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Main Archive => NLogi => New Ships => Topic started by: Darman on July 29, 2013, 11:11:20 PM

Title: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on July 29, 2013, 11:11:20 PM
Euphrates, The Netherlands Troopship laid down 1870

Displacement:
   5,896 t light; 6,034 t standard; 6,850 t normal; 7,502 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (390.00 ft / 390.00 ft) x 49.10 ft x (23.00 / 24.77 ft)
   (118.87 m / 118.87 m) x 14.97 m  x (7.01 / 7.55 m)

Armament:
      3 - 2.13" / 54.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 4.05lbs / 1.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 12 lbs / 6 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 4,139 ihp / 3,088 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,468 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   376 - 489

Cost:
   £0.349 million / $1.396 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,014 tons, 14.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,480 tons, 36.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 954 tons, 13.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,400 tons, 35.0 %
      - Hull below water: 1,400 tons
      - Hull above water: 1,000 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,287 lbs / 2,852 Kg = 1,869.2 x 2.1 " / 54 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.544 / 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 29 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,880 Square feet or 1,197 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 471 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weight
2,400 tons for 1,200 troops
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on July 30, 2013, 11:20:48 AM
Appears to be a steamer only, no sail capability.  She'll have to stop along the way to recoal on voyages to the Cape Colony or to Ceylon or the DEI.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on July 30, 2013, 11:55:09 AM
Quote from: KWorld on July 30, 2013, 11:20:48 AM
Appears to be a steamer only, no sail capability.  She'll have to stop along the way to recoal on voyages to the Cape Colony or to Ceylon or the DEI.
True, I forgot that bit.  I'll have to re-do the design a little.  Add in some extra weight.  I'm trying to replicate as exactly as possible the original.  Obviously not possible. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Walter on July 30, 2013, 12:43:21 PM
I thought the DEI didn't exist here...

If you are trying to replicate HMS Euphrates as exactly as possible, I would think that she's too long. Wiki indicates that the length overall is 360 feet and I would assume that that length includes the Bowsprit on the ship and the overhang of the stern. Below my attempt. Not quite there, but I would think that it looks reasonable for the post 1873 11 knot Euphrates.

Euphrates, The Netherlands Troopship laid down 1870

Displacement:
   5,923 t light; 6,061 t standard; 6,850 t normal; 7,481 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (365.00 ft / 345.00 ft) x 49.50 ft x (22.50 / 24.26 ft)
   (111.25 m / 105.16 m) x 15.09 m  x (6.86 / 7.39 m)

Armament:
      3 - 2.13" / 54.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.99lbs / 1.81kg shells, 150 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 12 lbs / 5 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,833 ihp / 1,368 Kw = 11.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,420 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   376 - 489

Cost:
   £0.271 million / $1.084 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.0%
      - Guns: 2 tons, 0.0%
   Machinery: 449 tons, 6.6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,247 tons, 32.8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 927 tons, 13.5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 3,225 tons, 47.1%
      - Hull below water: 1,400 tons
      - Hull above water: 1,000 tons
      - Above deck: 825 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,529 lbs / 3,869 Kg = 2,536.0 x 2.1 " / 54 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.624 / 0.632
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.97 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 25 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00%,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00%,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00%,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00%,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.1%
   Waterplane Area: 12,542 Square feet or 1,165 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 166%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 463 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.87
      - Longitudinal: 3.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Sailing speed 14 knots
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on July 30, 2013, 01:02:06 PM
Quote from: Walter on July 30, 2013, 12:43:21 PM
I thought the DEI didn't exist here...

Some countries will have colonial holdings to start with.  The Dutch, in particular, with their small home population, NEED some colonies to have a prayer of keeping up with the neighbors.  Don't worry, there's plenty of territory to plant the flag on, even without having to kick some other non-natives out first to do it.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on September 23, 2013, 11:39:59 AM
Enrica, Netherlands Commerce Raider laid down 1870
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   1,700 t light; 1,779 t standard; 1,929 t normal; 2,049 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (220.00 ft / 220.00 ft) x 32.00 ft x (18.00 / 18.90 ft)
   (67.06 m / 67.06 m) x 9.75 m  x (5.49 / 5.76 m)

Armament:
      6 - 6.50" / 165 mm 18.0 cal guns - 102.48lbs / 46.49kg shells, 80 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 144.71lbs / 65.64kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 904 lbs / 410 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   143.00 ft / 43.59 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   143.00 ft / 43.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,630 ihp / 1,216 Kw = 13.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 271 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   145 - 189

Cost:
   £0.141 million / $0.562 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 74 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 208 tons, 10.8 %
      - Belts: 208 tons, 10.8 %
   Machinery: 399 tons, 20.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 607 tons, 31.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 229 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 411 tons, 21.3 %
      - Hull below water: 150 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 211 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,203 lbs / 545 Kg = 12.5 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.69

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.533 / 0.539
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.08 ft / 2.77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,675 Square feet or 434 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 372 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 3.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Half of natural speed (10 knots) is 7.4 knots for 5% of normal displacement, plus 5.6% of normal displacement to bring sailing speed up to 13 knots under sail, which totals 10.6% of normal displacement is allocated to sails and rigging.
50t in hull above waterline for 25 extra crew/prisoners. 
125t in hull below waterline for extended endurance
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Jefgte on September 23, 2013, 04:08:18 PM
Quote2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 144.71lbs / 65.64kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model

Your siderurgy is at the top of the top.

Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on September 23, 2013, 10:17:54 PM
Quote from: Jefgte on September 23, 2013, 04:08:18 PM
Quote2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 144.71lbs / 65.64kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model

Your siderurgy is at the top of the top.

Jef  ;)

My what?  I do need to change that to muzzleloading 20 cal guns though....
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on September 23, 2013, 10:18:42 PM
Enrica, Netherlands Commerce Raider laid down 1870
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   1,701 t light; 1,779 t standard; 1,929 t normal; 2,049 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (220.00 ft / 220.00 ft) x 32.00 ft x (18.00 / 18.90 ft)
   (67.06 m / 67.06 m) x 9.75 m  x (5.49 / 5.76 m)

Armament:
      6 - 6.50" / 165 mm 18.0 cal guns - 102.48lbs / 46.49kg shells, 80 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 20.0 cal guns - 128.63lbs / 58.35kg shells, 80 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 872 lbs / 396 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   143.00 ft / 43.59 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   143.00 ft / 43.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,630 ihp / 1,216 Kw = 13.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 271 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   145 - 189

Cost:
   £0.132 million / $0.530 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 48 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 208 tons, 10.8 %
      - Belts: 208 tons, 10.8 %
   Machinery: 399 tons, 20.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 635 tons, 32.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 228 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 411 tons, 21.3 %
      - Hull below water: 150 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 211 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,251 lbs / 568 Kg = 13.0 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.69

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.533 / 0.539
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.08 ft / 2.77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,675 Square feet or 434 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 378 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 3.10
      - Overall: 1.03
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Half of natural speed (10 knots) is 7.4 knots for 5% of normal displacement, plus 5.6% of normal displacement to bring sailing speed up to 13 knots under sail, which totals 10.6% of normal displacement is allocated to sails and rigging.
50t in hull above waterline for 25 extra crew/prisoners. 
125t in hull below waterline for extended endurance
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on September 26, 2013, 07:09:53 PM
Hopefully my last edit of this sort for this vessel. 
QuoteEnrica, Netherlands Commerce Raider laid down 1870
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   1,700 t light; 1,778 t standard; 1,928 t normal; 2,048 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (220.00 ft / 220.00 ft) x 32.00 ft x (18.00 / 18.90 ft)
   (67.06 m / 67.06 m) x 9.75 m  x (5.49 / 5.76 m)

Armament:
      6 - 6.50" / 165 mm 18.0 cal guns - 102.48lbs / 46.49kg shells, 80 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 20.0 cal guns - 128.63lbs / 58.35kg shells, 80 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 872 lbs / 396 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   143.00 ft / 43.59 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   143.00 ft / 43.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,629 ihp / 1,215 Kw = 13.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 270 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   145 - 189

Cost:
   £0.132 million / $0.530 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 48 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 208 tons, 10.8 %
      - Belts: 208 tons, 10.8 %
   Machinery: 399 tons, 20.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 614 tons, 31.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 228 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 431 tons, 22.4 %
      - Hull below water: 170 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 211 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,224 lbs / 555 Kg = 12.7 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.70

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.533 / 0.539
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.08 ft / 2.77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,673 Square feet or 434 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 367 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Half of natural speed (10 knots) is 7.4 knots for 5% of normal displacement, plus 5.6% of normal displacement to bring sailing speed up to 13 knots under sail, which totals 10.6% of normal displacement is allocated to sails and rigging.
50t in hull above waterline for 25 extra crew/prisoners. 
170t in hull below waterline for extended endurance
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on September 27, 2013, 03:20:32 AM
> Half of natural speed (10 knots) is 7.4 knots for 5% of normal displacement

The ship's natural speed is actually 14.8 knots, so all the calculations are right, just the text is wrong.

Very short (vertically) and thin main belt, with a thicker upper belt.  Crew will be fairly well protected, hull a little less so.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on September 27, 2013, 07:10:57 AM
I wanted the same standard of protection from main belt to upper belt but I didn't want too much armor below the waterline.  So main belt got shortened. 

Are we being allowed to set trim?  I forget. 
QuoteEnrica, Netherlands Commerce Raider laid down 1870
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   1,700 t light; 1,778 t standard; 1,928 t normal; 2,048 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (220.00 ft / 220.00 ft) x 32.00 ft x (18.00 / 18.90 ft)
   (67.06 m / 67.06 m) x 9.75 m  x (5.49 / 5.76 m)

Armament:
      6 - 6.50" / 165 mm 18.0 cal guns - 102.48lbs / 46.49kg shells, 80 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 20.0 cal guns - 128.63lbs / 58.35kg shells, 80 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 872 lbs / 396 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   143.00 ft / 43.59 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   143.00 ft / 43.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,629 ihp / 1,215 Kw = 13.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 270 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   145 - 189

Cost:
   £0.132 million / $0.530 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 48 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 239 tons, 12.4 %
      - Belts: 239 tons, 12.4 %
   Machinery: 399 tons, 20.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 618 tons, 32.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 228 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 396 tons, 20.5 %
      - Hull below water: 135 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 211 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,259 lbs / 571 Kg = 13.1 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.69

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.533 / 0.539
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.08 ft / 2.77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,673 Square feet or 434 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 369 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 3.02
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Half of natural speed (14.8 knots) is 7.4 knots for 5% of normal displacement, plus 5.6% of normal displacement to bring sailing speed up to 13 knots under sail, which totals 10.6% of normal displacement is allocated to sails and rigging.
50t in hull above waterline for 25 extra crew/prisoners. 
170t in hull below waterline for extended endurance
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Walter on September 27, 2013, 07:12:54 AM
QuoteAre we being allowed to set trim?  I forget.
Don't know of anything that does not allow you to set trim other than the springstyle notes regarding submarines so I would trim the ship a bit more so that the stability is a bit higher.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on September 27, 2013, 07:15:30 AM
Quote from: Walter on September 27, 2013, 07:12:54 AM
QuoteAre we being allowed to set trim?  I forget.
Don't know of anything that does not allow you to set trim other than the springstyle notes regarding submarines so I would trim the ship a bit more so that the stability is a bit higher.

I've been setting trim.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on October 29, 2013, 03:07:38 PM
Koning der Nederlanden, The Netherlands Battleship laid down 1870
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   4,977 t light; 5,271 t standard; 5,500 t normal; 5,683 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (268.00 ft / 268.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (19.00 / 19.55 ft)
   (81.69 m / 81.69 m) x 15.24 m  x (5.79 / 5.96 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 15.0 cal guns - 493.19lbs / 223.71kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 44.49lbs / 20.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      4 raised mounts
      30 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 2,184 lbs / 991 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   174.20 ft / 53.10 m   8.49 ft / 2.59 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm     93.78 ft / 28.58 m   8.49 ft / 2.59 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   174.20 ft / 53.10 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.00" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,547 ihp / 1,900 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 411 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   319 - 415

Cost:
   £0.325 million / $1.299 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 174 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 1,821 tons, 33.1 %
      - Belts: 1,114 tons, 20.3 %
      - Armament: 491 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 216 tons, 3.9 %
   Machinery: 624 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,014 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 523 tons, 9.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 344 tons, 6.3 %
      - Above deck: 344 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,797 lbs / 3,083 Kg = 14.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.70

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.756 / 0.759
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.36 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.55 ft / 4.74 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.79 ft / 3.59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 51.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,589 Square feet or 1,077 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 629 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Sailing Rig: Natural speed is 17.5kts, paying 5% of the ships normal displacement (300t) gives a speed under sail of 8.75 kts, plus an additional 1.25% of normal displacement to give an additional 1.25kts of speed under sail for a total of 10kts at an expense of 6.25% of normal displacement. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Jefgte on October 29, 2013, 04:44:04 PM
I note the high quantity of 37mm guns...
But, I don't undesrtand why 30 guns ?

Jef ;)
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Walter on October 29, 2013, 04:52:59 PM
Not only that, below it, it says:
Quote6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
... so 30 guns in six single mounts...
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on October 29, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Walter on October 29, 2013, 04:52:59 PM
Not only that, below it, it says:
Quote6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
... so 30 guns in six single mounts...
sorry, it supposed to be revolver guns, so I guess its 5 barrels per mount.  I really wasn't sure how to put that in. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on October 29, 2013, 10:08:52 PM
Koning der Nederlanden, The Netherlands Battleship laid down 1870
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   4,996 t light; 5,291 t standard; 5,520 t normal; 5,703 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (268.00 ft / 268.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (19.00 / 19.55 ft)
   (81.69 m / 81.69 m) x 15.24 m  x (5.79 / 5.96 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 15.0 cal guns - 493.19lbs / 223.71kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 44.49lbs / 20.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      4 raised mounts
      30 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x 5-gun mounts on sides amidships
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,184 lbs / 991 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   174.20 ft / 53.10 m   8.49 ft / 2.59 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm     93.78 ft / 28.58 m   8.49 ft / 2.59 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   174.20 ft / 53.10 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.00" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,554 ihp / 1,905 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 412 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   319 - 416

Cost:
   £0.326 million / $1.303 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 174 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 1,824 tons, 33.1 %
      - Belts: 1,115 tons, 20.2 %
      - Armament: 493 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 217 tons, 3.9 %
   Machinery: 626 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,027 tons, 36.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 524 tons, 9.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 345 tons, 6.3 %
      - Above deck: 345 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,774 lbs / 3,073 Kg = 14.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.69

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.759 / 0.762
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.36 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.55 ft / 4.74 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.79 ft / 3.59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 51.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,616 Square feet or 1,079 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 632 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Sailing Rig: Natural speed is 17.5kts, paying 5% of the ships normal displacement (300t) gives a speed under sail of 8.75 kts, plus an additional 1.25% of normal displacement to give an additional 1.25kts of speed under sail for a total of 10kts at an expense of 6.25% of normal displacement. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on October 31, 2013, 02:44:50 AM
Isn't it too early for mount & hoist mounts, especially armored ones?

Interesting.  She's very fast under sail (assuming the wind's there to drive it), with unarmored guns.  So, kind of a clipperized HMS Monarch?
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Jefgte on October 31, 2013, 06:41:57 AM
QuoteIsn't it too early for mount & hoist mounts...

SS calculate them for 1870 (?)

Heavy & semi heavy shells are not hand mooving.

Our ancestors were not stupid, they move 150kg shells with chains & hoist, I think.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on October 31, 2013, 06:56:28 AM
SS told me for a barbette mounted battery i could only have barbette armor, so thats what I have. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on October 31, 2013, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: Jefgte on October 31, 2013, 06:41:57 AM
QuoteIsn't it too early for mount & hoist mounts...

SS calculate them for 1870 (?)

Heavy & semi heavy shells are not hand mooving.

Our ancestors were not stupid, they move 150kg shells with chains & hoist, I think.

At this point in time, though, the armored mount and hoist mount isn't really available.  If you want traversing armored mounts, I think you're pretty much limited to Coles/Ericsson turrets at this time period.  Also, period hoists are likely to be a serious crimp in the rate of fire.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on October 31, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
I can un-armor the hoist if that is your concern?  Or turn them into barbettes?  The information I had was unclear as to the secondary battery's dispositions. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on November 01, 2013, 03:57:28 AM
Quote from: Darman on October 31, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
I can un-armor the hoist if that is your concern?  Or turn them into barbettes?  The information I had was unclear as to the secondary battery's dispositions.

Looking at this picture: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/ZM_ramtorenschip_Koning_der_Nederlanden.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ZM_ramtorenschip_Koning_der_Nederlanden.jpg&h=537&w=800&sz=185&tbnid=J7opwM0EgHJCDM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=134&zoom=1&usg=__jsPLJL8cBAKQjG6-dtUY8n8pBEg=&docid=nAjG8YTfyKEXhM&sa=X&ei=NXtzUszEDeaY2QWUnYDIBA&ved=0CFUQ9QEwBQ ,
and the ones here: http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=103006772 ,

it's pretty clear the original was a turret ship with the main battery in Coles/Ericsson type turrets.  I can't see the secondary battery anywhere, so I'd guess they were deck or broadside mounts, maybe added later or removed by the time of the model and the picture.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Walter on November 01, 2013, 08:15:20 AM
The page here
http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/284135x53056/8330/a0.htm
indicates that the ship was built with them (and they should be 16 cal and not 45).

According to wiki, the Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden also have four 120mm guns:
QuoteTwo 120-millimeter (4.7 in) Krupp breech-loading guns were fitted in the forecastle and another pair in the poop as chase guns.
It is quite possible that the guns on the Koning der Nederlanden are fore and aft as well. However, I don't think they are deck and hoist mounts and they don't have armor either.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on November 01, 2013, 10:47:54 AM
Ah ha.... if they were chase guns, in the forecastle and the poop, they'd probably be best simmed as end-mounted below-deck broadside guns, with a note saying they're actually bow and stern chasers versus broadside guns.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Walter on November 01, 2013, 05:49:23 PM
That is the case with the Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden. Wiki says that on the Koning der Nederlanden they're on the upper deck, but my guess is that they would still be bow and stern chasers. I would sim them as regular deck mounts.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 08, 2013, 04:16:08 PM
HNLMS Java, Netherlands Sloop laid down 1870

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,041 t standard; 1,205 t normal; 1,336 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (205.00 ft / 205.00 ft) x 31.00 ft x (13.00 / 14.11 ft)
   (62.48 m / 62.48 m) x 9.45 m  x (3.96 / 4.30 m)

Armament:
      1 - 5.90" / 150 mm 25.0 cal gun - 78.04lbs / 35.40kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
      1 raised mount
      4 - 4.70" / 119 mm 18.0 cal guns - 38.74lbs / 17.57kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      Weight of broadside 233 lbs / 106 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   133.25 ft / 40.61 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,232 ihp / 919 Kw = 13.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 295 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   101 - 132

Cost:
   £0.082 million / $0.329 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 101 tons, 8.4 %
      - Belts: 92 tons, 7.6 %
      - Armament: 9 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 302 tons, 25.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 448 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 205 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 133 tons, 11.0 %
      - Above deck: 133 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,034 lbs / 469 Kg = 14.4 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.511 / 0.521
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  13.60 ft / 4.15 m,  10.02 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.02 ft / 3.05 m,  10.02 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.02 ft / 3.05 m,  10.02 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.02 ft / 3.05 m,  10.02 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.31 ft / 3.14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,117 Square feet or 382 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 311 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.89
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Sailing Rig: Natural speed is 14kts, paying 5% of the ships normal displacement gives a speed under sail of 7kts, plus an additional 6% of normal displacement to give an additional 6kts of speed under sail for a total of 13kts at an expense of 11% of normal displacement. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 08, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Koning der Nederlanden, The Netherlands Battleship laid down 1870
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   4,580 t light; 4,810 t standard; 5,025 t normal; 5,197 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (268.00 ft / 268.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (19.00 / 19.55 ft)
   (81.69 m / 81.69 m) x 15.24 m  x (5.79 / 5.96 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 15.0 cal guns - 493.19lbs / 223.71kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 44.49lbs / 20.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
      30 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x 5-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,184 lbs / 991 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   174.20 ft / 53.10 m   8.49 ft / 2.59 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm     93.78 ft / 28.58 m   8.49 ft / 2.59 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   174.20 ft / 53.10 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   6.00" / 152 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.00" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,377 ihp / 1,773 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 387 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   297 - 387

Cost:
   £0.313 million / $1.253 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 150 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 1,544 tons, 30.7 %
      - Belts: 1,105 tons, 22.0 %
      - Armament: 236 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 204 tons, 4.1 %
   Machinery: 583 tons, 11.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,973 tons, 39.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 445 tons, 8.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 6.6 %
      - Above deck: 330 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,101 lbs / 2,767 Kg = 13.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 86 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.691 / 0.694
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.36 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.55 ft / 4.74 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m,  11.46 ft / 3.49 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.79 ft / 3.59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 53.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,934 Square feet or 1,016 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 634 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Sailing Rig: Natural speed is 17.5kts, paying 5% of the ships normal displacement (300t) gives a speed under sail of 8.75 kts, plus an additional 1.25% of normal displacement to give an additional 1.25kts of speed under sail for a total of 10kts at an expense of 6.25% of normal displacement. 
120mm broadside mounts arte bow and stern chasers. 
37mm guns are 5-barrelled 1pdrs (gatling-type)
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 08, 2013, 04:48:14 PM
and for coast defense I present.... a RAM! 


HNLMS Buffel, Netherlands Ironclad Ram laid down 1870
Central citadel ship
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   1,900 t light; 1,956 t standard; 2,051 t normal; 2,127 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (235.00 ft / 225.00 ft) x 32.00 ft x (15.00 / 15.46 ft)
   (71.63 m / 68.58 m) x 9.75 m  x (4.57 / 4.71 m)

Armament:
      2 - 9.00" / 229 mm 15.0 cal guns - 270.13lbs / 122.53kg shells, 50 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 540 lbs / 245 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
   Ends:   7.00" / 178 mm     69.98 ft / 21.33 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     25.02 ft / 7.63 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   6.40 ft / 1.95 m
     Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   5.00" / 127 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,867 ihp / 1,392 Kw = 13.00 kts
   Range 2,150nm at 6.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 171 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   152 - 198

Cost:
   £0.147 million / $0.590 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 40 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 607 tons, 29.6 %
      - Belts: 534 tons, 26.0 %
      - Armament: 73 tons, 3.5 %
   Machinery: 457 tons, 22.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 796 tons, 38.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 151 tons, 7.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,676 lbs / 760 Kg = 6.6 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.665 / 0.669
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  9.90 ft / 3.02 m,  9.90 ft / 3.02 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  9.90 ft / 3.02 m,  9.90 ft / 3.02 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  9.90 ft / 3.02 m,  9.90 ft / 3.02 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.90 ft / 3.02 m,  9.90 ft / 3.02 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.90 ft / 3.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,736 Square feet or 533 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 431 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.28
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on November 08, 2013, 06:32:32 PM
More speed would be good, because a ram can never have too much speed.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 08, 2013, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: KWorld on November 08, 2013, 06:32:32 PM
More speed would be good, because a ram can never have too much speed.
13kts is its historic speed.  I'm wavering between speed, armor, and cost. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 08, 2013, 09:19:33 PM
Another go at Euphrates....

Euphrates, Netherlands Troopship laid down 1870
Corvette (Unarmoured)

Displacement:
   6,600 t light; 6,747 t standard; 7,387 t normal; 7,899 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (375.00 ft / 365.00 ft) x 49.50 ft x (22.50 / 23.83 ft)
   (114.30 m / 111.25 m) x 15.09 m  x (6.86 / 7.26 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,919 ihp / 1,431 Kw = 11.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,151 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   397 - 517

Cost:
   £0.297 million / $1.187 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 470 tons, 6.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,426 tons, 32.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 787 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3,703 tons, 50.1 %
      - Hull below water: 1,800 tons
      - Hull above water: 1,200 tons
      - Above deck: 703 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,118 lbs / 3,682 Kg = 107.4 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.636 / 0.642
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.37 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 23 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,443 Square feet or 1,249 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 159 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 469 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.21
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Half of natural speed (19 knots) is 9.5kts for 5% of normal displacement, plus 4.5% of normal displacement to bring sailing speed up to 13 knots under sail, which totals 9.5% of normal displacement is allocated to sails and rigging.
3,000 tons miscellaneous weight is for transporting 1,500 troops (1 regiment)
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 08, 2013, 10:03:48 PM
HNLSM Enrica, Netherlands Commerce Raider laid down 1870
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   1,720 t light; 1,798 t standard; 1,950 t normal; 2,072 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (220.00 ft / 220.00 ft) x 32.00 ft x (18.00 / 18.88 ft)
   (67.06 m / 67.06 m) x 9.75 m  x (5.49 / 5.75 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 18.0 cal guns - 128.00lbs / 58.06kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      6 - 5.90" / 150 mm 15.0 cal guns - 76.10lbs / 34.52kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 713 lbs / 323 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.75" / 44 mm   154.00 ft / 46.94 m   6.79 ft / 2.07 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   2.00" / 51 mm   154.00 ft / 46.94 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,169 ihp / 1,618 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 2,500nm at 7.25 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 273 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   146 - 190

Cost:
   £0.147 million / $0.586 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 36 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 182 tons, 9.3 %
      - Belts: 182 tons, 9.3 %
   Machinery: 532 tons, 27.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 614 tons, 31.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 230 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 357 tons, 18.3 %
      - Hull below water: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 207 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,044 lbs / 474 Kg = 8.7 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.70

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.539 / 0.546
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   17.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarter deck:   13.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.07 ft / 2.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 57.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,861 Square feet or 452 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 358 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Half of natural speed (14.8 knots) is 7.4 knots for 5% of normal displacement, plus 5.6% of normal displacement to bring sailing speed up to 13 knots under sail, which totals 10.6% of normal displacement is allocated to sails and rigging.
50t in hull above waterline for 25 extra crew/prisoners.
100t in hull below waterline for extended endurance
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 21, 2013, 09:49:41 PM
This is an emergency design for a commerce raider for the Netherlands.  She's pretty fast under sail (up to 13 knots) but only up to 10kt under steam. 
Quote
HLNS Argus, Netherlands Commerce Raider laid down 1870

Displacement:
   150 t light; 156 t standard; 176 t normal; 192 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (85.00 ft / 85.00 ft) x 26.00 ft x (6.00 / 6.40 ft)
   (25.91 m / 25.91 m) x 7.92 m  x (1.83 / 1.95 m)

Armament:
      15 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 1.19lbs / 0.54kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     1 x Quintuple mount on centreline, forward deck centre
     2 x Quintuple mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      Weight of broadside 18 lbs / 8 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 195 ihp / 145 Kw = 10.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 35 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   23 - 31

Cost:
   £0.013 million / $0.051 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 48 tons, 27.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 72 tons, 40.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 26 tons, 14.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 28 tons, 15.9 %
      - Above deck: 28 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     201 lbs / 91 Kg = 185.8 x 1.5 " / 37 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.62
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 9.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.67

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.465 / 0.474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 9.22 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  8.76 ft / 2.67 m,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.63 ft / 2.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,363 Square feet or 127 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 183 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.82
      - Longitudinal: 5.45
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Half of natural speed (9 knots) is 4.5 knots for 5% of normal displacement, plus 4.5% of normal displacement to bring sailing speed up to 10 knots under sail, which totals 9.5% of normal displacement, plus another 6% of normal displacement to add 3 knots to total 13 knots of speed.  Total is now 15.5% normal displacement. 

My big question is, do you think she's too small for her role? 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on November 22, 2013, 05:40:49 AM
Well, she's small, certainly, but ships of this size were used as privateers during the War of 1812.  Armament is 5 Hotchkiss 37mms, it looks like: no real threat to the hull of a ship, but would certainly threaten the decks (if you can get a line of fire to them) and rigging.  The question would be, to my mind, can you overawe the target ship into striking their colors before a fight, given that at least for a bit this world's merchantment are likely to be armed more like the ships of the 1800-1820 period instead of the historical 1870s (I expect that West Point Foundry has found a ready market for 20 and 30 pound Parrott rifles post-1865 on naval mountings).
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 22, 2013, 07:58:44 PM
Here, 3" guns rather than 37mm revolvers. 

HLNS Argus, Netherlands Commerce Raider laid down 1870

Displacement:
   150 t light; 155 t standard; 175 t normal; 191 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (85.00 ft / 85.00 ft) x 26.00 ft x (6.00 / 6.40 ft)
   (25.91 m / 25.91 m) x 7.92 m  x (1.83 / 1.95 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 15.0 cal guns - 10.00lbs / 4.54kg shells, 200 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      Weight of broadside 20 lbs / 9 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 194 ihp / 145 Kw = 10.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 35 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   23 - 31

Cost:
   £0.012 million / $0.049 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 48 tons, 27.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 73 tons, 41.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 25 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 28 tons, 16.0 %
      - Above deck: 28 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     206 lbs / 94 Kg = 21.8 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.61
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.68

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.462 / 0.472
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 9.22 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  8.76 ft / 2.67 m,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m,  6.45 ft / 1.97 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.63 ft / 2.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,359 Square feet or 126 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 185 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.83
      - Longitudinal: 5.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Half of natural speed (9 knots) is 4.5 knots for 5% of normal displacement, plus 4.5% of normal displacement to bring sailing speed up to 10 knots under sail, which totals 9.5% of normal displacement, plus another 6% of normal displacement to add 3 knots to total 13 knots of speed.  Total is now 15.5% normal displacement. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Jefgte on November 23, 2013, 02:45:58 AM
IMO, too small for a raider or...
that's a North Sea raider.

Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on November 23, 2013, 04:54:28 AM
It is small, that's for sure, though like I said, ships of this size were used as privateers during the War of 1812 and the American Revolution.


Armament-wise, 2 3" guns isn't very impressive.  I told Logi some months back that I wasn't sure that 2 80-pounders were going to be enough to overawe merchants operating off China, so 2 10-pounders would be even more marginal.  Might work sometimes, of course, but not all the time.
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: Darman on November 23, 2013, 08:23:57 AM
True, if 80pdrs only might have a chance then 10pdrs have even less of a chance.  It also depends on how prevelent pirates are and if they are armed with full up naval weapons or just small arms and a few swivel gun type mounts, then swarm the decks of any merchant ships. 
Title: Re: Netherlands 1870 start-up
Post by: KWorld on November 23, 2013, 07:58:14 PM
I'd expect pirates to vary widely in armament, from nothing heavier than small arms and cutlasses to relatively modern naval armament.  The most likely heavy weapons are likely to be carronades and gunades, because they were common merchant-ship armement and can firea wide variety of shot types.  Regular smoothbore naval guns of up to 12 pounder class would also be likely, while some successful and organized pirates might have some smaller rifled guns (after all, they were commercially available).

This site has some interesting information on naval guns of the period, from the US Civil War viewpoint: http://markerhunter.wordpress.com/artillery/naval-cannons/