A place for the future designs :)
I've updated the Norse turns until 1928,
but it occurred to me that the Norse Fleet really needs more AA,
and I should take care of that.
Since we don't HAVE the Springsharps for many of the posted designs,
I will be using (unless there's a protest) Moderator Handwaving to ease this.
I made SS's of a 'Capital' a 'Cruiser' and a 'Destroyer' AA refit.
I put in the main and secondary batteries of the various classes to figure out what the FC should be.
Norse ships have a ton of Miscellaneous weight, so the changes should come out of that.
I will budget for Basic Refits adding the AA, and changing the misc wt.
I will
Eventually, use the Moderator ability to edit the old design posts with an 'AA refit' block.
Here is the list of 1928 classes getting the AA Refit.
The SS of the 'Capital' a 'Cruiser' and 'Destroyer' versions shall follow.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | Norse Class | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | Misc wt | Main +Sec | AA Refit | gunshields | mag changes | 2 Floatplanes+CAT | New FC | | | | |
| bb | Odin | 799 | 1589 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 247 | | | | |
| | freyr | 846 | 2271 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 320 | | | | |
| | thor | 1023 | 3092 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 420 | | | | |
| | calgacas | 1087 | 3124 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 429 | | | | |
| | surtur | 1065 | 3675 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 482 | | | | |
| | Ullr | 1040 | 3724 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 485 | | | | |
| | Vili | 915 | 5932 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 693 | | | | |
| | selkirkshire | 639 | 1285 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 201 | | | | |
| | Wicklow | 959 | 2379 | 72 | 9 | 58 | 55 | 342 | | | | |
| | | | | | | | 1 Floatplanes+CAT | | | | | |
| cruiser | Har | 227 | 55 | 37 | 2 | 33 | 30 | 33 | | | | |
| | Town | 251 | 126 | 37 | 2 | 33 | 30 | 42 | | | | |
| | Danae | 249 | 136 | 37 | 2 | 33 | 30 | 43 | | | | |
| | Geilo | 266 | 136 | 37 | 2 | 33 | 30 | 45 | | | | |
| | Valkyrie | 147 | 136 | 37 | 2 | 33 | 30 | 33 | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| CDS | Tanngrisnirr | | 944 | 37 | 2 | 33 | 30 | 99 | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| Destroyer | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | F-Class | 58 | 14.3 | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 2 | | | | |
| | G-Class | 58 | 18.6 | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 2.5 | | | | |
| | H-Class | 58 | 35.7 | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 4.1 | | | | |
| | Snekkja | 71 | 91 | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | +72t in 120mm | 4.1 | | | | |
| | I-Class | 69 | 45 | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 5.9 | | Revised misc wt | | |
| | J-Class | 84 | 70.8 | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 7.8 | | uses up reserve | | |
| | K-Class | 94 | 62.8 | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 6.8 | | uses up reserve | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| CDS | Vainamoinen | | 614 | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 6.8 | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| Auxiliaries get 'Destroyer Refit', absorbed from misc wt reserve | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | MSW-1 | 42 reserve | | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 1.3 | | | | |
| | Knarr | 60 reserve | | 4.61 | 0.4 | 10.7 | | 10.4 | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Quote
Capital Ship, Norse AA Refit laid down 1928
Displacement:
-58 t light; 0 t standard; 0 t normal; 0 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(0.00 ft / 0.00 ft) x 0.00 ft x (0.00 / NaN ft)
(0.00 m / 0.00 m) x 0.00 m x (0.00 / NaN m)
Armament:
12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 13.89lbs / 6.30kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 1.70lbs / 0.77kg shells, 900 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
4 x 4-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
12 x Single mounts layout not set
Weight of broadside 200 lbs / 91 kg
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
Machinery:
Immobile floating battery
Complement:
0 - 0
Cost:
£0.084 million / $0.337 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 72 tons, 0.0 %
- Guns: 72 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: NaN tons, 0.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 58 tons, 0.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
NaN lbs / NaN Kg = NaN x 6 " / 152 mm shells or NaN torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): NaN
Metacentric height NaN ft / NaN m
Roll period: NaN seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): NaN %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): NaN
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): NaN
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / NaN
Length to Beam Ratio: NaN : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 0.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 0 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): NaN
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): NaN
Waterplane Area: 0 Square feet or 0 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): NaN
Structure weight / hull surface area: NaN lbs/sq ft or NaN Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: NaN
- Longitudinal: NaN
- Overall: NaN
Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide
Quote
Cruiser, Norse AA Refit laid down 1928
Displacement:
-33 t light; 0 t standard; 0 t normal; 0 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(0.00 ft / 0.00 ft) x 0.00 ft x (0.00 / NaN ft)
(0.00 m / 0.00 m) x 0.00 m x (0.00 / NaN m)
Armament:
6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 13.89lbs / 6.30kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 1.70lbs / 0.77kg shells, 900 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 104 lbs / 47 kg
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
Machinery:
Immobile floating battery
Complement:
0 - 0
Cost:
£0.044 million / $0.176 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 37 tons, 0.0 %
- Guns: 37 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: NaN tons, 0.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 33 tons, 0.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
NaN lbs / NaN Kg = NaN x 6 " / 152 mm shells or NaN torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): NaN
Metacentric height NaN ft / NaN m
Roll period: NaN seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): NaN %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): NaN
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): NaN
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / NaN
Length to Beam Ratio: NaN : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 0.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 0 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): NaN
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): NaN
Waterplane Area: 0 Square feet or 0 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): NaN
Structure weight / hull surface area: NaN lbs/sq ft or NaN Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: NaN
- Longitudinal: NaN
- Overall: NaN
Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide
Quote
Capital Ship, Norse AA Refit laid down 1928
Displacement:
-58 t light; 0 t standard; 0 t normal; 0 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(0.00 ft / 0.00 ft) x 0.00 ft x (0.00 / NaN ft)
(0.00 m / 0.00 m) x 0.00 m x (0.00 / NaN m)
Armament:
12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 13.89lbs / 6.30kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 1.70lbs / 0.77kg shells, 900 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
4 x 4-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
12 x Single mounts layout not set
Weight of broadside 200 lbs / 91 kg
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
Machinery:
Immobile floating battery
Complement:
0 - 0
Cost:
£0.084 million / $0.337 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 72 tons, 0.0 %
- Guns: 72 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: NaN tons, 0.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 58 tons, 0.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
NaN lbs / NaN Kg = NaN x 6 " / 152 mm shells or NaN torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): NaN
Metacentric height NaN ft / NaN m
Roll period: NaN seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): NaN %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): NaN
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): NaN
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / NaN
Length to Beam Ratio: NaN : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 0.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 0 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): NaN
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): NaN
Waterplane Area: 0 Square feet or 0 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): NaN
Structure weight / hull surface area: NaN lbs/sq ft or NaN Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: NaN
- Longitudinal: NaN
- Overall: NaN
Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide
Reasonable levels of AA?
Sufficient disclosure ?
I think the general idea is sound. Think the capital ship mount numbers need checking.
Could you elucidate?
Do you have a better method?
For each capital ship class I added in the main guns and their secondary to get the proper weight.
I'm presuming the existing light guns and AA get removed.
Deck spots?
6 for the 75s, went with twins for a smaller footprint.
4 for the quads
Conceptually should be something like this - though I suppose they put 37s and 75s on turret tops back then too.
S1 S2 S3
[37s] [37]
A B Q X Y
and you can stick a 25 just about anywhere.
The cost table winds up looking like this :
| | | | Refurbishment tonnage | | Refit IC | Refit BP | | Cost $ | Cost BP |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| Odin | Battleship | 2 | | | 0.882 | 0.162 | | 0.882 | 0.162 |
| Freyr | Battleship | 2 | 21770 | | 1.028 | 0.162 | | 9.736 | 0.162 |
| Thor | Battleship | 2 | 26433 | | 1.228 | 0.162 | | 11.8012 | 0.162 |
| Calcargas | Battleship | 2 | 29410 | | 1.246 | 0.162 | | 13.01 | 0.162 |
| Surtur | Battleship | 2 | 28979 | | 1.352 | 0.162 | | 12.9436 | 0.162 |
| Ullr, Skadi | Battlecruiser | 2 | | | 1.358 | 0.162 | | 1.358 | 0.162 |
| Vili, Ve | Battleship | 2 | | | 1.774 | 0.162 | | 1.774 | 0.162 |
| Selkirkshire | Armored Cruiser | 3 | | | 1.185 | 0.243 | | 1.185 | 0.243 |
| Wicklow | Battlecruiser | 4 | | | 2.144 | 0.324 | | 2.144 | 0.324 |
| | | | | | 0 | 0 | | 0 | 0 |
| Town | Light Cruiser | 5 | 4910 | | 0.675 | 0.195 | | 5.585 | 0.195 |
| Har | Scout Cruiser | 3 | 4502 | | 0.432 | 0.117 | | 3.1332 | 0.117 |
| Danae | 1915 Light Cruiser | 12 | | | 1.74 | 0.468 | | 1.74 | 0.468 |
| Gielo | 1918 Cruiser | 10 | | | 1.47 | 0.39 | | 1.47 | 0.39 |
| Herja | 1920 Valkyrie Cruiser | 12 | | | 1.62 | 0.468 | | 1.62 | 0.468 |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| Tanngrisnir | Large CDS | 2 | | | 0.402 | 0.078 | | 0.402 | 0.078 |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| F-class | Destroyer 1908 | 13 | 747 | | 0.23023 | 0.06513 | | 2.17243 | 0.06513 |
| G-class | Destroyer 1909 | 16 | 745 | | 0.29136 | 0.08016 | | 2.67536 | 0.08016 |
| H-class | Destroyer 1914 | 16 | 890 | | 0.31696 | 0.08016 | | 3.16496 | 0.08016 |
| Sn 1-12 | Snekkja DD 1916 | 28 | | | 0.55468 | 0.14028 | | 0.55468 | 0.14028 |
| I-Class | Idun DD 1917 | 16 | | | 0.34576 | 0.08016 | | 0.34576 | 0.08016 |
| J-Class | Jotun DD 1920 | 16 | | | 0.37616 | 0.08016 | | 0.37616 | 0.08016 |
| K-Class | Kadir DD 1923 | 22 | | | 0.49522 | 0.11022 | | 0.49522 | 0.11022 |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| MS20 | MSW | 42 | | | 0.71442 | 0.21042 | | 0.71442 | 0.21042 |
| Knarr | Support | 8 | | | 0.20888 | 0.04008 | | 0.20888 | 0.04008 |
| | | | | | 0 | 0 | | 0 | 0 |
| | | | | | 0 | 0 | | 0 | 0 |
| | | | | | 0 | 0 | | 0 | 0 |
| ML1 | Minelayer | 8 | | | 0.14168 | 0.04008 | | 0.14168 | 0.04008 |
| ML9 | Minelayer | 4 | 607 | | 0.07084 | 0.02004 | | 0.55644 | 0.02004 |
| MS9 | Minesweeper | 10 | 191 | | 0.1771 | 0.0501 | | 0.5591 | 0.0501 |
| Sleipnir | Gunboat | 6 | | | 0.10626 | 0.03006 | | 0.10626 | 0.03006 |
| RGB81 | Gunboat | 20 | 101 | | 0.3542 | 0.1002 | | 0.7582 | 0.1002 |
| Natica | Collier | 3 | | | 0.05313 | 0.01503 | | 0.05313 | 0.01503 |
| Pyro | Ammunition | 2 | | | 0.03542 | 0.01002 | | 0.03542 | 0.01002 |
| Bridge | Stores | 4 | | | 0.07084 | 0.02004 | | 0.07084 | 0.02004 |
| Mytilus | Support | 1 | | | 0.01771 | 0.00501 | | 0.01771 | 0.00501 |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | TOTAL COST | 81.79065 | 4.59435 |
| | | | | | | | | | |
I mean the SS snippets indicate the capital ship sims have twelve guns but in just six single mountings.
That's a good catch,
I will swap that to doubles and check for weight changes.
Ed : original version Gun : 17, mount 56, mag 58
Revised 2-Gun 75AA.. same. Guess it's counting number of barrels x mount type ?
Or the % change is too small.
lets try 1000 on 500 single mounts : 102/392
vs 1000 on 500 two-gun : same. Curious.
Armament:
12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 13.89lbs / 6.30kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 1.70lbs / 0.77kg shells, 900 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
4 x 4-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
12 x Single mounts layout not set
Weight of broadside 200 lbs / 91 kg
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -