New ships go here.
An improvement on the preceding E-Class, the F-Class Destroyer is built to the same basic design. It trades the E-Class's limited torpedo reloads for a more powerful 530mm weapon. It is also slightly faster. This class also marks the first time that new construction is being officially deemed replacements in recent history. 20 of these ships are planned to replace all the non-turbine engined Destroyers (A and B Class). It is expected to take until about mid-1912 to complete the program.
QuoteF-Class, Imperial Roman Republic Destroyer laid down 1910
Displacement:
1,000 t light; 1,036 t standard; 1,107 t normal; 1,164 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(285.43 ft / 278.87 ft) x 29.53 ft x (11.48 / 11.88 ft)
(87.00 m / 85.00 m) x 9.00 m x (3.50 / 3.62 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.94lbs / 1.34kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 135 lbs / 61 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,000 shp / 19,396 Kw = 30.95 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 129 tons
Complement:
95 - 124
Cost:
£0.127 million / $0.507 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 25 tons, 2.3 %
- Guns: 25 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 23 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 2.0 %
Machinery: 608 tons, 54.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 279 tons, 25.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 107 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 65 tons, 5.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 65 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
288 lbs / 131 Kg = 9.5 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.85
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.417
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.89 ft / 0.27 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 12.43 ft / 3.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 183.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.9 %
Waterplane Area: 5,099 Square feet or 474 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 48 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 143 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.12
- Overall: 0.58
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Misc Distribution
--On Deck (65t)
----36t 12x530mm Torpedos [Two triple tube mounts per side]
----4t Improved torpedo reload equipment.
----10t Short-Range Wireless
----5t Improved spray protections for Torpedo tubes
----5t Minesweeping Paravanes
----5t Construction Reserve.
When the full details of the Norse Wicklow class (https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7084.msg90505.html#msg90505) battlecruisers came to light, the Roman Admiralty realised they had no ships capable of contesting them. On completion, the two new ships along with the Selkirkshire Class would give the Norse a uncounterable advantage in scouting. While the limitations imposed by the length of facilities available would mean a delay in starting construction, it did mean the ships would be considered very large. The first design took full advantage of this length. This resulted in protection that was less than ideal.
Quote
1910 Design A, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
28,209 t light; 29,630 t standard; 31,000 t normal; 32,096 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(797.24 ft / 787.40 ft) x 90.22 ft x (26.25 / 27.00 ft)
(243.00 m / 240.00 m) x 27.50 m x (8.00 / 8.23 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 12,289 lbs / 5,574 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.69" / 170 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 275.56 ft / 83.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 23.46 ft / 7.15 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 83.66 ft / 25.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 110,000 shp / 82,060 Kw = 29.05 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,466 tons
Complement:
1,167 - 1,518
Cost:
£2.723 million / $10.891 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,602 tons, 8.4 %
- Guns: 2,602 tons, 8.4 %
Armour: 7,321 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 3,163 tons, 10.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 525 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,793 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,631 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 209 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,545 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,951 tons, 38.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,791 tons, 9.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,790 tons, 5.8 %
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,066 lbs / 17,720 Kg = 32.6 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.582 / 0.586
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.73 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.18 ft / 0.97 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.27 ft / 5.57 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.46 ft / 5.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.3 %
Waterplane Area: 51,085 Square feet or 4,746 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 934 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.17
- Longitudinal: 0.95
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
The second design boasts increased thickness for the main belt, as it is 20m shorter. It is otherwise identical.
Quote1910 Design B, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
25,783 t light; 27,152 t standard; 28,422 t normal; 29,438 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 90.22 ft x (26.25 / 27.01 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 27.50 m x (8.00 / 8.23 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 12,289 lbs / 5,574 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 83.66 ft / 25.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 110,000 shp / 82,060 Kw = 29.16 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,287 tons
Complement:
1,093 - 1,422
Cost:
£2.638 million / $10.552 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,602 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 2,602 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 7,342 tons, 25.8 %
- Belts: 3,353 tons, 11.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 1,793 tons, 6.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,495 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 197 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,545 tons, 16.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,504 tons, 33.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,639 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,790 tons, 6.3 %
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,907 lbs / 14,926 Kg = 27.4 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.582 / 0.586
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.0 %
Waterplane Area: 46,833 Square feet or 4,351 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 818 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.05
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
A second version of this design with lighter, but less efficient, direct drive turbines was also produced. The weight savings again went to armor protection.
Quote1910 Design C, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
25,783 t light; 27,152 t standard; 28,422 t normal; 29,438 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 90.22 ft x (26.25 / 27.01 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 27.50 m x (8.00 / 8.23 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 12,289 lbs / 5,574 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 83.66 ft / 25.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 110,000 shp / 82,060 Kw = 29.16 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,287 tons
Complement:
1,093 - 1,422
Cost:
£2.638 million / $10.552 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,602 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 2,602 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 8,326 tons, 29.3 %
- Belts: 4,057 tons, 14.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 1,793 tons, 6.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,775 tons, 6.2 %
- Conning Tower: 197 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,545 tons, 16.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,520 tons, 33.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,639 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 790 tons, 2.8 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34,033 lbs / 15,437 Kg = 28.4 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.582 / 0.586
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.0 %
Waterplane Area: 46,833 Square feet or 4,351 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 819 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.06
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
These two designs were softly combined, with a reduction in bunkerage on Design B to take advantage of the increase in efficiency and give it similar range to Design C. While not as well protected, it maintains the other advantages of Electric drives.
Quote1910 Design D, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
25,928 t light; 27,297 t standard; 28,422 t normal; 29,322 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 90.22 ft x (26.25 / 26.92 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 27.50 m x (8.00 / 8.21 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 12,289 lbs / 5,574 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.46" / 215 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 83.66 ft / 25.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 110,000 shp / 82,060 Kw = 29.16 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,025 tons
Complement:
1,093 - 1,422
Cost:
£2.643 million / $10.572 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,602 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 2,602 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 7,553 tons, 26.6 %
- Belts: 3,564 tons, 12.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 1,793 tons, 6.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,495 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 197 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,545 tons, 16.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,438 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,494 tons, 8.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,790 tons, 6.3 %
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,723 lbs / 14,843 Kg = 27.3 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.582 / 0.585
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.0 %
Waterplane Area: 46,833 Square feet or 4,351 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 813 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.04
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Interesting set of Battlecruiser designs.
I really haven't been able to keep up with other nation's vessels except here and there.
Worse, I was one of the first to post, so I suspect there may be replies to my vessels....but I don't have replies to those replies !
The Wicklow are a 1909 class, so these are 1910 reaction.... that's always a hard one to roleplay.
They seem pretty solid ships for the task.
I like that you're sticking to Electric drive, it's on my "to do" list, primarily as a Torpedo survival measure, but I haven't gotten there yet, having gone Nets-> Nets+standoff bulge -> TDS ->layered TDS....then Electric.
Speaking of which, your depth of TDS system suggests only 1m of standoff from the hull, which is even less than the Wicklow's 1.5m.
You invest quite heavily in tall belts, and with the high speeds of these vessels that may be reasonable, but a little thicker might be better if your goal to engage the Wicklow's in combat with these. Right now neither has the belt armor to take on the other at any combat range, but (ok this, like much of what I babble on about, is based on scattered readings over the years) I don't think your 50mm decks are not proof against splinters from large caliber shells such as the Wicklow has. The 60mm is far more reasonable.
Upper belts - I made comment to Jefgte about this - 50mm is nothing more than HE or splinter armor, it's not really an upper belt. From what I understand, they couldn't even make effective KC armor below 100mm (later 88-90mm)- it will never take a SAP or AP round. So I don't think it's appropriate until you have "All or Nothing" armor- that's the Tech that allows you to abandon proper upper belts. However, that tech can't be researched until 1910.
Also, if you're looking to engage the Norse, I presume offensive operations are part of the package, which means operating in the North Atlantic and North Sea, so perhaps a higher forecastle?
Will hit a couple things, as you make some good points.
Re TDS: Ya, its narrow, but if I try and give it more space the belts need to be extended more. Doing that just breaks the design and I've yet to be able to unbreak it to my satisfaction. It might be something I can fix with some other modifications, more on that below.
Re Armor Layout: The current layout is a reflection of that the Navy is looking at these as being closer to battleships rather than cruisers. This is due in part to them sporting the same main guns as the battleline. I will probably try drumming up a revision or two of Design D with a more cruiser-like armor layout to improve the thickness of protection at the expense of protected volume. This will also touch on the 50mm plate concern, both for decks and belts.
Re Engagement: These are less intended to counter to the Wicklows and more to be peers. What the Wicklow represents to the Romans (this is without regard for Walter's intent on their use) is the ability to serve as a "Battle Scout" that is capable of both 1) Maintain contact with limited fear of retaliation and 2) Denigh the same capability to the hostile forces. Right now, the Roman Navy can for sure do the former between the fast cruisers and the new E and F class destroyers. What those ships lack is the capability to force hostile heavy scouts off (assuming we are talking single-ship action). By constructing similar ships, it ensures that the Wicklows or other future ships like them do not have the ability to scout the Roman battleline unmolested.
Regarding further development of the "battlecruiser" concept: What really hinders these ships is my lack of any gun between 210mm and 340mm. With a smaller weapon (eg a 280mm), it would be easier to get higher speeds (more to the Battlescout concept) or better protection (more in the direction of Fast Battleship). Of course it possible to make both these happen with more tonnage, but that is not spending I'm at liberty to make right now. There are two paths this could follow prior to the emergence of true Fast Battleships mostly obsoleting the battlecruiser's nich as Rome sees it.
1) The Wicklow and other ships like her are fewer in number. If this remains the case the 1910 ships will probably be the only examples of their kind for some time. A second class might be constructed near the middle-late of the decade to ensure continued competitiveness in the sub class. In this case, the battlescout role is likely to pass to a smaller and cheaper armored cruiser type. These would be armed with a intermediary gun, ether the existing 210mm, an more modern version, or something new. Capable of building multiple for the cost of one battlecruiser, what they cannot obtain in survivability they can make up for in the number of places they can be.
2) The Wicklow and the 1910 Battlecruiser are merely the first of a rapidly expanding class of warships. Here the 1910 ships would be the opening entry from the Imperial Navy into the Battlecruiser class. There would probably be a greater number of single ship classes or related sub-classes to keep abreast of technical developments while still providing for a strong battleline. In this case, there would likely exist little between the current size of cruisers (assuming there is no great development on that front for a time) and the capital ships. The priority would be ensuring there were enough supporting ships for the big capitals rather than pursuing any intermediary classes. With this path, the way would be clear to spend the necessary tonnage to make the 340mm guns (or a successor) work as the ships would clearly need to sport battleship weapons.
A) TDS: I was pointing to your beam between torpedo bulkheads setting at 25.5.
The overall beam I didn't bother looking at closely, though since they are triples, I should....
um, the twin 13.5" British ships - with no real TDS, were 27.1-27.6,
So with the triple 13.4", the breeches are going to be cramped. My own rule of thumb is I try to remember to add at least 1-2m to account for the space the extra breech and room to work it takes.
B) Armor, the armor scheme* works very well if you're looking at killing Armored Cruisers, or maybe even 11-12" guns. So if you're not thinking of engaging the Wicklows, it could be fine. If you are, the listing for the Orion-Class's 13.5" gun puts the expected armor penetration for an Uncapped AP shell at 10,000yards at 12.2 inches. With 1910 artillery tech available, you're starting to think about capped shells, which will drive penetration up. My belts are thicker because my shells are larger, and they aren't that high because I still use a protective deck scheme for a little bit more :)
*I still hold that "upper belts" under 90mm should wait for All-or-nothing
Parthia is going to look around and see these things floating in the North Sea and be very puzzled about what to do about them. However, Jefgte will probably have to respond first. That will dictate what I do with my Armored Cruiser/Battlecruiser designs.
Designs E and F are slight variations on Design D, which is seen as the best to build off of. The beam is increased by 1m, displacement increased by 1000t. Both designs thicken the Upper Belt to 100mm and the main deck to 60mm. Design E keeps the same armor layout as the battleships while Design F trades height of the main belt for 40mm more protection and some minor increases in end deck, end belt, and casemate armor thickness.
Quote1910 Design E, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
26,882 t light; 28,272 t standard; 29,422 t normal; 30,342 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 93.50 ft x (26.25 / 26.91 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 28.50 m x (8.00 / 8.20 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 12,289 lbs / 5,574 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.27" / 210 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 83.66 ft / 25.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 110,000 shp / 82,060 Kw = 28.96 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,071 tons
Complement:
1,123 - 1,460
Cost:
£2.676 million / $10.706 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,602 tons, 8.8 %
- Guns: 2,602 tons, 8.8 %
Armour: 8,200 tons, 27.9 %
- Belts: 3,863 tons, 13.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,793 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,839 tons, 6.2 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,545 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,746 tons, 33.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,540 tons, 8.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,790 tons, 6.1 %
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,411 lbs / 16,062 Kg = 29.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 7.3 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.581 / 0.585
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.2 %
Waterplane Area: 48,506 Square feet or 4,506 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 819 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.04
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Quote1910 Design F, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
26,882 t light; 28,272 t standard; 29,422 t normal; 30,342 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 93.50 ft x (26.25 / 26.91 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 28.50 m x (8.00 / 8.20 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 12,289 lbs / 5,574 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 83.66 ft / 25.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 110,000 shp / 82,060 Kw = 28.96 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,071 tons
Complement:
1,123 - 1,460
Cost:
£2.676 million / $10.706 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,602 tons, 8.8 %
- Guns: 2,602 tons, 8.8 %
Armour: 8,153 tons, 27.7 %
- Belts: 3,693 tons, 12.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,849 tons, 6.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,905 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,545 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,793 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,540 tons, 8.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,790 tons, 6.1 %
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,381 lbs / 16,048 Kg = 29.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.581 / 0.585
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.2 %
Waterplane Area: 48,506 Square feet or 4,506 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 169 lbs/sq ft or 823 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.04
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Design G trades triple turrets for twins, reducing the number of barrels to six. This allows for a massive increase in the main belt thickness, as well as almost a knot increase in speed. Additional space is provided for the TDS as well.
Quote1910 Design G, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
27,089 t light; 28,255 t standard; 29,405 t normal; 30,325 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 93.50 ft x (26.25 / 26.91 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 28.50 m x (8.00 / 8.20 m)
Armament:
6 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 8,651 lbs / 3,924 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 80.38 ft / 24.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 124,000 shp / 92,504 Kw = 29.85 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,070 tons
Complement:
1,122 - 1,459
Cost:
£2.426 million / $9.705 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,836 tons, 6.2 %
- Guns: 1,836 tons, 6.2 %
Armour: 9,187 tons, 31.2 %
- Belts: 4,853 tons, 16.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,502 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,128 tons, 7.2 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 5,124 tons, 17.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,152 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,316 tons, 7.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,790 tons, 6.1 %
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,809 lbs / 17,150 Kg = 31.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 7.8 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.581 / 0.584
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.3 %
Waterplane Area: 48,491 Square feet or 4,505 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 748 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Design H does more to the guns. Again twin turrets are used, this time with two each for and aft. The reduction from nine barrels to eight allows for some improvement to the main belt and additional room for the TDS.
Quote1910 Design H, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
26,940 t light; 28,255 t standard; 29,405 t normal; 30,325 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 93.50 ft x (26.25 / 26.91 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 28.50 m x (8.00 / 8.20 m)
Armament:
8 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 11,076 lbs / 5,024 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 81.20 ft / 24.75 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 110,000 shp / 82,060 Kw = 28.97 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,070 tons
Complement:
1,122 - 1,459
Cost:
£2.566 million / $10.262 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,346 tons, 8.0 %
- Guns: 2,346 tons, 8.0 %
Armour: 8,868 tons, 30.2 %
- Belts: 4,428 tons, 15.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,897 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,838 tons, 6.3 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,545 tons, 15.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,390 tons, 31.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,465 tons, 8.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,790 tons, 6.1 %
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,944 lbs / 16,757 Kg = 30.8 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 7.4 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.581 / 0.584
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.3 %
Waterplane Area: 48,491 Square feet or 4,505 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 784 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
An Improved Lauri class cruiser. Faster with slightly modified protection.
Quote1910 Design A, Imperial Roman Republic Cruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
4,893 t light; 5,066 t standard; 5,505 t normal; 5,857 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(485.58 ft / 475.72 ft) x 47.57 ft x (16.40 / 17.21 ft)
(148.00 m / 145.00 m) x 14.50 m x (5.00 / 5.24 m)
Armament:
7 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 655 lbs / 297 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.56" / 65 mm 389.63 ft / 118.76 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 126 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46,000 shp / 34,316 Kw = 29.44 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 791 tons
Complement:
319 - 415
Cost:
£0.514 million / $2.055 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 218 tons, 4.0 %
- Guns: 218 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 994 tons, 18.1 %
- Belts: 323 tons, 5.9 %
- Armament: 27 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 625 tons, 11.4 %
- Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,901 tons, 34.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,594 tons, 29.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 613 tons, 11.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 185 tons, 3.4 %
- Hull below water: 5 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 105 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,935 lbs / 1,785 Kg = 47.0 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.519 / 0.526
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.69 ft / 0.82 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 9.05 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 36.90 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Quarter deck: 9.05 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 15.54 ft / 4.74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 125.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.1 %
Waterplane Area: 15,344 Square feet or 1,426 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 341 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Moving forward with the 1910 Battlecruiser, Designs E and G have been selected for further development. Both designs trade a little bit of speed for some additional wiggle room that is used on some additional guns. Both designs received proper Misc weight allocations as well. The question is do the gains in protection and speed on Design G outweigh the decrease in firepower and inaccuracy of spotting from Design E.
Quote1910 E2, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
26,827 t light; 28,255 t standard; 29,405 t normal; 30,325 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 93.50 ft x (26.25 / 26.91 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 28.50 m x (8.00 / 8.20 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 450 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,487 lbs / 5,664 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.27" / 210 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 83.66 ft / 25.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 108,000 shp / 80,568 Kw = 28.83 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,070 tons
Complement:
1,122 - 1,459
Cost:
£2.673 million / $10.690 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,633 tons, 9.0 %
- Guns: 2,633 tons, 9.0 %
Armour: 8,190 tons, 27.9 %
- Belts: 3,854 tons, 13.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,793 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,838 tons, 6.3 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,463 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,741 tons, 33.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,578 tons, 8.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,800 tons, 6.1 %
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 400 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,622 lbs / 16,158 Kg = 29.7 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 7.3 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.581 / 0.584
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.3 %
Waterplane Area: 48,491 Square feet or 4,505 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 821 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.04
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Misc Distribution
--Below Water(1200t)
----1120t Electric Drives
----40t Additional Pumps
----40t Reserve
--Above Water (100t)
----30t Flag Fag Facilities
----30t Improved Officer Accommodations
----30t Improved Crew Accommodations
----10t Short Range Wireless
--On Deck (400t)
----265t 1908 Fire Control
----25t Long Range Wireless
----40t Admiralty Accommodations
----40t Flag Facilities
----30t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (100t)
----50t Improved Aquisition Structures
----30t Improved Signaling Equipment
----20t Additional Searchlights
Quote1910 G2, Imperial Roman Republic Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
27,049 t light; 28,255 t standard; 29,405 t normal; 30,325 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.64 ft / 721.78 ft) x 93.50 ft x (26.25 / 26.91 ft)
(223.00 m / 220.00 m) x 28.50 m x (8.00 / 8.20 m)
Armament:
6 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 450 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,849 lbs / 4,014 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 252.59 ft / 76.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.18" / 30 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 24.54 ft / 7.48 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 80.38 ft / 24.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp / 89,520 Kw = 29.61 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,070 tons
Complement:
1,122 - 1,459
Cost:
£2.411 million / $9.645 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,867 tons, 6.4 %
- Guns: 1,867 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 9,178 tons, 31.2 %
- Belts: 4,843 tons, 16.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 503 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,502 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,128 tons, 7.2 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,959 tons, 16.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,146 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,356 tons, 8.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,900 tons, 6.5 %
- Hull below water: 1,300 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 400 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38,298 lbs / 17,372 Kg = 31.9 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 7.8 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.581 / 0.584
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.40 ft / 0.73 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Average freeboard: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.3 %
Waterplane Area: 48,491 Square feet or 4,505 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 749 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Misc Distribution
--Below Water(1300t)
----1240t Electric Drives
----40t Additional Pumps
----20t Reserve
--Above Water (100t)
----30t Flag Fag Facilities
----30t Improved Officer Accommodations
----30t Improved Crew Accommodations
----10t Short Range Wireless
--On Deck (400t)
----190t 1908 Fire Control
----25t Long Range Wireless
----40t Admiralty Accommodations
----40t Flag Facilities
----105t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (100t)
----50t Improved Aquisition Structures
----30t Improved Signaling Equipment
----20t Additional Searchlights
A revision to the F-Class Destroyer to better match the 750t E-Class Design. Little faster, with less Misc weight.
QuoteF-Class, Imperial Roman Republic Destroyer laid down 1910
Displacement:
1,000 t light; 1,035 t standard; 1,106 t normal; 1,163 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(287.07 ft / 278.87 ft) x 29.53 ft x (11.48 / 11.87 ft)
(87.50 m / 85.00 m) x 9.00 m x (3.50 / 3.62 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.94lbs / 1.33kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 129 lbs / 59 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 28,000 shp / 20,888 Kw = 31.49 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 128 tons
Complement:
95 - 124
Cost:
£0.129 million / $0.515 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 2.1 %
- Guns: 24 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 20 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 20 tons, 1.8 %
Machinery: 624 tons, 56.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 282 tons, 25.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 106 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
275 lbs / 125 Kg = 9.0 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 48 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.77
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.409 / 0.416
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.23 ft / 0.68 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Forward deck: 44.00 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Aft deck: 21.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 12.40 ft / 3.78 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.5 %
Waterplane Area: 5,097 Square feet or 474 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 45 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 144 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.10
- Overall: 0.57
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Misc Distribution
--On Deck (50t)
----36t 12x530mm Torpedos [Two triple tube mounts per side]
----2t Improved spray protections for Torpedo tubes
----10t Short-Range Wireless
----2t Minesweeping Paravanes
1910 will also see a new cruiser design. Basically a Lauri Class cruiser with the speed of the Marathona Class Destroyer Leaders. The intent is to begin replacing the older SRE cruisers with this design.
Quote1910 Design B, Imperial Roman Republic Cruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
5,000 t light; 5,175 t standard; 5,620 t normal; 5,976 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(485.85 ft / 475.72 ft) x 47.57 ft x (16.40 / 17.21 ft)
(148.09 m / 145.00 m) x 14.50 m x (5.00 / 5.24 m)
Armament:
7 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 655 lbs / 297 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 389.63 ft / 118.76 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 126 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46,000 shp / 34,316 Kw = 29.31 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 801 tons
Complement:
323 - 421
Cost:
£0.517 million / $2.070 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 218 tons, 3.9 %
- Guns: 218 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 1,102 tons, 19.6 %
- Belts: 398 tons, 7.1 %
- Armament: 27 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 658 tons, 11.7 %
- Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,901 tons, 33.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,604 tons, 28.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 620 tons, 11.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 175 tons, 3.1 %
- Hull below water: 5 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 105 tons
- Above deck: 15 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,160 lbs / 1,887 Kg = 49.7 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.537
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.07 ft / 0.63 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 9.05 %, 22.15 ft / 6.75 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 36.90 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Quarter deck: 9.05 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 15.63 ft / 4.76 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.8 %
Waterplane Area: 15,502 Square feet or 1,440 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 340 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Misc Distribution
--Below Water (5t)
----5t Additional Pumps
--Above Water (40t)
----10t Improved Officer Accommodations
----10t Improved Crew Accommodations
----10t Short-Range Wireless
----5t Improved Ventilation
----5t Construction Reserve
--On Deck (105t)
----36t 12x530mm Torpedos [Two Tripple tube mounts per side]
----25t 1906 Fire Control
----25t Long-Range Wireless
----6t Improved Torpedo Handling Equipment
----5t Additional Officer accommodations
----3t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (15t)
----10t Improved Aquisition Structures
----5t Additional Searchlights
Back to the Battlecruiser concept and I thing I did a thing that is fun.
Quote1910 BC, Imperial Roman Navy Battlecruiser laid down 1910
Displacement:
27,250 t light; 28,646 t standard; 29,765 t normal; 30,660 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(643.36 ft / 629.92 ft) x 91.86 ft x (26.25 / 26.93 ft)
(196.09 m / 192.00 m) x 28.00 m x (8.00 / 8.21 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft
16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 12,289 lbs / 5,574 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 379.72 ft / 115.74 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 250.20 ft / 76.26 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 379.72 ft / 115.74 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 379.72 ft / 115.74 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 83.66 ft / 25.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 100,000 shp / 74,600 Kw = 27.45 kts
Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,014 tons
Complement:
1,132 - 1,472
Cost:
£2.631 million / $10.526 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,564 tons, 8.6 %
- Guns: 2,564 tons, 8.6 %
Armour: 8,719 tons, 29.3 %
- Belts: 3,569 tons, 12.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 581 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 2,213 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 2,153 tons, 7.2 %
- Conning Tower: 204 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,132 tons, 13.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,995 tons, 33.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,515 tons, 8.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,840 tons, 6.2 %
- Hull below water: 1,250 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,367 lbs / 16,042 Kg = 29.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.686 / 0.689
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.10 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.99 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 24.72 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.28 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.92 ft / 6.68 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.7 %
Waterplane Area: 45,795 Square feet or 4,254 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 871 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
So, to catch myself back up, I figured I would outline the Imperial Navy's current construction plans so you guys can tell me how bad they are. I will pick this up as of Jan 1 1911. The Imperial Roman Navy is adjusting to the reality that technology is moving very rapidly, creating a more limited effective life for its ships, and that it's new job of guarding the route to the riches of the New World is going to require some adjustments.
Battleships:
The battleship core of the IRN is older and slow. Only two ships in service right now can make more than 18knts, the Invictas at 21knts. The coming Praeventores class matches this and have 50% more firepower. Ultimently the IRN would like a core of eight battleships with similar characteristics to the Praeventores class. Current plans call for laying down a pair of new Praeventores-types every 2-3 years. The 1912 version looks quite good, and I know roughly how I want to develop the type.
For the older ships, there will be some scrappings and refits. The old simple reciprocating engine ships (Gloriousm and Hadrian IX classes) will be decommissioned and likely scrapped. The gain from scraping these two classes will likely be used to refit the Imperito class for dedicated overseas service. Eventually, they would be replaced in that role, but that is more a 1920's idea.
Armored Cruisers & Battlecruisers:
Not many ships to cover here. The two existing ships are quite outclassed. The Pegasum is due for the breakers, but Im tempted to play with refits to make her the Caribbean flagship. Argonauta is still useful, but with some of the big, fast Norse ships around she is more of a liability than an asset these days. At some point I see her ending up in the Caribbean because she is still a tough nut for a non-battlecruiser to crack. The Respublica is probly a little slow, but should be a good heavy fast unit for a while. Future developments here don't really have a plan, the Respublica is viewed as a one-off, unless Battlecruisers start really taking off.
Cruisers:
Much like the battleships, the IRN has a lot of old and slow cruisers. The Ariminum class needs to be phased out and scrapped. The 1910 class (I should really name this) is going to be the replacement. The plan is for the 1910 class to serve as the rough template for cruisers going forward. Refreshed every 2-3 years, the plan is mostly to improve speed and/or range. At some point a change in armament will be warranted, whether or not its a rearrangement of roughly the existing gun loadout or a more substantial change depends on international developments. The Aosta class is being eyed as a candidate for refit for Caribbean service because they have large reserves.
Destroyers and Torpedo Craft
The current F-class destroyers are going to be replacing a lot of the smaller reciprocating engine torpedo craft in service. The plan is to have 40 F-Class Destroyers finished by the beginning of 1914. It's enough to replace the A and B class destroyers in active service. After that, a new standard design will be looked at to expand the number of Destroyers in service. Consideration is being given to stationing the B-Class overseas, but the A-Class is headed to the breakers within the next couple of years. The small Torpedo Boats are also headed to the breakers, their role will be taken over by Motor-Torpedo boats.
With the completion of the 1910 Captial tech and 1912 Fire Control, the successor to the Praeventores class begins to take shape. There are three designs based on similar hull forms.
First is the most linear progression from the Praeventores. Featuring the same main gun battery, now with a Superfiring pair forward, an impressive secondary battery, and an improved armor layout the A design is meant to add to the existing 21knt battleline.
Quote1912 Battleship Design A, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
27,500 t light; 29,260 t standard; 30,226 t normal; 30,999 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
(193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m x (8.00 / 8.18 m)
Armament:
12 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,776 lbs / 7,609 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 218.14 ft / 66.49 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.15" / 80 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.3" / 440 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 38,000 shp / 28,348 Kw = 21.34 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,739 tons
Complement:
1,146 - 1,490
Cost:
£2.658 million / $10.632 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,536 tons, 11.7 %
- Guns: 3,536 tons, 11.7 %
Armour: 11,556 tons, 38.2 %
- Belts: 4,510 tons, 14.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,239 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 2,820 tons, 9.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,781 tons, 9.2 %
- Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,515 tons, 5.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,553 tons, 31.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,726 tons, 9.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,340 tons, 4.4 %
- Hull below water: 650 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,440 lbs / 21,065 Kg = 38.7 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 8.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.680 / 0.682
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.51 ft / 5.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.3 %
Waterplane Area: 46,674 Square feet or 4,336 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 906 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
However, there are elements within the Navy that view the recent colonial acquisitions as an opportunity to change the course. The B design cuts down on the main battery to create one of, if not the fastest, battleship in the world. The armor remains unchanged.
Quote1912 Battleship Design B, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
27,770 t light; 29,234 t standard; 30,199 t normal; 30,972 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
(193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m x (8.00 / 8.18 m)
Armament:
8 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,926 lbs / 5,409 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 218.14 ft / 66.49 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.54" / 90 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.3" / 440 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 68,000 shp / 50,728 Kw = 24.81 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,738 tons
Complement:
1,145 - 1,489
Cost:
£2.384 million / $9.535 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,514 tons, 8.3 %
- Guns: 2,514 tons, 8.3 %
Armour: 11,835 tons, 39.2 %
- Belts: 5,136 tons, 17.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,394 tons, 4.6 %
- Armament: 2,319 tons, 7.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,779 tons, 9.2 %
- Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,711 tons, 9.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,770 tons, 29.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,429 tons, 8.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,940 tons, 6.4 %
- Hull below water: 1,250 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,862 lbs / 21,256 Kg = 39.1 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 8.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.679 / 0.681
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.51 ft / 5.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.4 %
Waterplane Area: 46,649 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 805 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.15
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Design C is an attempt to merge the A and B, but comes at the expense of armor.
Quote1912 Battleship Design C, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
27,572 t light; 29,234 t standard; 30,199 t normal; 30,972 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
(193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m x (8.00 / 8.18 m)
Armament:
12 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
14 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,013 lbs / 7,263 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 3.54" / 90 mm 218.14 ft / 66.49 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.3" / 440 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.54" / 90 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 24.04 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,738 tons
Complement:
1,145 - 1,489
Cost:
£2.740 million / $10.960 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,378 tons, 11.2 %
- Guns: 3,378 tons, 11.2 %
Armour: 10,430 tons, 34.5 %
- Belts: 4,235 tons, 14.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 775 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 2,713 tons, 9.0 %
- Armour Deck: 2,501 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,392 tons, 7.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,682 tons, 32.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,627 tons, 8.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,690 tons, 5.6 %
- Hull below water: 1,000 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,808 lbs / 18,964 Kg = 34.9 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.679 / 0.681
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.51 ft / 5.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.4 %
Waterplane Area: 46,649 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 909 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.20
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
I choose A design
27500t - 12x340 - B340 - 21kts with 1912 engines
=> Made SS reserve to have 24-25kts, later, in 1926-27, during the 10y major refit.
;)
Edit : rewrote, added blather.
To me, "A" and "C" are the contenders.
After looking at things, I would take "A", no "C"... ok, I've gone back and forth, but the additional 10mm deck armor and 30mm TDS armor on "A" is functionally wasted.
The lack of 20mm Belt armor on "C" is not great, but 89% hull space means the protective deck fits all the important stuff under it, so it's actually a 320mm backed by the armor deck slope - not bad. The combination should bounce shells very nicely. The Parthians overdo it and try to have the main belt stop the shells and the deck stop all splinters.
At this point, the actual speeds of the 1909-10 laydown vessels is unlikely to be known, but Rome should know that none of the 1905-6 capital ships has demonstrated extra speed.
So stretching for 24 knots would give a theoretical edge over the Norse or the Byzantines.
So..same guns, functionally same deck/TDS effectiveness, close to the same belt effectiveness. Speed might not be a bad investment going forward. So "C'"..no A...err "C".
Comments :
With the torpedoes of "now" an 80mm bulkhead is almost certainly excessive to the need.
I will note a technicality- the beam inside bulkheads is set to 24m, which doesn't seem to matter. But this means that your torpedo protection is only 2.5m wide on each side, which in practivce would matter alot...but not in the SS3.
The Belt armor - thinning from 340mm to 320mm , but backed by a protective deck of some thickness, not bad.
Deck armor : I believe you're running 70-75mm main and a 20-25mm upper?
I will note the lack of an upper belt. Which your research just means you don't have to have.
That makes having multiple armored decks a little odd.
Yet, 100 or 90mm of armor in a single deck would be severe overkill at a 14km range.
Also, since visibility in the North Sea is frequently about 12,000m...or less and your fire control is 14,000m, and both are inside the range of QF guns, dispensing with the side armor might be premature.
I am curious what you envision by combining such a high main belt with the protective deck.
I'm guessing you're emulating the American SDNs.
I'm guessing here what you're envisioning is the protective deck being a splinterdeck of 25mm, again meeting the sides about -2m, the belt rising from there 5.5m, to 3.5m above WL. Then capped by the remaining 65-75mm of deck armor ??
In which case the thinner 320mm of "C" may be a vulnerability, as the 25mm splinter deck will stop rivets/ejecta/chunks of shell, but won't stop splinters from a capital ship shell that bursts past the belt. So.."A".
Contrast that to the classic idea of a protective deck is it sits a little above the waterline, and it's edges descend below the waterline. There may be a higher armor deck that's thinner to stop cruiser-level weapons. The main belt needs to rise slightly above it to prevent plunging shells from going over the belt and hitting the slope of the deck. So if the desk slope ends at -2m (deep for the period), and crowns at 0.5m or 1m above waterline, the belt might be 3-4m high. A shell penetrating that 320mm belt would then have to push past the 65-75mm armored slope of the main protective deck- very very difficult.
As a general observation, a straightline route, Brest->St. Augustine is ~3600nm, Cuba is about 3,900. If you ever have to send the fleet to the new world, they will be limited to a fairly direct slow route and will need fuel at the other end before engaging in combat.
Odd but true : I thought we weren't allowing bulbous bows, but when I looked at the Ship Design thread, it's only transoms. Guess I better convert over from ram bows....but they are so stylish. I've been going with the "cleaver" bow of late. 15deg forward, 2m ram. :)
Thanks for the feedback. Let me hit a couple of things quickly first before some blathering of my own.
--Range: Since these have electric drives, the range issue is less pronounced than first appears. Something to keep in mind for sure, but at this point, Roman thinking has not fully grasped that.
--Bow: I meant to have those as a ram, not bulbous. Blame a random scroll wheel. :) Cleaver look ala Queen Elizabeth is indeed good looking.
--Armor: Protected decks were also not my intent. Should be Armored as in the previous classes.
In-Character blather: Until recently, the Roman navy has served one prime purpose, defense of the Albian Channel. Other items such as trade protection have been distant seconds. Rome is (or at least views itself as) the strongest land power in Europe, if not the world. Rome's naval forces exist to ensure that said land power can never be cut off from its English territories. After the transition from sail to steam, and wood to metal, the way to accomplish that has been though ships capable of taking massive punishment. If the fleet can stay afloat, it can always fight (in theory). Now for the first time in hundreds of years, the Channel is no longer the only place that Roman forces can be cut off. The whole of the Atlantic represents an arena which Rome must now contest. The how of that is what is up for debate here.
The first decision is one of staying the course in capital ship development or altering the fundamental role of the capital ship in the Roman navy. While the A design has its radical elements, such as the consolidation of secondary battery protection instead of a traditional upper belt, it holds true to the traditional tenants of the Roman battleship; extensive thick armor and punishing firepower. This design, more evolution than revolution, slots right in with the current and under construction classes. But perhaps radical change is needed, the plodding floating fortress might not be the weapon needed to protect the possessions of the new world.
As shown by Norse development with large armored cruisers, speed has used. Sometimes, the warship you are able to get somewhere fast enough is the best warship you have. With that in mind, the second option becomes clear, 21knts is no longer fast enough for a capital ship. But how do you get there, sacrifice firepower or sacrifice protection? Designs B and C show approximately what would be necessary to do each. Design B continues with excellent protection while being much faster, while Design C keeps punishing firepower.
Ultimately the expected service life of these ships means the question is an important one, and the answer will affect the Roman navy's doctrine and capabilities for years to come.
OOC blather: I've been sitting on the A design for a while. I've also got a general plan for where I want Roman capital ships to end up at a later point in time but I want the development to that point to make sense. In one way or another, each of the presented designs fits one step along that route. I'm starting to lean C as well, as its a little more interesting than rebuilding a traditional 21knt battleline (until some point in the future).
Another contender. Basically the A design eliminating Y turret to make more room for 68000hp of engine. I like this as a "logical" choice rather than dropping back to twin turrets. Also lets me readd a 100mm upper belt. Looks more like an uparmored, slightly slower Respublica.
Quote1912 Battleship Design D, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
27,696 t light; 29,234 t standard; 30,199 t normal; 30,972 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
(193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m x (8.00 / 8.18 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,138 lbs / 5,959 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 218.14 ft / 66.49 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
2.36" / 60 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 68,000 shp / 50,728 Kw = 24.81 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,738 tons
Complement:
1,145 - 1,489
Cost:
£2.494 million / $9.976 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,769 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 2,769 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 11,342 tons, 37.6 %
- Belts: 5,142 tons, 17.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 929 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 2,125 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 2,941 tons, 9.7 %
- Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,711 tons, 9.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,183 tons, 30.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,503 tons, 8.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,690 tons, 5.6 %
- Hull below water: 1,000 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,478 lbs / 19,268 Kg = 35.4 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.679 / 0.681
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.51 ft / 5.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.4 %
Waterplane Area: 46,649 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 848 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Will do things like clean up displacement later.
Quote from: snip on August 24, 2019, 11:58:59 PM
Thanks for the feedback. Let me hit a couple of things quickly first before some blathering of my own.
--Range: Since these have electric drives, the range issue is less pronounced than first appears. Something to keep in mind for sure, but at this point, Roman thinking has not fully grasped that.
--Bow: I meant to have those as a ram, not bulbous. Blame a random scroll wheel. :) Cleaver look ala Queen Elizabeth is indeed good looking.
I remembered the electric later, but figured you were aware of that.. :)
That cleaver bow is exactly what I'm trying for with my 15% forward, 2 foot ram bows. At least in the little image in SS it looks reasonable.
The question of speed is a thorny one.
Luckily, for Parthia's view of "the next war" she doesn't need battleship speed. Which is awfully convenient for me.
We haven't had any fleet battles like the Russo-Japanese war or Spanish-American war, or even Sino-Japanese war.
Using speed to stay beyond the opposing range is one argument. But a bit moot in the North Sea and when the limiting factor is hitting more than 2% of the time (fire control)
Are fleets are relatively equal in mass, so building a faster ship means either larger & fewer or sacrificing armor/weapons.
Quote
As shown by Norse development with large armored cruisers, speed has used.
So food for thought :.. the Norse armored cruisers afloat, the newest commissioned one is ~17,000 tons and 27knots. Pretty much on par with Byzantine and Parthia.
So I presume you're concerned about the true battlecruiser
Wicklow[/u] ....but according to the 1/11 Norse construction, Wicklow has 11 months and 15,000 tons to go before she starts sea trials.
So you're assuming in that when you're doing design work in 1911, that you know the great speed of those ships? While they are 215m, the far slower battleship version is 206m, and the last battleships were 175m.
Next .. Thor and Sif (just completing) will have more guns than B and D, of a larger caliber. Twin turrets also have a per-gun higher ROF than triples, so 5xT2 should put out more shells than 4xT3, and decidedly more than 3xT3. They also have a heavier belt, and similar speed. That's before getting to the still-building Calgacas
So...IF you had knowledge of Wicklow's design speed, then A-D are all to slow to catch it. Personally, I've included a news bit about Jefgte's new armored cruisers appearing to be potentially much larger than the old ones, but Parthia will be 'surprised by his advance once those are in commission.
Meanwhile, B and D have less firepower than the existing Norse dreadnaughts they could catch.
So... speed might theoretically be useful. The RN was looking at a fast wing that could support the BCs and also perhaps cross the T during a conventional battle...but the RN also had DNs to spare.
It could be that the 24-25knot range is intended to let you disengage from the 21knot Norse ships, while you feel confident in beating the new Norse BCs...
So..what would Rome know about the Norse plans in 1911?
How would 24 or 25 knots fit in Rome's plans long term in regards to that?
QuoteSo..what would Rome know about the Norse plans in 1911?
I think it's reasonable for Rome to know that there are three distinct classes of a capital ship under construction and that there is enough difference between them to hint at a speed increase on at least one class, but not the absolute numbers. Given the size of Calgacas, its possible that Rome thinks there are two Calgasas and one Wiklow instead of the other way around. Of course, Rome thinks they have this with the Respublica (https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7179.msg91292.html#msg91292) to serve as the big guns for the scouting force. If the Norse are only building one of these big armored cruisers, Respublica can match. It might be an expected surprise when they find out that Mayo is Wicklow's sister and not Calgacas'. It's bound to be an unexpected shock when Wicklow hits 29knts, 2knts faster than the Respublica.
tldr: Rome knows there is a Norse fast capital ship or two under construction, does not know specifics, but thinks there is already an equal under construction for the navy. QuoteHow would 24 or 25 knots fit in Rome's plans long term in regards to that?
Rome's thoughts with upping speed fall into two categories. First, Rome's battleline is probably always going to be numerically inferior to the Norse. Unless budget priorities change, the balance cannot be altered. Where it was not possible before to really push the speed of the battleline higher, with turbines getting more efficient by the year speeds can continue to increase. If the Roman line can be fast enough to influence a hypothetical engagement with the Norse fleet, it could be an advantage. Second, the recent speed increase of battleships in general is still fresh in the mind of Roman planners. When 21knt dreadnaughts first came into being, all the 18knt ships were obsoleted overnight. At some point in the future, that could happen again. With the expected service life of future Roman capital ships going up as costs increase, speed is a hard characteristic to improve. If the jump can be made now, it might help extend the useful life of these ships far longer than a 21knt version. This allows for a larger core battleline in the future. The 21knt ships could just be a stepping stone to higher overall fleet speeds rather than the new norm in place of 18knt.
tldr: Rome thinks another speed jump could come and that getting out ahead of it will help keep ships built now viable longer. This is good for small budgets that dont allow for huge numbers of battleships when priority number 1 builds a lot of them.
I realised that the almost-25knts of Design D was probly a little to much. I dropped the engines to 60000hp and bumped the range (+500nm) and cruise speed (+2knts) up.
Quote1912 Battleship Design D2, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
27,192 t light; 28,729 t standard; 30,199 t normal; 31,376 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 27.13 ft)
(193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m x (8.00 / 8.27 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,138 lbs / 5,959 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 218.14 ft / 66.49 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
2.36" / 60 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 24.04 kts
Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,647 tons
Complement:
1,145 - 1,489
Cost:
£2.432 million / $9.726 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,769 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 2,769 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 11,342 tons, 37.6 %
- Belts: 5,142 tons, 17.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 929 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 2,125 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 2,941 tons, 9.7 %
- Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,392 tons, 7.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,198 tons, 30.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,008 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,490 tons, 4.9 %
- Hull below water: 800 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,112 lbs / 20,916 Kg = 38.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 7.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.679 / 0.682
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.51 ft / 5.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.4 %
Waterplane Area: 46,649 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 849 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Trying to decide that "out of character" knowledge is always tough.
Parthia is going to wind up a bit puzzled when it's evident that there is all these very large fast ships- but there's reason for that.
To me, I don't think the 3x T3 is the best choice. *
At 1.6-1.8 rounds per gun vs. 1.8-2.0 rounds per gun, 3T3 should be 14.4-16.2 rounds/min, vs. 4T2 at 14.4-16. That's equivalent, and you are concentrating firepower in 3 targets instead of 4.
So I liked the 4T3 designs better. At least you're getting greater throw weight.
...of course my Tiamat class is aiming to win the throw weight contest :)
The BC is still on the high side.
With the current speed, you could add depth and shorten the vessel for the same seakeeping and more comp hull.
I think I'd ask, how much does a 4xT3 "Cost" tonnage wise. Drop the draft 0.5-0.75m and see if it "fits".
But overall a fairly redoubtable vessel as is.
* edit : My understanding was they moved to triples to fit more guns in a given length of hull, allowing them to shorten the citadel and so give it better armor. I suppose as hulls got beamier, a high % of buoyancy was in that midsection, so you could do the AoN raft body on a short hull length. Something SS does not calculate- it runs belt length as a function of overall length, not what's needed for buoyancy.
Unless there is something massively wrong, I think this is what I'm going to do.
Quote1912 Battleship Design F, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
27,500 t light; 29,260 t standard; 30,226 t normal; 30,999 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
(193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m x (8.00 / 8.18 m)
Armament:
12 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,776 lbs / 7,609 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 3.15" / 80 mm 218.14 ft / 66.49 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
2.36" / 60 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.3" / 440 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 64,000 shp / 47,744 Kw = 24.43 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,739 tons
Complement:
1,146 - 1,490
Cost:
£2.803 million / $11.213 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,536 tons, 11.7 %
- Guns: 3,536 tons, 11.7 %
Armour: 10,338 tons, 34.2 %
- Belts: 4,215 tons, 13.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 929 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 2,820 tons, 9.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,085 tons, 6.9 %
- Conning Tower: 288 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,552 tons, 8.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,584 tons, 31.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,726 tons, 9.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,490 tons, 4.9 %
- Hull below water: 800 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,137 lbs / 18,206 Kg = 33.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 15.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.680 / 0.682
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.51 ft / 5.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.3 %
Waterplane Area: 46,674 Square feet or 4,336 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 909 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.20
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Misc Distribution
--Below Water (800t)
----640t Electric Drive
----50t Additional Pumps
----20t Enhanced Damage Control Equipment
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
----70t Construction Reserve
--Above Water(200t)
----50t Flag Facilities
----60t Improved Officer Accommodations
----60t Improved Crew Accommodations
----20t Short-Range Wireless (x2)
----10t Construction Reserve
--On Deck (450t)
----355t 1912 Fire Control
----40t Flag Facilities
----20t Admiralty Accommodations
----25t Long-Range Wireless
----10t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (40t)
----20t Improved Aquisition Structures
----10t Additional Searchlights
----10t Improved Signaling Equipment
Quote from: snip on March 11, 2020, 11:48:42 PM
Armament:
12 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
2.36" / 60 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
I am not sure I understand what the guns are supposed to be doing.
I think I got :
Main battery A, raised B, Q amidships, Y?
that would be the 3 , 1 raised, then the 1 aft deck forward.
It's the secondary I'm trying to picture :
You have 20 5", all under 100mm armor in all directions,
all on the weather deck, except 8 of the 12 guns aft, which are in hull casements?
I see you hurried the 1910 Arch, so yes, no upper belt.
Basically a
Pennsylvania which were good ships :)
Shallow TDS, but ok for period. Heavy bulkhead also.
You got the main battery right.
Secondaries: Its been a while since I first noted that layout down, so I don't really recall my intent with the layout. If it comes back to me, I will post.
A proposed "mid-cycle refresh" of the F-Class Destroyers. Change of armament from 4x100/L45 to 3x140mm/L55 as is standard on cruisers. Increase of SHP to 32k, for a 32.4knt top speed.
QuoteF-Class (140mm), Imperial Roman Republic Destroyer laid down 1912
Displacement:
1,000 t light; 1,048 t standard; 1,114 t normal; 1,167 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(287.07 ft / 278.87 ft) x 29.53 ft x (11.48 / 11.84 ft)
(87.50 m / 85.00 m) x 9.00 m x (3.50 / 3.61 m)
Armament:
3 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.94lbs / 1.34kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 264 lbs / 120 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,000 shp / 23,872 Kw = 32.42 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 118 tons
Complement:
96 - 125
Cost:
£0.139 million / $0.556 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 59 tons, 5.3 %
- Guns: 59 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 19 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 19 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 627 tons, 56.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 241 tons, 21.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 114 tons, 10.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 4.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 5 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
211 lbs / 96 Kg = 2.5 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.73
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.412 / 0.419
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.23 ft / 0.68 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Forward deck: 44.00 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Aft deck: 21.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 12.40 ft / 3.78 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.4 %
Waterplane Area: 5,107 Square feet or 474 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 40 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 135 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.43
- Longitudinal: 1.94
- Overall: 0.50
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Sometime I've been batting around for a little bit that I think I finally got into a place I kinda like. Currently, the Roman standard cruising speed is 10knts. At this speed, it take a ship 19 days and 8 hours to get to the furthest Roman colony of New Francia (OTL Texas). At higher speeds, this time comes down a lot. In order to make the trip in about a week, a speed of 24knts is required. Project Mercury has been the working name for a large cruiser designed to cruise at 24knts and have the range to make the 4638 nautical mile journey and still have some legs to fight with. This cruise speed has been the primary consideration of these designs and has dictated much of the compromises made.
QuoteProject Mercury III, Imperial Roman Armored Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
14,379 t light; 15,102 t standard; 20,000 t normal; 23,919 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(656.18 ft / 639.76 ft) x 74.64 ft x (26.25 / 30.33 ft)
(200.00 m / 195.00 m) x 22.75 m x (8.00 / 9.24 m)
Armament:
8 - 8.27" / 210 mm 45.0 cal guns - 242.51lbs / 110.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount aft
8 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,628 lbs / 1,192 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 415.85 ft / 126.75 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 223.88 ft / 68.24 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.09" / 180 mm 4.33" / 110 mm 7.09" / 180 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 104,000 shp / 77,584 Kw = 30.19 kts
Range 5,500nm at 24.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,817 tons
Complement:
840 - 1,093
Cost:
£1.496 million / $5.984 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 700 tons, 3.5 %
- Guns: 700 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 3,110 tons, 15.5 %
- Belts: 938 tons, 4.7 %
- Armament: 773 tons, 3.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,342 tons, 6.7 %
- Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 4,075 tons, 20.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,969 tons, 29.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,621 tons, 28.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 525 tons, 2.6 %
- Hull below water: 150 tons
- Hull above water: 150 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,900 lbs / 12,201 Kg = 95.2 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.559 / 0.578
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.97 ft / 1.82 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.49 ft / 6.55 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.9 %
Waterplane Area: 33,593 Square feet or 3,121 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 594 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Thoughts?
Is that a cruiser, or tanker? Almost 9000 tons of oil on board.
QuoteRange 5,500nm at 24.00 kts
Very high (unusual) cruiser speed !
Quote... In order to make the trip in about a week, a speed of 24knts is required...
What is the point of making the trip in 1 week?
You could have colonial cruisers in Texas harbors...
QuoteArmour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 415.85 ft / 126.75 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 223.88 ft / 68.24 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.09" / 180 mm 4.33" / 110 mm 7.09" / 180 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Main belt & Conning tower are short with 90mm
120mm w"ll be better & well balanced with turrets & deck armor thickness
The requirement to make the trip faster is two-fold
1) The ship can serve as a rapid reaction to changing events on ether side of the Atlantic. By virtue of its speed, it can relocate faster than any known warship in the world. That kind of flexibility is useful when the ships traditionally assigned to the colonies are going to be older and slower. Having the ability for a "modern" cruiser to be there much faster is viewed as a good thing. With this rapid transit in mind, the ship can be attached to the main fleet based in Europe, where it can also function as a high-endurance scout or heavy escort.
2) The Project Mercury designs have all be very large, and as such have included much larger guns than a traditional cruiser in the Roman Navy. This is viewed to provide a benefit much like the gap between OTL armored cruisers and battlecruisers. By nature of the designs fast top speed, she can chase down the older, slower cruisers that would traditionally be present in the colonies while being able to run away from any predreadnaughts that might be around. Couple this with the rapid transit time, and there is a good 10-14 day window where the ship is likely able to exert an outsized influence on a colonial conflict before any committed major fleet assets show up.
This also has the side effect of giving the Roman Navy a cruiser with very long range that would likely be able to support any future far-flung colonies, abit at a slower speed.
Regarding Armor: When viewed against older guns, the armor is accepted as adequate. The ship is not meant to go toe-to-toe with a battleship, or another modern Armored Cruiser. With future technological improvements and developments (eg new 210mm or other inbetween 140mm and 340mm guns for this sort of ship), later designs centered on the Mercury requirement would perhaps be more well-rounded warships.
Thats an insanely high cruising speed, not even period ocean liners went that fast. Its going to strain the engines, the ship, and the crew. How about somewhere in the 16-20kt range? Still very fast but not such a high leap. Right now that ship is basically an armed oil tanker and very Fisherite.
Lusitania and Mauretania could do it in 1909... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania)
A gain of a week is questionable ...
An equivalent 14,000 t cruiser, better balanced, with 234, 254 or 305 guns arriving a week after it would likely destroy it.
But that's your choice...
QuoteLusitania and Mauretania could do it in 1909...
We are in 1912 & april 14 is approaching...
:'(
Foxy complaining about something being Fisherite, now I've seen it all. :P
This is definitely not going to be a prefect ship, but I like that its a unique one. My plan right now is to only build one. Once its flaws become apparent, I'm sure later ships built to the Mercury specification will look quite different.
In the relm of more traditional cruisers, we have this. Building on the preceding Parisius class, the design trades some vertical protection for longer legs and about a knot increase in speed. Armament is also now concentrated in new twin mounts.
Quote1913 Long Range Cruiser Design A, Imperial Roman Republic Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
8,500 t light; 8,791 t standard; 9,904 t normal; 10,795 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(617.69 ft / 606.96 ft) x 65.62 ft x (19.69 / 20.92 ft)
(188.27 m / 185.00 m) x 20.00 m x (6.00 / 6.38 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 210 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 285 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 766 lbs / 347 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 394.52 ft / 120.25 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 212.40 ft / 64.74 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 64,000 shp / 47,744 Kw = 30.10 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,004 tons
Complement:
496 - 645
Cost:
£0.803 million / $3.213 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 204 tons, 2.1 %
- Guns: 204 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 1,463 tons, 14.8 %
- Belts: 406 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 14 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,008 tons, 10.2 %
- Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,508 tons, 25.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,419 tons, 34.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,404 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 905 tons, 9.1 %
- Hull below water: 640 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 15 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,961 lbs / 5,879 Kg = 154.8 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.442 / 0.453
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.87 ft / 1.18 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.60 ft / 5.06 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.0 %
Waterplane Area: 25,241 Square feet or 2,345 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 462 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.02
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
And one more for the pile. The Roman navy has a good number of cruisers, but this number is inflated by many older ships which are no longer fast enough to fill some cruiser roles. As such, one of the proposed construction items for 1913 is a Sostituzione Incrociatore. The goal of this design is to produce a "good enough" cruiser to ensure current numbers can be maintained with more modern ships. The design must be capable of being built in a year. Intent would be to mass produce the design to replace old reciprocating engine cruisers. The design would be updated on a bi-yearly basis to take into account technological improvements. The first draft is below.
QuoteReplacement Cruiser, Imperial Roman Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,116 t standard; 3,319 t normal; 3,481 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(400.26 ft / 393.70 ft) x 39.37 ft x (13.12 / 13.64 ft)
(122.00 m / 120.00 m) x 12.00 m x (4.00 / 4.16 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
Weight of broadside 516 lbs / 234 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 285.43 ft / 87.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 108.23 ft / 32.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 22,000 shp / 16,412 Kw = 25.84 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 365 tons
Complement:
218 - 284
Cost:
£0.315 million / $1.259 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 160 tons, 4.8 %
- Guns: 160 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 672 tons, 20.3 %
- Belts: 300 tons, 9.0 %
- Armament: 10 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 352 tons, 10.6 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 862 tons, 26.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 976 tons, 29.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 319 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 9.9 %
- Hull below water: 220 tons
- Hull above water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 75 tons
- Above deck: 10 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,176 lbs / 1,441 Kg = 37.9 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.571 / 0.576
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.89 ft / 0.27 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.50 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Aft deck: 32.50 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Average freeboard: 14.06 ft / 4.29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.4 %
Waterplane Area: 11,033 Square feet or 1,025 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 286 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 0.90
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
I mean if everyone starts being Fisherite, then I'll have to start building normal ships... the horror!
Quote from: snip on April 13, 2020, 10:15:17 PM
Foxy complaining about something being Fisherite, now I've seen it all. :P
This is definitely not going to be a prefect ship, but I like that its a unique one. My plan right now is to only build one. Once its flaws become apparent, I'm sure later ships built to the Mercury specification will look quite different.
In the realm of ' I don't know why they did / didn't do it' is fuel capacity. I one did some quick SSs of the US long range ships and found ~19% fuel & stores was about the limit actually done.
I would imagine somewhere along the line the huge void spaces and problems of stability changes with fuel use might compromise a warship's performance.
However, especially for one-off ships, exploring possible mistakes can be fun. Look at the original IJN with their frantic hull strengthening of several classes, and loss of DDs to capsizing.... or the problems the later Fisher BCs had with firing and so damaging their hull because they were built too light. Or the American US Vulcan dynamite gun ship. Cool concept :)
It is felt that the 140mm gun, due to limitations of shell weight, will loose its ability to be an effective anti-cruiser weapon within a short time frame. As such, the Imperial Roman Navy is planning on a crash program to get a modern cruiser gun by modifying the older 210mmL45 into a 180mmL52.5. Such a gun would be mated with the 1913 Long Range Cruiser with the same armament layout as the Parisius class. [Note, I complete the 1910 Gun tech in 1912H2, and with provision D of the Naval gun research rules, I can rush the development of the gun in 1 year]
Quote1914 Long Range Cruiser Design A, Imperial Roman Republic Cruiser laid down 1914
Displacement:
9,000 t light; 9,369 t standard; 10,475 t normal; 11,360 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(620.08 ft / 606.96 ft) x 65.62 ft x (19.69 / 20.89 ft)
(189.00 m / 185.00 m) x 20.00 m x (6.00 / 6.37 m)
Armament:
7 - 7.09" / 180 mm 52.5 cal guns - 189.60lbs / 86.00kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 285 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,405 lbs / 637 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 409.71 ft / 124.88 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 197.24 ft / 60.12 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 2.36" / 60 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 67,998 shp / 50,727 Kw = 30.20 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,991 tons
Complement:
517 - 673
Cost:
£1.059 million / $4.235 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 423 tons, 4.0 %
- Guns: 423 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 1,501 tons, 14.3 %
- Belts: 382 tons, 3.6 %
- Armament: 40 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,042 tons, 9.9 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,619 tons, 25.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,487 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,475 tons, 14.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 970 tons, 9.3 %
- Hull below water: 680 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 230 tons
- Above deck: 10 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,453 lbs / 5,649 Kg = 70.0 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 12.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.16
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.468 / 0.478
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.33 ft / 1.32 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.86 ft / 5.75 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 37.50 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 12.50 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.60 ft / 5.06 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.8 %
Waterplane Area: 25,783 Square feet or 2,395 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 481 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.01
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Update to the 1913 Replacement Cruiser design. Some revision to armor, updated weapon loadout.
QuoteReplacement Cruiser Template B, Imperial Roman Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
2,990 t light; 3,116 t standard; 3,319 t normal; 3,481 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(400.26 ft / 393.70 ft) x 39.37 ft x (13.12 / 13.64 ft)
(122.00 m / 120.00 m) x 12.00 m x (4.00 / 4.16 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.76lbs / 1.25kg shells, 550 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 3,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 574 lbs / 261 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 285.43 ft / 87.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 108.23 ft / 32.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 22,000 shp / 16,412 Kw = 25.84 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 365 tons
Complement:
218 - 284
Cost:
£0.320 million / $1.282 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 177 tons, 5.3 %
- Guns: 177 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 628 tons, 18.9 %
- Belts: 300 tons, 9.0 %
- Armament: 15 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 303 tons, 9.1 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 861 tons, 25.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 995 tons, 30.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 329 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 9.9 %
- Hull below water: 220 tons
- Hull above water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 75 tons
- Above deck: 10 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,099 lbs / 1,406 Kg = 37.0 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.571 / 0.576
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.89 ft / 0.27 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.50 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Aft deck: 32.50 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Average freeboard: 14.06 ft / 4.29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.4 %
Waterplane Area: 11,033 Square feet or 1,025 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 294 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 0.90
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Correct 1913 cruiser for 3000t
QuoteMiscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 9.9 %
- Hull below water: 220 tons
- Hull above water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 75 tons
- Above deck: 10 tons
Interesting reserve for other jobs...
Most of the Hull below water is for the Electric drives. I'll see if I can get to a more detailed breakdown today.
Eight of these ships are planned over 1913-14 to replace the Ariminum class cruisers. The intent is a good-enough battleline escort and general purpace cruiser.
QuoteReplacement Cruiser Template 1913, Imperial Roman Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
2,990 t light; 3,116 t standard; 3,319 t normal; 3,481 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(400.26 ft / 393.70 ft) x 39.37 ft x (13.12 / 13.64 ft)
(122.00 m / 120.00 m) x 12.00 m x (4.00 / 4.16 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.76lbs / 1.25kg shells, 550 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 3,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 574 lbs / 261 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 285.43 ft / 87.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 108.23 ft / 32.99 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 22,000 shp / 16,412 Kw = 25.84 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 365 tons
Complement:
218 - 284
Cost:
£0.320 million / $1.282 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 177 tons, 5.3 %
- Guns: 177 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 628 tons, 18.9 %
- Belts: 299 tons, 9.0 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 303 tons, 9.1 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 861 tons, 25.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 995 tons, 30.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 329 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 9.9 %
- Hull below water: 220 tons
- Hull above water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 75 tons
- Above deck: 10 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,099 lbs / 1,406 Kg = 37.0 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.571 / 0.576
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.89 ft / 0.27 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.50 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Aft deck: 32.50 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Average freeboard: 14.06 ft / 4.29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.4 %
Waterplane Area: 11,033 Square feet or 1,025 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 294 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 0.90
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Misc Distribution
--Below Water (220t)
----216t Electric Drives
----4t Additional Pumps
--Above Water (25t)
----15t Improved Crew Accommodations
----10t Improved Officer Accommodations
--On Deck (75t)
----18t 1912 Fire Control
----18t 6x530mm Torpedoes [One triple tube mount per side]
----25t Long Range Wireless
----10t Short Range Wireless
----4t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (10t)
----5t Improved Acquisition Structures
----5t Additional Searchlights
Something Im toying with for a follow on to the Respublica.
QuoteJean de Arc, Imperial Roman Large Armored Cruiser laid down 1914
Displacement:
27,842 t light; 29,328 t standard; 31,500 t normal; 33,237 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(702.12 ft / 685.70 ft) x 101.71 ft x (28.54 / 29.79 ft)
(214.00 m / 209.00 m) x 31.00 m x (8.70 / 9.08 m)
Armament:
8 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,914 lbs / 5,404 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 239.96 ft / 73.14 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 28.54 ft / 8.70 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 128,001 shp / 95,488 Kw = 29.59 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,909 tons
Complement:
1,181 - 1,536
Cost:
£3.461 million / $13.846 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,155 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 2,155 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 7,651 tons, 24.3 %
- Belts: 3,452 tons, 11.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 741 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 1,660 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,595 tons, 5.1 %
- Conning Tower: 203 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,931 tons, 15.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,895 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,658 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,210 tons, 7.0 %
- Hull below water: 1,350 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 600 tons
- Above deck: 60 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,301 lbs / 18,734 Kg = 34.4 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
Metacentric height 9.4 ft / 2.9 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.554 / 0.560
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.74 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.97 ft / 1.82 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forward deck: 10.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.39 ft / 6.83 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.0 %
Waterplane Area: 48,847 Square feet or 4,538 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 852 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.49
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Looks like the belt needs another metre or so of length.
That's a lot of miscellaneous weight...
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on June 07, 2020, 08:07:57 AM
Looks like the belt needs another metre or so of length.
That's a lot of miscellaneous weight...
Agree, the belt can and should be fixed.
Electric Drives?
QuoteJean de Arc, Imperial Roman Large Armored Crusier laid down 1914
Displacement:
27,842 t light; 29,328 t standard; 31,500 t normal; 33,237 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(702.12 ft / 685.70 ft) x 101.71 ft x (28.54 / 29.79 ft)
(214.00 m / 209.00 m) x 31.00 m x (8.70 / 9.08 m)
Armament:
8 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,914 lbs / 5,404 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 239.96 ft / 73.14 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 28.54 ft / 8.70 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 89.40 ft / 27.25 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 128,001 shp / 95,488 Kw = 29.59 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,909 tons
Complement:
1,181 - 1,536
Cost:
£3.461 million / $13.846 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,155 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 2,155 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 7,651 tons, 24.3 %
- Belts: 3,452 tons, 11.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 741 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 1,660 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,595 tons, 5.1 %
- Conning Tower: 203 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,931 tons, 15.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,895 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,658 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,210 tons, 7.0 %
- Hull below water: 1,350 tons
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 600 tons
- Above deck: 60 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,306 lbs / 18,736 Kg = 34.4 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
Metacentric height 9.4 ft / 2.9 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.554 / 0.560
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.74 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.97 ft / 1.82 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forward deck: 10.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.39 ft / 6.83 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.0 %
Waterplane Area: 48,847 Square feet or 4,538 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 852 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.49
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Yes, electric drives
You realise this is a Gascogned Dunkerque?
Not a bad job, this looks more balanced and 25 years earlier.
Quote from: maddox on June 23, 2020, 03:34:33 AM
You realise this is a Gascogned Dunkerque?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/XItRQJP0wai7m/giphy.gif)
Taking a look ahead to another 1914 design.
QuoteLRD-14A, Imperial Roman Destroyer laid down 1914
Displacement:
1,500 t light; 1,569 t standard; 1,762 t normal; 1,916 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(354.32 ft / 344.49 ft) x 31.17 ft x (13.94 / 14.75 ft)
(108.00 m / 105.00 m) x 9.50 m x (4.25 / 4.50 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount aft
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 351 lbs / 159 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 32.25 kts
Range 3,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 347 tons
Complement:
135 - 176
Cost:
£0.268 million / $1.074 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 78 tons, 4.4 %
- Guns: 78 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 12 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 978 tons, 55.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 402 tons, 22.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 262 tons, 14.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 1.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 30 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
377 lbs / 171 Kg = 4.5 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.412 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.05 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.07 ft / 0.63 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 60.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 13.60 ft / 4.15 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.3 %
Waterplane Area: 6,660 Square feet or 619 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 157 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 0.57
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
This feels like a case of NEDS to me. A gun as large as 14cm needs a fair amount of deck space to work. Also handing up that ammunition won't be much fun. A full round with its propellant is going to be in excess of 49 kg (or almost 110 lbs for those of us who are less enlightened). How many torpedo tubes does this have?
QuoteLRD-14A, Imperial Roman Destroyer laid down 1914
I'd make a comment about 14cm, but then I've been looking at the same thing at the same time.
Parthia just started work on 130mm, as they figure that's about the reasonable limit.
It's 20% heavier than their 120mm, which they hope will be sufficient for these new giant destroyers folks have.
Quote from: Guinness on June 23, 2020, 07:43:49 PM
This feels like a case of NEDS to me. A gun as large as 14cm needs a fair amount of deck space to work. Also handing up that ammunition won't be much fun. A full round with its propellant is going to be in excess of 49 kg (or almost 110 lbs for those of us who are less enlightened). How many torpedo tubes does this have?
QuoteLRD-14A, Imperial Roman Destroyer laid down 1914
The layout is basicly that of the Bourrasque Class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourrasque-class_destroyer), but with the B mount shifted to a Q position & 5.5m longer. Sure, my guns are 140s rather than 130s. The Romans have been using 140mm guns with the 39kg shell for almost 10 years, so the teething problems will be more to do with using said guns on a DD. Some of that work has already been done on the G-Class (https://www.navalism.org/index.php?board=622.0), which mounted 3 of these weapons. Planned fish 2x3 530mm centerline.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on June 23, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Parthia just started work on 130mm, as they figure that's about the reasonable limit.
It's 20% heavier than their 120mm, which they hope will be sufficient for these new giant destroyers folks have.
With the guns I have, its ether single 140s or twin 100s. The 100s feel a little light for a ship of this size.
And I just realized that I misread the 130mm the Bourrasque actually carried. So the nearest comparison would be the Guepards, which Im shorter than but mount one less gun.
For giggles, the 8x100mm version. Gets hoists in exchange for 2000shp (~.4 knts)
QuoteLRD-14B, Imperial Roman Destroyer laid down 1914
Displacement:
1,500 t light; 1,567 t standard; 1,760 t normal; 1,914 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(354.32 ft / 344.49 ft) x 31.17 ft x (13.94 / 14.75 ft)
(108.00 m / 105.00 m) x 9.50 m x (4.25 / 4.50 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 225 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount aft
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 254 lbs / 115 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.39" / 10 mm
2nd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 34,000 shp / 25,364 Kw = 31.82 kts
Range 3,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 347 tons
Complement:
135 - 176
Cost:
£0.267 million / $1.067 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 56 tons, 3.2 %
- Guns: 56 tons, 3.2 %
Armour: 10 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 948 tons, 53.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 451 tons, 25.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 260 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 2.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 35 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
382 lbs / 173 Kg = 12.5 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.411 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.05 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.07 ft / 0.63 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 60.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 13.60 ft / 4.15 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.2 %
Waterplane Area: 6,655 Square feet or 618 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 166 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.76
- Overall: 0.57
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
We have officially entered WWII ship territory in 1914...
There is a few historical near-contemperaries in size and purpace: The British Lightfoot class Flotilla Leaders (1915) and follow-ons (noted as partial inspiration for the historic contre-torpilleurs), and the German B 97 (1915), S113 (1918) classes. While armament is heavier than the mentioned designs (sans S 113 which had 4x150mm), here we have had actual engagements with light torpedo craft that would inform heavier armament.
I should have said, that was in relation to the B design, twin M&H are way too early. I do think the bigger guns are actually worse against light crafts, ROF and turning rates will be worse than smaller ones. I am seriously regretting not investing into 4" guns myself.
The Royal Navy had reservations about putting 6" guns on 3000 ton cruisers because they felt those ships were too lively. The manually operated mountings were too hard to keep on target. Ultimately fire control helped the matter somewhat, but they weren't truly happy with 6" guns on such small a ship until powered mountings came along. So one would expect such reservations to apply to 1500t destroyers too.
The other argument for smaller calibers on destroyers and lighter cruisers was always one of rate of fire. This becomes less of an issue as engagement ranges increase, but returns with dual-purpose guns.
Revised B design. Drop M&H, return to 36000 shp, add 5t misc weight
QuoteLRD-14B, Imperial Roman Destroyer laid down 1914
Displacement:
1,500 t light; 1,567 t standard; 1,760 t normal; 1,914 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(354.32 ft / 344.49 ft) x 31.17 ft x (13.94 / 14.75 ft)
(108.00 m / 105.00 m) x 9.50 m x (4.25 / 4.50 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 225 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount aft
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 254 lbs / 115 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
2nd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 32.26 kts
Range 3,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 347 tons
Complement:
135 - 176
Cost:
£0.260 million / $1.039 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 38 tons, 2.2 %
- Guns: 38 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 9 tons, 0.5 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 994 tons, 56.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 418 tons, 23.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 260 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 2.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
385 lbs / 175 Kg = 12.6 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.411 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.05 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.07 ft / 0.63 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 60.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 13.60 ft / 4.15 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 190.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.2 %
Waterplane Area: 6,655 Square feet or 618 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 153 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 0.57
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Slightly tweeked and updated Jeanne d'Arc
QuoteJeanne d'Arc, Imperial Roman Large Armored Cruiser laid down 1914
Displacement:
28,000 t light; 29,490 t standard; 31,669 t normal; 33,413 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(702.12 ft / 685.70 ft) x 101.71 ft x (28.54 / 29.79 ft)
(214.00 m / 209.00 m) x 31.00 m x (8.70 / 9.08 m)
Armament:
8 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1906 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 raised mounts
10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 10,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 11,914 lbs / 5,404 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 239.96 ft / 73.14 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 28.54 ft / 8.70 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 89.40 ft / 27.25 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 128,000 shp / 95,488 Kw = 29.56 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,923 tons
Complement:
1,186 - 1,543
Cost:
£3.469 million / $13.875 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,156 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 2,156 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 7,980 tons, 25.2 %
- Belts: 3,453 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 741 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 1,655 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,927 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Tower: 204 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,931 tons, 15.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,993 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,669 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,940 tons, 6.1 %
- Hull below water: 1,350 tons
- Hull above water: 150 tons
- On freeboard deck: 400 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,344 lbs / 18,300 Kg = 33.6 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.557 / 0.563
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.74 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.97 ft / 1.82 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.84 ft / 6.96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.2 %
Waterplane Area: 48,977 Square feet or 4,550 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 853 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Quarter deck armor represents a 25mm armored deck and an additional 35t of armor protection for stearing gear rather than a uniform 35mm armored deck.
Misc Distribution
--Below Water (1350t)
----1235t Electric Drives
----40t Additional Pumps
----35t Enhanced Subdivision
----20t Enhanced Damage Control Equipment
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
--Above Water (150t)
----50t Improved Officer Accommodations
----50t Improved Crew Accommodations
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
----20t Short-Range Wireless (x2)
----10t Construction Reserve
--On Deck (400t)
----216t 1912 Fire Control
----60t Flag Facilities
----20t Admiralty Accommodations
----50t Long-Range Wireless (x2)
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
----20t Night Fighting Equipment
----14t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (40t)
----20t Improved Aquisition Structures
----10t Additional Searchlights
----10t Improved Signaling Equipment
1940 tons of misc weight is... a lot. Why do you need to account for electric drives in misc weight? Is that a SS3B3 deficiency I missed?
Quote from: Guinness on June 25, 2020, 07:42:54 PM
1940 tons of misc weight is... a lot. Why do you need to account for electric drives in misc weight? Is that a SS3B3 deficiency I missed?
It's in the rules.
If you go with electric drives, it's 25% of your engines in additional Misc weight. But you get a 15% increase to range, and your ship gets additional damage control capabilities due to increased compartmentalization and lack of long shaft runs going all the way to the turbines, plus your boiler and turbine rooms can be staggered since they're driving generators. Or your diesels. You can stack the Diesel bonus AND the electric drive bonus.
A general rule for me is that if a ship has more than 6000nm range, electric drives may be worth it.
Springsharp has never properly accounted for the weight difference between drive types. Rather than it being a meaningless checkbox, when setting up the rules I added some misc weight modifiers and benifits.
Quote from: snip on June 25, 2020, 11:23:05 PM
Springsharp has never properly accounted for the weight difference between drive types. Rather than it being a meaningless checkbox, when setting up the rules I added some misc weight modifiers and benifits.
For my part on the electric drive vessels I mark the misc weight as 'turbogenerators' just to highlight it.
I'm finding it hard to fit into my cruisers, but still looking at it for battlewagons and then Auxiliaries.
From a combat perspective, being able to fully reverse one set of shafts made 'standard' US battleships more maneuverable, which will show up trying to avoid torpedoes - reducing their To Hit.
The allowance for torpedo flotation damage will be higher than the SS default, as a result of the better subdivision allowed.
Quote from: TacCovert4 on June 25, 2020, 07:47:40 PM
It's in the rules.
So it is. I find the range bonus interesting. Is that because turbines could always be run at their optimal speed?
Quote from: Guinness on June 26, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
So it is. I find the range bonus interesting. Is that because turbines could always be run at their optimal speed?
While I can't say that's why Snip did it, that was the real life results :)
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on June 26, 2020, 02:28:30 PM
Quote from: Guinness on June 26, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
So it is. I find the range bonus interesting. Is that because turbines could always be run at their optimal speed?
While I can't say that's why Snip did it, that was the real life results :)
That is why I did it. Same reason why non-direct drives and diesels have range bonuses
Way more expensive to do, but the benefits were clear.
There is a reason real steam-turbine powered ships are getting rare. The only big selling point for those is when there is waste heat to recover*, or nuke teakettles involved.
The rest are gas-turbine electric, (with steam power recovery), pure diesel, or diesel-electric.
I worked on a diesel electric plant last year. 3 sets of twin 750kw/1000HP units on azipod swivels. 2 fixed bow thrusters and 1 retractable swivel bow unit.
That ship had a 4" stationkeeping accuracy in 7 beaufort. Logical actualy, as it could be used as a mobile repair yard for oil platforms. The big crane can lift 250 tons at 60m full extension.
(they use the small crane with a water filled bladder, combined with the ballast tanks as counterweight, the pump-array to keep that ballet orchestrated is another sight to behold. Man, I loved that job.)
*LNG carriers for example, those vent gas to keep the spherical tanks cooled, that vented gas is used for the turbine.
Quote from: maddox on June 26, 2020, 02:55:41 PM
Way more expensive to do, but the benefits were clear.
There is a reason real steam-turbine powered ships are getting rare. The only big selling point for those is when there is waste heat to recover*, or nuke teakettles involved.
The rest are gas-turbine electric, (with steam power recovery), pure diesel, or diesel-electric.
I worked on a diesel electric plant last year. 3 sets of twin 750kw/1000HP units on azipod swivels. 2 fixed bow thrusters and 1 retractable swivel bow unit.
That ship had a 4" stationkeeping accuracy in 7 beaufort. Logical actualy, as it could be used as a mobile repair yard for oil platforms. The big crane can lift 250 tons at 60m full extension.
(they use the small crane with a water filled bladder, combined with the ballast tanks as counterweight, the pump-array to keep that ballet orchestrated is another sight to behold. Man, I loved that job.)
*LNG carriers for example, those vent gas to keep the spherical tanks cooled, that vented gas is used for the turbine.
Yeah, Turbo Electric or Diesel Electric also have some interesting tactical benefits. The ship can be run in reverse at the same propeller RPM as forward, so like the USS Maryland it can 'back' its way to port if it's suffered severe bow damage. And there's almost no 'spool up' in changing RPMs or even prop direction, so a T-E or D-E ship can change speed or even course (using the props at different speeds to assist the rudders) extremely rapidly.
The ability to use full power in reverse is why I'm putting Electrics on all of my landing ships. If they are grounded in the process of running Marines ashore, they can use full power to pull themselves off. Plus I add tonnage for a hydraulic motored winch and stern anchor which can be dropped or run out by boat to give yet more pulling power for an un-beaching.
And the efficiency of Diesel-Electric makes it ideal for the Pacific. In general, if you're concerned about the range vs weight, over 6000nm range is where Electrics start overtaking direct drives. By the time you get to 9000nm range, if you're not using electric motors, you're wasting tonnage.
Quote from: TacCovert4 on June 26, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
The ability to use full power in reverse is why I'm putting Electrics on all of my landing ships. If they are grounded in the process of running Marines ashore, they can use full power to pull themselves off. Plus I add tonnage for a hydraulic motored winch and stern anchor which can be dropped or run out by boat to give yet more pulling power for an un-beaching.
This makes me a little concerned.
The effectiveness of landing craft is governed by your amphibious tech.
Not by what ships you may or may not have in your fleet.
Standard amphibious transport is completely covered by your deployment points.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on June 26, 2020, 06:57:16 PM
Quote from: TacCovert4 on June 26, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
The ability to use full power in reverse is why I'm putting Electrics on all of my landing ships. If they are grounded in the process of running Marines ashore, they can use full power to pull themselves off. Plus I add tonnage for a hydraulic motored winch and stern anchor which can be dropped or run out by boat to give yet more pulling power for an un-beaching.
This makes me a little concerned.
The effectiveness of landing craft is governed by your amphibious tech.
Not by what ships you may or may not have in your fleet.
Standard amphibious transport is completely covered by your deployment points.
Well, good thing I'm not building them in vast numbers currently. I guess that means I basically have some smaller fleet tenders it seems.
Quote from: TacCovert4 on June 26, 2020, 10:48:46 PM
Well, good thing I'm not building them in vast numbers currently. I guess that means I basically have some smaller fleet tenders it seems.
It's a little better than that.
Foxy did use use his exploration ships to dash over from Japan and land listening posts on Korean islands.
The speed and armament of those vessels was therefore a variable for that small scale job.
Otherwise he would have had to send generic transports.
..which what the Chinese did later. But since the Korean islands are a great deal closer to their ports, they were able to respond unmolested.
I just wanted to make sure you (and any others) were aware that what matters for that sort of thing is the tech.
The pregame decision is that auxiliaries are not a sector that players have to worry about if they don't want to.
The only exception being fleet train (Fleet supply) if you want to operate away from bases.
Since I have two huge rivers in my colonial clutches, some small river gunboats are in order. Coal fired to allow for use of wood in emergencies, simple engines for ease of upkeep in more remote areas.
QuoteRGS-14, Imperial Roman Colonial River Sloop laid down 1913
Displacement:
165 t light; 170 t standard; 195 t normal; 215 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(170.60 ft / 170.60 ft) x 22.15 ft x (3.28 / 3.55 ft)
(52.00 m / 52.00 m) x 6.75 m x (1.00 / 1.08 m)
Armament:
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 75 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7 lbs / 3 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 500 ihp / 373 Kw = 13.96 kts
Range 3,500nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 45 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
25 - 33
Cost:
£0.019 million / $0.076 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0.9 %
- Guns: 2 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 1 tons, 0.5 %
- Armament: 1 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 79 tons, 40.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 82 tons, 42.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 29 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 1 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
230 lbs / 104 Kg = 82.6 x 1.8 " / 45 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.76
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 8.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.561
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.70 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Average freeboard: 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 134.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.3 %
Waterplane Area: 2,637 Square feet or 245 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 120 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.02
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
And a larger CDS intended for the Amazon as there are not quite enough modern capital units to go around.
QuoteCCDS-13, Imperial Roman Colonial Coast Defense Ship laid down 1913
Displacement:
5,000 t light; 5,207 t standard; 5,385 t normal; 5,527 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(306.76 ft / 306.76 ft) x 73.82 ft x (16.40 / 16.73 ft)
(93.50 m / 93.50 m) x 22.50 m x (5.00 / 5.10 m)
Armament:
4 - 8.27" / 210 mm 45.0 cal guns - 242.51lbs / 110.00kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,493 lbs / 677 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.09" / 180 mm 201.54 ft / 61.43 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 108.50 ft / 33.07 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 4.72" / 120 mm 7.09" / 180 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.56" / 65 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 4,000 ihp / 2,984 Kw = 14.84 kts
Range 3,500nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 320 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
313 - 408
Cost:
£0.416 million / $1.665 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 498 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 498 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 2,306 tons, 42.8 %
- Belts: 1,349 tons, 25.1 %
- Armament: 253 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 652 tons, 12.1 %
- Conning Tower: 52 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 261 tons, 4.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,570 tons, 29.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 385 tons, 7.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 365 tons, 6.8 %
- Hull below water: 75 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,976 lbs / 5,886 Kg = 45.9 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.507 / 0.511
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.16 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 47.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.6 %
Waterplane Area: 15,190 Square feet or 1,411 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 488 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.86
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I feel like the river sloops have somewhat excessive range for their mission, even if the rivers in question are long.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on July 14, 2020, 07:20:50 PM
I feel like the river sloops have somewhat excessive range for their mission, even if the rivers in question are long.
I would agree. Tonnage that could probably be better spent elsewhere. The french liked to put armor on their river boats to resist mg fire since an mg ambush is likely.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on July 14, 2020, 07:20:50 PM
I feel like the river sloops have somewhat excessive range for their mission, even if the rivers in question are long.
The range is derived from the coal load of the Doudart de la Gree, a French riverboat from 1908 in the China service, which served as the base for this design. While I agree the range feels long, I'm thinking its more of an asset than a issue since you have a large amount of operational reserve for what will amount to out-and-back voyages with one way against the current. That going against a consistent current is something that SS does not model and I would suspect the practical operating range to be less because of it. Also with resupply being limited to one, maybe two, locations a lot more overhead to cover times the ship may be loitering in one location but still needing to keep steam up makes sense to me.
45 tons of coal represents 50m³
Fills a nice amount of sandbags.
So all this discussion elsewhere about mines made me realise that I dont realy have any meaningful mine-laying capacity and this seems useful to possess. While I've got a bunch of obsolete VTE cruisers I can convert into ok-ish platforms for mining, I dont have anything fast that can do the job. Im thinking this is a good starting point. Misc wieght is intended to be 150 mines and 50t of other goodies like FC, wireless sets, etc. The inspiration should be clear.
QuoteNot-Abdiel, Imperial Roman Fast Mine Cruiser laid down 1914
Displacement:
3,238 t light; 3,324 t standard; 3,750 t normal; 4,091 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(410.09 ft / 400.26 ft) x 40.19 ft x (14.76 / 15.82 ft)
(125.00 m / 122.00 m) x 12.25 m x (4.50 / 4.82 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 130 lbs / 59 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 50,000 shp / 37,300 Kw = 31.04 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 767 tons
Complement:
239 - 311
Cost:
£0.488 million / $1.950 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 0.6 %
- Guns: 24 tons, 0.6 %
Armour: 2 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,882 tons, 50.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,130 tons, 30.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 512 tons, 13.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 5.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,734 lbs / 787 Kg = 56.8 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.553 / 0.562
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.07 ft / 0.63 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Average freeboard: 16.36 ft / 4.99 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.5 %
Waterplane Area: 11,254 Square feet or 1,046 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 271 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 1.95
- Overall: 0.90
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Something's wrong. You list four 3.94-inch guns but only give locations for two.
Should be twin mounts, does not change anything drastic.
OK, still a bit confused about layout of the guns.
Also, your composite strength is 0.90; shouldn't that trigger a "hull strain in open seas" warning?
Quote from: eltf177 on August 17, 2020, 09:58:29 AM
OK, still a bit confused about layout of the guns.
Also, your composite strength is 0.90; shouldn't that trigger a "hull strain in open seas" warning?
SS seems balanced for battleships, not taking into account the lighter weight scantlings and engines typically found on cruisers and destroyers.
So we allow lesser hull values, this is cruiser architecture, so 0.9 is allowed under our rules.
As for the warning...dunno, guessing Snip may have deleted it as it's not accurate per our rules.
Sometimes SS recognizes that you're building a light fast ship, and accordingly will let you get away with .9 before it starts freaking out.
I assume the main battery is twin over twin, all forward, like the historical Abdiel.
No superfiring, one near the front of the fordeck and one near the rear of the fordeck, superstructure in between. This is so the aft 100mm mount can shoot aft over the rear of the ship.
Excellent & useful ship ;)
And inspiring....... ;)
To start put a nice bow on things that are needed in the next sim report, the finalize sim of Jeanne d'Arc. Some minor adjustments in anti-aircraft armament and TDS bulkhead distance.
Quote
Jeanne d'Arc, Imperial Roman Large Armored Cruiser laid down 1914
Displacement:
28,000 t light; 29,490 t standard; 31,670 t normal; 33,414 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(702.12 ft / 685.70 ft) x 101.71 ft x (28.54 / 29.79 ft)
(214.00 m / 209.00 m) x 31.00 m x (8.70 / 9.08 m)
Armament:
8 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1906 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 raised mounts
4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 120 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 10,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11,927 lbs / 5,410 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 239.96 ft / 73.14 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 28.54 ft / 8.70 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.20" / 5 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
4th: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
5th: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 128,000 shp / 95,488 Kw = 29.55 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,923 tons
Complement:
1,186 - 1,543
Cost:
£3.470 million / $13.879 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,159 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 2,159 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 7,974 tons, 25.2 %
- Belts: 3,443 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 741 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 1,662 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,924 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Tower: 204 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,931 tons, 15.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,995 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,670 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,940 tons, 6.1 %
- Hull below water: 1,350 tons
- Hull above water: 150 tons
- On freeboard deck: 400 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,339 lbs / 18,297 Kg = 33.6 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.557 / 0.563
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.74 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.97 ft / 1.82 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 22.84 ft / 6.96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.3 %
Waterplane Area: 48,991 Square feet or 4,551 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 854 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Quarter deck armor represents a 25mm armored deck and an additional 35t of armor protection for stearing gear rather than a uniform 35mm armored deck.
Misc Distribution
--Below Water (1350t)
----1235t Electric Drives
----40t Additional Pumps
----35t Enhanced Subdivision
----20t Enhanced Damage Control Equipment
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
--Above Water (150t)
----50t Improved Officer Accommodations
----50t Improved Crew Accommodations
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
----20t Short-Range Wireless (x2)
----10t Construction Reserve
--On Deck (400t)
----216t 1912 Fire Control
----60t Flag Facilities
----20t Admiralty Accommodations
----50t Long-Range Wireless (x2)
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
----20t Night Fighting Equipment
----14t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (40t)
----20t Improved Aquisition Structures
----10t Night Fighting Equipment
----10t Improved Signaling Equipment
Quote...Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 239.96 ft / 73.14 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length...
I think you must have 90mm Upper Belt (?)
Quote from: Jefgte on September 08, 2020, 04:11:12 AM
Quote...Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 445.70 ft / 135.85 m 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 239.96 ft / 73.14 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length...
I think you must have 90mm Upper Belt (?)
Not once you reach a certain capital ship tech. Forgot it right off since I'm on my phone. But its right around this time when new ships might not have upper belts.
Why does it have a mixed 140mm & 100mm battery? That's not good for anti-MTB/DD fire control, wind up with the 'multiple ship' penalty for your own shells.
correct
Quote1910: Superfiring turrets (unrestricted firing arcs), "All or Nothing" Protective Schemes, "Pair of Twins" Quadruple turrets
The "All or Nothing" allows you to forgo armor outside the 'armored raft'.
Like most techs, the date seems to relate to a real event about 2 years later, in this case the end of 1912 (eff 1913) laydown of USS
Nevada, which had AON, and the 1913 laydowns of the Quad-turret French
Normandie class.
To me the interesting thing is the 1912 Fire control tech allows ranges of 14km.
Now it's belt is probably proof against it's own guns at 14km, but secondary and tertiary guns can be effective at that range and very well may be starting fires and wrecking your topsides if you're close enough for effective FC. Not until 1918 tech comes in does the range expand. Even then, only when visibility allows.
The armor the ships is also aimed at the longer ranges, so the expectation may be it won't fight other capital ships in close, but only at long range.
But at that point the deck armor at 60mm is both a little light for diving shells, and vulnerable to splinters from shells over 360mm. Admittedly that's newer guns, but this is a ship laying down in 1914, entering service 1918...
To be planning on fighting at 18-24km now is unreasonable foresight, as the needed fire control and communications and planes aren't at the point where a plane can carry a radio or a ship can effectively aim at that range.
So perhaps it's just not meant to fight other capital ships? It has great range, perhaps a heavy raider?
Jeanne's existence is meant as an anti-armored cruiser. Big and nasty enough to be able to trounce anything she can catch, and run from what can reliably hurt her. Basically the same reason the Respublica exists, just better at it by virtue of being younger. The armor derives from this, its enough as you note to keep her vitals and buoyancy (reasonably) safe from harm up to capital ship weapons at longer ranges. Sure the sections outside the armor will get damage from lighter weapons, but what an upper belt or multiple armored decks would reasonably protect would be not that much for the cost they would add in weight. The preservation of buoyancy and speed is why she retains full length waterline armor, 50mm is viewed as adequate at keeping out more numerous smaller guns at range while armoring against known heavier, but slower firing, armored cruiser main guns would again be to expensive in weight. Untimely, its far easier to repair a ship that to build a new one and that is what her armor seeks to accomplish against planned foes. Will she be face ships with capital sized weapons, its likely but the only ones I would have any reasonable idea about that can stand up to her speed when JdA is started would be the Wicklows and Eupatorias.
As for the deck and >360mm splinters, the only guns I see as of 1913H2 that are in development or in service over that threshold are my 410mm, Parinthian 365mm, and Byzantine 381mm. I realistically only have to worry about getting shot at by one of those (many many things would go wrong to end up on the business end of the Parinthian or my own guns) and the Jeanne is not meant for the Med.
The mixed 140/100 battery is a current "feature/bug" of Roman capital ships as the 140 is felt to be to slow firing to be an effective uniform anti-TB battery, while the 100 does not have the range or stopping power to be the same. The obvious answer is something in the 115-130mm range, but that takes dev time. Without any direct combat experience to the contrary, the shell splash issue will be a rude discovery as to how bad it really is when that combat experience becomes available. The 140s are at least large enough to be reasonable weapons to turn on the upper works of larger ships and can hurt older or smaller cruisers quite well.
The 7000@14knts is the new standard for Roman ships, allowing for a rapid transit of the Atlantic (~4500nm from Brest to Texas) to arrive in the Caribbean with what is felt to be enough reserve fuel to conduct an engagement without opportunity to refuel after crossing. What it allows for a large armored cruiser to do as a raider or counter-raider is secondary.
It's a tough ship to design against. One either duplicates, builds something even more expensive, or just does not compete.
The choice "All or Nothing" is debatable.
For me, "It's All and a Little".
Reducing the size of impacts (hull holes) and the effect of explosions is not without interest for the performances of the ship and the men during the battles.
Just my thinking...
Quote from: Jefgte on September 09, 2020, 09:48:51 AM
The choice "All or Nothing" is debatable.
For me, "It's All and a Little".
Reducing the size of impacts (hull holes) and the effect of explosions is not without interest for the performances of the ship and the men during the battles.
Just my thinking...
To some degree it really matters what the ship is likely to get into. A Battleship (once the ranges start stretching) for instance is unlikely to get into a firefight where it's going to take hits that end belts or even upper belts can help against, and be worth all the extra tonnage. However, at that same point, it's highly likely to take large-caliber hits to the main belt or deck and those being as thick as possible will help keep fire and water out of important things like boiler rooms and magazines.
On the other hand, a cruiser or even a battlecruiser (thinking about independent operations) is more likely to get into those sorts of situations. and is more likely to get into those situations far from a fleet train that can help quickly and efficiently patch up holes or even replace some lost crew.
The last of my H1 new constructions, the Pilum class Large Destroyers. Intended to serve as leaders to the existing small destroyer flotillas as well as be capable of outright destroyer duties. The range doesn't quite stretch to be able to hop from Brest to Cuba/Texas in one go at 14knt, but should be able to make the journey on one full bunker at a slower speed.
QuoteLRD-14B, Imperial Roman Destroyer laid down 1914
Displacement:
1,500 t light; 1,567 t standard; 1,760 t normal; 1,914 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(354.32 ft / 344.49 ft) x 31.17 ft x (13.94 / 14.75 ft)
(108.00 m / 105.00 m) x 9.50 m x (4.25 / 4.50 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 225 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
1 raised mount aft
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 254 lbs / 115 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 32.26 kts
Range 3,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 347 tons
Complement:
135 - 176
Cost:
£0.260 million / $1.039 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 38 tons, 2.2 %
- Guns: 38 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 4 tons, 0.2 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 993 tons, 56.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 415 tons, 23.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 260 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
382 lbs / 173 Kg = 12.5 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.411 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.05 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.07 ft / 0.63 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 60.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 13.60 ft / 4.15 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 189.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.2 %
Waterplane Area: 6,655 Square feet or 618 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 152 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.78
- Overall: 0.57
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
--25t Long Range Wireless
--18t 2x3 530mm Torpedo [Centerline mounts, for and aft of the Q-mount 100mm guns]
--4t 1912 FC
--3t Flotilla Command Facilities
Something a bit less sexy, but important. With the Rapid Atlantic Transit now a real strategic thing, the existing fleet train cannot keep up with new units in the pipe. A updated and slightly large version of the Faber Ferraius is planned, named Malleus Vulcani. Able to handle out-of-port supply for a massive amount of shipping, the Malleus Vulcani has the speed to keep up with newer warships. At least one planned, constructed to civilian standards.
QuoteFSS-14, Imperial Roman Fleet Support Ship laid down 1914
Displacement:
9,140 t light; 9,361 t standard; 10,628 t normal; 11,643 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(426.51 ft / 426.51 ft) x 49.21 ft x (23.79 / 25.81 ft)
(130.00 m / 130.00 m) x 15.00 m x (7.25 / 7.87 m)
Armament:
2 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 75 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 50 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
2 double raised mounts
4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 10,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 179 lbs / 81 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
- Box over machinery & magazines:
1.18" / 30 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,000 ihp / 5,968 Kw = 16.41 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,282 tons
Complement:
523 - 680
Cost:
£0.506 million / $2.026 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 0.3 %
- Guns: 35 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 79 tons, 0.7 %
- Armament: 5 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 74 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 478 tons, 4.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,948 tons, 18.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,488 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6,600 tons, 62.1 %
- Hull below water: 3,000 tons
- Hull above water: 2,000 tons
- On freeboard deck: 1,200 tons
- Above deck: 400 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,155 lbs / 5,967 Kg = 157.1 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.74
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.745 / 0.752
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 29
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.46 ft / 4.71 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.4 %
Waterplane Area: 17,505 Square feet or 1,626 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 339 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.33
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Misc Distribution
--Below Water (3000t)
----3000t Resupply
--Above Water (2000t)
----2000t Resupply
--On Deck (1200t)
----700t Resupply
----500t Cranes and other logistical equipment
--Above Deck (400t)
----200t Resupply
----200t Cranes and other logistical equipment
Interesting boat. Similar to my Sojourner class but with less armament. Which makes sense given that the sojourners are made for trans Pacific operations and could find themselves operating with a very light escort or no escort for periods.