on the M3 Light chassis, including an assault gun, tank, flamethrower vehicle, artillery carrier, and so forth, with these being considered to be light enough for landing across a beach using the basic amphibious equipment currently available. 

The Jaguar Warriors opted for series production of the Half-Track, as a cost saving and efficiency measure.  While they acknowledged it was not as capable as the 'Kangaroo' designs the Snake Warriors wanted, the ability to carry larger numbers of men cheaply matched their war plans of supporting infantry operations in Oaxaca Province or in set-piece warfare against the Romans.  The M3 Medium series, despite its ungainly appearance, were considered to be fine tanks for fighting on the Oaxaca line, with the ability to fire from both a 40mm and a 70mm gun in the attack or defense to be a desired design feature. 

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 20, 2024, 05:59:09 PMEr...I had posted the original eight-gun design just before I posted the wonky six-gun design.

Since it was the 6 gun where the superimposed lack was noted, I thought that is what you were fixing.
The ship got much bigger.

Er...I had posted the original eight-gun design just before I posted the wonky six-gun design.