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BB El Rey Alfonso XII

El Rey Alfonso XII, Spain Battleship laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   9 327 t light; 9 923 t standard; 10 649 t normal; 11 230 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (380,91 ft / 376,97 ft) x 67,59 ft x (22,97 / 24,02 ft)
   (116,10 m / 114,90 m) x 20,60 m  x (7,00 / 7,32 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,71lbs / 376,35kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      14 - 5,51" / 140 mm 45,0 cal guns - 84,44lbs / 38,30kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in lower casemates- Limited use in any sea
      4 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 12,83lbs / 5,82kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      4 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 12,83lbs / 5,82kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 1,06" / 27,0 mm 27,0 cal guns - 0,55lbs / 0,25kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4 607 lbs / 2 090 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,1" / 256 mm   253,28 ft / 77,20 m   7,55 ft / 2,30 m
   Ends:   3,94" / 100 mm   123,69 ft / 37,70 m   7,55 ft / 2,30 m
   Upper:   3,35" / 85 mm   253,25 ft / 77,19 m   10,83 ft / 3,30 m
     Main Belt covers 103% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,99" / 203 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   5,51" / 140 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1,97" / 50 mm         -               -
   4th:   1,97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2,95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 2,17" / 55 mm  Quarter deck: 2,17" / 55 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10,08" / 256 mm, Aft 2,95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14 818 ihp / 11 054 Kw = 19,00 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 306 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   523 - 681

Cost:
   £0,987 million / $3,947 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 718 tons, 6,7%
      - Guns: 718 tons, 6,7%
   Armour: 3 218 tons, 30,2%
      - Belts: 1 399 tons, 13,1%
      - Armament: 674 tons, 6,3%
      - Armour Deck: 1 009 tons, 9,5%
      - Conning Towers: 136 tons, 1,3%
   Machinery: 2 315 tons, 21,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 035 tons, 28,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 323 tons, 12,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 0,4%
      - Hull below water: 8 tons
      - Hull above water: 32 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10 784 lbs / 4 892 Kg = 12,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 14,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,55

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,637 / 0,642
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,58 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,42 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3,28 ft / -1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m,  17,72 ft / 5,40 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  17,39 ft / 5,30 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Average freeboard:      17,32 ft / 5,28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,4%
   Waterplane Area: 19 285 Square feet or 1 792 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 579 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,90
      - Longitudinal: 2,60
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
       
        Misc weights:
       -  4x18'' TT + reload - 8 t
       -  Long range radio - 25 t
       -  Equipment and supply - 15 t

Protected cruiser Cordoba

Cordoba, Spain Cruiser laid down 1905 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   4 997 t light; 5 182 t standard; 5 600 t normal; 5 934 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (383,83 ft / 382,19 ft) x 52,46 ft x (17,49 / 18,32 ft)
   (116,99 m / 116,49 m) x 15,99 m  x (5,33 / 5,58 m)

Armament:
      10 - 5,51" / 140 mm 45,0 cal guns - 84,44lbs / 38,30kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 0,94" / 24,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,44lbs / 0,20kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 868 lbs / 394 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,36" / 60 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 2,36" / 60 mm  Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16 997 ihp / 12 680 Kw = 22,10 kts
   Range 4 200nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 752 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   323 - 420

Cost:
   £0,588 million / $2,352 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 131 tons, 2,3%
      - Guns: 131 tons, 2,3%
   Armour: 701 tons, 12,5%
      - Armament: 64 tons, 1,1%
      - Armour Deck: 621 tons, 11,1%
      - Conning Tower: 16 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 2 656 tons, 47,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 460 tons, 26,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 602 tons, 10,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,9%
      - Hull above water: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 735 lbs / 1 241 Kg = 32,7 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,53
   Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 11,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,559 / 0,566
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -1,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   23,00%,  15,75 ft / 4,80 m,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  15,09 ft / 4,60 m,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Aft deck:   24,00%,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Quarter deck:   23,00%,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m,  15,09 ft / 4,60 m
      - Average freeboard:      15,03 ft / 4,58 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123,6%
   Waterplane Area: 14 111 Square feet or 1 311 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 350 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,69
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
       
        Misc weights:
        - Long range radio - 25 t
        - 6x18" TT + reloads - 12 t
        -  Equipment and supply - 3 t

Gunboat Type 6

GB-6, Spain Gunboat laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   1 000 t light; 1 050 t standard; 1 130 t normal; 1 195 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (227,17 ft / 226,38 ft) x 38,62 ft x (9,84 / 10,24 ft)
   (69,24 m / 69,00 m) x 11,77 m  x (3,00 / 3,12 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5,51" / 140 mm 45,0 cal guns - 84,44lbs / 38,30kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 326 lbs / 148 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,36" / 60 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 5,91" / 150 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 453 ihp / 2 576 Kw = 18,10 kts
   Range 2 100nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 145 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   96 - 126

Cost:
   £0,118 million / $0,472 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 48 tons, 4,2%
      - Guns: 48 tons, 4,2%
   Armour: 39 tons, 3,5%
      - Armament: 26 tons, 2,3%
      - Conning Tower: 14 tons, 1,2%
   Machinery: 487 tons, 43,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 394 tons, 34,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 130 tons, 11,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 32 tons, 2,8%
      - Hull above water: 6 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 26 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     778 lbs / 353 Kg = 9,3 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,47
   Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 10,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,59

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,460 / 0,467
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,79 ft / 0,24 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m,  12,80 ft / 3,90 m
      - Average freeboard:      12,04 ft / 3,67 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 153,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131,7%
   Waterplane Area: 5 622 Square feet or 522 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 50 lbs/sq ft or 246 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,88
      - Longitudinal: 2,98
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

       Misc weights:
       -  Long range radio - 25 t
       -  76 mm cannon on field gun carriage x 2 - 1 t
       - Equipment and supply - 6 t 

Ship has extremely low Cb but doesn't fit the archetype of a DD/DDL, it's slow (only 18kn) and fat (5.86 LB). Range is very short and stability, seakeeping, and steadiness is excessive. The misc weight allocated to the 76mm field gun is also strange.

1) I don't believe Spain has that many rivers to defend beyond the reach of it's army.
2) The seakeeping is in far excess of what a river would dictate.
3) The draft is higher than I would expect from a river craft.

If it can't operate in a river, the 76mm field gun will do nothing. What exactly is the mission objective of the vessel and how does it fit into the Spanish naval doctrine?

Logi, what's the river?

As you know, gunboat is a naval watercraft designed for the express purpose of carrying one or more guns to bombard coastal targets, as opposed to those military craft designed for naval warfare, or for ferrying troops or supplies.

My gunboat is a naval ship designed for protection of the metropolis and colonies coast, as well as patrols in the Straits, gulfs, bays and estuaries.

For the small Spanish Navy ships of this type is necessary: it is accessible, versatile, can perform a variety of tasks, including the conduct of hostilities in shallow water, preventing landing and landing self troops on the coast.
Gunboats may at some time replace the larger classes of ships, the construction of which had financial difficulties and lack of BP.

Since this is a small ship, and the rules specifically for this class is not described, I have used General: the block coefficient is not less than 0,38, stability not less and not more than 1. The boat is seaworthy, not turned over, stable on the wave. Given its coastal service, a low side and a length to width ratio is justified.

Quote from: olekit24 on March 14, 2016, 03:17:25 AM
My gunboat is a naval ship designed for protection of the metropolis and colonies coast, as well as patrols in the Straits, gulfs, bays and estuaries.

It's quite big for it's merger task as it is double the size of a maximum DD. I'm saying you could probably save significant amounts of displacement by reduce the seakeeping, stability, and steadiness as they are in excess.

A destroyer could be designed to carry 3x15cm guns with 4000nm@10kn endurance while having a max practical (non-trial) speed of 27kn and a short-range wireless, all on 500 tons. Therefore your 1000t gunboat is much larger than I would expect for what it does. See Jeftge's designs - they are much smaller and still accomplish the task at hand.

You have 1.47 stability (far higher than the 1.08-1.10 on the designs of other folks), 100% steadiness (way over the 70% recommendation - which is already better than OTL ships), and 1.56 seakeeping which is higher than the the 1.50 breakoff and significantly higher than it would need in the sea zones it operates in.

In other words,

Quote from: olekit24 on March 14, 2016, 03:17:25 AM
For the small Spanish Navy ships of this type is necessary: it is accessible, versatile, can perform a variety of tasks, including the conduct of hostilities in shallow water, preventing landing and landing self troops on the coast.
Gunboats may at some time replace the larger classes of ships, the construction of which had financial difficulties and lack of BP.

Your gunboats themselves are far too large for their capability. In addition, you mention landing self troops on the coast, but you don't have the misc weight for that. As you seem to have looked at the design guidelines, you'll note it says you need 1t per 4 troops on a short term (<1 day) embarkment. You have six tons for equipment and supply. Unless you plan to transport a maximum of 24 men per trip, the gunboat can not accomplish that mission. Not only would 24 men not make it in any opposed landing, simply transferring a brigade across the sea would require 521 trips, meaning it would take 2 to 2.5 years to transport a single brigade at max turnover rate (your ship needs time to dock and resupply as well as travel).

Quote from: olekit24 on March 14, 2016, 03:17:25 AM
Given its coastal service, a low side and a length to width ratio is justified.

That would be true... if your Cb was significantly higher. Since you seem to be unaware, the typical Cb of a destroyer was on the order of 0.45, cruisers were at 0.51 -0.55, whilst battleships (and other slow craft) typically tend to be 0.58-0.67 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,727.msg44539.html#msg44539). Cb influences resistance and propulsion (SS doesn't account for this) so it ought to suit the speed of a vessel. At 18kn and 5.86 LB, your ship is plainly a slow ship but at the same time you have the Cb of a destroyer. Do you see how absurd that is?


So your design is confused about what it wants to do.
The mission entails extended loitering by the ship, but it has pitiful endurance (2100nm@10kn).
It's speed, though low at 18kn, is in far excessive of what the mission entails.
The number of rounds it carries for it's quick-firing guns is quite inadequate for loitering at only 150 rounds per.
The ship is excessively fine in Cb but fat in LB. In effect, your ship looks like cross between a triangular prism and a fully-on pyramid underwater.
The design's mission is to stay near coasts and bays (calm waters), but has seakeeping suited for the roughest portions of the open ocean.
It doesn't have enough weight to carry meaningful amount of troops, but still claims to be able to.
It's armament is quite heavy for a mission that involves bombarding colonial coasts - which are not stocked with coast defenses.

okey, I understand you. I'll redesign that ship.

Heavy guns (for such kind of a ship) fre normal, if to see examples. Moreover, Most of that teople believed, that such ships can can join the battle with the larger enemy ships...

Quote from: Logi on March 14, 2016, 05:10:16 AM

That would be true... if your Cb was significantly higher. Since you seem to be unaware, the typical Cb of a destroyer was on the order of 0.45, cruisers were at 0.51 -0.55, whilst battleships (and other slow craft) typically tend to be 0.58-0.67 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,727.msg44539.html#msg44539). Cb influences resistance and propulsion (SS doesn't account for this) so it ought to suit the speed of a vessel...

Logi, this is a subject that comes up over and over, and while I had seen that post before, I had forgotten it was around. Do you think you could place that link under the block coefficient part of Design guidelines ? 

I have redone design of gunboat.

Gunboat Type 6

The main objective of this type of gunboats is to compensate for the lack of large ships (cruisers) in the Spanish Navy, to have the ability to perform the following tasks:
- defend seashore and gulfs/straights/bays/river mouthes
- ply between the island territories of the country  (Canareas - Spain - Baleares)
- serve in the spain colonoes
- fight at shallow waters/open sea against lignt ships/cruisers
- transport and land troops on the shore  (one batallion +2 guns)
- escort civilian ships
- perform raiding operations on the trade routes on the high seas and near the shore

GB-6, Spain Gunboat laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   1 000 t light; 1 069 t standard; 1 185 t normal; 1 278 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,66 ft / 228,87 ft) x 31,30 ft x (10,43 / 11,08 ft)
   (70,00 m / 69,76 m) x 9,54 m  x (3,18 / 3,38 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5,51" / 140 mm 45,0 cal guns - 84,44lbs / 38,30kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,84lbs / 15,35kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 326 lbs / 148 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,57" / 40 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 5,91" / 150 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 096 ihp / 2 310 Kw = 17,46 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 210 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   100 - 131

Cost:
   £0,116 million / $0,463 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 48 tons, 4,0%
      - Guns: 48 tons, 4,0%
   Armour: 30 tons, 2,5%
      - Armament: 16 tons, 1,3%
      - Conning Tower: 14 tons, 1,2%
   Machinery: 470 tons, 39,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 361 tons, 30,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 185 tons, 15,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 91 tons, 7,7%
      - Hull above water: 16 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     801 lbs / 363 Kg = 9,6 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,35
   Metacentric height 1,5 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 10,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,97

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,555 / 0,564
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,13 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,79 ft / 0,24 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m,  12,80 ft / 3,90 m
      - Average freeboard:      12,04 ft / 3,67 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,0%
   Waterplane Area: 5 023 Square feet or 467 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 45 lbs/sq ft or 220 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,88
      - Longitudinal: 3,17
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


        Misc weights:
        - short range radio - 10 t (100 miles quite enough)
        - troops, one batallion (300 persons) - 75 t
        - 76 mm cannon on field gun carriage x 2 - 1 t
        - Equipment and supply - 5 t

Torpedo cruiser Destructor

Destructor, Spain Crucero de torpedo laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   1 000 t light; 1 036 t standard; 1 150 t normal; 1 241 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,66 ft / 228,54 ft) x 29,43 ft x (11,19 / 11,88 ft)
   (70,00 m / 69,66 m) x 8,97 m  x (3,41 / 3,62 m)

Armament:
      3 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 190 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 27,0 cal guns - 1,41lbs / 0,64kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 118 lbs / 54 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 221 ihp / 4 641 Kw = 20,90 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 205 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   98 - 128

Cost:
   £0,128 million / $0,513 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 17 tons, 1,4%
      - Guns: 17 tons, 1,4%
   Armour: 7 tons, 0,6%
      - Armament: 7 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 630 tons, 54,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 326 tons, 28,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 150 tons, 13,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 1,7%
      - Hull above water: 16 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 4 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     421 lbs / 191 Kg = 11,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,35
   Metacentric height 1,4 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 10,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,535 / 0,544
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,77 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,12 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 79
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -3,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,12 ft / 0,34 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25,00%,  15,65 ft / 4,77 m,  15,65 ft / 4,77 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  9,71 ft / 2,96 m,  9,71 ft / 2,96 m
      - Aft deck:   25,00%,  9,71 ft / 2,96 m,  9,71 ft / 2,96 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00%,  9,71 ft / 2,96 m,  9,71 ft / 2,96 m
      - Average freeboard:      11,20 ft / 3,41 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 183,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87,4%
   Waterplane Area: 4 628 Square feet or 430 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 57%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 200 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,90
      - Longitudinal: 2,69
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

          Misc weights:
-   3x18'' TT + reload – 6 t
-   2x18'' TT + reload – 4 t
-   Short range radio – 10 t

What is the goal with the above design?

Mainly the same as the previous: to compensate lack of large ships (cruisers) in the Spanish Navy. The other ones:

- defending shore and bases,
- colonial work,
- aviso tasks
- escort civilian ships
- perform raiding operations on the trade routes on the high seas and near the shore

Have changed a little bit a design of battleship

Acorazado El Rey Alfonso XII

El Rey Alfonso XII, Spain Battleship laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   9 312 t light; 10 028 t standard; 10 758 t normal; 11 342 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (381,23 ft / 377,30 ft) x 68,86 ft x (22,97 / 24,01 ft)
   (116,20 m / 115,00 m) x 20,99 m  x (7,00 / 7,32 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,71lbs / 376,35kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      12 - 6,50" / 165 mm 45,0 cal guns - 138,23lbs / 62,70kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      6 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 27,0 cal guns - 1,41lbs / 0,64kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5 257 lbs / 2 384 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,62" / 219 mm   247,97 ft / 75,58 m   8,86 ft / 2,70 m
   Ends:   2,56" / 65 mm   129,33 ft / 39,42 m   8,86 ft / 2,70 m
   Upper:   2,56" / 65 mm   253,25 ft / 77,19 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
     Main Belt covers 101% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,99" / 203 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   5,51" / 140 mm         -         5,51" / 140 mm
   4th:   1,97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2,17" / 55 mm
   Forecastle: 1,77" / 45 mm  Quarter deck: 1,77" / 45 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8,62" / 219 mm, Aft 2,56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12 447 ihp / 9 286 Kw = 18,15 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 314 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   527 - 686

Cost:
   £1,042 million / $4,167 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 939 tons, 8,7%
      - Guns: 939 tons, 8,7%
   Armour: 3 032 tons, 28,2%
      - Belts: 1 196 tons, 11,1%
      - Armament: 955 tons, 8,9%
      - Armour Deck: 763 tons, 7,1%
      - Conning Towers: 117 tons, 1,1%
   Machinery: 1 945 tons, 18,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 356 tons, 31,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 446 tons, 13,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 0,4%
      - Hull below water: 8 tons
      - Hull above water: 32 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 441 lbs / 5 189 Kg = 13,2 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
   Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 14,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,63

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,631 / 0,636
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,48 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,42 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3,28 ft / -1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m,  17,72 ft / 5,40 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  17,39 ft / 5,30 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Average freeboard:      17,32 ft / 5,28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121,1%
   Waterplane Area: 19 559 Square feet or 1 817 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 646 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,89
      - Longitudinal: 2,73
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

         Misc weights:
       -  4x18'' TT + reload - 8 t
       -  Long range radio - 25 t
       -  Equipment and supply - 7 t

Crucero III Fila Tajo class (former gunboat Type G-6 design)

C3 Tajo, Spain Crucero III fila laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   1 200 t light; 1 263 t standard; 1 395 t normal; 1 501 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,66 ft / 228,90 ft) x 31,17 ft x (12,07 / 12,81 ft)
   (70,00 m / 69,77 m) x 9,50 m  x (3,68 / 3,90 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5,51" / 140 mm 45,0 cal guns - 84,44lbs / 38,30kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,35kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 326 lbs / 148 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 984 ihp / 4 464 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 3 100nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 238 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   113 - 148

Cost:
   £0,156 million / $0,623 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 48 tons, 3,4%
      - Guns: 48 tons, 3,4%
   Armour: 12 tons, 0,8%
      - Armament: 12 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 706 tons, 50,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 398 tons, 28,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 196 tons, 14,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 36 tons, 2,6%
      - Hull above water: 11 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     643 lbs / 292 Kg = 7,7 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,55
   Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 9,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,567 / 0,575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,34 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,13 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,75 ft / 0,23 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Average freeboard:      12,57 ft / 3,83 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106,3%
   Waterplane Area: 5 059 Square feet or 470 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 68%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 225 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,87
      - Longitudinal: 3,70
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
         
        Misc weights:
       - 1 marine landing platoon (100 men with armament and ammo) - 25 tons
       - 2 marine landing gun on wheeled carriage (76мм with 100 ammo) - 1 tonn
       - short range radio - 10 tons

Spain have build 2 ships of Tajo class to the October 1904 and will lay down 2 more ships of the class in H1 1905. But summarising the experience, the initial design was improved a little bit. So next 4 3rd class cruisers will be build on improved design.

C3 Improved Tajo, Spain Crucero III fila laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 586 t standard; 1 738 t normal; 1 859 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,66 ft / 228,81 ft) x 31,36 ft x (14,76 / 15,59 ft)
   (70,00 m / 69,74 m) x 9,56 m  x (4,50 / 4,75 m)

Armament:
      6 - 5,51" / 140 mm 45,0 cal guns - 80,47lbs / 36,50kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 504 lbs / 229 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0,98" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0,59" / 15 mm  Quarter deck: 0,59" / 15 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1,97" / 50 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 896 ihp / 5 145 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 3 100nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 272 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   133 - 174

Cost:
   £0,195 million / $0,781 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 80 tons, 4,6%
      - Guns: 80 tons, 4,6%
   Armour: 111 tons, 6,4%
      - Armament: 20 tons, 1,1%
      - Armour Deck: 85 tons, 4,9%
      - Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0,4%
   Machinery: 841 tons, 48,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 432 tons, 24,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 238 tons, 13,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 36 tons, 2,1%
      - Hull above water: 11 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     705 lbs / 320 Kg = 8,4 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39
   Metacentric height 1,6 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 10,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 86 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,574 / 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,13 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,40 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,75 ft / 0,23 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Aft deck:   30,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Average freeboard:      12,62 ft / 3,85 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91,5%
   Waterplane Area: 5 122 Square feet or 476 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 68%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs/sq ft or 240 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,85
      - Longitudinal: 4,05
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

         Misc weights:
       - 1 marine landing platoon (100 men with armament and ammo) - 25 tons
       - 2 marine landing gun on wheeled carriage (76мм with 100 ammo) - 1 tonn
       - short range radio - 10 tons

I think our rule of thumb is 2 t per marine embarked for more than a day.  That'd require 200 t for your platoon.

It's an interesting vessel for colonial applications, but probably pretty crowded with all the big guns, troops, and boats.

Rules says: Troops:  1 t per four troops for short-ranged landing craft.  2 t per troop for long-term (> 1 day) embarkment. So, 100 men is 25 tons

Cruiser Tajo
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/mvkezn7ubp6b8dg/PC-Tajo-1905.png)

Cruiser Improved Tajo
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/a26bc9ma1fgtix6/PC-Improved-Tajo-1906.png)

Like Rock I think they would be very cramped ships with a Company of Marines embarked in addition to their crews (crew size is only 133-174, so another100 men on top of that is ALOT).  That said my biggest concern for them as cruisers is the low speed.

The first portion of the sited rule only covers embarkations of less then one day. If this is meant to house the number of men for over 24h, Rocky is correct in the weight needed.

I have wrote earlier, that this ships is necessary measure to strengthen the Spanish Navy. They have class of cruiser, but mostly they are fast gunboats, which can defend coastline, attack  light forces and deliver army men to short distances. For example, they are enough to protect shipping in Gibraltar, to serve in colonies and Islands and to to supplement the main force of the offensive, dropping off a landing party on an enemy shore.

there are no need to transport any forces at the warship to distances more then 24 hours. there are lot of merchant ships which can be used (as I understand from discussions).

In 1905 Spain will lay down new serie of destroyers TB-5 class. They will have strong artillery and mine armament and quite good trial speed - 29 knots. Spain plans to build 20 ships of this class in nearet 3 years.

dd-5, Spain DD-5 laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   500 t light; 520 t standard; 576 t normal; 620 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,67 ft / 229,23 ft) x 22,41 ft x (10,99 / 11,49 ft)
   (70,00 m / 69,87 m) x 6,83 m  x (3,35 / 3,50 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      Weight of broadside 135 lbs / 61 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9 189 ihp / 6 855 Kw = 26,30 kts
   Range 2 100nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 100 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   58 - 76

Cost:
   £0,071 million / $0,284 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 19 tons, 3,3%
      - Guns: 19 tons, 3,3%
   Machinery: 341 tons, 59,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 118 tons, 20,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 76 tons, 13,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 22 tons, 3,8%
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 12 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     99 lbs / 45 Kg = 2,8 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37
   Metacentric height 0,9 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 9,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,357 / 0,368
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -0,49 ft / -0,15 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   24,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  10,50 ft / 3,20 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  10,50 ft / 3,20 m,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m
      - Aft deck:   31,00%,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m
      - Average freeboard:      9,69 ft / 2,95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 202,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93,6%
   Waterplane Area: 3 078 Square feet or 286 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 95 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,43
      - Longitudinal: 1,99
      - Overall: 0,50
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

                     Misc weights:
4x1 18' TT+ 2 reloads to each – 12 tons
Short range radio – 10 tons

          Trial Speed: 29
          Bonus: 2.7

Quote- Cross-sectional: 0,43

:-[ In the rules => Cross-sectional: 0,5

From design guidelines
"
=> Hull Strength
Minimum 0.50 cross-sectional hull strength for ships built to Destroyer/TB tech; otherwise, composite hull strength of 1.00 is recommended.  Ships not meeting this criteria are at risk of moderator-inflicted incidents.
"

;)

oh, why? I have 0,50, will check it up

While you have .5 overall, you need .5 cross sectional. This can be found on the Performance tab.

I've redesign it, I understand the mistake

dd-5, Spain DD-5 laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   500 t light; 518 t standard; 572 t normal; 615 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,67 ft / 229,23 ft) x 20,44 ft x (9,42 / 9,92 ft)
   (70,00 m / 69,87 m) x 6,23 m  x (2,87 / 3,02 m)

Armament:
      3 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,84lbs / 15,35kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      Weight of broadside 102 lbs / 46 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8 774 ihp / 6 545 Kw = 25,80 kts
   Range 2 100nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 97 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   58 - 76

Cost:
   £0,069 million / $0,277 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 14 tons, 2,5%
      - Guns: 14 tons, 2,5%
   Machinery: 338 tons, 59,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 126 tons, 22,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 72 tons, 12,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 22 tons, 3,8%
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 12 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     107 lbs / 49 Kg = 3,0 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 0,7 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 10,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,454 / 0,463
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,22 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -0,49 ft / -0,15 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   24,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  10,50 ft / 3,20 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  10,50 ft / 3,20 m,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m
      - Aft deck:   31,00%,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m,  8,86 ft / 2,70 m
      - Average freeboard:      9,69 ft / 2,95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 200,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91,2%
   Waterplane Area: 2 999 Square feet or 279 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 97 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 2,02
      - Overall: 0,57
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   
          Misc weights:
4x1 18' TT+ 2 reloads to each – 12 tons
Short range radio – 10 tons

Trial Speed: 28.5
Bonus: 2.7

New serie of small destroyers will be laid down in 1905:

TB-5, Spain torpedo boat (light destroyer) laid down 1905 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   370 t light; 387 t standard; 424 t normal; 454 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (201,57 ft / 199,64 ft) x 18,64 ft x (8,69 / 9,13 ft)
   (61,44 m / 60,85 m) x 5,68 m  x (2,65 / 2,78 m)

Armament:
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,84lbs / 15,35kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1,06" / 27,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,61lbs / 0,27kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 70 lbs / 32 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 932 ihp / 5 171 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 1 400nm at 11,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 68 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   46 - 60

Cost:
   £0,052 million / $0,206 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 10 tons, 2,4%
      - Guns: 10 tons, 2,4%
   Machinery: 253 tons, 59,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 91 tons, 21,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 54 tons, 12,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 3,8%
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     73 lbs / 33 Kg = 2,1 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 0,6 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 10,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,459 / 0,468
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14,13 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,48 ft / 0,45 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   24,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  7,55 ft / 2,30 m,  7,55 ft / 2,30 m
      - Aft deck:   31,00%,  7,55 ft / 2,30 m,  7,55 ft / 2,30 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  7,55 ft / 2,30 m,  7,55 ft / 2,30 m
      - Average freeboard:      8,98 ft / 2,74 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 203,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74,7%
   Waterplane Area: 2 391 Square feet or 222 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 87 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 2,30
      - Overall: 0,58
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Trial Speed: 28.5
Bonus: 3.5


Misc weights:
3x1 18' TT + reloads – 6 tonns
Short range radio – 10 tonns

The passenger liner for  Real Compañía Naviera Espaniola

RCNE Cadiz, Spain Passenger liner laid down 1905 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   12 340 t light; 12 619 t standard; 13 940 t normal; 14 998 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (509,60 ft / 491,31 ft) x 65,29 ft x (25,39 / 26,97 ft)
   (155,33 m / 149,75 m) x 19,90 m  x (7,74 / 8,22 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18 707 ihp / 13 955 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 5 200nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 379 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   640 - 833

Cost:
   £0,841 million / $3,364 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 2 923 tons, 21,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 692 tons, 26,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 600 tons, 11,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 725 tons, 41,1%
      - Hull below water: 1 500 tons
      - Hull above water: 4 000 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 225 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13 289 lbs / 6 028 Kg = 123,0 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,599 / 0,607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  33,60 ft / 10,24 m,  29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  24,93 ft / 7,60 m,  24,93 ft / 7,60 m
      - Aft deck:   30,00%,  24,93 ft / 7,60 m,  24,93 ft / 7,60 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00%,  29,53 ft / 9,00 m,  33,60 ft / 10,24 m
      - Average freeboard:      27,50 ft / 8,38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173,9%
   Waterplane Area: 23 438 Square feet or 2 178 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 412 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,87
      - Longitudinal: 3,37
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily


        Misc weights:
        - 4200t - cabins for 850 passengers (60 1st class, 240 2nd class, 550 3rd class) or 2000 soldiers and officers (war time)
        - 1500 t - cargo
        - 25 t - long range radio

Does it need to be 20 knots?  Something of ~15 knots would still be pretty fast for a merchie, and would cost a lot less for the same capability.

I am with Rock 20 knots feels a tad excessive.

I disagree. It's a passenger liner so that speed should be acceptable. RMS Lusitania laid down OTL in 1904 had a 25 knot speed (although she was a lot bigger). I think range is more of an issue. With the 20 knot top speed, the 5200 nm range should probably be at 18 knots or so for fast Atlantic crossings. OTL in 1904 the westbound speed record was 23.15 knots and the eastbound record was 23.58 knots. Granted this ship will not be breaking those records, but still should have a decent speed for passengers crossing the seas and oceans (which is why I think an 18 knot cruising speed is better with the used range).

Yes, that's the passenger liner for transatlantic voyages. The speed is enough for that time, I belive spain liner will never get Blue Riband, but she should be no worser then her competitors. As for cruising speed - yes, that is good idea to rise the speed from 12 to 18 knots.

Spain transatlantic passenger ship

RCNE Cadiz, Spain Passenger liner laid down 1905 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   13 500 t light; 13 862 t standard; 18 093 t normal; 21 477 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (509,31 ft / 491,01 ft) x 65,62 ft x (25,33 / 29,61 ft)
   (155,24 m / 149,66 m) x 20,00 m  x (7,72 / 9,02 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23 116 ihp / 17 245 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 5 200nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7 615 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   779 - 1 014

Cost:
   £0,978 million / $3,913 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 3 612 tons, 20,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 163 tons, 23,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 592 tons, 25,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 725 tons, 31,6%
      - Hull below water: 1 500 tons
      - Hull above water: 4 000 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 225 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21 798 lbs / 9 888 Kg = 201,8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 13,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,776 / 0,788
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,48 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,16 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  33,60 ft / 10,24 m,  29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  24,93 ft / 7,60 m,  24,93 ft / 7,60 m
      - Aft deck:   30,00%,  24,93 ft / 7,60 m,  24,93 ft / 7,60 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00%,  29,53 ft / 9,00 m,  33,60 ft / 10,24 m
      - Average freeboard:      27,50 ft / 8,38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168,8%
   Waterplane Area: 27 687 Square feet or 2 572 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 422 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,89
      - Longitudinal: 2,91
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily


Misc weights:
        - 4200t - cabins for 850 passengers (60 1st class, 240 2nd class, 550 3rd class) or 2000 soldiers and officers (war time)
        - 1500 t - cargo
        - 25 t - long range radio

Another thing I just looked at is the number of passengers. I do not know what tonnages you used to get to those passenger numbers, but looking at my spreadsheet with data based on the springstyle notes, using the 1905 baseline values for the passengers with 1st class being 2x class passenger, you would only need 2718 tons for that amount of passengers. Juggling a bit with the numbers in my spreadsheet and using your class ratios gives me 93 1st class, 371 2nd class and 848 3rd class for a total of 1312 passengers.

... and if you want to break it down further...


Cabins 1st class
1-person: 14 cabins
2-person: 14 cabins
3-person: 17 cabins

Cabins 2nd class
1-person: 81 cabins
2-person: 9 cabins
3-person: 68 cabins

Cabins 3rd class
1-person: 94 cabins
2-person: 196 cabins
4-person: 64 cabins
6-person: 11 cabins
8-person: 5 cabins

(IIRC I based the cabin breakdown on Titanic's)

:)

I agree with you, the ship can take more passengers... I count them as 1 pass of 3 rd class is for 4 t of weight, 2nd class - x1,5 and 1st - x4

I'm afraid my transatlantic liner has grown a little )

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/3wpkwk3jym1h96q/RCNE%20Cadiz%201907.png)

RCNE Cadiz, Spain Passenger liner laid down 1905 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   17 418 t light; 17 848 t standard; 21 464 t normal; 24 357 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (528,09 ft / 510,07 ft) x 65,55 ft x (30,91 / 34,59 ft)
   (160,96 m / 155,47 m) x 19,98 m  x (9,42 / 10,54 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 35 848 ihp / 26 743 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 4 100nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6 510 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   886 - 1 152

Cost:
   £1,394 million / $5,575 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 5 601 tons, 26,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 367 tons, 20,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 046 tons, 18,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 7 450 tons, 34,7%
      - Hull below water: 1 500 tons
      - Hull above water: 4 425 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 1 525 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15 681 lbs / 7 113 Kg = 145,2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 15,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,727 / 0,737
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  30,97 ft / 9,44 m,  26,90 ft / 8,20 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  22,31 ft / 6,80 m,  22,31 ft / 6,80 m
      - Aft deck:   30,00%,  22,31 ft / 6,80 m,  22,31 ft / 6,80 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00%,  30,18 ft / 9,20 m,  30,97 ft / 9,44 m
      - Average freeboard:      25,21 ft / 7,68 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131,6%
   Waterplane Area: 27 448 Square feet or 2 550 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 90 lbs/sq ft or 441 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,90
      - Longitudinal: 2,39
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

        Misc weights (12850 GRT):
         - 5925t - cabins for 1950 passengers (150 1st class, 300 2nd class, 1500 3rd class) or 2962 soldiers and officers (war time)
        - 1500 t - cargo
        - 25 t - long range radio

QuoteI'm afraid my transatlantic liner has grown a little )

A sign that you are playing too much with the design. I kinda have the same problems at times. :)

The first Yamato design I made for Wesworld came in at 59,095 tons light. 2 1/2 years and many, many modifications later, it was finalized at 75,000 tons light. An increase of 15,000 tons.

About a month ago I started to mess around with a large carrier design for 1948 Wesworld that originally came in at 62,390 tons light after the first design (though I started out with the values of the previous CVA design so technically it started out as a 52,000 tons light design). Many, many modifications later it now comes in at 71,800 tons light. An increase of about 9,400 tons.

The passenger liner design I have planned here for China comes in at 18,256 tons light. Unlike Wesworld, here I am limited by the size of my docks, but I am happy with the way it is so I doubt it will get much bigger.

Oh, dock limitations save all of us here))  such liner should be more then 200 m long and would have more then 25000 tonnage. But to build quickly dock Type 3 is very expensive for  me))

QuoteOh, dock limitations save all of us here))

Only us poor nations. The US and UK have no problems with spending BPs and cash so slip/dock limitations is more of a bother to them.

Quotesuch liner should be more then 200 m long and would have more then 25000 tonnage.

I actually started by looking at the RMS Lusitania... until I realized that I would need a Type 4 Slip/Dock to build a liner like that, so I went for something much smaller that could be built by the Chinese yards. Will take a while before China can build a 200m long, 25,000 ton vessel

QuoteBut to build quickly dock Type 3 is very expensive for  me))

There really is no 'quickly'. In order to have a Type 3 dock, you need a Type 3 port so an upgrade of the existing Type 2 port means paying $15 and 1 BP, but the port construction/expansion limit is $6 per half year meaning it will take 3 HYs to expand the port. Once that is done, you need your Type 3 slip/dock which have the same construction/expansion limit as the ports meaning that it would take 3 HYs to build one (4 HYs if you go for a dock). The quickest way would be to expand Spain's existing Type 2 dock at Valencia but it is currently occupied.

So the quickest you can get a type 3 dock is 4 HYs at a cost of $20 and 2Bps... which is a fortune for poor nations.

I have started to modify my Type 0 slipways in Valencia... And it takes more then 3 halves for me. Because I need to build all of it: infrastructure, navy, merchant fleet, army and BP's.... I hope I'll do the gap till 1910s but not earlier.

So, I dont even think to modify everything higher Type 1 ))

Acorazado (battleship) El Rey Alfonso XII

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/tdoaph4zktex616/BB_ElReyAlfonsoXII1906fin.png)

Two ships of the class were laid down in 1904, but their construction had stopped. The design were remade and Spain is waiting first ship to enter the fleet in late 1907

BB-1907, Spain battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   10 266 t light; 10 779 t standard; 11 856 t normal; 12 718 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (393,70 ft / 389,60 ft) x 70,14 ft x (23,95 / 25,41 ft)
   (120,00 m / 118,75 m) x 21,38 m  x (7,30 / 7,75 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12,01" / 305 mm 45,0 cal guns - 873,07lbs / 396,02kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 6,46" / 164 mm 45,0 cal guns - 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck centre
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      6 - 6,46" / 164 mm 45,0 cal guns - 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      1 raised mount
      6 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4 914 lbs / 2 229 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,0" / 280 mm   272,31 ft / 83,00 m   9,38 ft / 2,86 m
   Ends:   3,94" / 100 mm     73,00 ft / 22,25 m   9,38 ft / 2,86 m
     44,29 ft / 13,50 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   2,36" / 60 mm   251,64 ft / 76,70 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 108% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,48" / 190 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      5,91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   4,92" / 125 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   4,92" / 125 mm   2,36" / 60 mm      3,94" / 100 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,77" / 45 mm
   Forecastle: 1,38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 1,38" / 35 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11,02" / 280 mm, Aft 1,97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 23 359 ihp / 17 426 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 939 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   567 - 738

Cost:
   £1,212 million / $4,848 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 058 tons, 8,9%
      - Guns: 1 058 tons, 8,9%
   Armour: 3 102 tons, 26,2%
      - Belts: 1 557 tons, 13,1%
      - Armament: 746 tons, 6,3%
      - Armour Deck: 653 tons, 5,5%
      - Conning Towers: 146 tons, 1,2%
   Machinery: 2 472 tons, 20,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 575 tons, 30,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 590 tons, 13,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 0,5%
      - Hull above water: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 432 lbs / 4 278 Kg = 10,9 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,634 / 0,641
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -1,20 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,82 ft / 0,25 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  18,54 ft / 5,65 m,  15,26 ft / 4,65 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  15,26 ft / 4,65 m,  14,60 ft / 4,45 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  14,60 ft / 4,45 m,  14,60 ft / 4,45 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  14,60 ft / 4,45 m,  15,26 ft / 4,65 m
      - Average freeboard:      15,14 ft / 4,62 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,2%
   Waterplane Area: 20 629 Square feet or 1 916 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 672 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 2,20
      - Overall: 1,01
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons:
    - long-range radio – 25 tons
          - 4 sub 18' torpedo + reloads 12 tons
   - flag facilities – 10 tons
          - admiral's suite – 3 tons
          - anti-torpedo net – 10 ton

Just a reminder but, you cannot change portions of the ship after they have been laid down.

If you've already put $/BP into the laid down ships you'll either have to finish them as designed previously or forfeit those resources.

I've asked you and snip about it several months ago. But you answer nothing.

I've laid down two ships in H1 1904, but they both get only 0,75 BP. Let we deside that those BPs forfeited and I started building from the zero.

I did not recall reading any such PM so I went back to search for it. You sent it back in March and we had answered you on other topics since then. I mentioned several times over these months that if we did not reply to something, you ought to resend it since it was probably lost in the bulk.

If the mods have a reason for not answering, we will say so. We will never purposefully not reply to a PM.

Okay, I understand.

But now I have to do nothing but start building BB's from the very beginning )

First ship serie for RCNE fleet:

bulk cargo merchant ship RCNE Labrador

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/t67l9brde9vbc8f/SS%20Labrador%201905.png)

RCNE Labrador, Spain Merchant laid down 1907 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   5 725 t light; 5 858 t standard; 6 676 t normal; 7 330 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,65 ft / 218,96 ft) x 60,37 ft x (19,69 / 21,48 ft)
   (70,00 m / 66,74 m) x 18,40 m  x (6,00 / 6,55 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8 978 ihp / 6 697 Kw = 16,25 kts
   Range 4 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 472 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   369 - 480

Cost:
   £0,397 million / $1,587 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 1 403 tons, 21,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 142 tons, 17,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 951 tons, 14,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 180 tons, 47,6%
      - Hull below water: 1 500 tons
      - Hull above water: 1 500 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 140 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5 465 lbs / 2 479 Kg = 50,6 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,64
   Metacentric height 5,3 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 11,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,898 / 0,903
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3,63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14,80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  24,11 ft / 7,35 m,  20,83 ft / 6,35 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m,  20,67 ft / 6,30 m
      - Average freeboard:      16,17 ft / 4,93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90,5%
   Waterplane Area: 12 722 Square feet or 1 182 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 320 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,86
      - Longitudinal: 3,90
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Miscellaneous weights: 3 180 tons:

Cargo – 3140 tons (1500 tons may be converted for transporting of 375 soldiers)
     Cargos: coal, packets, bulk cargo, armament
Long range radio – 25 tons
Flag facilities – 10 ton
Embarkation ladders and ramps – 4 tons

Almirante Okendo, Spain AC laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   11 251 t light; 11 945 t standard; 12 903 t normal; 13 669 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (440,09 ft / 435,99 ft) x 71,13 ft x (24,80 / 26,00 ft)
   (134,14 m / 132,89 m) x 21,68 m  x (7,56 / 7,92 m)

Armament:
      10 - 9,45" / 240 mm 50,0 cal guns - 440,92lbs / 200,00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      12 - 5,51" / 140 mm 50,0 cal guns - 88,63lbs / 40,20kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 - 4,13" / 105 mm 50,0 cal guns - 37,39lbs / 16,96kg shells, 230 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 5 890 lbs / 2 672 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,09" / 180 mm   352,03 ft / 107,30 m   10,30 ft / 3,14 m
   Ends:   2,36" / 60 mm     65,85 ft / 20,07 m   10,30 ft / 3,14 m
     18,11 ft / 5,52 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 124% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,51" / 140 mm   2,76" / 70 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   3,15" / 80 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1,97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 32 795 ihp / 24 465 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 6 400nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 723 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   604 - 786

Cost:
   £1,442 million / $5,768 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 395 tons, 10,8%
      - Guns: 1 395 tons, 10,8%
   Armour: 2 868 tons, 22,2%
      - Belts: 1 128 tons, 8,7%
      - Armament: 834 tons, 6,5%
      - Armour Deck: 821 tons, 6,4%
      - Conning Tower: 84 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 3 470 tons, 26,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 467 tons, 26,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 652 tons, 12,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,4%
      - Hull above water: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 631 lbs / 3 461 Kg = 18,1 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 3,5 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 15,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,587 / 0,593
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,88 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,82 ft / 0,25 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25,00%,  18,37 ft / 5,60 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Forward deck:   20,00%,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Aft deck:   27,00%,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Quarter deck:   28,00%,  10,50 ft / 3,20 m,  10,50 ft / 3,20 m
      - Average freeboard:      15,35 ft / 4,68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 127,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,6%
   Waterplane Area: 22 410 Square feet or 2 082 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 85%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 633 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,83
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

134m is short for this armament & speed

QuoteLength to Beam Ratio: 6,13 : 1

IMO, a little short, increase to 6.5 - 7

Quote(440,09 ft / 435,99 ft) x 71,13 ft x (24,80 / 26,00 ft)
   (134,14 m / 132,89 m) x 21,68 m  x (7,56 / 7,92 m)

Decrease to nearly 7