New decade, new thread. Standby.
I'm probably not going to build this, but it was a fun diversion to design and sketch: A small monitor using or re-using a twin 200mm turret for local coastal defence and shore bombardment.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920
Displacement:
2,010 t light; 2,134 t standard; 2,267 t normal; 2,373 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(221.37 ft / 213.25 ft) x 59.06 ft x (10.50 / 10.90 ft)
(67.47 m / 65.00 m) x 18.00 m x (3.20 / 3.32 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.87" / 200 mm 45.0 cal guns - 246.18lbs / 111.66kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1920 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 763 lbs / 346 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 138.62 ft / 42.25 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,341 shp / 1,000 Kw = 12.21 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 238 tons
Complement:
163 - 213
Cost:
£0.352 million / $1.408 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 169 tons, 7.5 %
- Guns: 169 tons, 7.5 %
Armour: 667 tons, 29.4 %
- Belts: 236 tons, 10.4 %
- Armament: 97 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 323 tons, 14.3 %
- Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 47 tons, 2.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,041 tons, 45.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 257 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 86 tons, 3.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 45 tons
- Above deck: 41 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless
-17 t: 1912 fire control (probably need 41 tons above deck total but oh well)
-44 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,995 lbs / 4,080 Kg = 36.8 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 11.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.605
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.52 ft / 4.12 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 38.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.3 %
Waterplane Area: 9,211 Square feet or 856 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 467 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 4.98
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
I also like to reuse old turrets.
I did this with the Harad class (AC8-6950t-2T2x234 + 10x152-27kts).
If you double the speed, you can make it an escort.
I think the main battery is insufficient to be a useful escort. I'd probably scale up to something like this for the "escort cruiser" function.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920
Displacement:
5,603 t light; 5,971 t standard; 6,410 t normal; 6,761 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(373.13 ft / 360.89 ft) x 68.90 ft x (18.04 / 18.79 ft)
(113.73 m / 110.00 m) x 21.00 m x (5.50 / 5.73 m)
Armament:
6 - 7.87" / 200 mm 45.0 cal guns - 246.19lbs / 111.67kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,026 lbs / 919 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 234.58 ft / 71.50 m 16.11 ft / 4.91 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 16,086 shp / 12,000 Kw = 21.11 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 790 tons
Complement:
357 - 465
Cost:
£1.100 million / $4.400 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 533 tons, 8.3 %
- Guns: 533 tons, 8.3 %
Armour: 2,034 tons, 31.7 %
- Belts: 997 tons, 15.5 %
- Armament: 407 tons, 6.3 %
- Armour Deck: 586 tons, 9.1 %
- Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 562 tons, 8.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,199 tons, 34.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 807 tons, 12.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 274 tons, 4.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 149 tons
- Above deck: 125 tons
Fittings:
-54 t: Fire control
-25 t: L/R wireless
-50 t: Command facilities
-25 t: Maybe a floatplane if there's deckspace for it
-Rest: Weight reserve or other things
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,766 lbs / 5,790 Kg = 52.3 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.24 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.2 %
Waterplane Area: 16,567 Square feet or 1,539 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 533 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.54
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Or you can split the difference and make a Thonburi.
S'pose I could.
Might play with that one a bit more - maybe shave a metre or two off the beam and add depth/BC instead.
Initial sketching suggests there's no way in hell I'm getting a floatplane aboard that one.
I consider my 21 kts cruisers like gunboats for the colonies. They have insufficient speed to work with battleships.
If you want a cruiser useful to the future:
- 24kts for an Escort Cruiser.
- 27kts for a squadron Cruiser
- 30kts is better (Magdala & Bug II).
Just my opinion
;)
At this point, I need any new cruisers working with the battleline to make 30 knots. That's only a margin of 4 on the battleships, and will be just even with the big armored cruisers.
This thing is strictly a trade defence vessel. Theoretically sturdy enough to fight or deter most typical raiders, short of a capital ship. It'd probably work fine in the shore bombardment role as well, of course.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 29, 2021, 03:12:04 PM
Initial sketching suggests there's no way in hell I'm getting a floatplane aboard that one.
You are just not trying hard enough, there is always a way...
Quote from: Desertfox on September 29, 2021, 04:12:17 PM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 29, 2021, 03:12:04 PM
Initial sketching suggests there's no way in hell I'm getting a floatplane aboard that one.
You are just not trying hard enough, there is always a way...
You could probably stick another two on the fantail. maybe add sponsons where the boats are and fit a couple more!
Then I'd have more than six aircraft and it would qualify as a carrier.
Speaking of carriers:
The Union's initial at-sea carrier testing program consisted of plunking a flying-off deck and a seaplane hanger on the ancient armored cruiser Dragon and letting it poke around the Baltic breaking aircraft for the last couple of years.
Now that the navy has a bit better sense of what it's all about (which is to say, the 1915 tech will be finished at the end of 1919), there are plans to expand the experimental program for a year or two of additional trials before any major construction is contemplated. This will consist of:
-A minor refit to the training cruiser Danube, which has the necessary weight reserve and a clear quarterdeck to accommodate temporary facilities for one unarmed recce floatplane. Danube will deploy on a lengthy cruise to the Caribbean afterward and work up with the squadron there, the first time the Union's had a seaborne aircraft aboard a modern, fast-ish cruiser. This'll largely be about developing aerial scouting tactics.
-An experimental seaplane carrier with a flying-off deck forward and a hanger aft. Here the point is to learn about operating a group of seaplanes and how to lay out the hanger and deck space for it. The navy's not expecting this to be a combat unit or even necessarily a long-serving unit, so it'll be new-built but with early-generation turbine machinery recycled from a cruiser, saving almost a third of the cost.
-And this:
The army's come to appreciate the utility of aircraft as recce and observation tools, but where it most needs them - the colonial frontiers - is often the hardest to actually operate them. There's no infrastructure to bring up parts or fuel, and just surveying and cutting an airstrip can be laborious. Given the size of some of the rivers in South America and Africa, however, and the army's history of successfully cooperating with the navy in riverine operations, the army proposed that the navy develop a small floatplane tender for riverine operations - essentially using the rivers themselves as airstrips and relying on river steamers to provide the fuel and parts supply.
The Wezownik (the Polish name for Ophiuchus, the snake-bearer - maybe an in-joke about snakes and jungles) will allow forward-deployment of up to three armed floatplanes along a major river such as the [Niger] or [Parana]. There's a hanger allowing for two aircraft to be stowed with wings folded or removed, and deck space to allow one other to be parked. It'll be a crowded set-up, and it's possible one or two of the aircraft will be kept on the river, tied up to the side of the ship, rather than being stowed aboard.
The provision for munitions is more a contingency than anything else; the primary use of the air group would be scouting, aerial photography, troop liaison, air mail, med-evac, and other non-combat functions.
The ship is armored against small-arms fire and splinters over her machinery room and magazine. Armament is minimal and self-defensive in nature. Bunkerage reflects a preference for oil, but allows for coal usage where circumstances require it.
Notionally Wezownik might be the first of several such vessels operating together in South Erika and Africa.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920
Displacement:
310 t light; 317 t standard; 329 t normal; 337 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(204.00 ft / 196.85 ft) x 29.53 ft x (2.95 / 3.02 ft)
(62.18 m / 60.00 m) x 9.00 m x (0.90 / 0.92 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1920 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
5 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 16.40 ft / 5.00 m 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 13 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines:
0.79" / 20 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 241 shp / 180 Kw = 10.05 kts
Range 1,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 20 tons (18% coal)
Complement:
38 - 50
Cost:
£0.029 million / $0.117 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 0.3 %
- Guns: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 32 tons, 9.7 %
- Belts: 10 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 2.1 %
- Armour Deck: 14 tons, 4.4 %
Machinery: 9 tons, 2.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 159 tons, 48.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 19 tons, 5.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 33.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 85 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons
Fittings:
-75 t: Facilities for three armed floatplanes (FD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Weight reserve or deck cargo
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,690 lbs / 2,581 Kg = 186.5 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.670 / 0.672
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 25 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 8.14 ft / 2.48 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 11.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.1 %
Waterplane Area: 4,535 Square feet or 421 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 203 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 138 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
I like it. Of course you're looking at floatplanes that are dropping glorified grenades and firing maybe a lone machine gun. But it's a good pick for riverine stuff. Fortunately for me, the terrain of most of my more colonial bits, especially those that could be contested, is suited to aircraft operation from barely improved fields.
Yeah, the actual combat utility of the whole three airplanes would be minimal, but perhaps demoralizing or even dangerous to a small guerilla or infantry group. I'd just rather build the capability in than leave it out and regret it later.
For the cost, it's worth it. It's more of an 'army liason aircraft' than true CAS, just not enough sorties/sortie rate for that. I'd suggest that if you enlarged them slightly you could do one or two things with them.
1 - Change the main armament to something a bit heftier, 70mm or greater. Effectively you get a small river monitor with aircraft that can spot its fire and adjust. So your planes aren't all that deadly.....anywhere within 5 miles of the river is still getting pounded, by artillery fire directed from your planes.
2 - Add on an additional 12t or so per plane of misc tonnage for fuel and ammo and stores, double or treble your sorties per plane. Could be useful for something that's expected to operate its planes for extended periods of time without going back to port for resupply.
These are certainly interesting thoughts but I might save them as "lessons learned" for one or more future classes.
Hmm, I have some 400t river MTB tenders that would be perfect for this role, just need the tech first.
I've got to pull out all the stops to get carriers in the works myself. Mostly because everybody else seems to be and I don't need to be too far behind. Of course once I get the tech, I'll have to scratch build because I don't have any good platforms to start with unless I want to turn an Implacable class BB into a carrier. Curse of losing practically the whole surface fleet in a war. OTOH, it means that my carriers won't be conversions and will be able to maximize utility even in their less efficient states, and be rebuilt with newer technologies....maybe even built with expansion space to accommodate anticipated improvements.
I think my current push is less about actual strategic/tactical need and more about OOH I CAN DRAW CARRIERS NOW.
It may also explain why I have at least two carrier classes in the works for 1920. Maybe three.
I'd be hard-pressed to convert a capital ship at this stage. It could happen in a political environment where I'm bound by a treaty to do or not do certain things, but voluntarily? I'd prefer not.
Mostly since my nation is a bit 'behind' in tech, I've had to prioritize, and carriers weren't a high priority versus aircraft themselves and other ship techs. I never anticipate that the RAN will be running around with fleet carriers, at least not before the late 30s. I anticipate some form of light carrier to escort my ships, but the Caribbean/Gulf has so much territory that can be covered by good land based planes that fleets of big carriers are really just huge targets.
I can see that I'll have an interest in having aircover in the Atlantic, while also having to consider environments like the Caribbean. It'll be delightful.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 05, 2021, 08:42:59 AM
I can see that I'll have an interest in having aircover in the Atlantic, while also having to consider environments like the Caribbean. It'll be delightful.
Yeah. Fortunately for me, the big Pacific power and I are on decent terms. Otherwise I'd have the most schizophrenic defense policy ever with a PacFlt designed around massive long range and airpower.....and then a Caribbean fleet based around more modest ranges and speeds, and all weather combat.
A smaller, less heavily armed, mostly unarmored sloop. It would serve a few functions - trade protection and inspection, escort of naval auxiliaries.
I went back to single 130mm as the beam seemed a bit narrow for twins.
The 50mm secondary is for close-in deterrence/bang during inspections and other boarding actions. The conning tower is armored against small-arms fire in case the inspectees are feeling their oats that day.
The range and speed would allow a decent operating radius across the Atlantic and the seakeeping is reasonable for that as well.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920
Displacement:
1,708 t light; 1,789 t standard; 2,050 t normal; 2,258 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(327.20 ft / 314.96 ft) x 37.73 ft x (13.12 / 14.08 ft)
(99.73 m / 96.00 m) x 11.50 m x (4.00 / 4.29 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
3 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 double raised mount
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 double raised mounts
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 20 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 290 lbs / 131 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18,766 shp / 14,000 Kw = 26.26 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 469 tons
Complement:
152 - 198
Cost:
£0.422 million / $1.688 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 77 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 77 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 53 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 49 tons, 2.4 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 656 tons, 32.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 766 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 341 tons, 16.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 157 tons, 7.7 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 57 tons
- Above deck: 85 tons
Fittings:
-7 t: Fire control
-50 t: Command facilities
-25 t : L/R wireless
-12 t: Triple heavyweight torpedo carriage
-15 t: ASW ordnance
-15 t: Enhanced Hydrophone Package
-10 t: Night-fighting doodads
-23 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,867 lbs / 847 Kg = 27.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.37
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.472
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.35 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 16.14 ft / 4.92 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.9 %
Waterplane Area: 7,643 Square feet or 710 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 267 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.77
- Longitudinal: 3.47
- Overall: 0.90
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
The Union's larger seaplane carrier experiment will be the Oriona.
The ship's design is driven by the knowledge that the Navy is still puzzling out what a seaplane carrier should do, how it should be laid out, etc. There's widespread recognition that the end product will likely be a learning experience or, as a few old salts might say, "A piece of shit". This has in turn driven a decision to re-use a repurposed set of turbine machinery that will be fifteen years old when it's installed in the Oriona. On the one hand, this likely costs the ship a few knots of speed. On the other hand, it negates over a third of its material costs.
It's not like Oriona was going to be running around with the battleline anyway - but she could keep pace with the older ships for exercise and doctrinal development purposes.
Anyway.
There's a flying-off deck forward, with a hanger for two wheeled fighters under it. This is accessed by a crane on the port side. There's no way to recover these guys, but it permits more experimentation with naval wheeled stuff than was possible before.
There's also a hanger and two cranes for up to four seaplanes, taking up the aft half of the ship. The hanger is theoretically large enough to stow all four seaplanes with wings folded, or two if not. There's a small air operations room atop the hanger, some trainable lights, that sort of thing. This is all about learning how to operate an airgroup, albeit a small one.
Given her largely experimental nature, the ship is very lightly armed, which is just as well since there's hardly anywhere to put guns. A couple of AA guns are on the roof of the hanger, and a single 10cm gun is jammed in on the centreline between the two funnels. Don't even ask about armor.
The objective is to put Oriona through the paces after her late 1920 completion and inform the possible development of future seaplane carriers/seaplane cruisers/flight-deck cruisers.
Oriona, laid down 1920 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
2,353 t light; 2,418 t standard; 2,963 t normal; 3,399 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(396.33 ft / 377.30 ft) x 45.93 ft x (12.47 / 13.81 ft)
(120.80 m / 115.00 m) x 14.00 m x (3.80 / 4.21 m)
Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1920 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
5 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 39 lbs / 18 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,064 shp / 9,000 Kw = 22.59 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 981 tons
Complement:
200 - 261
Cost:
£0.502 million / $2.007 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7 tons, 0.3 %
- Guns: 7 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 7 tons, 0.2 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 914 tons, 30.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,135 tons, 38.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 610 tons, 20.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 290 tons, 9.8 %
- Hull above water: 40 tons
- On freeboard deck: 175 tons
- Above deck: 75 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-50 t: Air operations center (AD)
-50 t: Flying-off deck, hanger, and facilities forward for two winged fighters (FD)
-100 t: Hanger, deck, and facilities aft for four armed floatplanes (FD)
-65 t: Weight reserve (FD and AW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,607 lbs / 2,090 Kg = 151.0 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.497
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.21 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 25.26 ft / 7.70 m, 25.26 ft / 7.70 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Average freeboard: 18.18 ft / 5.54 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 187.8 %
Waterplane Area: 11,341 Square feet or 1,054 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 284 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.65
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Definitely better than the Japanese Yodo conversion, which while very similar has a complete lack of hangar or facilities space.
One Tuesday afternoon for no particular reason, the Union decided to dust off the 1916 Emergency Battleship and update it.
The hull form was modified a little bit. Bit more bunkerage. Barbette protection was trimmed, and the belt length and thickness cut down, but the height of the belt was increased and it was sloped to give the equivalent of two standard (4.8m) deck heights.
There's enough miscellaneous weight for fire control and a long-range radio, and not a whole lot else. But that's what happens when you design something on a hard 15,000 tonnage cap on a Tuesday afternoon.
1920 Emergency Battleship, laid down 1920
Displacement:
14,962 t light; 15,807 t standard; 16,762 t normal; 17,526 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(451.87 ft / 439.63 ft) x 95.14 ft x (24.61 / 25.50 ft)
(137.73 m / 134.00 m) x 29.00 m x (7.50 / 7.77 m)
Armament:
6 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,319.36lbs / 598.45kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,743 lbs / 3,966 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 16.11 ft / 4.91 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 12.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 22.87 ft / 6.97 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.46 ft / 23.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 13.0" / 330 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 33,512 shp / 25,000 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,718 tons
Complement:
736 - 957
Cost:
£3.555 million / $14.221 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,834 tons, 10.9 %
- Guns: 1,834 tons, 10.9 %
Armour: 5,703 tons, 34.0 %
- Belts: 2,159 tons, 12.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 426 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 1,361 tons, 8.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,590 tons, 9.5 %
- Conning Tower: 167 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,172 tons, 7.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,984 tons, 35.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,800 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 270 tons, 1.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 85 tons
- Above deck: 185 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,100 lbs / 12,746 Kg = 21.5 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.575
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.62 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 18.90 ft / 5.76 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.5 %
Waterplane Area: 29,745 Square feet or 2,763 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.75
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Economical BB
I note the short hull, interesting study for PNJ.
The Union needed a 29m beam to fit the turret (or so they say) and length was the trade-off to keep the light displacement below 15,000 t.
Plus the Union can build a lot more ships in 150m docks than it can in larger docks.
Alright, I didn't quite appreciate how short that actually is. Shorter than my most recent monitor.
Still:
She is very similar to the Byzantine BB7.
1xBB6 = 2xBB7
30600t = 2x15300t
Cute ship! I like it.
Two Warta-class protected cruisers will be laid down in 1920.
Following recent trends, their armament consists of a decent number of the reliable 130mm quick-firing gun. Whereas the preceding Magdala and Bug II classes had a pair of singles on the sides amidships to boost fore/aft firepower, the Warta simply adds a fifth twin mount aft in a double-superfiring position. While the navy acknowledges that the 130mm lacks penetrating power compared to a 150mm or 170mm sized gun, it doesn't have those guns to employ. Plus 10 quick-firing guns should still make a mess of enemy torpedo-craft and find plenty of unarmored bits on enemy cruisers anyway. Right? Right.
The type has considerably more bunkerage than preceding types, which accounts for most of the size increase, really. They're built to keep up mile-for-mile with the Czarownik class cruisers of the line and have an additional knot of speed for incremental station-keeping purposes.
The other change of interest is provision for a single armed floatplane on deck between the first and second funnels. This would be used for scouting, perhaps spotting, and will build on operational experience gained by the training cruiser Danube's embarkation of a single floatplane in this time period. The ship may have a canvas shelter or such for the plane when completed but for now is shown just with basic deck stowage.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920
Displacement:
5,974 t light; 6,210 t standard; 7,068 t normal; 7,755 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491.48 ft / 479.00 ft) x 48.23 ft x (22.31 / 23.90 ft)
(149.80 m / 146.00 m) x 14.70 m x (6.80 / 7.28 m)
Armament:
10 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 double raised mount aft
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 684 lbs / 310 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 380.58 ft / 116.00 m 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 65,683 shp / 49,000 Kw = 31.05 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,545 tons
Complement:
385 - 501
Cost:
£1.407 million / $5.629 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 148 tons, 2.1 %
- Guns: 148 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 1,099 tons, 15.6 %
- Belts: 750 tons, 10.6 %
- Armament: 47 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 278 tons, 3.9 %
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,297 tons, 32.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,069 tons, 29.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,094 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 361 tons, 5.1 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 160 tons
- Above deck: 141 tons
Fittings
-15 t: 1912 Fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-100 t: Flag facilities (AD)
-24 t: 2x3 530mm torpedo carriages
-25 t: Provisions for one armed floatplane
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads
-84 t: Weight reserve
-60 t: Additional damage control equipment (BW/AW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,164 lbs / 2,343 Kg = 77.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.492
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.26 ft / 7.70 m, 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 20.34 ft / 6.20 m, 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
- Average freeboard: 17.98 ft / 5.48 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.0 %
Waterplane Area: 15,118 Square feet or 1,405 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 368 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 1.89
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Quote...Plus 10 quick-firing guns should still make a mess of enemy torpedo-craft and find plenty of unarmored bits on enemy cruisers anyway. Right? Right...
Right ;)
QuoteDisplacement:
5,974 t light; 6,210 t standard; 7,068 t normal; 7,755 t full load
Finally, for 1919, I am not a Fan of this type of ship (
Atlanta / Dido).
I think 4 x 1500t DDs - 2T2x130 + 6TTx533 - 32kts is a better investment.
Airstrip One, with a battlecruiser for scale/escort.
-As a reminder, the island is on the centreline, with dual flight decks to port and starboard.
-Yes, that is a "foot bridge" between forward and aft islands, elevated to allow aircraft to be passed underneath.
-Yes, there is an extra anchor hole forward.
-Elevators are at the ends of the flight deck, in theory. Pairs of them, in fact.
-But only one hanger level.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 15, 2021, 07:12:13 PM
-Yes, that is a "foot bridge" between forward and aft islands, elevated to allow aircraft to be passed underneath.
Interesting.
I'm eying something like Glorious, but with two islands connected with a skyway - like the letter H.
I was surprised to find the Brits actually considered something like that early on.
Quote from: Jefgte on October 31, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
QuoteDisplacement:
5,974 t light; 6,210 t standard; 7,068 t normal; 7,755 t full load
Finally, for 1919, I am not a Fan of this type of ship (Atlanta / Dido).
I think 4 x 1500t DDs - 2T2x130 + 6TTx533 - 32kts is a better investment.
The heavy all centerline twin light mounts on a large ship is an odd combo.
Even with my Bakr, specifically meant for a screening unit, I finally with with 165mm...and a heavier belt...and a heavier deck.
But not as much speed as it's a screening unit, not indep. ops.
Now, the Romans use 140mm on their cruisers, so 130mm isn't far behind,
but the Norse cruisers were using 155mm.
Compared to the Norse 1915
Danae, 10 vs 6 barrels, basically the same belt, same deck, and 1knot in speed, but 25% larger.
Jefgte's follow up the
Geilo class is similar but more robust.
You can't dictate the range reliably, so you will have to rely on a soft kill before they get a hard kill.
That's not to horrible as neither of you will be penetrating belts over ~9000m, but at that range the hit % is high.
Shell spotting range comes into it - as fire control computers get better, splash ranging becomes less important, but if you're counting on lots of hits, you need it.
So your 'fighting range' will be ~10-12,000m, and you'll have to work to keep him at that range with only 1 knot advantage, but if he veers away slightly you'll quickly
loose hit %, while if you both veer in, you'll close to where he can score some real damage.
However, that all presumes a daytime combat in decent visibility with freedom to maneuver. Further, you assume you can turn sufficiently to bring the rear 3 mounts to bear.
Me, I went with the larger gun in fewer mounts. Of course I was also sacrificing top speed...and Jefgte is now churning out even more 191mm ships, argh.
*Shell splashes - gun research - historically there seems to have been a range at which shell splashes could be used, varying by size. For simplicity I put down 1000m per 1 CM bore. The reality seems to be more like 1100-1200 per 1CM, but it's close. The drop off in SeeKrieg is 5-10%, which is not much close in, but at range matters alot.
I'm blaming Jef for this one.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
27,840 t light; 29,254 t standard; 31,143 t normal; 32,653 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(572.81 ft / 557.74 ft) x 104.99 ft (Bulges 111.55 ft) x (29.20 / 30.43 ft)
(174.59 m / 170.00 m) x 32.00 m (Bulges 34.00 m) x (8.90 / 9.28 m)
Armament:
6 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1921 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1921 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 12,840 lbs / 5,824 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 362.53 ft / 110.50 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 362.53 ft / 110.50 m 28.35 ft / 8.64 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m
- Hull Bulges:
0.39" / 10 mm 362.53 ft / 110.50 m 28.35 ft / 8.64 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 5.51" / 140 mm
Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm Quarter deck: 5.51" / 140 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 96,514 shp / 72,000 Kw = 26.59 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,399 tons
Complement:
1,171 - 1,523
Cost:
£6.680 million / $26.721 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,592 tons, 8.3 %
- Guns: 2,592 tons, 8.3 %
Armour: 11,047 tons, 35.5 %
- Belts: 3,687 tons, 11.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 599 tons, 1.9 %
- Bulges: 150 tons, 0.4 %
- Armament: 2,027 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 4,291 tons, 13.8 %
- Conning Tower: 294 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,323 tons, 10.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,212 tons, 32.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,303 tons, 10.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 665 tons, 2.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 265 tons
- Above deck: 400 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,750 lbs / 21,205 Kg = 23.9 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 7.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 7.8 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 23.36 ft / 7.12 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.0 %
Waterplane Area: 42,827 Square feet or 3,979 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 931 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.32
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Hmmm a pocket Rodney
;)
I suppose I could add a bit of length and a bit of speed to her for less than 30,000 tonnes.
Some wags in the design bureau were looking at the seaplane carrier Oriona and taking note of the utility of the taking-off ramp and two wheeled fighter planes as a defensive asset.
Sadly, of course, Oriona is far too slow to keep up with capital units that might desire friendly air cover. If the fleet's going to have friendly fighters overhead, they have to launch from something fast. Like a cruiser.
The wags thus grabbed blueprints of the Warta-class cruiser, made a copy, and started wreaking dark and terrible magics upon it. They got rid of "B" gun. They trunked the exhaust uptakes into two larger funnels rather than three small ones. They then offset the forward funnel (only) to starboard. They then narrowed Level 3 of the forward superstructure, offset it to starboard as well, and merged it with the forward funnel to reduce air turbulence.
Then they got rid of the stuff between the funnels like the torpedo carriages and the scouting floatplane. Instead, they smooshed a hanger atop the main deck from beside the forward funnel to just forward of the aft funnel. A single, not-too-big hydraulic lift and (they reckon) four wheeled fighters will just fit in there, with the roof serving as the rear of an unarmored flight deck which passes to port of the superstructure and terminates where "B" gun used to be.
In times of combat, the fighters would be launched to attack or scatter enemy spotters or recce aircraft/airships, then ditched for pilot rescue. In times of peace, the cruiser (and it is still considered a cruiser, just a weird one) would practice launching her complement toward friendly aerodromes ashore.
The pic shows the aviation cruiser above and the original Warta below.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
5,999 t light; 6,219 t standard; 7,068 t normal; 7,748 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491.48 ft / 479.00 ft) x 48.23 ft x (22.31 / 23.88 ft)
(149.80 m / 146.00 m) x 14.70 m x (6.80 / 7.28 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 260 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1921 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 double raised mount aft
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 549 lbs / 249 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 380.58 ft / 116.00 m 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 65,683 shp / 49,000 Kw = 31.05 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,529 tons
Complement:
385 - 501
Cost:
£1.473 million / $5.891 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 119 tons, 1.7 %
- Guns: 119 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 1,088 tons, 15.4 %
- Belts: 747 tons, 10.6 %
- Armament: 38 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 278 tons, 3.9 %
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,262 tons, 32.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,045 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,070 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 485 tons, 6.9 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 235 tons
- Above deck: 190 tons
Fittings:
-12 t: Current-gen FC (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-100 t: Air operations centre (AD)
-100 t: 4 wheeled fighters (split between AD and FD)
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads (FD)
-163 t: Weight reserve (3 t AD, else FD)
-60 t: Additional damage control equipment (AW/BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,446 lbs / 2,470 Kg = 81.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.491
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.26 ft / 7.70 m, 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 20.34 ft / 6.20 m, 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
- Average freeboard: 17.98 ft / 5.48 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.0 %
Waterplane Area: 15,118 Square feet or 1,405 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 361 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 1.88
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Weird... I love it!
I'll probably explore something that is full deck forward as well.
Maybe also an unarmored hull built up as a proper CV rather than a "6 A/C so not a carrier" cruiser.
The lengthy delay in acquiring any kind of landing deck capability is a bit of a nuisance here.
I'm not 100% certain I can build this until I have the 1918 tech done, which is a couple years off.
But notionally, it's an experimental aircraft landing trials ship. No launch facilities, though it could probably deal with floatplanes.
But there's a landing deck aft, and a big crash barrier to protect the superstructure. Below the deck is a hanger for two small and four wheeled aircraft with their wings folder/removed. A single hydraulic lift services the two.
Notionally, the ship could dispatch and operate floatplanes, and might work as a floatplane tender after the landing trials stuff is finished. Or I suppose it could be a small aircraft transport, using hanger and deck alike to haul...I dunno...twelve or fifteen planes around. Or maybe it could serve as a small, mobile aircraft maintenance unit for a forward operating fleet.
Of note, it uses one half of a recycled turbine set from an old light cruiser, so the cost would be around $2 rather than $2.47ish
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
2,474 t light; 2,535 t standard; 2,761 t normal; 2,941 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(321.54 ft / 311.68 ft) x 52.49 ft x (9.84 / 10.38 ft)
(98.01 m / 95.00 m) x 16.00 m x (3.00 / 3.16 m)
Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1920 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 46 lbs / 21 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 0.59" / 15 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 6,032 shp / 4,500 Kw = 18.26 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 406 tons
Complement:
189 - 247
Cost:
£0.362 million / $1.446 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 0.3 %
- Guns: 9 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 132 tons, 4.8 %
- Armament: 14 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 117 tons, 4.3 %
Machinery: 457 tons, 16.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,266 tons, 45.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 287 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 610 tons, 22.1 %
- Hull above water: 290 tons
- On freeboard deck: 290 tons
- Above deck: 30 tons
Fittings:
-25t: L/R Wireless (AD)
-1 t: FC (AD)
-150 t: Facilities for six armed aircraft
-434 t: Weight reserve/unallocated so far
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,374 lbs / 4,252 Kg = 307.2 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.606
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.41 ft / 7.44 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 305.4 %
Waterplane Area: 11,705 Square feet or 1,087 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 164 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 290 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.80
- Longitudinal: 7.74
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
An armed tug for salvage, rescue, and other duties like moving floating drydocks around.
Comes equipped with a couple of water cannons ("fire monitor" appears to be the technical term) and towing gear. The bow is lightly armored for pushing ships around.
I'd build some to commercial standards, notionally.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
1,009 t light; 1,037 t standard; 1,199 t normal; 1,328 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(200.13 ft / 196.85 ft) x 36.09 ft x (9.84 / 10.71 ft)
(61.00 m / 60.00 m) x 11.00 m x (3.00 / 3.26 m)
Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1921 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
3 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 31 lbs / 14 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 16.40 ft / 5.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
180.45 ft / 55.00 m Unarmoured ends
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 4,021 shp / 3,000 Kw = 17.95 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
But 19,000 nm @10.00 kts with diesel, electric efficiencies factored in
Bunker at max displacement = 290 tons
Complement:
101 - 132
Cost:
£0.143 million / $0.573 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 0.5 %
- Guns: 6 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 13 tons, 1.1 %
- Belts: 7 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 138 tons, 11.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 361 tons, 30.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 190 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 491 tons, 41.0 %
- Hull below water: 76 tons
- Hull above water: 90 tons
- On freeboard deck: 300 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-250 t: Towing and salvage stuff, including two fire monitors (FD)
-50 t: Pumps and stuff for salvage (AW)
-90 t: Weight reserve
-76 t: Diesel and electric machinery (BW)
-
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,003 lbs / 1,362 Kg = 98.4 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.611
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.36 ft / 5.90 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 12.85 ft / 3.92 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 55.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.2 %
Waterplane Area: 5,196 Square feet or 483 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 45 lbs/sq ft or 220 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 3.64
- Overall: 1.05
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
QuoteDisplacement:
1,009 t light; 1,037 t standard; 1,199 t normal; 1,328 t full load
...Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 3.64
- Overall: 1.05
1.00
;)
I'm leaving a little extra so it can handle getting bashed around and so forth.
Handy little ship. I should build some myself.
A gunship/monitor/coastal defence ship that would recycle both the main battery of the Wspanialy class battleships and the turbine machinery of a Lippe class protected cruiser. The end result would cost about $7.00 rather than $9.12.
The main battery is all-forward, allowing for placement of balloon or floatplane facilities aft.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
9,122 t light; 9,565 t standard; 10,752 t normal; 11,701 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(404.60 ft / 393.70 ft) x 82.02 ft x (19.42 / 20.83 ft)
(123.32 m / 120.00 m) x 25.00 m x (5.92 / 6.35 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.51lbs / 306.40kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1921 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1921 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,366 lbs / 1,527 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 232.94 ft / 71.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 160.73 ft / 48.99 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 18.57 ft / 5.66 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 62.34 ft / 19.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,064 shp / 9,000 Kw = 17.97 kts
Range 9,999nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,137 tons
Complement:
527 - 686
Cost:
£1.927 million / $7.709 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 631 tons, 5.9 %
- Guns: 631 tons, 5.9 %
Armour: 3,473 tons, 32.3 %
- Belts: 1,481 tons, 13.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 277 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 765 tons, 7.1 %
- Armour Deck: 867 tons, 8.1 %
- Conning Tower: 83 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 914 tons, 8.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,757 tons, 34.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,630 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 347 tons, 3.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 142 tons
- Above deck: 205 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,218 lbs / 10,078 Kg = 33.2 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.609
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Average freeboard: 15.70 ft / 4.78 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.0 %
Waterplane Area: 23,618 Square feet or 2,194 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 643 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.17
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
FINALLY
There is a specific refurbishment plan for the Wspanialy class pre-dreadnoughts.
Their anticipated life span is...limited. They'll likely be replaced in the next 6-7 years. But a lot can happen in six or seven years, so an effort has to be made to keep them mildly useful.
Re-arming them is not impossible, but studies have shown that the Union would need to down-gun to 25cm for a uniform main battery and that's not considered to be worth the effort on a 15,000 t ship that is twenty years old. Re-enginging is also possibly, and would provide for a speed of up to around 22 knots but again, is it worth the effort on a ship that is already twenty years old and under-gunned for her size?
So the plan is to keep things on the cheap, more or less.
-A glaring weakness of the class is that their 200mm secondary turrets have a mere 15mm of protection on the sides and tops. The ship's plans called for 50mm so the discrepancy is a mystery (fraud has been suspected, but never proven). At any rate, this will be replaced with the actual 50mm thick material it always should have been.
-The tertiary armament of casemate-mounted 130mm guns will be replaced with quick-firing versions. The quaternary battery of 8x50mm QF guns will be replaced by a quarter of 100mm anti-aircraft guns.
-The bunkerage will be converted to all-oil firing, which ups the range by around 50%. This'll reduce the number of crew required to operate the ship, make her cleaner, make her more difficult to spot at a distance, and of course let her steam further/faster without people dropping like flies from heat exhaustion.
-The miscellaneous weight can be increased due to the bunkerage change, so top-of-the-line Model 1918 fire control will be installed. With the 280mm/45 caliber guns updated just in the last year or so, it'll be a fairly effective main battery by pre-dreadnought standards. Also additional damage control facilities and much-expanded flag facilities, allowing for command and control of a squadron or amphibious operation. Torpedo nets have been installed.
Although miscellaneous weight remains allocated to underwater torpedo facilities, these are considered obsolete and have been sealed off to minimize the risk of internal flooding.
Torpedo bulges were considered but rejected due to cost.
Cost:
-Basic refurb: $3.033
-New 130mm, 100mm guns and machine guns: $0.326 and 0.163 BP
-New armor for these guns: $0.072 and 0.072 BP
-New side/top armor for 200mm guns: $0.069 and 0.069 BP
-Change to bunkerage: $0.772
-New miscellaneous weight (all but torpedo rooms): $0.597 and 0.597 BP
Total Cost: $4.87 and 0.901 BP
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1902 (refurbished 1921)
Displacement:
15,149 t light; 15,868 t standard; 16,726 t normal; 17,412 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(452.76 ft / 452.76 ft) x 78.74 ft x (25.26 / 26.14 ft)
(138.00 m / 138.00 m) x 24.00 m x (7.70 / 7.97 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.52lbs / 306.41kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 7.87" / 200 mm 45.0 cal guns - 246.19lbs / 111.67kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,606 lbs / 2,543 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 294.29 ft / 89.70 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 158.43 ft / 48.29 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 294.29 ft / 89.70 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 7.87" / 200 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 7.87" / 200 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,733 ihp / 13,975 Kw = 19.08 kts
Range 6,300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,544 tons
Complement:
734 - 955
Cost:
£1.373 million / $5.493 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,096 tons, 6.6 %
- Guns: 1,096 tons, 6.6 %
Armour: 5,970 tons, 35.7 %
- Belts: 3,124 tons, 18.7 %
- Armament: 1,418 tons, 8.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,150 tons, 6.9 %
- Conning Towers: 277 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 2,580 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,855 tons, 29.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,577 tons, 9.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 647 tons, 3.9 %
- Hull below water: 126 tons
- Hull above water: 76 tons
- On freeboard deck: 210 tons
- Above deck: 235 tons
Fittings:
-110 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-100 t: Command facilities (AD)
-138 t: Torpedo nets
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads (FD)
-47 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-152 t: Additional damage control facilities (AW/BW)
-50 t: Torpedo tubes and reloads (BW – sealed off but still in place)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,890 lbs / 10,837 Kg = 35.7 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.89
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.654
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.8 %
Waterplane Area: 27,310 Square feet or 2,537 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 661 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.35
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Warning: Date too early for anti-air gun - 4th battery SHUT UP SPRINGSHARP YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD
The Schweinfurt class torpedo-boats borrow heavily from other recent Union designs - the Quackenbush class sloops in terms of superstructure layout and the Puck class torpedo-boats for the hull.
The Union wasn't satisfied that it could fit four 130mm guns into this unit, however, so has indeed fitted it with a trio of new 2-gun 100mm/45 QF mountings. There's some concern that this means the class is under-armed compared to foreign contemporaries, but not horribly so.
On the other hand, they have a high top speed, long legs, and are well-suited to anti-submarine operations, so they'll likely be used to screen capital ships.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
1,499 t light; 1,562 t standard; 1,798 t normal; 1,987 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(372.05 ft / 360.89 ft) x 32.81 ft x (11.81 / 12.69 ft)
(113.40 m / 110.00 m) x 10.00 m x (3.60 / 3.87 m)
Armament:
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1921 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 189 lbs / 86 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 34,853 shp / 26,000 Kw = 31.95 kts
Range 11,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 426 tons
Complement:
137 - 179
Cost:
£0.494 million / $1.976 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 34 tons, 1.9 %
- Guns: 34 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 21 tons, 1.2 %
- Armament: 21 tons, 1.2 %
Machinery: 945 tons, 52.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 398 tons, 22.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 299 tons, 16.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 5.6 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 55 tons
- Above deck: 30 tons
Fittings:
-4t: 1918 Fire Control (AD)
-25t: L/R wireless (AD)
-24t: 2x3 530mm torpedo carriages (FD)
-10t: Night-fighting doodads (FD)
-15t: ASW munitions (FD)
-15t: Enhanced hydrophones (BW)
-7t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
439 lbs / 199 Kg = 14.4 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.463
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Forward deck: 22.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Aft deck: 43.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.46 ft / 4.10 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.3 %
Waterplane Area: 7,553 Square feet or 702 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 144 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.22
- Overall: 0.54
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Almost a decade after the Battle of Dakar, there is still intense political debate in the Vilnius Union about whether armored cruisers/battlecruisers/cruisers of the line have supplanted the battleship as the ship of force in the 20th century.
Complicating the discussion is a growing recognition that the Vilnius Union's access to the larger world - including all its external territorial possessions - must flow through one of two choke points created by whatever we're calling the British Isles. One outlet is around the isles to the north, through the North Sea, between core Northern Kingdom lands. The other is around the isles to the south, via whatever we're calling the English Channel, tightly constricted by core Roman territories.
If the Union is at war with either of these polities, access to the Atlantic becomes...problematic.
The perceived wisdom is that a partial solution to this is for Union capital ships to have a sprint capability that minimizes time in these constricted waters and for a hostile neighbour to react to a sortie once initiated. Bunkerage must also be high to support such a sprint although (SPOILER) the notion of underway oiling is of great interest to Union thinkers right now. This explains why the Czarownik class cruisers of the line can carry so much more oil than the preceding Szermierz class, and why other, smaller Union combatants have seen their bunkerage increase in recent design work.
All that to say, the next Union capital ship was going to be fast and long-legged regardless of whether it was a cruiser of the line or a battleship. As it happens, the Johann Encke is considered a battleship, though her armament very closely follows the Czarowniks and her appearance is not that dissimilar.
Encke does carry marginally heavier belts, with greater inclination, and the deck protection is substantially heavier as well.
Of note, the class embarks a single floatplane amidships - unprotected from the elements at this time.
Johann Encke will be laid down in 1/21; a sister is expected in 1922. It is not yet clear whether the class will extend to four, like the preceding Angstrom class, or if hypothetical battleships G and H will be a later, different class.
On a design note, I'm ret-conning introduction of sloped funnel caps, which I've shown in the Czarowniks and other recent designs. It just doesn't look right for 1921. The sketch below illustrates the return to "flat" funnel tops.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
38,902 t light; 40,834 t standard; 43,233 t normal; 45,152 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(717.65 ft / 700.46 ft) x 108.27 ft (Bulges 114.83 ft) x (30.84 / 32.04 ft)
(218.74 m / 213.50 m) x 33.00 m (Bulges 35.00 m) x (9.40 / 9.77 m)
Armament:
8 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1921 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1921 Model
8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,202 lbs / 7,802 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 455.31 ft / 138.78 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 455.31 ft / 138.78 m 29.20 ft / 8.90 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m
- Hull Bulges:
0.59" / 15 mm 455.31 ft / 138.78 m 29.20 ft / 8.90 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 5.51" / 140 mm
Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm Quarter deck: 5.51" / 140 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 14.96" / 380 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 112,601 shp / 84,000 Kw = 27.07 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,318 tons
Complement:
1,498 - 1,948
Cost:
£8.878 million / $35.513 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,472 tons, 8.0 %
- Guns: 3,472 tons, 8.0 %
Armour: 15,861 tons, 36.7 %
- Belts: 4,487 tons, 10.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 968 tons, 2.2 %
- Bulges: 291 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 4,109 tons, 9.5 %
- Armour Deck: 5,610 tons, 13.0 %
- Conning Tower: 397 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,877 tons, 9.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,683 tons, 34.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,330 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,009 tons, 2.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 499 tons
- Above deck: 510 tons
Fittings:
-348 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-100 t: Flag facilities (AD)
-50 t: Redundant L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (FD)
-25 t: Armed seaplane (FD)
-461 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
68,538 lbs / 31,088 Kg = 35.1 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 11.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 17.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.16
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.613
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.10 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.20 ft / 8.90 m, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
- Average freeboard: 23.77 ft / 7.24 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.8 %
Waterplane Area: 55,986 Square feet or 5,201 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,016 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Yeah, everything's getting so "Big" so fast now.
I keep debating what I want to do in 1922 when the Monarchs are complete. The Implacables are obsolete already, owing to their guns just not having the punch to do anything noteworthy against basically any modern battleship's belt. The Monarchs are as powerful as you can squeeze out of a BB under 27,000t. But I'm basically in the same position where my fleet is either fighting in constricted waters like the Gulf, or has to race through Roman-controlled or mayan-controlled waters to get to the Outer Gates.
I keep seeing these big beautiful fast battleships.....and realizing that I'm going to just have to bite the bullet.
They are growing fast, but I don't see incentive to build smaller (in my case). It's more affordable to build in the speed, armament, and protection I want now than to skimp and do a refurbishment in ten years.
On the other hand, unless I decide I "need" an Iowa or a Yamato, there's not a lot of reason to escalate beyond where I'm at now. And they don't make future arms control treaties impossible. Just maybe difficult.
Quote...Complicating the discussion is a growing recognition that the Vilnius Union's access to the larger world - including all its external territorial possessions - must flow through one of two choke points created by whatever we're calling the British Isles. One outlet is around the isles to the north, through the North Sea, between core Northern Kingdom lands. The other is around the isles to the south, via whatever we're calling the English Channel, tightly constricted by core Roman territories.
If the Union is at war with either of these polities, access to the Atlantic becomes...problematic...
Did you have enough
North Sea Destroyers to escort your Battle Line through the 2 Atlantic passages?
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 31, 2022, 02:05:32 PM
They are growing fast, but I don't see incentive to build smaller (in my case). It's more affordable to build in the speed, armament, and protection I want now than to skimp and do a refurbishment in ten years.
On the other hand, unless I decide I "need" an Iowa or a Yamato, there's not a lot of reason to escalate beyond where I'm at now. And they don't make future arms control treaties impossible. Just maybe difficult.
I mean its pretty close to an Iowa.
But it is a good ship
Quote from: Jefgte on January 31, 2022, 05:49:24 PM
Quote...Complicating the discussion is a growing recognition that the Vilnius Union's access to the larger world - including all its external territorial possessions - must flow through one of two choke points created by whatever we're calling the British Isles. One outlet is around the isles to the north, through the North Sea, between core Northern Kingdom lands. The other is around the isles to the south, via whatever we're calling the English Channel, tightly constricted by core Roman territories.
If the Union is at war with either of these polities, access to the Atlantic becomes...problematic...
Did you have enough North Sea Destroyers to escort your Battle Line through the 2 Atlantic passages?
Minimum of four destroyers per capital ship, with the contemporary S class having pretty good legs for the type.
Quote from: TacCovert4 on January 31, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 31, 2022, 02:05:32 PM
They are growing fast, but I don't see incentive to build smaller (in my case). It's more affordable to build in the speed, armament, and protection I want now than to skimp and do a refurbishment in ten years.
On the other hand, unless I decide I "need" an Iowa or a Yamato, there's not a lot of reason to escalate beyond where I'm at now. And they don't make future arms control treaties impossible. Just maybe difficult.
I mean its pretty close to an Iowa.
But it is a good ship
I think of it more as a beefier SoDak, but yeah, it's not far off.
A short-ranged, relatively fast "lifeboat" for customs/law enforcement/search-and-rescue work in places without a normal fast naval presence. Obviously the lifeboat lacks the seakeeping ability of a larger ship, but 0.69 isn't terrible for the speed and size.
Much as I'd prefer to try out diesels on this thing for fuel efficiency, the weight requirements don't let it work. That said, the lifeboat's machinery takes up half the weight and so should qualify as destroyer-standard hardware.
A small amount of miscellaneous weight is set aside as a working space - for customs agents to ride-along, or to house survivors, that sort of thing.
It'd be built as an auxiliary, in theory. The colors in the sketch reflect service in the Union Coast Guard
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
55 t light; 57 t standard; 61 t normal; 64 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(87.81 ft / 82.02 ft) x 13.12 ft x (4.92 / 5.08 ft)
(26.76 m / 25.00 m) x 4.00 m x (1.50 / 1.55 m)
Armament:
2 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,273 shp / 950 Kw = 19.52 kts
Range 160nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7 tons
Complement:
10 - 14
Cost:
£0.016 million / $0.064 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.1 %
- Guns: 0 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 31 tons, 50.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 22 tons, 35.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5 tons, 8.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 5.0 %
- Hull above water: 3 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25 lbs / 11 Kg = 825.4 x 0.4 " / 10 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.87
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.407
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 9.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 79 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.97 ft / 0.60 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 7.41 ft / 2.26 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88.5 %
Waterplane Area: 663 Square feet or 62 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 13 lbs/sq ft or 62 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 13.81
- Overall: 0.70
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Oh crap my engine year is all wrong.
Time to prune this timeline?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/fr3jOWAqfk505uRVXg/giphy.gif)
Quote from: snip on February 05, 2022, 12:22:01 PM
Time to prune this timeline?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/fr3jOWAqfk505uRVXg/giphy.gif)
I don't get the reference but I have fixed the post, at least.
oh no
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
5,465 t light; 5,674 t standard; 6,397 t normal; 6,975 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(490.08 ft / 475.72 ft) x 49.21 ft x (17.39 / 18.63 ft)
(149.38 m / 145.00 m) x 15.00 m x (5.30 / 5.68 m)
Armament:
1 - 11.81" / 300 mm 45.0 cal gun - 830.83lbs / 376.86kg shells, 75 per gun
Breech loading gun in turret on barbette mount, 1921 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1921 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,163 lbs / 527 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 50,939 shp / 38,000 Kw = 29.36 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,301 tons
Complement:
356 - 464
Cost:
£1.383 million / $5.531 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 267 tons, 4.2 %
- Guns: 267 tons, 4.2 %
Armour: 1,070 tons, 16.7 %
- Belts: 666 tons, 10.4 %
- Armament: 81 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 300 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,754 tons, 27.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,270 tons, 35.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 932 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 105 tons, 1.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 55 tons
Fittings:
-27 t: 1918 fire control
-25 t: L/R wireless
-25 t: Armed floatplane
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads
-3 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,898 lbs / 3,129 Kg = 8.4 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.560
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.45 ft / 5.32 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.5 %
Waterplane Area: 16,339 Square feet or 1,518 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 432 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
After destroyers, it's cruiser.
I'm waiting for the 400/45 gun... or super monitor.
;)
I refer you to the 1918-built Attakulla with a triple 400/45 turret.
Unless/until I jump to 450mm, it's probably the biggest monitor I'll put out.
The Union's icebreaker fleet is getting a little long in the tooth, so a new class will be built to replace the oldest units.
Like the rest of the icebreaker fleet, the Helgoland and sisters will be operated by the Coast Guard. There is a light armament for inspection and law enforcement duties, some towing capability, and a working space that can accommodate wreck survivors.
I have modelled light belts to protect against single-year ice, and added a fair bit of below-water miscellaneous weight to represent hull bracing, extra subdivision, and all that jazz.
That said, the class will be built to mercantile standards.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
1,785 t light; 1,825 t standard; 1,983 t normal; 2,110 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(204.30 ft / 196.85 ft) x 39.37 ft x (13.78 / 14.52 ft)
(62.27 m / 60.00 m) x 12.00 m x (4.20 / 4.43 m)
Armament:
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8 lbs / 4 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 144.36 ft / 44.00 m 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 52.49 ft / 16.00 m 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 6,703 ihp / 5,000 Kw = 18.63 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 284 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
148 - 193
Cost:
£0.312 million / $1.249 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0.1 %
- Guns: 2 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 36 tons, 1.8 %
- Belts: 34 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 427 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 695 tons, 35.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 198 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 625 tons, 31.5 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 300 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-100 t: Emergency accommodations (FD)
-150 t: Towing rig (FD)
-150 t: Weight reserve (FD/AW)
-200 t: Hull reinforcement and pumps (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,008 lbs / 1,364 Kg = 788.6 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.44
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.656
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 16.85 ft / 5.14 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.3 %
Waterplane Area: 5,937 Square feet or 552 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 316 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.08
- Longitudinal: 9.49
- Overall: 1.34
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
12.61 kts astern from single forward-facing 1,000 kw shaft
18.63 kts ahead from two 2,500 kw shafts
A high-speed ferry for transporting troops across the Baltic. Notionally, one can move troops between Scandinavia and "mainland" Europe either through Denmark or through not-Russia and Finland - but if one route is cut off by enemy action, the other requires a pretty long, circuitous route to get stuff there.
A few fast ferries allow for another option, direct routing through the Baltic, say from Riga to Stockholm or such. If both land routes are active, great - the ferries can reduce the need to move soldiers and light gear by rail. If not, great - the ferries can cross the Baltic in a matter of hours and allow rapid troop redeployments to meet Northern Kingdom or Golden Horde aggression in particular.
Similar craft might offer utility in external territories, but I haven't checked distances yet. A heavier defensive armament might be necessary there since their waters aren't a Union lake like the Baltic is.
The armament is mostly about shore security; the single big gun is there primarily in case an enemy submarine manages to get into the Baltic and make a nuisance of itself.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922
Displacement:
2,419 t light; 2,477 t standard; 2,643 t normal; 2,775 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(325.69 ft / 318.24 ft) x 49.21 ft x (9.84 / 10.25 ft)
(99.27 m / 97.00 m) x 15.00 m x (3.00 / 3.12 m)
Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1922 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount aft
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 40,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 31 lbs / 14 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 9,383 shp / 7,000 Kw = 20.67 kts
Range 1,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 297 tons
Complement:
183 - 239
Cost:
£0.357 million / $1.427 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 6 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 1 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 318 tons, 12.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,054 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 223 tons, 8.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,040 tons, 39.4 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- Hull above water: 300 tons
- On freeboard deck: 500 tons
- Above deck: 140 tons
Fittings:
-640 t: Short-term accommodation for ~2,000 troops (mix of AD, FD and AW)
-300 t: Cargo/vehicle/working animal space (FD)
-100 t: Bulk cargo (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,587 lbs / 3,895 Kg = 281.4 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.605
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.47 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 234.7 %
Waterplane Area: 11,455 Square feet or 1,064 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 156 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 277 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 3.93
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
A train ferry, not so much because I have a desperate need for them but because it's an excuse to draw trains and ships at the same time.
Although they would also offer utility in the Baltic for the same reason as the troop ferry would.
I've simmed most of the miscellaneous weight as "above water", rather than "freeboard deck" given that historical photos show solid sides at least partway above the rail deck. Putting it all on the freeboard deck does not actually make a huge difference to seakeeping or stability, though. The beam would - judging from pics of the historical Train Ferry #3, allow for four sets of parallel standard gauge tracks of around 250-300 feet length each. The bow is fully enclosed; the ship would back in to the pier and load/unload from the quarterdeck.
This seems like a good case for a nice diesel/electric drive, so one is fitted. It would take less than half a day to cross from Stockholm to Riga, as an example, and not require fueling after each trip.
Obviously such ships would be built to mercantile standards, assuming I build them at all.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
3,133 t light; 3,198 t standard; 3,230 t normal; 3,256 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(327.79 ft / 324.15 ft) x 59.06 ft x (7.87 / 7.93 ft)
(99.91 m / 98.80 m) x 18.00 m x (2.40 / 2.42 m)
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 2,681 shp / 2,000 Kw = 13.90 kts
Range 500nm at 10.00 kts (950nm factoring in diesel/electric propulsion)
Bunker at max displacement = 58 tons
Complement:
213 - 278
Cost:
£0.312 million / $1.248 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 92 tons, 2.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,240 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 97 tons, 3.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,801 tons, 55.8 %
- Hull below water: 51 tons
- Hull above water: 1,350 tons
- On freeboard deck: 400 tons
Fittings:
-51 t: Diesel/electric drive (BW)
-150 t: Tracks and carriage securing stuff (AW)
-1,600 t: Cargo (mostly AW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,869 lbs / 5,384 Kg = 109.9 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.83
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.750 / 0.751
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.49 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.05 ft / 5.20 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 254.0 %
Waterplane Area: 16,034 Square feet or 1,490 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 163 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 61 lbs/sq ft or 296 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.93
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on February 22, 2022, 11:06:58 AM
A train ferry, not so much because I have a desperate need for them but because it's an excuse to draw trains and ships at the same time.
ok that got a chuckle :)
And now I want one just because, not that I actually need it.
Quote from: Desertfox on February 22, 2022, 11:24:01 AM
And now I want one just because, not that I actually need it.
Trans-Pacific Railways......
I mean he has all sorts of archipelagos in his dastardly empire.
As speculated a few years back, the royal family would like a new and improved ocean-going yacht for service outside the Baltic.
The ship makes use of diesel engines and geared drive for an effective cruising range at good speed; she could steam from Amsterdam to Nieupoort in 8.5 days at 20 knots, as an example.
There are four guns for saluting, and six machine gun installations for security purposes. The conning tower represents a "safe room" for VIPs.
The yacht has extensive living, entertaining, and working space for the royal family and retinue. There is also a multi-level and fairly palatial set of accommodations for a second VIP - such as the Prime Minister or a foreign dignitary and retinue - that can be isolated for security purposes if required. Ten staterooms for other guests are also included.
Notionally the ship could be converted to a hospital ship in times of war but I've not worked up the distribution of miscellaneous weight in that scenario.
Contrary to earlier statements, I'd build this to mercantile standards, not milspec.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
3,752 t light; 3,841 t standard; 4,323 t normal; 4,708 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(380.35 ft / 367.45 ft) x 55.77 ft x (14.76 / 15.75 ft)
(115.93 m / 112.00 m) x 17.00 m x (4.50 / 4.80 m)
Armament:
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16 lbs / 7 kg
Armour:
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 13,405 shp / 10,000 Kw = 21.63 kts
Range 2,500nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 868 tons
Complement:
266 - 346
Cost:
£0.501 million / $2.005 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.1 %
- Guns: 4 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 34 tons, 0.8 %
- Conning Tower: 34 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 462 tons, 10.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,474 tons, 34.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 570 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,780 tons, 41.2 %
- Hull below water: 420 tons
- Hull above water: 400 tons
- On freeboard deck: 600 tons
- Above deck: 360 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-100 t: Royal Suite (AD)
-175 t: Main dining/meeting space (AD)
-60 t: Primary guest suite (AD)
-100 t: Ten staterooms (guests) (FD)
-126 t: Accommodation and working space for 7 senior & 14 junior aides (guests) (FD)
-150 t: Accommodation and working space for 15 senior/intermediate aides (FD)
-274 t: Main entertainment space (FD)
-400 t: Accommodation and working space for 100 junior aides (AW)
-281 t: Cargo and vehicle hold (BW)
-139 t: Diesel machinery (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,284 lbs / 5,118 Kg = 2,958.7 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.59 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.18 ft / 6.15 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 56.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192.5 %
Waterplane Area: 13,655 Square feet or 1,269 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 157 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 67 lbs/sq ft or 328 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.89
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
2500@20 --> 4,600 w/diesel and geared drive
3300@18 --> 6,100 w/diesel and geared drive
5400@15 --> 9,900 w/diesel and geared drive
Initial trials of the two Wezownik class riverine seaplane carriers suggested that there is some utility to the type, but also indicated that the layout was a little cramped for three aircraft. The Waz class basically stretches the existing design in draught and length, providing for hanger space for four aircraft (wings folded) and two on-deck handling areas with individual cranes.
Unlike her predecessors, the Waz can't be built in the Baltic and then loaded onto a Borys-class sealift ship for transport across the Atlantic. She's just a bit too long. Nor would she be particularly seaworthy as a tow or under power with extra coal as deck cargo. Consequently, she'll be the first ship built in the Widoknagory 100m drydock in South Erica.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
435 t light; 445 t standard; 458 t normal; 469 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(268.46 ft / 260.17 ft) x 29.53 ft x (3.12 / 3.18 ft)
(81.83 m / 79.30 m) x 9.00 m x (0.95 / 0.97 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1921 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
5 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 22.97 ft / 7.00 m 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 14 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines:
0.79" / 20 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 316 shp / 236 Kw = 10.28 kts
Range 1,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 25 tons (18% coal)
Complement:
49 - 64
Cost:
£0.043 million / $0.174 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 1 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 35 tons, 7.5 %
- Belts: 12 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 16 tons, 3.4 %
Machinery: 11 tons, 2.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 241 tons, 52.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 24 tons, 5.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 147 tons, 32.1 %
- Hull below water: 5 tons
- On freeboard deck: 117 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons
Fittings:
-100 t: Capacity for four armed floatplanes
-25 t: L/R wireless
-17 t: Weight reserve/deck cargo
-5 t: Extra supplies
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,136 lbs / 3,690 Kg = 266.7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 8.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.670 / 0.672
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.81 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.13 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 18 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 10.14 ft / 3.09 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 11.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.4 %
Waterplane Area: 5,993 Square feet or 557 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 222 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 147 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Oh shiny! Japanese Guyana could use one of those. I'll be contacting you about ordering one. How would a "mercantile" version look like?
Probably just a matter of removing the guns and assigning 20t per aircraft rather than 25.
A toothless version.
Completely forgot I'd put in armor on the original so I'll edit that post shortly to ensure it covers the machinery.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921
Displacement:
435 t light; 445 t standard; 458 t normal; 469 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(268.46 ft / 260.17 ft) x 29.53 ft x (3.12 / 3.18 ft)
(81.83 m / 79.30 m) x 9.00 m x (0.95 / 0.97 m)
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 316 shp / 236 Kw = 10.28 kts
Range 1,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 25 tons (18% coal)
Complement:
49 - 64
Cost:
£0.043 million / $0.171 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 11 tons, 2.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 237 tons, 51.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 23 tons, 5.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 187 tons, 40.8 %
- Hull below water: 7 tons
- Hull above water: 10 tons
- On freeboard deck: 140 tons
- Above deck: 30 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,871 lbs / 3,117 Kg = 225.2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.670 / 0.672
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.81 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.13 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 18 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 10.14 ft / 3.09 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 13.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.4 %
Waterplane Area: 5,993 Square feet or 557 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 219 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 145 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.19
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Royal yacht Stanislav I...
A small oiler to support Union operations in the Atlantic and eastern Pacific. This isn't going to be powering battlegroups along or solving the world cruise supply problem. It would, however, carry enough oil to more or less fill a protected cruiser or top up a quartet of torpedo-boats if they happen to be doing extended work away from port.
The ship's length and draft also allow use of small docks and shallower harbours away from the Union's primary ports, if that happens to be an issue.
The ship has a fairly large bunker of its own, and efficient machinery, allowing for a large cruise radius. The powerplant allows her to run at fifteen knots on less than half power.
The class would be built to civilian standards.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922
Displacement:
2,999 t light; 3,091 t standard; 3,678 t normal; 4,148 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(311.87 ft / 304.13 ft) x 42.65 ft x (18.04 / 19.86 ft)
(95.06 m / 92.70 m) x 13.00 m x (5.50 / 6.05 m)
Armament:
1 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal gun - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck and hoist mount, 1922 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 129 lbs / 59 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 6,703 shp / 5,000 Kw = 18.28 kts
Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts (25,000 nm with geared/electric boni)
Bunker at max displacement = 1,057 tons
Complement:
236 - 307
Cost:
£0.399 million / $1.596 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 30 tons, 0.8 %
- Guns: 30 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 11 tons, 0.3 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 227 tons, 6.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 938 tons, 25.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 679 tons, 18.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,793 tons, 48.7 %
- Hull below water: 757 tons
- Hull above water: 750 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 86 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-40 t: Accommodation for 20 passengers (AD)
-21 t: Weight reserve/mail (AD)
-100 t: Dry stores (FD)
-100 t: Oiling gear (FD)
-1,450 t: Fuel oil cargo (BW/AW)
-57 t: Electric drive (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,248 lbs / 2,834 Kg = 93.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.564
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 25.26 ft / 7.70 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarter deck: 25.00 %, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
- Average freeboard: 16.05 ft / 4.89 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.7 %
Waterplane Area: 9,053 Square feet or 841 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 157 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 286 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 3.11
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Giving thought to a refurbishment of the ever-popular Lucznik class armored cruisers, which are just over a decade old right now.
Armament-wise, I'd swap out the existing 130mm guns for 130 QFs and replace the existing 50mm QF guns with an AA suite. There isn't much deck space to add new mountings anywhere. Maybe a twin 130mm M&H to replace the existing forward deck 130 casemates.
The protection scheme is...actually not bad. I'd add bulges, with 25mm of armor, to improve torpedo protection. The armor only costs 0.305 BP but the bulges add 1,630 t to the light displacement and I'm not sure how to cost this, exactly.
The big changes would be swapping out the old turbines and oil-fired coal bunkers. The old machinery weight is the limiting factor on the new stuff, and even with the new bulges, I can bump the speed from 25.6 to 27.6 knots. The range would go up to 16,400 nm @ 10 knots, with an additional bonus from switching to geared turbines.
Ballpark cost (depending on how I deal with the armament and misc. weight): $11.5 and 4.17 BP. This assumes the "bulges" only cost the $ and BP of the bulge armor, and not the change of the displacement.
However, I do have a fair margin of hull strength on the finished product still...
Alternately, I can leave the machinery in place, while flipping it to all-oil fired anyway. The older engines are oil-hogs, apparently, so the same weight of oil would get me less mileage. The bulges cost me about 0.4 knots, which isn't dreadful. I'm ball-parking the cost at about $6 and 1.30 BP in this scenario.
Below is the SS for the more intensive refurb, and the sketch of the original to remind y'all of the deck space challenge.
Lucznik, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1909 (Engine 1922)
Displacement:
17,972 t light; 18,805 t standard; 20,225 t normal; 21,361 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(524.93 ft / 524.93 ft) x 82.02 ft (Bulges 88.58 ft) x (26.25 / 27.53 ft)
(160.00 m / 160.00 m) x 25.00 m (Bulges 27.00 m) x (8.00 / 8.39 m)
Armament:
8 - 9.84" / 250 mm 45.0 cal guns - 480.81lbs / 218.09kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,781 lbs / 2,169 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 341.21 ft / 104.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 2.95" / 75 mm 183.69 ft / 55.99 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Upper: 5.12" / 130 mm 341.21 ft / 104.00 m 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Hull Bulges:
0.98" / 25 mm 341.21 ft / 104.00 m 24.51 ft / 7.47 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 9.84" / 250 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 84,450 shp / 63,000 Kw = 27.57 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,557 tons
Complement:
847 - 1,102
Cost:
£1.434 million / $5.738 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,018 tons, 5.0 %
- Guns: 1,018 tons, 5.0 %
Armour: 6,612 tons, 32.7 %
- Belts: 3,058 tons, 15.1 %
- Bulges: 305 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 1,356 tons, 6.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,578 tons, 7.8 %
- Conning Towers: 315 tons, 1.6 %
Machinery: 2,865 tons, 14.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,028 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,253 tons, 11.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.2 %
- Hull below water: 50 tons
- Above deck: 400 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34,162 lbs / 15,496 Kg = 71.7 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.580 / 0.584
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 23.36 ft / 7.12 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.6 %
Waterplane Area: 30,906 Square feet or 2,871 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 782 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.07
- Longitudinal: 2.47
- Overall: 1.16
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Warning: Date too early for anti-air gun - 3rd Battery dammit it's my ship and I'll add flak if I want to.
Bumped the bulge to 50mm and added 180 t of damage control misc. weight (not reflected in the post above).
Total project costs works out to $11.81 and 4.292 BP per ship. Looks to be slightly more than six months of work.
A new coastal minesweeper with sufficient fittings to do coastal ASW or inspection functions as well.
Would be built to auxiliary standards, assuming the minelaying capability doesn't count as offensive weaponry. If it does, I might rethink that allocation.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922
Displacement:
488 t light; 501 t standard; 554 t normal; 597 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(163.40 ft / 156.82 ft) x 31.17 ft x (7.22 / 7.65 ft)
(49.81 m / 47.80 m) x 9.50 m x (2.20 / 2.33 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1922 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1922 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
2 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17 lbs / 8 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,011 shp / 1,500 Kw = 16.63 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 95 tons
Complement:
56 - 74
Cost:
£0.075 million / $0.300 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 0.6 %
- Guns: 3 tons, 0.6 %
Armour: 2 tons, 0.3 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 68 tons, 12.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 213 tons, 38.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 66 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 201 tons, 36.3 %
- Hull below water: 35 tons
- On freeboard deck: 156 tons
- Above deck: 10 tons
Fittings:
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-20 t: Hull reinforcement (BW)
-100 t: Sweeping gear
-40 t: Fitted to lay 40 mines
-6 t: ASW munitions
-1 t: 1918 fire control
-19 t : Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,940 lbs / 880 Kg = 150.7 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.39
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.558
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.03 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.52 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 12.05 ft / 3.67 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 49.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.5 %
Waterplane Area: 3,411 Square feet or 317 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 159 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 190 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 6.02
- Overall: 1.10
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on April 10, 2022, 08:22:10 PM
Would be built to auxiliary standards, assuming the minelaying capability doesn't count as offensive weaponry. If it does, I might rethink that allocation.
yes, basically if it's something that makes a hole in one of our springsharp designs, or launches something that does,
it is most likely to be considered "armament" for AUX purposes.
Depth charges are a bit of an exception and are allowed...but make holes in things from a table.
Now, that doesn't mean you can't have several mines, and remember the limit is 2% of
normal.
In this case that's ~11 tons. 40 mines is a little extra.
Sweeping gear - there's no set standard, I think most are using 25t as the default for misc weight of unknown "real" amount. One of those fuzzy areas.
No worries. I made some tweaks to the design - knocking down the size somewhat while flipping it back to a mil-spec costing.
The hydrophone package went from enhanced to basic, given that it's more of a secondary role anyway.
Decided that maybe coal was a better choice for the design: If and when she hits a mine and sinks, the survivors' chances of remaining survivors is probably better without a big pool of flammable oil surrounding the wreck.
There remains some excess hull strength for survivability purposes.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922
Displacement:
349 t light; 360 t standard; 405 t normal; 441 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(163.52 ft / 156.82 ft) x 26.25 ft x (6.89 / 7.35 ft)
(49.84 m / 47.80 m) x 8.00 m x (2.10 / 2.24 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1922 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1922 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
2 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17 lbs / 8 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,609 shp / 1,200 Kw = 16.78 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 82 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
44 - 58
Cost:
£0.058 million / $0.234 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 0.8 %
- Guns: 3 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 2 tons, 0.5 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 59 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 175 tons, 43.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 56 tons, 13.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 109 tons, 26.9 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 82 tons
- Above deck: 2 tons
Fittings:
-5 t: Basic hydrophone package (BW)
-20 t: Hull bracing (BW)
-25 t: Sweeping gear (FD)
-40 t: Mines (FD)
-10 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-1 t: 1918 fire control, such as it is (AD)
-8 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,251 lbs / 567 Kg = 97.2 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 10.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.96
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.52 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 26
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.36 ft / 5.90 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Average freeboard: 11.92 ft / 3.63 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.0 %
Waterplane Area: 2,742 Square feet or 255 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 170 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 166 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 8.07
- Overall: 1.10
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
A big-ticket refurbishment for the Nieugiety-class battleships. Obviously cheaper options are available, ranging from a refit with just new light guns and fire control to a more sparse refurbishment that changes the bunkerage but leaves the engines and skips the armor adjustments.
Note for reference purposes this is basically a clone of the Helgoland class dreadnoughts.
Basic refurbishment costs (from original light displacement): $4.06 and 0 BP
Armament:
-Replacement of 130/75/50/10mm batteries and their armor: $0.569 and 0.339 BP
Armor:
-Replacement of 300mm turret faces (only): $0.392 and 0.392 BP
-Laminate 40mm over existing deck armor: $1.051 and 1.051 BP
-Add 50mm armored bulges: $0.618 and 0.618 BP
New miscellaneous weight (new FC, damage control): $0.426 and 0.426 BP
Propulsion:
-Change bunkerage to all-oil: $1.099 and 0 BP
-Machinery replacement: $3.274 and 1.637 BP
Total cost: $11.49 and 4.463 BP
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1905 (Engine 1922)
Displacement:
22,500 t light; 23,635 t standard; 24,855 t normal; 25,831 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(508.53 ft / 508.53 ft) x 91.86 ft (Bulges 98.43 ft) x (26.74 / 27.69 ft)
(155.00 m / 155.00 m) x 28.00 m (Bulges 30.00 m) x (8.15 / 8.44 m)
Armament:
12 - 11.81" / 300 mm 45.0 cal guns - 830.83lbs / 376.86kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,279 lbs / 5,116 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 330.54 ft / 100.75 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 177.95 ft / 54.24 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 330.54 ft / 100.75 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Hull Bulges:
1.97" / 50 mm 330.54 ft / 100.75 m 25.66 ft / 7.82 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: Note, 40mm laminated over original decks
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 2.76" / 70 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 7.87" / 200 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 48,258 shp / 36,000 Kw = 22.90 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,197 tons
Complement:
989 - 1,286
Cost:
£2.010 million / $8.041 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,010 tons, 8.1 %
- Guns: 2,010 tons, 8.1 %
Armour: 9,628 tons, 38.7 %
- Belts: 3,531 tons, 14.2 %
- Bulges: 618 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 2,560 tons, 10.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,558 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Towers: 361 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 1,637 tons, 6.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,247 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,355 tons, 9.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 978 tons, 3.9 %
- Hull below water: 163 tons
- Hull above water: 113 tons
- On freeboard deck: 452 tons
- Above deck: 250 tons
Fittings:
-226 t: Damage control gear (BW/AW)
-50 t: Torpedo flats (closed up but in place)
-100 t: Command facilities (FD)
-352 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-200 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,548 lbs / 20,207 Kg = 54.1 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.652
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.39 ft / 6.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.7 %
Waterplane Area: 35,787 Square feet or 3,325 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 877 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 2.31
- Overall: 1.10
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Warning: Date too early for anti-air gun - 4th battery
This proposal for an aircraft-carrying cruiser was rejected by senior naval personnel on the grounds that it was too expensive and ambitious for such a new concept. They may also have thought it was stupid, but if so, they had the courtesy not to say so out loud.
The ship would have had 1.5 hangers, though the amidships portions of each would be reduced to narrow passageways on either beam by the 130mm shell rooms and exhaust ventilation. These items, like the guns, funnel, and superstructure above them, were all to be mounted on the centreline. This would have provided good sightlines for navigation and naval gunfire but probably quite bad outcomes on landing deck operations.
The hangers would have elevators fore and aft, and the upper hanger would also open up to the flying-off deck forward. Twenty aircraft would be carried - a mix of fighters and bomber/recce types.
The ship would've have protection, armament, and propulsion akin to modern light cruisers, in keeping with the notional cruiser-y role.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922
Displacement:
10,961 t light; 11,273 t standard; 12,344 t normal; 13,201 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(555.61 ft / 544.62 ft) x 65.62 ft x (21.98 / 23.18 ft)
(169.35 m / 166.00 m) x 20.00 m x (6.70 / 7.07 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 double raised mount aft
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 467 lbs / 212 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 91,153 shp / 68,000 Kw = 30.90 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,929 tons
Complement:
585 - 761
Cost:
£2.340 million / $9.361 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 121 tons, 1.0 %
- Guns: 121 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 950 tons, 7.7 %
- Belts: 527 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 32 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 391 tons, 3.2 %
Machinery: 3,092 tons, 25.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,026 tons, 40.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,383 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,772 tons, 14.4 %
- Hull below water: 800 tons
- Hull above water: 800 tons
- On freeboard deck: 72 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Fittings:
-1,600 t: Capacity for 20 A/C [Flight-deck cruiser build] (BW/AW)
-13 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-134 t: Weight reserve (AD/FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,423 lbs / 9,717 Kg = 319.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.558
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.30 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 41.34 ft / 12.60 m, 41.34 ft / 12.60 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Average freeboard: 32.28 ft / 9.84 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 308.3 %
Waterplane Area: 24,940 Square feet or 2,317 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 477 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 5.67
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Note:
Waterplane area w/two hangers allows 40 A/C
Flight-deck cruiser build halves to 20 A/C
Early spitballing for a future monitor to carry a two-gun 450mm/45 gun. Gives the Union and I a general sense of the size of the turret, and would let the Union work out just how severe the blast effects are quite early in the construction of subsequent battleships or armored cruisers.
I don't actually have a 450mm gun in service or development at this point, mind you. The 1925 laydown supposes I design one with the 1915 gun tech in 1923-4. If I were to hold off for the 1920 tech, the ship would be delayed a couple years and the shell could end up being heavier than what is shown here.
The monitor would have facilities for a spotter floatplane right aft, with the secondaries flanking the hanger for it. Misc. weight above deck is fire control, wireless, flag, and night-fighting; the ship would be notionally serving in a station-command role, much as existing monitors have been deployed lately.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
13,282 t light; 14,000 t standard; 14,451 t normal; 14,811 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(403.83 ft / 393.70 ft) x 101.71 ft x (22.97 / 23.42 ft)
(123.09 m / 120.00 m) x 31.00 m x (7.00 / 7.14 m)
Armament:
2 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,086.47lbs / 1,400.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1925 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,837 lbs / 3,101 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 14.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 21.10 ft / 6.43 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 82.02 ft / 25.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 11.8" / 300 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 8,043 shp / 6,000 Kw = 15.41 kts
Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 812 tons
Complement:
658 - 856
Cost:
£3.539 million / $14.157 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,229 tons, 8.5 %
- Guns: 1,229 tons, 8.5 %
Armour: 5,385 tons, 37.3 %
- Belts: 1,574 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 393 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 1,236 tons, 8.6 %
- Armour Deck: 2,006 tons, 13.9 %
- Conning Tower: 176 tons, 1.2 %
Machinery: 261 tons, 1.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,822 tons, 40.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,169 tons, 8.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 584 tons, 4.0 %
- Hull below water: 144 tons
- On freeboard deck: 140 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,101 lbs / 18,643 Kg = 14.8 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 10.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 9.6 ft / 2.9 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.553
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.87 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.06 ft / 6.42 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 55.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.8 %
Waterplane Area: 27,945 Square feet or 2,596 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 849 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.85
- Longitudinal: 4.19
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Per the 23 Feb 22 news item, the experimental aircraft carrier Labedz would embark up to six fighters in a local air-defence role. Based on the Rybolow class korsarz, also pictured in the illustration below, the ship would be relatively easily refurbished to take on a new role as a korsarz or other light, faster combatant once it becomes obsolete as an aircraft carrier.
Which might be sooner than expected once the Union tries to land aircraft on the landing deck, but who knows? Maybe they'll instead raze the superstructure and put in a full-length flight deck once they have the next carrier tech figure out. The world is their oyster.
The assumption is that the hanger can handle two fighters with folded wings aft of the lift, and two pairs of fighters forward of the lift, where the ship's beam nears its widest. Naturally, I've costed the airgroup with the logic that this is a conversion, more or less.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922
Displacement:
4,411 t light; 4,549 t standard; 4,880 t normal; 5,145 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491.08 ft / 482.28 ft) x 45.93 ft x (15.42 / 16.05 ft)
(149.68 m / 147.00 m) x 14.00 m x (4.70 / 4.89 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 286 lbs / 130 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,577 shp / 34,000 Kw = 30.07 kts
Range 8,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 596 tons
Complement:
291 - 379
Cost:
£1.084 million / $4.336 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 76 tons, 1.6 %
- Guns: 76 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 35 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 35 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,546 tons, 31.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,939 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 469 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 815 tons, 16.7 %
- Hull below water: 360 tons
- Hull above water: 360 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Fittings:
-720 t: 6 wheeled, single-seat aircraft (costed as conversion): BW/AW
-8 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Secondary S/R wireless (AD)
-20 t: Air operations centre (FD)
-32 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,462 lbs / 2,024 Kg = 66.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Average freeboard: 22.08 ft / 6.73 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 230.0 %
Waterplane Area: 14,759 Square feet or 1,371 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 314 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.78
- Longitudinal: 3.24
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Carrier Notes:
-Waterplane area 1,371 m2 allows 21 A/C, halved if using flight-deck cruiser rules to 10. This only carries 6.
I like that kind of conversion.
;)
An Aztec-style razee for trade defence and/or battleline scouting. It might be overkill, of course.
I don't current have a 2-gun 300mm gun, but can change that in time for 1923.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
17,916 t light; 18,878 t standard; 20,395 t normal; 21,609 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(727.61 ft / 711.94 ft) x 75.46 ft x (26.57 / 27.76 ft)
(221.78 m / 217.00 m) x 23.00 m x (8.10 / 8.46 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.81" / 300 mm 45.0 cal guns - 830.84lbs / 376.86kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,981 lbs / 2,713 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 462.76 ft / 141.05 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 120,644 shp / 90,001 Kw = 31.86 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,730 tons
Complement:
853 - 1,109
Cost:
£5.071 million / $20.284 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,347 tons, 6.6 %
- Guns: 1,347 tons, 6.6 %
Armour: 4,817 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 1,846 tons, 9.0 %
- Armament: 964 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,912 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Tower: 95 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,032 tons, 19.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,280 tons, 35.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,479 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 440 tons, 2.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 140 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,479 lbs / 10,650 Kg = 28.5 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.06 ft / 6.42 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.8 %
Waterplane Area: 35,794 Square feet or 3,325 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 698 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
I mean, I like them.
Though I've shifted from 6x11in to 9x9in with the newest class. I'm banking on the Rate of Fire change helping. Typically guns 10in and above have a rate of fire dropoff when compared to guns 8-10in.
Options for the next oiler program:
9,000 t light, 18 knots, 6080 t cargo
9,000 t light, 24 knots, 5230 t cargo
15,000 t light, 18 knots, 10500 t cargo
15,000 t light, 24 knots, 9550 t cargo
There is not a huge qualitative difference between the slow variants; the 15,000 t slow oiler is 67% larger and carries 72% more cargo. Yippy skippy.
The difference shows a big more in the faster variant, where the big ship carries 82% more cargo. I assume this is a matter of the larger hull being more favorable to the higher speed.
So the question then becomes what do I want out of the oiler.
On the one hand, the small, slow oiler is perfectly suitable for a World Cruise scenario where the Union is operating outside the Atlantic and its chain of bases. So is the big, slow oiler but there's not a hugely compelling reason to have a big, slow oiler when a small, slow oiler does almost the same job and is less eggs in the basket and has easier drydocking requirements.
On the other hand, the fast variants are better suited to support Union squadrons running blockades around the British Isles. With UNREP not far away, it's a potentially valuable asset as a means to avoid Roman or Norse fleets that might seek to hem in the Union navy during a war. In this case, there is some argument for the increased efficiency of the big hull, but also the risk of it being a higher profile and extremely flammable target.
Option 1, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Is it really necessary to have fast oilers to operate with cruisers ?
=> 9000t-18kts
For Vilnius, I'd say no. Aztec fast oilers exist primarily because when they were designed, running from Roman task forces was something in the cards.
I'd say that rather than a high top speed, you want a high cruise speed. A 14 or even 16kt cruise would allow your oiler to cover a lot of distance from a port with fuel to a fleet at sea. Top speed is really irrelevant unless you're concerned about the oiler being directly hunted due to not having the ships to escort her.
And the medium oiler in question. As opposed to the recent 3,000 t oiler, this one does not feature an electric drive. On the other hand, it carries much more oil, both for itself and for its clients.
It's one of the first designs to roll out the new 15mm/90cal machine-gun for local defensive functions, which is exciting.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
8,992 t light; 9,234 t standard; 10,683 t normal; 11,842 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(419.60 ft / 410.11 ft) x 65.62 ft x (25.26 / 27.42 ft)
(127.89 m / 125.00 m) x 20.00 m x (7.70 / 8.36 m)
Armament:
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mount, 1923 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck centre
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 197 lbs / 89 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,724 shp / 8,000 Kw = 17.79 kts
Range 26,300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,608 tons
Complement:
525 - 683
Cost:
£1.108 million / $4.433 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 48 tons, 0.5 %
- Guns: 48 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 12 tons, 0.1 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 358 tons, 3.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,321 tons, 21.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,691 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6,252 tons, 58.5 %
- Hull below water: 4,000 tons
- Hull above water: 1,770 tons
- On freeboard deck: 400 tons
- Above deck: 82 tons
Fittings:
-5 t: 1918 Fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-20 t: Accommodation for 10 passengers (AD)
-32 t: Weight reserve/cargo/mail (AD)
-400 t: Oil handling equipment (FD)
-5,770 t: Fuel oil (AW/BW)
-
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,924 lbs / 7,223 Kg = 237.5 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.50
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.562
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 10.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 45.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 15.39 ft / 4.69 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.8 %
Waterplane Area: 18,780 Square feet or 1,745 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 150 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 403 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.83
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
10000 nm @ 15 knots
That is one nice looking ship... *quietly saves picture for future reference...*
Wishful thinking, but something I'd like to see mysteriously arrive in the river back beyond my farm right about now:
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
11 t light; 11 t standard; 11 t normal; 12 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(35.22 ft / 32.81 ft) x 9.84 ft x (1.64 / 1.67 ft)
(10.74 m / 10.00 m) x 3.00 m x (0.50 / 0.51 m)
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 1 shaft, 26 shp / 20 Kw = 8.30 kts
Range 1,000nm at 5.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 tons
Complement:
3 - 4
Cost:
£0.001 million / $0.006 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1 tons, 7.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 tons, 52.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 tons, 4.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 35.2 %
- Hull below water: 1 tons
- Hull above water: 1 tons
- On freeboard deck: 1 tons
- Above deck: 1 tons
Fittings:
-1 t: Electric drive (BW)
-1 t: 500m extremely heavy duty extension cord, spool, and crane (AW)
-1 t: Shower (FD)
-1 t: Wi-fi booster tower (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
73 lbs / 33 Kg = 0.7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 8.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.97
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.750 / 0.752
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 5.73 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.31 ft / 0.40 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Average freeboard: 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 45.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.1 %
Waterplane Area: 270 Square feet or 25 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 197 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 10 lbs/sq ft or 47 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.64
- Longitudinal: 75.20
- Overall: 1.03
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily
Yay, I can play around in SS again.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
31,219 t light; 32,753 t standard; 34,845 t normal; 36,518 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(770.86 ft / 754.59 ft) x 98.43 ft x (29.86 / 30.99 ft)
(234.96 m / 230.00 m) x 30.00 m x (9.10 / 9.44 m)
Armament:
6 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,171 lbs / 5,974 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 498.69 ft / 152.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 490.49 ft / 149.50 m 27.10 ft / 8.26 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 176,944 shp / 132,000 Kw = 32.05 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,765 tons
Complement:
1,274 - 1,657
Cost:
£9.117 million / $36.467 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,676 tons, 7.7 %
- Guns: 2,676 tons, 7.7 %
Armour: 9,292 tons, 26.7 %
- Belts: 2,717 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 968 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 1,705 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 3,721 tons, 10.7 %
- Conning Tower: 181 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 5,914 tons, 17.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,687 tons, 36.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,626 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 650 tons, 1.9 %
- Above deck: 650 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,063 lbs / 19,079 Kg = 21.5 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.555
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.17 ft / 9.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178.0 %
Waterplane Area: 51,833 Square feet or 4,815 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 187 lbs/sq ft or 914 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.39
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Alternate take on the razee: Less big guns, more speed.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
17,997 t light; 18,791 t standard; 20,301 t normal; 21,510 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(724.69 ft / 708.66 ft) x 75.46 ft x (26.57 / 27.76 ft)
(220.88 m / 216.00 m) x 23.00 m x (8.10 / 8.46 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.51lbs / 306.40kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck centre
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
6 x Single mounts on side ends, majority aft
6 raised mounts
6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,050 lbs / 2,291 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 460.63 ft / 140.40 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 139,411 shp / 104,000 Kw = 33.04 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,719 tons
Complement:
849 - 1,105
Cost:
£5.082 million / $20.329 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,160 tons, 5.7 %
- Guns: 1,160 tons, 5.7 %
Armour: 4,571 tons, 22.5 %
- Belts: 1,838 tons, 9.1 %
- Armament: 735 tons, 3.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,904 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Tower: 95 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,659 tons, 23.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,047 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,304 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 560 tons, 2.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 260 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,175 lbs / 10,058 Kg = 33.1 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.39 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.51 ft / 9.30 m, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m
- Forward deck: 23.00 %, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m
- Aft deck: 42.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.50 ft / 6.55 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.9 %
Waterplane Area: 35,629 Square feet or 3,310 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 670 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Welcome back !
On the one Two up, the TDS beam is 26, the overall beam 30,
which means only a 2m deep TDS on either side.
The second one... well no TDS, no depth issues !
On belt sloping : " Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)"
SS's weird, and makes you put -16 if you want it inclined out, rather than in.
I keep mucking it up, and in any battles, I will presume the belt is inclined
in the direction most useful :)
Interesting to view these and consider the Asawaran and Daphae
classes I've been tinkering with. as follow ups to the Zemakas.
Both more the 2nd size range, but a very different approach.
The 400mm seems to be relying on it's armored deck and speed,
but IMHO with a 30000+ ship, debatable.
Consider substantial periods of poor weather,
nightime, then factor in the average
visibility range in the North Sea was ~12000m,
and that's where the Norse/Wilno/Rome play.
Even if you can pick the range, the immune space
may be very limited or non existent*, and be rather
far out... where with 6 guns and 1920s FC
hitting will be more difficult.
*navweaps for the 1918 US 14/45 mk 8, no immune zone.
The 40cm ship is more a flight of fancy than anything serious at this point. I was envisioning it more as something to hang out in the Caribbean than a North Sea presence.
Yeah, I have a consistent problem with the inclined belt thing - it's X degrees in the good direction, not the bad direction.
Well, one of them is still a good direction, if you're sitting at 500m.......
I'll add a couple of tonnes for some machinery to adjust the inclination of the belt as circumstances dictate.
QuoteI'll add a couple of tonnes for some machinery to adjust the inclination of the belt as circumstances dictate.
Ballasting ?
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on May 31, 2022, 09:39:29 AM
I'll add a couple of tonnes for some machinery to adjust the inclination of the belt as circumstances dictate.
Ah yes, like venetian blinds, just waterline vents you can open or *glub glub* close
I don't think I've posted the T-class torpedo-boats, but if I have, pretend otherwise.
It's not spectacular. It does the main things the Union wants, which is to shoot four 130mm guns, have a long-range wireless, and keep up with fast capital ships for a while.
Appearance-wise it's a bit of a mash-up between the preceding S-class and the Q-class sloops.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
1,883 t light; 1,971 t standard; 2,250 t normal; 2,473 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(388.70 ft / 377.30 ft) x 36.09 ft x (14.11 / 15.03 ft)
(118.48 m / 115.00 m) x 11.00 m x (4.30 / 4.58 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on sides, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 302 lbs / 137 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,214 shp / 30,000 Kw = 32.25 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts (13,200 factoring in the geared drive bonus)
Bunker at max displacement = 502 tons
Complement:
163 - 212
Cost:
£0.731 million / $2.924 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 79 tons, 3.5 %
- Guns: 79 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 32 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 28 tons, 1.2 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,129 tons, 50.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 534 tons, 23.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 367 tons, 16.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 4.9 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Fittings:
-8 t: 1918 Fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-24 t: 2x3 21" TT (FD)
-15 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-13 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
538 lbs / 244 Kg = 8.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Forward deck: 26.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Aft deck: 39.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.5 %
Waterplane Area: 8,432 Square feet or 783 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 176 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 0.55
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
The Union's movin' on up to a newer, larger type of light cruiser.
The class uses a new two-gun 150mm turret and barbette; four are embarked. Also new are quadruple torpedo carriage for extra keel-breaking opportunities. A single floatplane is embarked, without permanent hanger - the designers weren't quite sure how to fit one in on a ship this size just yet.
Consideration was given towards building a slightly less expensive ship with ~30 or 31 knots instead of 32, but the accountants were convinced that the incremental cost of building in the additional speed now was actually less than installing new machinery in ten or fifteen years. Not that the accountants were assured of approving the latter in the first place, mind you.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
7,911 t light; 8,228 t standard; 9,142 t normal; 9,873 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(592.02 ft / 577.43 ft) x 57.74 ft x (21.33 / 22.53 ft)
(180.45 m / 176.00 m) x 17.60 m x (6.50 / 6.87 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 954 lbs / 433 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 390.42 ft / 119.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 79,089 shp / 59,000 Kw = 32.03 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,646 tons
Complement:
466 - 607
Cost:
£2.128 million / $8.513 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 260 tons, 2.8 %
- Guns: 260 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 1,566 tons, 17.1 %
- Belts: 918 tons, 10.0 %
- Armament: 225 tons, 2.5 %
- Armour Deck: 390 tons, 4.3 %
- Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,643 tons, 28.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,161 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,231 tons, 13.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 280 tons, 3.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 130 tons
- Above deck: 150 tons
Fittings:
-26 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-50 t: Command facilities (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-30 t : Armed floatplane and catapult (no permanent hanger) (FD)
-32 t: 2x4 530mm torpedos (no reloads) (FD)
-92 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,703 lbs / 4,401 Kg = 94.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.57 ft / 8.10 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 18.11 ft / 5.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.4 %
Waterplane Area: 21,268 Square feet or 1,976 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 465 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Correction to the torpedo-boat posted above.
-AA gun placement fixed.
-Machine gun placement lowered.
-Conning Tower armor deleted
-Misc. Weight increased (MOAR TORPEDOZ)
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
1,884 t light; 1,971 t standard; 2,250 t normal; 2,473 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(388.70 ft / 377.30 ft) x 36.09 ft x (14.11 / 15.03 ft)
(118.48 m / 115.00 m) x 11.00 m x (4.30 / 4.58 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 302 lbs / 137 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,214 shp / 30,000 Kw = 32.25 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 502 tons
Complement:
163 - 212
Cost:
£0.731 million / $2.924 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 79 tons, 3.5 %
- Guns: 79 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 28 tons, 1.2 %
- Armament: 28 tons, 1.2 %
Machinery: 1,129 tons, 50.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 533 tons, 23.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 367 tons, 16.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 115 tons, 5.1 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 55 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Fittings:
-8 t: 1918 Fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-32 t: 2x4 21" TT (FD)
-15 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-10 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
538 lbs / 244 Kg = 8.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Forward deck: 26.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Aft deck: 39.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.5 %
Waterplane Area: 8,432 Square feet or 783 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 0.55
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
They are a little larger than those in the Byzantium PLAN.
LD 1923 -1500t / 1973t - 110mx10.8m
4x120 + 1x76.2AA + 4x47 + 8TTx533HW + 32 minen.
32kts - 7500nm/12kts (trials speed 32.5kts)
Broadside: 108 kg
Survivability: 225 Kg
"The ship has a slow and easy roll, a good stable firing platform"
Proportions are related.
;)
Kinda curious as to why you're putting LR radio on your destroyers.
Not a bad thing, just destroyers are tight on weight anyhow.
Also, heavy gun armor on those mounts....except the 'other' part.
I kinda had to make up rules for splinter penetration, and I based them off of what I remembered reading about 5" gun armor thickness on different USN ships being tied to shell splinters for that main gun.
So came up with the 1/6. But the 'other' armor on the mounts is 20mm, which would shield vs. 120mm...and the Romans field 140mm.
Reading Friedman's destroyers, one of the observations he makes was that since the US lacked scout cruisers, they planned on using their destroyers in that role.
To do that, they had to rig the aerials, which required masts to get them high, and were heavy.
A reasonable analogy for 25t LR Radios...it's not the actual radio set, it's the berthing, the spare parts, the aerials etc.
For me, I'm kinda expecting my DDs to operate near my fleet, so I haven't worried greatly about the lack of LR radio.
I figure there's a cruiser to do it.
Destroyers of that size certainly are tight, but I feel they're large enough that I can stick one in there and not have to worry about keeping a cruiser in close proximity for comms purposes.
Good point about the gun protection. It'll cost me 6 ton to bump the "other" from 20 to 25mm, so I might take that out of the ASW munition inventory. Or I might not.
The armored cruiser Straznik, as she'll appear when laid down.
I'm quoting the original springsharp below, but expect the final design (to be posted in the encyclopedia later) will swap out the 10mm MG for 15mm MG and other minor changes, we'll see.
Aviation facilities include a single gunpowder catapult and two single-aircraft hangers flanking the aft funnel. Two armed floatplanes embarked.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on April 21, 2022, 12:40:55 PM
An Aztec-style razee for trade defence and/or battleline scouting. It might be overkill, of course.
I don't current have a 2-gun 300mm gun, but can change that in time for 1923.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
17,916 t light; 18,878 t standard; 20,395 t normal; 21,609 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(727.61 ft / 711.94 ft) x 75.46 ft x (26.57 / 27.76 ft)
(221.78 m / 217.00 m) x 23.00 m x (8.10 / 8.46 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.81" / 300 mm 45.0 cal guns - 830.84lbs / 376.86kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1923 Model
6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,981 lbs / 2,713 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 462.76 ft / 141.05 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 120,644 shp / 90,001 Kw = 31.86 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,730 tons
Complement:
853 - 1,109
Cost:
£5.071 million / $20.284 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,347 tons, 6.6 %
- Guns: 1,347 tons, 6.6 %
Armour: 4,817 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 1,846 tons, 9.0 %
- Armament: 964 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,912 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Tower: 95 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,032 tons, 19.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,280 tons, 35.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,479 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 440 tons, 2.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 140 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,479 lbs / 10,650 Kg = 28.5 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.06 ft / 6.42 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.8 %
Waterplane Area: 35,794 Square feet or 3,325 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 698 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Question : The multiple armor decks - do you have a 50mm main deck and 25mm splinter ...or upper
General question : How far outsloped were external belts?
I was tinkering with a SS and putting a -15 on it and started wondering.
This one is 16...is 20 ok ?
anyone know what the reasonable range was ?
If they are following the contour of the hull, there must be some tradeoffs or limitations.
Which would be in part why they started putting them internally.
General observation : It's interesting to see these ships.
The Parthian Zemaka class wasn't a response to the Aztec, I don't believe the Aztec
was even afloat, they were more intended for Byzantine/Japanese vessels.
Yet similar size range and speed - though I have 8x 255 vs 6x 300.
It's supposed to be a single armored deck, which I failed to click on apparently.
My memory says the Iowas were about 18 degrees, but it's a good question and I'll go back to check on historical practice.
A coastal defence torpedo-boat in the 500 t range.
Not especially fast or long-legged, but perhaps adequate for the North Erican seaboard and thereabouts.
Miscellaneous weight would include a basic hydrophone, either 2 x 4t 21" or 3 x 3t 21" torpedoes, and a few depth charges.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
497 t light; 513 t standard; 543 t normal; 568 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(233.30 ft / 223.10 ft) x 21.65 ft x (9.84 / 10.13 ft)
(71.11 m / 68.00 m) x 6.60 m x (3.00 / 3.09 m)
Armament:
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 30 lbs / 14 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 17,426 shp / 13,000 Kw = 30.51 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 55 tons
Complement:
56 - 73
Cost:
£0.173 million / $0.692 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 1.1 %
- Guns: 6 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 3 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 289 tons, 53.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 177 tons, 32.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 46 tons, 8.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 22 tons, 4.0 %
- Hull below water: 5 tons
- On freeboard deck: 16 tons
- Above deck: 1 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
155 lbs / 70 Kg = 12.0 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.406
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.30 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.94 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
- Forward deck: 22.00 %, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
- Aft deck: 43.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 11.75 ft / 3.58 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.9 %
Waterplane Area: 2,974 Square feet or 276 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 45 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 116 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 4.75
- Overall: 0.62
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Trial speed 32.96 (bonus 2.45)
And a smaller 250 t-ish boat that could be built and maintained with the Union's 50m drydock suite. On the upside, it's a good seaboat (not to be confused with Good Seaboat) for its size and it can haul around a few big fish. On the downside, the type is definitely limited by its top speed and there's no capacity for ASW.
But you do get a sketch.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
248 t light; 255 t standard; 275 t normal; 292 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(163.93 ft / 155.51 ft) x 15.75 ft x (9.84 / 10.23 ft)
(49.97 m / 47.40 m) x 4.80 m x (3.00 / 3.12 m)
Armament:
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
Weight of broadside 8 lbs / 4 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 8,043 shp / 6,000 Kw = 26.67 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 37 tons
Complement:
33 - 43
Cost:
£0.085 million / $0.342 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0.6 %
- Guns: 2 tons, 0.6 %
Armour: 2 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 145 tons, 52.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 86 tons, 31.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 28 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 13 tons, 4.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 12 tons
- Above deck: 1 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
77 lbs / 35 Kg = 20.2 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.408
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 74 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 14.11 ft / 4.30 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 9.47 ft / 2.89 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.3 %
Waterplane Area: 1,508 Square feet or 140 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 49 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 92 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 8.08
- Overall: 0.66
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Trial speed 31.08 (bonus 4.41)
Just fooling around with a river monitor carrying one of the new 2-gun 150/45mm turrets. It would certainly be overkill against most or all river craft, but potentially useful against fortifications.
If there happen to be fortifications on that river.
Notionally the ship resembles a much smaller Attakulla, with that weird raised foredeck that works so much better than a double-superfiring turret as a means of matching up shallow draft and sufficient numbers of decks to accommodate the turret.
Forward of the foredeck, technically on the forecastle, would be a couple of 50mm RF guns.
Amidships we'd have a small multi-level bridge structure with fire control, searchlights, and long-range wireless. Aft we'd have a hanger and deckspace for an armed floatplane to spot targets and shot-fall.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
979 t light; 1,023 t standard; 1,044 t normal; 1,060 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(228.98 ft / 223.10 ft) x 42.65 ft x (5.91 / 5.99 ft)
(69.79 m / 68.00 m) x 13.00 m x (1.80 / 1.82 m)
Armament:
2 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1923 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 254 lbs / 115 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 144.36 ft / 44.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 0.79" / 20 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 435 shp / 325 Kw = 10.06 kts
Range 1,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 37 tons
Complement:
91 - 119
Cost:
£0.170 million / $0.679 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 68 tons, 6.5 %
- Guns: 68 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 225 tons, 21.6 %
- Belts: 76 tons, 7.3 %
- Armament: 57 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 90 tons, 8.6 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 15 tons, 1.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 572 tons, 54.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 65 tons, 6.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 99 tons, 9.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 57 tons
- Above deck: 42 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,592 lbs / 3,444 Kg = 73.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.62
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.652
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.94 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 28 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 12.01 ft / 3.66 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 26.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 193.9 %
Waterplane Area: 7,289 Square feet or 677 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 185 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 319 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 3.09
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Reminds me that I haven't built my own river patrol ship/boat yet.
The Union's northeastern frontier includes extensive waterways on rivers such as the Neva and lakes such as Ladoga. These freeze over in winter, which naturally brings waterborne activity to a stop for months each year.
However, there might be circumstances where one wants to enable river traffic early (or later) than the shipping season would normally allow. This might include freeing ships stuck in an early freeze or, in the event of a war with the Northern Kingdom or Golden Horde, eliminating the ability of ground forces to cross frozen rivers.
So the Union's going to build a few small armed/armored icebreakers for service in the northeast. Even if not dealing in militarily necessary activities, they can support civilian operations in the Baltic and inland northeast.
The armament is defensive, and mainly about fending off airplanes, infantry or cavalry.
The bow and stern are armored against heavy ice; the rest of the hull is strengthened against ice and small-arms fire, with the upper belt representing a proper box around the machinery and ammunition stowage.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
204 t light; 211 t standard; 215 t normal; 218 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(149.82 ft / 144.36 ft) x 26.25 ft x (3.61 / 3.65 ft)
(45.66 m / 44.00 m) x 8.00 m x (1.10 / 1.11 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8 lbs / 4 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 93.83 ft / 28.60 m 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 50.49 ft / 15.39 m 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Upper: 0.79" / 20 mm 32.81 ft / 10.00 m 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines:
0.79" / 20 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.79" / 20 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 470 shp / 350 Kw = 13.21 kts
Range 500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7 tons
Complement:
27 - 36
Cost:
£0.029 million / $0.116 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 1.0 %
- Guns: 2 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 78 tons, 36.1 %
- Belts: 41 tons, 19.2 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 5.5 %
- Armour Deck: 24 tons, 11.1 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 16 tons, 7.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 93 tons, 43.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 10 tons, 4.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 7.4 %
- Hull below water: 5 tons
- On freeboard deck: 7 tons
- Above deck: 4 tons
Fittings:
-4 t: Fire control, spotlights and stuff (AD)
-7 t: Weight reserve and/or deck cargo (FD)
-5 t: Diesel engines (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,291 lbs / 585 Kg = 338.4 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.552
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Average freeboard: 6.91 ft / 2.11 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 31.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.8 %
Waterplane Area: 2,644 Square feet or 246 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 164 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 136 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Definitely a useful ship.
;)
Thanks.
I was just thinking maybe I should add a couple for use in North America (Chesapeake Bay and thereabouts).
And an armored river gunboat to replace some of the Type 1895 class.
It's twice the displacement of the Type 1895, but has a far heavier armament, better protection, and better speed/range.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
174 t light; 184 t standard; 189 t normal; 192 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(148.98 ft / 144.36 ft) x 19.69 ft x (3.94 / 3.99 ft)
(45.41 m / 44.00 m) x 6.00 m x (1.20 / 1.22 m)
Armament:
3 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 43 lbs / 20 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 36.09 ft / 11.00 m 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 108.23 ft / 32.99 m 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
Main Belt covers 38 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines:
0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.59" / 15 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors, plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 335 shp / 250 Kw = 12.52 kts
Range 600nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7 tons
Complement:
25 - 33
Cost:
£0.029 million / $0.117 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 9 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 73 tons, 38.9 %
- Belts: 32 tons, 17.0 %
- Armament: 20 tons, 10.4 %
- Armour Deck: 21 tons, 11.3 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 11 tons, 5.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 69 tons, 36.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 15 tons, 7.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 11 tons, 5.8 %
- Hull below water: 4 tons
- On freeboard deck: 5 tons
- Above deck: 2 tons
Fittings:
-2 t: Fire control, such as it is, and a searchlight (AD)
-5 t: Weight reserve or deck space (FD)
-4 t: Diesel engines (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
675 lbs / 306 Kg = 52.4 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 10.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.590 / 0.592
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 4.27 ft / 1.30 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 4.27 ft / 1.30 m, 4.27 ft / 1.30 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.27 ft / 1.30 m, 4.27 ft / 1.30 m
- Average freeboard: 5.20 ft / 1.59 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.3 %
Waterplane Area: 2,059 Square feet or 191 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 146 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 133 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.09
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
The not-Parana and not-Paraguay rivers are important - nay, VITAL - transportation corridors in South Erika. While your typical ocean-going ships can't make the run up to not-Asuncion is, or will be, the not-Paraguay can still handle those with an eight foot draft. That allows for a fairly capable vessel to be built with that draft and the 100m capacity of regional drydocks in mind.
This riverine transport would be capable of carrying five hundred passengers and some cargo from Widoknagory (Montevideo) to Asuncion, or four times the passengers on a short day run. The ship itself is nothing fancy, although the design is fairly distinctly separated into operations, cargo, and passenger sections.
The ship is lightly armed for self-defence against land, water, or aircraft threats.
The class - at least two - will be built to civilian standards.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
2,436 t light; 2,492 t standard; 2,538 t normal; 2,575 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(325.59 ft / 318.24 ft) x 62.34 ft x (6.89 / 6.97 ft)
(99.24 m / 97.00 m) x 19.00 m x (2.10 / 2.13 m)
Armament:
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 34 lbs / 15 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,478 shp / 1,103 Kw = 12.21 kts
Range 1,200nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 83 tons
Complement:
178 - 232
Cost:
£0.274 million / $1.095 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7 tons, 0.3 %
- Guns: 7 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 13 tons, 0.5 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 49 tons, 1.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,032 tons, 40.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 102 tons, 4.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,334 tons, 52.6 %
- Hull below water: 215 tons
- Hull above water: 300 tons
- On freeboard deck: 494 tons
- Above deck: 325 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless
-1,000 t: Accommodation for 500 passengers (AD/FD/AW)
-94 t: Weight reserve/deck cargo (FD)
-200 t: Cargo (BW)
-15 t: Diesel motors (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,162 lbs / 6,878 Kg = 1,177.9 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.651
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 27 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Average freeboard: 12.40 ft / 3.78 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 30.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 217.2 %
Waterplane Area: 15,197 Square feet or 1,412 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 173 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 286 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.27
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Quite impressive. Reminds me that I need to build some of the Creek class Riverboats myself, now that I have the Drydock on the Missouri. Not as multi-role as yours, and not quite as vital as relations with Rome have softened substantially. But still useful.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on June 20, 2022, 05:39:27 AM
And a smaller 250 t-ish boat that could be built and maintained with the Union's 50m drydock suite. On the upside, it's a good seaboat (not to be confused with Good Seaboat) for its size and it can haul around a few big fish. On the downside, the type is definitely limited by its top speed and there's no capacity for ASW.
Decided to tackle the 250 t with a longer, shallower hull.
It would barely fit into a 60m drydock. Not that I have any - but some of my 50m docks could be expanded with fairly minimal effort if needed.
It's a pure anti-surface platform, no ASW capability at all. The question is what to do with the torpedo selection - two 3t 21" or three 2 t 18"? There are arguments for either.
I think I'd still lean toward half the number of 500t boats instead, but it's fun to play around.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
250 t light; 260 t standard; 287 t normal; 309 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(196.73 ft / 191.60 ft) x 17.39 ft x (7.55 / 7.91 ft)
(59.96 m / 58.40 m) x 5.30 m x (2.30 / 2.41 m)
Armament:
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 200 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on sides, aft deck forward
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 30 lbs / 14 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 7,507 shp / 5,600 Kw = 27.10 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 49 tons
Complement:
34 - 45
Cost:
£0.090 million / $0.359 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 2.1 %
- Guns: 6 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 3 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 147 tons, 51.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 85 tons, 29.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 38 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 9 tons, 3.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 7 tons
- Above deck: 2 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
85 lbs / 38 Kg = 6.6 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.410
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.02 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.97 ft / 0.60 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 26.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 26.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Aft deck: 33.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 8.85 ft / 2.70 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95.4 %
Waterplane Area: 2,051 Square feet or 191 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 54 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 88 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.17
- Overall: 0.60
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Trial speed 31.36
Bonus 4.26
River transportation in Orimirilandia (Nigeria et al) is not so easy as it is over in South Erica. Seasonal variations are more pronounced, and river depths generally shallower.
Nonetheless, it is possible for part of the year to run ships of up to ~2m draft to the town of Jebba, which is something like 500 miles upriver from the mouth of the Orimiri/Niger, which is most of the way to the border with the Berbers. There's a couple of long navigable stretches upriver from there, but those are strictly Berber waters and Not My Problem. Although if they want to talk about building a lock system at the rapids, we could talk.
Building a ship with a 1.2 m draft buys less capability, but definitely improves the odds that it can run up to Jebba during drier seasons. The need for anti-aircraft guns is questionable - I have no idea what value the Berbers assign to them - but the deck space is available. The engines are diesel given the region's considerable and already fairly developed petroleum reserves.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
1,539 t light; 1,575 t standard; 1,613 t normal; 1,643 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(325.94 ft / 318.24 ft) x 63.98 ft x (4.27 / 4.33 ft)
(99.35 m / 97.00 m) x 19.50 m x (1.30 / 1.32 m)
Armament:
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16 lbs / 7 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,234 shp / 920 Kw = 12.00 kts
Range 1,200nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 68 tons
Complement:
126 - 165
Cost:
£0.177 million / $0.706 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 14 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 14 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 41 tons, 2.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 915 tons, 56.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 73 tons, 4.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 565 tons, 35.0 %
- Hull below water: 13 tons
- Hull above water: 260 tons
- On freeboard deck: 267 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless
-500 t: Accommodation for 250 passengers (1,000 on a short-term run)
-27 t: Deck cargo and weight reserve
-13 t: Diesel engines
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,867 lbs / 6,290 Kg = 3,635.9 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 5.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.652
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 23 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 80
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 12.13 ft / 3.70 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 29.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 278.5 %
Waterplane Area: 15,597 Square feet or 1,449 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 240 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 53 lbs/sq ft or 258 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
A simple refurbishment of the Grenadjar class ACs would:
-Upgrade the 130mm secondary to QF guns, still in hull casemates
-Replace the 50mm battery with a few 100mm AA guns
-Add a few heavy machine guns for local security
-Put in new fire control
-Change the bunkerage over to oil-firing
Total cost would be $4.73 and 0.249 BP.
It doesn't radically improve the ship, but it does mean I can reasonably assign these to basic trade defence/secondary roles for the five to seven years before their replacements come along. They'd still be a significant challenge for any protected/light/auxiliary cruiser or peer armored cruiser that came looking for trouble.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1902
Displacement:
13,914 t light; 14,481 t standard; 16,182 t normal; 17,543 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(492.13 ft / 492.13 ft) x 72.18 ft x (26.57 / 28.41 ft)
(150.00 m / 150.00 m) x 22.00 m x (8.10 / 8.66 m)
Armament:
8 - 7.87" / 200 mm 45.0 cal guns - 246.19lbs / 111.67kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,905 lbs / 1,318 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 131.20 ft / 39.99 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 319.88 ft / 97.50 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 5.12" / 130 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32,172 ihp / 24,000 Kw = 22.42 kts
Range 13,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,062 tons
Complement:
716 - 932
Cost:
£1.337 million / $5.347 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 679 tons, 4.2 %
- Guns: 679 tons, 4.2 %
Armour: 3,964 tons, 24.5 %
- Belts: 1,815 tons, 11.2 %
- Armament: 947 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,094 tons, 6.8 %
- Conning Tower: 109 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,431 tons, 27.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,439 tons, 27.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,268 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 401 tons, 2.5 %
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 351 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,755 lbs / 7,600 Kg = 68.6 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.608
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.0 %
Waterplane Area: 25,979 Square feet or 2,414 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 596 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 1.96
- Overall: 1.10
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Warning: Date too early for anti-air gun - 3rd Battery okay look we've talked about this
The cost is reasonable for escort work.
Increasing speed seems difficult for this 20yo, 150m hull.
;)
I can get her up to 26 knots, but the costs go up as well.
QuoteI can get her up to 26 knots, but the costs go up as well.
Climb to 25.6 kts like Lucznik class to use these 4 AC together.
Just an idea.
;)
We've considered that angle before, and it bumps the cost up to around $11 and 4 BP, which seems a bit excessive for a broadside of six 8" and twenty-six knots.
This will do for now. I reckon the class will be replaced by more razee-style "armored cruisers" later in the 1920s.
Union designers, finding themselves with not a lot of pressing tasks at the moment, churn out a 1924 emergency light cruiser.
The basic assumption is that the ship has to be completed in a year in order to replace war losses. This limits light displacement to 3,000 tonnes. That also offers a convenient break-point in hull strength limits.
The end result can be built in the Union's 150m slips. The main sacrifice is, obviously, a complete lack of hull protection, but firepower, speed, and range are appropriate for capital ship screening duties.
A 32 knot ship can be built with six main guns on a similar hull, but the firepower trade-off might not be worth it.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
2,986 t light; 3,152 t standard; 3,662 t normal; 4,070 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(476.24 ft / 462.60 ft) x 42.65 ft x (14.44 / 15.57 ft)
(145.16 m / 141.00 m) x 13.00 m x (4.40 / 4.75 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 664 lbs / 301 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,576 shp / 34,000 Kw = 31.51 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 917 tons
Complement:
234 - 305
Cost:
£1.147 million / $4.586 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 169 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 169 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 55 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 55 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 1,492 tons, 40.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,125 tons, 30.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 676 tons, 18.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 145 tons, 4.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 65 tons
- Above deck: 80 tons
Fittings:
-17 t: Fire control
-25 t: L/R wireless
-25 t: Command facilities
-10 t: Night-fighting doodads (all these are above deck)
-32 t: 2x4 21" heavyweight torpedoes
-36 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,611 lbs / 731 Kg = 24.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.464
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Average freeboard: 15.49 ft / 4.72 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 147.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.5 %
Waterplane Area: 12,585 Square feet or 1,169 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 277 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.71
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 0.75
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Very similar to my colonial cruisers in production. Trade offs, but if it's a ship with guns vs no ship with no guns, it's worth it.
That would be the thinking if such a class came into production.
Interesting.
The Parthians are building the Artesmia II class, also 3000tons.
But it's meant to be the minimum cruiser to replace our ancient sailing frigates not war-emergency.
Likewise 130mm, but I used an
Omaha layout which gives the same broadside. More forward fire.
I made sure it would fit the docks in the two Pacific Freeports.
I put an armored box around the magazine, but I am 1/2 knot slower.
Converted for cruising speed, my bunkers have a touch more range.
I left off the Night fighting, but will likely refit it into the class.
Went for Scoutplanes and ASW capability though.
Always interesting to compare similar ships and different design choices.
:)
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on August 09, 2022, 11:18:26 AM
Union designers, finding themselves with not a lot of pressing tasks at the moment, churn out a 1924 emergency light cruiser.
The basic assumption is that the ship has to be completed in a year in order to replace war losses. This limits light displacement to 3,000 tonnes. That also offers a convenient break-point in hull strength limits.
The end result can be built in the Union's 150m slips. The main sacrifice is, obviously, a complete lack of hull protection, but firepower, speed, and range are appropriate for capital ship screening duties.
A 32 knot ship can be built with six main guns on a similar hull, but the firepower trade-off might not be worth it.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
2,986 t light; 3,152 t standard; 3,662 t normal; 4,070 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(476.24 ft / 462.60 ft) x 42.65 ft x (14.44 / 15.57 ft)
(145.16 m / 141.00 m) x 13.00 m x (4.40 / 4.75 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 664 lbs / 301 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,576 shp / 34,000 Kw = 31.51 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 917 tons
Complement:
234 - 305
Cost:
£1.147 million / $4.586 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 169 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 169 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 55 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 55 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 1,492 tons, 40.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,125 tons, 30.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 676 tons, 18.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 145 tons, 4.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 65 tons
- Above deck: 80 tons
Fittings:
-17 t: Fire control
-25 t: L/R wireless
-25 t: Command facilities
-10 t: Night-fighting doodads (all these are above deck)
-32 t: 2x4 21" heavyweight torpedoes
-36 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,611 lbs / 731 Kg = 24.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.464
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Average freeboard: 15.49 ft / 4.72 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 147.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.5 %
Waterplane Area: 12,585 Square feet or 1,169 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 277 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.71
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 0.75
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Scuttlebutt coming out of the nearby war - maybe a few of those 80,000 internees mentioned it in passing, who knows - is that airplanes are proving a bit more problematic than the Union might have anticipated.
The Union's existing complement of patrol vessels do not, thus far, feature much of an AA suite; they've mostly been built for observation and ASW. A new coastal escort/patrol vessel would offer some decent all-round capability for its size.
This has a single 100mm gun for anti-surface work, and two 50mm AA guns to swat down bad guys. A pair of fixed 450mm torpedoes offer a limited ability to threaten big bads or scuttle bad friendlies. Hydrophones and a small suite of depth charges allow it to keep a submarine honest for a short time.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1923
Displacement:
250 t light; 261 t standard; 281 t normal; 296 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(147.17 ft / 137.80 ft) x 19.69 ft x (7.87 / 8.18 ft)
(44.86 m / 42.00 m) x 6.00 m x (2.40 / 2.49 m)
Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1923 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 39 lbs / 18 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,948 shp / 2,200 Kw = 20.34 kts
Range 2,800nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 35 tons
Complement:
33 - 44
Cost:
£0.071 million / $0.286 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 3 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 99 tons, 35.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 114 tons, 40.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 31 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 27 tons, 9.6 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 11 tons
- Above deck: 1 tons
Fittings:
-1t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-4t: 2x1 450mm torpedos, fixed to fire just off the bows.
-6t: ASW weapons
-1t: Weight reserve
-15t: Enhanced hydrophone package
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
242 lbs / 110 Kg = 7.9 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.467
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 12.80 ft / 3.90 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 12.80 ft / 3.90 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Average freeboard: 10.35 ft / 3.16 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 127.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95.3 %
Waterplane Area: 1,745 Square feet or 162 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 140 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.77
- Longitudinal: 10.83
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I love it.
I like it too.
Does it really need
On the "ASW weapons" the final should be a little more specific - kites & harpoons, or DC throwers and DCs...
While the airpower was mainly annoyance, and dangerous to merchants, it did factor in.
Which for 1923 seems reasonable.
Billy Mitchell would be crushed by the results as far less than he promised.
For me, I'm going to have to do some refits to fit my 57mm AA on a whole bunch of ships.
Eventually I'll rip those out and put in ~37mm cannons, but the nose fusing isn't there yet.
And then I'm eyeing the 'dual purpose' tech, as I really want my 90mm AA to be 'DP'.
Which actually costs a little weight.
Does it really need...? I'm guessing that's either the enhanced hydrophones or torpedoes but don't know which.
I figure twin 15mm and 50mm are coming down my production lines soon.
Also need to retrofit the 1918 FC more widely across the fleet.
I upscaled the German TUFF 13.2mm GAST to the Parthian 15mm*, and have a new 57mm AA meant to replace the 90mm AA on destroyers when I discovered I didn't have anything under 90AA.
I've refitted the 1918 FC across my fleet, but it took 3 half years, as I upgraded other systems too. Not reflected in my Encyclopedia, still in Ship Designs, but ....I've had some other task on my plate.
*pregame I wanted a set progression in multiples of 7.5, the gaps growing as I went up. For various reasons I have failed to keep that sequence.
Building on earlier ideas of a fast ferry for Baltic transport of troops and the river transport down in South America, a fast ferry for Caribbean service.
Notionally, with "commuter seating" at 4 troopers per tonne, the ferry can transport 2,000 men, plus 500 t of cargo.
At a cruise speed (50% power) of 18 knots, the ferry could make a one-way run from Cartagena (not a PORT) to Colon in 16 hours, or from Barranquilla (a PORT) to Colon in 22 hours. Short hops would also enable troop transfer from Puerto Rico to either Hispaniola or the wee islands to the east.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
2,393 t light; 2,452 t standard; 2,655 t normal; 2,818 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(387.30 ft / 374.02 ft) x 44.29 ft x (12.47 / 13.01 ft)
(118.05 m / 114.00 m) x 13.50 m x (3.80 / 3.96 m)
Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1924 Model
1 x Single mount on sides, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 3,000 per gun
Machine guns in casemate mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 39 lbs / 18 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 9,651 shp / 7,200 Kw = 21.79 kts
Range 2,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 366 tons
Complement:
184 - 240
Cost:
£0.403 million / $1.612 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 8 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 6 tons, 0.2 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 318 tons, 12.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,023 tons, 38.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 263 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,038 tons, 39.1 %
- Hull below water: 250 tons
- Hull above water: 250 tons
- On freeboard deck: 500 tons
- Above deck: 38 tons
Fittings:
-500 t: Commuter seating for 2,000 passengers (FD)
-500 t: Cargo (AW/BW)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-13 t: Weight reserve (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,768 lbs / 3,070 Kg = 221.8 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.458
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.34 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Average freeboard: 16.98 ft / 5.18 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.5 %
Waterplane Area: 10,567 Square feet or 982 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 156 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 277 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
My plans were broadly along the lines of:
-Straznik and a second light AC.
-2 battleships similar to the Encke class
-light cruisers and torpedo-boats to escort them
-submarines
-aircraft carriers...of some sort, with a lot of options not decided upon
-Some fast oilers, bigger depot ships, etc.
However, larger investments into the land/air forces in the Caribbean are going to eat into my building plan.
At least my commitments are not global, so I can concentrate assets a bit more.
I guess I'd call this a super-sloop or gunship. Eight 130mm guns (in that 2-gun mount I haven't gotten around to designing yet), plus a plane for scouting and the miscellaneous weight allows for fish and a decent ASW kit.
Don't know that I'm building any, but it was interesting to play with.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
2,184 t light; 2,323 t standard; 2,727 t normal; 3,049 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(358.19 ft / 345.47 ft) x 42.65 ft x (13.78 / 14.96 ft)
(109.18 m / 105.30 m) x 13.00 m x (4.20 / 4.56 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 603 lbs / 273 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 26,810 shp / 20,000 Kw = 27.64 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 726 tons
Complement:
188 - 245
Cost:
£0.787 million / $3.148 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 157 tons, 5.8 %
Armour: 57 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 52 tons, 1.9 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 883 tons, 32.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 867 tons, 31.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 543 tons, 19.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 220 tons, 8.1 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- Hull above water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 90 tons
- Above deck: 90 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,805 lbs / 819 Kg = 26.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.484
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.10 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.45 ft / 5.32 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 126.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.3 %
Waterplane Area: 9,559 Square feet or 888 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 266 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.65
- Longitudinal: 2.72
- Overall: 0.75
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
It's very interesting. Similar to my colonial corvettes. But given the current experiences, I wonder if you wouldn't want more AA. As it stands I'll be doing some significant AA refits of my own ships.
Quite possibly although I'd pictured it more as an open ocean escort with limited air threats.
When I was developing the Artesmia II frigate, I looked at a range of 130mm <3000t vessels.
I was expecting more independent long range role with secondary scout / close escort.
So I wound up with more speed, more guns, and box armor on the magazines for 3000 tons.
Since my range was at a higher speed- more fuel.
To me, having more of those attributes is worth the extra tonnage, as I can't
afford lots of specialist vessels when a little more tonnage gets me a decent multirole.
Since the first two though, I'm really reconsidering the armor and guns aspect,
so for 1924 I'm looking at dumping my speed down to 28-29 knots,
upping the guns to 165mm, and adding a protective deck and floatplanes
Not a true 6000 ton cruiser, but 2 of them may be able to take one reasonably while giving more flex.
Scaling up to 3,000 t is certainly an option, and I've done that previously with that escort cruiser a few pages back. Something that focused more on (any) protection might be easier than that one, which was dictated by speed.
It just isn't cool when bad people use airplanes to blow up your ships. And while the obvious answer is to just shoot down the airplanes, sometimes you want other options.
Like putting out balloons that the airplanes have to avoid flying into, because that isn't good for the airplanes and voids their warranties.
So you get something like this, which is a ship designed to deploy a modest balloon barrage in support of an anchorage or amphibious landing or what have you. There's a hydrogen facility below water. Above decks are two holds for deflated balloons, which I've assumed require about half the length/width/height of an inflated balloon, and a hold between those for buoys.
The general notion is that the buoy is moved by hoist/lift to an exterior working platform. Then the balloon is lifted out of the hold, inflated, and attached to the buoy. The completed contraption is then loaded onto one of the two smaller buoy tenders (the small craft shown aft) and taken out to deploy while the mother ship stays safe at anchor behind her torpedo nets. The buoy tender sets the buoy in the water, unreel its anchor so it stays put, then adjust the winch to let the balloon float at the desired height.
Barrage Tender, laid down 1924
Displacement:
5,601 t light; 5,752 t standard; 6,152 t normal; 6,471 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(448.72 ft / 438.65 ft) x 62.34 ft x (13.12 / 13.68 ft)
(136.77 m / 133.70 m) x 19.00 m x (4.00 / 4.17 m)
Armament:
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mount, 1924 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 197 lbs / 89 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 13,405 shp / 10,000 Kw = 20.48 kts
Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 718 tons
Complement:
346 - 451
Cost:
£0.847 million / $3.386 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 48 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 20 tons, 0.3 %
- Armament: 20 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 442 tons, 7.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,879 tons, 46.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 550 tons, 8.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,213 tons, 36.0 %
- Hull below water: 1,243 tons
- Hull above water: 570 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Fittings:
-500 t: Ballast (BW)
-500 t: Hydrogen production plant and stores (BW)
-243 t: That sweet turbo-electic drive (BW)
-320 t: Balloon storage (AW)
-16 t: Balloons themselves (AW)
-100 t: 16 buoys, storage, workbench, and lift (AW)
-134 t: Anti-torpedo nets (AW)
-80 t: 2 x 20 t buoy tenders and davits (FD)
-50 t: Two big cranes (FD)
-70 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-120 t: Inflation/work platform (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Meteorology office (AD)
-5 t: Model 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: More Weight reserve (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,174 lbs / 9,151 Kg = 301.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.605
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.04 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.94 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 29.20 ft / 8.90 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarter deck: 25.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Average freeboard: 24.40 ft / 7.44 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 289.0 %
Waterplane Area: 19,999 Square feet or 1,858 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 188 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 446 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.04
- Longitudinal: 3.62
- Overall: 1.18
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
And the buoy tender in more detail...
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
20 t light; 21 t standard; 22 t normal; 22 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(52.63 ft / 49.21 ft) x 13.12 ft x (1.80 / 1.82 ft)
(16.04 m / 15.00 m) x 4.00 m x (0.55 / 0.56 m)
Armament:
2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 67 shp / 50 Kw = 10.05 kts
Range 200nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 tons
Complement:
4 - 6
Cost:
£0.003 million / $0.013 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2 tons, 10.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11 tons, 51.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 tons, 5.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 7 tons, 32.3 %
- Hull below water: 1 tons
- Above deck: 6 tons
Fittings:
-1 t: Smallest diesel-electric drive in the Union (BW)
-6 t: Crane and cradle for one balloon buoy (AD to reflect topweight/weathervaning of balloon)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
139 lbs / 63 Kg = 1,349.8 x 0.6 " / 15 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 9.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.43
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.651
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 7.02 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.97 ft / 0.60 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Average freeboard: 6.39 ft / 1.95 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 43.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.9 %
Waterplane Area: 495 Square feet or 46 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 183 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 13 lbs/sq ft or 61 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.71
- Longitudinal: 22.41
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
How about a hospital ship.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
7,308 t light; 7,465 t standard; 7,870 t normal; 8,194 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(405.30 ft / 393.70 ft) x 65.62 ft x (16.40 / 16.98 ft)
(123.53 m / 120.00 m) x 20.00 m x (5.00 / 5.17 m)
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 12,065 shp / 9,000 Kw = 18.90 kts
Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 729 tons
Complement:
417 - 543
Cost:
£0.963 million / $3.850 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 397 tons, 5.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,277 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 563 tons, 7.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4,633 tons, 58.9 %
- Hull below water: 818 tons
- Hull above water: 2,400 tons
- On freeboard deck: 400 tons
- Above deck: 1,015 tons
Fittings:
-218 t: D-E machinery (BW)
-600 t: Stores (BW)
-2,400 t: Wards for 800 patients (AW)
-100 t: Boats and cranes (FD)
-300 t: Triage area, general hospital facilities, and five operating theatres (FD)
-800 t: Accommodation for 400 staff (AD)
-150 t: Staff and patient amenities (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-40 t: Weight reserve (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,569 lbs / 8,423 Kg = 171.9 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.654
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.54 ft / 8.70 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Quarter deck: 25.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 22.05 ft / 6.72 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 213.5 %
Waterplane Area: 19,790 Square feet or 1,839 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 145 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 383 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.37
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily
1924 is going to see a fair bit of minor refitting amongst the fleet.
The 20 H- and 20 I- class torpedo-boats are coastal swarm assets in the North Sea. They don't have a lot of life left (laid down 1902-07), and very little in the way of available weight.
Option 1: ~$0.2 and ~0.2 BP for the entire group (~5 t of work each)
-Replace the 10mm machine guns with 15mm machine guns
-Use up the remaining misc. weight (up to 2 t) on depth charges; not that there's any hydrophones, but it provides a basic blind ASW ability.
Option 2: ~20 t of work each, I haven't simmed it so this is a guess. Up to $0.8 and 0.8 BP for the whole 40.
-In addition to the above, remove existing 50mm QF
-Install one 50mm AA
-Install basic hydrophones
-Update to 1918 fire control
-Maybe have a few extra tonnes for more depth charges.
The I class has a second 100mm gun, so they certainly benefit more from the more extensive refit. Plus they'll be around a little longer. I don't think there would be weight for heavier torpedoes, but we'll see.
Also likely to refit the three remaining Bug and four Pawtomeck class protected cruisers. Laid down 1908-1912, the easy issues are:
-They're two generations behind on fire control
-Swap out the various 50mm QF guns for a couple of 100mm AA
-Swap out 10mm for 15mm machine guns
-See if heavier torpedoes can be added.
If I bump up to a refurbishment, I could switch to all oil-firing bunkerage at no BP cost.
The Bugs have an all-100mm battery and I don't think I would mess with that.
The Pawtowecks have a mixed battery of 2x130 (DM, not M&H)/10x100mm. While I could refurb to 6x130mm M&H, the alternative might be to replace the 130mm with 2-gun 100mm. That would mean they don't have much of a punch against armored targets, but 14 x 100mm guns, with nine on the broadside, would be fairly effective in an anti-TB role perhaps.
QuoteOption 2: ~20 t of work each, I haven't simmed it so this is a guess. Up to $0.8 and 0.8 BP for the whole 40.
-In addition to the above, remove existing 50mm QF
-Install one 50mm AA
-Install basic hydrophones
-Update to 1918 fire control
-Maybe have a few extra tonnes for more depth charges.
After a look on H & I class, , option 2 is better & economical, I think.
You can tell I was rusty when I designed those torpedo-boats; I've got mount and hoist for the 100mm and 50mm guns. Not only does that add unnecessary weight, it also means that changing those guns requires a more expensive refurbishment.
Refurbing an H class, including a change of bunkerage (2500 --> 3300 nm with 100% oil) would cost $0.20 and 0.045 BP per unit, or $4.00 and 0.9 BP for the class of 20. That otherwise follows what's described above, with enough miscellaneous weight to swap in 3 21" torpedoes and several tonnes of ASW hardware.
One unresolved issue on refitting ships with the destroyer architecture is the weight calculation for 50% machinery is a bit wacky.
Even if the engines aren't touched...So just a spot to double check.
It's one of those "we should come up with a rule to fix that' ....
Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way but will have to check.
My gut instinct is a simple, cheap refit of the H clase and the more intensive refurbishment for the I class.
And then maybe I need to consider a big run of new 500 to 1,000 t boats for the swarm function.
Quote...
And then maybe I need to consider a big run of new 500 to 1,000 t boats for the swarm function.
The Byzantine TGBs were built for this function.
However, you can downgrade old Destroyers and Torpedo Boats and only build Fleet Destroyers.
Quote from: Jefgte on November 19, 2022, 03:14:19 PM
Quote...
The Byzantine TGBs were built for this function.
However, you can downgrade old Destroyers and Torpedo Boats and only build Fleet Destroyers.
Currently, if you 'downgrade' old DDs and TBs under the 50% machinery, they then need to meet cruiser rules.
Obviously that does not easily allow for the real life WW2 Destroyer Escorts,
but fixing that is a subject for future rule changes.
A BIG part of the problem is ... take my Tiger II class - 1864 tons normal and 933 tons of engines : 50.1%
So rip out half the engines, save 466 tons, stick in 466 tons of other stuff !!
Except the reason we're using the modified comp hull for DDs is the Engines really are not taking up 933 tons,
SS overestimates engine tonnage as it's based on battlewagons.
So in reality, there's far less weight to be saved.
So figuring out how to fix that is on the 'to do list' for rule updates
...which may have been what we did if we didn't have the Mayan war.
but we did, and now everyone's busy again.
The refurbishment of the I class would leave the engines alone. The top speed of 24 knots is pretty crappy for 1924, but enough to overtake submarines or most merchies and to at least make enemy capital ships put in some effort to avoid them. Happily, the ship continues to have 54%+ of its normal weight assigned to machinery, Kirk's comments and concerns notwithstanding.
As generally noted above:
-Chop out the old 50mm M&H and 10mm machine guns; replace them with a single 50mm AA and four 15mm machine guns
-Switch to all-oil-fired machinery, which increases the range from 2500 to 3100 nm @ 10 knots.
-Increase miscellaneous weight to 39 t, all of it new, even the radio.
-Basic refurb cost.
I cost this at $0.199 and 0.041 BP per unit, no drydock required. As a North Sea/Baltic patroller/pest, it's probably adequate until new replacements come along in a few years.
I-class refurb, laid down 1905, refurbished 1924
Displacement:
539 t light; 560 t standard; 614 t normal; 658 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(229.66 ft / 226.38 ft) x 22.97 ft x (9.84 / 10.31 ft)
(70.00 m / 69.00 m) x 7.00 m x (3.00 / 3.14 m)
Armament:
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 200 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 66 lbs / 30 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,970 ihp / 5,200 Kw = 24.13 kts
Range 3,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 98 tons
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
61 - 80
Cost:
£0.072 million / $0.288 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 4 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 335 tons, 54.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 143 tons, 23.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 75 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 39 tons, 6.4 %
- Hull below water: 5 tons
- On freeboard deck: 17 tons
- Above deck: 17 tons
Fittings:
-2 t: 1918 Fire control (AD)
-10 t: S/R wireless (AD)
-5 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-12 t: 1x3 heavyweight 21" torpedo carriage (FD)
-5 t: ASW stuff (FD)
-5 t: Basic hydrophone package (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
118 lbs / 53 Kg = 3.9 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.420 / 0.429
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 9.69 ft / 2.95 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 186.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.7 %
Waterplane Area: 3,241 Square feet or 301 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 32 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 114 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.70
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Warning: Date too early for anti-air gun - 2nd battery oh no it isn't
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on November 19, 2022, 04:43:16 PM
Quote from: Jefgte on November 19, 2022, 03:14:19 PM
...
The Byzantine TGBs were built for this function.
However, you can downgrade old Destroyers and Torpedo Boats and only build Fleet Destroyers.
Currently, if you 'downgrade' old DDs and TBs under the 50% machinery, they then need to meet cruiser rules.
Obviously that does not easily allow for the real life WW2 Destroyer Escorts,
but fixing that is a subject for future rule changes.
A BIG part of the problem is ... take my Tiger II class - 1864 tons normal and 933 tons of engines : 50.1%
So rip out half the engines, save 466 tons, stick in 466 tons of other stuff !!
Except the reason we're using the modified comp hull for DDs is the Engines really are not taking up 933 tons,
SS overestimates engine tonnage as it's based on battlewagons.
So in reality, there's far less weight to be saved.
So figuring out how to fix that is on the 'to do list' for rule updates
...which may have been what we did if we didn't have the Mayan war.
but we did, and now everyone's busy again.
I agree it's a rule thing to consider.
I interpreted Jef's comment to mean "Change the role of old destroyers/torpedo boats" rather than "Rip out the old engines and put in newer, more efficient engines".
I don't change machines from old DDs, TGBs & TBs.
They have decent speed to be used as patrol boats or gunboats.
I scrap 24/25 yo and the too slow (21kts).
I've done the same, simply changed their official roles.
With some of the oldest, I did an ASW conversion to quickly get platforms in service.
I still had to watch the % as some weight changes seem to alter the "Normal"
and so result in % machinery changes...which is silly.
I think we had a whole conversation over that since I complained about it previously. The wonky stuff that happens with SS3 is most annoying.
Quote from: Desertfox on November 21, 2022, 05:34:55 PM
I think we had a whole conversation over that since I complained about it previously. The wonky stuff that happens with SS3 is most annoying.
Yep, you had a good point then, and it's still a problem now.
It's going to be a bigger one as this generation of DDs ages and folks want to go the DE route,
so it should be looked at :)
The 1924 korweta class is somewhat longer and heavier than preceding types, and the flush deck gives her a decidedly chonky appearance.
The class replaces two 50mm QF with a second 100mm QF and a 50mm AA mount, both aft. Operating range is increased.
The higher aft freeboard and longer enclosed superstructure should make the ship more habitable and workable in rough sea conditions.
Korweta, type laid down 1924
Displacement:
500 t light; 523 t standard; 564 t normal; 596 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(170.79 ft / 164.04 ft) x 24.93 ft x (9.84 / 10.26 ft)
(52.06 m / 50.00 m) x 7.60 m x (3.00 / 3.13 m)
Armament:
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1924 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 66 lbs / 30 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 4,557 shp / 3,400 Kw = 20.66 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 73 tons
Complement:
57 - 75
Cost:
£0.130 million / $0.518 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 12 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 4 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 150 tons, 26.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 256 tons, 45.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 64 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 78 tons, 13.8 %
- Hull below water: 53 tons
- On freeboard deck: 23 tons
- Above deck: 2 tons
Fittings:
-38 t: T-E drive (BW)
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-15 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-6 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-2t: 1918 Fire control (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
877 lbs / 398 Kg = 28.7 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.490 / 0.497
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.58 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 16.06 ft / 4.90 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.1 %
Waterplane Area: 2,701 Square feet or 251 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 164 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.70
- Longitudinal: 24.72
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
The three Bug-class protected cruisers are now 16 years old, or at least, the design is.
A simple refit would:
-Replace the 50mm QF and 10mm AA with 4x100mm AA and 15mm MG
-Add a bit of misc. weight for heavier torpedos
-Update the fire control
Cost would be quite low. Like $0.1 / 0.1 BP or thereabouts.
A simple-ish refurb would also convert the machinery to oil-firing. This doesn't actually add a heck of a lot of range - 4,000 to 5,300. The cash cost would increase to over a dollar.
A more elaborate refurb would replace the machinery. I can bump up to 26.5 knots (from 24.2) without seakeeping going below 1.00, and the newer engine year means I get more range out of a ton of oil. I can bump it to something like 9,500 nm without factoring in the geared bonus. Cost jumps to $2.84 and 0.965 BP per unit.
I would not be replacing the main battery; while the mount and hoist is maybe dumb, sizing up to 130mm would require me to escalate up to a reconstruction, with higher overall project costs.
The end product is perhaps adequate to continue screening old armored cruisers for a few years, and then take up secondary patrol or trade defence functions.
Thoughts?
A (relatively) fast river transport capable of moving a reinforced platoon/half-company of light infantry around.
Why would you want to do that? Maybe there's a problem with bandits or river pirates, or the locals are pissed off at the local mine/oil well/missionary/store/plantation and somebody needs to get in there quick to calm things down.
The diesels are an expensive item, weight-wise, but would seem to offer more responsiveness than something with boilers.
Armament is limited to machine guns, but four 15mm/90cal guns is likely fairly daunting to the expected range of domestic trouble-makers.
I'd need to wait till H2/24 in order to finish the gun mount and cruiser tech (yes - world's smallest cruisers).
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
104 t light; 107 t standard; 113 t normal; 117 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(151.73 ft / 147.64 ft) x 20.34 ft x (2.62 / 2.71 ft)
(46.25 m / 45.00 m) x 6.20 m x (0.80 / 0.83 m)
Armament:
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,006 shp / 750 Kw = 17.96 kts
Range 270nm at 17.96 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 11 tons
Complement:
16 - 22
Cost:
£0.026 million / $0.105 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 2 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 1.6 %
Machinery: 33 tons, 29.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 44 tons, 39.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9 tons, 7.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 21.3 %
- Hull below water: 10 tons
- On freeboard deck: 14 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
154 lbs / 70 Kg = 1,490.6 x 0.6 " / 15 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 10.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.72
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 84
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.98 ft / 0.30 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Average freeboard: 6.03 ft / 1.84 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.2 %
Waterplane Area: 2,001 Square feet or 186 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 17 lbs/sq ft or 82 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.71
- Longitudinal: 1.16
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Range also about 1,300 nm @ 10 knots, not addjusting for diesels.
It's interesting.
I've been fielding a number of colonial troop designs, nothing this small.
I doubt even diesels would be happy running 100% for their entire run.
The only thing I really have to compare it to is my TB-IV design, 60t DD.
Which currently serves the same role in Sumatra, but no troops, just a 45mm deck gun and a couple MGs..and 2 x 16" torps.
I'd have to toy with the hull parameters to see if there's a cheaper tonnage combination,
but I'm guessing your 270 @ 18knts fuel parameter is soaking up a lot of hull strength.
It may be overkill, and the diesel weight carries a heavy weight penalty as well.
I did like the idea of building to destroyer rules but success has eluded me so far.
Knocking the range down from 270 to 200 nm lets me shave off a grand total of 2 tonnes light displacement.
Total bunkerge is only 11 t to start with, so actually it doesn't look like a significant problem area.
Or build it to auxiliary rules and get some serious carrying capacity on board. The Toph Marus cost the same but are a lot more capable, with 10 times the range and 6 times the misc weight.
That's true, although the much deeper draft of the Maru is a consideration here. I'm looking at something that can go most places a river bandit could.
my 'Gnat' class probably fits that description.
The draft is a mere 1.66m
The range is less, but again I question if the role requires charging about madly.
They don't have quite the marines or cargo capacity, but reallocation of the below-deck weights could fix that.
The gunboat version has a 90mm, the subchaser just a 57mm so it can have DCs.
Compared to my 1904 60ton TB-V, they cost more, are much slower (no DD bonus), and have the same weapon tonnage, so what the Aux really gets is that miscellaneous weight allowance, not a better warship. Though since hydrophones are misc weight, as are Minesweeper trawls, they work better on the Gnats than TB-Vs.
Bottom of :
https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7658.135.html (https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7658.135.html)
Union riverine forces in [Uruguay] are supported by a good-sized depot ship, but their comrades in Africa lack such capabilities. With talk of deploying small MTBs into the Orimiri Delta as part of anti-bandit operations, perhaps the time has come for a small, shallow draft support vessel.
This particular design incorporates a lot of ideas from the recent batch of riverine seaplane tenders, including the provision of a single aircraft right aft for scouting and recce purposes. Otherwise, it's basically a floating barracks for the crews of four small torpedo-craft and a platoon or so of naval infantry or police.
The ship is not really intended as a combat unit, but the shallow draft and single 50mm gun does allow her to operate in fairly shallow stretches of the river system in a direct-fire support capacity if that need arises.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
299 t light; 307 t standard; 316 t normal; 324 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(163.48 ft / 157.48 ft) x 26.25 ft x (3.94 / 4.02 ft)
(49.83 m / 48.00 m) x 8.00 m x (1.20 / 1.22 m)
Armament:
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1924 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 402 shp / 300 Kw = 11.86 kts
Range 1,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 17 tons
Complement:
36 - 48
Cost:
£0.039 million / $0.157 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 8 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 2.6 %
Machinery: 13 tons, 4.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 99 tons, 31.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 17 tons, 5.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 177 tons, 56.0 %
- Hull below water: 12 tons
- Hull above water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 145 tons
- Above deck: 5 tons
Fittings:
-4 t: Diesel engines (BW)
-8 t: Stores for 80 t of small craft (BW)
-10 t: Small craft workshop (AW)
-5 t: Brig (AW)
-120 t: Accommodation for 24 MTB crew and 36 naval infantry/police (FD)
-20 t: Facilities for one unarmed floatplane (FD)
-5 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-5 t: Working space (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,916 lbs / 869 Kg = 18,603.6 x 0.6 " / 15 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 10.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.680 / 0.682
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.98 ft / 0.30 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 26.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.2 %
Waterplane Area: 3,254 Square feet or 302 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 147 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 103 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.65
- Longitudinal: 2.42
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Interesting little ship.
Overall I like it- good multi-role platform.
For my tastes,
I'd really want a larger main gun if I could.
One of the advantages of a cruiser build :)
My vague recollection is for field fortifications,
log breastworks could be effective against even 75mm,
while they weren't against 100mm.
I'm guessing a 75 would penetrate but not seriously disrupt,
while splinters would be absorbed.
I've got a 75 to work with. I imagine it's not much heavier than a 50, really.
The U-class torpedo-boat is basically a T-class with slightly newer and lighter machinery (producing the same output) and a few extra goodies paid for with the weight savings:
-two extra torpedoes
-more heavy machine guns, in twin mounts
-sonar.
They'll start production in 2/24.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
1,885 t light; 1,974 t standard; 2,250 t normal; 2,471 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(388.70 ft / 377.30 ft) x 36.09 ft x (14.11 / 15.02 ft)
(118.48 m / 115.00 m) x 11.00 m x (4.30 / 4.58 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1924 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 302 lbs / 137 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,214 shp / 30,000 Kw = 32.25 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 497 tons
Complement:
163 - 212
Cost:
£0.773 million / $3.090 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 79 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 28 tons, 1.2 %
- Armament: 28 tons, 1.2 %
Machinery: 1,117 tons, 49.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 533 tons, 23.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 365 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 128 tons, 5.7 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 58 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Fittings:
-8 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-32 t: 2x4 21" TT (FD)
-15 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-13 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
-10 t: Sonar
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophones
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
544 lbs / 247 Kg = 8.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Forward deck: 26.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Aft deck: 39.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.5 %
Waterplane Area: 8,432 Square feet or 783 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
The refurbishment of the small carrier Labedz won't take place until 1925, because I won't have the tech until then, but the Union already has a sense of what it wants to do, based on various mishaps and disappointments with attempted landings over the past while.
The main thing is clearing the flight deck off. The above-decks superstructure will be scaled down and shifted to port; the funnels also. The funnels and adjacent superstructure will also have some plating covering up gaps between them in order to reduce turbulence. Some below-flight deck working space will be created to offset the loss of working space in the actual island. Why port? Because Union engines torque clockwise and pilots are used to veering to starboard when landings need to be aborted.
The armament will also be adjusted. The forward 130mm 2-gun mount (that is actually a twin mount because I didn't get the research done in time) has awful firing arcs and will be yanked. From what's known about the recent Costa Rican war, a heavier AA battery is warranted so four 100mm guns will be added in sponsons adjacent to the hanger deck. Existing 50mm guns will be relocated as well - on the port side, to fore and aft of the island. On the starboard side, in a sponson opposite the island. Some 15mm machine guns will also be added.
Estimated cost of the refurbishment is $1.84 and 0.041 BP.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922
Displacement:
4,411 t light; 4,549 t standard; 4,880 t normal; 5,145 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491.08 ft / 482.28 ft) x 45.93 ft x (15.42 / 16.05 ft)
(149.68 m / 147.00 m) x 14.00 m x (4.70 / 4.89 m)
Armament:
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 275 lbs / 125 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,577 shp / 34,000 Kw = 30.07 kts
Range 8,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 596 tons
Complement:
291 - 379
Cost:
£1.066 million / $4.264 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 63 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 44 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 44 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,546 tons, 31.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,943 tons, 39.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 469 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 815 tons, 16.7 %
- Hull below water: 360 tons
- Hull above water: 360 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,841 lbs / 2,196 Kg = 72.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Average freeboard: 22.08 ft / 6.73 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 230.0 %
Waterplane Area: 14,759 Square feet or 1,371 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 313 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.79
- Longitudinal: 3.25
- Overall: 0.91
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
nice little conversion, and pic.
What is the Airgroup ?
Same as originally, a whopping six planes.
Ah, you have 9 paid for in the 360+360,
but no misc wt breakdown, so not obvious.
Follow up question - it's a carrier, not a cruiser so why
is the hull 0.91 ?
QuoteFollow up question - it's a carrier, not a cruiser so why
is the hull 0.91 ?
A 0.9 cruiser transformed into a carrier must remain 0.9
Add some misc weight in reserve...for later.
The forward flight deck should not lean forward.
If the small carrier slumps when taking off, the pilot takes a bath.
In the warm waters of the Indian Ocean, no problemo.
But in the icy waters of the far north. He's going to peel the nuts ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Jefgte on January 05, 2023, 09:06:56 AM
QuoteFollow up question - it's a carrier, not a cruiser so why
is the hull 0.91 ?
A 0.9 cruiser transformed into a carrier must remain 0.9
Add some misc weight in reserve...for later.
Well perhaps that is a discussion we need to have.
I was thinking that once it meets carrier specs, it needs to be 1.0
Which would mean less Misc Wt / Air Group, or a smaller engine, etc.
Jef is correct.
The easy course of action is to decide the Union doesn't think six planes are practical and cut capacity to five. Which reduces the limited utility further but this was always an experimental platform anyway.
I suppose just yanking out a boiler isn't out of the question either.
QuoteWell perhaps that is a discussion we need to have.
I was thinking that once it meets carrier specs, it needs to be 1.0
Which would mean less Misc Wt / Air Group, or a smaller engine, etc.
I have not tested 6000t cruiser (0.9) conversion to flat deck.
One thing we might ask is if the 1.0 hull is appropriate for carriers.
There's no big guns that require heavier scantlings for shock.
Many were built more along the lines of cruisers, and their guns and armor
are more on that scale.
Perhaps an item for a hoped-for spring rules discussion.
Although the Union sees a need for fighter cover for capital ships, this is not that ship. That'll be a bigger, faster, better protected vessel that benefits from more operational experience from Labedz and this class. This class is a supporting element for trade protection forces and might be found operating with armored or light cruisers in the Caribbean or western Atlantic.
The airgroup of 15 is notionally going to be 6 fighters and 9 scout/torpedo-bombers, though this will shrink to 12 aircraft in the next decade as planes get bigger. One hanger is served by two elevators; the small extensions of the hanger forward and aft of the elevators are likely only wide enough for one aircraft each and might serve as repair/maintenance areas. The area adjacent to the wonky superstructure might only be wide enough to stack fighters, hard to say without a deck plan that I am not drawing.
I'm assuming one cat is probably the limit of what can be accommodated on the flight deck, and have based the weight cost on the Aviation Ship guidelines.
Armament includes destroyer-scale anti-surface batteries and a modest heavy/light AA battery, most of it installed in on the sides. Protection is modest and there was some question as to whether the belt was even worth the weight penalties. Speed and range are barely adequate to keep up with contemporary armored cruisers but should be fine in any situation not involving panicked flight away from enemy surface ships.
Other fittings are somewhat spartan given her size but include small air operations and surface flag areas.
The class would notionally consist of two units, though more are not out of the question.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
8,996 t light; 9,277 t standard; 10,209 t normal; 10,955 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(558.71 ft / 541.99 ft) x 72.18 ft x (19.03 / 20.05 ft)
(170.29 m / 165.20 m) x 22.00 m x (5.80 / 6.11 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 530 lbs / 240 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 318.24 ft / 97.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 65,683 shp / 49,000 Kw = 29.46 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,678 tons
Complement:
507 - 660
Cost:
£2.155 million / $8.621 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 129 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 855 tons, 8.4 %
- Belts: 320 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 65 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 470 tons, 4.6 %
Machinery: 2,133 tons, 20.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,457 tons, 43.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,213 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,423 tons, 13.9 %
- Hull below water: 600 tons
- Hull above water: 600 tons
- On freeboard deck: 123 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Fittings:
-1,200 t: 15 aircraft @ 80 t each (BW/AW)
-13 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Second S/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: Air Operation Center (AD)
-25 t: Flag facilities (FD)
-5 t: 1 x Catapult (FD)
-110 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,779 lbs / 9,879 Kg = 324.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.489
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.51 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Average freeboard: 31.23 ft / 9.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 315.6 %
Waterplane Area: 25,601 Square feet or 2,378 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 146 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 468 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.84
- Longitudinal: 4.49
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 08, 2023, 08:27:17 PM
I'm assuming one cat is probably the limit of what can be accommodated on the flight deck, and have based the weight cost on the Aviation Ship guidelines.
I actually figure you can fit 2 - 22m beam is decently wide.
As for "how much"... That's the only cost basis we have.
It's kinda a storyline bit, as the 'Airgroup' weight is supposed to cover such things,
but it's probably useful as a way to specify and account for the design detail without paying an exorbitant additional cost.
I should observe that's a gunpowder cat, which should be the simplest, and ... somewhere I've read that floatplanes had a weight limit as a result.
Something like 5000lbs.
In my various readings really don't recall stumbling across weights for hydraulic catapults, or space requirements. I have a vague memory of the flywheel one
on Saratoga being some obnoxious number like 100 tons, but also deemed too heavy and unsatisfactory.
I might just follow your lead and go with 25t then.
Might also see what I can do with another thousand tonnes. It throws off the building time but eh maybe the speed and protection will be that much better.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 10, 2023, 12:58:21 PM
I might just follow your lead and go with 25t then.
Might also see what I can do with another thousand tonnes. It throws off the building time but eh maybe the speed and protection will be that much better.
um, but the latest version of
Falconeer follows
your lead.
If they are mostly storyline elements, I don't think it matters that much.
BTW, when you express range at 10knts, I presume that's your cruise speed.
Which means you have 1,640 hours / 68 days / 9.76weeks of fuel.
Quite allot more than the amount of stores you likely have.
BUT you may be planning prolonged high speed runs.
In which case I would advocate for a Notes range of X,000 @ Y kts.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 10, 2023, 12:58:21 PM
Might also see what I can do with another thousand tonnes.
Well, at a minimum it would achieve 9,996 tons !
I keep the cruise speed at 10 knots because it's easier for me to compare across classes, rather than having some ships with 10, some with 12, or some with 15.
But I agree with the general idea that notes on alternate ranges would be useful.
I meant I was following your lead in the sense of assigning catapult weights specifically. I think you were first to assign a 25t figure for a hydraulic cat.
So 1,000 extra tonnes allows some additional options, and if I simply add to the ship's draft, it means:
-100% belt coverage, at 75mm
-A bit more range
-Speed bumped up above 30 kts
-18 aircraft rather than 15 (which means 15 rather than 12 when we get to the thirties).
-Drawing is unchanged since the above-water dimensions are the same.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
9,971 t light; 10,275 t standard; 11,353 t normal; 12,216 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(558.71 ft / 541.99 ft) x 72.18 ft x (21.16 / 22.34 ft)
(170.29 m / 165.20 m) x 22.00 m x (6.45 / 6.81 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 530 lbs / 240 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 352.30 ft / 107.38 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 76,408 shp / 57,000 Kw = 30.10 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts (12,200@12 or 7300@15, ignoring the geared machinery bonus)
Bunker at max displacement = 1,942 tons
Complement:
549 - 714
Cost:
£2.426 million / $9.706 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 129 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 1,055 tons, 9.3 %
- Belts: 519 tons, 4.6 %
- Armament: 65 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 470 tons, 4.1 %
Machinery: 2,481 tons, 21.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,625 tons, 40.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,382 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,682 tons, 14.8 %
- Hull below water: 720 tons
- Hull above water: 720 tons
- On freeboard deck: 142 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,703 lbs / 9,844 Kg = 323.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.489
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.51 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Average freeboard: 31.23 ft / 9.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 291.4 %
Waterplane Area: 25,601 Square feet or 2,378 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 477 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.84
- Longitudinal: 4.49
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on January 10, 2023, 02:32:50 PM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 10, 2023, 12:58:21 PM
Might also see what I can do with another thousand tonnes.
Well, at a minimum it would achieve 9,996 tons !
Achieve my objectives with a mere 975 extra tonnes. Government people would say, "I'm going to let you have your other 25 tonnes back" and disconnect from the call.
For giggles, a 3,000 t, 0.75 mini-carrier.
The waterplane area allows for 18 aircraft; I assigned weight for six (five at 1933 tech).
The hull is 20m shorter than HMS Audacity, which is probably not a deal-breaker if operating light aircraft and there's no deck-park. The big problem is going to be the limited width of the ship, I think. At 14 metres, it's 3 metres narrower than a CVE. A challenge for landing and for installing a hanger below deck. I'd assume a single lift centre-ish and a skinny hanger just wide enough for one plane with wings folded.
Stability isn't great, given the freeboard, but lots of bunkerage and the weight of the belt helped with that. Miscellaneous weight allows for a couple radios above deck, one catapult on deck, and a bit of a reserve.
Mini-Me, laid down 1925
Displacement:
2,994 t light; 3,093 t standard; 3,574 t normal; 3,959 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(424.13 ft / 403.54 ft) x 49.21 ft x (13.12 / 14.16 ft)
(129.28 m / 123.00 m) x 15.00 m x (4.00 / 4.32 m)
Armament:
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 185 lbs / 84 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 12,064 shp / 9,000 Kw = 22.05 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 866 tons
Complement:
230 - 300
Cost:
£0.552 million / $2.209 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 34 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 498 tons, 13.9 %
- Belts: 250 tons, 7.0 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 239 tons, 6.7 %
Machinery: 392 tons, 11.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,490 tons, 41.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 580 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 580 tons, 16.2 %
- Hull below water: 240 tons
- Hull above water: 240 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,838 lbs / 4,916 Kg = 355.2 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.493
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 317.8 %
Waterplane Area: 12,996 Square feet or 1,207 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 183 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 222 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.56
- Longitudinal: 9.68
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Waterplane area allows 18 aircraft, surprisingly.
Not too far off from my Creek class. Though the latter has a true main battery, as a river is one heck of a way to easily transport artillery and I'd be remiss to waste the opportunity. Also, the Creeks have a similar draft for purposes of operating on the Missouri, and a secondary battery/AA Battery of 30mm guns that are better at ripping up small boats than even an MG.
playing about, I wound up with a similar vessel,
though I omitted armor and put the speed at 20knts,
cruise at 16@6600 while packing destroyer guns.
and wound up with 13 AC
For me, I'm thinking its suspicious that
I can't recall any actual small carriers like this.
...beyond wartime expediency escort carriers.
Even the smallest CVE are substantially larger.
This flat deck is good for catapulting 6 seaplanes or 6 protection fighters.
Landing prohibited!!!
Eh, you might pull off landing biplanes if you have a good headwind and she's going flat out
QuoteEh, you might pull off landing biplanes if you have a good headwind and she's going flat out
Catapulted fighters could land on a real aircraft carrier or land.
Actually with 120m clear deck should be fine that way, particularly with bi-planes.
As noted under my carrier offerings the USN when considering flight deck cruisers,
Friedmans says a clear flight deck of at least 234ft was desired.
Now that was for mid-20s designs, and equates to 71.3m
I think HMS Vindictive is illustrative though as she did operate against the Red Russians- From Wikie:
a 78 by 49 feet (23.8 by 14.9 m) hangar with a capacity for six reconnaissance aircraft. The hangar roof, with a small extension, formed the 106-foot (32 m) flying-off deck. The aircraft were hoisted up through a hatch at the aft end of the flying-off deck by two derricks. The 193 by 57 feet (58.8 by 17.4 m) landing deck required the removal of Nos. 5 and 6 7.5-inch guns and moving the four 3-inch AA guns to an elevated platform between the funnels, in lieu of the 3-inch guns intended for that position.[10] A port side gangway 8 feet (2.4 m) wide connected the landing and flying-off decks to allow aircraft with their wings folded to be wheeled from one to the other.
I may have posted this already in an earlier form.
This would be a shallow-draft light monitor/gunship/whatever intended to provide a dedicated shore bombardment function to an amphibious landing. In peace time, it would probably make a useful gunnery training vessel.
Operationally we might see something of this ilk around the canal zone - or in the Canal Zone, if things got pear-shaped. The draft would also allow operations a fair distance up the major South American river network if that proved necessary. Probably a bit deep to penetrate far into the [Niger].
There are two two-gun 150mm turrets as the primary weapon, and their placement on raised fore/aft decks ensures that there are four decks under the turrets to accommodate the barbettes. The ship's draft only allows for one deck below water, after all.
A lone twin 100mm and torpedo nets provide protection against torpedo craft, but the AA battery is pretty heavy for the size. Protection is primarily about resisting contemporary land-based artillery in the <100mm range rather than scrapping with enemy cruisers.
The prominent upperworks would allow for decent spotting of fire if no land or sea-based aircraft are available to call shots. I find the final product to be kind of a throwback to pre-dread designs and find it oddly pleasing.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924
Displacement:
1,891 t light; 2,020 t standard; 2,099 t normal; 2,161 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(274.55 ft / 262.47 ft) x 52.49 ft x (8.20 / 8.41 ft)
(83.68 m / 80.00 m) x 16.00 m x (2.50 / 2.56 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline amidships (forward deck)
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mount, 1924 Model
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 35.36lbs / 16.04kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 619 lbs / 281 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 170.60 ft / 52.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 2,145 shp / 1,600 Kw = 14.14 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 141 tons
Complement:
154 - 201
Cost:
£0.409 million / $1.634 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 171 tons, 8.2 %
Armour: 386 tons, 18.4 %
- Belts: 91 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 94 tons, 4.5 %
- Armour Deck: 194 tons, 9.2 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 71 tons, 3.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,086 tons, 51.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 208 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 177 tons, 8.4 %
- Hull below water: 40 tons
- Hull above water: 80 tons
- On freeboard deck: 27 tons
- Above deck: 30 tons
Fittings:
-40 t: T-E machinery BW
-80 t: Torpedo nets AW
-10 t: Extra S/R wireless AD
-18 t: 1918 Fire control AD
-29 t: Weight reserve mostly FD
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,232 lbs / 5,095 Kg = 109.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 20.47 ft / 6.24 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 45.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 308.4 %
Waterplane Area: 10,555 Square feet or 981 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 169 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 364 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.80
- Longitudinal: 6.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Perhaps have more misc weight in reserve to transport troops, weapons or equipment.
I would say more for troops etc. Agree with Jef.
I'd also say I would worry about such a ship in the Canal Zone if things went Pear Shaped....Maya 2.0. I don't see it surviving for long against what their naval and air forces can bring to bear today. Unfortunately, to contain that power, more top shelf equipment is required.
Noted on survivability.
Can't say I'm enthused about adding troop capacity. It's a gunnery platform. Anyway.
Refit of the Angstrom-class battleships:
-Add 1918 FC but just one set, not two.
-Add LR and a second SR radio. Can't believe I didn't have a LR set the first time.
-Replace 100mm, 50mm and 10mm batteries with 100mm AA and 15mm MG
-Add torpedo nets
-Squeeze a floatplane and powder-cat in-between the funnels
-Cosmetic/Superstructure alterations
I estimate the cost at $0.62/0.575 BP. Will probably do two units in 2/24 and the other two in 1925.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1913
Displacement:
27,006 t light; 28,453 t standard; 30,005 t normal; 31,247 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(662.78 ft / 651.25 ft) x 95.14 ft x (28.25 / 29.21 ft)
(202.02 m / 198.50 m) x 29.00 m x (8.61 / 8.90 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,319.35lbs / 598.45kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
1 x Triple mount on centreline, forward deck forward
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1913 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
6 x Twin mounts on side ends, majority forward
6 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,203 lbs / 5,989 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 227.79 ft / 69.43 m 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.95" / 75 mm 423.10 ft / 128.96 m 26.64 ft / 8.12 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 3.54" / 90 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 75,068 shp / 56,000 Kw = 25.84 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,794 tons
Complement:
1,139 - 1,481
Cost:
£2.758 million / $11.033 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,238 tons, 7.5 %
Armour: 10,159 tons, 33.9 %
- Belts: 3,241 tons, 10.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,231 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 2,498 tons, 8.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,902 tons, 9.7 %
- Conning Tower: 287 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,942 tons, 9.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,789 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,999 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 879 tons, 2.9 %
- Hull above water: 199 tons
- On freeboard deck: 230 tons
- Above deck: 450 tons
Fittings:
-224 t: 1918 Fire Control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: S/R wireless back-up (AD)
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-30 t: Armed Floatplane and gunpowder catapult (AD)
-200 t: Flag facilities (AD/FD)
-199 t: Torpedo Nets (AW)
-196 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43,962 lbs / 19,941 Kg = 33.6 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.84 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.52 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.22 ft / 8.60 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.44 ft / 6.54 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.0 %
Waterplane Area: 45,318 Square feet or 4,210 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 184 lbs/sq ft or 898 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.59
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Capital ship upgrades, primarily so I don't lose track of the list:
1921: Wspanialy class battleships, basic refurb
1922/3: Nieuguety class battleships, substantive refurb
1924: Grenadjar class armored cruises, basic refurb
1924-5: Angstrom class battleships, refit
1925-6: Lucznick class armored cruisers, substantive refurb
1925-6: Wrogi class battleships, basic refurb
1926: Szermierz class armored cruisers, refit
Refit: +new FC, new AA. Torpedo nets and aircraft if appropriate and practical. Possible superstructure adjustments
Basic Refurb: +Change bunkerage to oil-firing
Substantive Refurb: +New machinery
Lesson learned from the World Cruise: Get some decent depot ships fer cryin' out loud. With some legs and some speed and enough guns to make a decent showing of defence.
So this big bad boy can basically support a modern capital ship, light cruiser, and four torpedo-boats, or some other combo of vessels, for a long, long time.
My H2/1924 report might be using a slightly different light displacement for the lead unit, which I'll fix if necessary for 1/25.
Home Depot, laid down 1924
Displacement:
8,972 t light; 9,232 t standard; 10,118 t normal; 10,827 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(390.76 ft / 380.58 ft) x 62.34 ft x (22.97 / 24.33 ft)
(119.10 m / 116.00 m) x 19.00 m x (7.00 / 7.42 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 395 lbs / 179 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 12,064 shp / 9,000 Kw = 18.23 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,595 tons
Complement:
503 - 655
Cost:
£1.241 million / $4.965 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 96 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 47 tons, 0.5 %
- Armament: 47 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 397 tons, 3.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,359 tons, 23.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,146 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6,073 tons, 60.0 %
- Hull below water: 2,219 tons
- Hull above water: 2,116 tons
- On freeboard deck: 1,138 tons
- Above deck: 600 tons
Fittings:
-219 t: T-E machinery (BW)
-116 t: Torpedo nets (AW)
-100 t: Cargo handling gear (FD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-113 t: Weight reserve (mostly AD)
-5,500 t: Supply/support for 55,000 t of warships (2/2/1/0.5 from bottom to top)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,185 lbs / 8,249 Kg = 271.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.657
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.86 ft / 9.10 m, 24.93 ft / 7.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 24.93 ft / 7.60 m, 24.93 ft / 7.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Average freeboard: 21.78 ft / 6.64 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.6 %
Waterplane Area: 18,174 Square feet or 1,688 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 401 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 2.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Lucznik before and after her impending 1925 refurbishment.
The main battery layout poses a significant challenge to adding fittings and the solution is that most of it has to be above the main battery.
The new 4" AA battery is two decks up, the 15mm twin MGs are on centreline turret roofs and in superstructure, and the aircraft cats are on top of the amidships turrets. They're a bit shorter than others I've drawn in order to (theoretically) allow the turrets to train in their usual arcs without bashing catapults into funnels.
The cranes and boats really should've been in the top image but whatever. The cranes are likely close to the funnel to limit their impact on firing arcs, and the boats would probably be landed or tossed overboard if there's a serious expectation that the guns are going to blow them to splinters during a battle or shoot-ex.
Similar challenges will be encountered when refurbishing the Wrogi class battleships a little later. They might even be worse.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 29, 2023, 05:55:13 PM
Fittings:
-219 t: T-E machinery (BW)
-116 t: Torpedo nets (AW)
-100 t: Cargo handling gear (FD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-113 t: Weight reserve (mostly AD)
-5,500 t: Supply/support for 55,000 t of warships (2/2/1/0.5 from bottom to top)
Torpedo nets? Does this mean Parthia is at the vanguard of retro-ship fashion ?
On the T-E, the way Ship design is set up, there's 2 'costs' - one for the TE the other for the Diesel.
It would be appreciated if the Misc wt. 'payments' were accounted for separately.
Quote
Electric Drives: Take an additional 25% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 15% bonus to range plus improved compartmentalization (effects number of torpedo hits to sink)
Hydraulic Drives: Takes an additional 10% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 5% bonus to range.
Geared Drives: Provides a 10% bonus to range.
Diesel Engines: Diesel engines can be used as part of mixed drive units or standalone power. Takes an additional 30% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 75% bonus to range. Can be combined with Electric, Hydraulic or Geared drives (Bonus and penalties stack).
Torpedo nets are the in-thing, baby.
To clarify, the engine notation is the sum of diesel and electric drive costs but not accurately labeled as such. You prefer seperate listings for each of diesel and electric?
It would help avoid the question reoccuring :)
The 1925 light cruiser is just the 1923 light cruiser with slightly more efficient machinery, heavier AA armament, and improved aviation facilities. This has required some shifting around of fittings amidships to accommodate the hangers on either side of the aft funnel and the additional AA gun on either side of the forward superstructure.
Given that there were three of the Rhein class and the Union likes to build in pairs, a run of three or five is anticipated for this type.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
7,919 t light; 8,246 t standard; 9,142 t normal; 9,859 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(592.02 ft / 577.43 ft) x 57.74 ft x (21.33 / 22.51 ft)
(180.45 m / 176.00 m) x 17.60 m x (6.50 / 6.86 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Single mounts on side ends, majority aft
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,017 lbs / 461 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 390.42 ft / 119.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 79,089 shp / 59,000 Kw = 32.03 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,613 tons
Complement:
466 - 607
Cost:
£2.371 million / $9.483 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 272 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 1,593 tons, 17.4 %
- Belts: 920 tons, 10.1 %
- Armament: 249 tons, 2.7 %
- Armour Deck: 390 tons, 4.3 %
- Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,568 tons, 28.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,163 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,223 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 323 tons, 3.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 173 tons
- Above deck: 150 tons
Fittings:
-28 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-50 t: Command facilities (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-55 t: 2 armed floatplane and catapult (w/hangers beside aft funnel (FD)
-32 t: 2x4 530mm torpedos (no reloads) (FD)
-108 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,050 lbs / 4,559 Kg = 97.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.57 ft / 8.10 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 18.11 ft / 5.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.4 %
Waterplane Area: 21,268 Square feet or 1,976 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 466 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.32
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Pic, with 1923 above and 1925 below.
I'll fix the AA gun placement later - drawing is correct, sim is incorrect with regard to 4" placement.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on February 05, 2023, 09:21:10 AM
Given that there were three of the Rhein class and the Union likes to build in pairs, a run of three or five is anticipated for this type.
What !
Consistency ?
What have we come to ?
Quite fast though, I don't have anything that fast.....which means I'm loosing !
The comparables would be the Norse Valkyrie class, which is smaller and slower, and the Roman Isca which is slower and slightly worse protected, but matches the Aztec/Parthian/Byzantine 180-19 range.
Deck armor vs longer ranges, or even splinters would be my concern.
Ages ago some guidelines for splinters got put under the artillery research page - 1/6 diameter, which means the 25mm might be lacking if foes have over 150mm.
Deck armor is definitely the weak point. I suppose I could use some weight reserve and shave the belt length to bump it up to 30mm. Did the same with the main battery turret roofs.
Speed's need to ride herd on the fast capital ships. I ran some range calculations and included them at the bottom of the report.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
7,919 t light; 8,246 t standard; 9,142 t normal; 9,859 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(592.02 ft / 577.43 ft) x 57.74 ft x (21.33 / 22.51 ft)
(180.45 m / 176.00 m) x 17.60 m x (6.50 / 6.86 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,017 lbs / 461 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 383.86 ft / 117.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 79,089 shp / 59,000 Kw = 32.03 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,613 tons
Complement:
466 - 607
Cost:
£2.371 million / $9.483 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 272 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 1,665 tons, 18.2 %
- Belts: 907 tons, 9.9 %
- Armament: 255 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 468 tons, 5.1 %
- Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,568 tons, 28.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,166 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,223 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 249 tons, 2.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 109 tons
- Above deck: 140 tons
Fittings:
-28 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-50 t: Command facilities (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-55 t: 2 armed floatplane and catapult (w/hangers beside aft funnel (FD)
-32 t: 2x4 530mm torpedos (no reloads) (FD)
-34 t: Weight reserve (mostly AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,119 lbs / 4,590 Kg = 98.3 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.57 ft / 8.10 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 18.11 ft / 5.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.4 %
Waterplane Area: 21,268 Square feet or 1,976 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 467 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
960nm @ 32 kts
1170nm @ 30 kts
1960nm @ 25 kts
3510nm @ 20 kts
6930nm @ 15 kts
Cool, thanks for the range calcs.
I find when I wind up doing the wars, I presume the cruise speed is the cruise speed,
and so figure time on station and all that from there...in part because it's a real hassle
to sim the hull and try to find the adjusted range.
So seeing the 'options' is helpful :)
I might run a few different ships and see if there's a reliable pattern to identify.
A smaller, cheaper, unarmored carrier...I suppose a sea control ship, not that there's much controlling going on. The basic requirement is to provide some surface ships with basic air support - a half-dozen fighters for local protection, and a half-dozen scout-bombers for eyeballing the area around the surface ships. The expected environment is the mid-Atlantic, so open water and decent weather compared to the North Atlantic or North Sea.
It's a quantity > quality argument in this case, having basic aviation capability in a number of places versus the much greater individual capability of a ship twice the size.
The flight deck is CVE-sized so it can handle anything likely to be in service during its career, and the speed will help get things launched and recovered. Weight allows for twelve aircraft at all stages of the expected service life.
Protection is virtually nil; a bit of protection for the folks operating the ship and a box around the boom. AA armament is reasonable for time and period, while the anti-surface defence is a sternchaser to plunk at destroyers and lighter stuff while running away. In theory the carrier would be operating with cruisers or capital ships anyway, and they should be dealing with that sort of thing.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
6,998 t light; 7,198 t standard; 8,064 t normal; 8,757 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(501.08 ft / 485.56 ft) x 59.06 ft x (19.69 / 20.95 ft)
(152.73 m / 148.00 m) x 18.00 m x (6.00 / 6.39 m)
Armament:
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mount, 1925 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 259 lbs / 118 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Box over magazines: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 64,344 shp / 48,000 Kw = 30.07 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,559 tons
Complement:
425 - 553
Cost:
£1.841 million / $7.365 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 71 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 80 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 32 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 39 tons, 0.5 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 2,089 tons, 25.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,383 tons, 42.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,066 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,375 tons, 17.1 %
- Hull below water: 570 tons
- Hull above water: 570 tons
- On freeboard deck: 35 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Fittings:
-1140 t: 14 or 12 aircraft, depending on the generation embarked
-25 t: Single catapult (FD)
-8 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-35 t: L/R and extra S/R wireless (AD)
-100 t: Flight operations and command facilities (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-42 t: Weight reserve (FD and AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,962 lbs / 5,879 Kg = 193.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.22 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 30.84 ft / 9.40 m, 30.84 ft / 9.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 30.84 ft / 9.40 m, 30.84 ft / 9.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 30.84 ft / 9.40 m, 30.84 ft / 9.40 m
- Average freeboard: 29.12 ft / 8.88 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 264.1 %
Waterplane Area: 19,105 Square feet or 1,775 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 409 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 5.96
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
With the early 20s prep and launch rates, I think that's mainly going to launch a handful of scouts. Which could be fine.
It's got half the airgroup of my 8500 ton ship, which was limited as it is.
As for defensive armanent, my carrier reading is limited, but I have read that at least in the USN,
because of limited plane ranges, the carriers were operating close up, and in wargames
could be caught by cruisers/DD. 30 knots is good, but by now you know the Norse Valkyrie
class is out there, and capable of 32 knots with 4x 155 bearing forward.
I do think folks have been spoiled by the good weather that has blessed battles to date.
In bad weather folks have mostly missed engaging since the effective search ranges contract.
I admit it's hard to keep track of NPCs on account of them being quiet.
While I like the idea of the ship, I'm probably sticking to the ~10,000 t range when I actually build.
A floatplane-carrying sloop for escort and patrol duties.
The armored box over the explode-y parts is expensive, and maybe not useful. The weight could instead go towards extending freeboard aft and expanding the hanger to accommodate another two planes, which is not obviously impractical given the beam amidships.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
2,425 t light; 2,540 t standard; 2,971 t normal; 3,316 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(408.86 ft / 396.98 ft) x 42.65 ft x (12.80 / 13.89 ft)
(124.62 m / 121.00 m) x 13.00 m x (3.90 / 4.23 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 333 lbs / 151 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Box over machinery & magazines: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,470 shp / 19,000 Kw = 27.48 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 776 tons
Complement:
200 - 261
Cost:
£0.752 million / $3.007 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 85 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 365 tons, 12.3 %
- Armament: 41 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 315 tons, 10.6 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 827 tons, 27.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 893 tons, 30.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 546 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 255 tons, 8.6 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 130 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: Enhanced Hydrophone Package and Sonar (BW)
-55 t: 2 x armed floatplanes and one gunpowder catapult (FD)
-24 t: 2x3 530mm torpedo carriages (FD)
-15 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-9 t: Fire control (AD)
-50 t: Command facilities for escort group (AD)
-36t + 6 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,119 lbs / 1,415 Kg = 46.5 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.494
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.31 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Average freeboard: 15.94 ft / 4.86 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.4 %
Waterplane Area: 11,080 Square feet or 1,029 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 50 lbs/sq ft or 245 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.69
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 0.75
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
The 1925 carrier is getting larger. The picture doesn't change a lot because the length remained constant, but there are some differences in armament disposition, etc.
The big difference in capability is extra speed. An aft belt provides splinter protection for the stern, which is perhaps relevant as the general expectation will be that the ship will turn away from a surface encounter.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
10,997 t light; 11,322 t standard; 12,452 t normal; 13,355 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(545.08 ft / 529.20 ft) x 75.79 ft x (22.64 / 23.84 ft)
(166.14 m / 161.30 m) x 23.10 m x (6.90 / 7.27 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck centre
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 530 lbs / 240 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 371.72 ft / 113.30 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 78.74 ft / 24.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
78.74 ft / 24.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 107,238 shp / 80,000 Kw = 32.04 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,033 tons
Complement:
589 - 766
Cost:
£3.003 million / $12.010 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 133 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 1,118 tons, 9.0 %
- Belts: 585 tons, 4.7 %
- Armament: 51 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 482 tons, 3.9 %
Machinery: 3,482 tons, 28.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,550 tons, 36.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,455 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,714 tons, 13.8 %
- Hull below water: 732 tons
- Hull above water: 720 tons
- On freeboard deck: 112 tons
- Above deck: 150 tons
Fittings:
-12 t: 4x lightweight 530mm torpedo tubes, fixed astern (BW)
-1440 t: 18 or 15 aircraft, depending on the vintage (BW/AW)
-25 t: Hydraulic catapult, starboard bow (FD)
-100 t: Command and flight operations facilities (FD/AD)
-35 t: L/R and extra S/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-14 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-63 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,784 lbs / 7,613 Kg = 250.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.489
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 28.78 ft / 8.77 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 250.6 %
Waterplane Area: 26,247 Square feet or 2,438 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 503 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.87
- Longitudinal: 3.39
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
The Patowmeck class cruisers are odd ducks, with a transitional, mixed main battery of 130mm guns (without hoists) and 100mm guns. It makes for an underwhelming broadside that is difficult to manage with contemporary fire control practices.
A simple refit would allow for the replacement of the 130mm guns with additional 100mm guns, giving a uniform but low-caliber battery. A refurbishment really wouldn't allow for useful replacement of the 100mm single mounts either. So it looks like we're going for an actual reconstruction in this case.
-Entirely new armament: $0.34 and 0.169 BP (note: Main battery is A-Q-Xs-Y)
-Armor for that new armament: $0.08 and 0.075 BP
-Replacement of all functional miscellaneous weight: $0.18 and 0.181 BP
-The bunkerage is converted to all-oil and slightly enlarged, and magazines enlarged/re-arranged: $0.43 and 0 BP
-Freeboard adjusted (bow now rises 1.2m to stem) and ship re-trimmed: $0.82 and 0 BP
-Generic reconstruction costs: $1.04 and 0.417 BP
-Also I'm removing the aft conning tower because for whatever reason, this version of SS doesn't account for its weight. But no cost there.
This works out to $2.89 and 0.842 BP in less than six months.
I've opted not to replace the machinery, given that the seakeeping wouldn't allow much of an increase in speed, and I'm satisfied with the existing deck/belt protection.
The end result is a decent escort for the first-generation dreadnoughts, which will primarily be operating in homewaters from 1926 onward.
Patowmeck reconstruction, laid down 1911 (reconstructed 1925/6)
Displacement:
4,072 t light; 4,261 t standard; 4,689 t normal; 5,031 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(447.08 ft / 442.91 ft) x 44.29 ft x (16.73 / 17.65 ft)
(136.27 m / 135.00 m) x 13.50 m x (5.10 / 5.38 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1911 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 665 lbs / 302 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 298.56 ft / 91.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 144.36 ft / 44.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Upper: 1.57" / 40 mm 287.89 ft / 87.75 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30,831 shp / 23,000 Kw = 27.19 kts
Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 770 tons
Complement:
283 - 368
Cost:
£0.376 million / $1.503 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 169 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 1,082 tons, 23.1 %
- Belts: 699 tons, 14.9 %
- Armament: 75 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 288 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,251 tons, 26.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,389 tons, 29.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 617 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 181 tons, 3.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 61 tons
- Above deck: 120 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,831 lbs / 2,191 Kg = 72.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 15.67 ft / 4.78 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.5 %
Waterplane Area: 13,070 Square feet or 1,214 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 324 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.85
- Longitudinal: 1.37
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
The Type 1925 harbour patrol boat abandons the previous use of reciprocating machinery for a small, nifty diesel-electric drive that should make for responsive handling in the Union's busy harbours. Speed, range, and seakeeping should be adequate for an eight or twelve hour shift amongst typical slow mercantile traffic.
The armament remains very minimal, with no protection - the general assumption remains that these ships are, in the worst case, going to be dealing with unlawful civilians who will back down from a small cannon and a couple machine guns pointed their way. The aft machine gun has been moved up from the aft deck, allowing davits and a couple of small boats to be carried aft for boarding, search and rescue, or whatever.
Some capacity for cargo or passengers, such as law enforcement personnel, is provided for in the cabin.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
47 t light; 48 t standard; 49 t normal; 50 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(89.06 ft / 85.30 ft) x 13.12 ft x (2.95 / 2.98 ft)
(27.15 m / 26.00 m) x 4.00 m x (0.90 / 0.91 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1925 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline forward
3 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
1 x Single mount on sides, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 402 shp / 300 Kw = 15.30 kts
Range 200nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 tons
Complement:
9 - 12
Cost:
£0.012 million / $0.049 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 1.9 %
Machinery: 13 tons, 26.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 20 tons, 40.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 tons, 5.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 13 tons, 26.5 %
- Hull below water: 7 tons
- On freeboard deck: 5 tons
- Above deck: 1 tons
Fittings:
-7 t: D-E machinery, BW
-5 t: Cargo or passengers, FD
-1 t: Searchlight, AD
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
70 lbs / 32 Kg = 18.4 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 9.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.521
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 9.24 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.97 ft / 0.60 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Average freeboard: 6.98 ft / 2.13 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.1 %
Waterplane Area: 760 Square feet or 71 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 12 lbs/sq ft or 60 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.59
- Longitudinal: 9.56
- Overall: 0.78
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I'm kind of the opinion that if you've you've a dedicated harbor defense boat, add the tonnage to toss a basic hydrophone package and a couple tons of depth charges. Not enough to sub hunt, but enough to deter submarines. Plus, hydrophones are the most likely tool to detect torpedo boats at night.
Fair points and worth further tinkering.
At 47 tons, there's not much room for expansion.
Trying to cram more multi-use capacity into what started as a coast guard vessel with a primary 'sentry' role
is how my Sentry class ballooned :)
On the other hand I now have a fairly capable coast guard force.
I'd need to beef it up to around 55t and maybe build it to military specifications rather than mercantile, but it is doable.
But think, if you put a cage mast on it, you can extend the sighting distance to be equal of a battleship- for the low low cost of 23 tons !
And then, in some weather, a Kite Balloon would make sense, only another 25 tons !
Don't forget enhanced hydrophones can pick up screws a little over the horizon sometimes, ...
and then you'll want some "Y" throwers for those DCs to make a proper pattern.
and more speed so you can catch a surfaced sub,
and then ....
and then ....
Don't tempt me, man, I'm on cold meds and susceptible to odd notions.
Dammit, Kirk.
This is notionally a civilian build based on a large sea-going barge. Anchor it somewhere - on the periphery of an amphibious landing, in a strait, something like that. Set out the torpedo nets. Deploy and support any attached torpedo-boats. Look for bad guys.
The floor of the observation cupola atop the cage mast is, by my reckoning, 72' feet above sea level, and the barge's steadiness should allow for good spotting of threats at reasonable distances.
Edit: Distance to the horizon is around 10.5 miles or 23,000 yards, according to a website.
Hydrophones for listening for threats, spotlights to light stuff up, enough capacity to tend and resupply a handful of MTBs in a tender capacity (there's a small cut-out on each side of the hull for tying up a couple MTBs.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
940 t light; 967 t standard; 1,017 t normal; 1,057 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(169.15 ft / 164.04 ft) x 39.37 ft x (7.87 / 8.15 ft)
(51.56 m / 50.00 m) x 12.00 m x (2.40 / 2.48 m)
Armament:
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
3 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 38 lbs / 17 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 1,340 shp / 1,000 Kw = 13.44 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 91 tons
Complement:
89 - 117
Cost:
£0.135 million / $0.539 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 8 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 11 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 44 tons, 4.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 377 tons, 37.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 77 tons, 7.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 49.2 %
- Hull below water: 140 tons
- Hull above water: 140 tons
- On freeboard deck: 20 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Fittings:
-25t: D-E machinery (BW)
-15t: Enhanced Hydrophone Package (BW)
-100 t: Supplies and support for attached patrol craft (BW)
-50 t: Torpedo nets (AW)
-20 t: Additional sea anchors and supports (AW)
-70 t: Support facilities for attached patrol craft (AW)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-1 t: Fire control (AD)
-10 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-150 t: Cage Mast (AD)
-106 t: Weight reserve (FD, AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,585 lbs / 2,080 Kg = 356.2 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.703
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Quarter deck: 40.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 17.64 ft / 5.38 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 47.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 218.1 %
Waterplane Area: 5,176 Square feet or 481 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 164 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 44 lbs/sq ft or 213 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.76
- Longitudinal: 11.82
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
And now I need one of those as well...
'If you're evil and you know it, clap your hands '
*clap* *clap*
.. I have a link somewhere to a discussion on cage mast weights, which is where I got the 23 tons for that fitted to USS Texas.
The 150 would be appropriate for a DN scale tripod.
While I'm sure the 23 t was based on factual data, I couldn't help but think it was kind of low for a structure that size, even if it was mostly hollow.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2022/february/great-idea-defeated-physics
Mentions 20 t for a cage versus 90 for a tripod. Apparently cages were more susceptible to vibrations and shocks (fast ships with big guns) than tripods, which I did not know. Not that it's an issue on this particular design; in fact, it's probably an intentional design consideration and not just me blindly responding to Kirk's challenge.
The article I was speaking about is :
http://www.gwpda.org/naval/cagvtrip.htm (http://www.gwpda.org/naval/cagvtrip.htm)
Vibration in this document appears to be a toss up, varying by vessel.
My understanding is that as FC became heavier, the acceptable vibration and whip
in cages masts increased, and so they wound up replaced eventually,
but this report was apparently after, and perhaps in response to the failure of USS Michigan's masts in a hurricane.
But as you say - not an issue here.
20 vs 23 tons... the section below gives 23 tons, but that "contemplates" light plating... which I take to mean it wasn't yet fitted. So 20 might be the initial weight.
The pertinent portion is :
Weight. - The comparison of weight given on page 5, enclosure (B) [not reproduced], is from the latest information available as regards the wieght of the foremast on H.M.S. HOOD. No absolutely accurate weights are available, but it can be safely said that the totoal weight of the tripod mast, including struts, mast, topmast, spotters' tops, defense, platform, etc., but not including the decks below the searchlight platform, os at least 100 tons. The increase in the size of the spotters' top, due to increasing the size of the range finders, increasing the diameter of the struts, and making the revolving hood for the 15" rangefinder and 15" director tower power-driven.
The total weight of about 23 tons for a single cage-mast for Battleships 49 to 51 given on page 5 of enclosure (B) [not reproduced], contemplates light plating for the sides of the spotters' top and director tower. For special treatment steel side plating the total weight would be increased about 4 tons. This weight provides for 3" x 1/4" tube, whereas in the old design of cage-mast the tube was 3" x 1/8".
Hurricanes are one reason for my decision to go queen Anne mansions. Because while it creates more sail area, it encases much of the superstructure in a weather protected box, and it has plenty of structural rigidity.
My little tub would certainly not be popular during a hurricane.
The discussion does touch on Michagan's and says that the safety factor on those masts had been reduced from 2.0 to nil,
though it's not made clear if that was a maintenance issue, or an added weight issue or both, but that failure
was not viewed as cause for alarm.
Plus in a hurricane, one could argue the more weight high above the deck, the worse, so a 100 ton structure may not be better.
Interesting little side jaunt.
Maybe I'll assign a couple tonnes to pyrotechnic bolts that eject the entire cage mast in case of emerg...never mind.
Alternate take on the harbour patrol boat. Most significantly, it's got a bit of protection, and that means it's mil-spec and not mercantile construction. So full cost, whereas previous builds have all been cheap and mercantile.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
55 t light; 57 t standard; 58 t normal; 59 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(82.12 ft / 78.74 ft) x 13.12 ft x (3.94 / 3.98 ft)
(25.03 m / 24.00 m) x 4.00 m x (1.20 / 1.21 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1925 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.79" / 20 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 402 shp / 300 Kw = 14.78 kts
Range 300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 tons
Complement:
9 - 13
Cost:
£0.013 million / $0.053 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 3 tons, 5.6 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 5.2 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 13 tons, 22.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18 tons, 31.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 tons, 5.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 19 tons, 33.0 %
- Hull below water: 12 tons
- On freeboard deck: 6 tons
- Above deck: 1 tons
Fittings:
-7 t: D-E drive, BW
-5 t: Basic Hydrophone Paackage, BW
-2-4 t: Depth charges, FD
-2-4 t: Passengers or deck cargo, FD
-1 t: Searchlight, AD
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
72 lbs / 33 Kg = 18.9 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 9.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.502
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 8.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Average freeboard: 6.65 ft / 2.03 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.5 %
Waterplane Area: 688 Square feet or 64 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 13 lbs/sq ft or 63 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.58
- Longitudinal: 8.57
- Overall: 0.76
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on March 09, 2023, 01:42:25 PM
Alternate take on the harbour patrol boat. Most significantly, it's got a bit of protection, and that means it's mil-spec and not mercantile construction. So full cost, whereas previous builds have all been cheap and mercantile.
Good amount of things crammed in there.
Hmm now I have to go back and look at my little 60ton river gunboat and see where we differ. I'm guessing you are much faster.
I am annoyed with myself, I forgot to research diesels and so am doing so now, but my diesel designs have to wait.
...hmm that was easy to find... top of page 20 of my design thread.
So, yes you are much faster. I designed mine so 2 can be built in a 50m dock (20+10+20) which makes them round...err tubby.
15mm vs. 20mm armor, oil-sprayed coal fired turbo-electric, so room to rebuild with diesel. Much heavier gun armed as it's meant to be a mil-spec river gunboat,
not harbor patrol.
Curious to see two microvessels, I haven't done much in that size class since my original 60t steam torpedo boats.
I've found that I usually have a bunch of larger slips available and can just allocate three to a 100m dock and meet my needs most of the time. The current use of individual 50m slips is because I'm pausing MTB builds.
The HPBs can and probably do have a secondary riverine role, but I have a large number of dedicated riverboats in the 80-140 t range and I'm considering options for replacing them with something in that same size range.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on March 09, 2023, 11:11:31 AM
The discussion does touch on Michagan's and says that the safety factor on those masts had been reduced from 2.0 to nil,
though it's not made clear if that was a maintenance issue, or an added weight issue or both, but that failure
was not viewed as cause for alarm.
Plus in a hurricane, one could argue the more weight high above the deck, the worse, so a 100 ton structure may not be better.
Interesting little side jaunt.
The other thing with the Michigan is that it's an SC Class. The USN wanted to build a Dreadnought, but Congress (damn them) had restricted cost/tonnage to be no more than the previous Pre-Dread class. So they had to build a Dreadnought on a shoestring......which meant they went for the absolute minimums on anything that wasn't an absolutely vital system.
Possible "baseline" armored river gunboat that could replace similar sized hulls from the 1890s.
I contemplated a shorter 15mm belt combined with a 20mm box as protection, but opted to go with the more conventional 20mm belt and full deck. The notion is more about protecting the waterline and the important bits from splinters and small arms fire than from direct shell hits.
Also contemplated trying to shove a 50mm AA mounting in but that isn't practical if I want to keep the size down. The two twin HMG mountings will have to do that job.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
80 t light; 87 t standard; 88 t normal; 89 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(101.96 ft / 98.43 ft) x 16.40 ft x (3.61 / 3.65 ft)
(31.08 m / 30.00 m) x 5.00 m x (1.10 / 1.11 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 12.34lbs / 5.60kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 26 lbs / 12 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 62.34 ft / 19.00 m 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 0.79" / 20 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.79" / 20 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 301 shp / 225 Kw = 13.27 kts
Range 300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3 tons
Complement:
13 - 18
Cost:
£0.019 million / $0.077 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 36 tons, 40.3 %
- Belts: 11 tons, 12.1 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 10.2 %
- Armour Deck: 16 tons, 17.7 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 10 tons, 10.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 24 tons, 27.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8 tons, 8.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 6.8 %
- Hull below water: 3 tons
- On freeboard deck: 1 tons
- Above deck: 2 tons
Fittings:
-3t: Diesel engines (BW)
-1 t: Weight reserve/deck cargo (FD)
-1 t: FC, such as it is (AD)
-1 t: Searchlight (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
177 lbs / 80 Kg = 13.7 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 9.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 9.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.97 ft / 0.60 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Average freeboard: 5.48 ft / 1.67 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 83.2 %
Waterplane Area: 1,106 Square feet or 103 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 17 lbs/sq ft or 82 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.67
- Longitudinal: 2.12
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
I'm a bit confused as to the 75mm breechloader and the 75mm quick fire.
I completely agree that you don't need a heavy AA suite on a boat like this.
My thoughts, skip having two 3in guns that are slightly different. And go with a single larger gun. This is a riverboat, a lot of its job will be supporting troops. The boat means it can easily carry artillery you can't haul around off road. It also means you have a gun that'll fire more rapidly than a field gun, and will fire with more precision than a field gun, and with more endurance given the depth of the boat's magazine.
Whoops. The 40cal breechloader is a howitzer deal. Yeah, the barrel should be shorter, but that's what I specified at startup and haven't developed one since.
Broke: Sverige with 4x11" guns
Woke: Sverige with 4x17.7" guns
Misc. weight is mainly fire control, command facilities, and the usual wireless/searchlight fightings. There's weight for a plane on deck but I have doubts that there's deckspace for it.
Note that I haven't settled on the weight of the 450mm shell just yet, so it could get heavier. That's the default there.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
18,892 t light; 20,092 t standard; 21,504 t normal; 22,633 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(489.84 ft / 485.56 ft) x 98.43 ft x (26.25 / 27.38 ft)
(149.30 m / 148.00 m) x 30.00 m x (8.00 / 8.34 m)
Armament:
4 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,804.10lbs / 1,271.92kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,232 lbs / 5,548 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.48" / 190 mm 315.62 ft / 96.20 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 315.62 ft / 96.20 m 24.74 ft / 7.54 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 3.94" / 100 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,043 shp / 33,602 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,541 tons
Complement:
887 - 1,154
Cost:
£6.894 million / $27.576 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,393 tons, 11.1 %
Armour: 6,741 tons, 31.3 %
- Belts: 1,766 tons, 8.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 455 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 2,115 tons, 9.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,339 tons, 10.9 %
- Conning Tower: 66 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,442 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,817 tons, 36.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,611 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 2.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 400 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,334 lbs / 14,667 Kg = 11.6 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.605
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.25 ft / 7.39 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.05 ft / 6.11 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.8 %
Waterplane Area: 34,954 Square feet or 3,247 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 925 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.49
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
It's interesting.
Even with aerial spotting, Fire control may be a challenge - 4 barrels, lower ROF will place real limits.
Belts decent, deck is good, not great...guessing meant to be single not multiple.
Why is there no "beam between bulkheads" ?
Forgot to tick that box, which is weird because I thought it used to give me warnings there.
It's a single deck, yes.
Used as a heavy monitor. Receiving a 1250 kg prune is not a gift for a cruiser.
The Union isn't certain it needs or even wants a 450mm gun. Cost-wise, a capital ship capable of carrying eight such guns would likely exceed 45,000 t (=$$$) and require lengthening of existing docks to construct. It might not be possible to fit a three-gun mount on a ship capable of using the Trans-Eryka Canal. The blast effects of the guns might be difficult to compensate for - the existing 400mm weapons are already quite disruptive as it is.
But it's still possible somebody else will field something of this size, so the prudent thing to do is to get a gun on a ship and see how it works so the option is available. This particular platform embarks a single weapon for this purpose.
The hull and turret are protected against realistic shore-based artillery and light naval threats. There are decent anti-surface and anti-air batteries for her size, with the assumption that she'll have escorts supporting her if she's out and about. There was a temptation to install some light AA on the ample forecastle ahead of the gun, but everybody agreed the stuff might just get blown clean off the first time the gun fires ahead.
From a functionality point of view, this ship would be of very limited anti-surface utility given that there's a single barrel lobbing at best two rounds a minute. On the other hand, the platform itself promises to be extremely steady. Between that, the likely range of the gun, and the size of the projectiles, it could be a fairly fearsome shore bombardment tool.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
8,086 t light; 8,483 t standard; 9,369 t normal; 10,077 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(402.56 ft / 393.70 ft) x 85.30 ft x (15.75 / 16.74 ft)
(122.70 m / 120.00 m) x 26.00 m x (4.80 / 5.10 m)
Armament:
1 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal gun - 2,976.24lbs / 1,350.00kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading gun in turret on barbette mount, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,371 lbs / 1,529 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 14.96 ft / 4.56 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 5.12" / 130 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 2.95" / 75 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 8,042 shp / 6,000 Kw = 16.35 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,594 tons
Complement:
475 - 618
Cost:
£2.116 million / $8.465 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 627 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 2,769 tons, 29.6 %
- Belts: 766 tons, 8.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 223 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 438 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,304 tons, 13.9 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 257 tons, 2.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,991 tons, 42.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,283 tons, 13.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 441 tons, 4.7 %
- Hull below water: 64 tons
- Hull above water: 120 tons
- On freeboard deck: 57 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Fittings:
-64 t: Electric motors (BW)
-120 t: Torpedo nets (AW)
-63 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-50 t: Command facilities (AD)
-94 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,424 lbs / 16,522 Kg = 13.1 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 9.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
Metacentric height 8.1 ft / 2.5 m
Roll period: 12.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.620 / 0.627
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.62 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.48 ft / 5.94 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 53.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 207.7 %
Waterplane Area: 25,024 Square feet or 2,325 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 144 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 651 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 2.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Having posted that, drawings of the Japanese 460mm gun indicate that I might need six full decks to accommodate the turret, whereas I've only provided for five here.
QuoteFrom a functionality point of view, this ship would be of very limited anti-surface utility given that there's a single barrel lobbing at best two rounds a minute. On the other hand, the platform itself promises to be extremely steady. Between that, the likely range of the gun, and the size of the projectiles, it could be a fairly fearsome shore bombardment tool.
Very useful vs a colony revolt.
My colonies love me and would never dream of revolting.
The 1926 coastal escort takes advantage of slightly lighter machinery and trades some hull strength and anti-surface punch for the addition of a sonar dome, a bit more oil, and a bit more miscellaneous weight.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
250 t light; 260 t standard; 281 t normal; 297 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(147.17 ft / 137.80 ft) x 19.69 ft x (7.87 / 8.20 ft)
(44.86 m / 42.00 m) x 6.00 m x (2.40 / 2.50 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 21 lbs / 10 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,948 shp / 2,200 Kw = 20.34 kts
Range 3,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 37 tons
Complement:
33 - 44
Cost:
£0.080 million / $0.321 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 5 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 5 tons, 1.6 %
Machinery: 94 tons, 33.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 105 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 30 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 42 tons, 15.0 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 16 tons
- Above deck: 1 tons
Fittings:
-15t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-10t: Sonar (BW)
-4t: 2x1 450mm torpedoes, fixed to fire just off the bows (FD)
-8t: ASW weapons (FD)
-2t: Nightfighting doodads (FD)
-2 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-1 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
241 lbs / 109 Kg = 18.7 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.467
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 12.80 ft / 3.90 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 12.80 ft / 3.90 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Average freeboard: 10.35 ft / 3.16 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95.3 %
Waterplane Area: 1,745 Square feet or 162 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 126 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.72
- Longitudinal: 9.75
- Overall: 0.93
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I was sure I had posted refurb specs for the Wrogi class battleships but apparently not. Anyway, there's nothing too dramatic here:
-Replace the secondary battery with QF guns
-Replace the tertiary anti-TB battery with AA guns and machine guns
-Add and move around miscellaneous weight for torpedo nets, FC, nightfighting, flag.
-Move to all oil-firing machinery
-Laminate another 30mm of armor on the forecastle.
The ship's deck plan doesn't reaaaaaally allow for floatplanes or more AA, unfortunately.
Note that the conning towers are actually 300mm/300mm, but this version of SS doesn't count the weight of the aft conning tower - so making the forward CT 600mm is a perfect fudge weight-wise. I originally wrote that sentence with three "Actually"s in it, you know.
Total cost of the refurb is estimated at $7.18 and 0.997 BP. It'll take about 8 months, so Wrogi will start in 2/25, Zwinny will follow in 1/26, and they'll both be out of service in Jan/Feb 1926.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1908
Displacement:
21,774 t light; 22,910 t standard; 24,692 t normal; 26,117 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(531.50 ft / 531.50 ft) x 91.86 ft x (27.23 / 28.56 ft)
(162.00 m / 162.00 m) x 28.00 m x (8.30 / 8.71 m)
Armament:
12 - 11.81" / 300 mm 45.0 cal guns - 830.84lbs / 376.86kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1908 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 x Triple mounts on sides amidships
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides amidships
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 200 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
6 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,238 lbs / 5,097 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 345.47 ft / 105.30 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 185.99 ft / 56.69 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 345.47 ft / 105.30 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 345.47 ft / 105.30 m 26.15 ft / 7.97 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 2.95" / 75 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 2.36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 11.81" / 300 mm
NOTE: Forward CT simmed as 600mm to properly include aft CT weight.
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 46,917 shp / 35,000 Kw = 22.98 kts
Range 10,700nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,207 tons
Complement:
984 - 1,280
Cost:
£2.086 million / $8.342 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,002 tons, 8.1 %
Armour: 9,057 tons, 36.7 %
- Belts: 3,664 tons, 14.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 658 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 2,321 tons, 9.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,982 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 432 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 2,370 tons, 9.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,694 tons, 31.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,918 tons, 11.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 651 tons, 2.6 %
- Hull below water: 50 tons
- Hull above water: 160 tons
- On freeboard deck: 90 tons
- Above deck: 351 tons
Fittings:
-50 t: Torpedo flat (BW)
-160 t: Torpedo nets (AW)
-90 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-201 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-100 t: Flag facilities (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,153 lbs / 16,852 Kg = 45.1 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 6.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 15.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.655
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.39 ft / 6.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.0 %
Waterplane Area: 37,403 Square feet or 3,475 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 800 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Warning: Date too early for anti-air gun - 3rd battery
A small river-monitor, intended to put a single 130mm gun in shallow water. Well, on shallow water. For the notion of smacking heavily fortified positions.
Or I could just wait for that 150mm howitzer to come along.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
204 t light; 215 t standard; 220 t normal; 224 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(149.43 ft / 144.36 ft) x 22.97 ft x (3.94 / 3.99 ft)
(45.55 m / 44.00 m) x 7.00 m x (1.20 / 1.22 m)
Armament:
1 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal gun - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck and hoist mount, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline forward
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 72 lbs / 33 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 49.21 ft / 15.00 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 95.11 ft / 28.99 m 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
Main Belt covers 52 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.59" / 15 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 335 shp / 250 Kw = 12.12 kts
Range 600nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8 tons
Complement:
28 - 37
Cost:
£0.053 million / $0.214 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 19 tons, 8.8 %
Armour: 76 tons, 34.4 %
- Belts: 38 tons, 17.1 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 7.1 %
- Armour Deck: 22 tons, 10.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 11 tons, 4.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 85 tons, 38.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 16 tons, 7.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 13 tons, 5.9 %
- Hull below water: 4 tons
- On freeboard deck: 6 tons
- Above deck: 3 tons
Fittings:
-4t: Diesels (BW)
-6t: Cargo/passengers/weight reserve (FD)
-2t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-1t: Searchlight (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
547 lbs / 248 Kg = 8.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.590 / 0.592
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 72
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.97 ft / 0.60 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Average freeboard: 5.28 ft / 1.61 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 48.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.1 %
Waterplane Area: 2,402 Square feet or 223 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 154 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.87
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
The opposite of a small river monitor is the Johan Gadolin class battleship, also known as The G-Man.
This is not quite the simple updating of the Johann Encke class that had originally been envisioned. Of note, there is more bunkerage, the armor belt is a full deck higher, and the secondary battery is a sextet of the new two-gun 150mm turrets also being installed on contemporary light cruisers. The hull is consequently a fair bit longer and a little bit higher than the Encke's.
The ship also has two small hangers to house a floatplane each, on either side of the aft funnel, and the superstructure has been updated to replace the somewhat open tripod mast of previous classes with an enclosed tower thingy. I might yet refine the look of that tower, as I'm not 100% happy with it, but you get the idea.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
44,100 t light; 46,177 t standard; 49,196 t normal; 51,611 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(765.58 ft / 748.03 ft) x 108.27 ft (Bulges 114.83 ft) x (30.84 / 32.20 ft)
(233.35 m / 228.00 m) x 33.00 m (Bulges 35.00 m) x (9.40 / 9.82 m)
Armament:
8 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
6 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority forward
8 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
6 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,368 lbs / 7,878 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 484.09 ft / 147.55 m 24.90 ft / 7.59 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 484.09 ft / 147.55 m 29.59 ft / 9.02 m
- Hull Bulges:
0.59" / 15 mm 456.36 ft / 139.10 m 29.20 ft / 8.90 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 4.72" / 120 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 5.51" / 140 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm Quarter deck: 5.51" / 140 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 15.75" / 400 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 119,303 shp / 89,000 Kw = 27.03 kts
Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,434 tons
Complement:
1,651 - 2,147
Cost:
£12.703 million / $50.813 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,538 tons, 7.2 %
Armour: 19,760 tons, 40.2 %
- Belts: 7,211 tons, 14.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,043 tons, 2.1 %
- Bulges: 291 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 4,543 tons, 9.2 %
- Armour Deck: 6,216 tons, 12.6 %
- Conning Tower: 456 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,819 tons, 7.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,960 tons, 32.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,096 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,023 tons, 2.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 473 tons
- Above deck: 550 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
87,167 lbs / 39,538 Kg = 44.6 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 15.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.51 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.18 ft / 9.20 m, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Average freeboard: 24.45 ft / 7.45 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.4 %
Waterplane Area: 62,041 Square feet or 5,764 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 994 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
13,800 nm @ 12 kts
8,400 nm @ 15 kts
4,200 nm @ 20 kts
1,700 nm @ 27 kts
I belatedly realized my 1924 U-class torpedo-boat only had 49.6% of normal weight assigned to machinery. Taking a razor-thin margin from a class two years earlier will do that when engine weights get lighter.
So I'm ret-conning just a bit. An additional 500 kw of machinery gets me over the hump, at the cost of two torpedoes, a bit of misc. weight, and some main battery protection.
Corrected U class torpedoboat, laid down 1924
Displacement:
1,885 t light; 1,974 t standard; 2,250 t normal; 2,471 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(388.70 ft / 377.30 ft) x 36.09 ft x (14.11 / 15.02 ft)
(118.48 m / 115.00 m) x 11.00 m x (4.30 / 4.58 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1924 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 302 lbs / 137 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,885 shp / 30,500 Kw = 32.38 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 497 tons
Complement:
163 - 212
Cost:
£0.778 million / $3.112 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 79 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 25 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,129 tons, 50.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 533 tons, 23.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 365 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 119 tons, 5.3 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 49 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Fittings:
-8 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-24 t: 2x3 21" TT (FD)
-15 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-12 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
-10 t: Sonar
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophones
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
537 lbs / 244 Kg = 8.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Forward deck: 26.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Aft deck: 39.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.5 %
Waterplane Area: 8,432 Square feet or 783 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
The V-class sloops are, functionally, replacements for the Vitava class protected cruisers, which have spent the last few years as heavy patrol assets in the Caribbean.
Though the sloop lacks significant protection, it has a heavier armament, superior speed and range, and scouting capability that the older cruisers lack. It also has the legs for a patrol into the Atlantic and the command facilities to control an escort group as required.
A notional build of six to eight units is anticipated at this time.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
2,153 t light; 2,287 t standard; 2,785 t normal; 3,184 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(408.86 ft / 396.98 ft) x 42.65 ft x (12.80 / 14.09 ft)
(124.62 m / 121.00 m) x 13.00 m x (3.90 / 4.29 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 468 lbs / 212 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20,107 shp / 15,000 Kw = 26.28 kts
Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 897 tons
Complement:
191 - 249
Cost:
£0.717 million / $2.866 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 121 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 60 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 51 tons, 1.8 %
- Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 644 tons, 23.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,071 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 632 tons, 22.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 258 tons, 9.3 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 123 tons
- Above deck: 110 tons
Fittings:
-10 t: Sonar (BW)
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-75 t: Two armed floatplanes and a catapult (FD)
-15 t: ASW ordnance (FD)
-16 t: 2x2 heavyweigtht 530mm torpedo carriages, no reloads (AD)
-50 t: Command facilities (AD)
-12 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-30 t: Weight reserve (AD/FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,982 lbs / 1,806 Kg = 59.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.467
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.31 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Average freeboard: 15.94 ft / 4.86 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.8 %
Waterplane Area: 10,800 Square feet or 1,003 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 303 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 1.97
- Overall: 0.90
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
The 1926 oiler is a mild upgrade of the preceding Vanem type. A little faster, a few more machine guns, a few tonnes more oil.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
9,035 t light; 9,278 t standard; 10,683 t normal; 11,807 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(419.60 ft / 410.11 ft) x 65.62 ft x (25.26 / 27.36 ft)
(127.89 m / 125.00 m) x 20.00 m x (7.70 / 8.34 m)
Armament:
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mount, 1926 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 198 lbs / 90 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 12,065 shp / 9,000 Kw = 18.35 kts
Range 26,300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,529 tons
Complement:
525 - 683
Cost:
£1.335 million / $5.341 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 49 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 21 tons, 0.2 %
- Armament: 21 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 386 tons, 3.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,302 tons, 21.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,648 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6,277 tons, 58.8 %
- Hull below water: 4,000 tons
- Hull above water: 1,790 tons
- On freeboard deck: 400 tons
- Above deck: 87 tons
Fittings:
-5 t: 1918 Fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-20 t: Accommodation for 10 passengers (AD)
-37 t: Weight reserve/cargo/mail (AD)
-400 t: Oil handling equipment (FD)
-5,790 t: Fuel oil (AW/BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,276 lbs / 6,929 Kg = 227.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.49
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.561
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 10.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 60.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 15.39 ft / 4.69 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.1 %
Waterplane Area: 18,780 Square feet or 1,745 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 400 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
The Swarm - that lovable horde of torpedo-craft defending the Baltic straits from nasty interlopers - is poised to bring 80t motor-torpedo boats into service. These would, over time, replace the various H and I class torpedo-boats currently making up the majority of the order of battle.
Controlling a bunch of such craft in action would be difficult from one of the MTBs itself, and the four newish torpedo-boats in the Swarm, the oddball P-class, aren't set up with command facilities.
A new, small torpedo-boat with 4x100mm guns would be able to lend considerable local fire support against enemy small craft or lob starshells at enemy large craft, while retaining a modest flag bridge for the junior officer commanding a squadron of MTBs. Speed and range reflect a general assumption that it would be tethered to the short-legged MTBs at all times, and the complete lack of ASW capability reflects its singular role.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
696 t light; 730 t standard; 773 t normal; 808 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(286.04 ft / 275.59 ft) x 24.93 ft x (9.84 / 10.13 ft)
(87.18 m / 84.00 m) x 7.60 m x (3.00 / 3.09 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 124 lbs / 56 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20,107 shp / 15,000 Kw = 30.95 kts
Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 78 tons
Complement:
73 - 95
Cost:
£0.295 million / $1.178 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 6 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 390 tons, 50.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 233 tons, 30.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 77 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 44 tons, 5.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 12 tons
- Above deck: 32 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
230 lbs / 104 Kg = 7.5 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.406
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.05 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 12.13 ft / 3.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.0 %
Waterplane Area: 4,230 Square feet or 393 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.62
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Fittings:
-12 t: 1x3 heavyweight 53cm torpedoes or 2x2 lightweight 53cm torpedoes, not sure yet
-3t: Fire control
-5 t: Night-fighting doodads
-24 t: MTB squadron command center and maybe a bit of weight reserve.
I would suggest, since you have passed 500t, take it up to 750t. See how much more speed you can put in, even if you reduce range to 3000nm. I'd also suggest a 6 torpedo broadside. This ship will be able to launch torps from nearly double the effective range of an MTB. Make the best use of it. They can launch while their mtbs are retreating,
I've had some similar designs, the Sea Hornets as I recall.
I like the concept... the spare tonnage has always seemed to elude me.
Hmm, seems like I had a variety.
Anyhow browsing my versions to contrast to yours..
The last was managing 650 tons, 4x90... only 29.4knts, but I was
planning for colonial so 1 boiler was oil-sprayed coal (or wood).
So similar ballpark.
I see I was looking at range through the view of a high speed run.
I think conceptually they'd make 12-16hr runs in good weather, so I didn't need 1.0 seakeeping.
I see one calculated for a 1 hr run at 31 knots, plus 24hours at 21 knots. Be very hard to intercept.
I was also mainly planning 18". The vast majority of ships out there don't have TDS,
so # of torps to increase the chance of a hit seemed better, and even
with a TDS, a hole is likely to impose some penalty.
There's of course some with 12x 21" but only 1-2 x 90mm... and no Leader abilities.
Different explorations.
So you're in a tight window, allocating that misc wt is up to you, I'd suggest more torps
and taking a hard look at what range you actually need for your goals.
Those MTBs will only have 2000, do you need 3000 ?
QuoteI would suggest, since you have passed 500t, take it up to 750t. See how much more speed you can put in, even if you reduce range to 3000nm. I'd also suggest a 6 torpedo broadside. This ship will be able to launch torps from nearly double the effective range of an MTB. Make the best use of it. They can launch while their mtbs are retreating,
Byzantine T500M & T500H class TB had 6TTx533HW. => You could have 6TT on 750t.
A Cadillac version of the previous design.
Bigger and faster, with enhanced hydrophones and an actual honest-to-God Huelsmeyer device for target location purposes. I'm not convinced this is necessarily the way to go, but it puts a ceiling on the concept at least. Much bigger than that and I might as well just relegate some of my middle-aged torpedo-boats to do this world instead of building new.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
945 t light; 984 t standard; 1,036 t normal; 1,078 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(309.00 ft / 298.56 ft) x 27.23 ft x (11.15 / 11.45 ft)
(94.18 m / 91.00 m) x 8.30 m x (3.40 / 3.49 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 127 lbs / 58 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 26,810 shp / 20,000 Kw = 32.02 kts
Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 94 tons
Complement:
90 - 118
Cost:
£0.396 million / $1.583 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 6 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 537 tons, 51.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 288 tons, 27.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 92 tons, 8.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 8.7 %
- Hull below water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 22 tons
- Above deck: 53 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
280 lbs / 127 Kg = 9.2 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.406
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 36.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Aft deck: 29.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 12.60 ft / 3.84 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.6 %
Waterplane Area: 5,004 Square feet or 465 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 137 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.26
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Fittings:
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-16 t: 1x4 heavyweight 53cm torpedoes (FD)
-3t: Fire control (AD)
-5 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-20 t: MTB squadron command center and maybe a bit of weight reserve (AD)
-25 t: 1922 pattern refined Huelsmeyer device (AD)
-6 t: Weight reserve (FD)
The two Klinovic class monitors are a quarter-century old, slow, not armored against mines or torpedoes, and ship a 280mm/40cal gun that is otherwise no longer in service in the Union Navy.
Since the 280mm/45 gun is also not long for this world, a potential replacement would scale up to the 300mm/45cal weapon used on several capital ships. Protection against enemy ships would diminish, but survivability against underwater damage and aerial attacks would increase. Consequently, the hull is going to be larger than the Klinovics.
Of course, the question is - do the Klinovics need to be replaced? The Union has three - perhaps soon to be four - large monitors already in service for general shore bombardment/station command/gunnery training functions, and the Denmark Straits might not need this kind of firepower now that we have subs and airplanes to supplement the Swarm.
Anyway:
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
6,191 t light; 6,475 t standard; 6,729 t normal; 6,932 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(363.30 ft / 354.33 ft) x 82.02 ft x (12.47 / 12.79 ft)
(110.73 m / 108.00 m) x 25.00 m x (3.80 / 3.90 m)
Armament:
2 - 11.81" / 300 mm 45.0 cal guns - 830.84lbs / 376.86kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1926 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,057 lbs / 933 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 230.31 ft / 70.20 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 230.31 ft / 70.20 m 11.65 ft / 3.55 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 1.97" / 50 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 5,363 shp / 4,000 Kw = 15.19 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 457 tons
Complement:
370 - 482
Cost:
£1.479 million / $5.916 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 462 tons, 6.9 %
Armour: 2,121 tons, 31.5 %
- Belts: 702 tons, 10.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 195 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 376 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 817 tons, 12.1 %
- Conning Tower: 30 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 172 tons, 2.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,049 tons, 45.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 538 tons, 8.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 387 tons, 5.8 %
- Hull below water: 43 tons
- Hull above water: 108 tons
- On freeboard deck: 36 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25,192 lbs / 11,427 Kg = 30.6 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 8.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.56
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.32 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.82 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
- Average freeboard: 15.41 ft / 4.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 49.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.5 %
Waterplane Area: 22,264 Square feet or 2,068 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 145 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 124 lbs/sq ft or 604 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.35
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
BW: Electric drive
AW: Torpedo nets
FD: Weight reserve
AD: FC + L/R wireless + nightfighting + command centre
Is it possible to update them to 19kts like the Wspanialy and install 2T2x250 instead of the 2T1x300 ?
Just an idea...
On a slightly heavier hull with more length and depth, yes.
So this is what I understand Jef to be suggesting:
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
6,644 t light; 7,019 t standard; 7,854 t normal; 8,522 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(470.39 ft / 456.04 ft) x 65.62 ft x (18.37 / 19.55 ft)
(143.38 m / 139.00 m) x 20.00 m x (5.60 / 5.96 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.84" / 250 mm 45.0 cal guns - 480.81lbs / 218.09kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,318 lbs / 1,052 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 296.42 ft / 90.35 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 1.97" / 50 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 13,405 shp / 10,000 Kw = 20.06 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,503 tons
Complement:
416 - 542
Cost:
£1.744 million / $6.974 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 631 tons, 8.0 %
Armour: 2,456 tons, 31.3 %
- Belts: 1,226 tons, 15.6 %
- Armament: 431 tons, 5.5 %
- Armour Deck: 732 tons, 9.3 %
- Conning Tower: 67 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 429 tons, 5.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,828 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,210 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,963 lbs / 9,509 Kg = 44.0 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.85
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.45 ft / 5.32 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 44.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.0 %
Waterplane Area: 19,937 Square feet or 1,852 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 539 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.98
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
It can get a fair bit better on not much more tonnage. Wesworld vets will recall the proliferation of "escort cruisers" in this size range.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
7,679 t light; 8,158 t standard; 9,071 t normal; 9,801 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(490.08 ft / 475.72 ft) x 65.62 ft x (20.34 / 21.57 ft)
(149.38 m / 145.00 m) x 20.00 m x (6.20 / 6.57 m)
Armament:
6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 45.0 cal guns - 480.81lbs / 218.09kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,280 lbs / 1,488 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 296.42 ft / 90.35 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 1.97" / 50 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 26,809 shp / 20,000 Kw = 23.61 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,642 tons
Complement:
464 - 604
Cost:
£2.387 million / $9.548 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 898 tons, 9.9 %
Armour: 2,533 tons, 27.9 %
- Belts: 1,230 tons, 13.6 %
- Armament: 466 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 764 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 74 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 858 tons, 9.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,090 tons, 34.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,392 tons, 15.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,308 lbs / 7,397 Kg = 34.2 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.48
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.45 ft / 5.32 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.1 %
Waterplane Area: 20,798 Square feet or 1,932 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 571 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
More chance to hit with 4 guns than with 2.
A good patrol and escort ship capable of deterring a 6000t cruiser from attacking.
It's up to you to see the cost and your BP availability.
Attention to rules about the length of the ship.
QuoteThe bow may be lengthened by up to 5% of overall length. A new section may be added amidships, up to 5% of overall length.
By raising the forecastle, 19kts should be possible to work with
Wspanialy.
;)
Wspanially's probably out of service in five years time, though. Or at least relegated to reserve/shore bombardment type roles.
So if you didn't like that, you'll really not like this.
This would be a testbed for a 2-gun 450mm turret, which drives the hull size in terms of needing the beam, length, and 5.5 decks to accommodate the turret and barbette.
But since I've got that hull and the hull strength that goes with it, it's heavily armored and also equipped with a fairly substantial anti-air battery.
As usual, some miscellaneous weight would apply to command facilities, night-fighting, and so forth.
Big Boi, Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
14,379 t light; 15,114 t standard; 16,362 t normal; 17,361 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(437.27 ft / 426.51 ft) x 101.71 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x (19.69 / 20.76 ft)
(133.28 m / 130.00 m) x 31.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x (6.00 / 6.33 m)
Armament:
2 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,976.24lbs / 1,350.00kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1926 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
4 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
6 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,680 lbs / 3,030 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 278.87 ft / 85.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 147.64 ft / 45.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 14.96 ft / 4.56 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 3.94" / 100 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 13,404 shp / 10,000 Kw = 17.12 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,247 tons
Complement:
723 - 940
Cost:
£3.962 million / $15.850 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,242 tons, 7.6 %
Armour: 5,730 tons, 35.0 %
- Belts: 1,825 tons, 11.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 279 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,123 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,394 tons, 14.6 %
- Conning Tower: 109 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 429 tons, 2.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,428 tons, 39.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,983 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 549 tons, 3.4 %
- Hull below water: 107 tons
- Hull above water: 130 tons
- On freeboard deck: 72 tons
- Above deck: 240 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
50,609 lbs / 22,956 Kg = 18.2 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 12.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.60
Metacentric height 11.3 ft / 3.4 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.95
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.630 / 0.634
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30.00 %, 27.56 ft / 8.40 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 20.94 ft / 6.38 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.3 %
Waterplane Area: 32,624 Square feet or 3,031 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 813 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 2.94
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
BW: Electric drive
AW: Torpedo nets
FD: Mostly weight reserve and command facilities
AD: FC, nightfighting, L/R wireless, command facilities
A shallow-draft gunboat designed explicitly to carry a platoon's worth of 150mm howitzers for shore bombardment purposes *and* the spotting top to direct the fire.
The vessel would be able to work inshore on oceans, in the big lake in the canal zone, and a fair ways up some of the major river systems in Union territory.
Although shown with the howitzers stowed forward/aft, actual fire missions would normally occur with the guns firing on a broadside; little to no end-on fire is anticipated here. Fixed ammunition lockers supply a quantity of ready shells to the battery, the rest being below decks.
The ship is armored and armed for basic defense against air and shore battery attack. While an earlier version embarked torpedo nets, I'm not really sure it's a major hazard for something with such a shallow draft, especially if it works on rivers a fair bit.
Consideration was given to a layout that had the superstructure well aft and all four howitzers in line amidships, but that seemed a bit vulnerable to mission kills from a single hit or malfunction. Plus the spotting top seems better placed amidships.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925
Displacement:
898 t light; 974 t standard; 1,017 t normal; 1,051 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(255.81 ft / 249.34 ft) x 39.37 ft x (5.58 / 5.74 ft)
(77.97 m / 76.00 m) x 12.00 m x (1.70 / 1.75 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1925 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 - 5.91" / 150 mm 25.0 cal guns - 93.53lbs / 42.42kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 387 lbs / 175 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 162.40 ft / 49.50 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 2,010 shp / 1,500 Kw = 15.57 kts
Range 2,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 76 tons
Complement:
89 - 117
Cost:
£0.168 million / $0.673 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 34 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 255 tons, 25.1 %
- Belts: 83 tons, 8.2 %
- Armament: 32 tons, 3.2 %
- Armour Deck: 138 tons, 13.6 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 65 tons, 6.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 329 tons, 32.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 119 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 214 tons, 21.0 %
- Hull below water: 36 tons
- On freeboard deck: 58 tons
- Above deck: 120 tons
Fittings:
-36 t: Diesel/electric drive (BW)
-4 t: Type 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Extra S/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: Command facilities (AD)
-25 t: Cage mast and spotting top (AD)
-79 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,346 lbs / 1,518 Kg = 877.3 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.58
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
- Average freeboard: 11.35 ft / 3.46 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 40.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.7 %
Waterplane Area: 7,520 Square feet or 699 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 145 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.70
- Longitudinal: 1.33
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
The 1926 monitor as I'm going to build it.
Between adjusted freeboard/depth and the superfiring turret, there's now six deck levels to accommodate the turret overall and that seemed to be the necessary minimum from my readings.
The superstructure reflects a slightly compact version of the new form being introduced on the G-class battleships. This includes some space for classroom facilities to allow the ship to double as a gunnery training platform if not being used to test the main gun or operate as a station flagship.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1926
Displacement:
8,819 t light; 9,232 t standard; 10,149 t normal; 10,883 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(402.50 ft / 393.70 ft) x 85.30 ft x (17.06 / 18.09 ft)
(122.68 m / 120.00 m) x 26.00 m x (5.20 / 5.51 m)
Armament:
1 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal gun - 2,976.24lbs / 1,350.00kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading gun in turret on barbette mount, 1926 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,371 lbs / 1,529 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 16.21 ft / 4.94 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 5.12" / 130 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 2.56" / 65 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2.56" / 65 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 10,724 shp / 8,000 Kw = 17.46 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,652 tons
Complement:
505 - 657
Cost:
£2.246 million / $8.985 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 627 tons, 6.2 %
Armour: 2,711 tons, 26.7 %
- Belts: 764 tons, 7.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 242 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 516 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,150 tons, 11.3 %
- Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 343 tons, 3.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,473 tons, 44.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,331 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 664 tons, 6.5 %
- Hull below water: 86 tons
- Hull above water: 120 tons
- On freeboard deck: 58 tons
- Above deck: 400 tons
-86 t: Electric motors (BW)
-120 t: Torpedo nets (AW)
-63 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Second S/R wireless (AD)
-100 t: Command facilities (AD)
-100 t: Classroom facilities (AD)
-135 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,792 lbs / 14,874 Kg = 11.8 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 8.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 14.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.71
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.620 / 0.627
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.62 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 17.70 ft / 5.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 53.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176.8 %
Waterplane Area: 25,024 Square feet or 2,325 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 730 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.81
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
The first use I've got for a 2,500 t destroyer hull is to make a fast minelayer out of it. This would complement two existing minelayer-cruisers and continue my trend of focusing on specialized offensive minelayers rather than having large quantities of light forces with limited capabilities.
In theory I could probably get 2x2 130mm M&H for a main battery, but eh. The torpedoes are defensive stand-off weapons, something to make a pursuer think twice about pursuing.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1927
Displacement:
2,499 t light; 2,595 t standard; 3,034 t normal; 3,385 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(432.90 ft / 414.70 ft) x 38.71 ft x (15.75 / 16.98 ft)
(131.95 m / 126.40 m) x 11.80 m x (4.80 / 5.17 m)
Armament:
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 201 lbs / 91 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 51,609 shp / 38,500 Kw = 33.09 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 790 tons
Complement:
203 - 265
Cost:
£1.129 million / $4.516 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 37 tons, 1.2 %
Armour: 20 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 20 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,520 tons, 50.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 678 tons, 22.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 535 tons, 17.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 244 tons, 8.0 %
- Hull above water: 140 tons
- On freeboard deck: 34 tons
- Above deck: 70 tons
Fittings:
-4 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-18 t: 2x3 - 530mm torpedo carriages, no reloads (FD)
-32 t: Weight reserve (AD/FD)
-140 t: Mines, man (AW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
815 lbs / 370 Kg = 26.7 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.420 / 0.435
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 16.33 ft / 4.98 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.9 %
Waterplane Area: 10,009 Square feet or 930 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 84 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 171 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.49
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
1080 nm @ 30 kts
1800 nm @ 25 kts (half-power)
3300 nm @ 20 kts
6800 nm @ 15 kts
The unholy offspring of an armored cruiser and a light aircraft carrier. This is more fooling around/seeing what can be done with flight deck cruisers than a concrete proposal to build it.
The bow is rather high, so the main battery won't be firing straight ahead at short ranges, and the overall firing arc for the second turret is not awesome. Lighter batteries are aft, although I might look at parking some stuff around the island.
I won't work out the precise miscellaneous weight but the important thing is it could take 19 or 16 aircraft, depending on the vintage. Hanger length is comparable to the Wrona class carrier (18/15 aircraft) and the deck a bit shorter, but both hanger and flight deck would be a few metres wider. The carrier is shown for comparison purposes.
Hypothetically, I could reconstruct it to a full carrier by yanking out the main battery and adding hanger/flight deck. Depending on whether it was considered a conversion or not, it could maybe add another 10-15 aircraft that way. Which is honestly not spectacular for a hull that big.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1927
Displacement:
22,664 t light; 23,737 t standard; 25,767 t normal; 27,391 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(763.56 ft / 744.75 ft) x 82.02 ft x (29.53 / 30.92 ft)
(232.73 m / 227.00 m) x 25.00 m x (9.00 / 9.43 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.81" / 300 mm 45.0 cal guns - 830.84lbs / 376.86kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1927 Model
6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
6 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,983 lbs / 2,714 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 505.25 ft / 154.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 505.25 ft / 154.00 m 25.98 ft / 7.92 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 2.95" / 75 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 127,346 shp / 95,000 Kw = 31.24 kts
Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,654 tons
Complement:
1,016 - 1,321
Cost:
£6.939 million / $27.757 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,348 tons, 5.2 %
Armour: 5,791 tons, 22.5 %
- Belts: 2,008 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 765 tons, 3.0 %
- Armament: 732 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,174 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 111 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 4,020 tons, 15.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,495 tons, 36.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,103 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,010 tons, 7.8 %
- Hull below water: 800 tons
- Hull above water: 800 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,016 lbs / 19,058 Kg = 51.0 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 5.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.82
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 33
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.05 ft / 9.16 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 37.73 ft / 11.50 m, 37.73 ft / 11.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 37.73 ft / 11.50 m, 37.73 ft / 11.50 m
- Average freeboard: 29.54 ft / 9.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 224.3 %
Waterplane Area: 40,700 Square feet or 3,781 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 713 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.10
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on June 23, 2023, 07:45:55 PM
The first use I've got for a 2,500 t destroyer hull is to make a fast minelayer out of it. This would complement two existing minelayer-cruisers and continue my trend of focusing on specialized offensive minelayers rather than having large quantities of light forces with limited capabilities.
Hmm, my efforts to use cruiser hulls for this has not been satisfactory.
The DD looks more suitable.
Bah, and here I thought large DDs might be a tech I could skip as I otherwise need numbers.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on June 25, 2023, 08:31:18 PM
The unholy offspring of an armored cruiser and a light aircraft carrier. This is more fooling around/seeing what can be done with flight deck cruisers than a concrete proposal to build it.
I think you should build one of every design !...not really.
My files have a fair number of exploratory ships.
But most of my designs are variations on a design role, and a dozen versions of the same ship, fiddling with details.
Then one or two make it here for discussion/review.
A small, fast seaplane carrier.
Six planes and a catapult don't necessarily get your very far, but it can get you a decent search package and a couple of float fighters to shoot down snoopers or the other guy's artillery spotters. If you're out in the Atlantic with a cruiser or a couple of torpedo boats, it might make the difference between catching a raider or missing it entirely.
The hanger definitely has space for four aircraft, so the remaining two would have to sit on the deck and/or catapult. I'm probably going to think about a slightly larger version that can put six planes in a hanger.
I was wondering if I could do it on 3,000 t and 0.75 hull strength, but the hull would be shorter and narrower and I'm not certain I could get the six planes on it. I suspect 2,000 t and 0.5 hull strength can get me the weight of four planes, but I don't know about the deck space.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1927
Displacement:
4,363 t light; 4,509 t standard; 5,231 t normal; 5,808 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(451.87 ft / 442.91 ft) x 52.49 ft x (15.75 / 17.05 ft)
(137.73 m / 135.00 m) x 16.00 m x (4.80 / 5.20 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1927 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 287 lbs / 130 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 67,024 shp / 50,000 Kw = 32.05 kts
Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,299 tons
Complement:
306 - 399
Cost:
£1.730 million / $6.922 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 77 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 42 tons, 0.8 %
- Armament: 42 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,116 tons, 40.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,827 tons, 34.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 868 tons, 16.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 301 tons, 5.8 %
- Hull above water: 77 tons
- On freeboard deck: 134 tons
- Above deck: 90 tons
Fittings:
-155t: 6 armed floatplanes and a catapult (AW/FD)
-35 t: L/R radio and redundant S/R radio (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-50 t: Air operations center (AD/FD)
-8 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-12 + 31 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,625 lbs / 1,644 Kg = 54.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.513
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.08 ft / 6.12 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 137.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 189.8 %
Waterplane Area: 15,491 Square feet or 1,439 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 345 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.81
- Longitudinal: 2.26
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
If you've got the tonnage I'd suggest a pair of broadside catapults to the single centerline catapult. That way you can have a fighter on one and a scout plane on the other, and you're always ready to put up a defensive aircraft or a light strike aircraft, even when doing regular scouting flight operations.
The tonnage isn't really an issue - it's another 5 t - but the deck space is a challenge.
That said, I can do some re-arranging of the hanger deck/crane/after superstructure to plunk a second cat on the hanger roof and position two aircraft as you suggest.
Yeah, I think that'd be more useful. While you wouldn't use the top catapult much, having the ability to surge up an aircraft while running regular flight operations gives you a sort of 'alert' aircraft.
The governor of the Union's Caribbean territories has noted that he resides on an island, governs other islands, and also rules over a large chunk of mainland. Since air travel is still pretty iffy, he'd like a yacht. Please.
If you're thinking, "That sure looks like Rocky's coastal escort", then, yeah, guilty as charged. From the in-game perspective, it's a hull the Union is already producing in numbers and a civilian conversion of the type is easier than designing something new. From the out-of-game perspective, I was having a hell of a time making anything work and remembered that the coastal escort was about the right size for what I was looking for.
The yacht ships diesels rather than oil-fired machinery. The armament's completely replaced by modest furnishings for the governor, a guest, and a handful of aides, plus a bit of working space. Some electric lighting and safety barriers to improve the exterior recreational experience. It isn't palatial, but it means the guy can work while traveling. The hull itself is seaworthy for the Caribbean, though hurricanes are still best avoided.
The ship will be built to civilian standards, and the governor of the Azorez is highly interested in one of his own.
Governor's Ride, laid down 1927
Displacement:
261 t light; 267 t standard; 281 t normal; 292 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(147.17 ft / 137.80 ft) x 19.69 ft x (7.87 / 8.09 ft)
(44.86 m / 42.00 m) x 6.00 m x (2.40 / 2.47 m)
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,948 shp / 2,200 Kw = 20.34 kts
Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 24 tons
Complement:
33 - 44
Cost:
£0.081 million / $0.323 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 93 tons, 33.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 82 tons, 29.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 19 tons, 6.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 86 tons, 30.6 %
- Hull below water: 28 tons
- Hull above water: 15 tons
- On freeboard deck: 43 tons
Fittings:
-10 t: Governor's suite (FD)
-10 t: Dining room/amenities (FD)
-5 t: Guest suite (FD)
-8 t: Cabins for 2 senior staff (FD)
-10 t: Staff workspace (FD)
-12 t: Berthing for 6 junior staff (AW)
-3 t: Luggage/cargo (AW)
-28 t: Machinery (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
191 lbs / 87 Kg = 1.8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.465
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 12.80 ft / 3.90 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 12.80 ft / 3.90 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
- Average freeboard: 10.35 ft / 3.16 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95.3 %
Waterplane Area: 1,745 Square feet or 162 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 97 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.58
- Longitudinal: 7.71
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Rocky loves small boats.
;)
Except for battleships.
But in general they're a lot of fun
I keep meaning to build a royal yacht. Maybe I'll get around to it with my new focus on low-rate production of support ships, since I've finally gotten a somewhat balanced fleet.
I've also tried my hand at a royal yacht,
but after the 30knot speed for evasion
long range high speed cruise for crossing the large empire,
180mm guns and heavy armor to defeat raiders and ensure the Royals are safe....
they look a lot like a cruiser and aren't very comfy.
In other words, my efforts have failed badly :)
Trying to come up with a good ship to go pick up Princess Shirin...
unless I sent a Battleship with Admirals Quarters, I lack
vessels with decent 'Guest' quarters, so wound up with
the 'Royal Mail' cruiser which was meant for that.
The K-class torpedo-boats are the backbone of the Union's overseas territorial squadrons, and hold up relatively well even sixteen years after the first units were laid down. However, it seems like a modest refurbishment is in order.
The primary change is a shift from oil-sprayed coal to oil-firing machinery and the necessary refurbishment costs associated with that.
The armament's also getting modernized, with 100mm QF, 50mm AA, and twin 15mm machine guns replacing the older 100mm, 50mm QF, and 10mm machine gun battery.
Finally, a sonar dome is being added to complement the existing enhanced hydrophone package. That and a fix to other miscellaneous weight distribution and fittings adds up to 50 t of new miscellaneous weight.
Cost of this refurbishment is $0.43 and 0.090 BP. I'll likely do three groups of eight and then the last six over a span of two years.
K-class refurbishment, laid down 1911
Displacement:
945 t light; 983 t standard; 1,134 t normal; 1,255 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(299.02 ft / 295.60 ft) x 29.53 ft x (10.83 / 11.60 ft)
(91.14 m / 90.10 m) x 9.00 m x (3.30 / 3.54 m)
Armament:
3 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 200 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 101 lbs / 46 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,108 shp / 15,000 Kw = 29.31 kts
Range 6,800nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 271 tons
Complement:
97 - 127
Cost:
£0.119 million / $0.476 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 19 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 21 tons, 1.9 %
- Armament: 21 tons, 1.9 %
Machinery: 576 tons, 50.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 253 tons, 22.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 189 tons, 16.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 76 tons, 6.7 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 39 tons
- Above deck: 12 tons
Fittings:
-10 t: Sonar (BW)
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-16 t: 2x2 530mm heavyweight torpedo carriages (FD)
-14 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-2 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-9 t: Weight reserve (FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
302 lbs / 137 Kg = 9.9 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.420 / 0.434
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.36 ft / 5.90 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Average freeboard: 11.92 ft / 3.63 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.0 %
Waterplane Area: 5,442 Square feet or 506 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 126 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.39
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
It is important to reserve a lot of misc weight when building DDs.
Their weapons and equipment will only grow over the years.
Byzantium works (1927/1928) on the installation of 12.7 Vickers and 40mm pompom on its ships.
The Weingarten class torpedo-boats are very slightly modified versions of the preceding U-class boats.
I'd have just gone with the U-class with 1927 engines, but the 1927 engines meant the machinery percentage was below 50%. So I up-engined a bit and got a bit more miscellaneous weight into the hull and that's pretty much it.
Probably building 16 over the course of 1927 and 1928.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1927
Displacement:
1,928 t light; 2,018 t standard; 2,289 t normal; 2,507 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(395.26 ft / 383.86 ft) x 36.09 ft x (14.11 / 14.99 ft)
(120.48 m / 117.00 m) x 11.00 m x (4.30 / 4.57 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1927 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 302 lbs / 137 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42,896 shp / 32,000 Kw = 32.76 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 489 tons
Complement:
165 - 215
Cost:
£0.928 million / $3.713 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 79 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 25 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,144 tons, 50.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 552 tons, 24.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 361 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 128 tons, 5.6 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 58 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Fittings:
-8 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-24 t: 2x3 21" TT (FD)
-15 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-21 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
-10 t: Sonar
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophones
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
556 lbs / 252 Kg = 8.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Forward deck: 28.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Aft deck: 37.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.59 ft / 4.45 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.6 %
Waterplane Area: 8,579 Square feet or 797 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 177 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.35
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Exellent DD, well balanced, but...
You could have certainly:
"Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform".
Recognizing that it may be "too soon" from an out-of-character perspective, given the recent accident in the Atlantic, there is nonetheless an in-character utility in acquiring a dedicated submarine rescue ship.
This class would embark divers, diving bells, decompression chambers, extra cranes and other stuff associated with getting people safely out of a disabled submarine. There would also be some medical facilities to observe and treat survivors or the ship's own diving complement. It would not be capable of actually retrieving a submarine, though, a heavier crane ship would be needed for that.
When not dealing with accidents or training for accidents, the class can also be used to work around wrecks (investigating/charting/demolishing), surveying, torpedo recovery, and that sort of thing.
Armament is very modest and defensive in nature. Speed/range is primarily to allow a rapid-ish transit from home port to an accident site. The build would be to civilian specs.
From a numbers perspective, most Union submarines are in European or Caribbean waters so a unit in each would make some sense. A third unit might be good to have some back-up coverage.
Submarine rescue ship, laid down 1927
Displacement:
1,129 t light; 1,166 t standard; 1,355 t normal; 1,507 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(252.64 ft / 242.78 ft) x 36.09 ft x (9.84 / 10.71 ft)
(77.01 m / 74.00 m) x 11.00 m x (3.00 / 3.26 m)
Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1927 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1927 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 62 lbs / 28 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 5,899 shp / 4,400 Kw = 20.09 kts
Range 3,000nm at 16.90 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 341 tons
Complement:
111 - 145
Cost:
£0.250 million / $1.000 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 12 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 11 tons, 0.8 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 186 tons, 13.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 462 tons, 34.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 226 tons, 16.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 458 tons, 33.8 %
- Hull below water: 127 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 194 tons
- Above deck: 37 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Lighting/nightfighting doodads (AD)
-2 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-14 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-180 t: Extra cranes, operations space, and other mission-themed stuff (FD)
-30 t: Cargo hold (Diving bells, etc) (AW)
-70 t: Decompression chamber, medical facilities (AW)
-102 t: Diesel-electric machinery (BW)
-25 t: Sonar and enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,146 lbs / 1,427 Kg = 103.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.59
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.562
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.73 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.17 ft / 4.32 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.6 %
Waterplane Area: 6,115 Square feet or 568 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 156 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 223 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.87
- Longitudinal: 3.50
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
D-E engines add 90% to range, so:
22,800 @ 10 kts
8,000 @ 15 kts
5,700 @ 16.92 kts (half power)
3,400 @ 20 kts
A big torpedo-boat intended for small-ship combat operations in the North Sea and Baltic alongside the Swarm. Notionally it'd have about the same kit as a U or W class ship, but maybe two more torpedoes.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
2,484 t light; 2,615 t standard; 2,931 t normal; 3,183 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(436.30 ft / 417.98 ft) x 38.71 ft x (15.09 / 15.97 ft)
(132.98 m / 127.40 m) x 11.80 m x (4.60 / 4.87 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck centre
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 422 lbs / 191 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 53,619 shp / 40,000 Kw = 33.61 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 567 tons
Complement:
198 - 258
Cost:
£1.276 million / $5.104 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 113 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 49 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 49 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 1,481 tons, 50.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 697 tons, 23.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 446 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 144 tons, 4.9 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 69 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
667 lbs / 303 Kg = 10.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.420 / 0.431
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m, 19.36 ft / 5.90 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.36 ft / 5.90 m, 19.36 ft / 5.90 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.73 ft / 4.80 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.7 %
Waterplane Area: 10,088 Square feet or 937 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 191 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.35
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
A wee light cruiser in the Arethusa style. Don't think it ticks my boxes but was amusing to sim.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
5,381 t light; 5,613 t standard; 6,290 t normal; 6,832 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(519.26 ft / 505.25 ft) x 52.49 ft x (18.04 / 19.16 ft)
(158.27 m / 154.00 m) x 16.00 m x (5.50 / 5.84 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 747 lbs / 339 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 67,024 shp / 50,000 Kw = 32.02 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,219 tons
Complement:
353 - 459
Cost:
£2.084 million / $8.335 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 201 tons, 3.2 %
Armour: 618 tons, 9.8 %
- Belts: 183 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 115 tons, 1.8 %
- Armour Deck: 313 tons, 5.0 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 2,087 tons, 33.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,350 tons, 37.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 909 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 2.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 60 tons
- Above deck: 65 tons
Fittings:
-20 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-30 t: Armed scoutplane and catapult (FD)
-24 t: 2x3 530mm torpedo carriages (FD)
-16 t: Weight reserve (AD/FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,648 lbs / 2,562 Kg = 54.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.471
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.48 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.97 ft / 7.61 m, 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 20.01 ft / 6.10 m, 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Average freeboard: 18.05 ft / 5.50 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.5 %
Waterplane Area: 17,059 Square feet or 1,585 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 426 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.63
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Eeep that armor.
I know, right? I did a version where I just skipped the belt and deck entirely and shaved the hull down to around 4,100 t.
Not that I seem likely to build that variant either.
If you raise it to 6000t, it will have more serious armor.
This is undoubtedly true.
The 1928 Emergency Battleship is technically over its maximum light displacement, but on the other hand, everybody who's seen the sketch agrees that it doesn't look as dorky as the 1924 Emergency Battleship. Let's be honest, it's a big-ass monitor.
There's a different emphasis on deck versus belt armor, and there won't be much running away with all the big guns forward.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
15,547 t light; 16,447 t standard; 17,775 t normal; 18,837 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(448.35 ft / 433.07 ft) x 95.14 ft x (25.59 / 26.84 ft)
(136.66 m / 132.00 m) x 29.00 m x (7.80 / 8.18 m)
Armament:
6 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,319.35lbs / 598.45kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
4 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,644 lbs / 3,921 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 281.50 ft / 85.80 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 281.50 ft / 85.80 m 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 3.94" / 100 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 29,490 shp / 22,000 Kw = 21.05 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,390 tons
Complement:
769 - 1,000
Cost:
£5.621 million / $22.484 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,836 tons, 10.3 %
Armour: 6,131 tons, 34.5 %
- Belts: 1,682 tons, 9.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 390 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 1,761 tons, 9.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,095 tons, 11.8 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 918 tons, 5.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,224 tons, 35.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,228 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 438 tons, 2.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 138 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Fittings:
-184 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-50 t: Flag facilities (AD/FD))
-30 t: Single scout plane and catapult (FD)
-41 + 83 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,513 lbs / 13,387 Kg = 22.6 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 6.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.590 / 0.596
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m, 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 20.01 ft / 6.10 m, 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m, 12.14 ft / 3.70 m
- Average freeboard: 17.18 ft / 5.24 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.6 %
Waterplane Area: 29,855 Square feet or 2,774 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 885 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.73
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
More or less the 1925 CL, but with a hypothetical 170mm main battery that doesn't exist just yet.
I suppose with 150mm and 200mm guns in service, maybe the Union would split the difference and go with a 175 instead.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1927
Displacement:
7,940 t light; 8,314 t standard; 9,283 t normal; 10,058 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(593.66 ft / 577.43 ft) x 57.74 ft x (21.65 / 22.93 ft)
(180.95 m / 176.00 m) x 17.60 m x (6.60 / 6.99 m)
Armament:
8 - 6.69" / 170 mm 45.0 cal guns - 151.18lbs / 68.58kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1927 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,334 lbs / 605 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 387.14 ft / 118.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.57" / 40 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 80,429 shp / 60,000 Kw = 32.09 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,744 tons
Complement:
472 - 614
Cost:
£2.763 million / $11.051 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 354 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 1,789 tons, 19.3 %
- Belts: 1,015 tons, 10.9 %
- Armament: 112 tons, 1.2 %
- Armour Deck: 625 tons, 6.7 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,539 tons, 27.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,911 tons, 31.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,343 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 347 tons, 3.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 147 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,905 lbs / 4,039 Kg = 59.4 x 6.7 " / 170 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.57 ft / 8.10 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 18.11 ft / 5.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.5 %
Waterplane Area: 21,268 Square feet or 1,976 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 434 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Sorry we don't have more recent Norse ships for you to design against.
Looking at my designs vs. this, the OPFOR's designs matter.
But compared to Snip's Messana class, you have a similar main gun,
but better belt/deck on the same tonnage...but more speed.
And speed is a real tonnage eater on these.
The 170/175 range is interesting.
The Germans had some 170mm secondaries, and they worked, but were considered
a little heavy. The French had a bunch of 164mm.
The next tier up was the top of the handworked guns the 194s/190s
and we know they retrofitted the Hawkins guns with power assist to help there.
That's why I have the smaller-but-should be more workable 180s...which the Aztec and Romans now have.
If the gun isn't around yet, I'd put the build date at +2 years
and see what the engine savings get you.
Fair point, and I guess I'd be looking at a 1930 design if that were done. It would probably gain me 10mm of deck armor or such.
But I'm not really likely to go down this path, I don't think. Suspect I'm sticking with a "capital ship - cruiser killer/armored cruiser - light cruiser" force mix.
A further refinement of the riverine seaplane carrier.
This one has capacity for six aircraft - definitely four in the hanger, with external deckspace for a couple more.
While I've kept the general configuration of preceding types, there's a case to be made for shifting the hanger forward and having the catapult, recovery ramp, and deckpark as one long stretch on the aft half of the hull.
Don't expect I'll build it, but it's fun to play with.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1927
Displacement:
924 t light; 949 t standard; 980 t normal; 1,004 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(325.41 ft / 318.24 ft) x 45.93 ft x (3.61 / 3.69 ft)
(99.18 m / 97.00 m) x 14.00 m x (1.10 / 1.12 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1927 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 22 lbs / 10 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 939 shp / 700 Kw = 12.23 kts
Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 55 tons
Complement:
86 - 113
Cost:
£0.138 million / $0.552 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 89 tons, 9.1 %
- Armament: 14 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 76 tons, 7.7 %
Machinery: 30 tons, 3.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 453 tons, 46.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 55 tons, 5.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 347 tons, 35.4 %
- Hull below water: 92 tons
- Hull above water: 75 tons
- On freeboard deck: 90 tons
- Above deck: 90 tons
Fittings:
-150 t: Facilities for six armed floatplanes (BW/AW)
-5 t: Catapult (FD)
-17 t: Diesel-electric machinery (BW)
-50 t: Flight operations (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Extra S/R wireless (AD)
-90 t: Weight reserve (almost entirely FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,031 lbs / 2,735 Kg = 468.5 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.652
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 21 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 84
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -11.81 ft / -3.60 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 3.94 ft / 1.20 m, 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
- Average freeboard: 12.20 ft / 3.72 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 31.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 292.9 %
Waterplane Area: 11,198 Square feet or 1,040 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 192 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 164 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.73
- Longitudinal: 0.97
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
The Oyono class light cruisers are slightly larger than the preceding Volkhov class, mainly to allow for incrementally better protection. Visually they're similar enough that I won't bother sketching them.
The Union would like to get to the point where it can lay down a new light cruiser every six months, until the heat death of the universe, but it's not 100% certain that the Union's BP count is up to that task along with all the other stuff the Union wants to build.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1927
Displacement:
8,294 t light; 8,629 t standard; 9,531 t normal; 10,252 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(595.30 ft / 580.71 ft) x 58.07 ft x (21.98 / 23.16 ft)
(181.45 m / 177.00 m) x 17.70 m x (6.70 / 7.06 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
6 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,017 lbs / 461 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 377.46 ft / 115.05 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 1.57" / 40 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 81,770 shp / 61,000 Kw = 32.11 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,624 tons
Complement:
481 - 626
Cost:
£2.689 million / $10.755 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 272 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 1,950 tons, 20.5 %
- Belts: 995 tons, 10.4 %
- Armament: 286 tons, 3.0 %
- Armour Deck: 632 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,581 tons, 27.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,251 tons, 34.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,236 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 240 tons, 2.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 140 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,787 lbs / 4,893 Kg = 104.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.10 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.57 ft / 8.10 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 18.11 ft / 5.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.3 %
Waterplane Area: 21,510 Square feet or 1,998 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 471 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.32
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
960nm @ 32 kts
1170nm @ 30 kts
1960nm @ 25 kts
3510nm @ 20 kts
6930nm @ 15 kts
...And now the governors of Orimirilandia and Srebrny Rzeki are like, "Hey, we've got a lot of coast and big rivers that we need to travel on sometimes, too, you know?"
So they get yachts too. These ones are shallow-draft to allow riverine use, but are strudy enough for runs up and down the immediate coast as well. Reflecting the always-warm climates of these territories, there's a big raised quarterdeck that can be covered over with awnings for outdoor entertaining/working.
While a smaller vessel overall compared to the two ocean-going yachts, the installed machinery is much lighter and the room for actual fittings is in fact slightly superior as a result.
The Governor of Bermudez laughed at the idea of needing a yacht, his colleague in North Eryka far prefers to travel by rail, and the Governor of Papuzek said it can wait for another time when you get bored and want to design a different ship.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
168 t light; 171 t standard; 175 t normal; 178 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(156.68 ft / 147.64 ft) x 22.97 ft x (3.28 / 3.32 ft)
(47.76 m / 45.00 m) x 7.00 m x (1.00 / 1.01 m)
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 302 shp / 225 Kw = 12.24 kts
Range 500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6 tons
Complement:
23 - 31
Cost:
£0.027 million / $0.110 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 9 tons, 5.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 72 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7 tons, 3.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 87 tons, 49.8 %
- Hull below water: 5 tons
- Hull above water: 40 tons
- On freeboard deck: 42 tons
Fittings:
-10 t: Governor's suite (FD)
-20 t: Dining room/amenities (FD)
-10 t: Staff workspace (FD)
-2 t: Deck cargo and small crane (FD)
-10 t: Guest suites for two (AW)
-8 t: Cabins for two senior staff (AW)
-16 t: Berthing for eight junior staff (AW)
-5 t: Additional workspace (AW)
-1 t: Stowed cargo/luggage (AW)
-5 t: Diesel-electric machinery (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
717 lbs / 325 Kg = 6.6 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.552
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.95 ft / 0.90 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.73 ft / 5.10 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m, 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
- Average freeboard: 10.08 ft / 3.07 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 46.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.9 %
Waterplane Area: 2,366 Square feet or 220 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 165 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 87 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.61
- Longitudinal: 4.37
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily
Options for a 1928 razee/armored cruiser, all of which would carry 300mm/45 guns in 2-gun turrets plus a 6x2 130mm secondary. The general role remains the same: Cruiser-killing in trade protection roles and fleeting scouting.
Sim B: 18,600 t; 6 guns; B150/D75, 31.89 knots. Basically a newer Straznik. Size range precludes torpedo bulkhead.
Sim C: 18,600 t; 6 guns; B170/D75, 31.89 knots. Squeeze out a bit more belt armor through misc. weight
Sim D: 18,848 t; 6 guns; B200/D75, 31.89 knots. Sim E looks a lot like D.
Sim F: 22,732 t; 8 guns; B200/D75/TB25, 31.94 knots.
Sim G has an all-forward main battery A-Bs-C-Ds, at the cost of lower seakeeping, but otherwise resembles Sim F.
Sim A: 24,119 t; 8 guns; B200/D90/TB40, 31.87 knots.
Sim H: 23,331 t; 6x350/45 guns; B200/D90/TB25, 32 knots.
Notes:
-I don't have a 3-gun 300mm, but could introduce one for a 2H1929 lay-down.
-I think I'll have a 250/50cal in service for 1930 as an alternative.
When I was trying to estimate the penetration for the Parthian ACs, one reason I developed the 255L47 was the numbers were working out to penetrate 150mm at 18km - basically once I see the hull, I can put holes in it.
As the range comes down the penetration ramps up quickly. With the improved AP caps, I expect even better performance.
-Considerations I'd have includes the historic short visibility ranges of the North Sea,
and that the Norse have historically deployed 250mm ACs.
That would suggest the lighter armors might not be appropriate for your home theater.
-The other side is the Romans , who's last AC style ship had 235mm and should have completed by 1922, so by now you should know it can make 32knots. Your naval engineers should be able to figure out the approximate weight in armor, and rough out the capabilities. So they have an outline of where the Romans are going.
Snip tends to push the speed to a point where his ships really can't be caught....it's kinda annoying.
But managing 35 knots to catch it would be difficult and really really expensive in tonnage.
-The Slow Mayan ships operated as a block and did not disperse much, plus they just don't have much trade to protect and were willing to let that be relatively undefended.
-Personally, I think if you are investing this much in a vessel, a TDS is advisable.
So...
Sim B : Not enough Belt for Norse
Sim C : Same
Sim D/E : Good armor, no TDS and 18.8 BP
Sim F : 22.7 BP, Good all round, but costs as much as a 15 year old dreadnaught. The TDS is thin, and likely reliable against aerial torps and mines, which might be enough.
Sim G : Unless all the guns are going to shoot forward as a 'chase' armanent, OR you're going to shorten the citadel and just accept the mild risk of the ends getting riddled and floatation loss.
Sim A : Only 1400 tons more than Sim F, much better TDS. Enough deck armor for longer range fights against pretty heavy ships, but 5500 tons heavier than the weakest.
Sim H : Seems like the equivalent of what I call the Dahae class :) I would be curious if a 24000 ton version could have that 40mm TDS.
I've gone through a similar design process for my Zemaka follow ons, the Hamika and Wadsab classes, with the Dahae meant also to regularly engage the older BCs out there....all classes I'll be considering for a 1928 laydown :)
On 24,000t, I can bump the TDS to 40mm, and do 90mm deck armor. I shave off a 130mm mounting to accomplish that, but it's not a huge sacrifice.
The next question is the perceived tactical value of 31.89knts vs. 32
...
Or 33 or 31
The Roman cruisers you would know about would be ~30-31 knots.
Presumably the Norse are in that same ballpark. The Valkyrie class was 32knots.
Supposedly you need +2-3knots to actually count on hauling them in -
to offset the length of chase, age of boilers, hull fouling, etc.
So...33 to 34 knots to ensure the hunter roll.
One advantage of large ships is the longer length potentially
allows more speed....
Or
31 to match the Romans but ensure the Norse can't reliably get away.
Does that 0.89knts buy much? Does it cost much?
Or 32 to at least nominally match the Norse.
I would also go with the 250mm gun over the 300. The reason that the follow on to the R Class is the Uhlan Class....is that the 6x280 is really just not as good as 9 x 240. Ultimately the small bit of extra punch you're getting out of the bigger gun is compensated for by the slightly faster RoF, and greater number of tubes. 8 is really the lower edge of optimum for ladder shooting, hence I've gotten in the habit of aiming for 8+ guns on everything, including DDs when possible. If you're going to stay sub-20k, use the 250 and put some tonnage into protection, like Kirk said a TDS is basically a requirement at this point for any ship that size. If you're going to go up to 24k, you can get 8 x 300, at which time your Razee is functionally on par with any number of battlecruisers afloat, so that may be worth it to go for the bigger design.
Building on what Tac said, while I have the 300L41.5 which I could put to the same use, but decided my 255L47 was lighter and could do the job at all ranges I needed. If it can see a cruiser, it can kill that cruiser.
For the Dahae series I am looking at either my 333L43. I've looked at 300/333/345/365s for these 'heavy armored cruisers'
It's probably time to restart coastal minesweeper production soon.
This is a modest update of the previous 1923 iteration. We're trying out diesel-electric machinery for responsive handling in minefields, and I've allocated more tonnage to both the primary sweeping and secondary ASW function. The type also remains able to plop a small minefield of its own into the water if that proves useful.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
366 t light; 378 t standard; 398 t normal; 415 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(160.89 ft / 154.20 ft) x 26.25 ft x (6.89 / 7.10 ft)
(49.04 m / 47.00 m) x 8.00 m x (2.10 / 2.17 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1928 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1928 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17 lbs / 8 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 1,609 shp / 1,200 Kw = 16.78 kts
Range 2,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 37 tons
Complement:
43 - 57
Cost:
£0.080 million / $0.319 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 4 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 50 tons, 12.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 158 tons, 39.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 32 tons, 8.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 151 tons, 37.9 %
- Hull below water: 43 tons
- On freeboard deck: 102 tons
- Above deck: 6 tons
Fittings:
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-28 t: Diesel-electric drive (BW)
-50 t: Sweeping gear (FD)
-40 t: Mine capacity (FD)
-8 t: ASW weaponry (FD)
-1 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-5 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-4 t: Weight reserve
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,236 lbs / 561 Kg = 96.0 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 10.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.92
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 26
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.36 ft / 5.90 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Average freeboard: 11.92 ft / 3.63 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 56.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.8 %
Waterplane Area: 2,697 Square feet or 251 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 150 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 152 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.80
- Longitudinal: 7.61
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Below water is 15 for EHP and 28 for diesel-electric
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on August 12, 2023, 07:47:44 AM
This is a modest update of the previous 1923 iteration. We're trying out diesel-electric machinery for responsive handling in minefields, and I've allocated more tonnage to both the primary sweeping and secondary ASW function. The type also remains able to plop a small minefield of its own into the water if that proves useful.
From a wargaming perspective,
depending on how generalized things are
it's probably good to specify the details of the ASW loadout.
-do you have stick bombs for your 75mm gun, so you can engage it as it tries to submerge?
-do you have Y throwers for a broader pattern
-are you going with lots of small DCs or a few larger ones (damage vs. destroy)
From a SIM perspective ...
-Generally, given ignorance about what's really needed- I've seen/ done
various implementations of MSW packages.
-2ts : light paravane
-5t : normal paravane.
<25t : limited MSW package
25t : full MSW package....whatever that is.
That doesn't mean you can't allocate 50t , just that if I'm trying to make a call I'm looking for 25 as 'full'.
If you want, you can dip under 1.0 hull in the cruiser archtype.
Most of my minesweepers don't due to both age and a desire for a strong hull.
Actually most of them have a bulge meant to be a double hull to keep from being crushed.
I'm currently trying to craft a 500 ton (6mo build) fleet ASW escort with dockside conversion options to MS / ML / Transport,
Your vessel works for that, though I'm trying to get 2knots more speed. Maybe I should take another look at 18knots.
I want something that can catch a surfaced sub, and my 1925 is 17knots, so +2-3 is 19-20.
Of course Subs have poor seakeeping so can't manage that speed except in good weather. Plus it would be loud.
Interesting, I'm struggling with
If just 25 t is required for a full sweeping kit, maybe I'll re-sim a bit and see what I can do with speed as well.
Point taken on ASW stuff, and I know you've mentioned it before.
Same miscellaneous weight allocation as above, except the weight reserve is now 4 t and the D-E machinery is 37 t.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
366 t light; 378 t standard; 398 t normal; 415 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(160.89 ft / 154.20 ft) x 26.25 ft x (6.89 / 7.10 ft)
(49.04 m / 47.00 m) x 8.00 m x (2.10 / 2.17 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1928 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1928 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17 lbs / 8 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 2,144 shp / 1,600 Kw = 17.96 kts
Range 2,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 37 tons
Complement:
43 - 57
Cost:
£0.089 million / $0.355 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 4 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 67 tons, 16.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 159 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 32 tons, 8.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 133 tons, 33.4 %
- Hull below water: 52 tons
- On freeboard deck: 75 tons
- Above deck: 6 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
977 lbs / 443 Kg = 75.9 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 10.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.60
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 31
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.36 ft / 5.90 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Average freeboard: 11.92 ft / 3.63 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.8 %
Waterplane Area: 2,697 Square feet or 251 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 142 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 153 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.80
- Longitudinal: 7.66
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Nice little ship.
I like the extra speed, just a tad more than the best a surfaced sub can manage.
With 500t you can make a multifunctional ship.
These guys can sweep or lay mines, support ASW work, do coastal convoys, and probably mundane stuff like search and rescue and customs inspections if really needed. I feel they're multi-functional enough.
There's a need for a larger ocean-going escort/patrol platform and I could see something like the historical Algerine class being a basis for that.
Note for self, Wikipedia reading suggests Americans went with diesel-electric drive in response to magnetic mines (one system to both propel the ship and energize anti-mine stuff), while British/Canadian designs relied on a range of whatever machinery was at hand, I guess.
A (barely) mobile anti-aircraft battery for use in protecting coastal assets - ports, slow convoys, amphibious operations.
In a desperate situation, the armament can be used at short-range in an anti-surface capacity, and there's the most basic of ASW equipment if that proves necessary. But really it's just there to shoot at airplanes.
A box protects the machinery and bullets from enemy strafing, but obviously won't save the vessel from a serious pounding.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
207 t light; 225 t standard; 239 t normal; 249 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(150.24 ft / 144.36 ft) x 26.25 ft x (3.94 / 4.08 ft)
(45.79 m / 44.00 m) x 8.00 m x (1.20 / 1.24 m)
Armament:
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 77 lbs / 35 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 1 shaft, 402 shp / 300 Kw = 12.50 kts
Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 24 tons
Complement:
29 - 39
Cost:
£0.050 million / $0.199 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 15 tons, 6.1 %
Armour: 50 tons, 21.0 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 7.5 %
- Armour Deck: 31 tons, 13.1 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 13 tons, 5.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 105 tons, 44.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 32 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 10.1 %
- Hull below water: 12 tons
- On freeboard deck: 8 tons
- Above deck: 4 tons
Fittings:
-7t: D-E machinery (BW)
-5t: The basic hydrophone deal (BW)
-4 t: A few depth charges (FD)
-4 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-2 t: Fire control (AD)
-2 t: A searchlight or two (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,047 lbs / 475 Kg = 34.3 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.564
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 12.05 ft / 3.67 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 44.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 201.2 %
Waterplane Area: 2,593 Square feet or 241 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 173 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 120 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.58
- Longitudinal: 8.10
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Pondering options for a larger carrier.
All would have 100mm belts, 50mm deck, and 32 knots. Light displacement a tad under 15,000, and 24 x 1933 vintage aircraft
The main battery is the decision point:
A) 5x2 130mm in M&H; one at the stern, the other four at the corners
B) 2x2 150mm in T&B; one ahead and one behind the island
C) 2x2 150mm in T&B; a superfiring pair behind the island
B&C provide heavier guns for anti-surface defence, but put a big weight on the port side and probably cause some blast damage to the flight deck if fired dead astern or across. Well, the non-superfiring guns. Superfiring 150mm might be high enough to be safe, I dunno.
Note that I'm interpreting the location of the 150mm guns - in the location that the Essex class would have had some - as not requiring a flight-deck cruiser arrangement. It "merely" takes up additional deck space on the port side.
Thoughts?
There is some combo on my laptop that deletes what I was typing. Dunno what it is but ...grrr.
Arms choices.
A I like best.
I presume C is for running
But at 32 knots and carrier freeboards, hard for the Norse to catch.
B is better for killing destroyers in various arcs.
Which I think is more useful.
Sims..
I had not known the Essex had a 6" gun at some point.
This does rather highlight an omission in the Flight Deck Cruiser rules.
Yes, we can point to the 8" turrets on Saratoga and I guess the 6? planned for Essex, but they were both twice the size of this.
Further we know that there were concerns with cross deck fire on Saratoga, and no Essex was actually built with 6".
Plus technically, Saratoga falls under the conversion rules.
Then there's SIM issues - first the barbettes should take up what otherwise would be hanger space,
and due to the height of the flightdeck, should probably be 'double superimposed'.
Add in the surrounding deck structures help brace the barbettes, and more space is lost.
Ultimately, Essex was built with 5" M&H which avoids these problems,
while the Conversion rule absorbs it on Saratoga.
I think if you're pushing into guns needing turrets, then you're wandering out of straight carrier designs.
However, we developed the carrier rules as a group, so this should be more a discussion point as how to best address it.
As Foxxy likes to point out, we want to allow innovation and thinking out of the box....which is why we have a flight deck option.
I also hesitate to install 191 or 152 in casemates on my next 15000t CV.
Artillery against DDs should be enough, so 152.
Other ships in the fleet must provide CV protection.
I'm guilty of poor phrasing - merely meant i was sticking 6" in the same location that Essex had her 5".
Did not mean to imply Essex was designed to ship 6" herself...
I agree the armament doesn't fit neatly into our existing guidelines/rules. If we take any turreted weapon as requiring a flight-deck cruiser, that's fine.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on August 23, 2023, 05:58:18 PM
I agree the armament doesn't fit neatly into our existing guidelines/rules. If we take any turreted weapon as requiring a flight-deck cruiser, that's fine.
It's my inclination to require any Turret & Barbette to use either the 'conversion' (even if new built) or 'flight deck cruiser' aspects.
The practical reason extend beyond just the additional structure already mentioned, there were also substantial recoil
stresses with larger guns, so the hull structure 'scantlings' seem to have been heavier as well.
That does seem to be overkill for 6" turrets...but not for 10"...but if the 6" are "Mount and Hoist" the matter is resolved... until some wants a faithful rendition of Saratoga :)
...that said, I really don't want to just make a declaration here. We built the aviation ship rules in good faith, and they seem to be fairly well done. But if we find unworkable bits, we should be looking to fix them.
I confess to contemplating 10"-armed carriers, but I had those firmly in the flight deck carrier camp.
Been tinkering with the carrier option.
Reduced the belt height and deck thickness, and reduced the 130mm anti-surface battery in exchange for (effectively) four more aircraft and a bit more of a weight reserve. There just isn't room to fit in a TDS. I'd need to add at least 1,000 t to her for that.
I can't help but compare this to a Ryujo, Ranger, or Wasp and think "they have so many more planes". On the other hand Ryujo was overbuilt and had no armor whatsoever, while Ranger and Wasp were both slower and unprotected. If I want to make those same decisions, I'll get similar results, but my calculus is pointing toward speed and protection as priorities.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
14,994 t light; 15,507 t standard; 16,872 t normal; 17,963 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(650.12 ft / 626.97 ft) x 82.02 ft x (22.97 / 24.08 ft)
(198.16 m / 191.10 m) x 25.00 m x (7.00 / 7.34 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck centre
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
8 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 700 lbs / 317 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 407.55 ft / 124.22 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 1.57" / 40 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 119,303 shp / 89,000 Kw = 32.04 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,456 tons
Complement:
739 - 962
Cost:
£4.195 million / $16.780 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 158 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 2,060 tons, 12.2 %
- Belts: 999 tons, 5.9 %
- Armament: 88 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 973 tons, 5.8 %
Machinery: 3,714 tons, 22.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,937 tons, 35.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,877 tons, 11.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,125 tons, 18.5 %
- Hull below water: 1,346 tons
- Hull above water: 1,330 tons
- On freeboard deck: 199 tons
- Above deck: 250 tons
Fittings:
-2,660 t: Airgroup (33/28 A/C), BW/AW
-16 t: 4x1 530mm torpedoes, fixed astern, no reloads, BW
-16 t: Fire control (AD)
-50 t: L/R radio x 2 (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-10 t: Extra S/R radio (AD)
-100 t: Flight operations facilities (AD)
-100 Flag facilities (FD)
-99 + 64 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,405 lbs / 12,431 Kg = 408.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.56 ft / 8.40 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 28.43 ft / 8.66 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 260.8 %
Waterplane Area: 34,263 Square feet or 3,183 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 543 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.11
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
WP Area allows: 48 planes
2660 t allows: 33 or 28 planes
The drawing's what I was aiming for yet makes me think a lot of Yorktown, which I've actually always thought were not attractive ships.
Yeah, it's your speed that hurts you. The Martinique is a touch lighter, with an airgroup of 40 birds at the heavier weight calculation (I'm treating it the same as a nod to some inefficiencies in the Aztec system early on that get fixed about the same time aircraft get significantly heavier). My belt is only a touch lighter, but I have end belts, my deck is 50% thicker, and I'm running a full-up armament on her.
But she's 3 knots slower.
It's just that floating tipping point......where hullform and engine technology no longer help each other.....and you start having to pack on serious engine tonnage to get that speed.
I rather like the Yorktown look. Though I prefer the Implacable's deck edge twin 4.5" AA mounts.
Generally speaking, I don't view Japanese ships as reasonable models. They mistated the weights, skimped on the structure, and kept having to take their ships back in and rebuild them, coming out heavier with changed characteristics.
Ranger and Wasp benefit from a few more years of engine technology ...and I would not be shocked if the USN plants had better power to wieght that SS models. As I recall from poking about to make the rules, for Ryujo and Ranger (dunno Wasp) the listed airgroup was larger than what they found practicable.
Found I could add a bit of length/depth and subtract a bit of width, which reduces the machinery load and lets me put TWO MORE PLANES aboard. So 35 or 30. I'm happier with that.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
14,994 t light; 15,507 t standard; 16,881 t normal; 17,980 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(668.41 ft / 645.01 ft) x 75.46 ft x (24.28 / 25.46 ft)
(203.73 m / 196.60 m) x 23.00 m x (7.40 / 7.76 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck centre
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
8 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 700 lbs / 317 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 419.26 ft / 127.79 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 1.57" / 40 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 115,281 shp / 86,000 Kw = 32.01 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,473 tons
Complement:
739 - 962
Cost:
£4.128 million / $16.512 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 158 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 2,023 tons, 12.0 %
- Belts: 1,014 tons, 6.0 %
- Armament: 88 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 921 tons, 5.5 %
Machinery: 3,589 tons, 21.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,865 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,887 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,359 tons, 19.9 %
- Hull below water: 1,441 tons
- Hull above water: 1,425 tons
- On freeboard deck: 193 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,479 lbs / 12,464 Kg = 409.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.76
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.40 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.22 ft / 8.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 28.48 ft / 8.68 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 246.8 %
Waterplane Area: 32,429 Square feet or 3,013 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 521 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.28
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
WP Area allows: 46 planes
2660 t allows: 35 or 30 planes
An armored gunboat designed primarily with an eye to close-in shore bombardment work. The battery would also suffice to allow trade defence against surface and air threats but I'll have to do a little tweaking to shove an ASW load aboard too.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929
Displacement:
1,798 t light; 1,919 t standard; 2,026 t normal; 2,111 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(303.57 ft / 295.28 ft) x 46.92 ft x (9.84 / 10.16 ft)
(92.53 m / 90.00 m) x 14.30 m x (3.00 / 3.10 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 305 lbs / 138 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 191.93 ft / 58.50 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 103.31 ft / 31.49 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Upper: 1.18" / 30 mm 191.93 ft / 58.50 m 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 6,970 shp / 5,200 Kw = 20.07 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 192 tons
Complement:
150 - 196
Cost:
£0.486 million / $1.944 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 82 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 644 tons, 31.8 %
- Belts: 422 tons, 20.8 %
- Armament: 39 tons, 1.9 %
- Armour Deck: 173 tons, 8.5 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 214 tons, 10.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 588 tons, 29.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 228 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 270 tons, 13.3 %
- Hull below water: 117 tons
- Hull above water: 90 tons
- On freeboard deck: 23 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,859 lbs / 1,750 Kg = 57.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.525
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.17 ft / 4.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.5 %
Waterplane Area: 9,401 Square feet or 873 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 48 lbs/sq ft or 232 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.69
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
117 D-E
If you have a howitzer or something that serves that role, it would be nice.
Naval guns tend to be flat, high velocity fires.
If you don't...which would be normal, that works.
Overall looks like a tough little ship. Mayans could have used some vs. Foxy's raiding DDs.
Question - the D-E drive basically doubles your actual range, so you're looking at 10,000nm
on a littoral gunboat. Works out to 41 days at cruise speed - more than the likely stores on board.
Does it need that much ?
It's a bit high, I agree. I could knock some range off to give me the margin for an ASW suite.
I've got a new 150mm howitzer, but also have a few gunboats specifically equipped with those. This I figured is a direct-fire role: Pillboxes above a beach, hard to spot for ships further out, that sort of thing.
Updated with ASW stuff.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929
Displacement:
1,817 t light; 1,938 t standard; 2,026 t normal; 2,096 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(303.57 ft / 295.28 ft) x 46.92 ft x (9.84 / 10.10 ft)
(92.53 m / 90.00 m) x 14.30 m x (3.00 / 3.08 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 305 lbs / 138 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 191.93 ft / 58.50 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 103.31 ft / 31.49 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Upper: 1.18" / 30 mm 191.93 ft / 58.50 m 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 6,970 shp / 5,200 Kw = 20.07 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 157 tons
Complement:
150 - 196
Cost:
£0.489 million / $1.955 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 82 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 644 tons, 31.8 %
- Belts: 422 tons, 20.8 %
- Armament: 39 tons, 1.9 %
- Armour Deck: 173 tons, 8.5 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 214 tons, 10.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 584 tons, 28.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 209 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 294 tons, 14.5 %
- Hull below water: 132 tons
- Hull above water: 90 tons
- On freeboard deck: 32 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Fittings:
-117 t: D-E machinery (BW)
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-90 t: Torpedo nets (AW)
-10 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-8 t: Fire control (AD)
-10 t: Extra S/R wireless (AD)
-5 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-22 + 17 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,657 lbs / 1,659 Kg = 54.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.524
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.17 ft / 4.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.5 %
Waterplane Area: 9,401 Square feet or 873 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 47 lbs/sq ft or 231 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.69
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
117 D-E
For giggles, a 75mm gun on a tiny hull.
At 20 tonnes, it could be carried as payload on a torpedo-boat carrier, for a short trip between said vessel and a juicy land target worth pumping a few rounds into. Or for some close-in fire support during a raid. Either way, the guntub would be small and difficult to spot, while the larger torpedo-boat carrier would stand off at a safe distance.
Recovery might be a problem if the target has something fast to dispatch as a interceptor, but in that case take the crew aboard an MTB and scuttle the thing, whatever.
Guntub, laid down 1929
Displacement:
20 t light; 21 t standard; 22 t normal; 22 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(54.87 ft / 52.49 ft) x 13.12 ft x (2.46 / 2.50 ft)
(16.72 m / 16.00 m) x 4.00 m x (0.75 / 0.76 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 100 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1929 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 228 shp / 170 Kw = 13.90 kts
Range 100nm at 13.90 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 tons
Complement:
4 - 6
Cost:
£0.009 million / $0.038 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 12.4 %
Machinery: 7 tons, 30.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 9.2 %
- Hull below water: 2 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17 lbs / 8 Kg = 1.3 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.61
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.453
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 7.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 78 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 83
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Average freeboard: 5.67 ft / 1.73 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 141.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.3 %
Waterplane Area: 439 Square feet or 41 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 13 lbs/sq ft or 64 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.55
- Longitudinal: 13.16
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability
Picture of the guntub. Pretend the gun shield isn't there, it isn't, but I do a terrible job of drawing guns without the shielding around it.
Interesting ...and kinda cute.
Kinda a motorized barge with a gun.
I'm a little bummed my closest is a river gunboat 3x heavier.
It is kind of cute. I added a couple to my build plan largely on that basis.
Newer machinery + lower hull strength requirements mean I can build something with the speed and firepower of a Quackenbruck class sloop on a hull 300 t lighter than Quackenbruck.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929
Displacement:
1,425 t light; 1,516 t standard; 1,729 t normal; 1,900 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(309.15 ft / 295.28 ft) x 37.73 ft x (11.81 / 12.65 ft)
(94.23 m / 90.00 m) x 11.50 m x (3.60 / 3.85 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 287 lbs / 130 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 17,426 shp / 13,000 Kw = 26.19 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 384 tons
Complement:
133 - 174
Cost:
£0.607 million / $2.429 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 76 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 46 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 46 tons, 2.7 %
Machinery: 535 tons, 30.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 576 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 304 tons, 17.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 192 tons, 11.1 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 77 tons
- Above deck: 90 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,385 lbs / 628 Kg = 20.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.472
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.83 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 16.14 ft / 4.92 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,166 Square feet or 666 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 223 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.63
- Longitudinal: 3.28
- Overall: 0.75
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Sketching out a refurbishment of the prototype seaplane carrier Oriona.
Aft, a catapult is installed right aft. The crane gets shuffled a few feet forward; it's probably on one side or the other of the deck rather than centreline.
Amidships, a second pair of single 50mm get added on top of the hanger, which still accommodates up to four float-scout-bombers.
Forwards, the superstructure gets rebuilt; whereas before it was a hanger with top hatch in front of a four-level bridge, now it's a wider but shorter hanger opening forward. A two-level superstructure is built on top of it. A second catapult gets plunked on the forecastle. This still accommodates two float-fighters.
In terms of cost, the superstructure work probably means I'll cost it as a refurbishment, but the actual new materials will be very limited - 10 t for the cats, a few tonnes for the additional 2x50mm and replacement of the 10mm with 4x2 15mm. I'll work that out later, the original design has plenty of weight reserve to work with. It'll be in the range of $0.60 and maybe 0.020 BP.
The outcome looks rather brutalist. The ship is still useful, but with four fast seaplane carriers built or being built, I reckon this ship's new peacetime role will be "catapult training ship" for anybody who's going to launch a seaplane off a Union warship.
For the moment, this is just goofing around; but it does give me a sense of the minimum size for a 450mm-armed armored cruiser, if we really want to call something like that an armored cruiser. Obviously I'd need a 270m drydock, but that's not a big deal when I have some 250m as it is.
I've got to develop the 130mm DP, which is not a challenge but might not be available until 1931.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1930
Displacement:
45,992 t light; 48,275 t standard; 51,464 t normal; 54,015 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(871.61 ft / 853.02 ft) x 114.83 ft x (31.17 / 32.38 ft)
(265.67 m / 260.00 m) x 35.00 m x (9.50 / 9.87 m)
Armament:
6 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,976.24lbs / 1,350.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19,003 lbs / 8,619 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 554.46 ft / 169.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 554.46 ft / 169.00 m 29.07 ft / 8.86 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 5.51" / 140 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm Quarter deck: 5.51" / 140 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 14.96" / 380 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 148,793 shp / 111,000 Kw = 30.04 kts
Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,740 tons
Complement:
1,707 - 2,220
Cost:
£16.375 million / $65.499 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,505 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 18,433 tons, 35.8 %
- Belts: 5,829 tons, 11.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,174 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 3,574 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 7,410 tons, 14.4 %
- Conning Tower: 446 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 4,509 tons, 8.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,566 tons, 36.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,472 tons, 10.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 979 tons, 1.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 429 tons
- Above deck: 550 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
88,178 lbs / 39,997 Kg = 31.7 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 15.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 17.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.590 / 0.596
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.15 ft / 9.80 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Average freeboard: 23.18 ft / 7.06 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.6 %
Waterplane Area: 73,954 Square feet or 6,871 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,014 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
I'm going to say that's either a 'Fast Battleship' or a 'Fully Armored Battlecruiser'....depending on point of view
That is one large target....and could be problematic. Not severely so, I already have designs for that tonnage range-
the 42-45,000t Imulhu class, and ...well more...the 57,600t Mastadon class. But I'm trying to hold at 38,000t.
When Parthia demured on attending the Aztec conference there were several reasons, among the many were a curiosity
of where folks would choose to go if there were no limits other than how much of our naval budget do we want to
tie up in one big giant target.
I have a hunch these 46,000 tonners are representing the upper end , after which it's not affordable to build in numbers that are useful.
Just to build 8 of them over 20 years would require 9.2BP/HY - doable, but a very large chunk of the budgets.
But building them in a shorter window starts being very hard.
Ah the joys of budgeting !
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 16, 2023, 10:30:52 PM
That is one large target....and could be problematic. Not severely so, I already have designs for that tonnage range-
the 42-45,000t Imulhu class, and ...well more...the 57,600t Mastadon class. But I'm trying to hold at 38,000t.
When Parthia demured on attending the Aztec conference there were several reasons, among the many were a curiosity
of where folks would choose to go if there were no limits other than how much of our naval budget do we want to
tie up in one big giant target.
I have a hunch these 46,000 tonners are representing the upper end , after which it's not affordable to build in numbers that are useful.
Just to build 8 of them over 20 years would require 9.2BP/HY - doable, but a very large chunk of the budgets.
But building them in a shorter window starts being very hard.
Ah the joys of budgeting !
I concur. I'm building Conqueror. But I think that before she's even launched I'm going to have another lighter BB in the yards, possibly a Mark 3 of the Monarch-class with 9 x 360s at 24kts. Just because the expense of something like Conqueror isn't sustainable for the Aztecs. Not to make a fleet out of. We're going hard towards carriers as a way to unbalance things in our favor, as we're less backwards in the air than we are compared to everyone in other areas. But so long as the battleline is considered useful, there will be a low rate of BB production.
My overall size is modestly constrained by canal sizes both in North Eryka and in Kiel (which I need to dig out a bit more again). If I want to use those pieces of infrastructure, the beam can't be any wider and the draft is just about maxxed out as well.
Cost is not a trivial consideration, either, of course.
I think if I opt to do something like this, I might try to shave it down to 45,000 t to keep the build time at nine turns.
There's also a question about the armament layout; maybe an all-forward layout makes more sense so the gunnery is maximized during approach phases of the engagement. However, I'm doubtful I can get three-gun turrets on a 35m beam, so that suggests a less optimal 3x2 layout.
Quote from: TacCovert4 on September 16, 2023, 10:46:15 PM
I concur. I'm building Conqueror. But I think that before she's even launched I'm going to have another lighter BB in the yards, possibly a Mark 3 of the Monarch-class with 9 x 360s at 24kts. Just because the expense of something like Conqueror isn't sustainable for the Aztecs. Not to make a fleet out of. We're going hard towards carriers as a way to unbalance things in our favor, as we're less backwards in the air than we are compared to everyone in other areas. But so long as the battleline is considered useful, there will be a low rate of BB production.
Back in Wesworld, I inherited fairly limiting treaty provisions when I took over my Dutch- another reason to do that here.
But as ship size escalated, the Dutch were considering offering a treaty amendment to break battlewagons - like cruisers- into "A" and "B',
with the idea of each primary power being allowed 4 'A' and the remainder of their tonnage could be 'B'.
However, verification and enforcement would be ticklish aspects.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 17, 2023, 12:58:01 PM
Quote from: TacCovert4 on September 16, 2023, 10:46:15 PM
I concur. I'm building Conqueror. But I think that before she's even launched I'm going to have another lighter BB in the yards, possibly a Mark 3 of the Monarch-class with 9 x 360s at 24kts. Just because the expense of something like Conqueror isn't sustainable for the Aztecs. Not to make a fleet out of. We're going hard towards carriers as a way to unbalance things in our favor, as we're less backwards in the air than we are compared to everyone in other areas. But so long as the battleline is considered useful, there will be a low rate of BB production.
Back in Wesworld, I inherited fairly limiting treaty provisions when I took over my Dutch- another reason to do that here.
But as ship size escalated, the Dutch were considering offering a treaty amendment to break battlewagons - like cruisers- into "A" and "B',
with the idea of each primary power being allowed 4 'A' and the remainder of their tonnage could be 'B'.
However, verification and enforcement would be ticklish aspects.
It's been interesting to explore a no-Depression and no-WNT world. You CAN make slow BBs at 27,000t Light that can hold up in fights with these monsters like the Empress Amelias, Conquerors, etc....but they're situational only.
Quote from: TacCovert4 on September 17, 2023, 01:53:39 PM
It's been interesting to explore a no-Depression and no-WNT world. You CAN make slow BBs at 27,000t Light that can hold up in fights with these monsters like the Empress Amelias, Conquerors, etc....but they're situational only.
I am more curious as to how different players intend to use their forces.
The really large ships are a result of wanting cruiser speed with battleship guns and armor. .what is the fleet concept for using that?
The high speed is essentially tactical - though for Snip the distance from Havana to his holdings is essentially tactical.
I can see a number of potential uses, the question is which will be chosen, and will it be worth the investment ?
Hmm it's occurred to me we're polluting Rocky's ship thread :)
Probably have covered the bases, though I could split topic and move it if folks want.
My capital ships are fast because I figure it improves the odds of them breaking past the British Isles if I'm at war with Rome or the Northern Kingdom.
Big oiler to support deployments out of Europe - hence the higher speed and the heavy stern armament.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1928
Displacement:
13,126 t light; 13,480 t standard; 15,216 t normal; 16,604 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(485.21 ft / 475.72 ft) x 65.62 ft x (26.25 / 28.28 ft)
(147.89 m / 145.00 m) x 20.00 m x (8.00 / 8.62 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 34,853 shp / 26,000 Kw = 22.97 kts
Range 26,300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,125 tons
Complement:
684 - 890
Cost:
£2.439 million / $9.754 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 78 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 31 tons, 0.2 %
- Armament: 31 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,085 tons, 7.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,180 tons, 20.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,090 tons, 13.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 8,752 tons, 57.5 %
- Hull below water: 4,100 tons
- Hull above water: 4,100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 452 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,654 lbs / 8,008 Kg = 263.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.658
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 25.92 ft / 7.90 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 10.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 60.00 %, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m, 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Average freeboard: 17.24 ft / 5.25 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.0 %
Waterplane Area: 23,913 Square feet or 2,222 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 431 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Nice straightforward fleet oiler. Of course I wouldn't necessarily call it 'heavily' armed.....but hey, I'm building fleet tenders designed to transit the Yucatan Strait.....so they're a bit 'punchy' for fleet tenders to have a chance to survive that.
Several notations
A) availability - everyone has 'sufficient' oil - stemming from home territories.
Oil in the territories is based on if that area had oil
As a hand wave, "naval bases" and "port symbols" have enough for 1-Halfyear of operations by the regularly assigned ships.
B) civilian co-opted - also as part of Snip's design, there are civilian tankers floating around which will divert to support when the player demands.... but they will amble along at 8-12knots and their local number/ size may not as desired.
So building some additional vessels as fleet train can be helpful.
C) Weaponry/Armor vs. Cheap warship
As Foxy observed long time ago, a large aux such as my 'Whale' class can have a substantial battery.
The 2% is based off 'normal' not 'light' which gives a bit more wiggle room.
That is how my Hakma class manage a light TDS.
In the end, large merchants such as this oiler still 'cost' 3.2 BP.... and are not nearly as capable a warship/commerce raider as a proper 3000 ton cruiser....though those are weak as well.
D) A note on oil as range rather than miscellaneous weight.... we've never really had that discussion, I have this vague impression Snip planned on refueling fuel being part of misc wt, but I can't find a policy to that effect, and I don't understand why it would be that way.
So fuel as ...fuel works fine.
E) How much
That said....I'd take a look at your total bunkerage weight, and compare it to what you need to resupply a single deployed battlesquadron.
The new Centaury class carries 2473t of fuel for just itself. This oiler is 3125t.
Your "torpedo boats" had 300ts and the T-U are now up to 500t of fuel, which means your oiler can refuel 6..torpedo boats.
I don't know the design intent, so I can't say if that's plenty or not quite enough.
The bunker is just bunker. There's 8200 t of miscellaneous weight for oiling thirsty ships.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 24, 2023, 04:17:24 PM
The bunker is just bunker. There's 8200 t of miscellaneous weight for oiling thirsty ships.
How'd I miss that?
Anyhow, I'm unsure of why/if it needs to be misc wt.
Opinions?
We used, or at least tolerated, bunker-as-fuel-payload in previous versions of the sim. I did it myself, I think. Seemed reasonable given that we weren't paying for the fuel in other ships (costed at light displacement) so we might as well pay for oilers in their unloaded state. But I think the beginning of this sim may have received direction to use misc. weight.
That argument could probably be applied to dry cargo as well, perhaps, but for now I'd be satisfied just to apply it specifically to fuels.
Anyway, not sure how you missed the miscellaneous weight.
Oil supplies not withstanding, one place where the Union anticipates needing it - yet still not having it - is in the mid-Atlantic after sprinting around the British Isles during a conflict. Otherwise I'd not necessarily be worried about it.
And all that said, I suspect I'll shelf this and opt for a couple more big depot ships instead.
Bunker as fuel could work just fine. But as was noted, typically we're looking at supporting more than just fuel with our replenishment ships. Also, the rule on X tonnage of misc weight supports Y Tonnage of shipping was put in place.....probably so nobody has to actually calculate the full tonnage of fuel requirements for their fleet on various voyages. As it stands, I consider the 'cargo' bunkerage to be its own separate tanks and that the tonnage covers the 'void space' as well as the steel needed to build out the various fuel bunkers and cargo holds. While yes, any of my replenishments ships would probably 'piggyback' its own bunker fuel into a ship that needed fuel....the standard operating procedure for the RAN is to maintain the ship's own bunker capacity for itself.
Sounds like both Rocky and I are remembering the same Mod Clarification from Snip's tenure of <1912.
So lets keep to the Misc wt for now ?
Anyhow,
Miscellaneous weight dedicated to the 'Fleet Support' role would still be needed for any Fleet support tonnage.
This is more about resupply of a base or fleet, where X tons of oil gets split among Y vessels.
Anyhow, if we wind up in an involved discussion, I'll split it into it's own thread.
I do stick with miscellaneous weight as the unambiguous location for fleet support tonnage, no worries there.
The Z-class torpedo-boats are, again, incremental updates on the preceding T-, U- and W- class boats but I decided to sketch this one.
It's a bit faster than the W-class because I need the engine weight to stay above 50%.
The primary difference, really, is that the single 100mm AA is replaced with two twin 50mm/60 cal installations for a heavier volume of fire, albeit at reduced ranges. The gun's still in development in H1/29, so the lead units will receive them via refit.
Like the W-class, a run of 16 units is anticipated.
Z-class, laid down 1929
Displacement:
1,928 t light; 2,023 t standard; 2,289 t normal; 2,503 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(395.26 ft / 383.86 ft) x 36.09 ft x (14.11 / 14.98 ft)
(120.48 m / 117.00 m) x 11.00 m x (4.30 / 4.57 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 44,236 shp / 33,000 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 480 tons
Complement:
165 - 215
Cost:
£1.022 million / $4.089 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 78 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 25 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,148 tons, 50.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 557 tons, 24.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 361 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 121 tons, 5.3 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 51 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Fittings:
-8 t: 1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-24 t: 2x3 21" TT (FD)
-15 t: ASW munitions (FD)
-14 t: Weight reserve (mostly FD)
-10 t: Sonar (BW)
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophones (BW)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
554 lbs / 251 Kg = 8.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Forward deck: 29.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Aft deck: 36.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.67 ft / 4.47 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.8 %
Waterplane Area: 8,579 Square feet or 797 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 177 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
An excellent, powerful and classic design.
;)
Current thinking on the 1929 Rajtar-class armored cruisers. This is very much viewed as a cruiser-killer/trade defence/scouting platform, with no delusions about standing in the line of battle.
The armament is a very new 250/50 cal gun with heavy shells. A conventional secondary and lighter battery is installed, but I might have early DP mounts in service before she's completed and there's a possibility I'll refit in a 130DP + 50mm battery in exchange for the current 130LA + 100AA arrangement.
Armor is intended to protect against cruiser gunfire. I contemplated omitting the TDS but that only saved about 5% of total cost and didn't seem to be worth the meager savings.
The high seakeeping is mostly incidental, but it isn't a bad thing if the ship can ride out Atlantic weather conditions.
I'm considering a run of four hulls, every six months. These would replace the two Grenadjar class ships and otherwise boost the number of mid-sized ACs to eight.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929
Displacement:
20,955 t light; 22,023 t standard; 23,738 t normal; 25,110 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(749.77 ft / 733.27 ft) x 78.74 ft x (28.22 / 29.45 ft)
(228.53 m / 223.50 m) x 24.00 m x (8.60 / 8.98 m)
Armament:
8 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1929 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
6 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority forward
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
6 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,407 lbs / 2,452 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 495.41 ft / 151.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 495.41 ft / 151.00 m 24.84 ft / 7.57 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 2.95" / 75 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 134,049 shp / 100,000 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,087 tons
Complement:
956 - 1,243
Cost:
£7.264 million / $29.057 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,499 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 6,973 tons, 29.4 %
- Belts: 2,623 tons, 11.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 896 tons, 3.8 %
- Armament: 1,177 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 2,138 tons, 9.0 %
- Conning Tower: 140 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,117 tons, 17.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,880 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,783 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 486 tons, 2.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 186 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Fittings:
-150 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-100 t: Command facilities (FD/AD)
-55 t: 2 armed floatplanes and a catapult (FD)
-81/50 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD) for now
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,858 lbs / 14,904 Kg = 68.9 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.517
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.31 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.08 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.82 ft / 9.70 m, 26.90 ft / 8.20 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.90 ft / 8.20 m, 26.90 ft / 8.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Average freeboard: 23.36 ft / 7.12 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.3 %
Waterplane Area: 38,823 Square feet or 3,607 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 697 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Alternately, I can shave the secondary battery, drop the TDS and shave the other protection to cut it down under 18,000 t.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929
Displacement:
17,757 t light; 18,695 t standard; 20,258 t normal; 21,509 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(741.33 ft / 725.07 ft) x 75.46 ft x (25.92 / 27.12 ft)
(225.96 m / 221.00 m) x 23.00 m x (7.90 / 8.27 m)
Armament:
8 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1929 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
6 raised mounts
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,136 lbs / 2,330 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 471.29 ft / 143.65 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 2.56" / 65 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2.56" / 65 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 121,984 shp / 91,000 Kw = 32.06 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,813 tons
Complement:
848 - 1,103
Cost:
£6.506 million / $26.024 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,427 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 4,840 tons, 23.9 %
- Belts: 1,876 tons, 9.3 %
- Armament: 1,134 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,704 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 126 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 3,746 tons, 18.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,231 tons, 35.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,501 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 513 tons, 2.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 213 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,975 lbs / 12,236 Kg = 56.6 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.93 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.17 ft / 9.50 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Average freeboard: 22.70 ft / 6.92 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.2 %
Waterplane Area: 36,454 Square feet or 3,387 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 687 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I think the extra 3000t is well placed, giving you a lot more survivability. As a rule of thumb for me, any cruiser over 8000t is going to have a TDS....heck most of my ships over 8000t have a TDS no matter what.
Speaking of flight-deck cruisers, here's a hypothetical - the laydown date is the earliest I could have a quad on something.
Still, you get decent self-defence and sixteen post-'33 airplanes, so it ain't bad.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1931
Displacement:
12,114 t light; 12,506 t standard; 13,650 t normal; 14,566 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(584.81 ft / 567.59 ft) x 75.46 ft x (22.31 / 23.43 ft)
(178.25 m / 173.00 m) x 23.00 m x (6.80 / 7.14 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1931 Model
1 x 4-gun mount on centreline, aft deck centre
8 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 684 lbs / 310 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 368.93 ft / 112.45 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.97" / 50 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 109,919 shp / 82,000 Kw = 32.06 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,060 tons
Complement:
630 - 820
Cost:
£4.113 million / $16.451 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 185 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 2,113 tons, 15.5 %
- Belts: 1,007 tons, 7.4 %
- Armament: 106 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,001 tons, 7.3 %
Machinery: 3,287 tons, 24.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,758 tons, 34.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,537 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,770 tons, 13.0 %
- Hull below water: 760 tons
- Hull above water: 760 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 150 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,907 lbs / 9,483 Kg = 203.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.82 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 33.79 ft / 10.30 m, 33.79 ft / 10.30 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 33.79 ft / 10.30 m, 33.79 ft / 10.30 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 231.7 %
Waterplane Area: 28,536 Square feet or 2,651 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 106 lbs/sq ft or 516 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.35
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
So I've gone with the guns forward and you've gone with flight deck forward.
Interesting concept. I wonder how much air group you'd lose to get 8 x 150mm guns.
1T4x150 aft...
Is it to escape at 32kts ?
Quote from: TacCovert4 on October 02, 2023, 04:26:35 PM
So I've gone with the guns forward and you've gone with flight deck forward.
Interesting concept. I wonder how much air group you'd lose to get 8 x 150mm guns.
This is "carrier > cruiser" so guns aft.
The additional gun probably costs four planes if at the same deck level as the first one.
Quote from: Jefgte on October 02, 2023, 05:06:31 PM
1T4x150 aft...
Is it to escape at 32kts ?
Absolutely.
I just worry that a single 150mm turret is all your eggs in one basket. And also the bare minimum to get a working shot ladder. I'm a bit ambivalent on if it would be enough to seriously force an 8000t light cruiser to disengage. Honestly I worry a cruiser 6000t or under might still feel comfortable giving it a go. I'd want enough firepower to discourage a cruiser in that 3000 to 6000 ton bracket, maybe even fend off an 8000 tonner. Obviously the big cruisers will have at her, but that's not avoidable.
At Wesworld I did a variation with superfiring triples aft, but we didn't have the same aircraft weight rules or freeboard requirements (any requirements, in fact). The freeboard penalty for a superfiring turret is crippling with our rule set.
I reckon the armament's equal to a pursuing CL's forward battery, which would have to be good enough, and certainly enough to take on a destroyer. Something with the full armament of a CL is either not operating a lot of planes or is a lot bigger than the CL itself.
"I need a 32 knot carrier in eighteen months"
Alright, well, no protection, not much of an anti-surface battery, but you do get sixteen planes on the thing.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1931
Displacement:
8,951 t light; 9,257 t standard; 10,227 t normal; 11,004 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(571.77 ft / 554.46 ft) x 68.90 ft x (18.37 / 19.43 ft)
(174.28 m / 169.00 m) x 21.00 m x (5.60 / 5.92 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 339 lbs / 154 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 92,493 shp / 69,000 Kw = 32.05 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,747 tons
Complement:
508 - 661
Cost:
£3.193 million / $12.774 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 95 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 67 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 67 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,766 tons, 27.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,280 tons, 41.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,276 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,743 tons, 17.0 %
- Hull below water: 760 tons
- Hull above water: 760 tons
- On freeboard deck: 73 tons
- Above deck: 150 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,700 lbs / 7,121 Kg = 234.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.519
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.05 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 284.4 %
Waterplane Area: 25,686 Square feet or 2,386 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 454 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 3.67
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
The Pripyat class light cruisers' primary change from the preceding Oyono class is a new 150mm/50 cal main battery, though additional light AA is also fitted. Or will be before she's done, at any rate.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929
Displacement:
8,350 t light; 8,749 t standard; 9,638 t normal; 10,350 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(595.30 ft / 580.71 ft) x 58.73 ft x (21.98 / 23.13 ft)
(181.45 m / 177.00 m) x 17.90 m x (6.70 / 7.05 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 121.25lbs / 55.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1929 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,206 lbs / 547 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 377.46 ft / 115.05 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 1.57" / 40 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 81,769 shp / 61,000 Kw = 32.04 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,601 tons
Complement:
486 - 632
Cost:
£2.994 million / $11.976 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 324 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 1,952 tons, 20.2 %
- Belts: 996 tons, 10.3 %
- Armament: 278 tons, 2.9 %
- Armour Deck: 639 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,511 tons, 26.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,305 tons, 34.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,289 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 258 tons, 2.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 108 tons
- Above deck: 150 tons
Fittings:
-32 t: 1918 Fire Control (AD) (might be updated before she's done)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-50 t: Command facilities (AD)
-55 t: 2 armed floatplanes and one catapult with hangers aside aft funnel (FD)
-32 t: 2x4 530mm torpedo carriages (no reloads) (FD)
-18 t + 21 t: Weight reserve (AD/FD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,047 lbs / 5,011 Kg = 107.3 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.459
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.89 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.10 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.57 ft / 8.10 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 18.11 ft / 5.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.5 %
Waterplane Area: 21,753 Square feet or 2,021 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 480 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
960nm @ 32 kts
1170nm @ 30 kts
1960nm @ 25 kts
3510nm @ 20 kts
6930nm @ 15 kts
A small icebreaker that would replace the 1899 vintage Sjalland class, because it's about time.
The hull dimensions are quite chonky but appear to reflect historical practice, even the L:B ratio.
The armament is minimal and reflects the expectation that she'll never leave the Baltic, which is a Union Lake in theory. Some fittings allow for limited rescue and salvage work if somebody else is in trouble.
The hull protection pushes this out of mercantile territory and into milspec but what can you do.
The machinery is diesel-electric, which historically became preferred as WW2 came around. Should mean it's responsive in icy waters. There are the two main props aft, which allows for 15.4 knots on 1,500 kw. The forward prop is 500 kw for 11.8 knots, but it turns out the primary purpose of that engine is not ship propulsion. Rather, it's supposed to pull fresh-broken ice from under the bow and send it aft, and in doing so create a pull that weakens the unbroken ice directly ahead of what broke. Or this is what I read, anyway.
Places where I'd normally sketch...uh...railings...are instead solid gunwales, since people want to move around and man their stations without getting soaked by cold seawater splooshing around.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929
Displacement:
748 t light; 767 t standard; 807 t normal; 839 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(139.16 ft / 131.23 ft) x 32.81 ft x (13.12 / 13.51 ft)
(42.42 m / 40.00 m) x 10.00 m x (4.00 / 4.12 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1929 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 85.30 ft / 26.00 m 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Ends: 1.57" / 40 mm 45.90 ft / 13.99 m 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 3 shafts, 2,681 shp / 2,000 Kw = 16.42 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 72 tons
Complement:
75 - 98
Cost:
£0.154 million / $0.617 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 41 tons, 5.0 %
- Belts: 34 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 82 tons, 10.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 262 tons, 32.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 59 tons, 7.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 360 tons, 44.6 %
- Hull below water: 110 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Fittings:
-45 t: D-E machinery (BW)
-20 t: Hull bracing (BW)
-45 t: 40 t water ballast and pumps to move it between tanks (BW)
-100 t: Crew amenities and extra accommodation space for survivors (AW)
-50 t: Towing rig (FD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: Huelsmeyer Device (AD)
-40 t: Weight reserve (AD)
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,597 lbs / 724 Kg = 124.1 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.11 ft / 4.30 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.70 ft / 4.18 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.3 %
Waterplane Area: 2,869 Square feet or 267 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 141 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 47 lbs/sq ft or 232 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 13.93
- Overall: 1.21
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
45 BW for machinery + 20 structural reinforcement + 45 ballast and pumps
11.8 knots on forward 500 kw shaft, 15.4 knots on two main shafts (1500kw)
Seems useful for light ice. Reminds me that I need to build another penguin class ice capability cruiser.
Was doing a bit of goofing around to see what would happen if I suddenly had to comply with Washington Treaty-style limitations.
Didn't work out too well. Can't get my desired speed and armor and eight 400mm guns on 35,000 standard - even with a 3-2-3 main battery.
Okay, this isn't bad, though.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1930
Displacement:
32,998 t light; 34,928 t standard; 37,339 t normal; 39,268 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(706.29 ft / 688.98 ft) x 108.27 ft x (29.20 / 30.44 ft)
(215.28 m / 210.00 m) x 33.00 m x (8.90 / 9.28 m)
Armament:
8 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,024 lbs / 7,722 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 447.83 ft / 136.50 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 447.83 ft / 136.50 m 27.53 ft / 8.39 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck: 5.12" / 130 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm Quarter deck: 5.12" / 130 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 14.96" / 380 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 75,067 shp / 56,000 Kw = 25.01 kts
Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,339 tons
Complement:
1,342 - 1,745
Cost:
£12.757 million / $51.029 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,463 tons, 9.3 %
Armour: 13,649 tons, 36.6 %
- Belts: 4,420 tons, 11.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 898 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 2,870 tons, 7.7 %
- Armour Deck: 5,101 tons, 13.7 %
- Conning Tower: 360 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,275 tons, 6.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,888 tons, 34.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,341 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 723 tons, 1.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 173 tons
- Above deck: 550 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
61,912 lbs / 28,083 Kg = 31.7 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 11.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 7.6 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.605
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 20.16 ft / 6.14 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.1 %
Waterplane Area: 54,557 Square feet or 5,068 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 981 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
13,800 nm @ 12 kts
8,400 nm @ 15 kts
4,200 nm @ 20 kts
1,700 nm @ 27 kts
Was thinking about re-gunning the Wrogi class battleships, which are, admittedly getting long in the tooth. 4x3 300mm in triple mounts, at 445 t per turret.
My first thought was to replace them with 2-gun 350mm/45. Nope, those would be 552 t each.
Okay, what about 4-gun 250mm/50. Nope, that's a whopping 623 t. In fact, even a 3-gun is too big at 467 t.
Well, what's the biggest 50 cal 2-gun mount I could do? It turns out a 2-gun 305/50 is also 445 t.
So maybe I'll just leave the Wrogi class alone after all.
Can't hardly move on account of being kicked by a horse two weeks ago, so Saturday night is for goofing around on the couch (with my leg elevated).
This would be using the flight-deck cruiser rules for a self-screening battleship. The main battery isn't optimized for shooting flat ahead, but the 450mm shouldn't be shooting at point-blank ranges anyway. A heavy secondary battery is present, though the two mounts behind the 450mm might not be popular or even inhabitable if the main battery is firing into the aft arc.
The airgroup is notionally 16 fighters and 4 scouts, with one or two catapults. While the deck is not really long - about 445 feet - it is definitely really wide and should at least be useful for handling and spotting. Chances are the hanger is slightly offset to starboard to make up for that honker of an island on the port side.
The hanger is 6.5 m high, rather than the minimum 5.5m for the rules - otherwise the clearance over the main battery turrets is kind of iffy.
At the moment I don't have an armored conning tower - putting right behind the main battery, under the flight deck, leaves it with no view. Putting it on the island puts a lot of weight way up high on a side. I might go for a lightly-protected one on the island if I play further.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1931
Displacement:
44,893 t light; 47,259 t standard; 49,921 t normal; 52,051 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(811.76 ft / 787.40 ft) x 114.83 ft x (31.17 / 32.27 ft)
(247.43 m / 240.00 m) x 35.00 m x (9.50 / 9.84 m)
Armament:
6 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,976.24lbs / 1,350.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
20 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
20 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 19,295 lbs / 8,752 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 28.61 ft / 8.72 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 5.91" / 150 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 4.72" / 120 mm Quarter deck: 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 134,048 shp / 100,000 Kw = 28.04 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,792 tons
Complement:
1,669 - 2,170
Cost:
£16.738 million / $66.951 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,592 tons, 7.2 %
Armour: 15,989 tons, 32.0 %
- Belts: 5,005 tons, 10.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,066 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 2,628 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 7,289 tons, 14.6 %
Machinery: 4,009 tons, 8.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,490 tons, 37.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,028 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,813 tons, 5.6 %
- Hull below water: 950 tons
- Hull above water: 950 tons
- On freeboard deck: 313 tons
- Above deck: 600 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
99,055 lbs / 44,931 Kg = 35.6 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 15.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 8.7 ft / 2.6 m
Roll period: 16.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.73
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.620 / 0.624
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 30.87 ft / 9.41 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 41.01 ft / 12.50 m, 41.01 ft / 12.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 41.01 ft / 12.50 m, 41.01 ft / 12.50 m
- Average freeboard: 32.31 ft / 9.85 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 252.3 %
Waterplane Area: 67,373 Square feet or 6,259 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,015 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
I'll probably continue playing with the concept for my amusement, but a bit of sketching suggests that I'd have some trouble fitting the forward 450mm turret into that hull with that beam. So I might re-do with a higher BC or maybe 400/50 3-guns instead.
Also for my amusement, a screening cruiser that keeps most of its guns in deck-level casement galleries, allowing rather stupidly large broadsides and an ability to put out a lot of firepower on both beams.
Sight lines for the non-casemate guns are probably pretty good.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929
Displacement:
7,881 t light; 8,612 t standard; 9,468 t normal; 10,153 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(540.81 ft / 524.93 ft) x 55.77 ft x (22.64 / 23.87 ft)
(164.84 m / 160.00 m) x 17.00 m x (6.90 / 7.27 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
24 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in casemate mounts, 1929 Model
24 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mount, 1929 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,232 lbs / 1,012 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 380.58 ft / 116.00 m 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 2.95" / 75 mm 380.58 ft / 116.00 m 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.57" / 40 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 87,131 shp / 65,000 Kw = 32.03 kts
Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,541 tons
Complement:
479 - 623
Cost:
£3.140 million / $12.558 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 474 tons, 5.0 %
Armour: 1,827 tons, 19.3 %
- Belts: 1,076 tons, 11.4 %
- Armament: 150 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 573 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,676 tons, 28.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,683 tons, 28.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,587 tons, 16.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 221 tons, 2.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 121 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,301 lbs / 3,765 Kg = 123.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.41 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Average freeboard: 21.06 ft / 6.42 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.3 %
Waterplane Area: 19,507 Square feet or 1,812 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 413 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 2.06
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Warning: Wrong mount for dual purpose gun - 2nd battery - I get it, I'm thinking anti torpedo bomber work here.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on November 12, 2023, 01:45:33 PM
Also for my amusement, a screening cruiser that keeps most of its guns in deck-level casement galleries, allowing rather stupidly large broadsides and an ability to put out a lot of firepower on both beams.
Warning: Wrong mount for dual purpose gun - 2nd battery - I get it, I'm thinking anti torpedo bomber work here.
I would NEVER do something like that, simply Un-Bavarian.
Oh wait, in this rendition I'm playing the Parthians who most definitely do such things...
Heck, I've posted a carrier along these lines...
DP :
I think that's one of the warnings that can be deleted in favor of the Clarity of 'yes, these casement guns are expected to be used for AA'.
Considering the USS Maryland was 'refurbished' to have 5"/38 DPs in the casements, which were then drilled at AA and issued some preset time fuse for barrage, and later prox fuse....there's precedent.
Yeah, I thought you might be intrigued by that.
Too fast and not enough armor but what can I say.
Quote...
Displacement:
7,881 t light; 8,612 t standard; 9,468 t normal; 10,153 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(540.81 ft / 524.93 ft) x 55.77 ft x (22.64 / 23.87 ft)
(164.84 m / 160.00 m) x 17.00 m x (6.90 / 7.27 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
24 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in casemate mounts, 1929 Model
24 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread...
I prefer 4 x 2000t DDs with 4T2x130 (32x130 in all)
Well that's no fun, Jef.
Starting to think about near-future battlecruisers. I've got two Szermierz class (1916 lay down) and two Czarownik class (1919 lay down), so it's almost been twenty years since the former were started.
Szermierz is 33,000 t, 9x350mm, 29.5 knots. Czarownik, though only three years younger, is 39,000 t, 8x400mm, 30 knots, and much more range, so definitely much more capable.
Notionally I could:
A) Give the four existing ships refurbishments, keep them going another 10-15 years, and build two new heavy units
B) Just refit Szermierzs, refurb Czarowniks, and built two heavy units to replace Szermierzs.
C) Build a batch of four and just plan to replace them all.
Then comes the question of what to build, and it's really just a question of how big the guns would be: Anywhere from 350mm up to the hypothetical 500mm pieces. Since I lean toward heavy armor and high speeds, an 8x350mm ship probably starts around 40,000 t, topping out around 55,000 t for the heavier-gunned designs.
So lots of options going on.
I'd presume that Rome would be building to at least match my Sovereign-types, so figure that 400mm+ guns on 50,000+ tons with 30kts or so is becoming a relatively common new-model battleship these days.
They may be, but I'm not convinced I want to invest in something quite that big.
I/Parthia looked at ships in that size range and decided they were not worth the extra cost.
Strategically, I would rather have 5x 45,000 than 4x55,000 ships with the same guns/similar or weaker armor, and a modest speed boost. I very nearly stuck with the 39,000 ton designs, for ~6 ships, but liked the 45k combo pack better, though the 6 would have been interesting. But more hulls= More deployment options, guns, more FC directors, far harder to sink, less critical if they are knocked of service, and if underwater damage caps speed to 19-20knts, not as critical. Etc.
The large and fast Roman ships continue to be a concern, but that high speed seems tactical, not strategic.
I have a hard time envisioning how they will be used, as steaming for any distance at that speed empties bunkers rapidly.
Tactically, the speed margin could be used to slowly overhaul and catch slower ships, such as my older cruisers. Granted, it would take 1/2 hour or more to crank up to max speed. My newer cruisers have a margin in cruising speed, which both makes it harder for submarines to attack them, and give me a starting speed advantage to open ranges. The Romans might be 1-2 knots faster, but would take a very long time to catch up. Even so, I've been boosting the speed of my smaller ships not because of Byzantine changes* but as a result of keeping an eye on bigger Roman units, expecting the IJN to be similar speed-wise.
*As the Byzantines have similar speeds to the Parthians, going much faster just means I have to pay more tonnage for the same guns/armor, or have a faster but weaker ship than the Byzantine.
The Parthians definitely don't have the same need for speed. I was noting that the Union might find more need for that speed given they're operating in the same waters for their most vital trade routes.
Certainly the big and fast Roman ships are a major driver for the RAN to have those huge fast BBs of it's own, as we can't build the numbers.....and we can also get away with lower deployment numbers as our most vital trade lanes are all in the Caribbean, and we can use our cruisers to handle things worldwide.
The completion of the D-class torpedo-boats as flagship-tenders means that the older N-class boats can now be taken out of that same role and utilized elsewhere.
The current notion right now is to replace the armament, to remove the oversized masts (with extra flag lockers and stuff) and extra short-range radio, and install some new sensors and fire control.
The existing flag facilities would be pared back but retained to a point, allowing them to function as torpedo-boat leaders in colonial and home waters.
Individual costs as refits would be $0.19 and 0.121 BP. There are four units.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917
Displacement:
1,483 t light; 1,552 t standard; 1,760 t normal; 1,926 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(374.96 ft / 362.86 ft) x 32.81 ft x (12.47 / 13.25 ft)
(114.29 m / 110.60 m) x 10.00 m x (3.80 / 4.04 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck centre
2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.12" / 3 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30,161 shp / 22,500 Kw = 31.14 kts
Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 375 tons
Complement:
135 - 176
Cost:
£0.343 million / $1.373 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 41 tons, 2.3 %
- Guns: 41 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 10 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 881 tons, 50.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 401 tons, 22.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 277 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 8.5 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 75 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons
Fittings:
-25 t: Sonar and enhanced hydrophones BW
-16 t: 1x4 530mm torpedo carriage FD
-10 t: ASW stuff TBD, FD
-40 t: Reduced flag facilities, FD
-9 t: Weight reserve FD
-25 t: L/R wireless AD
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads AD
-10 t: destroyer-scale Huelsmeyer device AD
-5 t: Fire control
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
444 lbs / 201 Kg = 14.5 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.415 / 0.427
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 12.99 ft / 3.96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.7 %
Waterplane Area: 7,397 Square feet or 687 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 149 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 0.54
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Warning: Date too early for dual purpose gun - Main Battery