The older TB's of the Middle kingdom do have a small problem, and advantage. The torpedo weight isn't included.
Now, the MK aquired the Parsons turbine tech from the UKA (or can buy those turbines)
So the potential new class of TB's could be something like this.
QuoteDe class, middle kingdom torpedo boat laid down 1902 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
199 t light; 204 t standard; 216 t normal; 226 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
170,60 ft / 170,60 ft x 19,03 ft x 6,89 ft (normal load)
52,00 m / 52,00 m x 5,80 m x 2,10 m
Armament:
1 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns in single mounts, 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1902 Model
Quick firing gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1902 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships
Weight of broadside 15 lbs / 7 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 80
4 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 5.092 shp / 3.799 Kw = 25,50 kts
Range 1.500nm at 8,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 22 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
27 - 36
Cost:
£0,025 million / $0,099 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0,9%
Armour: 1 tons, 0,5%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 1 tons, 0,5%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 116 tons, 53,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 76 tons, 35,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 17 tons, 8,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 1,9%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
64 lbs / 29 Kg = 4,9 x 3,0 " / 75 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 0,5 ft / 0,2 m
Roll period: 11,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,57
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,338
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13,06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
- Forecastle (20%): 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
- Mid (50%): 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 7,87 ft / 2,40 m
- Stern: 7,87 ft / 2,40 m
- Average freeboard: 10,93 ft / 3,33 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181,4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 31,6%
Waterplane Area: 1.866 Square feet or 173 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 41%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 73 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,39
- Longitudinal: 6,77
- Overall: 0,52
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Torpedo's
1905 Advanced (+1): 5000@26, 2200@35, 100kg warhead, imp. wet heater, 1t
4 front mounted tubes.
Ahoj!
I have a nagging feeling that 4x508 is too much for such a small boat.
3x450 seems better ...
Borys
It sims even better with 6 14" torpedo's....
It isn't me who wants torpedo's.
Block co-efficient and cross-sectional hull strength will need some work...
This better Rocky?
QuoteDe , Enter Middle Kingdom Torpedo boat laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
300 t light; 310 t standard; 326 t normal; 339 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
213,25 ft / 213,25 ft x 21,33 ft x 5,25 ft (normal load)
65,00 m / 65,00 m x 6,50 m x 1,60 m
Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns , 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1902 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1906 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 73 lbs / 33 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 80
4 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5.811 shp / 4.335 Kw = 25,00 kts
Range 1.500nm at 8,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 29 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
37 - 49
Cost:
£0,040 million / $0,160 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 2,8%
Armour: 2 tons, 0,5%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 2 tons, 0,5%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 156 tons, 47,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 129 tons, 39,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 26 tons, 8,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 1,2%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
134 lbs / 61 Kg = 3,8 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
Metacentric height 0,7 ft / 0,2 m
Roll period: 10,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,35
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0,478
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14,60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 13,12 ft / 4,00 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
- Mid (50%): 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 9,81 ft / 2,99 m
- Stern: 9,81 ft / 2,99 m
- Average freeboard: 11,21 ft / 3,42 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72,6%
Waterplane Area: 2.971 Square feet or 276 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 49%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 97 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 3,88
- Overall: 0,61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
4 torpedo's in forward firing tubes
Cutting Edge (+3): 7000@26, 3000@35, 100kg warhead, imp. wet heater, 1t
It addresses the concerns in question.
QuoteArmament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (1x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1902 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mount
on centreline
Sure its right? A twin mount amidship?
made a mistake
modified the ship
Ahoj!
Quote from: maddox on March 28, 2007, 10:29:37 AM
It sims even better with 6 14" torpedo's....
It isn't me who wants torpedo's.
As we know from the author of the programme, SS is a simulator, and can be wrong, and does not work very well for small ships. Thus sims should be judged against RL examples. I do not know off 200 ton ships with 4 such large torpedos. There were boats in this size category with 3 18 inchers, but were bad boats.
I don't like the two 105mm gun either. Ship too small.
Borys
QuoteThus sims should be judged against RL examples. I do not know off 200 ton ships with 4 such large torpedos.
The US PT boats.
*Runs for cover*
:)
Not directly comparable.
Borys
I know that one cannot compare a 50 tons 1940s PT boat with a 200 ton 1900s torpedo boat, but I just had to say it. :D
Well my own Turbinias are pretty much 1900 50 ton PT boats. But China wouldnt know that as they are right now a "black" program (F-117 style).
1900 PT-boats?!? That's quite a lot!
... (Oh, wait! You mean the year 1900) ;D
But do you guys think I can use these boaties ? Because I need to replace some 50-ish rather dated TB's...
I'm more interested in seeing the rest of the fleet. The "Green" Fleet. :o
QuoteBecause I need to replace some 50-ish rather dated TB's...
Dated? Guess I won't mention that 1853 ship that is still around (though "Discarded from pennant list"). :)
QuoteI'm more interested in seeing the rest of the fleet. The "Green" Fleet.
For some reason I don't think you want to know what that fleet looks like...
The Middle Kingdoms Fleet does not worry the Riddermark. Rohan has always hoped to keep the respect of the Middle Kingdom for being a nation even older then that of the Dragon Throne.
The Swiss on the other hand...would probably like to see what they will have to be designing against in the near future.
"I tell you we need more destroyers!"
QuoteBut do you guys think I can use these boaties ? Because I need to replace some 50-ish rather dated TB's...
Phoenix, they are slower than my own and have less guns and really short range, of course you can use them. I certainly wont complain if you build them. ;D