You ever have those moments where you design a ship, just to realize that the docks that can handle said ship won't be available for six more months.......
This is one of those times. So a small set of changes. Overall went from twin 130s to singles, added some firefighting equipment which was an oversight before, so 200 tons of kit to keep the hangars from burning up, which seems to be reasonable. And since I WILL have a DP gun in the queue in 1929-1.....the design is set up literally to allow the mid-construction refit to swap the planned battery to a new DP battery in the galleries. Or in the British Parlance....Fitted For but not With.
Constellation, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1929
Displacement:
22,766 t light; 23,373 t standard; 25,368 t normal; 26,964 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(762.51 ft / 754.59 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.08 / 27.38 ft)
(232.41 m / 230.00 m) x 25.00 m x (7.95 / 8.34 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on sides forward
2 double raised mounts
12 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 718 lbs / 326 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 603.67 ft / 184.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 150.89 ft / 45.99 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 603.67 ft / 184.00 m 24.08 ft / 7.34 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.57" / 40 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: - - 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,996 shp / 105,183 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,591 tons
Complement:
1,004 - 1,306
Cost:
£5.774 million / $23.098 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 128 tons, 0.5 %
- Guns: 128 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 4,249 tons, 16.7 %
- Belts: 1,124 tons, 4.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 847 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 103 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 2,116 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,330 tons, 17.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,086 tons, 31.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,602 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,973 tons, 23.5 %
- Hull below water: 2,900 tons
- Hull above water: 2,948 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 75 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43,547 lbs / 19,753 Kg = 649.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.557
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 12.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 8.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 242.0 %
Waterplane Area: 43,194 Square feet or 4,013 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 562 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
13t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
5700t - 60 x Aircraft (Provision for heavier tech expansion)
50t BW - Additional Pumps
50t - On Deck Firefighting Equipment
100t AW - Hangar Firefighting Equipment
And, as keeps getting put by the wayside, I desperately need to get some more replenishment ships in the water. Therefore, the Tuna-Class, which keeps getting updated, is back on the menu. This time, I've cut the length down to where she doesn't interfere with my larger drydocks and can use some of my mid-sized ones. With diesels, I've also been able to significantly increase fuel bunkerage for replenishment while maintaining a ridiculous cruising endurance for the ship itself:
Tuna-Class, Aztec Replenishment Ship laid down 1929
Displacement:
14,114 t light; 14,509 t standard; 15,769 t normal; 16,778 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(490.01 ft / 485.56 ft) x 72.18 ft x (19.69 / 20.83 ft)
(149.35 m / 148.00 m) x 22.00 m x (6.00 / 6.35 m)
Armament:
4 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Twin mounts on side ends, majority aft
Weight of broadside 830 lbs / 377 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: Unarmoured
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.31" / 8 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: - - 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: - - 0.79" / 20 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors, plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 46,108 shp / 34,397 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,269 tons
Complement:
703 - 914
Cost:
£3.106 million / $12.425 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 239 tons, 1.5 %
- Guns: 239 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 92 tons, 0.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 90 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,416 tons, 9.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,666 tons, 23.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,656 tons, 10.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 8,701 tons, 55.2 %
- Hull below water: 6,027 tons
- Hull above water: 2,400 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 74 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,434 lbs / 9,722 Kg = 120.5 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.66
Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.16
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.800 / 0.804
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.73 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.20 ft / 7.68 m, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m
- Average freeboard: 18.02 ft / 5.49 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.8 %
Waterplane Area: 30,824 Square feet or 2,864 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 449 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
24t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
50t - 2 x Cranes
50t - Refueling Hoses
50t - Firefighting Hoses
50t - 2 x Catapult & Unarmed Floatplane
50t - Firefighting Pumps
50t - Refueling Pumps
500t - Workshops
1800t - Dry Goods Storage
5500t - Fuel Oil
427t - Diesel Engines
100t - Damage Control Pumps
Range is 16,100nm @ 14kt Cruising Speed w/Geared Diesels
And an associated design, a Seaplane Tender for carrying a mixed AP of floatplanes and flying boats. With catapults for putting up a couple of planes either quickly or if the ship is in motion for defense.
Island-Class, Aztec Colonial Seaplane Tender laid down 1929
Displacement:
12,543 t light; 12,894 t standard; 14,049 t normal; 14,973 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(489.04 ft / 485.56 ft) x 65.62 ft x (19.69 / 20.86 ft)
(149.06 m / 148.00 m) x 20.00 m x (6.00 / 6.36 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
8 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 386 lbs / 175 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: Unarmoured
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.24" / 6 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: - - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over magazines:
0.79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.79" / 20 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors, plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 41,773 shp / 31,163 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,079 tons
Complement:
644 - 838
Cost:
£2.624 million / $10.497 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 94 tons, 0.7 %
- Guns: 94 tons, 0.7 %
Armour: 107 tons, 0.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 68 tons, 0.5 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 17 tons, 0.1 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 1,283 tons, 9.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,601 tons, 25.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,506 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 7,459 tons, 53.1 %
- Hull below water: 3,688 tons
- Hull above water: 3,500 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 71 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,963 lbs / 9,962 Kg = 327.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.66
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.784 / 0.789
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.40 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 23.23 ft / 7.08 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 191.6 %
Waterplane Area: 27,594 Square feet or 2,564 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 430 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.83
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
11t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Wireless
10t - Additional SR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
50t - 2 x Cranes
50t - Refueling Hoses
50t - Firefighting Hoses
70t - 2 x Catapult & Armed Floatplane
50t - Firefighting Pumps
50t - Refueling Pumps
200t - Workshops
6400t - Air Point And Supports
388t - Diesel Engines
100t - Damage Control Pumps
Range is 16,100nm @ 14kt Cruising Speed w/Geared Diesels
Those are some pretty chonky auxiliaries.
The Tuna class is a result of ships getting huge and the mayans.
I need the tonnage for fuel and stores and workshops. The aircraft are testing the idea of delivering mail via air to ships and such.
The armament.....is the mayans fault. I don't have the numbers of escorts to always protect them. So putting enough firepower on the tender that it can let someone know it was there is useful. No armor and those unprotected guns, she's not capable of offense. But if a Mayan raider was to try to take her out, it could get hurt enough that it was mission killed......so they have deterrent value.
I was speaking more of the block co-efficient on the hulls. They're quite full hullforms.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 11, 2023, 04:05:57 PM
I was speaking more of the block co-efficient on the hulls. They're quite full hullforms.
Ahh, yes. Maximum storage space, stability, etc. Also really helps the TDS keep them safe from a stray submarine torpedo. Because yes, I'm starting to drop a TDS, even a relatively weak double-bottom one, onto my fuel-carrying ships, to at least give them a fighting chance if they take a submarine torpedo. It's really thin because don't have a choice to keep it under 2%. But it represents basically a layer with an STS bulkhead to give stand-off before the buoyancy hull or the vital space is breached.
Plus, with their performance characteristics, and general space for the amount of crew, these should basically be the most comfortable ships in the fleet. Heck, if you're a gunners mate with a 180mm certification, you'd probably give your left nut to be assigned to a Tuna. I intend to build out a full class here, already have the names planned:
Albacore,
Bigeye,
Blackfin,
Bluefin
Tunny,
Longtail,
Skipjack,
Yellowfin
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 11, 2023, 04:05:57 PM
I was speaking more of the block co-efficient on the hulls. They're quite full hullforms.
Interesting.
I don't have a great feel for simming merchies, but big bulky hullforms seem par for the course,
I think I normally set mine at .7 or .75.
This site https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-architecture/understanding-block-coefficient-of-a-ship/ (https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-architecture/understanding-block-coefficient-of-a-ship/)
Says .8 to .9 but that's for modern ships, the big containers and tankers, with modern engines.
I'd expect earlier merchants might want a little more fuel economy and be slimmer.
This site is beyond my understanding, but the bottom bar is BC (CB) for modern merchants
and goes from 0.5494 to .842
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Bluntness-coefficients-B-f-of-typical-merchant-ships-vs-block-coefficient_fig40_288002232 (https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Bluntness-coefficients-B-f-of-typical-merchant-ships-vs-block-coefficient_fig40_288002232)
As for warships, Friedman's Battleship design and development has tables in the back, and the greatest battleship BC I can find is USS Pennsylvania at .656, so not far short of .7.
Some of the ships like Von Der Taan have fairly low BCs because they had long tapering bows and sterns but great width amidships.
While the intention is to lay down a pair each of Lake and Uhlan class vessels in late 1928, because I like those ships.....I have listened to the prodding, mostly Kirk, to develop a smaller balanced cruiser.
Thus I present:
Shark-class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1929
Displacement:
7,999 t light; 8,396 t standard; 9,476 t normal; 10,339 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(566.10 ft / 557.74 ft) x 61.02 ft x (18.04 / 19.33 ft)
(172.55 m / 170.00 m) x 18.60 m x (5.50 / 5.89 m)
Armament:
8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,786 lbs / 810 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 362.53 ft / 110.50 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 195.18 ft / 59.49 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.53" / 115 mm 2.36" / 60 mm 4.53" / 115 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.38" / 35 mm -
4th: - - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.17" / 55 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.36" / 60 mm, Aft 2.36" / 60 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 74,245 shp / 55,387 Kw = 30.80 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,944 tons
Complement:
479 - 624
Cost:
£3.097 million / $12.387 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 407 tons, 4.3 %
- Guns: 407 tons, 4.3 %
Armour: 1,975 tons, 20.8 %
- Belts: 917 tons, 9.7 %
- Armament: 143 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 870 tons, 9.2 %
- Conning Towers: 46 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,280 tons, 24.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,093 tons, 32.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,477 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 243 tons, 2.6 %
- Hull above water: 66 tons
- On freeboard deck: 107 tons
- Above deck: 70 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,815 lbs / 4,906 Kg = 60.8 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 19.32 ft / 5.89 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.9 %
Waterplane Area: 23,532 Square feet or 2,186 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 447 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.87
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
32t - 2 x 4 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
60t - 2 x Catapult and 2 x Armed floatplane
60t - Power Assist for 180mm Mounts
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
41t - 1918 FC
I freely admit to incompetence where it regards major refit work on ships.
Looking towards 1931 or so, when I'll want to refit the 3 obsolete Implacables into something at least reasonably useful. Overall I'm looking at the following changes in this refurbishment. Cost is $15.86 and 3.26 BP, after savings realized from scrapping unused components. And it'll take right at a year, slightly more, so 3 hy.
Replacing the old machinery and electric drives.
Pulling all of the casemate guns, and deck guns, including all AA.
Adding a 15mm splinter deck when the armor deck is put back on after the machinery replacement
Adding 4 x 40mm AA Gatlings, 12 x 120mm DP Twins, and 16 x 30mm AA Singles
Adding a Basic Hydrophone (anticipating I'm going to be using these in the colonies, the ability to get some warning of an approaching ship or sub is important)
Updated FC and NF Devices
2 Floatplanes and Catapults
Implacable, Aztec Battleship laid down 1913 (Engine 1931)
Displacement:
23,944 t light; 25,187 t standard; 27,320 t normal; 29,026 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(629.29 ft / 623.36 ft) x 82.02 ft (Bulges 88.58 ft) x (26.64 / 28.16 ft)
(191.81 m / 190.00 m) x 25.00 m (Bulges 27.00 m) x (8.12 / 8.58 m)
Armament:
10 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
24 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x 2 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,504 lbs / 3,857 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 410.11 ft / 125.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 2.76" / 70 mm 213.25 ft / 65.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 410.11 ft / 125.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 410.11 ft / 125.00 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 8.86" / 225 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.74" / 95 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 3.15" / 80 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.39" / 340 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 54,722 shp / 40,823 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,839 tons
Complement:
1,062 - 1,381
Cost:
£2.148 million / $8.592 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,838 tons, 6.7 %
- Guns: 1,838 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 11,372 tons, 41.6 %
- Belts: 5,049 tons, 18.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 882 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 2,606 tons, 9.5 %
- Armour Deck: 2,574 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Tower: 262 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,636 tons, 6.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,239 tons, 30.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,376 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 859 tons, 3.1 %
- Hull below water: 515 tons
- Hull above water: 92 tons
- On freeboard deck: 60 tons
- Above deck: 192 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
49,317 lbs / 22,370 Kg = 73.6 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 9.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 17.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.38
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.04 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.99 ft / 6.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.3 %
Waterplane Area: 39,167 Square feet or 3,639 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 761 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
410t - Electric Drives
5t - Basic Hydrophones
100t - Additional Damage Control Equipment
50t - Flag Bridge
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices 1918
184t - 1918 FC
60t - Aviation Facilities, Catapults, and 2 x Armed Floatplane
Deck is 80mm Monolithic with 15mm Splinter
And an anticipated Refurb of the Sultan Ali Class, bringing them up to the modern era with an engine replacement, a 25mm Splinter Deck, and an all new secondary and AA battery, plus two amidships catapults and 4 floatplanes.
Sultan Ali, Aztec Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1931)
Displacement:
25,717 t light; 27,036 t standard; 28,833 t normal; 30,270 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(717.87 ft / 705.38 ft) x 85.30 ft x (29.53 / 30.71 ft)
(218.81 m / 215.00 m) x 26.00 m x (9.00 / 9.36 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.90lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
24 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
4 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,093 lbs / 3,217 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 213.25 ft / 65.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.2" / 260 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 10.2" / 260 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: - - 0.79" / 20 mm
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 123,294 shp / 91,978 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,234 tons
Complement:
1,106 - 1,438
Cost:
£2.371 million / $9.484 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,555 tons, 5.4 %
- Guns: 1,555 tons, 5.4 %
Armour: 10,151 tons, 35.2 %
- Belts: 4,205 tons, 14.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,176 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 1,798 tons, 6.2 %
- Armour Deck: 2,773 tons, 9.6 %
- Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,687 tons, 12.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,026 tons, 31.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,116 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,297 tons, 4.5 %
- Hull below water: 922 tons
- Hull above water: 86 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
- Above deck: 179 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,067 lbs / 17,721 Kg = 58.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.568 / 0.573
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.39 ft / 6.52 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.6 %
Waterplane Area: 42,707 Square feet or 3,968 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 743 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.18
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
922t BW Electric Drives
50t Flag Bridge
25t - 1918 NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
165t - 1918 FC
110t - 2 x Catapult Amidships and 4 x Armed Floatplane
Armored Deck is 75mm Monolithic, with a 25mm Splinter
Refurbishments are financially fairly reasonable for life extension purposes. These were fairly modern ships, so you can stay out of very expensive reconstruction.
Typically, when I'm starting a rebuild project, I start by saving as... to have a fresh file.
Then in the comments I note the original main gun+mounts, main magazine, engine weight, and bunkerage limits- all of those can't go up under refurbishment. I also note deck armor, as I'll be changing it.
Considering the Mayan 10" ships, there's definitely an OPFOR foe. Plus if you're called on to help the IJN vs. China, they have suitable vessels.
And of course they can oppose various 10" cruisers.
I see the date is 1931, I presume so you can have the early DP technology from the Capital ship lineage.
Don't forget to add a little time in, after that development, for researching DP mounts as well.
While you cannot 'increase' deck armor, you can add another deck.
Which makes sense, you can't physically inflate the existing deck material.
I have clarified that that can be a separate deck, or as was done with many ships - laminated directly over the existing deck.
The additional laminated deck is only 80% effective, while a separate deck only adds 50% but also limits damage beyond that- depending on thickness vs. shell, vs overall pen. Both have merits. Both need to be spelled out in the notes.
Turreted mounts : IF regunning- which I develop new guns to fit old mountings, but you're not calling for - the clarification from Snip long long ago is that you take the Guns+mounts tonnage ...and that's the limit for rearming using the same barbettes. The gun face/other armor probably needs to be replaced, but the barbette armor stays.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 14, 2023, 09:02:52 AM
Refurbishments are financially fairly reasonable for life extension purposes. These were fairly modern ships, so you can stay out of very expensive reconstruction.
Typically, when I'm starting a rebuild project, I start by saving as... to have a fresh file.
Then in the comments I note the original main gun+mounts, main magazine, engine weight, and bunkerage limits- all of those can't go up under refurbishment. I also note deck armor, as I'll be changing it.
Considering the Mayan 10" ships, there's definitely an OPFOR foe. Plus if you're called on to help the IJN vs. China, they have suitable vessels.
And of course they can oppose various 10" cruisers.
I see the date is 1931, I presume so you can have the early DP technology from the Capital ship lineage.
Don't forget to add a little time in, after that development, for researching DP mounts as well.
While you cannot 'increase' deck armor, you can add another deck.
Which makes sense, you can't physically inflate the existing deck material.
I have clarified that that can be a separate deck, or as was done with many ships - laminated directly over the existing deck.
The additional laminated deck is only 80% effective, while a separate deck only adds 50% but also limits damage beyond that- depending on thickness vs. shell, vs overall pen. Both have merits. Both need to be spelled out in the notes.
Turreted mounts : IF regunning- which I develop new guns to fit old mountings, but you're not calling for - the clarification from Snip long long ago is that you take the Guns+mounts tonnage ...and that's the limit for rearming using the same barbettes. The gun face/other armor probably needs to be replaced, but the barbette armor stays.
That's what I did. It was just quite a slog to do on the Implacable. I'm working on the Sultan Ali slog now. Paperwork, the bane of everyone's existence. The Implacables lose some magazine capacity in the secondary and AA compared to what's being laid down now and in future. But I think I can make them viable units in secondary roles into the mid-late 40s.
And no, I'm not swapping guns in existing mounts. I'm removing the entire secbat and AA wholesale, as at this point it's a couple of generations out of date, and swapping it for a modern battery. I complete the tech to get DP guns in 1928.5, so a 1931 year start for the 5 ships between the two classes.....will allow for the new guns to have been developed.
Cost for the Sultan Ali refurb:
3 HY of time (a bit less, but it'll get done over 3 hy)
Cash Cost: 21.01
BP Cost: 5.21
The Gilgamesh came out at 3HY, the PD's before were 2HY.
You're allowed to pay over all the time, or lump sum it (aka preorder).
I note you have a large number of 120mm secondary mounts, (Ali's need to be toggled to twin)
Granted 6 per side isn't tremendous, though the Ali could potentially be showing 24 single mounts.
However, very very early on, there was a discussion about what could be fit on a ship and
we decided that as long as SS's happy with it, we don't micromanage such things.
I had been thinking of the overhead profiles of the Americans and mentally limiting myself
to 5 per side typically, and often I used a pattern with 'c' and 'w' mounts , then side mounts.
That could get me to 12 pretty easy, but I'm aiming for 10. When I build long ships I may add more.
Quote from: TacCovert4 on September 14, 2023, 09:43:52 AM
That's what I did. It was just quite a slog to do on the Implacable. I'm working on the Sultan Ali slog now. Paperwork, the bane of everyone's existence.
The magazine limit I only apply to main batteries, that seems to be the goal, and RL practice.
As for the paperwork, at one point I made myself a little spreadsheet, but that was still a chore, and I would need a way to 'show my work'
so I detail the steps in the SS. Not that I expect anyone's checking...but if there's an obvious error folks can call me on it.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 14, 2023, 10:15:41 AM
The Gilgamesh came out at 3HY, the PD's before were 2HY.
You're allowed to pay over all the time, or lump sum it (aka preorder).
I note you have a large number of 120mm secondary mounts, (Ali's need to be toggled to twin)
Granted 6 per side isn't tremendous, though the Ali could potentially be showing 24 single mounts.
However, very very early on, there was a discussion about what could be fit on a ship and
we decided that as long as SS's happy with it, we don't micromanage such things.
I had been thinking of the overhead profiles of the Americans and mentally limiting myself
to 5 per side typically, and often I used a pattern with 'c' and 'w' mounts , then side mounts.
That could get me to 12 pretty easy, but I'm aiming for 10. When I build long ships I may add more.
Thanks, it's always something small and stupid that I wind up missing.
The Sultan Alis are quite lengthy, and the secbat is arranged in two pyramidal clusters per side, well, more like trapezoidal when you include the single installation of 40mm gatling in each cluster, fore clusters forward, aft clusters aft, to give maximum arc of fire. With that, only one of each cluster can fire directly fore or aft, due to interference from other installations.
Overall, it's a somewhat less efficient gun arrangement than the 5 x arrangement on the NCs or SDs. Of course the Sultan Ali is a VERY long ship for the main battery she has, so there's quite a bit of broadside to fit a powerful secondary/aa to.
Fortunately, my conversions of my more modern warships to modern DP secondaries.....will be relatively cheap and quick, as a swap on say a Weapon's batteries is merely a pierside refit, stripping the deck mounts and putting new ones down and doing an FC Update.
I just got done with the big run of I, J, and K class DDs.....which actually brings me up to decent DD numbers for the first time. I'm working on other projects, like OPVs, right now, so my next DD class will go down when the new DP guns get researched.
As such......here's a concept for my 'Caribbean'....aka 'Big' 1931 DD.
L-Class, Aztec Destroyer laid down 1931
Displacement:
2,500 t light; 2,676 t standard; 2,947 t normal; 3,164 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(450.08 ft / 442.91 ft) x 39.37 ft x (10.95 / 11.58 ft)
(137.18 m / 135.00 m) x 12.00 m x (3.34 / 3.53 m)
Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mount, 1931 Model
1 x 4 row quad mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
10 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
10 x Single mounts on side ends, majority aft
Weight of broadside 472 lbs / 214 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 55,834 shp / 41,652 Kw = 33.62 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 487 tons
Complement:
199 - 259
Cost:
£1.525 million / $6.099 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 136 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 136 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 27 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 27 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,477 tons, 50.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 777 tons, 26.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 447 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 2.9 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- Hull above water: 7 tons
- On freeboard deck: 30 tons
- Above deck: 32 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
767 lbs / 348 Kg = 14.5 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.86 ft / 5.14 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 182.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192.1 %
Waterplane Area: 12,056 Square feet or 1,120 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 189 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 0.54
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
14t - 1918 FC
20t - 1x5x21in HW TT Centerline
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones
10t - 50 x DC
25t - NF Devices
She'd be pretty capable. I've been tinkering with similar ideas (albeit with 130mm instead).
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 16, 2023, 07:28:15 PM
She'd be pretty capable. I've been tinkering with similar ideas (albeit with 130mm instead).
The. Concept was a super tribal.
Originally I wanted to have the protection of the I class. But I can't and have the firepower, so I chose the firepower.
I'll be tweaking it a lot. I could probably cram the armor in there if I deleted the rotary 40mm in favor of the other (same cartridge) 40mm that I'm simultaneously developing (the rotary has a different-enough breech that I can't just 'make a single barrel version' if I'm being fair). But with the idiom I'm making, the 40mm Rotary is a gun that we're going to be almost too enamored with in the 1930s.....though the bugs won't be worked out until at least the mid 40s.
The downside, of course, is that this is a 2500t DD. She's a Big Big Girl. So I'll also need to work on something a bit more 'reasonable' and 'small'
Interesting....not sold on it, but we each have our own needs.
You're going with a high (for a DD) BC of 0.54, which helps get you the higher machinery % at that speed.
Which helps keep the 'cost' of seakeeping reasonable.
I would suggest a couple tons less DCs and a couple of DC projectors instead.
Also, do you not expect to have Sonar by 1931 ? 10t for that would be nice.
Night Fighting : Hard category, in hindsight should have been defined up front I think.
25ts would be Cadillac package, so what a brit dreadnaught had - so searchlight towers, dedicated star shell guns, oversized binocs, etc.
Personally, for my DDs I'm ok stepping down from that for my DDs.
Also ever since the caicos, I put 2t for light paravanes on my DDs, 5t for regular on my larger ships.
But 2500 tons is a BIG destroyer.
Which means you can have less of them.
Depending on what the goal is, that may not be the bang for the buck you want.
I tend to look to my vessels for comparison what's doable,
and my last touchstone for comparison would be my 1925 'Babr' Corvettes.
The Babr (which may move from Ship thread to Encyclopedia while watching football tomorrow)
were meant as my Pacific or Oceanic Destroyers, but the Parthian navy got nervous pitching "destroyers"
at 1500 tons, when a decade before they were 750tons...so 'Corvettes.
But the trans-pacific role meant a ridiculous range for a DD - 6600nm.
Anyhow, comparing the two, the 1500 costs 60% of the 2500, but seems to be more like 70-75%
of the value. 1.7knots slower is probably the big knock, but the fuel is taking up a bunch of weight.
Something like this would potentially be the follow up to the K-class, which is a solid general-purpose 1500t destroyer. Optional would be deleting the secondary AA 40mm guns in favor of a 5th mount for the 120.....it's basically a wash between those two weapons. One notable thing, compared to older DD classes, is you'll note these are equipped with NF Devices....as those are improving and will be improving further and becoming more important to small vessels.....so that's a lot of tonnage high up on a small ship, which means you're going to lose somewhere....like in your guns or protection. And given the Aztec experience that its primary regional opponent is actually pretty good at chewing up torpedo-craft before they can get in and launch.....there's not a push to go with 8 or 10 torpedoes on these destroyers....rather to maximize firepower, and have enough torpedoes to land a telling shot if the opportunity arises, so a quintet of 21in HW torpedoes is present..
DD-M, Aztec Destroyer laid down 1932
Displacement:
1,581 t light; 1,681 t standard; 1,882 t normal; 2,043 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(366.17 ft / 360.89 ft) x 31.17 ft x (11.48 / 12.23 ft)
(111.61 m / 110.00 m) x 9.50 m x (3.50 / 3.73 m)
Armament:
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
10 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
10 x Twin mounts on side ends, majority forward
Weight of broadside 245 lbs / 111 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.06" / 27 mm 1.06" / 27 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 1.06" / 27 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 41,234 shp / 30,761 Kw = 32.80 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 362 tons
Complement:
142 - 185
Cost:
£0.938 million / $3.754 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 58 tons, 3.1 %
- Guns: 58 tons, 3.1 %
Armour: 34 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 30 tons, 1.6 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 975 tons, 51.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 435 tons, 23.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 301 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 4.3 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 34 tons
- Above deck: 31 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
465 lbs / 211 Kg = 8.8 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.520
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.58 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 14.52 ft / 4.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.1 %
Waterplane Area: 7,563 Square feet or 703 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 148 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.63
- Overall: 0.56
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
15t -Advanced Hydrophones
12t - Depth Charges
2t - 2 x DC Thrower
20t - 1 x 5 x 21in HW TT Centerline
6t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 16, 2023, 10:20:20 PM
Interesting....not sold on it, but we each have our own needs.
You're going with a high (for a DD) BC of 0.54, which helps get you the higher machinery % at that speed.
Which helps keep the 'cost' of seakeeping reasonable.
I would suggest a couple tons less DCs and a couple of DC projectors instead.
Also, do you not expect to have Sonar by 1931 ? 10t for that would be nice.
Night Fighting : Hard category, in hindsight should have been defined up front I think.
25ts would be Cadillac package, so what a brit dreadnaught had - so searchlight towers, dedicated star shell guns, oversized binocs, etc.
Personally, for my DDs I'm ok stepping down from that for my DDs.
Also ever since the caicos, I put 2t for light paravanes on my DDs, 5t for regular on my larger ships.
But 2500 tons is a BIG destroyer.
Which means you can have less of them.
Depending on what the goal is, that may not be the bang for the buck you want.
I tend to look to my vessels for comparison what's doable,
and my last touchstone for comparison would be my 1925 'Babr' Corvettes.
The Babr (which may move from Ship thread to Encyclopedia while watching football tomorrow)
were meant as my Pacific or Oceanic Destroyers, but the Parthian navy got nervous pitching "destroyers"
at 1500 tons, when a decade before they were 750tons...so 'Corvettes.
But the trans-pacific role meant a ridiculous range for a DD - 6600nm.
Anyhow, comparing the two, the 1500 costs 60% of the 2500, but seems to be more like 70-75%
of the value. 1.7knots slower is probably the big knock, but the fuel is taking up a bunch of weight.
You were posting while I was.
As you can see, for 'utility', the 1500t DD is honestly a bit superior. And yes, I tend to go a bit thick on my DDs when I could go super fine in their lines....but I'm also getting VERY reasonable stability, even with a nice slow roll. The big DDs, like my I class, tend to be more 'leaders' or 'gunslingers' for fleet operations. The idea of the L-class is 'How much Dakka can I put on a DD for the battle with the opposing screen'.
And yes, I'll probably need to consider Sonar coming up. Though at the moment I don't have the installations started, and the first series of installations will undoubtedly go on OPVs, and then on 'General Purpose' DDs.
Good to note that the 25t for NF Devices is functionally counting for a number of searchlights and probably enough tonnage to put a radar installation onboard. I've got time until we hit these being laid down, so I may decide to cut that back somewhat, or I may decide that I'm going to go the route of being the ultimate nightfighters....given the absolute disparity in my forces compared to all the major powers also running around in my back yard, that's not exactly out of the question
I'm actually expecting these super DDs to be Foxy's mode of choice for asymmetric torpedo platforms and night attacks.
Big enough 1 shell doesn't stop. fast enough to close to range in the dark, yet hold a number of torpedoes.
Your experience has pushed the design to a different direction.
One of the side effects of all the big fast ships in the world is they are harder to hit at range, and can turn and run from distant torp launches.
I think effective torpedo range will probably be rather short, and very very bloody in daylight, which means night fighting.
The bennie of your DD is it can step in for a light cruiser in commerce raiding and the like. Of course it's getting into light cruiser size ranges.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 16, 2023, 10:35:07 PM
I'm actually expecting these super DDs to be Foxy's mode of choice for asymmetric torpedo platforms and night attacks.
Big enough 1 shell doesn't stop. fast enough to close to range in the dark, yet hold a number of torpedoes.
Your experience has pushed the design to a different direction.
One of the side effects of all the big fast ships in the world is they are harder to hit at range, and can turn and run from distant torp launches.
I think effective torpedo range will probably be rather short, and very very bloody in daylight, which means night fighting.
The bennie of your DD is it can step in for a light cruiser in commerce raiding and the like. Of course it's getting into light cruiser size ranges.
It's a bit short-legged for that. But I haven't done a DD-N, a Pacific-ized version. The DD-J runs 100s instead of 130s to get fantastic range on the high seas.......I may consider a few options for a DD-N that can get me the sort of range I'd need to really go trans-oceanic on a DD without needing a fleet tender right there.
It's really only now that the vision I had after the Caicos, namely a fleet of torpedo boats being guided by leader ships that could see in the dark but were fast enough to do the job too, is becoming possible. And now is incidentally when other experiences have turned things towards a navy that is very heavy in firepower and protection and speed....at the expense of 'less effective' secondary weapons like torpedoes. Torpedoes in the RAN are currently more considered as a stand off weapon to force an enemy force to break off, or to finish off cripples, not a serious weapon to charge at the battle line, turn and give them a broadside of fish.
And taking the concept behind the J-class which is my 'Pacific Crossing DD', and modernizing it, you get the N-Class. 9200nm range at 14kts, top speed of 34kts. 10 x Torpedoes. Full suite of ASW equipment. Minesweeping ability to a degree. And even tonnage put towards the literal comfort of the crew and giving them better spaces. A gun battery that is honestly probably better at AA than it is at anti-surface is really its only downside. She's made to patrol or escort across the Pacific, not go gun for gun in a duel with the Mayan's Caribbean Fleet.
N-Class, Aztec Destroyer laid down 1932
Displacement:
2,481 t light; 2,600 t standard; 3,026 t normal; 3,366 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(465.29 ft / 459.32 ft) x 39.37 ft x (11.48 / 12.46 ft)
(141.82 m / 140.00 m) x 12.00 m x (3.50 / 3.80 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 203 lbs / 92 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.06" / 27 mm 1.06" / 27 mm -
2nd: - - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over magazines:
1.06" / 27 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.06" / 27 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 56,977 shp / 42,505 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 766 tons
Complement:
203 - 265
Cost:
£1.443 million / $5.770 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 42 tons, 1.4 %
- Guns: 42 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 49 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 19 tons, 0.6 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,552 tons, 51.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 667 tons, 22.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 545 tons, 18.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 171 tons, 5.7 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 72 tons
- Above deck: 54 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
825 lbs / 374 Kg = 37.1 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.523
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.34 ft / 4.68 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.8 %
Waterplane Area: 12,159 Square feet or 1,130 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 162 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.79
- Overall: 0.52
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
4t - 1918 FC
40t - 2x4x21in HW TT Centerline
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones 1915
10t - Sonar
2t - 2 x DC Thrower
10t - Minesweeping Paravanes
20t - 100 x 195kg DC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
20t - Enhanced Crew Accommodations
Acapulco, Aztec Battleship laid down 1930
Displacement:
26,995 t light; 28,820 t standard; 30,648 t normal; 32,110 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(594.60 ft / 590.55 ft) x 108.27 ft x (26.21 / 27.27 ft)
(181.23 m / 180.00 m) x 33.00 m x (7.99 / 8.31 m)
Armament:
9 - 14.17" / 360 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,435.69lbs / 651.22kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
20 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.90lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
32 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 14,121 lbs / 6,405 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.4" / 315 mm 383.86 ft / 117.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined -10.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.77" / 45 mm 383.86 ft / 117.00 m 25.13 ft / 7.66 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 8.27" / 210 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: - 0.04" / 1 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 5.51" / 140 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.09" / 180 mm, Aft 7.09" / 180 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 62,248 shp / 46,437 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,290 tons
Complement:
1,157 - 1,505
Cost:
£10.692 million / $42.768 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,026 tons, 9.9 %
- Guns: 3,026 tons, 9.9 %
Armour: 11,063 tons, 36.1 %
- Belts: 3,514 tons, 11.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 632 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 2,563 tons, 8.4 %
- Armour Deck: 4,054 tons, 13.2 %
- Conning Towers: 299 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,886 tons, 6.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,259 tons, 33.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,653 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 760 tons, 2.5 %
- Hull below water: 297 tons
- Hull above water: 153 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,377 lbs / 21,036 Kg = 32.6 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 8.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.640 / 0.645
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.81 ft / 5.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.1 %
Waterplane Area: 48,532 Square feet or 4,509 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 934 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
100t - Additional DC Equipment
197t - 70mm Box over Magazines
110t - 4 x Armed Floatplane and 2 x Catapults
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
303t - 1918 FC
Armor Deck is 120mm w/ 20mm Splinter
Belt is 340mm in upper half, tapering to 240mm in below water lower half
70mm Box over Magazine Spaces
OH CRUD.
Sorry Tac, did this to Rocky once.
Mod-ability means if I accidentally hit "modify" instead of "reply"...I edit the post.
Terribly sorry, could you be so kind s to repost the battlewagon?
Quote from: TacCovert4 on September 17, 2023, 09:32:48 AM
Quote
....mag box is considered 'laminated' underneath the splinter deck giving it about an 80mm top protection equivalent.
(181.23 m / 180.00 m) x 33.00 m x (7.99 / 8.31 m)
If recollection serves, prior modeling it seems that the 'mag box' creates a box the width of the hull, 3.5m high and with a roof.
So yours is laminated to a splinter deck and has ~5m of space below it.
That could work. I generally expect an air gap to ensure that if there is a partial penetration pressure wave, hot chunks of plate aren't spalled off
the roof of my magazine.
Dude, at least let him build it before you annihilate it.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 17, 2023, 12:54:04 PM
OH CRUD.
Sorry Tac, did this to Rocky once.
Mod-ability means if I accidentally hit "modify" instead of "reply"...I edit the post.
Terribly sorry, could you be so kind s to repost the battlewagon?
Quote from: TacCovert4 on September 17, 2023, 09:32:48 AM
Quote
....mag box is considered 'laminated' underneath the splinter deck giving it about an 80mm top protection equivalent.
(181.23 m / 180.00 m) x 33.00 m x (7.99 / 8.31 m)
If recollection serves, prior modeling it seems that the 'mag box' creates a box the width of the hull, 3.5m high and with a roof.
So yours is laminated to a splinter deck and has ~5m of space below it.
That could work. I generally expect an air gap to ensure that if there is a partial penetration pressure wave, hot chunks of plate aren't spalled off
the roof of my magazine.
Fixed.
Also, the way I see the decks are thus:
Main Armored Deck tops the Belt.
1 Deck of space
Splinter Deck is at the waterline, so it protects the engineering/magazine vitals from above water belt penetrations and deck penetrations.
The Box would be at this deck level, so the top of the box would functionally be 90mm thick, though we can treat it as laminated if it's simpler....and the sides of the box will extend down below the waterline. I'd say this is where the box is because all of the magazines are under the normal waterline.
Looking at 1931, which will be the first point all the new guns are available. With the shift towards having sizeable carriers in the scouting force battlegroups, having a screen ship that can support DDs as the DD leader and also rip through destroyers and anticipated Mayan land-based aircraft swarms, I present the Shark-class. While as designed she's death incarnate to both DDs and aircraft, in practice the 40mm guns are not the sinecure that they're believed to be, and there will be arguments that they should be pulled and replaced by doubling the number of 30mm guns instead. The torpedo armament is relatively heavy compared to the classes of the early 20s, this is also experimental, as we're looking at a very night-capable force as a way to actually use torpedoes against the Mayan ships because our daytime torpedo experience was 'rough'. It should also be a note that while we 'know' in 2023 that 120mm DP guns are good, in 1931 these would be very early DP guns, and the Aztec stance is that they're probably still 'just as good' as the 70mm AA gun they're replacing in the AA department, but they're primarily anti-surface guns, hence the L55 in both variants of the DP gun to maximize surface accuracy and performance.
Shark-class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1931
Displacement:
7,869 t light; 8,335 t standard; 9,389 t normal; 10,233 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(566.10 ft / 557.74 ft) x 61.02 ft x (17.88 / 19.13 ft)
(172.55 m / 170.00 m) x 18.60 m x (5.45 / 5.83 m)
Armament:
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
6 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 751 lbs / 341 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.33" / 110 mm 362.53 ft / 110.50 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 195.18 ft / 59.49 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.33" / 110 mm 2.36" / 60 mm 4.33" / 110 mm
2nd: 1.26" / 32 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.26" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.17" / 55 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 3.15" / 80 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 80,963 shp / 60,398 Kw = 31.50 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,897 tons
Complement:
476 - 620
Cost:
£3.069 million / $12.277 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 222 tons, 2.4 %
- Guns: 222 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 2,090 tons, 22.3 %
- Belts: 986 tons, 10.5 %
- Armament: 174 tons, 1.9 %
- Armour Deck: 870 tons, 9.3 %
- Conning Towers: 60 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,421 tons, 25.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,966 tons, 31.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,521 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 169 tons, 1.8 %
- Hull above water: 13 tons
- On freeboard deck: 94 tons
- Above deck: 62 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,199 lbs / 5,080 Kg = 212.4 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 19.86 ft / 6.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184.8 %
Waterplane Area: 23,532 Square feet or 2,186 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 416 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
64t - 4 x 4 x 21in HW TT on sides
30t - 1 x Catapult and 1 x Armed floatplane
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
25t - 1918 FC
I feel like I'd want another knot in order to keep up with friendly DDs, but that's probably an expensive ask.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 28, 2023, 06:45:46 PM
I feel like I'd want another knot in order to keep up with friendly DDs, but that's probably an expensive ask.
I can do it. But it basically comes down to:
"Have a ship with that extra knot of speed"
or
"Have a ship that doesn't get murdered by shellfire"
In point of fact, here's a 33kt variant. To get her to 33kts, I have to take the armor down to a maximum of 70mm, though I somewhat try to back that up with a protected deck. Also, there's no splinter protection fore and aft, though the belt and deck are covering even more due to the machinery spaces and magazines taking up most of the internal volume.
Shark-class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1931
Displacement:
7,869 t light; 8,335 t standard; 9,389 t normal; 10,233 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(566.10 ft / 557.74 ft) x 61.02 ft x (17.88 / 19.13 ft)
(172.55 m / 170.00 m) x 18.60 m x (5.45 / 5.83 m)
Armament:
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.90lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
6 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 751 lbs / 341 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 418.31 ft / 127.50 m 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 1.26" / 32 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.26" / 32 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.05" / 52 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 3.15" / 80 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 98,123 shp / 73,200 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,897 tons
Complement:
476 - 620
Cost:
£3.383 million / $13.531 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 222 tons, 2.4 %
- Guns: 222 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 1,490 tons, 15.9 %
- Belts: 498 tons, 5.3 %
- Armament: 135 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 796 tons, 8.5 %
- Conning Towers: 60 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,934 tons, 31.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,085 tons, 32.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,521 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 137 tons, 1.5 %
- Hull above water: 13 tons
- On freeboard deck: 62 tons
- Above deck: 62 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,921 lbs / 4,047 Kg = 169.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.28 ft / 6.49 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 199.3 %
Waterplane Area: 23,532 Square feet or 2,186 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 418 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
32t - 2 x 4 x 21in HW TT on sides
30t - 1 x Catapult and 1 x Armed floatplane
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
25t - 1918 FC
And just for funsies, if I go flat out for speed build. I don't consider this a serious design, as you have machinery above the waterline, only a 50mm box around machinery and magazines, and down to 4 twins on the main battery, so realistically she's not outside of what I could pull off with a destroyer, except for the long range and protection against HE and splinters. But she is fast, 34kts is nothing to sneeze at.......30-32kts seems to be what I consider the point of diminishing returns in Springsharp for designs of this time period......good likelihood I wind up moving speeds up to 35kts sometime next decade when machinery gets just a bit lighter.
Shark-class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1931
Displacement:
7,960 t light; 8,335 t standard; 9,389 t normal; 10,233 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(566.10 ft / 557.74 ft) x 61.02 ft x (17.88 / 19.13 ft)
(172.55 m / 170.00 m) x 18.60 m x (5.45 / 5.83 m)
Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.90lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
6 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 503 lbs / 228 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.26" / 32 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Box over machinery & magazines:
1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.36" / 60 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 111,148 shp / 82,917 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,897 tons
Complement:
476 - 620
Cost:
£3.506 million / $14.024 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 149 tons, 1.6 %
- Guns: 149 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 1,309 tons, 13.9 %
- Armament: 80 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,206 tons, 12.8 %
- Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,324 tons, 35.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,081 tons, 32.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,430 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 97 tons, 1.0 %
- Hull above water: 8 tons
- On freeboard deck: 32 tons
- Above deck: 57 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,943 lbs / 3,603 Kg = 150.6 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 21.82 ft / 6.65 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 203.9 %
Waterplane Area: 23,532 Square feet or 2,186 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 407 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.85
- Longitudinal: 1.49
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
32t - 2 x 4 x 21in HW TT on sides
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
15t - 1918 FC
I was thinking 32.5 knots but admit I don't closely monitor your destroyer speeds.
32kts would be within the range of my DDs, they tend to be 32 to 34.5kts. Of course, also keep in mind that in a seaway even the listed top speed (not mentioning the 'actual top speed') of a DD is a tad 'high'. A ship this size could reasonably actually reach and maintain 31.5kts for an extended period of time. So a DD being able to sprint a little isn't really overriding, as they'd never go to maximum speed until the final run in....and this ship is really designed to go 'second line' on the final run in a daylight engagement.....at night you're not going to run large ships in formations at high speeds unless you want to risk collisions.
To really take it to the absolute extreme......a 36kt DD Leader Cruiser. Armor is basically 'voting present', and the engines are so big that adding .1kt requires an additional 2000shp.
Shark-class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1931
Displacement:
7,960 t light; 8,335 t standard; 9,389 t normal; 10,233 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(567.30 ft / 557.74 ft) x 61.02 ft x (17.88 / 19.13 ft)
(172.91 m / 170.00 m) x 18.60 m x (5.45 / 5.83 m)
Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.90lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
6 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 503 lbs / 228 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.26" / 32 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Box over magazines:
2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.36" / 60 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 141,490 shp / 105,552 Kw = 36.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,897 tons
Complement:
476 - 620
Cost:
£4.060 million / $16.242 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 149 tons, 1.6 %
- Guns: 149 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 172 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 80 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 69 tons, 0.7 %
- Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,231 tons, 45.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,279 tons, 34.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,430 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 129 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull above water: 8 tons
- On freeboard deck: 64 tons
- Above deck: 57 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,229 lbs / 2,372 Kg = 99.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 23.42 ft / 7.14 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 153.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 217.8 %
Waterplane Area: 23,532 Square feet or 2,186 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 413 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 1.85
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
64t - 4 x 4 x 21in HW TT on sides
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
15t - 1918 FC
Going to be a bit of a dump-posting for a minute here. Just notating the 1931 Refit cycle as I have time to go through light ships and do the basic deck refits that'll be happening once the DP guns come into service. Generally speaking, it's pulling the old 70mm guns off, pulling off the old 100mm guns, and replacing them with 90mm guns in DP mountings. The minor tonnage savings is going straight into putting a Sonar installation where possible. I'm not even counting scrap value of these guns as 'in character' these guns are not very old, so they're being shifted to the Jaguar, Seal, and Snake warriors as Anti-Aircraft and fortress guns or even field guns in some situations.
Also, with these refits will come a change in ship type. Destroyers are going to split into "Fleet Destroyer" DD....and "Escort Destroyer" DE based on whether they are primarily a general-purpose escort ship that happens to also be fast and have torpedoes.....or if they're a gun platform designed to punch through the enemy screen or fend off enemy surface combatants primarily.
H-Class Refit is a total of 60t per ship......The class will be mass-refit pierside as that's a really tiny amount of tonnage to plug into the spreadsheet otherwise.
DE-H, Aztec Escort Destroyer laid down 1923 (1931 Refit)
Displacement:
890 t light; 924 t standard; 1,049 t normal; 1,149 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(304.23 ft / 298.56 ft) x 27.89 ft x (9.19 / 9.83 ft)
(92.73 m / 91.00 m) x 8.50 m x (2.80 / 3.00 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 101 lbs / 46 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.06" / 27 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 1.06" / 27 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22,358 shp / 16,679 Kw = 30.25 kts
Range 4,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 225 tons
Complement:
91 - 119
Cost:
£0.323 million / $1.293 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 21 tons, 2.0 %
- Guns: 21 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 7 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 5 tons, 0.5 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 527 tons, 50.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 263 tons, 25.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 159 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 72 tons, 6.9 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 44 tons
- Above deck: 3 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
311 lbs / 141 Kg = 14.0 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.491
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.11 ft / 4.30 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 12.52 ft / 3.82 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.9 %
Waterplane Area: 5,449 Square feet or 506 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 125 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.70
- Overall: 0.56
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
16t - 1 x 4 x 21in HW TT Centerline
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones
10t - Sonar
4t - 4 x DC Thrower
24 - 100 x DC
3t - 1918 FC
F-Class Refit. Replace Hydrophones with Adv Hydro, Add Sonar, Add DC Throwers, pull 1 triple TT, Replace Main Battery with DP Battery, Replace 12mm MGs with single 30mm AA guns. Total tonnage per Ship: 92t
DE-F, Aztec Escort Destroyer laid down 1922
Displacement:
1,499 t light; 1,571 t standard; 1,925 t normal; 2,208 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(365.29 ft / 360.89 ft) x 30.35 ft x (12.30 / 13.66 ft)
(111.34 m / 110.00 m) x 9.25 m x (3.75 / 4.16 m)
Armament:
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 238 lbs / 108 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.06" / 27 mm 0.04" / 1 mm -
2nd: - - 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.06" / 27 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 35,551 shp / 26,521 Kw = 31.65 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 637 tons
Complement:
144 - 188
Cost:
£0.564 million / $2.258 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 56 tons, 2.9 %
- Guns: 56 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 8 tons, 0.4 %
- Armament: 5 tons, 0.2 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,000 tons, 51.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 382 tons, 19.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 426 tons, 22.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 53 tons, 2.8 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 22 tons
- Above deck: 6 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
466 lbs / 211 Kg = 8.8 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.517
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.89 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.2 %
Waterplane Area: 7,297 Square feet or 678 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 141 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 0.54
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
15t - Advanced Hydrophones
10t - Sonar
2t - 2 x DC Thrower
8t - Depth Charges
12t - 1 x 3 x 21in HW TT Centerline
6t - 1918 FC
Trials Speed 32.5kts
DE-G 1931 Refit: Adds Hydrophones, Depth Charges, Pulls TT and replaces with a single quad launcher. 100mm guns replaced with 90mm DP guns, 12mm MGs replaced with 30mm AA guns in single pintle mounts. Total Tonnage per ship: 84t
DE-G, Aztec Escort Destroyer laid down 1922
Displacement:
1,500 t light; 1,559 t standard; 1,773 t normal; 1,944 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(366.17 ft / 360.89 ft) x 30.51 ft x (11.50 / 12.32 ft)
(111.61 m / 110.00 m) x 9.30 m x (3.51 / 3.76 m)
Armament:
6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 154 lbs / 70 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.06" / 27 mm - -
2nd: - - 0.98" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,692 shp / 30,356 Kw = 33.11 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 385 tons
Complement:
136 - 177
Cost:
£0.553 million / $2.212 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 33 tons, 1.9 %
- Guns: 33 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 7 tons, 0.4 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,003 tons, 56.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 412 tons, 23.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 273 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 2.5 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 26 tons
- Above deck: 4 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
393 lbs / 178 Kg = 17.7 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.490 / 0.501
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.83 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.83 ft / 4.22 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 189.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.9 %
Waterplane Area: 7,271 Square feet or 675 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 142 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.45
- Overall: 0.55
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
16t - 1 x 4 x 21in HW TT Centerline
10t - Depth Charges
15t - Adv Hydrophones
4t - 1918 FC
Trials Speed 34kt
Seeing the various plans for ships that would fall under the heading of 'Light Battlecruiser', the Sultanate puts out for bids on a new class of these ships. While the 360 triple could be used, and that seems to be what other nations are doing....using a battleship gun only in a very lightly armored ship.....the Sultanate wants a more balanced ship. So a modernization of the first generation of Razees is in order. A ship that can outrun most things, hit hard with 8 x 11in guns (of a new and improved design) and protected against anything short of a real battleship or battlecruiser at combat ranges. Also, a somewhat enlarged bridge and occupancy spaces to accommodate a squadron command for cruiser formations, and the new capital ship standard of multiple installations of night fighting equipment. The 11in gun is considered against the 14in gun. While you could get 6 of the bigger gun onto this hull with only minor changes, the result is two fewer shells per broadside, fewer shells in the magazine, and a rate of fire that could in combat be almost halved.
Battlecruiser 1932, Aztec Light Battlecruiser laid down 1932
Displacement:
23,652 t light; 24,923 t standard; 27,124 t normal; 28,884 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(748.94 ft / 738.19 ft) x 91.86 ft x (26.41 / 27.74 ft)
(228.28 m / 225.00 m) x 28.00 m x (8.05 / 8.46 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 55.0 cal guns - 795.87lbs / 361.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft deck centre
2 raised mounts
2 x 2 row quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 7,101 lbs / 3,221 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 479.82 ft / 146.25 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Ends: 2.76" / 70 mm 258.33 ft / 78.74 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 479.82 ft / 146.25 m 23.85 ft / 7.27 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.46 ft / 23.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.2" / 260 mm 5.51" / 140 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 1.06" / 27 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 2.76" / 70 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 131,984 shp / 98,460 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,961 tons
Complement:
1,056 - 1,373
Cost:
£9.636 million / $38.544 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,796 tons, 6.6 %
- Guns: 1,796 tons, 6.6 %
Armour: 8,120 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 3,163 tons, 11.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 500 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 1,113 tons, 4.1 %
- Armour Deck: 3,114 tons, 11.5 %
- Conning Towers: 230 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,896 tons, 14.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,414 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,472 tons, 12.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 426 tons, 1.6 %
- Hull above water: 131 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
- Above deck: 185 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,107 lbs / 16,378 Kg = 53.9 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.537
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.04 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.67 ft / 6.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.3 %
Waterplane Area: 46,449 Square feet or 4,315 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 781 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.08
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
181t - 1918 FC
20t - Squadron Command Bridge
40t - Space for Squadron Command Staff
50t - NF Devices x 2
25t - LR Radio
100t - 4 x Armed Floatplane
10t - 2 x Catapult
Deck is 85mm with 15mm Splinter, FC and QD Monolithic
Belt is 250mm Upper half, Tapering to 200mm in Lower 2m (Underwater Portion)
The variant with a pair of the triple 14in turrets. Upside.....massive effects on target. Downside.....2 fewer guns, fewer shells per gun, slower rate of fire, 2700t more weight for the same ship. Now, Overkill is Underrated, but I think that the 11in guns will wind up being more effective than the 14in guns because they'll be able to get on target faster and get telling hits faster......even if they can't penetrate battleship armor at range.....
Though I'm definitely up for thoughts.....should I arm a ship like this so it's capable of taking down a battleship......rather than doctrinally wanting it to evade rather than fight.
Ends: 2.76" / 70 mm 264.07 ft / 80.49 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 490.49 ft / 149.50 m 24.64 ft / 7.51 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.46 ft / 23.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.2" / 260 mm 5.51" / 140 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 1.06" / 27 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 2.76" / 70 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 138,780 shp / 103,530 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,195 tons
Complement:
1,132 - 1,472
Cost:
£10.803 million / $43.211 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,998 tons, 6.7 %
- Guns: 1,998 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 8,671 tons, 29.1 %
- Belts: 3,238 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 528 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 1,364 tons, 4.6 %
- Armour Deck: 3,297 tons, 11.1 %
- Conning Towers: 244 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 4,096 tons, 13.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,906 tons, 36.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,650 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 426 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull above water: 131 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
- Above deck: 185 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38,775 lbs / 17,588 Kg = 27.2 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 5.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 17.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.537
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.67 ft / 6.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.4 %
Waterplane Area: 49,177 Square feet or 4,569 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 852 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.11
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
181t - 1918 FC
20t - Squadron Command Bridge
40t - Space for Squadron Command Staff
50t - NF Devices x 2
25t - LR Radio
100t - 4 x Armed Floatplane
10t - 2 x Catapult
Deck is 85mm with 15mm Splinter, FC and QD Monolithic
Belt is 250mm Upper half, Tapering to 200mm in Lower 2m (Underwater Portion)
And fiddling with ideas using a new and improved gun beyond the 400mm/45....provided we decide to go with a bigger gun than that period:
Super BB X, Aztec Battleship laid down 1932
Displacement:
58,438 t light; 61,403 t standard; 64,954 t normal; 67,795 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(926.11 ft / 918.64 ft) x 131.23 ft x (32.51 / 33.66 ft)
(282.28 m / 280.00 m) x 40.00 m x (9.91 / 10.26 m)
Armament:
8 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,804.10lbs / 1,271.92kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
32 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
32 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 23,422 lbs / 10,624 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.2" / 385 mm 597.11 ft / 182.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
2.36" / 60 mm 597.11 ft / 182.00 m 30.94 ft / 9.43 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 104.99 ft / 32.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.5" / 420 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.54" / 166 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 11.81" / 300 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 192,387 shp / 143,521 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,391 tons
Complement:
2,033 - 2,644
Cost:
£22.941 million / $91.764 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,533 tons, 7.0 %
- Guns: 4,533 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 21,707 tons, 33.4 %
- Belts: 6,391 tons, 9.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,615 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 3,675 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 9,204 tons, 14.2 %
- Conning Towers: 822 tons, 1.3 %
Machinery: 5,678 tons, 8.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 24,237 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,516 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,283 tons, 3.5 %
- Hull below water: 1,519 tons
- Hull above water: 227 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
- Above deck: 427 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
100,213 lbs / 45,456 Kg = 36.0 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 18.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 10.1 ft / 3.1 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.580 / 0.585
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.31 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.11 ft / 6.74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.9 %
Waterplane Area: 86,537 Square feet or 8,040 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 236 lbs/sq ft or 1,154 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.05
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
454t - 1918 FC
75t - NF Devices x 3
25t - LR Radio
100t - Flag Bridge
200t - Flag Quarters and Habitability Improvements
100t - Additional DC Equipment
110t - 4 x Armed Floatplane w/ 2 x Catapult
1419t - Electric Drives
Deck is 140mm with an 26mm Splinter
QD is a Box over the Shaft Runs and Steering Gear Only
Belt is 400mm in upper half, tapering to 340mm in lower half.
Range is 11500nm at 14kts
And yes, that's a full 6 year build ship there.....
The decision for me is, whether to look at having a very few of these extremely powerful battleships.....or working up the smaller ships.....or even doing both.
I just ran the guns through Parallel Ballistics in comparison with my 400/45.
The majority of existing BBs run a belt somewhere around 340mm, some go as high as 380mm, and with angling some will probably give you around 400-410mm of protection.
The 450/45 can punch literally anything at 24,000m.....and can pierce 340mm belts at 30,000m. Basically if the 450 can hit you, the 450 can penetrate you.
The 400/45 can punch anything at 17,000m.....and can pierce 340mm belt at 21,000m. Most of the time, if 400 can hit you, 400 can penetrate you.
The 360/45 can punch anything at 12,000m.....and can pierce 340mm belt at 16,000m. It's still a good shell, but it's really overshadowed by the massive guns for being able to reliably punch through armor and end an enemy vessel in just a few hits.
That penetrating power is definitely a consideration for me as well.
I find that requires a really big hull, though - your example wouldn't fit through the Trans-Eryka Canal as it stands, and I have similar problems with my 450mm designs.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 30, 2023, 08:27:12 PM
That penetrating power is definitely a consideration for me as well.
I find that requires a really big hull, though - your example wouldn't fit through the Trans-Eryka Canal as it stands, and I have similar problems with my 450mm designs.
I really do feel the catch 22 the Japanese felt when they designed Yamato. Either I build a fully conventional fleet that cam do well against the Mayans but would struggle against anybody else.....or I pursue ships that are budget killers but also capable of taking on the best in the world and winning. And new concepts like carriers.
Beginning to experiment with 'Aviation Cruisers'. Basing off of the Lake-class Frigate, this variant loses the rear half of the main armament and brings the forward superfiring turret down to the main deck to clear room for flight ops aft. The secondary goes to DP guns and on sponsons, along with quite a portion of the AA mounts, giving a 'gallery' all the way around the hangar. She loses 35mm of her belt, and loses the end belt protection, but maintains the TDS and the deck is changed to a protected deck with a slightly higher belt to ensure the deck slopes are covered and provide maximum protection against AP hits against her citadel spaces.
In exchange for the deletions.....she gains a full squadron of 12 aircraft, with 4 catapults to facilitate rapid launching and a landing deck aft that can also be used as a flying off deck (but the catapults are there to allow for closer to simultaneous launches). The anticipated air group would consist of one flight of scouts/bombers with two flights of fighters, and the mission profile would be as air cover for the screening force or independent cruiser squadrons rather than an attack force. This is a potential alternative to a redux of the Martinique-style 'light' carrier with 3-4 times the air group but no ability to independently behave as a cruiser or self-escort.
AC 1932, Aztec Through-Deck Cruiser laid down 1932
Displacement:
12,038 t light; 12,531 t standard; 13,866 t normal; 14,934 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(646.33 ft / 639.76 ft) x 70.54 ft x (19.91 / 21.11 ft)
(197.00 m / 195.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.07 / 6.44 m)
Armament:
6 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.39lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
4 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,549 lbs / 702 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 439.50 ft / 133.96 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 439.50 ft / 133.96 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 2.99" / 76 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.38" / 35 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - 0.98" / 25 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 3.15" / 80 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80,128 shp / 59,775 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,403 tons
Complement:
638 - 830
Cost:
£4.087 million / $16.348 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 447 tons, 3.2 %
- Guns: 447 tons, 3.2 %
Armour: 2,717 tons, 19.6 %
- Belts: 839 tons, 6.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 378 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 273 tons, 2.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,149 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Towers: 78 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,365 tons, 17.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,256 tons, 37.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,828 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,252 tons, 9.0 %
- Hull below water: 570 tons
- Hull above water: 570 tons
- On freeboard deck: 20 tons
- Above deck: 92 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,018 lbs / 11,802 Kg = 146.2 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.82
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.549
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 38.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Average freeboard: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 253.5 %
Waterplane Area: 31,201 Square feet or 2,899 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 523 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 1.98
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
20t - 4 x Catapult
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
44t - 1918 FC
950t - 12 x Aircraft (Expansion Space for 1933+ Aircraft allowed)
So far I've had trouble making flight-deck cruisers work for me, but it's interesting to see others try it.
I take it you envision a couple of waist catapults in addition to the bow-launchers?
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 01, 2023, 08:06:36 AM
So far I've had trouble making flight-deck cruisers work for me, but it's interesting to see others try it.
I take it you envision a couple of waist catapults in addition to the bow-launchers?
The idea is actually 4 side cats at deck level. Launch overtop the AA installations. To rapidly deploy maximum fighter coverage.
I'm still ambivalent. This ship is self escorting. But a martinique is so much more efficient on the tonnage with almost 4 times the flight group.
I'm going to have to review my cruisers to decide if I can afford to just mk2 martinique for the screen carrier role.
An alternate design. Only 8 aircraft, and they will have to be catapult launched floatplanes, though I've worked the freeboard to give them an actual hangar and hangar access. Upside.....there are now 9 x 180mm guns in the familiar ABC layout forward, and the top of the hangar is where a significant chunk of the AA battery sits, which gives it almost a 360 degree field of fire. So the previous one is more of a carrier-cruiser. This is more of a cruiser with the ability to deploy an airgroup that is at least functional with the full ability to maintain and sortie aircraft unlike ships that only have armed scouts/spotters.
Lake-class, Aztec Frigate laid down 1932
Displacement:
11,884 t light; 12,531 t standard; 13,866 t normal; 14,934 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(646.93 ft / 639.76 ft) x 70.54 ft x (19.91 / 21.11 ft)
(197.18 m / 195.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.07 / 6.44 m)
Armament:
9 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
18 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
6 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,179 lbs / 988 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 439.50 ft / 133.96 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.79" / 20 mm 439.50 ft / 133.96 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.12" / 130 mm 2.99" / 76 mm 4.53" / 115 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.38" / 35 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80,128 shp / 59,775 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,403 tons
Complement:
638 - 830
Cost:
£4.349 million / $17.395 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 639 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 639 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 2,818 tons, 20.3 %
- Belts: 934 tons, 6.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 252 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 433 tons, 3.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,149 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 49 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,365 tons, 17.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,137 tons, 37.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,982 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 926 tons, 6.7 %
- Hull below water: 380 tons
- Hull above water: 412 tons
- On freeboard deck: 52 tons
- Above deck: 82 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25,610 lbs / 11,616 Kg = 143.9 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.549
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 38.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.41 ft / 6.83 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 238.2 %
Waterplane Area: 31,201 Square feet or 2,899 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 571 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.37
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
32t - 2 x 4 x 21in HW TT on sides aft (Notched into sides)
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
64t - 1918 FC
760t - 8 x Floatplane Fighters/Bombers
10t - 2 x Catapult Quarterdeck
10t - Floatplane Recovery Crane Aft
And finally, in the trifecta of options for a carrier to put with the cruiser forces......I go directly away from something with cruiser armament, or even cruiser armor for the most part.....and go for a pure aircraft carrier with three squadrons (generally doctrine is to have 2 squadrons of fighters and 1 of bombers). Upside, 3 squadrons of aircraft and full handling facilities. Downside, requires an escorting cruiser.
Martinique, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1932
Displacement:
14,553 t light; 15,043 t standard; 16,355 t normal; 17,404 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(599.21 ft / 587.27 ft) x 68.90 ft x (25.26 / 26.55 ft)
(182.64 m / 179.00 m) x 21.00 m x (7.70 / 8.09 m)
Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 503 lbs / 228 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 405.22 ft / 123.51 m 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.79" / 20 mm 405.22 ft / 123.51 m 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 52.49 ft / 16.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 106,177 shp / 79,208 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,361 tons
Complement:
723 - 940
Cost:
£4.580 million / $18.321 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 149 tons, 0.9 %
- Guns: 149 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 1,983 tons, 12.1 %
- Belts: 573 tons, 3.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 260 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 61 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,063 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,134 tons, 19.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,782 tons, 35.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,801 tons, 11.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,505 tons, 21.4 %
- Hull below water: 1,710 tons
- Hull above water: 1,710 tons
- On freeboard deck: 10 tons
- Above deck: 75 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,750 lbs / 12,134 Kg = 507.4 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.567
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.23 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 6.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Average freeboard: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 246.4 %
Waterplane Area: 28,504 Square feet or 2,648 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 488 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.85
- Longitudinal: 4.49
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
3420t - 36 Aircraft (1933 Tech)
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio (for air group control)
15t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
10t - 2 x Deck Catapult Forward Port and Starboard
Main Battery is in ABXY Arrangement on Starboard Side with the Island.
AA Battery is in Sponson Galleries with 40mm mounts fore and aft on each sponson and 30mm pintles in the intervening gallery.
And since I'm working on this program of laying down a single BB every 2 years, I need something in between the 1928 HMS Conqueror....and the HMS Royal Sovereign monster in 1932. So a revision of the Conqueror, the engineering improvements allow for a belt that's 25mm thicker (though tapered), and a slightly thicker TDS. Otherwise they're basically as close to twins as we're likely to see in this new method of building battleships for the RAN:
Vanguard (As Built), Aztec Fast Battleship laid down 1930
Displacement:
46,140 t light; 48,331 t standard; 51,421 t normal; 53,894 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(865.16 ft / 853.02 ft) x 121.39 ft x (31.04 / 32.22 ft)
(263.70 m / 260.00 m) x 37.00 m x (9.46 / 9.82 m)
Armament:
8 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,969.41lbs / 893.31kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
10 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.09lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
32 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
16 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,313 lbs / 7,853 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.5" / 370 mm 554.46 ft / 169.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 3.15" / 80 mm 298.52 ft / 90.99 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined -10.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.22" / 31 mm 554.46 ft / 169.00 m 28.28 ft / 8.62 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 95.14 ft / 29.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 14.2" / 360 mm
2nd: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 5.91" / 150 mm
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 3.15" / 80 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 168,927 shp / 126,019 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,563 tons
Complement:
1,706 - 2,219
Cost:
£16.565 million / $66.261 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,512 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 3,512 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 18,160 tons, 35.3 %
- Belts: 6,065 tons, 11.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 708 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 3,889 tons, 7.6 %
- Armour Deck: 7,147 tons, 13.9 %
- Conning Towers: 352 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 5,119 tons, 10.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,465 tons, 35.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,281 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 885 tons, 1.7 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- Hull above water: 375 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
80,702 lbs / 36,606 Kg = 41.3 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 12.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.565
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.03 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.16 ft / 6.76 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179.9 %
Waterplane Area: 72,947 Square feet or 6,777 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 210 lbs/sq ft or 1,025 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
100t - DC Pumps and Equipment
100t - Additional DC Equipment
100t - Flag Accommodations
110t - 4 x Armed Floatplane and 2 x Catapult Aft
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
50t - NF Devices x 2
350t - FC 1918
40t - Flag Bridge
Forecastle and Quarterdecks Monolithic. Main deck 120mm with a 30mm Splinter Deck
Belt is 385mm in upper half, tapering in lower half to 325mm on bottom edge.
And sorry about the ship spam....I got inspired, and had the time for once to put hours into just designing.
No need to apologize, ships are why we're here.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 02, 2023, 06:23:05 AM
No need to apologize, ships are why we're here.
No worries. I look forward to having them picked apart and all of their flaws noted.
Looking at Rocky's 'rapid build carrier', I fiddled one up that meets my standards. It's not a gunfighter, and doesn't have any armor to speak of. But 30kts, 20 aircraft, 3 HY Completion Time......and under 150m length so she can be built in any of my DD-CL docks instead of in my capital ship docks.
Escort Carrier, Aztec Escort Carrier laid down 1931
Displacement:
7,938 t light; 8,255 t standard; 9,285 t normal; 10,108 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(490.94 ft / 479.00 ft) x 57.22 ft x (22.80 / 24.35 ft)
(149.64 m / 146.00 m) x 17.44 m x (6.95 / 7.42 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 243 lbs / 110 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 70,548 shp / 52,629 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,853 tons
Complement:
472 - 614
Cost:
£2.580 million / $10.322 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 60 tons, 0.6 %
- Guns: 60 tons, 0.6 %
Armour: 47 tons, 0.5 %
- Armament: 47 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,110 tons, 22.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,746 tons, 40.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,347 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,976 tons, 21.3 %
- Hull below water: 950 tons
- Hull above water: 950 tons
- On freeboard deck: 10 tons
- Above deck: 66 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,457 lbs / 6,557 Kg = 649.9 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.530
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.37 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Average freeboard: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 246.3 %
Waterplane Area: 18,600 Square feet or 1,728 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 145 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 392 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.78
- Longitudinal: 9.39
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
6t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
10t - 2 x Foredeck Catapult
1900t - 20 x Aircraft (1933 Tech Compatible)
QuoteLooking at Rocky's 'rapid build carrier', I fiddled one up that meets my standards. It's not a gunfighter, and doesn't have any armor to speak of. But 30kts, 20 aircraft, 3 HY Completion Time......and under 150m length so she can be built in any of my DD-CL docks instead of in my capital ship docks.
These small aircraft carriers are an interesting solution because they multiply the number of flat decks and only require a few BP.
Quote from: Jefgte on October 03, 2023, 01:03:08 AM
QuoteLooking at Rocky's 'rapid build carrier', I fiddled one up that meets my standards. It's not a gunfighter, and doesn't have any armor to speak of. But 30kts, 20 aircraft, 3 HY Completion Time......and under 150m length so she can be built in any of my DD-CL docks instead of in my capital ship docks.
These small aircraft carriers are an interesting solution because they multiply the number of flat decks and only require a few BP.
They are interesting. Mostly for the speed of construction. The problem is doctrine, and the question is whether to just spend the extra hy to build a somewhat larger carrier with double the flight group.
For me the small fry are largely about coverage rather than concentration. Four wee decks lack the firepower of one big one but can be in multiple places and observe a larger area.
I'll get to the big lads in the thirties.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 03, 2023, 09:22:02 AM
For me the small fry are largely about coverage rather than concentration. Four wee decks lack the firepower of one big one but can be in multiple places and observe a larger area.
I'll get to the big lads in the thirties.
If the question is no flattops or flattops, I concur that even small and weak flattop is better than no flattop. I'm just debating whether doctrinally these work for me. Basically what I really need in my situation are the Armoured Carriers like the Illustrious class. But that's not really doable right now, so for now I'm doing other options. Doctrinally for the Sultanate, outside of convoy escort, I just don't really find a good place to slot these in, not when I have somewhat larger Martinique-class carriers with a lot more utility and survivability. If I had a need to put real carriers worldwide though, in some ways like Vilnius or Parthia or Byzantium have to do, it would make a lot more sense.
In the end, I don't think that I'll be doing a completely unarmored small escort carrier myself, in favor of cruiser-carriers for colonial and scouting force duties, Seaplane Tenders for colonial duties, and light and fleet carriers for the Scouting and Battle force respectively.
For Byzantium, these small 9000t aircraft carriers will be assigned to the aerial protection of the fleet and reconnaissance.
Equipped only with fighters, no bombers, no torpedo boats.
The defense and protection of the fleet vs bombers and torpedoes will be their priority.
These fighters could possibly carry small bombs (2x25kg max) to carry out small attack missions.
In addition, they will be able to recover planes from other damaged large aircraft carriers and... save pilots.
Quote from: Jefgte on October 03, 2023, 01:03:08 AM
QuoteLooking at Rocky's 'rapid build carrier', I fiddled one up that meets my standards. It's not a gunfighter, and doesn't have any armor to speak of. But 30kts, 20 aircraft, 3 HY Completion Time......and under 150m length so she can be built in any of my DD-CL docks instead of in my capital ship docks.
These small aircraft carriers are an interesting solution because they multiply the number of flat decks and only require a few BP.
After I'm done with the initial run of Bazdari class fighter carriers...which are essentially this style, I may follow the same light carrier path.
USN exercises found carriers to be very vulnerable to a number of things - not just surface combatants (as plane ranges were so short, they needed to be near the 'front'), but particularly to first strike taking out decks. I expect that would be apparent in our nations exercises.
Also, we lack the treaty forcing conversion of BBs/BCs to CVs and the subsequent 'large' carriers which gave operation experience on large airgroups ...it's all missing.
So..lots of small dispersed platforms, multiplying the launch rate - after all a bigger carrier doesn't launch faster- and dispersing the vulnerability seems like a logical path
I will indulge in a couple strike platforms, just to get a full bomber squadron off, and those I'm thinking I'll have their 'sides' as walls of casemented AA guns.
To which my mode is to go with something bigger, but a lot more capable and survivable. Though still 'light' enough that it's only a 2 year build. Such as this....the foc'stle takeoff deck may wind up being a feature and not a bug, if it allows for even faster deployment of escorting fighters.
Martinique Mk2, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1932
Displacement:
14,997 t light; 15,488 t standard; 17,016 t normal; 18,239 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(615.88 ft / 609.91 ft) x 68.90 ft x (26.25 / 27.72 ft)
(187.72 m / 185.90 m) x 21.00 m x (8.00 / 8.45 m)
Armament:
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 336 lbs / 152 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: Unarmoured
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.02" / 26 mm 420.83 ft / 128.27 m 23.92 ft / 7.29 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 52.49 ft / 16.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.38" / 35 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 92,285 shp / 68,844 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,300nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,751 tons
Complement:
744 - 968
Cost:
£4.227 million / $16.907 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 77 tons, 0.5 %
- Guns: 77 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 1,744 tons, 10.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 381 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 71 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,264 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,724 tons, 16.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,500 tons, 32.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,019 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4,953 tons, 29.1 %
- Hull below water: 2,410 tons
- Hull above water: 2,410 tons
- On freeboard deck: 65 tons
- Above deck: 68 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,414 lbs / 13,342 Kg = 1,322.4 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 6.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Average freeboard: 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 244.0 %
Waterplane Area: 29,053 Square feet or 2,699 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 494 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.87
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
4560t - 48 x Aircraft (1933 Compatible) (2F sqn, 1B Sqn, 1 Scouting Squadron)
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio (for air group control)
8t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
15t - 2 x Catapult on Main Flight Deck. 1 x Catapult on Fo'cstle Flight Deck.
50t - On Deck Firefighting Equipment
100t - In Hangar Firefighting Equipment
100t - Additional Pumps and Damage Control Equipment
60t - Additional External Ventilation and Fans
Fo'cstle deck is take-off deck leading into Hangar.
And in the vein of something that can be produced quickly and cheaply, though still with some level of protection. Note that while being about 3/4 the tonnage of the Martinique, and having far less protection and facilities, these give less than half the air group. Economies of scale just work on a carrier unfortunately. The point is conceded that a lot of flight decks can be valuable, and I may wind up laying these down as an option before 1931.5 brings about my ability to lay down ships with DP weapons. Air group would be 12 Fighters, 6 Attack Aircraft, and 4 Scouts
CVE Experimental, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1930
Displacement:
9,018 t light; 9,350 t standard; 10,484 t normal; 11,391 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(574.40 ft / 563.65 ft) x 59.06 ft x (19.69 / 21.04 ft)
(175.08 m / 171.80 m) x 18.00 m x (6.00 / 6.41 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 306 lbs / 139 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.26" / 32 mm - -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Box over magazines:
2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.26" / 32 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80,815 shp / 60,288 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,041 tons
Complement:
517 - 673
Cost:
£2.839 million / $11.354 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 72 tons, 0.7 %
- Guns: 72 tons, 0.7 %
Armour: 118 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 47 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 58 tons, 0.6 %
- Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 2,449 tons, 23.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,113 tons, 39.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,466 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,266 tons, 21.6 %
- Hull below water: 1,070 tons
- Hull above water: 1,095 tons
- On freeboard deck: 35 tons
- Above deck: 66 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,240 lbs / 7,366 Kg = 532.3 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.569
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.54 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 6.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 255.1 %
Waterplane Area: 23,449 Square feet or 2,178 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 410 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.85
- Longitudinal: 4.33
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
6t - 1918 FC
10t - 2 x Catapult on Flight Deck
25t - Additional Firefighting Equipment and DC Equipment on Deck
25t - Additional Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
25t - Additional Ventilation
25t - Additional DC Pumps
2090t - 22 x Aircraft (1933 Compatible)
And then we have this. Neither fish nor fowl. 33% heavier than the CVE, slightly lighter than the Light Fleet Carrier. Is armored like a cruiser, has a 16 plane air group. But incidentally also has half the main armament of a Town-class Cruiser, with 2 x Triple 180s forward (though not superfiring). With only 16 in the air group, I can't do a traditional squadron split. I'd probably do 10 fighters and 6 attack/recon aircraft (Torpedo Bombers early on, advancing to Dive Bombers when the tech improves).
AC 1932, Aztec Through-Deck Cruiser laid down 1930
Displacement:
12,500 t light; 13,003 t standard; 14,391 t normal; 15,501 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(646.33 ft / 639.76 ft) x 70.54 ft x (20.67 / 21.91 ft)
(197.00 m / 195.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.30 / 6.68 m)
Armament:
6 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
12 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
4 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,552 lbs / 704 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 435.04 ft / 132.60 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 435.04 ft / 132.60 m 18.83 ft / 5.74 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 2.99" / 76 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.38" / 35 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.17" / 55 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 81,864 shp / 61,070 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,498 tons
Complement:
656 - 854
Cost:
£3.886 million / $15.546 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 435 tons, 3.0 %
- Guns: 435 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 2,530 tons, 17.6 %
- Belts: 811 tons, 5.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 358 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 258 tons, 1.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,053 tons, 7.3 %
- Conning Tower: 50 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,481 tons, 17.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,341 tons, 37.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,891 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,712 tons, 11.9 %
- Hull below water: 790 tons
- Hull above water: 790 tons
- On freeboard deck: 40 tons
- Above deck: 92 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,933 lbs / 12,670 Kg = 157.0 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.84
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.549
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 38.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Average freeboard: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 246.5 %
Waterplane Area: 31,201 Square feet or 2,899 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 526 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.99
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
AW
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
44t - 1918 FC
OD
20t - 4 x Catapult (On Sides of Deck)
20t - Additional Firefighting Equipment on the Flight Deck
AW
30t - Additional Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
760t - Aviation (Total Flight Group 16 Aircraft, 1933 Tech Compatible)
BW
30t - Additional DC Equipment and Pumps
760t - Aviation Support
Handy that the air group limits from the waterplane area and miscellaneous weight are equal.
Not a bad combo overall.
Yep. I think I'm 2 aircraft shy of the Waterplane limit for the aviation cruiser. But without making a substantially larger ship, that's the best I can do. The 6 x 180 isn't ideal, but without a quad, it's just too much boat to put both a full gun battery and a working flight Complement. If you look back you can see a seaplane carrier with hangar that can function as a full up cruiser.
Thing I do like about this aviation cruiser versus the first variant I designed......I go back to having a functional deck and belt instead of relying on a protective deck to support the belt.
Quote from: TacCovert4 on October 03, 2023, 05:19:08 PM
....the foc'stle takeoff deck may wind up being a feature and not a bug, if it allows for even faster deployment of escorting fighters.
I'm rather intending on having flying off decks for at least a while. They were less successful than expected, and seem to have passed out of regular use with monoplanes. Though the desire to quickly get planes off led
Enterprise to have a broadside catapult !
I'll actually scrutinize the various designs later :)
With multiple large hulls being laid down in this timeframe, a new lighter 'frigate' type needs to be designed since it is unlikely that continuous production of the Lake class will be possible.
Planet Class, Aztec Frigate laid down 1932
Displacement:
7,836 t light; 8,275 t standard; 9,196 t normal; 9,932 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(527.81 ft / 521.65 ft) x 55.77 ft x (21.27 / 22.58 ft)
(160.88 m / 159.00 m) x 17.00 m x (6.48 / 6.88 m)
Armament:
8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
10 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,725 lbs / 782 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.53" / 115 mm 391.24 ft / 119.25 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 130.38 ft / 39.74 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.79" / 20 mm 391.24 ft / 119.25 m 20.41 ft / 6.22 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 2.36" / 60 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
3rd: 1.06" / 27 mm 1.06" / 27 mm 1.06" / 27 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.53" / 115 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 75,795 shp / 56,543 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,658 tons
Complement:
469 - 610
Cost:
£3.453 million / $13.814 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 410 tons, 4.5 %
- Guns: 410 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 2,219 tons, 24.1 %
- Belts: 933 tons, 10.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 233 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 181 tons, 2.0 %
- Armour Deck: 829 tons, 9.0 %
- Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,237 tons, 24.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,755 tons, 30.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,360 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 214 tons, 2.3 %
- Hull above water: 61 tons
- On freeboard deck: 83 tons
- Above deck: 70 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,432 lbs / 4,278 Kg = 53.0 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.529
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.35 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 17.22 ft / 5.25 m, 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Average freeboard: 19.21 ft / 5.85 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.2 %
Waterplane Area: 19,745 Square feet or 1,834 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 435 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.85
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
41t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
30t - 1 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships
32t - 2 x 4 x 21in HW TT Aft
60t - Additional Power T&E Equipment for Main Battery
Princess Royal, Aztec Razee laid down 1931
Displacement:
18,290 t light; 19,241 t standard; 21,008 t normal; 22,422 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(726.70 ft / 721.78 ft) x 85.30 ft x (21.33 / 22.47 ft)
(221.50 m / 220.00 m) x 26.00 m x (6.50 / 6.85 m)
Armament:
9 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 446.53lbs / 202.54kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,851 lbs / 2,201 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Ends: 3.15" / 80 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 19.16 ft / 5.84 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.09" / 180 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 5.51" / 140 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 3.35" / 85 mm
Forecastle: 1.06" / 27 mm Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.53" / 115 mm, Aft 4.53" / 115 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 108,216 shp / 80,729 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,181 tons
Complement:
872 - 1,134
Cost:
£6.991 million / $27.964 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,465 tons, 7.0 %
- Guns: 1,465 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 5,683 tons, 27.1 %
- Belts: 1,939 tons, 9.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 393 tons, 1.9 %
- Armament: 815 tons, 3.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,388 tons, 11.4 %
- Conning Towers: 149 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,236 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,606 tons, 36.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,718 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 299 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull above water: 71 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 128 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,757 lbs / 15,312 Kg = 80.0 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.567
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.67 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197.3 %
Waterplane Area: 43,374 Square feet or 4,030 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 684 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.02
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
149t - 1918 FC
40t - 2x5x21in HW TT on sides Aft
60t - 2 x Catapult and Armed Floatplane
This is most definitely a first draft of the next step from the Uhlans.
The Mk1 Uhlans have a 180mm belt. The Mk2 Uhlans only have a 127mm belt. Generally the Mk2 Uhlans are more lightly protected in exchange for a heavier secondary battery of 130mm guns, a heavier anti-air suite, 2 extra torpedoes, 2 floatplanes, and a savings of around 1500 tons for construction.
My aim with this class is to get all of the firepower improvements anticipated in 1931 into a cruiser, keep it with around the same speed if not slightly faster, and get the armor scheme as close to or at the Uhlan scheme as possible.
But I also have to consider the cost, because I have multiple large building projects and refit projects that will be going on simultaneously.
The Mk2 Uhlan cost ~3300t per HY for 5HY
The Mk1 Uhlan cost ~3500t per HY for 5HY
With the modifications I already know I need to make to increase the armor a bit, this ship is going to cost 3800t per HY for 5HY
I guess the fun question to pose to everyone is thus:
A) Do I go with the 90mm DPAA for the primary secondary battery, that'll save a LOT of tonnage that I can put into protection or speed and either cut weight closer to the Mk1 Uhlan or keep the weight the same and have a better protected and faster cruiser?
B) Do I do other things to save weight?
C) Is a 140mm inclined belt with an 85mm deck more than sufficient to the task (fighting cruisers up to light battlecruisers with guns that are tending between 220-260mm (though my own ones have 280mm guns too))?
D) Do I increase the ship's size to about 21200 tons, which is ~3550 tons per HY for 6HY, take the 6 months more of build time and potentially take this ship up to 12 x 240mm guns?
QuoteD) Do I increase the ship's size to about 21200 tons, which is ~3550 tons per HY for 6HY, take the 6 months more of build time and potentially take this ship up to 12 x 240mm guns?
2 set of 2T3x240 allows you to engage 2 targets at the same time.
---------------------------
Byzantium had a 18000t panzerschiff project for 1929.
2T3x343 + 6T2x120 + 24x40 + 24x12.7 + 2x3TTx533 HW
B230-40 - Bkh45 - D90-30
T255-75 - Bbte 230
29kts - 12000nm@12kts
This ship will not be built because Byzantium is preparing complementary ships for Australia conquest.
Quote from: Jefgte on November 04, 2023, 10:43:42 AM
QuoteD) Do I increase the ship's size to about 21200 tons, which is ~3550 tons per HY for 6HY, take the 6 months more of build time and potentially take this ship up to 12 x 240mm guns?
2 set of 2T3x240 allows you to engage 2 targets at the same time.
---------------------------
Byzantium had a 18000t panzerschiff project for 1929.
2T3x343 + 6T2x120 + 24x40 + 24x12.7 + 2x3TTx533 HW
B230-40 - Bkh45 - D90-30
T255-75 - Bbte 230
29kts - 12000nm@12kts
This ship will not be built because Byzantium is preparing complementary ships for Australia conquest.
Good point. The upsize might give more capability.
I have been playing with a 2T3 360, 30kt, but I need to get it under 27,000t or its not viable for my build program.
Quote from: Jefgte on November 04, 2023, 10:43:42 AM
QuoteD) Do I increase the ship's size to about 21200 tons, which is ~3550 tons per HY for 6HY, take the 6 months more of build time and potentially take this ship up to 12 x 240mm guns?
2 set of 2T3x240 allows you to engage 2 targets at the same time.
A 6HY ship:
Princess Royal, Aztec Razee laid down 1931
Displacement:
21,116 t light; 22,244 t standard; 24,167 t normal; 25,706 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(759.51 ft / 754.59 ft) x 88.58 ft x (22.97 / 24.12 ft)
(231.50 m / 230.00 m) x 27.00 m x (7.00 / 7.35 m)
Armament:
12 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 446.53lbs / 202.54kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 6,303 lbs / 2,859 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.69" / 170 mm 490.49 ft / 149.50 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 2.95" / 75 mm 264.07 ft / 80.49 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 490.49 ft / 149.50 m 21.10 ft / 6.43 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 68.90 ft / 21.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.69" / 170 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 3.35" / 85 mm
Forecastle: 1.06" / 27 mm Quarter deck: 1.26" / 32 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.53" / 115 mm, Aft 4.53" / 115 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 108,060 shp / 80,613 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,461 tons
Complement:
968 - 1,259
Cost:
£8.073 million / $32.290 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,907 tons, 7.9 %
- Guns: 1,907 tons, 7.9 %
Armour: 6,727 tons, 27.8 %
- Belts: 2,182 tons, 9.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 603 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 1,218 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 2,561 tons, 10.6 %
- Conning Towers: 163 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,231 tons, 13.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,834 tons, 36.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,051 tons, 12.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 416 tons, 1.7 %
- Hull above water: 96 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 220 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38,811 lbs / 17,604 Kg = 92.0 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.551 / 0.558
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.67 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 191.3 %
Waterplane Area: 46,693 Square feet or 4,338 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 747 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 0.99
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
50t - NF Devices x 2
191t - 1918 FC
50t - Squadron Flagship Facilities
40t - 2x5x21in HW TT on sides Aft
60t - 2 x Catapult and Armed Floatplane
Alternately, this is more like the original Uhlan's protection scheme:
Uhlan, Aztec Razee laid down 1931
Displacement:
17,663 t light; 18,475 t standard; 20,174 t normal; 21,533 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(655.84 ft / 650.92 ft) x 85.30 ft x (22.31 / 23.51 ft)
(199.90 m / 198.40 m) x 26.00 m x (6.80 / 7.17 m)
Armament:
9 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 446.53lbs / 202.54kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
20 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,850 lbs / 2,200 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.89" / 175 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 3.15" / 80 mm 227.79 ft / 69.43 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 20.73 ft / 6.32 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 4.33" / 110 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.54" / 90 mm
Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.33" / 110 mm, Aft 4.33" / 110 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 104,392 shp / 77,876 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,059 tons
Complement:
846 - 1,100
Cost:
£6.852 million / $27.406 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,480 tons, 7.3 %
- Guns: 1,480 tons, 7.3 %
Armour: 5,836 tons, 28.9 %
- Belts: 1,931 tons, 9.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 511 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 929 tons, 4.6 %
- Armour Deck: 2,327 tons, 11.5 %
- Conning Towers: 138 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,122 tons, 15.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,928 tons, 34.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,511 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 297 tons, 1.5 %
- Hull above water: 72 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 125 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
30,782 lbs / 13,963 Kg = 73.0 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.577
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.67 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.1 %
Waterplane Area: 39,484 Square feet or 3,668 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 687 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices (1918)
147t - 1918 FC
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on sides
60t - 2 x Armed Floatplane and 2 x Catapult
Continuing to work on designs for cruisers, and needing a general purpose corvette to handle most jobs in lieu of the big frigates or Razees, this has come up:
Shark, Aztec Corvette laid down 1931
Displacement:
7,584 t light; 7,973 t standard; 8,997 t normal; 9,817 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(563.90 ft / 557.74 ft) x 59.06 ft x (18.18 / 19.45 ft)
(171.88 m / 170.00 m) x 18.00 m x (5.54 / 5.93 m)
Armament:
6 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck aft
1 x 4 row quad mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,362 lbs / 618 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 390.42 ft / 119.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Box over machinery & magazines:
2.76" / 70 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 82,984 shp / 61,906 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,844 tons
Complement:
461 - 600
Cost:
£3.262 million / $13.048 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 320 tons, 3.6 %
- Guns: 320 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 1,697 tons, 18.9 %
- Belts: 247 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 114 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,299 tons, 14.4 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,482 tons, 27.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,890 tons, 32.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,413 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 197 tons, 2.2 %
- Hull above water: 46 tons
- On freeboard deck: 85 tons
- Above deck: 66 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,011 lbs / 4,087 Kg = 50.6 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.526 / 0.536
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 19.32 ft / 5.89 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.1 %
Waterplane Area: 22,477 Square feet or 2,088 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 424 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 1.22
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on Sides Aft
32t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
30t - 1 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships betwixt funnels
45t - Additional Powered T&E for Main Battery
And something smaller, lighter, and admittedly less protected.....but capable of bringing 8 x 180mm guns to bear in the Caribbean....cheaply
Town-Class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1931
Displacement:
5,792 t light; 6,127 t standard; 6,653 t normal; 7,074 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(488.44 ft / 482.28 ft) x 59.06 ft x (15.55 / 16.31 ft)
(148.88 m / 147.00 m) x 18.00 m x (4.74 / 4.97 m)
Armament:
8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 160 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,730 lbs / 785 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines:
3.15" / 80 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 50,355 shp / 37,565 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 947 tons
Complement:
367 - 478
Cost:
£2.553 million / $10.211 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 398 tons, 6.0 %
- Guns: 398 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 1,198 tons, 18.0 %
- Armament: 102 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,073 tons, 16.1 %
- Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,506 tons, 22.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,500 tons, 37.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 861 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 189 tons, 2.8 %
- Hull above water: 60 tons
- On freeboard deck: 60 tons
- Above deck: 69 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,484 lbs / 3,848 Kg = 47.7 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.526 / 0.533
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 38.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 202.2 %
Waterplane Area: 19,431 Square feet or 1,805 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 90 lbs/sq ft or 437 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 1.78
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
39t - 1918 FC
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
60t - Electric T&E for Main Battery
It's a lot of firepower for its size, but the speed would concern me. But you probably figured that already.
A compact and powerful vessel with reduced displacement => Excellent
;)
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on November 07, 2023, 02:43:33 PM
It's a lot of firepower for its size, but the speed would concern me. But you probably figured that already.
Speed is a little low. But there's a lot of the fleet with speeds down there, so as a screen/escort vessel it has utility. I've trended towards 29-31kt cruisers anyway, the tonnage being burned to get 32kts is killing everything else.
And a quick note. The Constellation-class Carriers, laid down in 1929, will have their mid-construction automatic refit in early 1931 before they complete in the yards......pulling the deck-mounted 130mm LA-QF guns and 70mm AA guns in favor of deck-mounted 90mm DP guns and 40mm AA guns (not rotary, single guns). This installation is non-invasive and meets the rules for a mid-construction modification.
Constellation, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1929
Displacement:
22,767 t light; 23,373 t standard; 25,368 t normal; 26,964 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(762.51 ft / 754.59 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.08 / 27.38 ft)
(232.41 m / 230.00 m) x 25.00 m x (7.95 / 8.34 m)
Armament:
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 340 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
10 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 422 lbs / 192 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 603.67 ft / 184.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 150.89 ft / 45.99 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 603.67 ft / 184.00 m 24.08 ft / 7.34 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.97" / 50 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,996 shp / 105,183 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,591 tons
Complement:
1,004 - 1,306
Cost:
£5.723 million / $22.891 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 90 tons, 0.4 %
- Guns: 90 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 4,307 tons, 17.0 %
- Belts: 1,124 tons, 4.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 847 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 161 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 2,116 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,330 tons, 17.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,067 tons, 31.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,601 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,973 tons, 23.5 %
- Hull below water: 2,900 tons
- Hull above water: 2,948 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 75 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43,920 lbs / 19,922 Kg = 1,974.5 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 5.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.80
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.557
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 12.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 8.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 242.0 %
Waterplane Area: 43,194 Square feet or 4,013 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 559 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
13t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
5700t - 60 x Aircraft (Provision for heavier tech expansion)
50t BW - Additional Pumps
50t - On Deck Firefighting Equipment
100t AW - Hangar Firefighting Equipment
And looking at 1932 when the Constellation and Pleides complete, the third ship in the class, tentatively named Hydra. Notes are that the 30mm AA guns have been stripped in favor of no fewer than 6 of the 'new and hot' Rotary 40mm AA guns (that will prove to be less than the amazing shell hoses they're advertised as) and 5 twin 90mm DP guns on each 'gallery sponson'. Some of the notable things that are coming out with Aztec carrier design are a 5 squadron airgroup, a 'clean' deck unencumbered by guns with everything above deck being on the single island (this will prove a two edged sword.....nothing on deck to interfere with flight ops, but the entire armament split between two galleries means that against low-level attacks half the AA is completely useless at a time and fore and aft coverage is not amazing).
Constellation Mk2, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1932
Displacement:
22,661 t light; 23,428 t standard; 25,368 t normal; 26,920 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(762.51 ft / 754.59 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.08 / 27.34 ft)
(232.41 m / 230.00 m) x 25.00 m x (7.95 / 8.33 m)
Armament:
20 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 340 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
36 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
12 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 556 lbs / 252 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 603.67 ft / 184.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 150.89 ft / 45.99 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 603.67 ft / 184.00 m 24.08 ft / 7.34 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.97" / 50 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,996 shp / 105,183 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,493 tons
Complement:
1,004 - 1,306
Cost:
£6.437 million / $25.748 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 130 tons, 0.5 %
- Guns: 130 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 4,342 tons, 17.1 %
- Belts: 1,124 tons, 4.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 847 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 197 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,116 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,162 tons, 16.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,054 tons, 31.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,707 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,973 tons, 23.5 %
- Hull below water: 2,900 tons
- Hull above water: 2,948 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 75 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,190 lbs / 20,044 Kg = 1,986.7 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.557
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 12.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 8.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 242.0 %
Waterplane Area: 43,194 Square feet or 4,013 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 560 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
13t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
5700t - 60 x Aircraft (Provision for heavier tech expansion)
50t BW - Additional Pumps
50t - On Deck Firefighting Equipment
100t AW - Hangar Firefighting Equipment
And finally, this is the 'Through-Deck Cruiser' design, the Condor Class. Laid down in 1930 and designed originally with 100mm QF Secondaries with 200 RPG.....well before she even launches this will change to the final armament already in development of 90mm DP Secondaries, the 274 rounds per gun is the precise amount per gun to fill the same magazine space without going over.
Condor-Class, Aztec Through-Deck Cruiser laid down 1930
Displacement:
12,500 t light; 13,003 t standard; 14,391 t normal; 15,501 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(646.33 ft / 639.76 ft) x 70.54 ft x (20.67 / 21.91 ft)
(197.00 m / 195.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.30 / 6.68 m)
Armament:
6 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.39lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 265 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
4 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,453 lbs / 659 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 435.04 ft / 132.60 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 435.04 ft / 132.60 m 18.83 ft / 5.74 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 2.99" / 76 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.38" / 35 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.17" / 55 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 81,864 shp / 61,070 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,498 tons
Complement:
656 - 854
Cost:
£3.871 million / $15.485 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 428 tons, 3.0 %
- Guns: 428 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 2,526 tons, 17.5 %
- Belts: 809 tons, 5.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 358 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 256 tons, 1.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,053 tons, 7.3 %
- Conning Tower: 50 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,481 tons, 17.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,302 tons, 36.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,891 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,764 tons, 12.3 %
- Hull below water: 790 tons
- Hull above water: 790 tons
- On freeboard deck: 40 tons
- Above deck: 144 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,856 lbs / 12,635 Kg = 156.5 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.84
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.549
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 38.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Average freeboard: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 246.5 %
Waterplane Area: 31,201 Square feet or 2,899 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 522 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 1.98
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
AW
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
44t - 1918 FC
50t - Command Facilities
OD
20t - 4 x Catapult (On Sides of Deck)
20t - Additional Firefighting Equipment on the Flight Deck
AW
30t - Additional Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
760t - Aviation (Total Flight Group 16 Aircraft, 1933 Tech Compatible)
BW
30t - Additional DC Equipment and Pumps
760t - Aviation Support
Yeah, I've gone with the clean deck approach so far. Not surw if that will last or not.
And for something entirely different, another 'small ice-capable cruiser' for my more extreme-environment territories. I've only got one ship, the Penguin, capable of operating all-weather off Terra del Fuego. With the Toucans being scrapped, and my Salado-class not really being designed to deal with ice or other conditions down towards Antarctica, I need another small icebreaker. Super compact, and a generally functional if light armament, this is a patrol/customs/rescue ship, not a first-line warship.
Sea Lion, Aztec Icebreaker Cruiser laid down 1930
Displacement:
2,787 t light; 2,936 t standard; 3,236 t normal; 3,477 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(307.11 ft / 295.28 ft) x 39.37 ft x (14.76 / 15.70 ft)
(93.61 m / 90.00 m) x 12.00 m x (4.50 / 4.79 m)
Armament:
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 253 lbs / 115 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 191.93 ft / 58.50 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 103.31 ft / 31.49 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 191.93 ft / 58.50 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.36" / 60 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 19,999 shp / 14,919 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 541 tons
Complement:
213 - 278
Cost:
£0.882 million / $3.528 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 87 tons, 2.7 %
- Guns: 87 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 750 tons, 23.2 %
- Belts: 312 tons, 9.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 138 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 40 tons, 1.2 %
- Armour Deck: 245 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 606 tons, 18.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 940 tons, 29.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 450 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 404 tons, 12.5 %
- Hull below water: 206 tons
- Hull void weights: 10 tons
- Hull above water: 70 tons
- On freeboard deck: 60 tons
- Above deck: 58 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,075 lbs / 2,302 Kg = 96.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.660 / 0.667
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.11 ft / 5.22 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.9 %
Waterplane Area: 8,987 Square feet or 835 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 292 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.87
- Longitudinal: 3.67
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide
206t - Diesel Engines
(Range - 8750nm)
8t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
16t - 2x2x21in HW TT on Sides
4t - Additional Searchlights
40t - 2 x 10t Motor-Launch
20t - Berthing for 10 Additional Men (rescues/Seal Warriors)
30t - Enhanced Ship's Surgical Suite
20t - Additional DC/Firefighting Equipment
10t - Void - Crash Void Forward
Note: Ship is 10% stronger than required for increased bracing beyond normal cruisers of same size
I like it and endorse its construction.
Unfortunately, I don't have the huge yards and large BP/IC counts to push a lot of classes at once. So I'm already looking out at 1932 when the Constellations come out of the yards. I'm considering the option of running singleton classes of Constellation-type 'Strike Carriers'......but also looking at running classes of a Martinique variant that's smaller, more rapidly produced, etc.
For consideration, an updated Martinique. Benefit, it can be produced in 4HY, is cheaper per HY, and therefore gives me the potential of more hulls in the water. Downside, the air group is only 36 aircraft, which means a single Attack Squadron if I'm running a defensive fighter heavy airgroup as I expect I'll need to run.
Martinique Mk2, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1932
Displacement:
14,812 t light; 15,300 t standard; 16,780 t normal; 17,964 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(634.11 ft / 623.36 ft) x 72.18 ft x (23.95 / 25.28 ft)
(193.28 m / 190.00 m) x 22.00 m x (7.30 / 7.70 m)
Armament:
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
6 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 448 lbs / 203 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 430.12 ft / 131.10 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 193.21 ft / 58.89 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 430.12 ft / 131.10 m 21.92 ft / 6.68 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 91,351 shp / 68,148 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,664 tons
Complement:
736 - 958
Cost:
£4.214 million / $16.855 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 102 tons, 0.6 %
- Guns: 102 tons, 0.6 %
Armour: 2,687 tons, 16.0 %
- Belts: 674 tons, 4.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 412 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 56 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,501 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,696 tons, 16.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,577 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,968 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,750 tons, 22.3 %
- Hull below water: 1,810 tons
- Hull above water: 1,810 tons
- On freeboard deck: 60 tons
- Above deck: 70 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
31,675 lbs / 14,367 Kg = 1,424.0 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.545 / 0.553
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 6.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 238.8 %
Waterplane Area: 31,254 Square feet or 2,904 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 488 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.60
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
3420t - 36 Aircraft (1930+)
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio (for air group control)
10t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
10t - 2 x Catapult In Deck
50t - On Deck Firefighting Equipment
100t - In Hangar Firefighting Equipment
100t - Additional DC Pumps and Equipment
And the Updated Constellation. Basically 3700t for 4HY or 3780t for 6HY is the choice here.
Constellation Mk2, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1932
Displacement:
22,660 t light; 23,428 t standard; 25,368 t normal; 26,920 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(762.51 ft / 754.59 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.08 / 27.34 ft)
(232.41 m / 230.00 m) x 25.00 m x (7.95 / 8.33 m)
Armament:
20 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 340 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
36 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
12 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 556 lbs / 252 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 603.67 ft / 184.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 150.89 ft / 45.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 603.67 ft / 184.00 m 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.97" / 50 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,996 shp / 105,183 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,493 tons
Complement:
1,004 - 1,306
Cost:
£6.437 million / $25.747 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 130 tons, 0.5 %
- Guns: 130 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 4,300 tons, 17.0 %
- Belts: 1,109 tons, 4.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 842 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 197 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,116 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 4,162 tons, 16.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,036 tons, 31.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,708 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6,033 tons, 23.8 %
- Hull below water: 2,900 tons
- Hull above water: 2,950 tons
- On freeboard deck: 70 tons
- Above deck: 113 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,083 lbs / 19,996 Kg = 1,981.9 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 5.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.557
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 12.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 8.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 242.0 %
Waterplane Area: 43,194 Square feet or 4,013 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 559 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
13t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
40t - Expanded Bridge for Division Flagship
20t - 4 x Catapult on Deck (2 launches at a time, for rapid launching of Interceptors)
5700t - 60 x Aircraft (Provision for heavier tech expansion)
50t BW - Additional Pumps
50t - On Deck Firefighting Equipment
100t AW - Hangar Firefighting Equipment
The cost per turn is about the same. You get a bit more bang for the buck with the bigger ship.
So it's kind of a question of whether you need coverage (smaller hulls) or concentration (bigger hulls) right now.
Certainly you can build Connie iterations that are technically one-offs while still ensuring they're completely inter-operable. It's an approach I had moved to in the final years at Wesworld.
My view is that for the first several years there'd be an inertia about the ships. The martinique mk2 functionally only adds Catapults for emergency launches and a flush flight deck instead of the two level flight deck. A major design change wouldn't happen until more testing occurred.
I'll probably go with the smaller one, the idea being coverage and time to learn from the constellations.
Who knows, by the time we get around to the next iteration of 'big' carrier, I might be looking at a 27,000 tonner with a 2 level armored hangar.
Distinctly possible you will. I've gone up to about 24,000 so far but have not like my armored box outcomes.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 08, 2023, 01:34:39 PM
Distinctly possible you will. I've gone up to about 24,000 so far but have not like my armored box outcomes.
I concur. I tried to duplicate the Implacable, and the cost of the armored box is such that the air group was going to be less than 50 aircraft. On the same tonnage, an unarmored carrier, single hangar, powerful battery with 100t built in for additional AA at a later date if needed, all the bells and whistles, Flag Facilities and Quarters, and even an expanded maintenance shop for the aircraft, etc etc.....72 aircraft in the hangar and tonnage set aside for 8 deck parked aircraft.
Orion, Aztec Strike Carrier laid down 1934
Displacement:
26,999 t light; 27,871 t standard; 29,982 t normal; 31,671 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(755.24 ft / 738.19 ft) x 98.43 ft x (26.26 / 27.43 ft)
(230.20 m / 225.00 m) x 30.00 m x (8.00 / 8.36 m)
Armament:
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
6 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
14 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
6 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
Weight of broadside 978 lbs / 443 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 479.82 ft / 146.25 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 258.33 ft / 78.74 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 479.82 ft / 146.25 m 24.08 ft / 7.34 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 125,837 shp / 93,875 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,800 tons
Complement:
1,139 - 1,481
Cost:
£7.690 million / $30.762 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 284 tons, 0.9 %
- Guns: 284 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 5,299 tons, 17.7 %
- Belts: 1,090 tons, 3.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 673 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 118 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 3,377 tons, 11.3 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 3,620 tons, 12.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,338 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,983 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 8,458 tons, 28.2 %
- Hull below water: 4,000 tons
- Hull above water: 4,000 tons
- On freeboard deck: 220 tons
- Above deck: 238 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
60,004 lbs / 27,217 Kg = 1,138.1 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 7.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
Metacentric height 9.4 ft / 2.9 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.66
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.556
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 250.4 %
Waterplane Area: 50,706 Square feet or 4,711 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 620 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.48
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
28t - 1930 FC
50t - NF Devices x 2
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
100t - Flag Facilities
25t - Builder Reserve
20t - 4 x Catapult on Deck
100t - Additional Firefighting Equipment
100t - Builder Reserve
100t - Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
100t - Flag Quarters
3420t - Aircraft (72 Total)
100t - Additional Damage Control Equipment
100t - Aviation Repair Shop
3420 - Aircraft Support (72 Total)
760t - Additional Aircraft and support space for deck parking of up to 8 additional aircraft
Deck is 70mm Hangar Floor, with 30mm Splinter above Magazines and Machinery
What I'm leaning towards in 1932 is a pair of experimental ships. A Mk2 of the Martinique, with the 'kinks' worked out but a roundly similar airgroup and updates but nothing ground-breaking. The Constellations will be working up and involved in fleet exercises, so no Mk2 of the Constellations until they've had some sea time. Instead, only a single Mk2 Martinique will be laid down, concurrent with a 'through deck cruiser' of the Condor Class, which is experimenting with combination ships for providing scouts and fighters for the fleet screen or engaging in independent cruiser operations while having aircraft for self defense or limited strike. Basically the 16 aircraft flight group could be 16 fighters for the fleet screen CAP....or a split with bombing aircraft as an 'independent aviation cruiser' role.
Condor-Class, Aztec Through-Deck Cruiser laid down 1932
Displacement:
12,526 t light; 13,029 t standard; 14,391 t normal; 15,481 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(646.33 ft / 639.76 ft) x 70.54 ft x (20.67 / 21.89 ft)
(197.00 m / 195.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.30 / 6.67 m)
Armament:
6 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 265 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft deck forward
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,453 lbs / 659 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 435.04 ft / 132.60 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 435.04 ft / 132.60 m 18.83 ft / 5.74 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 54.13 ft / 16.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.38" / 35 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 81,864 shp / 61,070 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,452 tons
Complement:
656 - 854
Cost:
£4.171 million / $16.684 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 428 tons, 3.0 %
- Guns: 428 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 2,639 tons, 18.3 %
- Belts: 809 tons, 5.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 358 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 274 tons, 1.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,149 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 50 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,416 tons, 16.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,309 tons, 36.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,865 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,733 tons, 12.0 %
- Hull below water: 790 tons
- Hull above water: 790 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 103 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,367 lbs / 12,867 Kg = 159.4 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.84
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 38.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Average freeboard: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 246.5 %
Waterplane Area: 31,201 Square feet or 2,899 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 523 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 1.98
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
AD
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
43t - 1918 FC
10t - Additional SR Radio
OD
20t - 4 x Catapult (On Sides of Deck)
30t - Additional Firefighting Equipment on the Flight Deck
AW
30t - Additional Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
760t - Aviation (Total Flight Group 16 Aircraft, 1933 Tech Compatible)
BW
30t - Additional DC Equipment and Pumps
760t - Aviation Support
Can you raise the stem enough to get rid of the wet forward warning?
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 10, 2023, 12:16:28 PM
Can you raise the stem enough to get rid of the wet forward warning?
Unfortunately not. I've tested the bow all the way up to 8m, and it's still throwing that. It's just going to be one of the quirks of a combination cruiser, it's going to have some wash problems in heavy seas at high speeds.
And looking back at smaller cruisers for general purpose work. As a proper deck and belt are a bit beyond the abilities to get it under 6000t with an 8 gun main battery, sufficient secondary, torpedoes, and a scout plane.....I've gone with a 50mm magazine box backing the deck and belt to preclude hits from being catastrophic. I'll work up a version with a 6 gun battery (a la Arethusa) to see how much more can be crammed on.
Shark-Class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1932
Displacement:
5,917 t light; 6,283 t standard; 6,814 t normal; 7,238 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(488.44 ft / 482.28 ft) x 59.06 ft x (15.42 / 16.17 ft)
(148.88 m / 147.00 m) x 18.00 m x (4.70 / 4.93 m)
Armament:
8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 160 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,730 lbs / 785 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 347.24 ft / 105.84 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.77" / 45 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.02" / 26 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 59,380 shp / 44,297 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 956 tons
Complement:
374 - 487
Cost:
£2.836 million / $11.344 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 402 tons, 5.9 %
- Guns: 402 tons, 5.9 %
Armour: 962 tons, 14.1 %
- Belts: 389 tons, 5.7 %
- Armament: 111 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 440 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,753 tons, 25.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,527 tons, 37.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 897 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 273 tons, 4.0 %
- Hull below water: 61 tons
- Hull above water: 60 tons
- On freeboard deck: 82 tons
- Above deck: 70 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,982 lbs / 3,167 Kg = 39.2 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.543 / 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 42.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 201.4 %
Waterplane Area: 19,747 Square feet or 1,835 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 90 lbs/sq ft or 437 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 1.74
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
39t - 1918 FC
32t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
60t - Electric T&E for Main Battery
61t - 50mm Box over Magazines
25t - 1 x Armed Floatplane Amidships
5t - Catapult
Alternatively, better protected, 2 fewer main guns, roughly the same everything else.
Shark, Aztec Corvette laid down 1932
Displacement:
5,483 t light; 5,821 t standard; 6,661 t normal; 7,333 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(498.28 ft / 492.13 ft) x 52.49 ft x (17.03 / 18.36 ft)
(151.88 m / 150.00 m) x 16.00 m x (5.19 / 5.60 m)
Armament:
6 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck aft
1 x 4 row quad mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,358 lbs / 616 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.56" / 65 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over machinery & magazines:
1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 56,005 shp / 41,780 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,513 tons
Complement:
368 - 479
Cost:
£2.535 million / $10.140 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 318 tons, 4.8 %
- Guns: 318 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 1,168 tons, 17.5 %
- Belts: 355 tons, 5.3 %
- Armament: 104 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 686 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,653 tons, 24.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,154 tons, 32.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,178 tons, 17.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 189 tons, 2.8 %
- Hull above water: 46 tons
- On freeboard deck: 77 tons
- Above deck: 66 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,890 lbs / 3,125 Kg = 38.7 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.541
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.81 ft / 5.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.7 %
Waterplane Area: 17,695 Square feet or 1,644 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 398 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 1.39
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
32t - 2 x 4 x 21in HW TT on Sides Aft
32t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
30t - 1 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships betwixt funnels
45t - Additional Powered T&E for Main Battery
If you go with six guns on the original 5,900 t hull, what can you do with the rest of the parameters?
QuoteIf you go with six guns on the original 5,900 t hull, what can you do with the rest of the parameters?
=> A kind of
Tone - Chikuma ;)
Pulling that turret lets me beef up the armored deck to something functional, and the belt to 90mm, plus heavier armor on the main battery....and a 2nd floatplane scout. Alternative to the floatplane is adding 3mm to the armored deck.
Town-Class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1932
Displacement:
5,950 t light; 6,283 t standard; 6,814 t normal; 7,238 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(488.44 ft / 482.28 ft) x 59.06 ft x (15.42 / 16.17 ft)
(148.88 m / 147.00 m) x 18.00 m x (4.70 / 4.93 m)
Armament:
6 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.39lbs / 85.45kg shells, 160 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
1 x 4 row quad mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
1 x 4 row quad mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 double raised mount
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,353 lbs / 614 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 347.24 ft / 105.84 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.02" / 26 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.85" / 47 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 59,380 shp / 44,297 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 956 tons
Complement:
374 - 487
Cost:
£2.662 million / $10.649 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 313 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 313 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 1,220 tons, 17.9 %
- Belts: 500 tons, 7.3 %
- Armament: 102 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 591 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,753 tons, 25.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,446 tons, 35.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 863 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 218 tons, 3.2 %
- Hull above water: 45 tons
- On freeboard deck: 107 tons
- Above deck: 66 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,063 lbs / 3,657 Kg = 45.3 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.543 / 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 42.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 201.4 %
Waterplane Area: 19,747 Square feet or 1,835 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 418 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.84
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
31t - 1918 FC
32t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
45t - Electric T&E for Main Battery
50t - 2 x Armed Floatplane Amidships
10t - 2 x Catapult
That's not a bad trade-defence cruiser. Got the gunnery and armor to take on AMCs and other CLs, couple planes to look for trouble, etc.
I will probably go with one of the 6 gun options. For cost savings purposes. The improvements in fire control somewhat alleviate the issues with a smaller spotting ladder. And for general patrol purposes the main battery isn't quite as important.
This is the ideal 6000t cruiser.
;)
Quote from: Jefgte on December 12, 2023, 03:50:59 PM
This is the ideal 6000t cruiser.
;)
The last one I posted?
QuoteThis is the ideal 6000t cruiser.
;)
The last one I posted?
Yes :)
In a strange way, I'm actually looking at the lighter one as the likely candidate. Protection isn't far off. And that's .2bp and $ per turn per ship. I'm going to wind up preparing a couple alternative options, 1 without the aircraft and more armor....and one without the aircraft and aiming to be even lighter.
I'm also thinking about a reprise of the Salado class, but with 10 x 120mm guns in a dido arrangement.
My issue is continuing production of serious fleet units, escorts, and cruisers simultaneously.
Working from the perspective of making a relatively light but powerful cruiser for its weight, my take on an Atlanta/Dido for consideration as the 1932 Cruiser.....benefit, a lot cheaper.....detriment, the guns will have to win fights by volume rather than individual punch, this is a somewhat different kind of cruiser.
Shark-Class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1932
Displacement:
5,112 t light; 5,473 t standard; 5,962 t normal; 6,353 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(478.59 ft / 472.44 ft) x 55.77 ft x (14.67 / 15.42 ft)
(145.88 m / 144.00 m) x 17.00 m x (4.47 / 4.70 m)
Armament:
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft deck forward
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 731 lbs / 331 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 347.24 ft / 105.84 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.77" / 45 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54,753 shp / 40,846 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 880 tons
Complement:
339 - 441
Cost:
£2.233 million / $8.933 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 212 tons, 3.6 %
- Guns: 212 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 996 tons, 16.7 %
- Belts: 386 tons, 6.5 %
- Armament: 127 tons, 2.1 %
- Armour Deck: 464 tons, 7.8 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,616 tons, 27.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,146 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 850 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 141 tons, 2.4 %
- Hull above water: 11 tons
- On freeboard deck: 70 tons
- Above deck: 60 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,941 lbs / 3,148 Kg = 131.6 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.547
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.47 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 42.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 19.84 ft / 6.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 200.1 %
Waterplane Area: 18,218 Square feet or 1,693 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 384 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.84
- Longitudinal: 1.65
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
21t - 1918 FC
25t - Armed Floatplane Amidships
5t - Catapult
40t - 2x5x21in HW TT on Sides Aft
Alternative Design, basically the 'heavy' DD but scaled up somewhat with a floatplane, protection for the guns and such, and the vitals all in an armored box.....a tad on the slow side though, to keep her under 3000t.
Salado (River-class), Aztec Corvette laid down 1932
Displacement:
2,875 t light; 3,090 t standard; 3,680 t normal; 4,152 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(415.38 ft / 410.11 ft) x 45.93 ft x (13.12 / 14.41 ft)
(126.61 m / 125.00 m) x 14.00 m x (4.00 / 4.39 m)
Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
8 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 479 lbs / 217 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over machinery & magazines:
1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 31,875 shp / 23,779 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,062 tons
Complement:
236 - 307
Cost:
£1.311 million / $5.244 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 137 tons, 3.7 %
- Guns: 137 tons, 3.7 %
Armour: 602 tons, 16.4 %
- Armament: 50 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 542 tons, 14.7 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 941 tons, 25.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,060 tons, 28.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 805 tons, 21.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 134 tons, 3.6 %
- Hull above water: 7 tons
- On freeboard deck: 70 tons
- Above deck: 57 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,771 lbs / 1,711 Kg = 71.5 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.521 / 0.535
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Average freeboard: 16.26 ft / 4.95 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.9 %
Waterplane Area: 12,795 Square feet or 1,189 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 269 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.70
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 0.75
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices 1918
14t - 1918 FC
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT
30t - 1 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships
Salado's not far off some of my larger sloop ideas, but I don't think of them as cruisers. Cruiser substitutes, maybe. She's still got good firepower and margin of speed over old cruisers or AMCs but might have problems with modern cruisers.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 13, 2023, 08:13:25 PM
Salado's not far off some of my larger sloop ideas, but I don't think of them as cruisers. Cruiser substitutes, maybe. She's still got good firepower and margin of speed over old cruisers or AMCs but might have problems with modern cruisers.
Well, the original Salado class was made as colonial station cruisers, so sort of fast sloops. In that vein I agree, these are more of a powerful sloop. In that vein I might look at how to shoehorn hydrophones and depth charges onto her.
Going in the direction of a sloop as the 'high' of a 'high-low' patrol/convoy escort mix, I get the following: Vitals are protected to a degree, there's torpedo/mine protection, 10,000nm range, ASW and Mine Warfare kit and a Floatplane. Downside, she's 3kts slower than what's become the cruiser standard, and her main battery while useful as DP guns is a bit on the light side for fighting anything besides relatively lightly protected.....though even a heavy cruiser convoy raider could find its cruise cut short if it ate several dozen 120mm rounds in short order. This would be the larger escort in conjunction with my 5-600t OPVs (Offshore Patrol Vessels).
Salmon-Class, Aztec Sloop laid down 1932
Displacement:
2,645 t light; 2,857 t standard; 3,420 t normal; 3,871 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(398.98 ft / 393.70 ft) x 42.65 ft x (13.45 / 14.82 ft)
(121.61 m / 120.00 m) x 13.00 m x (4.10 / 4.52 m)
Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 482 lbs / 219 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: Unarmoured
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.98" / 25 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 12.17 ft / 3.71 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over machinery & magazines:
1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 26,641 shp / 19,874 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,014 tons
Complement:
223 - 290
Cost:
£1.178 million / $4.710 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 138 tons, 4.0 %
- Guns: 138 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 621 tons, 18.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 113 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 50 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 448 tons, 13.1 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 786 tons, 23.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 905 tons, 26.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 775 tons, 22.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 194 tons, 5.7 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- Hull above water: 7 tons
- On freeboard deck: 115 tons
- Above deck: 57 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,421 lbs / 1,552 Kg = 64.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.544
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 14.53 ft / 4.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 135.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.4 %
Waterplane Area: 11,502 Square feet or 1,069 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 53 lbs/sq ft or 260 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.72
- Longitudinal: 1.10
- Overall: 0.75
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices 1918
14t - 1918 FC
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT
30t - 1 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships
15t - Adv. Hydrophones
16t - Depth Charges
4t - 4 x DC Launcher
25t - Minesweeping Equipment
So, have a question. I'm refitting the 1922 Uhlan class heavy cruisers to the more modern standards of secbat and whatnot. The question in particular is the secondaries. I'm going from a 130mm gun down to a 120mm gun. So the hoistways I have are plenty big for the purpose, it's just a change of the cradles and a few other maintenance items. As literally everything else is simply a pierside pull and swap of gun for gun and welding on the catapults for the floatplanes where the Torpedo mounts used to be......can this be considered a refit or do I have to go for the heavy-side Refurbishment? Basically I'm not seeing where the swap of a couple hundred tons of external equipment, and changing the cradles on the hoist chains and the racks in the magazines (not changing the magazines, just the racks inside them) is going to cost 20% the cost of a 17,000t ship. There's no engine changes, and no changes to anything that's going to pierce the decks whatsoever. 495 tons per ship in specific, and that's me cutting the secbat's front plate off, and replacing the guts of a 130mm mount with 120mm guns and mounts before welding the plate back on.
Uhlan, Aztec Razee laid down 1922, 1932 Refit
Displacement:
17,532 t light; 18,318 t standard; 20,174 t normal; 21,658 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(655.84 ft / 650.92 ft) x 85.30 ft x (22.31 / 23.63 ft)
(199.90 m / 198.40 m) x 26.00 m x (6.80 / 7.20 m)
Armament:
9 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 446.52lbs / 202.54kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 4.92" / 125 mm 55.0 cal guns - 64.33lbs / 29.18kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,943 lbs / 2,242 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.89" / 175 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 3.35" / 85 mm 227.79 ft / 69.43 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 20.73 ft / 6.32 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.09" / 180 mm 4.33" / 110 mm 6.69" / 170 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.33" / 110 mm, Aft 4.33" / 110 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 104,392 shp / 77,876 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,340 tons
Complement:
846 - 1,100
Cost:
£4.457 million / $17.830 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,502 tons, 7.4 %
- Guns: 1,502 tons, 7.4 %
Armour: 5,339 tons, 26.5 %
- Belts: 1,946 tons, 9.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 511 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 889 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,855 tons, 9.2 %
- Conning Towers: 138 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,541 tons, 17.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,889 tons, 34.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,642 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull above water: 75 tons
- On freeboard deck: 60 tons
- Above deck: 125 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,268 lbs / 12,822 Kg = 67.0 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.578
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.67 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.1 %
Waterplane Area: 39,484 Square feet or 3,668 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.22
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices (1918)
150t - 1918 FC
60t - 2 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult
At the moment, that's a refurb, yeah.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 16, 2023, 03:20:52 PM
At the moment, that's a refurb, yeah.
Which runs me into the problem of what to do. If I go refurb I might as well go hog wild because an engine swap nets me right at 1.08 comp. I literally don't have enough stuff to drop on the ship to burn that tonnage.
I opted to keep my DP guns as the same caliber/weight as their predecessors to avoid this dilemma. Wouldn't help with overall ammo loads but that's a different issue.
You could park some more deck armor on Uhlan if you were to re-engine her. One of the less expensive additions, though I'm not sure what it would do to your seakeeping.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 16, 2023, 04:36:05 PM
I opted to keep my DP guns as the same caliber/weight as their predecessors to avoid this dilemma. Wouldn't help with overall ammo loads but that's a different issue.
You could park some more deck armor on Uhlan if you were to re-engine her. One of the less expensive additions, though I'm not sure what it would do to your seakeeping.
Actually it's why I went to 120mm for dp. Because it's the same size and weight as my older 130mm
Though if the 130 to 120 is going to require a refurb.....I'll just pull the 130s and use my 90mm surface mounts. Go with like 18 to 22 guns in 9 to 11 deck mounts instead of 14 in 7 deck and hoist mounts
And so I fixed it, so I don't have to refurb the Uhlan. Instead, I'll just start Blasting. 22 x 90mm DP Guns. And the tonnage is freed up to let me put 4 x Floatplanes on her to boot, plus another set of night fighting devices, and so on and so forth.
Uhlan, Aztec Razee laid down 1922
Displacement:
17,573 t light; 18,318 t standard; 20,174 t normal; 21,658 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(655.84 ft / 650.92 ft) x 85.30 ft x (22.31 / 23.63 ft)
(199.90 m / 198.40 m) x 26.00 m x (6.80 / 7.20 m)
Armament:
9 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 446.52lbs / 202.54kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
22 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,570 lbs / 2,073 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.89" / 175 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 3.35" / 85 mm 227.79 ft / 69.43 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 20.73 ft / 6.32 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.09" / 180 mm 4.33" / 110 mm 6.69" / 170 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.33" / 110 mm, Aft 4.33" / 110 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 104,392 shp / 77,876 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,340 tons
Complement:
846 - 1,100
Cost:
£4.261 million / $17.046 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,353 tons, 6.7 %
- Guns: 1,353 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 5,354 tons, 26.5 %
- Belts: 1,946 tons, 9.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 511 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 904 tons, 4.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,855 tons, 9.2 %
- Conning Towers: 138 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,541 tons, 17.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,888 tons, 34.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,601 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 437 tons, 2.2 %
- Hull above water: 61 tons
- On freeboard deck: 240 tons
- Above deck: 136 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,668 lbs / 13,457 Kg = 70.3 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 4.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.578
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.67 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.1 %
Waterplane Area: 39,484 Square feet or 3,668 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.01
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
50t - NF Devices x 2
122t - 1918 FC
40t - 2x5x21in HW TT on Sides Aft
10t - 2 Catapult Amidships
100t - 4 x Armed Floatplane
100t - Partial Hangar and Maintenance in Superstructure
589 Tons Per Ship in this refit......so $.6 and .6 BP per ship.
And then the second tranche of Uhlan class, same refit.
Uhlan, Aztec Razee laid down 1928
Displacement:
16,057 t light; 16,846 t standard; 18,517 t normal; 19,853 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(655.84 ft / 650.92 ft) x 85.30 ft x (20.67 / 21.86 ft)
(199.90 m / 198.40 m) x 26.00 m x (6.30 / 6.66 m)
Armament:
9 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 446.52lbs / 202.54kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
22 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
8 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,597 lbs / 2,085 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 3.35" / 85 mm 227.79 ft / 69.43 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 20.73 ft / 6.32 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.56" / 65 mm
Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.33" / 110 mm, Aft 4.33" / 110 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 99,176 shp / 73,986 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,008 tons
Complement:
793 - 1,031
Cost:
£5.653 million / $22.613 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,412 tons, 7.6 %
- Guns: 1,412 tons, 7.6 %
Armour: 4,436 tons, 24.0 %
- Belts: 1,454 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 383 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 739 tons, 4.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,728 tons, 9.3 %
- Conning Towers: 131 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,088 tons, 16.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,705 tons, 36.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,459 tons, 13.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 417 tons, 2.3 %
- Hull above water: 71 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 146 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,903 lbs / 12,657 Kg = 66.2 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.565 / 0.572
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.67 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 196.5 %
Waterplane Area: 39,288 Square feet or 3,650 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 677 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
25t - LR Radio
50t - NF Devices x 2
142t - 1918 FC
40t - 2x5x21in HW TT on sides Aft
10t - 2 x Catapult
100t - 4 x Armed Floatplane
50t - Hangar/Maintenance for Aircraft
614t per ship, .62 and $.62
Then updating the Lake Classes, which will get all of my big cruisers (minus the R's) up to modern spec.
278t per ship, so .28 and .28......
Lake-class, Aztec Frigate laid down 1924
Displacement:
13,239 t light; 13,853 t standard; 15,388 t normal; 16,616 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(654.98 ft / 646.33 ft) x 70.54 ft x (21.10 / 22.43 ft)
(199.64 m / 197.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.43 / 6.84 m)
Armament:
12 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.39lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,576 lbs / 1,168 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 439.50 ft / 133.96 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 206.79 ft / 63.03 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 439.50 ft / 133.96 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.92" / 125 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.38" / 35 mm -
4th: - - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.06" / 27 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.36" / 60 mm, Aft 2.36" / 60 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 91,422 shp / 68,201 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,763 tons
Complement:
690 - 898
Cost:
£3.528 million / $14.111 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 633 tons, 4.1 %
- Guns: 633 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 4,257 tons, 27.7 %
- Belts: 1,579 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 504 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 599 tons, 3.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,511 tons, 9.8 %
- Conning Towers: 63 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,011 tons, 19.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,123 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,149 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 215 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull above water: 33 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 82 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,404 lbs / 9,709 Kg = 120.3 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.569
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.16 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.00 %, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 38.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 19.30 ft / 5.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.4 %
Waterplane Area: 32,117 Square feet or 2,984 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 564 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
60t - 2 x Catapult and 2 x Armed floatplane
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
65t - 1918 FC
And for something completely different and not a refit, an Offshore Patrol Vessel, aka slow general purpose minesweeper and escort. The MS-28 series is good, this series is a bit better, able to be truly ocean-crossing with technically more range than most of the DDs in the fleet. Also about 115 tons heavier, but the huge range increase, firepower increase, and the things that make this ship more functional for general purpose patrol duties for months in places like the Pacific or Atlantic are worth it to me. For some reason the possibility of needing an escort vessel that can go to a nation on the Indian Ocean is now important......
This is also showing my shift to a high-low mix that's based around escort rather than torpedo attack. OPVs and Destroyer Escorts are in the same vein, able to handle convoy escort duty against submarine, air, and some surface threats like armed merchants or even fend off destroyers. Freeing up the real Destroyers for fleet screen/scout duty and other things that the big DDs are designed to do. Because they might need to deal with something bigger than them, they carry 3 heavyweight torpedoes in order to make a credible threat against a larger vessel.
OPV-33, Aztec Offshore Patrol Vessel laid down 1933
Displacement:
679 t light; 730 t standard; 832 t normal; 915 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(240.64 ft / 236.22 ft) x 26.90 ft x (8.37 / 9.02 ft)
(73.35 m / 72.00 m) x 8.20 m x (2.55 / 2.75 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 111 lbs / 50 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.06" / 27 mm 1.06" / 27 mm -
- Box over magazines:
1.06" / 27 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.06" / 27 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,131 shp / 4,573 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 185 tons
Complement:
76 - 100
Cost:
£0.263 million / $1.053 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 2.8 %
- Guns: 23 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 28 tons, 3.4 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 14 tons, 1.7 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 179 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 208 tons, 25.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 153 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 241 tons, 29.0 %
- Hull below water: 79 tons
- Hull above water: 40 tons
- On freeboard deck: 69 tons
- Above deck: 53 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
862 lbs / 391 Kg = 38.8 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.548 / 0.559
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.37 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.2 %
Waterplane Area: 4,427 Square feet or 411 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 146 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.69
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
54t - Diesel Engines
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones
10t - Sonar
40t - Crew Comfort Improvements (Air Conditioning, recreation space)
25t - Minesweeping Equipment
2t - 2 x Y Throwers
30t - Depth Charges
12t - 1x3x21in HW TT
3t - 1930 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
Range: 8050nm @ 14kts
And I did test the idea of a 'modern H-Class' based on my old H-Class destroyers. They wound up being 33kts and just over 1000t due to the need to have the 50% engine power thing.
There's been a couple of times where I've had the thought that I'm happy with a ship's speed so might as well keep the machinery year unchanged for the next batch.
Haven't done it, though.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 18, 2023, 09:52:10 AM
There's been a couple of times where I've had the thought that I'm happy with a ship's speed so might as well keep the machinery year unchanged for the next batch.
Haven't done it, though.
I don't think I need to. 22kts means that it's capable of outrunning most submarines on the surface, and it's capable of catching up to basically any merchant ship shy of a fast ocean liner. 4 x 90mm guns makes her more well armed than anything short of a full-up destroyer, and potentially better armed than some of those. The Triple Torpedo launcher gives her something to threaten a larger vessel with so they have to take her seriously. The ASW kit is reasonably substantial, and the diesel engines mean she can cruise for weeks, or accelerate from a slow convoy speed to her top speed on a dime. Since at this point the aviation threats are Torpedo Bombers, light bombs, and strafing, the small size makes her a hard target for a TB, and if a fighter or light bomber tries her, she's got just enough armor to protect the crew and the explody bits from splinters and bullets.
I wouldn't want to be stationed on the aft deck while crossing the Atlantic but it's a tidy package overall.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 18, 2023, 10:38:21 AM
I wouldn't want to be stationed on the aft deck while crossing the Atlantic but it's a tidy package overall.
Nonsense. Perfect for taking in that fresh sea air!
Looking at this hypothetical Unicorn-style support carrier as a way to maximize the utility of my carriers over time.
Notes: 3200t is the tonnage noted for a DP on a Seaplane Tender, making this an 'aircraft tender'. There is a lighter for transporting aircraft, that matches the historical. And there are cranes for recovering aircraft to the flight deck from pierside etc. There are enlarged shops aboard, and an improved medical compartment as damaged aircraft may come with damaged people. A lot of gear for working on the aircraft, and the bulk of the hangar space is dedicated to aircraft repair and storage of crated planes, etc. Below the waterline there's expanded POL space and magazine space. While she is a carrier, and has a 20 aircraft air group (1 Fighter Squadron, .5 DB/Fighter Squadron, 2 Patrol Bombers) it's based around self defense as even her only strike asset is 6 dive bombers that can pull double duty as backup fighters. She's a chunky, slow girl, meant to operate with the fleet train and provide some escort air support for those assets while keeping Carrier Strike Groups full of aircraft and pilots.
Unicorn, Aztec Support Carrier laid down 1934
Displacement:
17,055 t light; 17,689 t standard; 20,141 t normal; 22,103 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(652.71 ft / 616.80 ft) x 88.58 ft x (21.33 / 23.04 ft)
(198.95 m / 188.00 m) x 27.00 m x (6.50 / 7.02 m)
Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
2 double raised mounts
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
6 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 522 lbs / 237 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 400.92 ft / 122.20 m 11.29 ft / 3.44 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.98" / 25 mm 400.92 ft / 122.20 m 19.82 ft / 6.04 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 68.90 ft / 21.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 53,331 shp / 39,785 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,414 tons
Complement:
844 - 1,098
Cost:
£4.295 million / $17.178 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 156 tons, 0.8 %
- Guns: 156 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 1,669 tons, 8.3 %
- Belts: 308 tons, 1.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 289 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 113 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 959 tons, 4.8 %
Machinery: 1,534 tons, 7.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,354 tons, 36.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,086 tons, 15.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6,341 tons, 31.5 %
- Hull below water: 3,050 tons
- Hull above water: 3,050 tons
- On freeboard deck: 140 tons
- Above deck: 101 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
55,939 lbs / 25,373 Kg = 1,061.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.605 / 0.615
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Average freeboard: 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 327.0 %
Waterplane Area: 40,148 Square feet or 3,730 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 172 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 542 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 3.47
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
16t - 1930 FC
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
50t - NF Devices x 2
10t - 2 x Catapult Forward in deck
50t - Additional Firefighting Equipment
20t - Arresting Gear, Crash Barriers and Aircraft Recovery Equipment on Deck
40t - 20t Lighter (for aircraft movement) Aft and Davits
20t - Collapsible Cranes for Aircraft Movement to Deck
100t - Additional Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
100t - Space for 50 Spare Flight Crew
100t - Improved Sick Bay
100t - Additional DC Equipment
200t - Repair Shops
3200t - Aviation Support for Carrier Air Groups
1900t - 20 x Aircraft in Organic Flight Group
And looking at my very ancient landing ships, and considering political implications that ground forces want toys too.....
A modernized Landing Ship for the Seal Warriors, with cranes, spotting floatplanes for scouting purposes, a single 180mm twin mount for fire support of the landing forces, self-defense guns, briefing spaces, etc. All of the armament is forward, and the briefing spaces are in the main superstructure block forward. Then there are the cranes and the catapults and floatplanes amidships, and aft is dedicated solely to landing craft operations, with two larger landing barges capable of hauling multiple vehicles or significant numbers of PAX winched up into the notched overhang aft (and able to load directly off of the cargo deck, not a well deck) and more 'normal' sized landing craft for lighter vehicles and personnel (LCVP sized) on the main deck.
Below there is the support for what I tentatively consider an LP of troops (1600 PAX ie a 'Brigade', though the number is more a 'meh' thing and based on an AP/DP combo being 6400t constructed on a ship) and a DP of gear and supplies....6400t in total.
LSD-5, Aztec Landing Ship laid down 1934
Displacement:
12,221 t light; 12,661 t standard; 14,035 t normal; 15,135 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(470.88 ft / 452.76 ft) x 78.74 ft x (19.69 / 21.03 ft)
(143.52 m / 138.00 m) x 24.00 m x (6.00 / 6.41 m)
Armament:
6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
10 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 raised mounts
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 double raised mount
2 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 500 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mount, 1934 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 541 lbs / 246 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: Unarmoured
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.39" / 10 mm 311.35 ft / 94.90 m 12.60 ft / 3.84 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over magazines:
0.79" / 20 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 43,695 shp / 32,596 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,474 tons
Complement:
644 - 838
Cost:
£3.206 million / $12.825 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 122 tons, 0.9 %
- Guns: 122 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 88 tons, 0.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 57 tons, 0.4 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 23 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,257 tons, 9.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,605 tons, 25.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,815 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 7,149 tons, 50.9 %
- Hull below water: 3,200 tons
- Hull above water: 3,200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 680 tons
- Above deck: 69 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,696 lbs / 9,841 Kg = 975.4 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 12.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.707
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.4 %
Waterplane Area: 28,574 Square feet or 2,655 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 464 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.66
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
10t - 2 x Catapult Amidships
120t - 6 x UNARMED Floatplane
200t - Berthing and Briefing Spaces for Operation Commander
50t - Firefighting Equipment
60t - 2 x 30t Cranes
120t - 6 x 10t Landing Craft
120t - 2 x 30t Landing Barges
9t - 1930 FC
10t - Additional SR Radio
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
3200t - LP of Seal Warriors
3200t - DP Support for Seal Warriors
Continuing to mess with the Armored Fleet Carrier. I do think that this type of carrier is going to prove to be worthwhile for the Caribbean, as historically the Armored Carriers were quite worthwhile in the Med. The Pacific and Atlantic probably lend more to the max airgroup carrier.
Armored Carrier, Aztec Strike Carrier laid down 1935
Displacement:
26,416 t light; 27,271 t standard; 29,327 t normal; 30,972 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(768.92 ft / 754.59 ft) x 88.58 ft x (27.92 / 29.15 ft)
(234.37 m / 230.00 m) x 27.00 m x (8.51 / 8.89 m)
Armament:
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
10 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 467 lbs / 212 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 479.82 ft / 146.25 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 258.33 ft / 78.74 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
16.44 ft / 5.01 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 479.82 ft / 146.25 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.98" / 25 mm 479.82 ft / 146.25 m 24.08 ft / 7.34 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 5.71" / 145 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.57" / 40 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,549 shp / 89,929 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,701 tons
Complement:
1,119 - 1,456
Cost:
£7.323 million / $29.293 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 110 tons, 0.4 %
- Guns: 110 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 6,924 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 2,136 tons, 7.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 421 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 101 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 4,234 tons, 14.4 %
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 3,425 tons, 11.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,390 tons, 35.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,912 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,566 tons, 19.0 %
- Hull below water: 2,665 tons
- Hull above water: 2,665 tons
- On freeboard deck: 90 tons
- Above deck: 146 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
75,382 lbs / 34,193 Kg = 3,389.0 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 9.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.556
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Average freeboard: 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 312.6 %
Waterplane Area: 46,650 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 149 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 576 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.87
- Longitudinal: 3.35
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Flight Deck is 75mm
Hangar Deck is 30mm
11t - 1930 FC
50t - NF Devices x 2
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
50t - Command Facilities
20t - 4 x Catapult in flight deck
20t - Arresting Equipment
50t - Additional Firefighting Equipment
100t - Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
100t - Additional DC Equipment
5130t - 54 Aircraft (1933+)
And looking at my large battleline that's limited to 24kts (7 ships in total), plus other ships limited to slower speeds, an escort carrier that's cheap, cheerful, and gives a modestly decent airgroup of 32 aircraft (probably even split between fighters and strike). Primarily to escort and support these forces so the limited number of fast carriers can operate detached from the battle line.
Escort Carrier, Aztec Escort Carrier laid down 1935
Displacement:
7,804 t light; 8,113 t standard; 8,900 t normal; 9,530 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(492.13 ft / 492.13 ft) x 59.06 ft x (19.49 / 20.57 ft)
(150.00 m / 150.00 m) x 18.00 m x (5.94 / 6.27 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 243 lbs / 110 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: Unarmoured
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.59" / 15 mm 319.88 ft / 97.50 m 18.08 ft / 5.51 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 49.21 ft / 15.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over magazines:
1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.57" / 40 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32,911 shp / 24,552 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,417 tons
Complement:
457 - 595
Cost:
£2.147 million / $8.587 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 62 tons, 0.7 %
- Guns: 62 tons, 0.7 %
Armour: 216 tons, 2.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 126 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 37 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 38 tons, 0.4 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 935 tons, 10.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,329 tons, 37.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,096 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,262 tons, 36.7 %
- Hull below water: 1,570 tons
- Hull above water: 1,570 tons
- On freeboard deck: 55 tons
- Above deck: 67 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,730 lbs / 8,042 Kg = 797.1 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.558
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 249.6 %
Waterplane Area: 20,282 Square feet or 1,884 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 161 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 383 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 5.36
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
7t - 1930 FC
25t - NF Devices
10t - Additional SR Radio
25t - LR Radio
10t - 2 x Catapult in Deck
20t - Arrestor Equipment
25t - Firefighting Equipment
50t - Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
50t - Additional DC Equipment
3040t - 32 x Aircraft 1933+
Looking at my colonial ships, I have a good series of small and relatively cheap colonial corvettes patrolling the colonies. However, Terra del Fuego is a unique environment, with its close association to the Antarctic and the fishing down that way. The Southern Sea is vicious, and only the best ships can handle it in a storm. While the Rivers are good colonial ships, ships for regularly pounding through those seas or even breaking ice, they are not. The Penguin is a good little ship for the job, and will be staying on down there even though her powerplant will need to be replaced along with a general refit, though combat isn't a prime focus in the region. But with the scrapping of the remaining Toucans, only one of the big cruisers, or Penguin, is capable of operating down in that environment. So it's time for a new ship, and one heavier with better icebreaking and general facilities. Also better armed, but that's very much an afterthought that's possible simply because the ship is big enough that armament can simply be slapped on.
Sea Lion, Aztec Icebreaker Cruiser laid down 1934
Displacement:
4,851 t light; 5,116 t standard; 5,514 t normal; 5,832 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(385.72 ft / 377.30 ft) x 52.49 ft x (14.76 / 15.49 ft)
(117.57 m / 115.00 m) x 16.00 m x (4.50 / 4.72 m)
Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
16 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 495 lbs / 224 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 245.24 ft / 74.75 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 132.02 ft / 40.24 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 245.24 ft / 74.75 m 14.21 ft / 4.33 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 0.51" / 13 mm 0.51" / 13 mm -
3rd: 0.51" / 13 mm 0.51" / 13 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 25,033 shp / 18,675 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 716 tons
Complement:
319 - 415
Cost:
£1.605 million / $6.419 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 141 tons, 2.5 %
- Guns: 141 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 1,323 tons, 24.0 %
- Belts: 494 tons, 9.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 152 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 136 tons, 2.5 %
- Armour Deck: 520 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 720 tons, 13.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,647 tons, 29.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 663 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,020 tons, 18.5 %
- Hull below water: 446 tons
- Hull void weights: 20 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 280 tons
- Above deck: 74 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,716 lbs / 4,861 Kg = 203.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.660 / 0.665
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.19 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.68 ft / 5.39 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.9 %
Waterplane Area: 15,312 Square feet or 1,422 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 367 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.76
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
216t - Diesel Engines
180t - Electric Drives
(Range - 10000nm)
50t - Additional DC Pumps
14t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
10t - Additional Searchlights
40t - 2x5x21in HW TT on Sides
80t - 2 x 20t Motor-Launch
100t - Hangar
60t - 2 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships
50t - Berthing for 10 Additional Men (rescues/Seal Warriors)
50t - Enhanced Ship's Surgical Suite
50t - Additional DC/Firefighting Equipment
50t - Rescue Gear/Dive Gear/Sleds and Ice Operating Equipment
20t - Void - Crash Void Forward
Note: Ship is 10% stronger than required for increased bracing beyond normal cruisers of same size
Quote from: TacCovert4 on December 26, 2023, 05:30:18 PM
And looking at my large battleline that's limited to 24kts (7 ships in total), plus other ships limited to slower speeds, an escort carrier that's cheap, cheerful, and gives a modestly decent airgroup of 32 aircraft (probably even split between fighters and strike). Primarily to escort and support these forces so the limited number of fast carriers can operate detached from the battle line.
Escort Carrier, Aztec Escort Carrier laid down 1935
Displacement:
7,804 t light; 8,113 t standard; 8,900 t normal; 9,530 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(492.13 ft / 492.13 ft) x 59.06 ft x (19.49 / 20.57 ft)
(150.00 m / 150.00 m) x 18.00 m x (5.94 / 6.27 m)
* the 20 tons of arrestor equipment is unneeded. That is most definitely included in the classification.
* the torpedo bulkhead- with 1.5m depth & 15mm should not be expected to stop much of anything. Flooding control for a bomb near miss perhaps.
* 1884/65 = 28.9, so 28. She can't hold 32 planes.
Short and at 25 knots, she'll run into the same limitations my vessels will be facing.
Which I think is entirely reasonable for a bi-plane era design.
I will note that if your battleline ever does need to sprint, and this needs to turn into the wind for launching for 30minutes or so, it could take a very long time to 'catch up' with only 1 knot of overtake.
Armored carrier- may look later.
But yes, I think the Med/Carrib correlation works well.
Frankly, I think the "Early warning systems don't exist so I'm armoring the flight deck" logic works well too.
Quote...Primarily to escort and support these forces so the limited number of fast carriers can operate detached from the battle line.
And if the squadron carriers are damaged, they could collect the planes and the precious pilots.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on January 10, 2024, 09:02:03 PM
Quote from: TacCovert4 on December 26, 2023, 05:30:18 PM
And looking at my large battleline that's limited to 24kts (7 ships in total), plus other ships limited to slower speeds, an escort carrier that's cheap, cheerful, and gives a modestly decent airgroup of 32 aircraft (probably even split between fighters and strike). Primarily to escort and support these forces so the limited number of fast carriers can operate detached from the battle line.
Escort Carrier, Aztec Escort Carrier laid down 1935
Displacement:
7,804 t light; 8,113 t standard; 8,900 t normal; 9,530 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(492.13 ft / 492.13 ft) x 59.06 ft x (19.49 / 20.57 ft)
(150.00 m / 150.00 m) x 18.00 m x (5.94 / 6.27 m)
* the 20 tons of arrestor equipment is unneeded. That is most definitely included in the classification.
* the torpedo bulkhead- with 1.5m depth & 15mm should not be expected to stop much of anything. Flooding control for a bomb near miss perhaps.
* 1884/65 = 28.9, so 28. She can't hold 32 planes.
Short and at 25 knots, she'll run into the same limitations my vessels will be facing.
Which I think is entirely reasonable for a bi-plane era design.
I will note that if your battleline ever does need to sprint, and this needs to turn into the wind for launching for 30minutes or so, it could take a very long time to 'catch up' with only 1 knot of overtake.
Armored carrier- may look later.
But yes, I think the Med/Carrib correlation works well.
Frankly, I think the "Early warning systems don't exist so I'm armoring the flight deck" logic works well too.
I played with tonnage AFTER setting the air group. So the hullform changed a bit. I'll readjust, it's a WIP.
I have to be careful with both carriers and destroyers as tinkering with hull form can turn a valid design into invalid quite easily. Sometimes it works another way, ot was a bit of a surprise to me to discover the 13,750ton design I was working on could hold more aircraft than I had budgeted for - hull form tinkering, or perhaps I used the wrong /55,/65 formula. That's why it inflated to the 14,500 Kam Baz- 10 AC for an opportunity cost of 750t.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on January 11, 2024, 09:31:51 AM
I have to be careful with both carriers and destroyers as tinkering with hull form can turn a valid design into invalid quite easily. Sometimes it works another way, ot was a bit of a surprise to me to discover the 13,750ton design I was working on could hold more aircraft than I had budgeted for - hull form tinkering, or perhaps I used the wrong /55,/65 formula. That's why it inflated to the 14,500 Kam Baz- 10 AC for an opportunity cost of 750t.
Yeah, I finally got my head wrapped around DDs. Generally speaking, my carrier designs have about 10% more aircraft possible than it has in air group. I started chopping tonnage to get a certain tonnage per HY, which jacked up the air group. I'm going to revisit the whole thing, cutting some of that misc weight out, and doing a few other things to see what I can do to get the design a bit better balanced. The concept of an escort carrier to handle all the other jobs I might want aircraft involved in that isn't fleet scouting/screening or strike is the essence of the design....after that, as cheap and cheerful as possible.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on January 11, 2024, 09:31:51 AM
I have to be careful with both carriers and destroyers as tinkering with hull form can turn a valid design into invalid quite easily. Sometimes it works another way, ot was a bit of a surprise to me to discover the 13,750ton design I was working on could hold more aircraft than I had budgeted for - hull form tinkering, or perhaps I used the wrong /55,/65 formula. That's why it inflated to the 14,500 Kam Baz- 10 AC for an opportunity cost of 750t.
Did some work. Slight change to the guns, mostly just cutting a few of the 30s that would have a hard time finding physical space on the sponsons.
The interesting thing is that my escort carriers have the more efficient ABXY mount arrangement fore and aft of the island, while my light and strike carriers have the less efficient (for gunnery) sponson arrangement where half the gun battery isn't useful against low angle threats on the opposite side of the ship. However, this is keeping with the Aztec philosophy for those ships of they are carriers first, and their guns are placed so that in no way do the gun batteries interfere with the flight deck.
Was able to change the armor scheme to a machinery/magazine box, which should reduce the chance of critical hits from HE or the bombs of this particular era. Also bumped the TDS up to a 'barely' viable scheme, which combined with the depth of the blister should let the ship eat a torpedo.
Changed the aircraft to 28, which is still pretty darn good for this size. Squeezed an extra knot out of her, plus a few other minor changes. One of which is that the forward flight deck will have 4 catapults. With her beam only 2 can be used at a time, she'll literally have 2 pairs of them. But having two pairs of cats means that we can increase cycle time for off-wind launches of the alert flight. These ships are designed to put up escorts for the surface action fleet first and foremost, so being able to catapult launch 4 fighters in a relatively short period of time no matter the direction of sailing is extremely important given the dearth of effective radar in this period.
As for flight group, I envision a single full squadron of fighters, and two partial squadrons of strike aircraft. One being Fighter-Bombers, which will be dive bombers when that tech is finished....but they have a secondary role as second-line fighters and can contribute to the overall CAP in a defensive fight. The other squadron are torpedo bombers, which for the wheeled naval aircraft are the primary scout aircraft. Concept of operations is that the TB screen finds the enemy, the floatplanes on the BBs maintain eyes on, and the TBs return and arm up for a strike in support of the surface action, finishing off cripples or slowing down a fleeing enemy so that surface action groups can bring them down (very important for the slow BBs.....your 45,000t 32kt BB is suddenly very vulnerable when it's got a couple of torpedoes in it and is now forced to turn and fight a battle squadron of older 27,000t BBs that mostly traded speed for armor and firepower).
Escort Carrier, Aztec Escort Carrier laid down 1935
Displacement:
7,985 t light; 8,295 t standard; 9,091 t normal; 9,729 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(492.13 ft / 492.13 ft) x 60.83 ft x (19.69 / 20.77 ft)
(150.00 m / 150.00 m) x 18.54 m x (6.00 / 6.33 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 239 lbs / 108 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: Unarmoured
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.79" / 20 mm 319.88 ft / 97.50 m 17.95 ft / 5.47 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 47.57 ft / 14.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over machinery & magazines:
1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.57" / 40 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 38,968 shp / 29,070 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,434 tons
Complement:
465 - 605
Cost:
£2.300 million / $9.200 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 61 tons, 0.7 %
- Guns: 61 tons, 0.7 %
Armour: 541 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 167 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 41 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 317 tons, 3.5 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,107 tons, 12.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,405 tons, 37.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,106 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,872 tons, 31.6 %
- Hull below water: 1,380 tons
- Hull above water: 1,380 tons
- On freeboard deck: 45 tons
- Above deck: 67 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,396 lbs / 8,344 Kg = 827.0 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 250.3 %
Waterplane Area: 20,696 Square feet or 1,923 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 157 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 394 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 5.17
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
7t - 1930 FC
25t - NF Devices
10t - Additional SR Radio
25t - LR Radio
20t - 4 x Catapult in Deck
25t - Firefighting Equipment
50t - Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
50t - Additional DC Equipment
2660t - 28 x Aircraft 1933+
(Standard Mix: 12 x F, 8 x F/B, 8 x TB/S)
Looking at OPVs, the MS-28 class are a good class of ships. But I'm looking at the next class and wondering if the little trio of torpedoes is worth the tonnage, or if the tonnage would be better spent on a 6t launch (about the size of a modern USCG Small Response Boat) for more general coast guard/rescue missions....or even more ASW or Mines....
Thoughts?
(For Reference)
OPV-33, Aztec Offshore Patrol Vessel laid down 1933
Displacement:
679 t light; 730 t standard; 832 t normal; 915 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(240.64 ft / 236.22 ft) x 26.90 ft x (8.37 / 9.02 ft)
(73.35 m / 72.00 m) x 8.20 m x (2.55 / 2.75 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 111 lbs / 50 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.06" / 27 mm 1.06" / 27 mm -
- Box over magazines:
1.06" / 27 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.06" / 27 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,131 shp / 4,573 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 185 tons
Complement:
76 - 100
Cost:
£0.263 million / $1.053 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 2.8 %
- Guns: 23 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 28 tons, 3.4 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 14 tons, 1.7 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 179 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 208 tons, 25.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 153 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 241 tons, 29.0 %
- Hull below water: 79 tons
- Hull above water: 40 tons
- On freeboard deck: 69 tons
- Above deck: 53 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
863 lbs / 391 Kg = 38.8 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.548 / 0.559
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.37 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.2 %
Waterplane Area: 4,427 Square feet or 411 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 146 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.69
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
54t - Diesel Engines
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones
10t - Sonar
40t - Crew Comfort Improvements (Air Conditioning, recreation space)
25t - Minesweeping Equipment
2t - 2 x Y Throwers
30t - Depth Charges
12t - 1x3x21in HW TT
3t - 1930 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
Range: 8050nm @ 14kts
Take the tonnage out of crew comfort; 40 t is a lot for a vessel that size.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 13, 2024, 04:12:39 PM
Take the tonnage out of crew comfort; 40 t is a lot for a vessel that size.
OPV-33, Aztec Offshore Patrol Vessel laid down 1933
Displacement:
672 t light; 722 t standard; 832 t normal; 921 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(240.64 ft / 236.22 ft) x 26.90 ft x (8.37 / 9.06 ft)
(73.35 m / 72.00 m) x 8.20 m x (2.55 / 2.76 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 111 lbs / 50 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.06" / 27 mm 1.06" / 27 mm -
- Box over magazines:
1.06" / 27 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.06" / 27 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,131 shp / 4,573 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 4,300nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 199 tons
Complement:
76 - 100
Cost:
£0.262 million / $1.049 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 2.8 %
- Guns: 23 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 28 tons, 3.4 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 14 tons, 1.7 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 179 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 207 tons, 24.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 161 tons, 19.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 235 tons, 28.2 %
- Hull below water: 79 tons
- Hull above water: 10 tons
- On freeboard deck: 93 tons
- Above deck: 53 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
891 lbs / 404 Kg = 40.0 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.548 / 0.559
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.37 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.2 %
Waterplane Area: 4,427 Square feet or 411 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 145 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.69
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
54t - Diesel Engines
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones
10t - Sonar
10t - Crew Comfort Improvements (Air Conditioning, recreation space)
25t - Minesweeping Equipment
2t - 2 x Y Throwers
30t - Depth Charges or Mines
12t - 1x3x21in HW TT
24t - 2 x 6t Motor Launches
3t - 1930 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
Range: 8653nm @ 14kts
Working on other designs, with the OPVs taking away the minelayer function, that job goes to the tiny number of GMBs....500t minelayers built on large torpedo boat hulls. There's just not much ability to pack mines on such a hull.
Alternatively, going with a relatively light armament for a small cruiser of only 6 x 120mm DP guns, but with torpedoes to give a bit of an offensive threat as a stand-off weapon, we get a 3000t minelayer with speed, range, and more survivability than a destroyer, though admittedly not by much. In peacetime it can fulfill some of the roles being done by the River-class sloops, general colonial courier and station ship duties.....
Salmon-Class, Aztec Sloop-Minelayer laid down 1934
Displacement:
2,972 t light; 3,164 t standard; 3,683 t normal; 4,099 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(398.98 ft / 393.70 ft) x 42.65 ft x (14.76 / 16.04 ft)
(121.61 m / 120.00 m) x 13.00 m x (4.50 / 4.89 m)
Armament:
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
1 x 4 row quad mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
1 x 4 row quad mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 368 lbs / 167 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: Unarmoured
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
0.98" / 25 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 13.39 ft / 4.08 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Box over magazines:
1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 43,002 shp / 32,079 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 935 tons
Complement:
236 - 307
Cost:
£1.572 million / $6.289 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 106 tons, 2.9 %
- Guns: 106 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 219 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 125 tons, 3.4 %
- Armament: 40 tons, 1.1 %
- Armour Deck: 44 tons, 1.2 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,237 tons, 33.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,039 tons, 28.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 712 tons, 19.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 371 tons, 10.1 %
- Hull above water: 106 tons
- On freeboard deck: 210 tons
- Above deck: 55 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,329 lbs / 1,056 Kg = 44.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.533
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.11 ft / 5.22 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.4 %
Waterplane Area: 11,395 Square feet or 1,059 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 53 lbs/sq ft or 259 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.68
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 0.75
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices 1918
11t - 1918 FC
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT Fore Deck Aft
30t - 1 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships
40t - 2 x 10t Motor Launch
200t - Mines
Looking at updates and whatnot. The Princess Royal is powerful with 4x3x9in guns, but really a bit heavy and a one off. Looking at taking the Uhlan and making it more heavily armored so that it can shrug off hits from 10in guns at battle ranges (10in being a gun size that's not uncommon in the Mayan fleet), the tonnage goes up compared to the vanilla Uhlan design, but it's a much more survivable ship.
Orizaba, Aztec Razee laid down 1934
Displacement:
18,479 t light; 19,480 t standard; 21,184 t normal; 22,548 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(654.52 ft / 649.61 ft) x 88.58 ft x (22.60 / 23.77 ft)
(199.50 m / 198.00 m) x 27.00 m x (6.89 / 7.25 m)
Armament:
9 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 446.52lbs / 202.54kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.90lbs / 25.81kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,866 lbs / 2,207 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 422.24 ft / 128.70 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 3.54" / 90 mm 227.33 ft / 69.29 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 422.24 ft / 128.70 m 20.96 ft / 6.39 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.09" / 180 mm 4.33" / 110 mm 6.69" / 170 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.54" / 90 mm
Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.72" / 120 mm, Aft 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 108,411 shp / 80,875 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,068 tons
Complement:
877 - 1,141
Cost:
£7.864 million / $31.454 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,488 tons, 7.0 %
- Guns: 1,488 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 6,215 tons, 29.3 %
- Belts: 2,202 tons, 10.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 516 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 931 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 2,411 tons, 11.4 %
- Conning Towers: 156 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,119 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,157 tons, 33.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,705 tons, 12.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 499 tons, 2.4 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- Hull above water: 150 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 149 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,978 lbs / 14,959 Kg = 78.2 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 5.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.577
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.67 ft / 6.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.0 %
Waterplane Area: 40,920 Square feet or 3,802 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 692 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Main Deck is 70mm on top of belt w/ 20mm Splinter Deck at waterline
149t - 1930 FC
25t - LR Radio
50t - NF Devices x 2
60t - 2 x Catapult and Armed Floatplane Amidships
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT Aft
100t - Additional DC Equipment
Looking at my 1920 Baja-class Frigates, they're a 'unicorn'. Not only are they the biggest ships I have without a TDS, they, and their soon to be scrapped Eagle-class cousins, are the only ones equipped with oddball guns. In this case, 210/45s of a very old design.
Of course I'm trying to figure out whether I want to just scrap them, or do some serious modifications. On the cheap end, I could spend the development funding for a 2 gun 180mm turret, and simply change the guns out on these. That plus a swap to the 90mm DP gun for secondaries, and add on a modern AA suite, would make these 2nd line cruisers of the same size as the towns but without the firepower or durability. With all of the new BBs, and the Implacable refit, I don't particularly have a need for 2nd line colonial cruisers, as I have small colonial cruisers, and the operating cost for a 1920s vintage heavy cruiser wouldn't be far off from the operating costs of a fully modernized small battleship. The battleship also has the benefit of flag facilities, a much heavier main and secondary battery, heavy armor, and a full TDS.
My other option, which I've spitballed (this morning, I'll post it this evening) would be to do a reconstruction. Modern geared turbines are smaller and would allow for more internal space. The forward armament could be replaced with the bog-standard triple 180mm turrets. 90mm DP, 40mm AA and 30mm AA put on. And the funnels retrunked and everything aft razed and replaced with a large superstructure to make the Bajas into flight deck cruisers with 10 aircraft launched from catapults. In essence turning them into a slightly less good version of the Condor-class that's hitting the docks in 1932 (10 aircraft as opposed to 16, no TDS but slightly better belt).
Estimating total cost to be $15 and 6 BP, as opposed to the 13 and 13 of the Condors. Time differential is about 15 months vs 24 months. Just got to decide if it's even worth it.
It would be a lot of investment to get ten aircraft to sea, especially since you'll be paying for aircraft capability as a conversion.
The reconstruction value, plus the scrap value of the ship, would come close to getting you a new-build CVE or CLV. If you were to recycle the machinery into the new CVE, maybe you'd come out ahead. Sure, 1931 machinery is more compact, but free machinery has its own value.
If they are oddballs but have value, maybe assign them as dedicated fire-support ships? Or keep a couple of the 210mm mountings and park them on little monitors for that sort of tasking?
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on February 19, 2024, 07:51:22 AM
It would be a lot of investment to get ten aircraft to sea, especially since you'll be paying for aircraft capability as a conversion.
The reconstruction value, plus the scrap value of the ship, would come close to getting you a new-build CVE or CLV. If you were to recycle the machinery into the new CVE, maybe you'd come out ahead. Sure, 1931 machinery is more compact, but free machinery has its own value.
If they are oddballs but have value, maybe assign them as dedicated fire-support ships? Or keep a couple of the 210mm mountings and park them on little monitors for that sort of tasking?
Reviewing it, I might, at most, just do a pierside refit to update FC and change the secondaries and AA from 100s, 70s, 12s to 90s, 40s, and 30s. All of those have pure deck mount options. In that guise they could continue as a cruiser in second-line roles for another decade or so and be scrapped in the early-mid 40s.
Might be more efficient, yeah.
It is a bummer that you've got a modern, capable, and kind of expensive hull that just doesn't really work for you any more.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on February 19, 2024, 09:03:57 AM
It is a bummer that you've got a modern, capable, and kind of expensive hull that just doesn't really work for you any more.
Well, they were a stopgap design, you'll note that they were in the big wave of 'we don't have the new modern guns yet but we need certain types of warships now since the whole fleet basically got wiped by Rome' category. They didn't get engaged in the Mayan war because the Mayans didn't come out to fight my Pacific Fleet. I guess I can keep the refit Sultan Alis at home and send these with a minor refit into the Pacific as we now have tighter ties with the Parthians, making for two significant pacific powers that we're on quite good terms with and have a need to keep ships in the region to support joint regional security.
I find that Baja are very correct.
Balanced weaponry, speed, protection.
=> There are just 100mm to change in DP.
Another thing to consider is that I have 3 of the R-class Razees. 3 double 280mm guns. But not the armor of a battlecruiser, well not one designed to take on other ships in its class. Looking forward to refits, these may rate a larger rebuild pulling the 280mm twins in place of triple 240s.
Yeah, you might have to prioritize resources.
Thinking forward, and embracing odd ideas, I wanted to get opinions.
The AA effectiveness of a triple or quadruple 120mm turret? Considering the possibility of a cruiser with 15+ 120/55 DP guns in turrets.
I don't recall much historical success with the British triple 4" or the French quad 130, but doesn't make it impossible.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on February 21, 2024, 05:49:43 PM
I don't recall much historical success with the British triple 4" or the French quad 130, but doesn't make it impossible.
She has the same issues as her historical counterparts, that being namely stability. But she's basically 3 top of the line destroyers in a trench coat, with a flag bridge, floatplanes, and armor......
Mylanta, Aztec Corvette laid down 1935
Displacement:
9,419 t light; 9,893 t standard; 10,788 t normal; 11,504 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(595.83 ft / 590.55 ft) x 59.06 ft x (19.69 / 20.71 ft)
(181.61 m / 180.00 m) x 18.00 m x (6.00 / 6.31 m)
Armament:
18 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,075 lbs / 488 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 472.44 ft / 144.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 118.08 ft / 35.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 472.44 ft / 144.00 m 19.59 ft / 5.97 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 45.93 ft / 14.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.56" / 65 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 2.76" / 70 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 79,731 shp / 59,479 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,611 tons
Complement:
529 - 688
Cost:
£3.933 million / $15.732 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 409 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 409 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 2,815 tons, 26.1 %
- Belts: 741 tons, 6.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 539 tons, 5.0 %
- Armament: 359 tons, 3.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,118 tons, 10.4 %
- Conning Towers: 58 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,265 tons, 21.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,588 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,369 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 341 tons, 3.2 %
- Hull above water: 41 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,132 lbs / 6,864 Kg = 287.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.557
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.5 %
Waterplane Area: 24,339 Square feet or 2,261 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 486 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
82t - 1930 FC x 2
50t - NF Devices x 2
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
74t - Flag Bridge
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT Aft
60t - 2 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships
And an honestly more reasonable ship. Less torpedo defense, but that's more to do with the ship being that much lighter than it having less TDS. The fun part is that almost the entire ship is taken up with magazines and engineering spaces, but they're relatively small and light. 1935 is probably a bit early for them though, as 1938 or so is when aircraft become interesting enough to make a ship like this quite reliable.
Mylanta, Aztec Corvette laid down 1935
Displacement:
6,725 t light; 7,075 t standard; 7,803 t normal; 8,386 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(530.65 ft / 524.93 ft) x 52.49 ft x (18.70 / 19.78 ft)
(161.74 m / 160.00 m) x 16.00 m x (5.70 / 6.03 m)
Armament:
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 725 lbs / 329 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 430.45 ft / 131.20 m 8.69 ft / 2.65 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 94.46 ft / 28.79 m 8.69 ft / 2.65 m
Main Belt covers 126 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 430.45 ft / 131.20 m 16.93 ft / 5.16 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 67,917 shp / 50,666 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,311 tons
Complement:
414 - 539
Cost:
£3.007 million / $12.027 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 258 tons, 3.3 %
- Guns: 258 tons, 3.3 %
Armour: 2,031 tons, 26.0 %
- Belts: 644 tons, 8.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 425 tons, 5.4 %
- Armament: 127 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 809 tons, 10.4 %
- Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,929 tons, 24.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,335 tons, 29.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,079 tons, 13.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 171 tons, 2.2 %
- Hull above water: 13 tons
- On freeboard deck: 70 tons
- Above deck: 88 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,944 lbs / 4,057 Kg = 169.6 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.538
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 52.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 8.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 18.31 ft / 5.58 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.4 %
Waterplane Area: 18,875 Square feet or 1,754 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 388 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.87
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
26t - 1930 FC
50t - NF Devices x 2
25t - LR Radio
40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT Aft
30t - 1 x Armed Floatplane and Catapult Amidships
Looking at the AA refit of my two remaining classes of battleships, the Ms and Victories, I've got a decision to make.
As the refit will have to be substantial to replace the 130mm single purpose guns with 120mm DP guns, do I refit the more modern Victory class first? Or do I refit the Monarch first as she's the oldest of them? On the one hand it's providing protection to the flagships of the slow battle squadrons. On the other hand, as I've got to eat the expense of a more expensive refit.....I can replace engines and do other things relatively cheaply within the refit.
IMO, replace engines to increase speed is very expensive.
Keep the speed of 24 kts, like the majority of your battleships.
Change 130 QF to 120DP.
For refit, I recommend a recent one, an old one alternating.
Quote from: Jefgte on March 26, 2024, 11:00:52 AMIMO, replace engines to increase speed is very expensive.
Keep the speed of 24 kts, like the majority of your battleships.
Change 130 QF to 120DP.
For refit, I recommend a recent one, an old one alternating.
Point. If I replaced engines it would probably be to get more free tonnage for other things like radar whenever I get there which is soon. I dont think I could get them to 27kts and it's not worth it for less.
Quote... If I replaced engines it would probably be to get more free tonnage for other things like radar whenever I get there which is soon...
Changing engines is very expensive !!!
I prefer to remove a little secondary armament to save a little weight useful for radar or other things.
Eventually, these recovered guns could be used on gunboats.
I realized that I may not have posted the actual production model of the Royal Sovereign BB now under construction:
Royal Sovereign, Aztec Battleship laid down 1930
Displacement:
58,686 t light; 61,657 t standard; 65,282 t normal; 68,181 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(926.11 ft / 918.64 ft) x 131.23 ft x (32.68 / 33.85 ft)
(282.28 m / 280.00 m) x 40.00 m x (9.96 / 10.32 m)
Armament:
8 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,804.10lbs / 1,271.92kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.90lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
32 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
32 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 23,422 lbs / 10,624 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.2" / 385 mm 597.11 ft / 182.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
2.36" / 60 mm 597.11 ft / 182.00 m 30.94 ft / 9.43 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 104.99 ft / 32.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.5" / 420 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.54" / 166 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 11.81" / 300 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 192,911 shp / 143,912 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,524 tons
Complement:
2,041 - 2,654
Cost:
£21.240 million / $84.959 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,533 tons, 6.9 %
- Guns: 4,533 tons, 6.9 %
Armour: 21,693 tons, 33.2 %
- Belts: 6,374 tons, 9.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,615 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 3,675 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 9,204 tons, 14.1 %
- Conning Towers: 825 tons, 1.3 %
Machinery: 5,846 tons, 9.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 24,290 tons, 37.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,596 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,324 tons, 3.6 %
- Hull below water: 1,560 tons
- Hull above water: 227 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
- Above deck: 427 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
99,764 lbs / 45,252 Kg = 35.9 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 17.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 10.1 ft / 3.1 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.580 / 0.585
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.31 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.11 ft / 6.74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.2 %
Waterplane Area: 86,537 Square feet or 8,040 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 236 lbs/sq ft or 1,155 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.05
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
454t - 1918 FC
75t - NF Devices x 3
25t - LR Radio
100t - Flag Bridge
200t - Flag Quarters and Habitability Improvements
100t - Additional DC Equipment
110t - 4 x Armed Floatplane w/ 2 x Catapult
1460t - Electric Drives
Deck is 140mm with an 26mm Splinter
QD is a Box over the Shaft Runs and Steering Gear Only
Belt is 400mm in upper half, tapering to 340mm in lower half.
Range is 11500nm at 14kts
Certainly a powerful customer. Her dimensions will prevent her from using the Trans-Eryka Canal but you know that already.
Is the 40mm layout correct? Should those singles be quads?
The conning tower thicknesses seem kind of oddly intermediate?
The "keystone" of the Aztec Navy.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on April 11, 2024, 08:33:50 PMCertainly a powerful customer. Her dimensions will prevent her from using the Trans-Eryka Canal but you know that already.
Is the 40mm layout correct? Should those singles be quads?
The conning tower thicknesses seem kind of oddly intermediate?
It's a choice. Honestly I don't need her in the Pacific, especially now with Parthia and Japan as friendlies.
And yes, good catch on the 40s, arch.
The bridge armor is an affectation of the queen Fatimas mansions superstructure. Armor that is proof against secondary or cruiser fire and extensive redundancy instead of a single Conning tower that might still not protect from the shock of a hit. Balancing towards a less cramped and more efficient working environment rather than maximizing protection.
Joy, I get to do major design work all over again....since I lost so many files when my old computer died. I won't be doing any more of the Old DDs for refit, but I really do need to do refurbs on my M class BBs, the R-class Razees, and refits of my older fleet replenishment ships......now to decide when that's appropriate.