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Jef has lead the way with his great work on Nova Francia, so I invite everyone else to join in.
Whether you intend to use it or not, post you best thoughts on ships for your new navy.
Laydown year 1905-1920..

QuoteLast Pre-Dread Battleship  laid down 1905

Displacement:
   15,238 t light; 16,150 t standard; 17,000 t normal; 17,680 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (450.00 ft / 450.00 ft) x 85.00 ft x (24.00 / 24.81 ft)
   (137.16 m / 137.16 m) x 25.91 m  x (7.32 / 7.56 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 875.00lbs / 396.89kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 7.50" / 191 mm 45.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.51lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      1 raised mount
      Weight of broadside 6,049 lbs / 2,744 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   180.00 ft / 54.86 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,000 ihp / 11,936 Kw = 18.19 kts
   Range 4,578nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,530 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   743 - 967

Cost:
   £1.433 million / $5.733 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,231 tons, 7.2 %
      - Guns: 1,231 tons, 7.2 %
   Armour: 6,046 tons, 35.6 %
      - Belts: 2,884 tons, 17.0 %
      - Armament: 1,543 tons, 9.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,448 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 171 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,319 tons, 13.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,292 tons, 31.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,762 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.1 %
      - Hull below water: 150 tons
      - Hull above water: 150 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,116 lbs / 11,846 Kg = 30.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.83

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.648 / 0.652
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  25.00 ft / 7.62 m,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.74 ft / 6.02 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,252 Square feet or 2,718 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 708 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.14
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Quote4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 875.00lbs / 396.89kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 7.50" / 191 mm 45.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts

12" - 2 x Single mounts on centreline ends... for 4 guns

7"5 - in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides,
choose 12B1x7"5 or 6T2x7"5.

I note that you have not machines guns vs predators...
Heavy armor.

Jef  ;)

Whoops- thought I fixed that; it should be twin mounts.

The 7.5" guns are in twin turrets- 'twin mounts' means that the guns are not individually sleeved and elevate together; a 'two gun mount' is an individually sleeved mount where the guns elevate separately.

Heavy machine guns may or may not be required. ;)

EDIT:
I've fixed the problems you indicated, Jef, and have extended the range a bit and added the HMG's that will fend off predators.

All in all, I think she's a good little pre-dreadnought.

Technically, I think that this is probably weaseling the 'AQX' clause about predreadnought design, since both of the after turrets are supposed to be behind the engine spaces... but that smacks of excessive parallelism anyway, so I'd prefer to at least try this as my starting BB class.

Not that I expect Croatoa to have many of those; their concerns seem to me to either call for cruisers - to cover the coasts of a large mostly empty territory - or coast defense ships, to beat back attacks on strong points.

QuoteShining-class, Croatoa Battleship laid down 1900

Displacement:
   14,774 t light; 15,676 t standard; 16,370 t normal; 16,925 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (433.74 ft / 426.51 ft) x 78.74 ft x (26.25 / 27.00 ft)
   (132.20 m / 130.00 m) x 24.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.23 m)

Armament:
      6 - 13.78" / 350 mm 30.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      36 - 4.92" / 125 mm 40.0 cal guns - 57.32lbs / 26.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     36 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      12 raised mounts
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 9,344 lbs / 4,238 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   298.56 ft / 91.00 m   10.66 ft / 3.25 m
   Ends:   5.91" / 150 mm   127.92 ft / 38.99 m   10.66 ft / 3.25 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      0.98" / 25 mm   298.56 ft / 91.00 m   25.20 ft / 7.68 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      13.8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 16.15 kts
   Range 5,962nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,249 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   723 - 940

Cost:
   £1.271 million / $5.084 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,288 tons, 7.9 %
      - Guns: 1,288 tons, 7.9 %
   Armour: 6,773 tons, 41.4 %
      - Belts: 2,968 tons, 18.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 274 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 1,880 tons, 11.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,268 tons, 7.7 %
      - Conning Towers: 383 tons, 2.3 %
   Machinery: 1,547 tons, 9.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,016 tons, 30.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,596 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.9 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,138 lbs / 11,856 Kg = 20.0 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.93

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.89 ft / 0.88 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.86 ft / 5.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,727 Square feet or 2,390 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 749 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

I not the slow speed, interresting choice to economise weight.


Jef  ;)

I find the choice of L30 guns to be very interesting.

Well, this is an older ship, which will necessarily be slower and mount less capable guns than later designs. Despite the fairly modern layout, she's still a predreadnought, with limitations on things like the machinery available (especially given an emphasis on cruising range and reliability over peak output) and on the muzzle energy that can be gotten out of the available smokeless powders.

Since I'd decided from the get-go to see if I could stick with the same main battery caliber throughout the entire game, that meant that they had to be short, low-velocity guns.

It also meant that, given the choice to go for four-knot 'steps' in ship speed, my choices were essentially 16 knots or 20 knots. I wanted my first dreadnought class to be a step faster than the predreadnoughts, and I don't think that 9x350mm at 24kts is practicable on 25ktons, thus.

Well under the treaty/rules, all ships built after the start of the game cannot mount guns larger then 305mm. Carth and myself will talk about what we want to do about pre-treaty ships, but my inkling is that the treaty limit will be enforced on ships constructed pre-start.

Also, the limit on capital ships at start is currently set at 20ktons

Quote from: snip on April 09, 2012, 05:43:37 PMWell under the treaty/rules, all ships built after the start of the game cannot mount guns larger then 305mm. Carth and myself will talk about what we want to do about pre-treaty ships, but my inkling is that the treaty limit will be enforced on ships constructed pre-start.

That's... irritating. And not how I'd read the rules at all. They'd seemed to me to say that 'battleships' were those vessels carrying at least two guns that size or over.

But given that I wasn't one of the people helping write them, I'll take your word on the intended meeting.

Apparently I won't be starting with battleships, or building them for a good long while, then. That could prove interesting...

Quote from: snip on April 09, 2012, 05:43:37 PMAlso, the limit on capital ships at start is currently set at 20ktons

The successor dreadnought would be laid down after game start, yes.

Unless I'm misreading something else?

To answer your question, an earlyer draft had a hard cap on 305mm guns. I dont know were it went, Carth will have to answer that. So as things stand now, 350mm guns would be legal, but with displament caped at 20ktons, it will be interesting to see how that works. I will talk with Carth to make sure that the ommision of the gun limit was intentional.

*fiddles a bit*

3x2x350mm at 20kts works out fairly neatly, in fact. Scaling protection and secondary armament back to what a battlecruiser fan would be willing to set for might get you 4 main battery turrets. Given the design ethos and fleet concept I'm going for, I won't/can't, but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody else did. 325mm would probably actually be practical.

Yes, I did intend to have the 12" cap on Battleship guns in there.
I (apparently) accidentally removed the clause during the last edit.

I understand that some people might like to go bigger. I would prefer to, even with their poorer performance, go with the USN's 13" guns of the period... but I ran into an issue with this. The 12" gun was the de facto standard for pre-dreadnoughts, and only one nation I can find routinely fielded guns beyond that caliber after 1890- that being the United States Navy, and then only in two classes.

The Treaty is able to be modified- and I'm sure that the FIRST change will be to allow larger guns for battleships. I intended this to a degree- hoping to ensure some RP interaction regarding the treaty... much in the same way that the intentional forbidding of aircraft carriers and submarines was planned to do so.

The treaty was not altered in 1910 after the second 5-year cycle... so there will be a vote on changes in 2 game years, which will be a relatively short time. It will basically allow a period for everyone to build up fleets and plan for the future. The we can vote on what we want to change then.

After that- ships are only limited by the whims of the majority, and Devil take the hindmost.

Mmm. Yeah, what I'm intending to do is see if I can get through the entire game without ever changing my 'Main Battery' calibers, and trying to do that with 30cm would be far more of a gamble than I can square with myself. 35cm might be a bit small to tangle with a 16" or 18" ship, but it's at least within spitting distance, which 30cm wouldn't be.

But I should be able to get through the early phase with only PDNs, so I'm good.

Well, here's another try at a 'fleet centerpiece' vessel for the starting formation. I'm less sure about this design, honestly. I may end up going back and seeing what needs to be sacrificed to get better range.


Anyway.

QuoteHand-class, Croatoa Frigate laid down 1905

Displacement:
   13,187 t light; 14,123 t standard; 15,012 t normal; 15,723 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (565.26 ft / 557.74 ft) x 65.62 ft x (26.25 / 27.22 ft)
   (172.29 m / 170.00 m) x 20.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.30 m)

Armament:
      6 - 8.86" / 225 mm 40.0 cal guns - 440.92lbs / 200.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      20 - 4.92" / 125 mm 50.0 cal guns - 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      10 raised mounts
      10 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      10 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,974 lbs / 1,802 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   195.18 ft / 59.49 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,000 ihp / 14,920 Kw = 20.39 kts
   Range 3,600nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,600 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   677 - 881

Cost:
   £1.097 million / $4.389 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 741 tons, 4.9 %
      - Guns: 741 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 5,222 tons, 34.8 %
      - Belts: 3,562 tons, 23.7 %
      - Armament: 782 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 749 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 129 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,870 tons, 19.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,204 tons, 28.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,826 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.0 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,536 lbs / 8,408 Kg = 53.3 x 8.9 " / 225 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.63

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.547 / 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.89 ft / 0.88 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  26.25 ft / 8.00 m,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.55 ft / 5.66 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,469 Square feet or 2,366 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 560 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.51
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

To answer your question regarding range. Cut some belt. Speed is good, the main guns leave a little be desired IMO, but that belt is just way to thick for an AC. I would say cut it back to about 200mm or so and throw the strength into range instead.

Comparing her to my own Faith's (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5793.msg75307.html#msg75307) (an altered Rurik II) she is a bit under-guned as those 225mm guns are going to have a harder time penetrating armor at range then the 254mm guns on the Faith. Given your belt the difficulty is likely to be mutual, but I digress. I understand the want of an AQY, but in this case I think it would be better served to go for larger guns in AY twins. That alone would make me more willing to go with the already given armor. Cutting back on the armor, adding to range, and upping the main guns in caliber and reducing number will create a warship which could give any OTL AC a serious run for its money.

Hmmm. Let's try this, then... You've got a good point about the gun size, but I'm reluctant to compromise armor too much, given the absence of anything heavier in Croatoa's inventory. The range still isn't quite where I'd like it, but it's solid, and the punch is hard to argue with. I'd already been considering going for a BB-range tonnage rather than an HC one, and using the mass for range, speed, and a relative forest of 250mm guns, but cramming them into 15 ktons is actually pretty workable.

QuoteHand-class, Croatoa Frigate laid down 1905

Displacement:
   12,811 t light; 13,780 t standard; 15,000 t normal; 15,976 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (565.26 ft / 557.74 ft) x 65.62 ft x (26.25 / 27.59 ft)
   (172.29 m / 170.00 m) x 20.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.41 m)

Armament:
      6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 40.0 cal guns - 496.04lbs / 225.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      20 - 4.92" / 125 mm 50.0 cal guns - 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      10 raised mounts
      10 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      10 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,305 lbs / 1,953 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.86" / 225 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   195.18 ft / 59.49 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Upper:   2.95" / 75 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.86" / 225 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,000 ihp / 14,920 Kw = 20.39 kts
   Range 5,067nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,195 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   677 - 881

Cost:
   £1.146 million / $4.582 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 922 tons, 6.1 %
      - Guns: 922 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 4,717 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 3,087 tons, 20.6 %
      - Armament: 765 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 749 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 116 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,870 tons, 19.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,152 tons, 27.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,189 tons, 14.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.0 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,742 lbs / 8,047 Kg = 37.2 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.63

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.547 / 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.89 ft / 0.88 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  26.25 ft / 8.00 m,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.55 ft / 5.66 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,459 Square feet or 2,365 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 567 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Now that is an AC worth its salt. * debates altering the Faith's to accommodate two more 254mm guns*

A design for a long-ranged armored cruiser with a good armor scheme and good armor protection... though a bit deficient in armament. The shallower draft is intentional as I don't plan on having all my ports having deep harbors.

Something like H.M.S. Powerful, though not quite as powerful.

Armored Cruiser #10,  laid down 1900

Displacement:
   8,610 t light; 9,100 t standard; 10,000 t normal; 10,720 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (500.00 ft / 500.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.40 ft)
   (152.40 m / 152.40 m) x 15.24 m  x (7.32 / 7.74 m)

Armament:
      2 - 9.20" / 234 mm 45.0 cal guns - 400.00lbs / 181.44kg shells, 175 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 350 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 400 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      12 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,850 lbs / 839 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   150.00 ft / 45.72 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 18,000 ihp / 13,428 Kw = 21.05 kts
   Range 6,270nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,620 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   499 - 650

Cost:
   £0.825 million / $3.301 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 403 tons, 4.0 %
      - Guns: 403 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 2,575 tons, 25.8 %
      - Belts: 1,617 tons, 16.2 %
      - Armament: 239 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 619 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 100 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,813 tons, 28.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,584 tons, 25.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,390 tons, 13.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 235 tons, 2.4 %
      - Hull below water: 90 tons
      - Hull above water: 90 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 55 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,412 lbs / 4,269 Kg = 24.2 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.99

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.583 / 0.591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  26.00 ft / 7.92 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forward deck:   50.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.66 ft / 5.69 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,002 Square feet or 1,672 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 419 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.78
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

AC No. 10:

- I'm not enthralled with the 'two finisher guns' layout, but I suppose it's a reasonable choice.
- The secondaries are all forward, which is fine, but how does that interact with the tertiaries being fully spread?
- The MGs, of course, are raised on the superstructure
- 5" belt and such feels a little light to me, but I know that I overemphasize armor, and the deck is very solid.
- The decks are consistently 7', as I read it, with a 1' space for the armor deck and a 3' one for the keel?
- *notes location of midbreak* ...Ah, that makes the secondaries make more sense, but I'm still not sure where the 3" are supposed to go.

Quote from: Valles on April 11, 2012, 09:19:35 PM
AC No. 10:

- I'm not enthralled with the 'two finisher guns' layout, but I suppose it's a reasonable choice.
- The secondaries are all forward, which is fine, but how does that interact with the tertiaries being fully spread?
- The MGs, of course, are raised on the superstructure
- 5" belt and such feels a little light to me, but I know that I overemphasize armor, and the deck is very solid.
- The decks are consistently 7', as I read it, with a 1' space for the armor deck and a 3' one for the keel?
- *notes location of midbreak* ...Ah, that makes the secondaries make more sense, but I'm still not sure where the 3" are supposed to go.

1.) Yeah- I would have liked three guns (twin and single) but there wasn't enough tonnage. You'll see where it goes when my last armored cruiser comes around.
2.) Well, the tertiaries mean that there are a couple which are in the wrong sites! :P I meant to have the four aft-most elevated, but forgot to have that show.
3.) Yep- though the aftmost 4 will need to be double-raised mounts.
4.) That's wrong; the armored deck should be a single deck- with a consistent 8' deck height and a 3'ish keel. If I had done the armored deck right, then it would have made sense. For future reference, that is the layout that all my ships over destroyer size have.
5.) Yeah... I'll fix that.

The late 'flagship' of my starting navy- a monstrously large cruiser, bristling with weaponry and of a completely outdated style. If you can catch it, you probably won't be able to kill it. Then again, it's one of those cases where the designers 'forgot' the heavy guns, and though it has a good steaming range, a good turn of speed and carries an ample supply of ammunition... it is still just a broadside cruiser with chasers trying to live in a world of turreted cruisers.

Also, because of her sheer size, she winds up classed as a 'heavy' cruiser rather than a 'medium' one- and this means that she is not just outdated compared to her contemporaries... she is completely under-gunned.

Quote laid down 1895
Armoured Frigate (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   10,312 t light; 11,100 t standard; 12,000 t normal; 12,720 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (475.00 ft / 475.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.11 ft)
   (144.78 m / 144.78 m) x 21.34 m  x (7.32 / 7.65 m)

Armament:
      4 - 7.50" / 191 mm 45.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 7.50" / 191 mm 45.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      12 - 7.50" / 191 mm 45.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts on upper deck- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 400 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      20 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.51lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,802 lbs / 1,725 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   334.00 ft / 101.80 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   141.00 ft / 42.98 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   310.00 ft / 94.49 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm         -         3.00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 18,000 ihp / 13,428 Kw = 20.29 kts
   Range 5,245nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,620 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   573 - 745

Cost:
   £1.020 million / $4.079 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 665 tons, 5.5 %
      - Guns: 665 tons, 5.5 %
   Armour: 3,147 tons, 26.2 %
      - Belts: 1,765 tons, 14.7 %
      - Armament: 141 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,172 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 68 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 3,051 tons, 25.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,329 tons, 27.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,688 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 1.0 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 20 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,140 lbs / 5,507 Kg = 57.6 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.49
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.66

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.526 / 0.533
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.79 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  28.00 ft / 8.53 m,  28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      21.20 ft / 6.46 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,697 Square feet or 2,109 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 549 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

With the 15000t cruiser limit, we are going to have this kind of powerful cruisers.

Jef

Well, that's the only one of its kind in my fleet.
The next ship will be very much a reduced vessel... and a more practical one.

A large gunboat, useful for colonial duties...


laid down 1900

Displacement:
   1,433 t light; 1,500 t standard; 1,750 t normal; 1,950 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (300.00 ft / 300.00 ft) x 35.00 ft x (12.00 / 13.01 ft)
   (91.44 m / 91.44 m) x 10.67 m  x (3.66 / 3.97 m)

Armament:
      2 - 4.75" / 121 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      20 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.50lbs / 0.68kg shells, 800 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 178 lbs / 81 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,000 ihp / 2,984 Kw = 18.15 kts
   Range 5,185nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 450 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   134 - 175

Cost:
   £0.148 million / $0.590 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 35 tons, 2.0 %
      - Guns: 35 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 158 tons, 9.1 %
      - Armament: 20 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 129 tons, 7.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 625 tons, 35.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 565 tons, 32.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 317 tons, 18.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.9 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,722 lbs / 781 Kg = 32.1 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.58
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 9.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.486 / 0.499
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.20 ft / 4.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 125.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,908 Square feet or 642 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs/sq ft or 237 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Not large, but medium.
I study large (3000t) with landing possibilities.

Jef  ;)

I am very confused by the treaty limitations on gun caliber and amount. But in any case, I attempted to sim a cruiser.

Quote001 Class, New World Armored Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   8,700 t light; 9,147 t standard; 10,000 t normal; 10,682 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (480.00 ft / 480.00 ft) x 52.00 ft x (23.00 / 24.30 ft)
   (146.30 m / 146.30 m) x 15.85 m  x (7.01 / 7.41 m)

Armament:
      6 - 9.00" / 229 mm 50.0 cal guns - 385.87lbs / 175.03kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 66.16lbs / 30.01kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,115 lbs / 1,413 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   381.00 ft / 116.13 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm     99.00 ft / 30.18 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.17" / 233 mm   3.50" / 89 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 18,231 ihp / 13,600 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,535 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   499 - 650

Cost:
   £1.029 million / $4.115 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 923 tons, 9.2 %
      - Guns: 923 tons, 9.2 %
   Armour: 2,636 tons, 26.4 %
      - Belts: 1,494 tons, 14.9 %
      - Armament: 385 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 687 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 70 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,849 tons, 28.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,293 tons, 22.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,300 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,547 lbs / 2,516 Kg = 15.2 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,421 Square feet or 1,711 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 491 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.01
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room

Still confused but in any case... increased the caliber of the main battery to par with heavy cruisers. Reduced speed by a knot to gain better armor on belt and turret.

Quote001 Class, New World Armored Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   8,653 t light; 9,147 t standard; 10,000 t normal; 10,682 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (480.00 ft / 480.00 ft) x 52.00 ft x (23.00 / 24.30 ft)
   (146.30 m / 146.30 m) x 15.85 m  x (7.01 / 7.41 m)

Armament:
      6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 504.32lbs / 228.75kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 66.16lbs / 30.01kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,825 lbs / 1,735 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   354.00 ft / 107.90 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   126.00 ft / 38.40 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   3.50" / 89 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.50" / 38 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15,177 ihp / 11,322 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,535 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   499 - 650

Cost:
   £1.034 million / $4.136 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,139 tons, 11.4 %
      - Guns: 1,139 tons, 11.4 %
   Armour: 2,840 tons, 28.4 %
      - Belts: 1,624 tons, 16.2 %
      - Armament: 458 tons, 4.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 687 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 70 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,371 tons, 23.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,303 tons, 23.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,347 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,267 lbs / 2,843 Kg = 13.2 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.88
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,426 Square feet or 1,712 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 106 lbs/sq ft or 515 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.01
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room

You have a very low freeboard- 11ft - 3.35m...


Jef

It was a trade-off to get +0.1-0.2 composite strength. I'll see if I can increase it without sacrificing too much though - any other comments?

Have a low freeboard decrease the survibality.
As I can see, your AC survivability is equal to a CL
My EC 6000t Delome is 3808kg...

Jef

Increased freeboard a bit, raised survivability from 2,843 kg to 3,189 kg. It's difficult to get more survivability without reducing the armament or speed. More survivability will require significant reworking of the ship.

Quote001 Class, New World Armored Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   8,709 t light; 9,146 t standard; 10,000 t normal; 10,683 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (480.00 ft / 480.00 ft) x 53.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.32 ft)
   (146.30 m / 146.30 m) x 16.15 m  x (7.32 / 7.72 m)

Armament:
      6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 504.32lbs / 228.75kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 66.16lbs / 30.01kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,825 lbs / 1,735 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.49" / 190 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.50" / 89 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15,071 ihp / 11,243 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,537 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   499 - 650

Cost:
   £1.034 million / $4.134 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,139 tons, 11.4 %
      - Guns: 1,139 tons, 11.4 %
   Armour: 2,737 tons, 27.4 %
      - Belts: 1,517 tons, 15.2 %
      - Armament: 473 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 677 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 70 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,355 tons, 23.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,478 tons, 24.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,291 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,031 lbs / 3,189 Kg = 14.8 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.573 / 0.581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.20 ft / 4.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,146 Square feet or 1,686 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 529 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Recoil: 0.87 ,
Hull is stressed. too much mechanical constraints:

Reduce lenght & increase beam to about 18m
Reduce draught.


Jef

Logi- if you don't understand... ASK! Here or in PM, and I'll be happy to try to explain. The gun caliber restrictions were to make sure that 'British' style cruisers (massive QF batteries with 'Closers') got classified in the right spots.

Now, for something ugly:
People are getting very liberal with A-Q-Y layouts.
I hoped that wouldn't happen... now I know why Rocky restricted it a bit in N-verse 3. Guys- as of now- if there isn't a bit more restraint in the use of the A-Q-Y layout, I'm going to post some more restrictions (which I had hoped to avoid), making it available only to Battleships, Heavy and Medium cruisers.

I want this to be as 'restriction free' as it can be... but I also don't want 'clustering' of designs to only a single pattern. Even with the Treaty restrictions, there is a lot we can do to be creative. I don't know why A-Q-Y seems to be the prefered choice.

Ok Carth, a few questions:
1) What does my current simmed cruiser classify as?
2) What does it matter if a ship is by treaty classified as heavy, medium, or light cruiser? Are they restricted in total allocated tonnage (aka only 50k total tonnage worth of heavy cruisers).
3) What is the tech level here? No superfiring, all centerline, triples/quadruples, etc.

I'm treading towards A-Q-Y for the time being because I design ships with a huge emphasis on firepower. Since A-Q-Y allows more firepower to bear, naturally that is the design I am inclined to go towards until I find a better one.

Reduced length and increased beam, lowered recoil to 0.68 from 0.87

Quote001 Class, New World Armored Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   8,718 t light; 9,155 t standard; 10,000 t normal; 10,676 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 56.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.30 ft)
   (140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 17.07 m  x (7.32 / 7.71 m)

Armament:
      6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 504.33lbs / 228.76kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 66.16lbs / 30.01kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,825 lbs / 1,735 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.56" / 192 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   120.00 ft / 36.58 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.50" / 89 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15,296 ihp / 11,411 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,520 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   499 - 650

Cost:
   £1.039 million / $4.155 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,139 tons, 11.4 %
      - Guns: 1,139 tons, 11.4 %
   Armour: 2,713 tons, 27.1 %
      - Belts: 1,489 tons, 14.9 %
      - Armament: 473 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 681 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 70 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,390 tons, 23.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,476 tons, 24.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,282 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,164 lbs / 3,250 Kg = 15.0 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.566 / 0.573
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.20 ft / 4.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,252 Square feet or 1,696 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 539 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.40
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Logi - first off, wing turrets were in common use during this time period, and would give even more firepower.
Additionally, your ship is A-Q-Y- and turreted secondaries; that isn't on the list of choices. You can have A-Q-Y, you can have 'intermediate battery' or you can have QF secondaries... you can't have them all in one ship.

Quote5.) All ships are to  be of pre-dread type- with twin main gun turrets and either 'secondary battery', 'intermediate battery' OR 'AQY twins' layouts. Ships must have main and end belts- AoN armor is not allowed; upper belts are optional, but wise in some designs.

You can't have the ships combining both features... A-Q-Y has to have casemated secondaries, if it has 'secondaries' at all (no historic A-Q-Y had any that i can recall).

Next:
1.) This ship would classify as a HEAVY CRUISER, because in spite of tonnage, it mounts a gun caliber that is restricted to Heavy Cruiser. Similarly, my 7.5" cruiser posted HERE (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5790.msg75374.html#msg75374) is a HEAVY CRUISER because of her tonnage, in spite of mounting a gun caliber allowed by a Medium Cruiser.
2.) Originally, they were to be restricted in tonnage; they may still be so restricted- though not at startup. The classifications were to make any WNT/LNT-style limitations easier in the future. ALSO, it gives more types of cruisers, so we aren't as restricted in design options as we would have been under the WNT treaty standards.
3.) Tech level as it previously existed in N3 isn't being used here. The allowable ship layouts for startup are detailed IN THIS POST (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5791.msg75278.html#msg75278h) in the rules thread: . Twin turrets are all that are allowed ATM.

The Treaty will be up for amendment after two in-game years... meaning if you want bigger guns, triple turrets, etc, then you have to stump for the rule changes in-game in a Conference and convince everyone that your changes won't break the game.

Just so I understand properly - If you have AQY layout you can't have intermediate battery. If you have intermediate and QF secondaries you are restricted to two twin main gun turrets. Is that the case?

I used turreted secondaries mainly because I partially based the secondaries on Snip's Faith class. I decreased from 6" to 5" so I thought it should be predesignated as Quickfire. So the designation Quick Fire has weight in N4.5 now? - previously it was just fluff.

I struck off wing turrets immediately in design for 2 reasons: 1) They are extremely ugly IMO, 2) They drain excessive composite strength. Or rather would in a real design.

Also there is currently no consequence to the classifications except for capital ships?

Funky gun arrangement. A-Q-Y with staggered wing turrets. Since it's officially a heavy cruiser, I lifted my hard cap of 10,000 tons to allow more firepower and survivability.

Quote001 Class, New World Armored Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   11,066 t light; 11,680 t standard; 13,000 t normal; 14,056 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (520.00 ft / 520.00 ft) x 62.00 ft x (25.00 / 26.62 ft)
   (158.50 m / 158.50 m) x 18.90 m  x (7.62 / 8.11 m)

Armament:
      10 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 530.00lbs / 240.40kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 5,300 lbs / 2,404 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   355.00 ft / 108.20 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   165.00 ft / 50.29 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.78" / 223 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 17,406 ihp / 12,985 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,376 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   608 - 791

Cost:
   £1.292 million / $5.168 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,556 tons, 12.0 %
      - Guns: 1,556 tons, 12.0 %
   Armour: 3,633 tons, 27.9 %
      - Belts: 1,967 tons, 15.1 %
      - Armament: 711 tons, 5.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 851 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 105 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,720 tons, 20.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,157 tons, 24.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,934 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,665 lbs / 4,837 Kg = 22.4 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.565 / 0.573
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.16 ft / 4.01 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,808 Square feet or 2,119 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 582 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

more then six main caliber guns, so no. This design will not be allowed.

So there's a hard cap on 6 main caliber guns?  Don't really see how much creative process can be put then. It seems to me everything is limited. Or perhaps - it's just my style of designing ships that is in fierce conflict with these limits.

With a 6 max cap you can't even design a ship to have 2 centerline twins and wing turrets - because that's 8 main guns.

Quote from: Logi on April 19, 2012, 04:00:38 PM
So there's a hard cap on 6 main caliber guns?  Don't really see how much creative process can be put then. It seems to me everything is limited. Or perhaps - it's just my style of designing ships that is in fierce conflict with these limits.

With a 6 max cap you can't even design a ship to have 2 centerline twins and wing turrets - because that's 8 main guns.

True, but you can build it if the wing turrets have a slightly smaller caliber, because than it would be a design with 'intermediate' guns, right? Otherwise it would be dreadnought.

Quote from: Nobody on April 19, 2012, 04:14:09 PM

Quote from: Logi on April 19, 2012, 04:00:38 PM
So there's a hard cap on 6 main caliber guns?  Don't really see how much creative process can be put then. It seems to me everything is limited. Or perhaps - it's just my style of designing ships that is in fierce conflict with these limits.

With a 6 max cap you can't even design a ship to have 2 centerline twins and wing turrets - because that's 8 main guns.

True, but you can build it if the wing turrets have a slightly smaller caliber, because than it would be a design with 'intermediate' guns, right? Otherwise it would be dreadnought.

Correct, tho Carth would have more on this then I do This limit only applies for pre-start ships. Dreadnaughts will be available right of the bat for construction at game start.

I have little to say that hasn't already been said. If you want to arrive at dreadnought level tech via the 'heavier weight of shell' route- which is, coincidentally, the route I am taking- then a Satsuma type layout with 2x2x12" with 4x2x10" intermediate secondaries would be the way to go. For those seeking the 'long rang gunnary' route, the A-Q-Y layout was put into play. The 'quick fire secondaries' (which doesnt nesessarially mean QF guns per se) is just the status quo. Alternate layouts that are more restrictive- like six single main gun turrets, three on either beam which cannot cross-deck- may be proposed for use and if there are no arguments, may be allowed.

Ok I got an understanding. So the old ships start at 1895 and the sim starts at 1910 - already into dreadnought tech?

all ships layed down prior to the start of the game must be pre-dreads. Dreadnaughts will be able to have there keels layed on 1/1/3910

Got invited and with a free summer ahead figured I might give this iteration of N-verse a shot. Haven't downloaded SS3 yet so trying out the rules on SS2.

Hound, Wolfistan Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   9,999 t light; 10,693 t standard; 11,411 t normal; 11,986 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   420.00 ft / 420.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 24.70 ft (normal load)
   128.02 m / 128.02 m x 21.34 m  x 7.53 m

Armament:
      4 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,098.50lbs / 498.27kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 7.00" / 178 mm guns (2x2 guns), 171.50lbs / 77.79kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      20 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 5,410 lbs / 2,454 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   170.00 ft / 51.82 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17,451 shp / 13,018 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 4,300nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,292 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   551 - 717

Cost:
   £1.120 million / $4.478 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 676 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 3,493 tons, 30.6 %
      - Belts: 1,596 tons, 14.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,138 tons, 10.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 759 tons, 6.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,440 tons, 12.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,289 tons, 37.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,413 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,666 lbs / 5,292 Kg = 10.6 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.86 ft / 4.53 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,518 Square feet or 1,906 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 702 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 2.08
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Guns for the start are going to be limited to 305mm, that limit was accidently deleted from the posted rules (unless Carth has changed his mind on this). Designs really need to be in SS3 as the caliber specifications can make-or-break some of these designs.

Foxy... the hard cap on battleship guns is 12" for everyone. We had to set some kind of limit, and as this was the de facto standard for pre-dreads, thats where we set it. I think that is mentioned in this thread somewhere, and if I neglected to  put it in the design rules thread, then I will remedy that when I get home. If you want to start designing ships, go to the Springsharp site and dl SS3. You can't 'practice' in SS2 because they are too different... it is SS3 or nuthin.

From the Treaty/Rules Document:

QuoteSection 4.01   Battleships
   A Battleship shall, for the purposes of this treaty, heretofore be classified by the following qualifications. Any ship meeting one of these qualifications shall be termed a Battleship and shall count against tonnage allocated for Battleships, even if it does not meet all the qualifications.
(a)   a vessel with four or more guns of no greater than 12"/305mm.

Sort of a 2nd Class BB...

laid down 1895

Displacement:
   8,644 t light; 9,050 t standard; 9,750 t normal; 10,310 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (375.00 ft / 375.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (20.00 / 20.97 ft)
   (114.30 m / 114.30 m) x 21.34 m  x (6.10 / 6.39 m)

Armament:
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 874.99lbs / 396.89kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      6 - 7.50" / 191 mm 45.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.51lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,024 lbs / 1,372 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   145.00 ft / 44.20 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,600 ihp / 8,654 Kw = 18.01 kts
   Range 4,600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,260 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   489 - 637

Cost:
   £0.865 million / $3.461 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 723 tons, 7.4 %
      - Guns: 723 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 2,913 tons, 29.9 %
      - Belts: 1,545 tons, 15.8 %
      - Armament: 767 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 522 tons, 5.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 79 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,966 tons, 20.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,982 tons, 30.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,106 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 0.6 %
      - Hull below water: 25 tons
      - Hull above water: 25 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,470 lbs / 5,656 Kg = 14.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.65

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.655
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.36 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Aft deck:   32.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   19.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.14 ft / 5.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,109 Square feet or 1,868 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 586 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Ahhhh!!! SS3 is monstrous! Missed that limit, time to learn SS3.

A light BB, chose A-Q-X really because A-Q-X is 6 main guns and having a decent sized immediately battery in winged turrets for A-X main battery requires too much weight (18 kton).

Edit: Forgot to add light secondary (it would have been an all-big-gun ship otherwise). +200 tons on normal load.

Quote002 Project, New World Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   10,436 t light; 10,971 t standard; 11,800 t normal; 12,464 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (380.00 ft / 380.00 ft) x 68.00 ft x (27.00 / 28.24 ft)
   (115.82 m / 115.82 m) x 20.73 m  x (8.23 / 8.61 m)

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 899.99lbs / 408.23kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 5,658 lbs / 2,566 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   198.00 ft / 60.35 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   182.00 ft / 55.47 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 80 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   7.50" / 191 mm      13.2" / 335 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         4.00" / 102 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm  Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13.40" / 340 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,991 ihp / 7,453 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,493 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   565 - 735

Cost:
   £1.027 million / $4.108 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 831 tons, 7.0 %
      - Guns: 831 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 4,356 tons, 36.9 %
      - Belts: 2,043 tons, 17.3 %
      - Armament: 1,114 tons, 9.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,049 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 150 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 1,693 tons, 14.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,555 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,364 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,365 lbs / 6,062 Kg = 15.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.592 / 0.598
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.59 ft / 4.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,757 Square feet or 1,743 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 678 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.47
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Ok tried my hand at SS3 but doing something wrong. Anyone know why I keep getting 0.00 CS?


Wolf, Wolfistan Heavy Cruiser laid down 1905
DESIGN FAILURE: Ship will capsize

Displacement:
   7,732 t light; 8,283 t standard; 12,500 t normal; 15,874 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (509.10 ft / 500.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (25.00 / 30.06 ft)
   (155.17 m / 152.40 m) x 21.34 m  x (7.62 / 9.16 m)

Armament:
      5 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 504.26lbs / 228.73kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      10 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      20 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     10 x 2-gun mounts layout not set
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,162 lbs / 1,434 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      12 - 20.0" / 508 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 1.053 t each, 12.641 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes
      Mines
      50 - 500.00 lbs / 226.80 kg mines - 11.161 t total
   in Above water - Stern racks/rails

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   150.00 ft / 45.72 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 17,042 shp / 12,714 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,591 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   590 - 768

Cost:
   £0.764 million / $3.057 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 911 tons, 7.3 %
      - Guns: 872 tons, 7.0 %
      - Weapons: 39 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 3,127 tons, 25.0 %
      - Belts: 1,194 tons, 9.6 %
      - Armament: 755 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,143 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,406 tons, 11.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,088 tons, 16.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,768 tons, 38.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.6 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 150 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     0 lbs / 0 Kg = 0.0 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 0.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.00
   Metacentric height -2.9 ft / -0.9 m
   Roll period: NaN seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): Infinity
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.528
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  25.00 ft / 7.62 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.40 ft / 6.22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,320 Square feet or 2,166 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 346 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.00
      - Longitudinal: 0.00
      - Overall: NaN
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Because you didnt set the gun layout. That is a seperate dropdown. Also, no turbines in starting ships.

at least starting ships of that size. I though Light Cruiser and below could?

Light cruisers- we'll have to discuss that.
Most did have VTE, but some had turbines.
Perhaps light cruisers and below after 1900... no earlier.
Also, Foxy, the layout is distinctly dreadnought; there aren't to be any superfiring main turrets- and the superfiring secondaries are assumed to be a very limiting addition, similar to those on Virginia class BBs and that battleship class that starts with a K.

I did set the gun layout. Checked everything not sure why SS3 is frieking out.

Wolf, Wolfistan Heavy Cruiser laid down 1905
DESIGN FAILURE: Ship will capsize

Displacement:
   10,540 t light; 11,091 t standard; 12,500 t normal; 13,628 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (509.10 ft / 500.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (25.00 / 26.69 ft)
   (155.17 m / 152.40 m) x 21.34 m  x (7.62 / 8.14 m)

Armament:
      5 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 504.26lbs / 228.73kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      10 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      20 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     10 x 2-gun mounts layout not set
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,162 lbs / 1,434 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      12 - 20.0" / 508 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 1.053 t each, 12.641 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes
      Mines
      50 - 500.00 lbs / 226.80 kg mines - 11.161 t total
   in Above water - Stern racks/rails

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   150.00 ft / 45.72 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 17,042 ihp / 12,714 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,537 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   590 - 768

Cost:
   £1.008 million / $4.032 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 911 tons, 7.3 %
      - Guns: 872 tons, 7.0 %
      - Weapons: 39 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 3,066 tons, 24.5 %
      - Belts: 1,194 tons, 9.6 %
      - Armament: 694 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,143 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,445 tons, 19.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,917 tons, 31.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,960 tons, 15.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.6 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 150 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     0 lbs / 0 Kg = 0.0 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 0.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.00
   Metacentric height -2.9 ft / -0.9 m
   Roll period: NaN seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): Infinity
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  25.00 ft / 7.62 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.40 ft / 6.22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,320 Square feet or 2,166 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 588 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.00
      - Longitudinal: 0.00
      - Overall: NaN
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Ok, Foxy...

You have several warnings that might be displaying.
Check the 'Beam Between Bulkheads' setting on the Armor tab.... that one sneaks in a lot.

Second- no ship till WWII had that kind of torpedo armament.
PLEASE, don't tempt fate right out of the starting gate.

Only real problems I have with the design:
1.) Unrealistic amount of torpedoes; no large ship had torp armament like that till the Japanese torpedo cruisers.
2.) Large mags for the 10" guns and very small ones for the 5" guns; drop some main gun shells for some more secondary gun ammo.
3.) The belts aren't tall enough- water/wave interaction might be an issue... I'm no engineer, but it might be something you need to check.

A design for an early 2nd class Torpedo Boat- she has appreciable guns armament for her size, a powerful load of torpedoes (2 either beam, one over the stern) and a very good turn of speed for the day. The 30 knot trial speed would probably be restricted to days with less than 3 foot seas, but with a relative Seakeeping of 0.89, they are still good seaboats for such a small craft.

They would be designed for the coastal areas in the between Continent #1 and Continent #2, and the 'bight' between the lower and upper part of Continent #1 (where I'm planning to settle if possible).

Torpedo Ram #20,  Torpedo Boat laid down 1900

Displacement:
   267 t light; 280 t standard; 300 t normal; 316 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (200.00 ft / 200.00 ft) x 18.00 ft x (6.00 / 6.24 ft)
   (60.96 m / 60.96 m) x 5.49 m  x (1.83 / 1.90 m)

Armament:
      1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1900 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm 45.0 cal guns - 5.00lbs / 2.27kg shells, 400 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 33 lbs / 15 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m torpedoes - 0.600 t each, 2.401 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      1 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m torpedo - 0.600 t total
   In a deck mounted carriage/fixed tube

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,600 ihp / 4,178 Kw = 25.00 kts/30.00 kts trial speed
   Range 1,136nm at 10.00 kts
   Range 90 nm at 25.00 kts
   Range 735 nm at 10.00 kts with 24 nm at 25.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 36 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   35 - 46

Cost:
   £0.037 million / $0.147 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 10 tons, 3.2 %
      - Guns: 6 tons, 2.0 %
      - Weapons: 4 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 184 tons, 61.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 71 tons, 23.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 33 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 1.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     68 lbs / 31 Kg = 5.1 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.50
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 8.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.89

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.486 / 0.493
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -14.05 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  9.25 ft / 2.82 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  9.25 ft / 2.82 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.83 ft / 2.39 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 204.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,368 Square feet or 220 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 17 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 16 lbs/sq ft or 80 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.38
      - Overall: 0.55
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Rats, forgot to do the torps in meters.
Editing now.

FIXED.

@Carthaginian
With that amount of guns, isn't it more like a destroyer than a torpedo boat?


QUESTION:
With a small patrol boat like this you're likely to have some reserves, what would you do with that?

• a) build them to excessive hull strength
  
• b) use 'paper' armor (which I did)
  
• c) declare them as misc weight
  
• d) something else?
  
  
  
  PB1, Patrol Boat laid down 1900
  
  Displacement:
     94 t light; 97 t standard; 100 t normal; 103 t full load
  
  Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
     (82,02 ft / 82,02 ft) x 16,40 ft x (4,92 / 5,02 ft)
     (25,00 m / 25,00 m) x 5,00 m  x (1,50 / 1,53 m)
  
  Armament:
        1 - 1,97" / 50,0 mm 45,0 cal gun - 3,85lbs / 1,74kg shells, 200 per gun
       Breech loading gun in deck and hoist mount, 1900 Model
       1 x Single mount on centreline forward
        5 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 25,0 cal guns - 1,40lbs / 0,64kg shells, 150 per gun
       Quick firing guns in deck mount, 1900 Model
       1 x Quintuple mount on centreline aft
        3 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm 80,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1.500 per gun
       Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
       2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
        2 raised mounts
       1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
        1 raised mount
        Weight of broadside 11 lbs / 5 kg
  
  Armour:
     - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
     Main:   0,47" / 12 mm     65,62 ft / 20,00 m   6,89 ft / 2,10 m
     Ends:   0,31" / 8 mm     16,40 ft / 5,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Upper:   0,31" / 8 mm     49,21 ft / 15,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
       Main Belt covers 123% of normal length
  
     - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
     Main:   0,79" / 20 mm         -         1,57" / 40 mm
     2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
  
     - Conning towers: Forward 0,79" / 20 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm
  
  Machinery:
     Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
     Direct drive, 1 shaft, 200 ihp / 149 Kw = 11,51 kts
     Range 500nm at 8,00 kts
     Bunker at max displacement = 6 tons (100% coal)
  
  Complement:
     15 - 20
  
  Cost:
     £0,008 million / $0,034 million
  
  Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
     Armament: 2 tons, 2,3%
        - Guns: 2 tons, 2,3%
     Armour: 20 tons, 19,9%
        - Belts: 17 tons, 16,6%
        - Armament: 3 tons, 2,9%
        - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,4%
     Machinery: 31 tons, 31,3%
     Hull, fittings & equipment: 40 tons, 40,3%
     Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6 tons, 6,3%
     Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%
  
  Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
     Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
       151 lbs / 69 Kg = 39,7 x 2,0 " / 50 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
     Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32
     Metacentric height 0,5 ft / 0,2 m
     Roll period: 9,4 seconds
     Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
           - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,22
     Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00
  
  Hull form characteristics:
     Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
       a normal bow and a cruiser stern
     Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,529 / 0,531
     Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
     'Natural speed' for length: 9,06 kts
     Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
     Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
     Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
     Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
     Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
              Fore end,    Aft end
        - Forecastle:   25,00%,  12,60 ft / 3,84 m,  10,30 ft / 3,14 m
        - Forward deck:   35,00%,  10,30 ft / 3,14 m,  10,30 ft / 3,14 m
        - Aft deck:   20,00%,  5,15 ft / 1,57 m,  5,15 ft / 1,57 m
        - Quarter deck:   20,00%,  5,15 ft / 1,57 m,  5,15 ft / 1,57 m
        - Average freeboard:      8,47 ft / 2,58 m
  
  Ship space, strength and comments:
     Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109,1%
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95,2%
     Waterplane Area: 889 Square feet or 83 Square metres
     Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
     Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 103 Kg/sq metre
     Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0,74
        - Longitudinal: 15,48
        - Overall: 1,00
     Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
     Adequate accommodation and workspace room
     Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
     Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
  
  37 mm "Quintuple" is a Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon

Quote from: Nobody on April 22, 2012, 02:49:28 AM
@Carthaginian
With that amount of guns, isn't it more like a destroyer than a torpedo boat?

Yes, it is... in game terms, though, it would be considered a 'torpedo boat' because:
1.) It is 500 tons (normal) or less in displacement.
2.) Its primary anti-ship weapons are the torpedoes.

If clarifications are necessary in the 'Torpedo Boat' section, especially related to gun armament, that IS understandable. The line was somewhat blurry when it came to the early 'Torpedo Boat Destroyer' as to whether a given design was more 'Torpedo Boat' or more 'Destroyer' in nature. Given this ship's small size, short range and small caliber weapons, I called it a 'torpedo boat' rather than a proper 'destroyer.'

Should this issue merit more debate- and it may well, given the fact that Pluton, Furor and Terror were of similar speed, armament and displacement AND were rated as 'destroyers'- we can most certainly discuss that in the 'Rules Discussion' thread. :)

Quote from: Nobody on April 22, 2012, 02:49:28 AM
QUESTION:
With a small patrol boat like this you're likely to have some reserves, what would you do with that?

• a) build them to excessive hull strength
  
• b) use 'paper' armor (which I did)
  
• c) declare them as misc weight
  
• d) something else?
  

I might use the weight to embark some Marines, especially in this case. As these ships are largely going to be doing 'Law and Order' type patrols, policing the local seas, the extra personnel might come in handy for searching ships or assisting in rescue operations.
Also, the 'paper' armor isn't so 'paper' when you consider the fact that this vessel will likely only encounter small arms fire in the course of its duties. The armor that you have on these vessels will completely stop even heavy rifle rounds and will deflect some small autocannon rounds. Again, this would be very useful for a vessel on a 'law and Order' type mission.

Whichever way you go, this is a very nice little patrol craft!

A small monitor- something to defend a moderate value settlement; powerful enough that you need to send something big to beat it, small enough that you can build several.

laid down 1901

Displacement:
   2,989 t light; 3,150 t standard; 3,500 t normal; 3,780 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (275.00 ft / 275.00 ft) x 55.00 ft x (12.00 / 12.84 ft)
   (83.82 m / 83.82 m) x 16.76 m  x (3.66 / 3.91 m)

Armament:
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 874.99lbs / 396.89kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,798 lbs / 816 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m torpedoes - 0.675 t each, 2.699 t total
   submerged side tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   180.00 ft / 54.86 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm     95.00 ft / 28.96 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      5.00" / 127 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,600 ihp / 1,194 Kw = 12.17 kts
   Range 2,880nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 630 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £0.305 million / $1.220 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 398 tons, 11.4 %
      - Guns: 393 tons, 11.2 %
      - Weapons: 5 tons, 0.2 %
   Armour: 1,098 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 601 tons, 17.2 %
      - Armament: 115 tons, 3.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 357 tons, 10.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 246 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,202 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 511 tons, 14.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 1.3 %
      - Hull below water: 45 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,507 lbs / 2,498 Kg = 6.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.52
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.675 / 0.682
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.50 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   35.50 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.47 ft / 2.58 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,732 Square feet or 1,090 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 475 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Doesn't actually belong here, but I would like to present to you one of my first ever SpringSharp2 attempts:

Goddess class, Orange Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   48.553 t light; 50.458 t standard; 55.272 t normal; 59.122 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   885,83 ft / 879,27 ft x 108,27 ft (Bulges 114,83 ft) x 32,81 ft (normal load)
   270,00 m / 268,00 m x 33,00 m (Bulges 35,00 m)  x 10,00 m

Armament:
      12 - 11,14" / 283 mm guns (4x3 guns), 691,56lbs / 313,69kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (8x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      20 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9.366 lbs / 4.249 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   524,93 ft / 160,00 m   19,03 ft / 5,80 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   354,33 ft / 108,00 m   12,30 ft / 3,75 m
   Upper:   1,57" / 40 mm   557,74 ft / 170,00 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
     Main Belt covers 92% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   623,36 ft / 190,00 m   36,09 ft / 11,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      12,6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm   0,39" / 10 mm      0,39" / 10 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 6,10" / 155 mm, Conning tower: 14,96" / 380 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 253.358 shp / 189.005 Kw = 33,00 kts
   Range 6.800nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.664 tons

Complement:
   1.802 - 2.343

Cost:
   £9,465 million / $37,859 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.171 tons, 2,1%
   Armour: 19.452 tons, 35,2%
      - Belts: 6.586 tons, 11,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.639 tons, 3,0%
      - Armament: 3.017 tons, 5,5%
      - Armour Deck: 7.743 tons, 14,0%
      - Conning Tower: 468 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 9.440 tons, 17,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 17.640 tons, 31,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.719 tons, 12,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 850 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     76.665 lbs / 34.775 Kg = 110,9 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 11,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
   Metacentric height 8,5 ft / 2,6 m
   Roll period: 16,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,584
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,66 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29,65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,49 ft / 0,15 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      34,45 ft / 10,50 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Mid (52%):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   23,62 ft / 7,20 m
      - Stern:      25,59 ft / 7,80 m
      - Average freeboard:   25,47 ft / 7,76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173,6%
   Waterplane Area: 68.590 Square feet or 6.372 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 871 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,00
      - Longitudinal: 1,00
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

An attempt to build a vessel using the Destroyer section of the treaty.
As you can see, she comes up with a pretty respectable range.

Torpedo Ram #41, Torpedo Boat laid down 1898

Displacement:
   423 t light; 440 t standard; 500 t normal; 548 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (250.00 ft / 250.00 ft) x 24.00 ft x (6.50 / 6.94 ft)
   (76.20 m / 76.20 m) x 7.32 m  x (1.98 / 2.11 m)

Armament:
      3 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 800 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 38 lbs / 17 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m torpedoes - 0.559 t each, 2.237 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      1 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m torpedo - 0.559 t total
   In a deck mounted carriage/fixed tube

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,904 ihp / 5,897 Kw = 25.91 kts/29.17 kts trial
   Range    220nm at 25.00 kts
   Range 2,475nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 108 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   52 - 68

Cost:
   £0.060 million / $0.238 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 13 tons, 2.6 %
      - Guns: 10 tons, 1.9 %
      - Weapons: 3 tons, 0.7 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 301 tons, 60.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 103 tons, 20.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 77 tons, 15.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.6 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     112 lbs / 51 Kg = 8.3 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.76
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 8.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.73

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.449 / 0.461
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  7.50 ft / 2.29 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  7.50 ft / 2.29 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.79 ft / 2.37 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 199.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,824 Square feet or 355 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 91 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.58
      - Overall: 0.50
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Quote from: Nobody on April 27, 2012, 08:41:07 AM
Doesn't actually belong here, but I would like to present to you one of my first ever SpringSharp2 attempts:

Wish I still had my first Springsharp- was a horrid thing, a predread with 9.2" guns in hull casemates!

Mine has been lost to the seas of 1&0s. a huge BC with VTE engines for 31knts of so

Playing around with some rules that will allow us to build period-appropriate small TB's.
If you build to 0.5 Cross Sectional/0.5 Composite and have >60% Machinery Weight, you get a fairly accurate torpedo boat...
You just have to ignore the >24 knot 'Light, Fast Combatant' warning when you do it.

Here's a test boat using those guidelines. She comes out about a knot and a half faster than historic once you use Guinness's Trial Speed Calculator... but if everything is broken equally for everyone, then it isn't really broken. ;) Tell me what ya'll think about working little craft like this into the game. I have the rules to make it work.

Torpedo Ram #1, S.M.H.O.S.J. Torpedo Ram laid down 1895

Displacement:
   92 t light; 95 t standard; 100 t normal; 104 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (120.00 ft / 120.00 ft) x 15.00 ft x (5.00 / 5.12 ft)
   (36.58 m / 36.58 m) x 4.57 m  x (1.52 / 1.56 m)

Armament:
      1 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm 45.0 cal gun - 5.00lbs / 2.27kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      3 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.51lbs / 0.23kg shells, 500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      Weight of broadside 7 lbs / 3 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m torpedoes - 0.504 t each, 2.018 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,500 ihp / 1,119 Kw = 20.23 kts/26.25 kts Trial Speed
   Range 56nm at 20.00 kts/26.00 kts Trial Speed
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   15 - 20

Cost:
   £0.012 million / $0.048 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4 tons, 3.7 %
      - Guns: 1 tons, 1.2 %
      - Weapons: 3 tons, 2.5 %
   Machinery: 60 tons, 60.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 27 tons, 26.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8 tons, 7.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 2.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27 lbs / 12 Kg = 6.7 x 2.0 " / 51 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
   Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 8.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.86

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.389 / 0.394
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 10.95 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  6.25 ft / 1.91 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  6.25 ft / 1.91 m,  5.25 ft / 1.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.25 ft / 1.60 m,  5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.09 ft / 1.86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 198.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,100 Square feet or 102 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 13 lbs/sq ft or 65 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.34
      - Overall: 0.58
   IGNORE Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea IGNORE
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

IMO, a too small ship, with low freaboard, unable to work in medium sea & certainly not in heavy sea.

Jef

Quote from: Jefgte on May 11, 2012, 02:46:58 AM
IMO, a too small ship, with low freaboard, unable to work in medium sea & certainly not in heavy sea.

Jef

Well, they aren't intended to go out and seek battle on the high seas.
They are coastal forces, made for use in relatively protected waters.

Given the way our world is put together, there are several shallow seas and straits where boats like this would be useful.

Awfully slow for a torpedo boat, isn't she?  Assuming the SS speed is used, she'll be hard pressed to get to the right angle to launch her fish.

Quote from: KWorld on May 11, 2012, 04:23:41 AM
Awfully slow for a torpedo boat, isn't she?  Assuming the SS speed is used, she'll be hard pressed to get to the right angle to launch her fish.

OK- the Trial speed is actually her 'theoretical top speed.' She isn't really all that slow, as the torpedo boats I modeled her after made about 24 knots (IJN TB31 class, l.d. 1893). As a harbor defense torpedo boat there is no doubt that she's historically competitive. I have no doubt about her suitability for for duty on the open sea- she'd be unable to steam at top speed in all but the best of conditions

Additionally, notice the date that she was laid down: 1895, a time when the typical battleship made between 16 and 18 knots on trials. If she makes 24 knots, she has a 6 knot speed advantage... so she is 1/3 again as fast as contemporary battleships. That is plenty of speed to get a favorable angle. Even if she can only make 20 knots, she still has a 4 knot advantage over most battleships in commission and a 2 knot advantage over the newest ones at the time of her commission. Considering that the battleships would be approaching her harbor and be tied to a (relatively) fixed course, the torpedo boats don't have a lot of maneuvering to do- they dash out, launch torpedoes, and dash home (if they are lucky).

Mostly, this was just to test what one had to do to duplicate the effects of the small torpedo boats of the 1880's and 1890's. It's a personal experiment that may or may not have bearing on the game, but one I wanted some opinions on. :)

And just for fun, a good old fashioned monitor- suitable for harbor defense and heavy gun training.

laid down 1897

Displacement:
   3,563 t light; 3,725 t standard; 4,000 t normal; 4,220 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (300.00 ft / 300.00 ft) x 60.00 ft x (14.00 / 14.63 ft)
   (91.44 m / 91.44 m) x 18.29 m  x (4.27 / 4.46 m)

Armament:
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 850.00lbs / 385.55kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mount, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      3 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.53lbs / 0.24kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,737 lbs / 788 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 16.0" / 406 mm, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m torpedoes - 0.433 t each, 1.731 t total
   submerged side tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      8 - 16.0" / 406 mm, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m torpedoes - 0.433 t each, 3.461 t total
   below water reloads

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   180.00 ft / 54.86 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   120.00 ft / 36.58 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,600 ihp / 1,193 Kw = 12.10 kts
   Range 3,150nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 494 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   250 - 326

Cost:
   £0.301 million / $1.204 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 336 tons, 8.4 %
      - Guns: 329 tons, 8.2 %
      - Weapons: 8 tons, 0.2 %
   Armour: 1,653 tons, 41.3 %
      - Belts: 1,131 tons, 28.3 %
      - Armament: 118 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 404 tons, 10.1 %
   Machinery: 262 tons, 6.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,305 tons, 32.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 437 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,481 lbs / 2,940 Kg = 7.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.86

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.556 / 0.561
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 33 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 81
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.26 ft / 1.91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,259 Square feet or 1,139 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 484 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

IMO,
Reduce the armor, increase the speed & add 100mm guns vs DDs attack.

Jef

Quote from: Jefgte on May 12, 2012, 05:33:43 PM
IMO,
Reduce the armor, increase the speed & add 100mm guns vs DDs attack.

Jef

Something like this, perhaps?
A completely purpose-built shore-bombardment vessel.
They are small and slow, with an obsolescent 12"/L35 mounted on the stern for shore bombardment. They have a relatively heavy anti-TB battery, and also a relatively heavy anti-flyer battery. These ships wouldn't even belong to the Naval Forces (technically it won't make a difference; it would be a storyline issue only), but rather to the Land Forces as an attached support unit.  ;)

Quotelaid down 1899

Displacement:
   2,270 t light; 2,400 t standard; 2,500 t normal; 2,580 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (250.00 ft / 250.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (12.00 / 12.31 ft)
   (76.20 m / 76.20 m) x 15.24 m  x (3.66 / 3.75 m)

Armament:
      1 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal gun - 850.00lbs / 385.55kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading gun in turret on barbette mount, 1899 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      6 - 4.75" / 121 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.51lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 raised mounts
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,152 lbs / 523 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   150.00 ft / 45.72 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   100.00 ft / 30.48 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,200 ihp / 896 Kw = 11.97 kts
   Range 1,470nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 181 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   176 - 229

Cost:
   £0.184 million / $0.736 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 195 tons, 7.8 %
      - Guns: 195 tons, 7.8 %
   Armour: 877 tons, 35.1 %
      - Belts: 530 tons, 21.2 %
      - Armament: 91 tons, 3.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 232 tons, 9.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 24 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 214 tons, 8.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 893 tons, 35.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 230 tons, 9.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 3.6 %
      - Hull below water: 40 tons
      - Hull above water: 40 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,443 lbs / 2,469 Kg = 6.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.58
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 10.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.69

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.583 / 0.587
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.20 ft / 3.41 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,001 Square feet or 836 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Extra weight is to accommodate 20 soldiers and 2 extra steam launches.
They would be used to 'police the area' before the ship went in (read as: they go out and fine mines).

I think I'll throw my hat into the ring...


How does this look? Meets the rules?

Hound, Aztlan Heavy Cruiser laid down 1905

Displacement:
   9,304 t light; 9,689 t standard; 11,000 t normal; 12,048 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (504.23 ft / 500.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (22.00 / 23.57 ft)
   (153.69 m / 152.40 m) x 21.34 m  x (6.71 / 7.19 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 504.26lbs / 228.73kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      10 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      20 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,657 lbs / 1,205 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 20.0" / 508 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 1.053 t each, 4.214 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
      Mines
      50 - 500.00 lbs / 226.80 kg mines - 11.161 t total
   in Above water - Stern racks/rails

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15,811 ihp / 11,795 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,359 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   536 - 698

Cost:
   £0.893 million / $3.571 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 751 tons, 6.8 %
      - Guns: 732 tons, 6.7 %
      - Weapons: 19 tons, 0.2 %
   Armour: 2,843 tons, 25.8 %
      - Belts: 1,133 tons, 10.3 %
      - Armament: 525 tons, 4.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,143 tons, 10.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 43 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,269 tons, 20.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,342 tons, 30.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,696 tons, 15.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,979 lbs / 6,794 Kg = 30.0 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.56 ft / 5.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,320 Square feet or 2,166 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 536 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.53
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

quite the legs you have given her

Good legs, don't see anything wrong with the guns except for the loads of MG's... well within the rules.

Short armor belt, high freeboard... study the performance of the Infanta Maria Teresa class in the battle of Santiago de Cuba if you want to find out what she'll be like in battle. Are the mines in a handling deck or on the weather deck? They and the above water torpedoes are a big fire hazard either way.

All in all, I don't have any complaints.
A good starter ship.
Good character- not a bad ship, but good historic problems to add flavor.

Just remember, long legs don't reduce ship cost- we use Normal tonnage rather than Light tonnage when computing cost.

Well she is supposed to be a true cruiser, operating independently for long periods of time, and at high speeds, hence the long legs. Armament is split into 4 turrets to make her look more imposing as showing the flag would be a secondary role. Mines would probably not be carried on a regular basis, but its better to have the flexibility if needed.

A small CDS.


Mastin, Aztlan Coastal Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   3,544 t light; 3,779 t standard; 4,000 t normal; 4,177 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (303.00 ft / 300.00 ft) x 55.00 ft x (15.50 / 16.04 ft)
   (92.35 m / 91.44 m) x 16.76 m  x (4.72 / 4.89 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 504.26lbs / 228.73kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,527 lbs / 1,146 kg
      Mines
      50 - 500.00 lbs / 226.80 kg mines - 11.161 t total
   in Above water - Stern racks/rails

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   100.00 ft / 30.48 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,650 ihp / 1,977 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 398 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   250 - 326

Cost:
   £0.414 million / $1.658 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 599 tons, 15.0 %
      - Guns: 585 tons, 14.6 %
      - Weapons: 14 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 966 tons, 24.2 %
      - Belts: 480 tons, 12.0 %
      - Armament: 240 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 214 tons, 5.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 33 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 380 tons, 9.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,550 tons, 38.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 456 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.3 %
      - Hull above water: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,769 lbs / 2,617 Kg = 11.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.92

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.547 / 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.24 ft / 4.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,487 Square feet or 1,067 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 548 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 3.09
      - Overall: 1.01
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Very thin main belt, and very short for a 14' freeboard.
You're still looking at only about 4'-5' above the waterline.
That's gonna be a large area for QF guns to attack; additionally the end belts are going to be ineffective against anything over about 20mm-25mm. I daresay that they will only serve to detonate lighter shells that would normally go through-and-through.

Still- she is economical, contains a lot of firepower, and the mine racks would allow her to prepare her own positions on the fly... as long as she isn't caught carrying a load on her back.

Ok, SS3 is becoming really annoying. Went through everything can't find the problem. Ignore the torpedoes and A/S mortars, supposed to represent something else.

Bellerophon, AIS Cruiser laid down 1905
DESIGN FAILURE: Ship will capsize

Displacement:
   2,891 t light; 3,030 t standard; 3,500 t normal; 3,876 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (403.53 ft / 400.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (12.00 / 12.98 ft)
   (122.99 m / 121.92 m) x 15.24 m  x (3.66 / 3.96 m)

Armament:
      3 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 172.96lbs / 78.45kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 30.0 cal guns - 12.44lbs / 5.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Twin mounts layout not set
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 825 lbs / 374 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 24.0" / 610 mm, 50.00 ft / 15.24 m torpedoes - 3.636 t each, 14.545 t total
   In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
      Main DC/AS Mortars
      2 - 100.00 lbs / 45.36 kg trainable AS Mortars + 100 reloads - 4.554 t total

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.00" / 25 mm, Aft 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 4,627 ihp / 3,452 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 846 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £0.269 million / $1.076 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 279 tons, 8.0 %
      - Guns: 211 tons, 6.0 %
      - Weapons: 68 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 66 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 57 tons, 1.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 10 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 664 tons, 19.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,532 tons, 43.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 609 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 10.0 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     0 lbs / 0 Kg = 0.0 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.00
   Metacentric height -1.8 ft / -0.5 m
   Roll period: NaN seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): Infinity
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.24 ft / 4.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,453 Square feet or 1,250 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 142 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 418 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.00
      - Longitudinal: 0.00
      - Overall: NaN
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Im curious as to what they represent.

Quote8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Twin mounts layout not set

You need to specify the laout of the armament properly. Whenever you run into that particular problem, it means that one of the weapons has not been assigned a layout.

Quote from: Walter on May 29, 2012, 09:42:35 PM

Quote8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Twin mounts layout not set

You need to specify the laout of the armament properly. Whenever you run into that particular problem, it means that one of the weapons has not been assigned a layout.

All hail the master!

What do the 'strange' weapons represent.
"Strange" is something I want to see, but for weapons, they must meet a community approval standard.

Thanks Walter!

Updated design posted in the new thread.

QuoteAll hail the master!

Yeah, I'm the greatest! ;D

... actually, the reason I know that is because I ran into exactly the same problem a few times and I had no idea what I was doing wrong. It took me a while to figure out that I actually forgot to set the layout of one of the mounts and SS does not give you any warnings that you forgot that input. But once you know what the cause of that problem is, it's an easy fix whenever you run into it the next time.