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Here is the first battleship for the Russian Navy. This is my first tumblehome design and the ship has extensive ammunition and fuel stores in keeping with Russian/French practice.

Tumblehome BB1, Russia Battleship laid down 1890

Displacement:
   11,680 t light; 12,583 t standard; 13,776 t normal; 14,729 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (378.00 ft / 370.00 ft) x 75.50 ft x (27.75 / 29.19 ft)
   (115.21 m / 112.78 m) x 23.01 m  x (8.46 / 8.90 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1890 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 720 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1890 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 900 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1890 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 3,800 lbs / 1,724 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,423 ihp / 10,760 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,146 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   635 - 826

Cost:
   £1.143 million / $4.572 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 852 tons, 6.2 %
      - Guns: 852 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 4,273 tons, 31.0 %
      - Belts: 2,026 tons, 14.7 %
      - Armament: 1,184 tons, 8.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 865 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 198 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 2,671 tons, 19.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,882 tons, 28.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,096 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0.0 %
      - Hull below water: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,992 lbs / 7,707 Kg = 19.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.84

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.740 / 0.752
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  28.00 ft / 8.53 m,  25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  25.00 ft / 7.62 m,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:      23.29 ft / 7.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,184 Square feet or 2,154 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 626 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.86
      - Longitudinal: 3.61
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

IDK about 6" guns but I seam to recall reading that baral life for a 12" gun was only like 90-100 shells, so wouldnt that be roughly double what it could safely fire (I know shooting a rifle with a shot out barrel is dangerous as hell), and 720 shells man... Just WOW, can you come up with any referance to support that absolutly Huge Number?

Quote from: Tanthalas on September 28, 2012, 08:11:00 PM
IDK about 6" guns but I seam to recall reading that baral life for a 12" gun was only like 90-100 shells, so wouldnt that be roughly double what it could safely fire (I know shooting a rifle with a shot out barrel is dangerous as hell), and 720 shells man... Just WOW, can you come up with any referance to support that absolutly Huge Number?

The French battleship Iéna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_I%C3%A9na) carried enough shells for its guns for three hours of nonstop firing.

Were to even begin

First, turn 0 begins 1895.
Second: WAY to much ammo on all of those guns. Way to much. Those are exeive amounts of secondary shells for a 1950's Anti Aircraft Cruiser with automatics. Try about 1/2 of what you have for all guns.
Third: The disposition of the battery is, shall we say, odd & leaves the deck cramped. What is the reasoning behind this?
Fourth: Conning Towers seem a bit thin to me. Maybe go to one thicker one?
Fith: Your belts are very short hight wise. This is only made worse by the tumblehome. Try making them taller.
Sixth: Barbettes are very thin as well. They should be within 1" of the main belt IMO.
Seventh: The 6" guns will need to be in casemates to comply with the rules
Eighth: Recoil is very high at .94
Ninth: The forward sheer seems a bit out of period to me for a BB. Have you tried a flush for'castle?
Tenth: Overall, aside from the speed, IMO my BBs of the same time would eat this gal for lunch.

Overall, I personally find this to be a very poor design, even without the rule violations that are present.

QuoteFirst, turn 0 begins 1895.

I thought we were allowed to and encouraged to construct ships prior to 1895.

QuoteSecond: WAY to much ammo on all of those guns. Way to much. Those are exeive amounts of secondary shells for a 1950's Anti Aircraft Cruiser with automatics. Try about 1/2 of what you have for all guns.

I was basing it off the Iéna, which had vast quantities of ammunition for its weapons.

QuoteThird: The disposition of the battery is, shall we say, odd & leaves the deck cramped. What is the reasoning behind this?

It's a modified Jauréguiberry (http://www.cityofart.net/bship/jaureguiberry.html%5B/url), except with the 10.8 inch guns replaced by 12 inch guns.

QuoteFourth: Conning Towers seem a bit thin to me. Maybe go to one thicker one?
Sixth: Barbettes are very thin as well. They should be within 1" of the main belt IMO.

Another player once told me that conning towers and barbettes don't need to have armor as thick as belts and other flat surfaces because their shape makes ricochets and glancing blows more likely.

QuoteFith: Your belts are very short hight wise. This is only made worse by the tumblehome. Try making them taller.

I forgot to account for the height reduction from the surface being angled, so I will revise for version 2.

QuoteSeventh: The 6" guns will need to be in casemates to comply with the rules

That would be my bad too, was copying the French design directly. I'll change them out.

QuoteEighth: Recoil is very high at .94

The weaponry on the real ship had restricted arcs on the guns to prevent blast damage, so that actually is rather accurate.

QuoteNinth: The forward sheer seems a bit out of period to me for a BB. Have you tried a flush for'castle?

The ship I was basing it does have a slight angle (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Jaur%C3%A9guiberry_right_elevation_diagrams_Brasseys_1897.jpg) on the forward part of the ship in some pictures. It is closer to being a flush decker however and I exaggerated it in my Springsharp.

I modified the design and while working on it I decided to branch it off into two separate designs. The first design lost a knot of speed, taking it down to 17 knots where most foreign battleships are. The second design has its hull shape changed and other alterations made for higher speeds, making it capable of 20 knots (giving it a three knot advantage over typical designs).

Tumblehome BB1v2D, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   10,460 t light; 10,926 t standard; 11,910 t normal; 12,698 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (378.00 ft / 370.00 ft) x 69.50 ft (Bulges 75.50 ft) x (27.75 / 29.30 ft)
   (115.21 m / 112.78 m) x 21.18 m (Bulges 23.01 m)  x (8.46 / 8.93 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,120 lbs / 1,869 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,081 ihp / 7,521 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,771 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   569 - 741

Cost:
   £0.948 million / $3.793 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 739 tons, 6.2 %
      - Guns: 739 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 4,393 tons, 36.9 %
      - Belts: 2,551 tons, 21.4 %
      - Armament: 911 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 662 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 270 tons, 2.3 %
   Machinery: 1,709 tons, 14.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,607 tons, 30.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,450 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,269 lbs / 7,833 Kg = 20.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.538 / 0.543
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,742 Square feet or 1,648 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 662 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.86
      - Longitudinal: 3.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Tumblehome BB1v3, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   12,000 t light; 12,500 t standard; 13,578 t normal; 14,441 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (408.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 70.00 ft (Bulges 76.00 ft) x (26.00 / 27.47 ft)
   (124.36 m / 121.92 m) x 21.34 m (Bulges 23.16 m)  x (7.92 / 8.37 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,120 lbs / 1,869 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   276.00 ft / 84.12 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   124.00 ft / 37.80 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,495 ihp / 15,289 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,941 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   628 - 817

Cost:
   £1.249 million / $4.997 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 739 tons, 5.4 %
      - Guns: 739 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 4,146 tons, 30.5 %
      - Belts: 2,480 tons, 18.3 %
      - Armament: 656 tons, 4.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 765 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 245 tons, 1.8 %
   Machinery: 3,474 tons, 25.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,631 tons, 26.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,578 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,898 lbs / 5,397 Kg = 13.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.601 / 0.605
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.26 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,503 Square feet or 1,905 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 626 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.20
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

I still feel the belts are rather short verticaly on both designs, but then again I have 15' high belts so YMMV. My thougths on which of the two is "better" are this. Russia needs a "standard" battleline moreso then our other player *cough*Tan*cough* who is hybridising his Armored Cruisers and Battleships. I understand the rational behind wanting to get both classes on one hull, but IMO Russia cannot get away with this due to who her likely enemies are. What I would do, is take hull BB1v3, slow it down to 16-17 knts and use the freed up strength for armor protection. Then that gives you a ~12,000 ton BB that I would hesitate to send an Illustrious (a 13,100 ship) into a 1v1 cagematch with. Also, I think the shell weight on your 6" guns is a bit low. Are these historical guns?

@snip period wise his belts are actualy about the right height perhaps even a bit tall for a conventional hull (this from the guy that likes 14' belt heights) I would have to do the math to see if they would cover 10' (which is about period norm) with that incline.

@ Delta I tend to agree with snip on your shell weights, the 6/40 both he and I are using throws a 100 pound shell so 80 feals a tad light.  I also question Russias (heck I question Italias need) for a 20 knot Battleship, realy I think he is right that you wold be better concentrating on a uniform battle line.

Quote from: Tanthalas on September 29, 2012, 11:56:02 AM
@snip period wise his belts are actualy about the right height perhaps even a bit tall for a conventional hull (this from the guy that likes 14' belt heights) I would have to do the math to see if they would cover 10' (which is about period norm) with that incline.

I tend to overprotect my ships, and I freely admit that *looks to see if there is a clinic for that*  I feel that especially with the Tumblehome, that these ships should have higher belts.

It turns out that a 30 degree angle reduces vertical belt height by half, so I've doubled the height (it now covers 8 feet in vertical height). The shell weights are based on historical guns, Russian 6 inch guns had shells only around 80-85 pounds during the 1890s. What do you think about dropping speed by an additional knot in order to increase the area covered or increase the thickness of the armor?

Also, I'm considering taking a rather Mahanian approach to the Russian fleet and refraining from the construction of protected cruisers (something Russia almost didn't develop in real life), with the fleet consisting of battleships, armored cruisers, and small combatants (torpedo boat destroyers, minelayers, etc.).

Tumblehome BB1v3B, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   11,710 t light; 12,210 t standard; 13,629 t normal; 14,764 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (408.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 70.00 ft (Bulges 76.00 ft) x (26.00 / 27.93 ft)
   (124.36 m / 121.92 m) x 21.34 m (Bulges 23.16 m)  x (7.92 / 8.51 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,120 lbs / 1,869 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,888 ihp / 8,122 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,553 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   629 - 819

Cost:
   £1.011 million / $4.045 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 739 tons, 5.4 %
      - Guns: 739 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 5,467 tons, 40.1 %
      - Belts: 3,647 tons, 26.8 %
      - Armament: 758 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 766 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 295 tons, 2.2 %
   Machinery: 1,845 tons, 13.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,648 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,919 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,172 lbs / 9,150 Kg = 23.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.78

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.604 / 0.609
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.26 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,546 Square feet or 1,909 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 627 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.16
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

8 feet? O boy, that is short. I would say go to 16knts and make the belt taller, even slightly at the expense of its thickness

Quote from: Delta Force on September 29, 2012, 01:08:31 PM
It turns out that a 30 degree angle reduces vertical belt height by half...

No it does not. 60° would. With 30° your belt covers 13.4% [cos(30°)=0.866] less than a normal vertical one.

I've revised the design again. It looks that ton for ton tumblehome designs are more powerful ships, although of course they are more fragile once hit.

Tumblehome BB1v3C, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   11,810 t light; 12,313 t standard; 13,739 t normal; 14,880 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (408.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 70.00 ft (Bulges 76.00 ft) x (26.00 / 27.93 ft)
   (124.36 m / 121.92 m) x 21.34 m (Bulges 23.16 m)  x (7.92 / 8.51 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,120 lbs / 1,869 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 14.00" / 356 mm, Aft 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,959 ihp / 8,175 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,567 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   633 - 824

Cost:
   £1.016 million / $4.065 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 739 tons, 5.4 %
      - Guns: 739 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 5,516 tons, 40.1 %
      - Belts: 3,557 tons, 25.9 %
      - Armament: 843 tons, 6.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 770 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 346 tons, 2.5 %
   Machinery: 1,857 tons, 13.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,688 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,929 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,252 lbs / 9,186 Kg = 23.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 13.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.78

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.608 / 0.613
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.26 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,640 Square feet or 1,918 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 631 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.18
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

I think a 16" belt is a tad overkill. Take it back to 14" and use the freed up strength to thicken the ends and upper?

For 1895, 16" is actually fairly normal: USS Indiana carried an 18" belt, USS Iowa a 14" belt, the Kearsarge carried a 16.5" belt, etc.

14-16" is upper end normal, during my research I have found main belts everywhere from 9-18" and Decks ranging from 1-4".  Honestly I just shoot for average.

Quote from: KWorld on September 29, 2012, 03:13:41 PM
For 1895, 16" is actually fairly normal: USS Indiana carried an 18" belt, USS Iowa a 14" belt, the Kearsarge carried a 16.5" belt, etc.

Given that it is slopped, and that battle ranges are short so it being a "negative" slope matter little, I think he can get away with a thiner one, and increase teh protected volume

Here are designs for a tumblehome battleship and armored cruiser. The armored cruiser can substitute a single 10 inch gun in place of two 8 inch guns and I may built a few with them.

Tumblehome BB1v3D, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   11,150 t light; 11,638 t standard; 13,015 t normal; 14,116 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (408.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 70.00 ft (Bulges 76.00 ft) x (26.00 / 27.92 ft)
   (124.36 m / 121.92 m) x 21.34 m (Bulges 23.16 m)  x (7.92 / 8.51 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,120 lbs / 1,869 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,492 ihp / 7,827 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,477 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   609 - 792

Cost:
   £0.982 million / $3.929 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 739 tons, 5.7 %
      - Guns: 739 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 5,007 tons, 38.5 %
      - Belts: 3,215 tons, 24.7 %
      - Armament: 758 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 747 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Towers: 286 tons, 2.2 %
   Machinery: 1,778 tons, 13.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,616 tons, 27.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,865 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,086 lbs / 8,657 Kg = 22.1 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.82

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.576 / 0.582
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.26 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,029 Square feet or 1,861 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 634 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 16.17 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equalvalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Tumblehome AC1, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1895

Displacement:
   7,700 t light; 8,057 t standard; 9,196 t normal; 10,107 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (448.00 ft / 440.00 ft) x 52.00 ft (Bulges 58.00 ft) x (24.00 / 26.04 ft)
   (136.55 m / 134.11 m) x 15.85 m (Bulges 17.68 m)  x (7.32 / 7.94 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,120 lbs / 962 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,633 ihp / 10,916 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,050 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £0.782 million / $3.127 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 448 tons, 4.9 %
      - Guns: 448 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 2,263 tons, 24.6 %
      - Belts: 1,544 tons, 16.8 %
      - Armament: 276 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 291 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 151 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,480 tons, 27.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,500 tons, 27.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,495 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,626 lbs / 3,913 Kg = 33.7 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.526 / 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,607 Square feet or 1,450 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 493 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equalvalent to 3.46 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Tumblehome BB1v4, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   11,040 t light; 11,526 t standard; 12,894 t normal; 13,988 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (388.00 ft / 380.00 ft) x 70.00 ft (Bulges 76.00 ft) x (26.00 / 27.97 ft)
   (118.26 m / 115.82 m) x 21.34 m (Bulges 23.16 m)  x (7.92 / 8.52 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,120 lbs / 1,869 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   248.00 ft / 75.59 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   132.00 ft / 40.23 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   248.00 ft / 75.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,800 ihp / 8,057 Kw = 17.03 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,462 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   604 - 786

Cost:
   £0.946 million / $3.784 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 767 tons, 5.9 %
      - Guns: 767 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 5,113 tons, 39.7 %
      - Belts: 3,091 tons, 24.0 %
      - Armament: 1,011 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 726 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 284 tons, 2.2 %
   Machinery: 1,830 tons, 14.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,320 tons, 25.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,854 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,636 lbs / 8,453 Kg = 21.6 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.70

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.601 / 0.606
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,473 Square feet or 1,809 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 619 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 16.17 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Tumblehome 2nd Class BB1, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   7,300 t light; 7,626 t standard; 8,170 t normal; 8,605 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (328.00 ft / 320.00 ft) x 64.00 ft (Bulges 70.00 ft) x (21.00 / 22.01 ft)
   (99.97 m / 97.54 m) x 19.51 m (Bulges 21.34 m)  x (6.40 / 6.71 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,800 lbs / 1,270 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   208.00 ft / 63.40 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   112.00 ft / 34.14 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   208.00 ft / 63.40 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,000 ihp / 4,476 Kw = 15.44 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 979 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   429 - 558

Cost:
   £0.634 million / $2.536 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 711 tons, 8.7 %
      - Guns: 711 tons, 8.7 %
   Armour: 3,594 tons, 44.0 %
      - Belts: 2,240 tons, 27.4 %
      - Armament: 616 tons, 7.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 563 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Towers: 175 tons, 2.1 %
   Machinery: 1,017 tons, 12.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,969 tons, 24.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 870 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,660 lbs / 5,289 Kg = 23.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.608 / 0.611
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,090 Square feet or 1,402 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 549 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 2.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 13.86 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Tumblehome ACv2, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   8,810 t light; 9,213 t standard; 10,434 t normal; 11,411 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (415.00 ft / 407.00 ft) x 68.00 ft (Bulges 74.00 ft) x (21.13 / 22.86 ft)
   (126.49 m / 124.05 m) x 20.73 m (Bulges 22.56 m)  x (6.44 / 6.97 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,120 lbs / 1,415 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   107.00 ft / 32.61 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17,200 ihp / 12,831 Kw = 20.02 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,198 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   516 - 671

Cost:
   £0.973 million / $3.893 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 776 tons, 7.4 %
      - Guns: 776 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 2,478 tons, 23.7 %
      - Belts: 1,534 tons, 14.7 %
      - Armament: 411 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 368 tons, 3.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 165 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,915 tons, 27.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,631 tons, 25.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,625 tons, 15.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,142 lbs / 3,693 Kg = 16.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.48
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.574 / 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,755 Square feet or 1,835 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 552 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 3.46 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Im confused as to why Russia needs second class battleships.

Quote from: snip on October 02, 2012, 10:55:16 PM
Im confused as to why Russia needs second class battleships.

They are intended as cheap coastal defense vessels for service on the Black Sea since any ships built there are unable to access the open ocean and the Ottomans aren't a major naval threat. They are also large and similar enough to battleships as to make it easier to build full sized battleships and other large craft should that access be gained later.

The Ottomans might be running with a "Jeune Ecole" school of thought for their navy.  Lots of torpedo boats and destroyers and lots of coast defense guns at choke points. 

Can a ship mount 12 inch main guns with 10 inch or 8 inch secondaries or is that too modern/semi-dreadnought like? The French had heavy secondaries during this era and I am considering doing something similar.

QuoteThe French had heavy secondaries during this era and I am considering doing something similar.

Not exactly I think, semi heavy secondaries -164-194-
Heavy secondaries - 240- are for Danton-1903-1906

You could mount 194 or 8"max , like US but not 234 or 240


Jef  ;)

Quote from: Jefgte on October 03, 2012, 05:24:55 PM

QuoteThe French had heavy secondaries during this era and I am considering doing something similar.

Not exactly I think, semi heavy secondaries -164-194-
Heavy secondaries - 240- are for Danton-1903-1906

You could mount 194 or 8"max , like US but not 234 or 240


Jef  ;)

Many French battleships of the early 1890s had 10.8 inch secondaries, although it was only two of them in two side turrets (not quite wing turrets) and the ships only had two 12 inch guns in fore and aft single mounts. I suppose you could consider them to be light main armament however seeing as they were intended as part of the main armament as opposed to supplements.

IMO,
4x12" or 2x12"+2x10"8 are main armament.
yes, 2x10"8 are light main armament.

Jef

Quote from: Delta Force on October 03, 2012, 05:13:20 PM
Can a ship mount 12 inch main guns with 10 inch or 8 inch secondaries or is that too modern/semi-dreadnought like? The French had heavy secondaries during this era and I am considering doing something similar.

The USN and RN have both done this already, the USS Iowas have 8" secondaries, and the HMS Albions have 9.2" secondaries..

Yes, have to have the 9.2s

The USN is pondering bringing back the heavy secondary battery in the near future, but if it comes back, it will probably be the 10" gun rather than the 8".   Might even see a stacked turret monstrosity like USS Virginia, with 10" guns over 12" guns.

Here are the battleships of the Russian Navy. I'm designing them somewhat in the Austro-Hungarian style, with the ships being rather short and bristling with armaments.

Tumblehome BB1v4B, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   12,570 t light; 13,158 t standard; 14,644 t normal; 15,834 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (392.00 ft / 384.00 ft) x 74.00 ft (Bulges 80.00 ft) x (26.25 / 28.19 ft)
   (119.48 m / 117.04 m) x 22.56 m (Bulges 24.38 m)  x (8.00 / 8.59 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,120 lbs / 2,776 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   134.00 ft / 40.84 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,800 ihp / 8,803 Kw = 17.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,676 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   665 - 865

Cost:
   £1.217 million / $4.868 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,127 tons, 7.7 %
      - Guns: 1,127 tons, 7.7 %
   Armour: 5,453 tons, 37.2 %
      - Belts: 3,157 tons, 21.6 %
      - Armament: 1,185 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 801 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 309 tons, 2.1 %
   Machinery: 2,000 tons, 13.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,980 tons, 27.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,074 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,190 lbs / 8,705 Kg = 22.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.61

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.636 / 0.640
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,482 Square feet or 1,996 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 701 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 16.17 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Tumblehome BB2, Russia Battleship laid down 1899

Displacement:
   12,800 t light; 13,459 t standard; 14,863 t normal; 15,986 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (418.00 ft / 410.00 ft) x 74.00 ft (Bulges 80.00 ft) x (26.00 / 27.76 ft)
   (127.41 m / 124.97 m) x 22.56 m (Bulges 24.38 m)  x (7.92 / 8.46 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1899 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1899 Model
     12 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 8,120 lbs / 3,683 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   266.00 ft / 81.08 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   144.00 ft / 43.89 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   266.00 ft / 81.08 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,120 ihp / 9,042 Kw = 17.25 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,527 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   672 - 874

Cost:
   £1.398 million / $5.592 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,560 tons, 10.5 %
      - Guns: 1,560 tons, 10.5 %
   Armour: 5,126 tons, 34.5 %
      - Belts: 2,823 tons, 19.0 %
      - Armament: 1,207 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 835 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 260 tons, 1.8 %
   Machinery: 1,924 tons, 12.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,181 tons, 28.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,063 tons, 13.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,459 lbs / 7,919 Kg = 20.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.67

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.615
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,398 Square feet or 2,081 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 732 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 13.86 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

So what do you think of these two ships? Are they too close to being semi-dreadnoughts?

They look perfectly fine to me, classic predreadnought battleships.  It's really the Lord Nelsons, Dantons, and the Satsumas, with their 10-12 gun heavy secondary battery that are semi-dreadnoughts.

I see absolutly no problem with the 8" secondary main ship for 1895 (im doing much the same thing after all), I might question the 10" guns for the period however.  Post startup I however would see no problem with it, especialy since OTL the british went to 9.2" in around 1902. 

However you may want to play around with belt heights just a bit as you have almost 2' of unarmored freeboard (course they are tumblehome hulls which presents all its own known problems)

Quote from: Delta Force on October 04, 2012, 12:14:13 PM
So what do you think of these two ships? Are they too close to being semi-dreadnoughts?

Quote from: Tanthalas on October 04, 2012, 12:30:36 PM
I see absolutly no problem with the 8" secondary main ship for 1895 (im doing much the same thing after all), I might question the 10" guns for the period however.  Post startup I however would see no problem with it, especialy since OTL the british went to 9.2" in around 1902. 

However you may want to play around with belt heights just a bit as you have almost 2' of unarmored freeboard (course they are tumblehome hulls which presents all its own known problems)

Quote from: Delta Force on October 04, 2012, 12:14:13 PM
So what do you think of these two ships? Are they too close to being semi-dreadnoughts?

It's only a waterline area belt, typical of most battleships of the era.

A Russian version of the Connecticut class battleship. I imagine if drawn it would be quite the unusual looking warship.

Tumblehome BB2v2, Russia Battleship laid down 1899

Displacement:
   12,570 t light; 13,193 t standard; 14,580 t normal; 15,689 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (392.00 ft / 384.00 ft) x 74.00 ft (Bulges 80.00 ft) x (26.25 / 28.06 ft)
   (119.48 m / 117.04 m) x 22.56 m (Bulges 24.38 m)  x (8.00 / 8.55 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1899 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1899 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 9,160 lbs / 4,155 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   134.00 ft / 40.84 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   5th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,660 ihp / 10,190 Kw = 17.68 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,496 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   663 - 862

Cost:
   £1.421 million / $5.684 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,599 tons, 11.0 %
      - Guns: 1,599 tons, 11.0 %
   Armour: 4,899 tons, 33.6 %
      - Belts: 2,688 tons, 18.4 %
      - Armament: 1,155 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 799 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 257 tons, 1.8 %
   Machinery: 2,168 tons, 14.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,893 tons, 26.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,010 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,864 lbs / 7,196 Kg = 18.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.633 / 0.637
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,426 Square feet or 1,991 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 729 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.64
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 16.17 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor.

Raised secondary mount is similar to stacked mount on the Kearsarge/Connecticut class battleships.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Tumblehome 2nd Class BB1v2, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,320 t standard; 7,860 t normal; 8,292 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (300.00 ft / 292.00 ft) x 72.00 ft (Bulges 78.00 ft) x (20.00 / 20.98 ft)
   (91.44 m / 89.00 m) x 21.95 m (Bulges 23.77 m)  x (6.10 / 6.39 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,800 lbs / 1,270 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   102.00 ft / 31.09 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,800 ihp / 4,327 Kw = 15.17 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 973 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   416 - 542

Cost:
   £0.619 million / $2.475 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 599 tons, 7.6 %
      - Guns: 599 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 3,320 tons, 42.2 %
      - Belts: 2,128 tons, 27.1 %
      - Armament: 446 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 576 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 170 tons, 2.2 %
   Machinery: 983 tons, 12.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,088 tons, 26.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 860 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,139 lbs / 5,506 Kg = 24.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.62
   Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.604 / 0.607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.74 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,433 Square feet or 1,434 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 570 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.47
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 13.86 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Tumblehome AC1v2, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1895b

Displacement:
   7,700 t light; 8,057 t standard; 9,196 t normal; 10,107 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (448.00 ft / 440.00 ft) x 52.00 ft (Bulges 58.00 ft) x (24.00 / 26.04 ft)
   (136.55 m / 134.11 m) x 15.85 m (Bulges 17.68 m)  x (7.32 / 7.94 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,120 lbs / 962 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,660 ihp / 10,937 Kw = 20.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,050 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £0.782 million / $3.129 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 448 tons, 4.9 %
      - Guns: 448 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 2,263 tons, 24.6 %
      - Belts: 1,544 tons, 16.8 %
      - Armament: 276 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 291 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 151 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,485 tons, 27.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,496 tons, 27.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,495 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,598 lbs / 3,900 Kg = 33.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.526 / 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,607 Square feet or 1,450 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 492 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equalvalent to 3.46 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

QuoteMain belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

Might want to fix that

Quote from: snip on October 05, 2012, 12:17:26 AM

QuoteMain belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

Might want to fix that

It was about 3 inches too short due to editing. Fixed now.

Tumblehome AC1v3, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1895

Displacement:
   7,700 t light; 8,057 t standard; 9,196 t normal; 10,107 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (448.00 ft / 440.00 ft) x 52.00 ft (Bulges 58.00 ft) x (24.00 / 26.04 ft)
   (136.55 m / 134.11 m) x 15.85 m (Bulges 17.68 m)  x (7.32 / 7.94 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,120 lbs / 962 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   302.00 ft / 92.05 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   138.00 ft / 42.06 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   302.00 ft / 92.05 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,660 ihp / 10,937 Kw = 20.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,050 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £0.782 million / $3.129 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 448 tons, 4.9 %
      - Guns: 448 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 2,271 tons, 24.7 %
      - Belts: 1,552 tons, 16.9 %
      - Armament: 276 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 291 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 151 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,485 tons, 27.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,488 tons, 27.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,495 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,573 lbs / 3,889 Kg = 33.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.526 / 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,607 Square feet or 1,450 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 491 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 3.46 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

I'm interested in comments on this design, it is intended to be an early version of the type of hybrid armored cruisers/battlecruisers Russia built in the 1900s. In other words it is better armed and armored than an armored cruiser but not as well armed and armored as a battleship.

Tumblehome AC2, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1897

Displacement:
   9,600 t light; 10,043 t standard; 11,286 t normal; 12,281 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (458.00 ft / 450.00 ft) x 54.00 ft (Bulges 60.00 ft) x (24.00 / 25.94 ft)
   (139.60 m / 137.16 m) x 16.46 m (Bulges 18.29 m)  x (7.32 / 7.91 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,120 lbs / 1,415 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   296.00 ft / 90.22 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   154.00 ft / 46.94 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   296.00 ft / 90.22 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,900 ihp / 12,607 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,238 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   546 - 711

Cost:
   £0.981 million / $3.922 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 664 tons, 5.9 %
      - Guns: 664 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 3,262 tons, 28.9 %
      - Belts: 2,093 tons, 18.5 %
      - Armament: 451 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 502 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 217 tons, 1.9 %
   Machinery: 2,771 tons, 24.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,894 tons, 25.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,686 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,637 lbs / 4,825 Kg = 21.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.614
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,933 Square feet or 1,666 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 530 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 9.24 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 4.62 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

IMO, this is a well balanced cruiser for 1897
Powerfull armament, exellent protection & correct speed.
In a few years, with the technics progress; turbines , Dreadnought types, BCs...

She "ll be a correct 10000t AC with just 4 main guns.

An other choice is to have an AC with 6, 8 or 10 semi heavy guns - 8" for example.
2T2x8" + 6x8" in casemates.
I made that choice for my Marcillia type;1898-7500t-10x194+8x100-21kts

Jef  ;)

The shells for the 6" guns seem awfully light at only 80 pounds.  Other than that, the only question I'd have is the narrow hull: is a 54' hull going to be wide enough to fit a pair of 10" guns in the late 1890s?

Other than those two questions, though, she seems rather similar to my own USS Georgia design (yours trades some speed for more armor and heavier secondaries), or to the historical USS Tennessee or the Russian Rurik II.

Quote from: KWorld on October 05, 2012, 05:01:42 AM
The shells for the 6" guns seem awfully light at only 80 pounds.  Other than that, the only question I'd have is the narrow hull: is a 54' hull going to be wide enough to fit a pair of 10" guns in the late 1890s?

Other than those two questions, though, she seems rather similar to my own USS Georgia design (yours trades some speed for more armor and heavier secondaries), or to the historical USS Tennessee or the Russian Rurik II.

The historic Russian 6 inch guns of this era used 80 pound shells, so I went with that. I'm not so sure about the 10 inch guns being able to fit on a 54 foot hull myself though, and there are not very many ships that mounted the 10 inch as a main armament to use as a pointer.

Quote from: Delta Force on October 06, 2012, 12:36:37 AM

Quote from: KWorld on October 05, 2012, 05:01:42 AM
The shells for the 6" guns seem awfully light at only 80 pounds.  Other than that, the only question I'd have is the narrow hull: is a 54' hull going to be wide enough to fit a pair of 10" guns in the late 1890s?

Other than those two questions, though, she seems rather similar to my own USS Georgia design (yours trades some speed for more armor and heavier secondaries), or to the historical USS Tennessee or the Russian Rurik II.

The historic Russian 6 inch guns of this era used 80 pound shells, so I went with that. I'm not so sure about the 10 inch guns being able to fit on a 54 foot hull myself though, and there are not very many ships that mounted the 10 inch as a main armament to use as a pointer.

WHat I can find for period Russian 6"/45s says they used 91.2-91-.4 pound shells (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_6-45_m1892.htm).

Quote from: KWorld on October 06, 2012, 03:23:51 AM

Quote from: Delta Force on October 06, 2012, 12:36:37 AM

Quote from: KWorld on October 05, 2012, 05:01:42 AM
The shells for the 6" guns seem awfully light at only 80 pounds.  Other than that, the only question I'd have is the narrow hull: is a 54' hull going to be wide enough to fit a pair of 10" guns in the late 1890s?

Other than those two questions, though, she seems rather similar to my own USS Georgia design (yours trades some speed for more armor and heavier secondaries), or to the historical USS Tennessee or the Russian Rurik II.

The historic Russian 6 inch guns of this era used 80 pound shells, so I went with that. I'm not so sure about the 10 inch guns being able to fit on a 54 foot hull myself though, and there are not very many ships that mounted the 10 inch as a main armament to use as a pointer.

WHat I can find for period Russian 6"/45s says they used 91.2-91-.4 pound shells (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_6-45_m1892.htm).

I think I accidentally used the wrong weapon as the baseline. Looks like the shell weights are closer to those for a French 5.5 inch gun. I'll just go ahead and clean up the ships with the 6 inch later on, although it is almost all of my ships at least I do not have that many ship classes.

On another subject, I have a design for the torpedo boat destroyer of the Russian Navy. Being a Mahanian navy they are designed with improved seakeeping and range relative to the small ships of other navies.

TBD1, Russia Torpedo Boat Destroyer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   500 t light; 515 t standard; 595 t normal; 658 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (250.00 ft / 250.00 ft) x 25.00 ft x (8.00 / 8.57 ft)
   (76.20 m / 76.20 m) x 7.62 m  x (2.44 / 2.61 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 40 lbs / 18 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,160 ihp / 6,833 Kw = 26.25 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 143 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   59 - 78

Cost:
   £0.069 million / $0.277 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 0.9 %
      - Guns: 5 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 358 tons, 60.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 130 tons, 21.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 94 tons, 15.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     123 lbs / 56 Kg = 9.1 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.65
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 8.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.416 / 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.40 ft / 3.17 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,886 Square feet or 361 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 89 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.45
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 0.50
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
3 tons on deck is for 2 x 18 inch fore mounted torpedo tubes with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Trial speed: 29 knots

The 3" guns should be firing  shells of around 11 pounds, see http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_29-50_m1891.htm.


Also, I wouldn't recommend reload torpedoes on a vessel this sizw.  First off, you don't have enough weight for them (6 * 1250 i= 7500, and that's just torps. not the tubes). secondm reloading will be a real; problem on a vessel this size.

Quote from: KWorld on October 06, 2012, 03:04:47 PM
The 3" guns should be firing  shells of around 11 pounds, see http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_29-50_m1891.htm.


Also, I wouldn't recommend reload torpedoes on a vessel this sizw.  First off, you don't have enough weight for them (6 * 1250 i= 7500, and that's just torps. not the tubes). secondm reloading will be a real; problem on a vessel this size.

How do we get the total system weight for torpedoes? All it gives me is torpedo weights. Do you have to save, reload, and then put what it says into miscellaneous weights?

The weight SS3 shows in the Distribution of Weights is what it thinks the system weighs, that number doesn't change.  What saving and reloading does is causes SS3 to actually apply the weights for torpedoes and mines to the design.

I've got torpedoes of the same size coming out with different weights on different ships. What should I do about that?

Same year on the ships? I had that issue and just plunked on the misc weight from the rules and said piss on it.

Quote from: Delta Force on October 06, 2012, 10:21:41 PM
I've got torpedoes of the same size coming out with different weights on different ships. What should I do about that?

We might have to go back to a fixed misc weight for torps. For now, budget for more then you need. The mods will talk about it.

Quote from: Tanthalas on October 06, 2012, 11:44:32 PM
Same year on the ships? I had that issue and just plunked on the misc weight from the rules and said piss on it.

Quote from: Delta Force on October 06, 2012, 10:21:41 PM
I've got torpedoes of the same size coming out with different weights on different ships. What should I do about that?

No, but same dimensions. No reason why an 1898 torpedo should weigh 20% more than an 1895 torpedo of the exact same dimensions.

Quote from: Delta Force on October 07, 2012, 01:01:10 AM

Quote from: Tanthalas on October 06, 2012, 11:44:32 PM
Same year on the ships? I had that issue and just plunked on the misc weight from the rules and said piss on it.

Quote from: Delta Force on October 06, 2012, 10:21:41 PM
I've got torpedoes of the same size coming out with different weights on different ships. What should I do about that?

No, but same dimensions. No reason why an 1898 torpedo should weigh 20% more than an 1895 torpedo of the exact same dimensions.

Actually, there are reasons, that don't impact the torpedo itself: better sights, for example, more robust mounts , etc. 

Agreed, but in my case they are all the exact same year, on the exact same mount... nope im not real proud of the SS3 torpedo weigbht thing.

Quote from: KWorld on October 07, 2012, 03:47:14 AM

Quote from: Delta Force on October 07, 2012, 01:01:10 AM

Quote from: Tanthalas on October 06, 2012, 11:44:32 PM
Same year on the ships? I had that issue and just plunked on the misc weight from the rules and said piss on it.

Quote from: Delta Force on October 06, 2012, 10:21:41 PM
I've got torpedoes of the same size coming out with different weights on different ships. What should I do about that?

No, but same dimensions. No reason why an 1898 torpedo should weigh 20% more than an 1895 torpedo of the exact same dimensions.

Actually, there are reasons, that don't impact the torpedo itself: better sights, for example, more robust mounts , etc.

So, any ideas on what to do with my last 0.14 tons of construction?

Also, any historical precedent for having ships of the same class have different naming conventions? I am considering naming my European based destroyers after rivers while my Caspian and Pacific based ones will be named after lakes.

Quote from: Delta Force on October 09, 2012, 09:47:43 PM
So, any ideas on what to do with my last 0.14 tons of construction?

Also, any historical precedent for having ships of the same class have different naming conventions? I am considering naming my European based destroyers after rivers while my Caspian and Pacific based ones will be named after lakes.

Looks like it will be 10.14 tons. Any recommendations?

Thoughts on these as Black Sea ships? The first one is the same as my "finalized" 2nd Class BB, except for a shorter belt (the other one was so tall it was mostly underwater) and a range reduction of 1,000 miles. The second one is more of a classic coastal defense ship with lighter armor.

Tumblehome 2nd Class BB2, Russia Battleship laid down 1897

Displacement:
   6,210 t light; 6,505 t standard; 6,880 t normal; 7,180 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (300.00 ft / 292.00 ft) x 72.00 ft (Bulges 78.00 ft) x (17.50 / 18.18 ft)
   (91.44 m / 89.00 m) x 21.95 m (Bulges 23.77 m)  x (5.33 / 5.54 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,816 lbs / 1,277 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   102.00 ft / 31.09 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,357 ihp / 3,997 Kw = 15.13 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 674 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   377 - 491

Cost:
   £0.576 million / $2.306 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 599 tons, 8.7 %
      - Guns: 599 tons, 8.7 %
   Armour: 2,715 tons, 39.5 %
      - Belts: 1,538 tons, 22.3 %
      - Armament: 446 tons, 6.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 576 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 156 tons, 2.3 %
   Machinery: 878 tons, 12.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,997 tons, 29.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 670 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.3 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,473 lbs / 4,751 Kg = 20.9 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.61
   Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.604 / 0.607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.74 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,436 Square feet or 1,434 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 564 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.35
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 8 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 13.86 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Tumblehome 2nd Class BB2v2, Russia Battleship laid down 1897

Displacement:
   4,700 t light; 4,964 t standard; 5,278 t normal; 5,529 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (270.00 ft / 262.00 ft) x 62.00 ft (Bulges 68.00 ft) x (17.50 / 18.25 ft)
   (82.30 m / 79.86 m) x 18.90 m (Bulges 20.73 m)  x (5.33 / 5.56 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,816 lbs / 1,277 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   170.00 ft / 51.82 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm     92.00 ft / 28.04 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   170.00 ft / 51.82 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,640 ihp / 3,461 Kw = 15.13 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 566 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   309 - 402

Cost:
   £0.507 million / $2.028 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 599 tons, 11.3 %
      - Guns: 599 tons, 11.3 %
   Armour: 1,778 tons, 33.7 %
      - Belts: 975 tons, 18.5 %
      - Armament: 343 tons, 6.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 330 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 131 tons, 2.5 %
   Machinery: 761 tons, 14.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,542 tons, 29.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 578 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.4 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,446 lbs / 2,924 Kg = 12.9 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.49
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.593 / 0.595
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.85 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.19 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,798 Square feet or 1,096 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 558 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 2.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 8 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 9.24 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 4.62 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Holy frekin slow... that is all.

Quote from: Tanthalas on October 11, 2012, 07:24:35 PM
Holy frekin slow... that is all.

Coastal battleships aren't exactly known for their speed.

True, but I assume its for Baltic use, where it will likley be facing the massive Ottoman shore batteries, or the Ottoman BBs (which while slow have larger guns and better armor protection), or far east service where its likley oponants are the IJN BBs or their shore batteries... I just dont think it would fare very well against either potential foe.

Quote from: Delta Force on October 12, 2012, 12:00:00 AM

Quote from: Tanthalas on October 11, 2012, 07:24:35 PM
Holy frekin slow... that is all.

Coastal battleships aren't exactly known for their speed.

QuoteCoastal battleships aren't exactly known for their speed.

That's why I don't use them.

I prefer second or third class Battleships, well balanced, able to work if necessary at the end of the BBs battle line.
In my concept, 2nd class BB is able to destroy a big AC.
The third class BB is able to destroy a small AC.

Jef

I feel that both ships are total white elephants and will have minimal practical utility outside of just sitting there and looking somewhat imposing. They can be caught and shreaded by real and second class battleships, and any AC or smaller can chose to engage or run. Coastal defenses will pick them apart (tho this is a failing of all capital ships, these cannot run). Overall, I would add some similar sized cruisers with minelaying abilities instead of these.

I tend to agree with snip, if you realy want big guns in there though, somthing like this would proly be better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wyoming_(BM-10)

What should the armor configuration look like on a monitor with 4-6 foot freeboard? I've never designed a fully armored ship with such low freeboard and am wondering how tall the belt should be.

Proly a single armored belt 8-10' tall (just enough to cover the entire freeboard).

Quote from: Delta Force on October 12, 2012, 07:28:16 PM
What should the armor configuration look like on a monitor with 4-6 foot freeboard? I've never designed a fully armored ship with such low freeboard and am wondering how tall the belt should be.

This monitor design is intended for service in the shallow waters of the Baltic as well as for operations on major rivers.

BM1, Russia Monitor laid down 1897

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,138 t standard; 3,390 t normal; 3,591 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (240.00 ft / 240.00 ft) x 56.50 ft x (12.50 / 13.15 ft)
   (73.15 m / 73.15 m) x 17.22 m  x (3.81 / 4.01 m)

Armament:
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1897 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,700 lbs / 771 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   156.00 ft / 47.55 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm     84.00 ft / 25.60 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,525 ihp / 1,138 Kw = 11.93 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 452 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   221 - 288

Cost:
   £0.268 million / $1.071 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 257 tons, 7.6 %
      - Guns: 257 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 1,394 tons, 41.1 %
      - Belts: 784 tons, 23.1 %
      - Armament: 127 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 405 tons, 12.0 %
      - Conning Towers: 78 tons, 2.3 %
   Machinery: 250 tons, 7.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,100 tons, 32.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 389 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,321 lbs / 2,414 Kg = 6.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.58
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.705
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Average freeboard:      5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 46.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,868 Square feet or 1,010 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 473 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

A new second class battleship.

Tumblehome 2nd Class BB2v3B, Russia Battleship laid down 1897

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,360 t standard; 8,409 t normal; 9,249 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (368.00 ft / 360.00 ft) x 66.00 ft (Bulges 72.00 ft) x (18.25 / 19.91 ft)
   (112.17 m / 109.73 m) x 20.12 m (Bulges 21.95 m)  x (5.56 / 6.07 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,816 lbs / 1,731 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   234.00 ft / 71.32 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   126.00 ft / 38.40 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   234.00 ft / 71.32 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,920 ihp / 6,655 Kw = 17.15 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,889 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   438 - 570

Cost:
   £0.733 million / $2.930 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 599 tons, 7.1 %
      - Guns: 599 tons, 7.1 %
   Armour: 2,329 tons, 27.7 %
      - Belts: 1,285 tons, 15.3 %
      - Armament: 369 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 496 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Towers: 178 tons, 2.1 %
   Machinery: 1,462 tons, 17.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,590 tons, 30.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,409 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.2 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,211 lbs / 4,632 Kg = 11.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.622 / 0.627
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,741 Square feet or 1,648 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 581 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 8 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 9.24 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 4.62 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Probably not going to build this, just wanted to see how small something capable of scaring away an armored cruiser could be.

Tumblehome 3rd Class BB1, Russia Battleship laid down 1898

Displacement:
   6,230 t light; 6,538 t standard; 7,503 t normal; 8,275 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (348.00 ft / 340.00 ft) x 66.00 ft (Bulges 72.00 ft) x (17.50 / 19.13 ft)
   (106.07 m / 103.63 m) x 20.12 m (Bulges 21.95 m)  x (5.33 / 5.83 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1898 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,816 lbs / 1,277 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   222.00 ft / 67.67 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   118.00 ft / 35.97 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   222.00 ft / 67.67 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,240 ihp / 6,147 Kw = 17.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,737 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   403 - 524

Cost:
   £0.640 million / $2.561 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 599 tons, 8.0 %
      - Guns: 599 tons, 8.0 %
   Armour: 2,176 tons, 29.0 %
      - Belts: 1,228 tons, 16.4 %
      - Armament: 317 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 465 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 165 tons, 2.2 %
   Machinery: 1,329 tons, 17.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,107 tons, 28.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,273 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.3 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,551 lbs / 4,332 Kg = 19.1 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.59
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.613 / 0.619
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.72 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,612 Square feet or 1,543 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 531 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 8 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 9.24 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 4.62 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

A torpedo boat for service on the Black Sea and protected waters of the Baltic.

TB1, Russia Torpedo Boat laid down 1898

Displacement:
   250 t light; 256 t standard; 291 t normal; 319 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (223.20 ft / 223.20 ft) x 18.60 ft x (6.00 / 6.38 ft)
   (68.03 m / 68.03 m) x 5.67 m  x (1.83 / 1.95 m)

Armament:
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 6 lbs / 3 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,800 ihp / 4,327 Kw = 26.05 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 63 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   34 - 45

Cost:
   £0.035 million / $0.138 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.5 %
      - Guns: 1 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 181 tons, 62.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 65 tons, 22.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 41 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     60 lbs / 27 Kg = 19.0 x 1.9 " / 47 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.64
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 8.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.75

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.409 / 0.422
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.94 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.50 ft / 1.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 202.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,569 Square feet or 239 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 16 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 75 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 0.62
      - Overall: 0.50
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Miscellaneous weight:
2 tons on deck is for 2 x 18 inch fore mounted torpedo tubes with 1x 1,250 pound torpedoes each (single shot).

Trial Speed: 31 knots

Rules: You need to find .01 cross sectional strength to make this legal. It currently has .49 cros sectional and the minimum is .50

Opinion: I also feel that 150 RPG on the 47mm is just not enough. That being said, these ships are fast, and will serve there roll well. On that note, freeboard could be a bit higher to provide better seakeeping.

Quote from: snip on October 15, 2012, 01:27:06 AM
Rules: You need to find .01 cross sectional strength to make this legal. It currently has .49 cros sectional and the minimum is .50

Opinion: I also feel that 150 RPG on the 47mm is just not enough. That being said, these ships are fast, and will serve there roll well. On that note, freeboard could be a bit higher to provide better seakeeping.

I thought it was changed to overall strength for this round. Looks like I'll need to revise my torpedo boat destroyer as well.

Also here is another small warship of the Russian Navy. These gunboats are intended for service on the Caspian Sea and are capable of carrying large amounts of cargo and/or soldiers across the Sea. The armament can also be used as landing guns by the embarked soldiers if they need extra firepower ashore. A variant of this might serve as a harbor protection ship with my other fleets, keeping watch for torpedoboats and trading cargo capacity for guns, searchlights, and a higher top speed. Alternatively I might just make a new larger ship designed for the role because this one is designed to be under 200 tons so it can be built in factories outside the Caspian.

PG1, Russia Gunboat laid down 1898

Displacement:
   200 t light; 207 t standard; 226 t normal; 242 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (136.00 ft / 136.00 ft) x 22.50 ft x (6.00 / 6.30 ft)
   (41.45 m / 41.45 m) x 6.86 m  x (1.83 / 1.92 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 120 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm 95.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 24 lbs / 11 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 300 ihp / 224 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 1,250nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 35 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   28 - 37

Cost:
   £0.015 million / $0.061 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6 tons, 2.5 %
      - Guns: 6 tons, 2.5 %
   Machinery: 48 tons, 21.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 71 tons, 31.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 26 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 33.2 %
      - Hull above water: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     257 lbs / 116 Kg = 19.0 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 9.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.82

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.431 / 0.439
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,826 Square feet or 170 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 133 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.15
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

My destroyer and torpedo boat have been revised. I couldn't get the seaworthiness on the torpedo boat up as slight increases in the freeboard had major changes on hull strength. It is not intended for operations of more than a few hours so hopefully it should be less of an issue than with other ships.

TBD1v2, Russia Torpedo Boat Destroyer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   500 t light; 513 t standard; 592 t normal; 656 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (250.00 ft / 250.00 ft) x 25.00 ft x (8.00 / 8.57 ft)
   (76.20 m / 76.20 m) x 7.62 m  x (2.44 / 2.61 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 24 lbs / 11 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,000 ihp / 6,714 Kw = 26.16 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 143 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   59 - 78

Cost:
   £0.069 million / $0.276 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 0.9 %
      - Guns: 5 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 356 tons, 60.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 135 tons, 22.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 92 tons, 15.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     141 lbs / 64 Kg = 10.4 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.84
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 8.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.415 / 0.428
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.80 ft / 2.99 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,882 Square feet or 361 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 97 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

Miscellaneous weight:
3 tons on deck is for 4 x 18 inch fore mounted torpedo tubes with 1 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each (single shot).

Trial Speed: 29 knots

TB1v2, Russia Torpedo Boat laid down 1898

Displacement:
   250 t light; 257 t standard; 292 t normal; 320 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (223.20 ft / 223.20 ft) x 18.60 ft x (6.00 / 6.38 ft)
   (68.03 m / 68.03 m) x 5.67 m  x (1.83 / 1.95 m)

Armament:
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 6 lbs / 3 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,650 ihp / 4,215 Kw = 25.87 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 63 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   34 - 45

Cost:
   £0.034 million / $0.138 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.5 %
      - Guns: 1 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 181 tons, 62.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 65 tons, 22.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 42 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     61 lbs / 28 Kg = 19.3 x 1.9 " / 47 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.63
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 8.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.76

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.423
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.94 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.50 ft / 1.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 201.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,571 Square feet or 239 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 16 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 75 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.62
      - Overall: 0.51
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Miscellaneous weight:
2 tons on deck is for 2 x 18 inch fore mounted torpedo tubes with 1 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each (single shot).

Trial Speed: 31 knots

Here are two mine warfare ships. Both are modified TBD designs which have reduced engine size and fuel capacity to accommodate their equipment.

TBDM1, Russia Torpedo Boat Destroyer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   500 t light; 512 t standard; 564 t normal; 606 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (250.00 ft / 250.00 ft) x 25.00 ft x (8.00 / 8.38 ft)
   (76.20 m / 76.20 m) x 7.62 m  x (2.44 / 2.56 m)

Armament:
      1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal gun - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1898 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline forward
      Weight of broadside 12 lbs / 5 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,200 ihp / 4,625 Kw = 24.16 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 94 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   57 - 75

Cost:
   £0.063 million / $0.253 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - Guns: 3 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 321 tons, 56.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 129 tons, 22.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 64 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 48 tons, 8.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 48 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     136 lbs / 62 Kg = 10.1 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.38

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.395 / 0.405
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.80 ft / 2.99 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,834 Square feet or 356 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 27 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 92 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
48 tons on deck is for 48 mines.

Trial Speed: 27 knots

TBDMS1, Russia Torpedo Boat Destroyer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   500 t light; 512 t standard; 564 t normal; 606 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (250.00 ft / 250.00 ft) x 25.00 ft x (8.00 / 8.38 ft)
   (76.20 m / 76.20 m) x 7.62 m  x (2.44 / 2.56 m)

Armament:
      1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal gun - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1898 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline forward
      Weight of broadside 12 lbs / 5 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,200 ihp / 4,625 Kw = 24.16 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 94 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   57 - 75

Cost:
   £0.063 million / $0.253 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - Guns: 3 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 321 tons, 56.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 129 tons, 22.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 64 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 48 tons, 8.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 48 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     136 lbs / 62 Kg = 10.1 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.38

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.395 / 0.405
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.80 ft / 2.99 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,834 Square feet or 356 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 27 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 92 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
48 tons on deck is for mine detection and removal equipment.

Trial Speed: 27 knots

Thoughts on these mine warfare vessels?

They seem overly fast for defensive minelayers, but the range at speed is going to be very low for offensive minelaying.  You might be better off with fewer but larger vessels for offensive minelaying, and slower (10-12 knots or so) vessels for defensive minelaying.

Here are my new offensive and defensive minelayers.

CM1, Russia Minelaying Cruiser laid down 1898

Displacement:
   2,600 t light; 2,713 t standard; 3,146 t normal; 3,493 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (360.00 ft / 360.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (12.00 / 13.00 ft)
   (109.73 m / 109.73 m) x 15.24 m  x (3.66 / 3.96 m)

Armament:
      10 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 500 lbs / 227 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,100 ihp / 6,042 Kw = 19.95 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 781 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   209 - 273

Cost:
   £0.299 million / $1.197 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 81 tons, 2.6 %
      - Guns: 81 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 25 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armament: 25 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,306 tons, 41.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 959 tons, 30.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 547 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 228 tons, 7.2 %
      - Hull above water: 228 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,049 lbs / 930 Kg = 39.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.91
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 9.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.50 ft / 3.51 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.86 ft / 3.31 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,101 Square feet or 1,124 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 303 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
228 tons above water is for 228 mines.

MLC1, Russia Coastal Minelayer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   230 t light; 238 t standard; 290 t normal; 331 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (160.00 ft / 160.00 ft) x 22.00 ft x (6.00 / 6.63 ft)
   (48.77 m / 48.77 m) x 6.71 m  x (1.83 / 2.02 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 24 lbs / 11 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 300 ihp / 224 Kw = 11.62 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 93 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   34 - 45

Cost:
   £0.016 million / $0.066 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 5 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 1.5 %
   Machinery: 48 tons, 16.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 90 tons, 31.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 59 tons, 20.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 82 tons, 28.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 82 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     614 lbs / 279 Kg = 45.5 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.56

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.497
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,304 Square feet or 214 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 146 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 136 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Miscellaneous weight:
82 tons on deck is for 82 mines.

I'd call those better.  On the defensive minelayer, you could probably shave the range enough to get an even 100 mines aboard, just for the ease of laying fields.

Managed to get the ship down to 220 tons (so I can have six of them) and give it 100 mines.

MLC1v2, Russia Coastal Minelayer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   220 t light; 227 t standard; 252 t normal; 272 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (140.00 ft / 140.00 ft) x 20.00 ft x (6.00 / 6.38 ft)
   (42.67 m / 42.67 m) x 6.10 m  x (1.83 / 1.94 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 24 lbs / 11 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 250 ihp / 187 Kw = 11.20 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 45 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   31 - 41

Cost:
   £0.015 million / $0.060 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 2.1 %
      - Guns: 5 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 40 tons, 16.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 70 tons, 27.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 32 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 39.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     445 lbs / 202 Kg = 33.0 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.524 / 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Average freeboard:      5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,841 Square feet or 171 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 1.04
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
100 tons on deck is for 100 mines or 100 tons of minesweeping equipment, cargo, etc.

On the Tsesarevich Class Battleship in the encyclopedia:

1 - the guns are newer than the ship, that doesn't work very well when the ship hasn't been refitted.

2 - the 8" guns in the deck and hoist mounts fore and aft: what are these?  Generally, 8" is too big for a mount like this..... and if they were supposed to be stacked turrets like the Kearsarge, they should be raised mounts.

3 - the 8" casemate mounts - these WILL work, after all Scharnhorst's 8.2s did, but are you sure you want slower firing guns like this?  It means you only have the 3" guns as anti-TB defenses, and there's not enough of those....

Seconded on all points, my new large cruisers mount 3" in conjunction with 4.7" guns, and I honestly plan to remove the 3" guns at her first refit, it will be a nice storyline reason but ill replace them with fewer 4.7" guns (I dont actualy anticipate finding the hull casemate issue mostly due to my service area being the med/IO both of which dont have heavy seas)

Quote from: KWorld on October 31, 2012, 05:51:35 AM
On the Tsesarevich Class Battleship in the encyclopedia:

1 - the guns are newer than the ship, that doesn't work very well when the ship hasn't been refitted.

2 - the 8" guns in the deck and hoist mounts fore and aft: what are these?  Generally, 8" is too big for a mount like this..... and if they were supposed to be stacked turrets like the Kearsarge, they should be raised mounts.

3 - the 8" casemate mounts - these WILL work, after all Scharnhorst's 8.2s did, but are you sure you want slower firing guns like this?  It means you only have the 3" guns as anti-TB defenses, and there's not enough of those....

Quote from: KWorld on October 31, 2012, 05:51:35 AM
On the Tsesarevich Class Battleship in the encyclopedia:

1 - the guns are newer than the ship, that doesn't work very well when the ship hasn't been refitted.

2 - the 8" guns in the deck and hoist mounts fore and aft: what are these?  Generally, 8" is too big for a mount like this..... and if they were supposed to be stacked turrets like the Kearsarge, they should be raised mounts.

3 - the 8" casemate mounts - these WILL work, after all Scharnhorst's 8.2s did, but are you sure you want slower firing guns like this?  It means you only have the 3" guns as anti-TB defenses, and there's not enough of those....

1. I changed the construction date of a few of my ships so they would be more realistically spaced. I thought that when changing the hull date it would change the date for everything else, just like it does with the engine. I'll check and see if there are similar issues with any other ships.

2. They are supposed to be Kearsarge stacked mounts, but I forgot to raise the mounts.

3. I know that is an issue, but I wasn't really sure where else I could safely put the smaller TB defense guns. The fighting tops probably can't accommodate any more than they have already, the casemate positions are of course full, and I am unsure if simply having open mounts amidships would make them difficult to operate due to the blast effects of the heavy casemate battery below and the smaller TB defense guns overhead. Would deck level casemates in the German style be the best place to put additional TB defense guns?

Honestly Delta I cant give you a good answer short of drawing the ship (im not going to I still have to many of my own to draw/finish drawing) but you could rough somthing out even if your not up to the shipbucket level.  I draw every one of my ships because I have found sometimes things I did in spring sharp just dont make sence when I start drawing them (like the hull casemate 4.7" guns on the Gladius class WTF was I thinking...) so as I get them drawn I make corections to the spring sharp file then post a final with the picture.  One thing you might consider is hull end casemates for 3" guns (ALA German ACs and BBs, I have 4 per side on my new ACs)

Just at a guess without udrawing things out, if you want to add additional 3" guns you're basically limited to 2 areas: main deck level casemates between the 8" turrets,(probably no more than 3 guns or so per side) or hull caxemates fore and aft of the 8" casemates (there'd be room for 4 per side or so)..    It'll be very bad to be an AC around this thing, I'll say that.

I already have five different weapons categories on the Tsesarevich class. How should I go about adding additional torpedo defense guns seeing as they will be in casemates? Add them as miscellaneous weight and make a note of them?

I had to update most of my BBs and ACs to change the 10"/45 and 8"/45 guns to 10"/40 and 8"/40 guns. While at it I decided to see how much miscellaneous weight the ships can hold as well, it suitable. Here are the BBs, minus Tsesarevich (still trying to figure out how to do six weapons systems on one ship).

Dvenadsat Apostolov Class, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   12,570 t light; 13,157 t standard; 14,643 t normal; 15,833 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (392.00 ft / 384.00 ft) x 74.00 ft (Bulges 80.00 ft) x (26.25 / 28.19 ft)
   (119.48 m / 117.04 m) x 22.56 m (Bulges 24.38 m)  x (8.00 / 8.59 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 40.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,176 lbs / 2,801 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   134.00 ft / 40.84 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,760 ihp / 8,773 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,676 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   665 - 865

Cost:
   £1.186 million / $4.744 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,086 tons, 7.4 %
      - Guns: 1,086 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 5,453 tons, 37.2 %
      - Belts: 3,157 tons, 21.6 %
      - Armament: 1,185 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 801 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 309 tons, 2.1 %
   Machinery: 1,993 tons, 13.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,950 tons, 27.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,073 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 88 tons, 0.6 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 68 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,458 lbs / 8,826 Kg = 22.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.62

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.636 / 0.640
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,481 Square feet or 1,996 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 696 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 16.17 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.
68 tons above deck reserve weight.

Peresvet Class, Russia Second Class Battleship laid down 1897

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,360 t standard; 8,409 t normal; 9,249 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (368.00 ft / 360.00 ft) x 66.00 ft (Bulges 72.00 ft) x (18.25 / 19.91 ft)
   (112.17 m / 109.73 m) x 20.12 m (Bulges 21.95 m)  x (5.56 / 6.07 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,816 lbs / 1,731 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   234.00 ft / 71.32 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   126.00 ft / 38.40 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   234.00 ft / 71.32 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,920 ihp / 6,655 Kw = 17.15 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,889 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   438 - 570

Cost:
   £0.733 million / $2.930 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 620 tons, 7.4 %
      - Guns: 620 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 2,329 tons, 27.7 %
      - Belts: 1,285 tons, 15.3 %
      - Armament: 369 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 496 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Towers: 178 tons, 2.1 %
   Machinery: 1,462 tons, 17.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,558 tons, 30.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,409 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 31 tons, 0.4 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 11 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,199 lbs / 4,626 Kg = 11.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.622 / 0.627
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,741 Square feet or 1,648 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 579 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 8 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 9.24 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 4.62 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.
11 tons above deck reserve weight.

Minelayers.

MLC-1 Class, Russia Coastal Minelayer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   220 t light; 227 t standard; 252 t normal; 272 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (140.00 ft / 140.00 ft) x 20.00 ft x (6.00 / 6.38 ft)
   (42.67 m / 42.67 m) x 6.10 m  x (1.83 / 1.94 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 24 lbs / 11 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 250 ihp / 187 Kw = 11.20 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 45 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   31 - 41

Cost:
   £0.015 million / $0.060 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 2.1 %
      - Guns: 5 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 40 tons, 16.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 70 tons, 27.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 32 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 39.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     445 lbs / 202 Kg = 33.0 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.524 / 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Average freeboard:      5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,841 Square feet or 171 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 1.04
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
100 tons on deck is for 100 mines or 100 tons of minesweeping equipment, cargo, etc.

Onega Class, Russia Minelaying Cruiser laid down 1898

Displacement:
   2,600 t light; 2,713 t standard; 3,146 t normal; 3,493 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (360.00 ft / 360.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (12.00 / 13.00 ft)
   (109.73 m / 109.73 m) x 15.24 m  x (3.66 / 3.96 m)

Armament:
      10 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 500 lbs / 227 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,100 ihp / 6,042 Kw = 19.95 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 781 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   209 - 273

Cost:
   £0.299 million / $1.197 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 81 tons, 2.6 %
      - Guns: 81 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 25 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armament: 25 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,306 tons, 41.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 959 tons, 30.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 547 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 228 tons, 7.2 %
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - Above deck: 28 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,060 lbs / 935 Kg = 39.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.89
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 9.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.50 ft / 3.51 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.86 ft / 3.31 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 149.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,101 Square feet or 1,124 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 303 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
200 tons above water is for 200 mines.
28 tons above deck reserve weight.

Fast Combatants.

TB-1 Class, Russia Torpedo Boat laid down 1898

Displacement:
   250 t light; 257 t standard; 292 t normal; 320 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (223.20 ft / 223.20 ft) x 18.60 ft x (6.00 / 6.38 ft)
   (68.03 m / 68.03 m) x 5.67 m  x (1.83 / 1.95 m)

Armament:
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 6 lbs / 3 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,650 ihp / 4,215 Kw = 25.87 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 63 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   34 - 45

Cost:
   £0.034 million / $0.138 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.5 %
      - Guns: 1 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 181 tons, 62.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 65 tons, 22.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 42 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     61 lbs / 28 Kg = 19.3 x 1.9 " / 47 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.63
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 8.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.76

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.423
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.94 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.50 ft / 1.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 201.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,571 Square feet or 239 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 16 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 75 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.62
      - Overall: 0.51
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Miscellaneous weight:
2 tons on deck is for 2 x 18 inch fore mounted torpedo tubes with 1 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each (single shot).

Trial Speed: 31 knots

Sokol Class, Russia Torpedo Boat Destroyer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   500 t light; 513 t standard; 592 t normal; 656 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (250.00 ft / 250.00 ft) x 25.00 ft x (8.00 / 8.57 ft)
   (76.20 m / 76.20 m) x 7.62 m  x (2.44 / 2.61 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 24 lbs / 11 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,000 ihp / 6,714 Kw = 26.16 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 143 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   59 - 78

Cost:
   £0.069 million / $0.276 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 0.9 %
      - Guns: 5 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 356 tons, 60.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 135 tons, 22.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 92 tons, 15.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     141 lbs / 64 Kg = 10.4 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.84
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 8.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.415 / 0.428
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.80 ft / 2.99 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,882 Square feet or 361 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 97 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

Miscellaneous weight:
3 tons on deck is for 4 x 18 inch fore mounted torpedo tubes with 1 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each (single shot).

Trial Speed: 29 knots

Monitors.

Vulkan Class, Russia Monitor laid down 1897

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,138 t standard; 3,390 t normal; 3,591 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (240.00 ft / 240.00 ft) x 56.50 ft x (12.50 / 13.15 ft)
   (73.15 m / 73.15 m) x 17.22 m  x (3.81 / 4.01 m)

Armament:
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1897 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,700 lbs / 771 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   156.00 ft / 47.55 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm     84.00 ft / 25.60 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,525 ihp / 1,138 Kw = 11.93 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 452 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   221 - 288

Cost:
   £0.268 million / $1.071 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 261 tons, 7.7 %
      - Guns: 261 tons, 7.7 %
   Armour: 1,393 tons, 41.1 %
      - Belts: 783 tons, 23.1 %
      - Armament: 127 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 405 tons, 12.0 %
      - Conning Towers: 78 tons, 2.3 %
   Machinery: 250 tons, 7.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,096 tons, 32.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 389 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,317 lbs / 2,412 Kg = 6.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.58
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.705
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Average freeboard:      5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 46.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,868 Square feet or 1,010 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 473 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Armored cruisers.

Slava Class, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1895

Displacement:
   7,700 t light; 8,055 t standard; 9,194 t normal; 10,105 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (448.00 ft / 440.00 ft) x 52.00 ft (Bulges 58.00 ft) x (24.00 / 26.04 ft)
   (136.55 m / 134.11 m) x 15.85 m (Bulges 17.68 m)  x (7.32 / 7.94 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 40.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,176 lbs / 987 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   302.00 ft / 92.05 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   138.00 ft / 42.06 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   302.00 ft / 92.05 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,600 ihp / 10,892 Kw = 19.99 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,050 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £0.766 million / $3.063 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 442 tons, 4.8 %
      - Guns: 442 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 2,267 tons, 24.7 %
      - Belts: 1,548 tons, 16.8 %
      - Armament: 276 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 291 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 151 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,475 tons, 26.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,460 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,495 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 56 tons, 0.6 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 36 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,813 lbs / 3,997 Kg = 34.4 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.73

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.525 / 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,605 Square feet or 1,450 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 488 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 3.46 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.
36 tons above deck reserve weight.

Nepobedimyy Class, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1897

Displacement:
   9,600 t light; 10,042 t standard; 11,285 t normal; 12,280 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (458.00 ft / 450.00 ft) x 54.00 ft (Bulges 60.00 ft) x (24.00 / 25.94 ft)
   (139.60 m / 137.16 m) x 16.46 m (Bulges 18.29 m)  x (7.32 / 7.91 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 40.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,176 lbs / 1,441 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   296.00 ft / 90.22 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   154.00 ft / 46.94 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   296.00 ft / 90.22 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,840 ihp / 12,563 Kw = 19.98 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,238 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   546 - 711

Cost:
   £0.950 million / $3.800 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 625 tons, 5.5 %
      - Guns: 625 tons, 5.5 %
   Armour: 3,262 tons, 28.9 %
      - Belts: 2,093 tons, 18.5 %
      - Armament: 451 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 502 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 217 tons, 1.9 %
   Machinery: 2,761 tons, 24.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,870 tons, 25.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,685 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 82 tons, 0.7 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 62 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,994 lbs / 4,987 Kg = 22.0 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.56

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.614
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,931 Square feet or 1,666 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 525 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.59
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 9.24 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 4.62 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.
62 tons above deck reserve weight.