It appears that we have final rules draft in place. So let me move everything over and we go from there. Let me know if their are any horrible glaring omissions.
Michael
EconomyDrawing up the economic rules, we had several aims:
Economy figures should be in broad agreement with OTL numbers
Design a rule where trade is important, and blockades have noticeable effect
Limit military sizes by maintenance cost
Get the system consistent, but as simple as possible while fulfilling these aims (KISS: Keep It Simple at Start)
Size of national economies is represented by the value of annual Gross Domestic Product (GDP). The governmental sector collects a portion of this GDP in taxes, spends it running the bureaucracy, education, improvement of infrastructure, maintaining the military and some discretionary spending (and whatever I omitted from this list). As Nverse concentrates on the naval aspects, the only expenditure a player needs to control is the "discretionary" and military spending. Rest of the governmental spending is assumed to be beneficial to the economy. For sake of simplicity, stimulating effect of military spending is omitted.
A starting nation in 1880 has a total population of 35 million, and a corresponding GDP of N$3,333 [million]. With the baseline 3% tax rate this gives an annual military expenditure of N$100 (the [million] omitted for convenience).
The population and GDP would be broken down into provinces at player's discretion.
The average GDP/capita would be N$95 in 1880. This roughly equals to $2000 in Maddison's tables. The most advanced provinces have a GDP [per capita] of N$200. Agrarian regions with poor agricultural production and no mining have a GDP of N$50, and subsistence economy in poor colonies has a GDP of N$25.
Details of national industrial capacities are ignored. Player nations are at a similar level of industrial development, eliminating the need for further differentiation.
The main national industries are located in the country proper. Overseas holdings exist to support the domestic industry, not to provide competition. Overseas holdings cannot be industrialized and assimilated.
GDP, Taxation and growthPopulation growth is assumed to be a flat 1% annually.
The effective GDP of the nation is the base GDP of the home country, increased by trade factors and colonial income. The more money is diverted into military spending, the lower the domestic GDP growth. Taxation refers to the military spending. The chosen taxation baseline of 3% allows a 3% annual GDP growth rate. The following table describes the relationship between tax rate and GDP growth:
Tax Rate GDP Growth
---------- ------------
0% 4.5%
0.5% 4.25%
1% 4%
1.5% 3.75%
2% 3.5%
2.5% 3.25%
3% 3%
3.5% 2.5%
4% 2%
4.5% 1.5%
5% 1%
5.5% 0.5%
6% 0%
Nations cannot change military spending arbitrarily in peacetime.
The maximum tax increase is 0.5 percentage point (i.e. from 2.5% to 3%). In wartime expenditure can be doubled from the previous year. Also in war the tax table does progress beyond 6% in war time but the effects on economy will be subject to moderator adjudication.
In regular economic climate, the economic growth must keep pace with the population growth, otherwise there would be political unrest in the nation. That means 5% max tax rate at 1% growth.
RailroadsBought outright, standard gauge railroads cost $10 per 300km. Narrow gauge is half the cost, but have half the capacity.
In industrialized areas, railroads need not be purchased. They will develop naturally as required by market factors, etc. During war, railroads near the front lines will be built as a function of army logistics, so similarly their purchase would not normally be required.
Railroads built in semi-civilized and un-civilized areas generally have less immediate return on investment than those in fully industrialized areas, and therefore often have to be subsidized. A subsidized railroad costs $4 per 300km for standard gauge and $2 per 300km for narrow gauge.
Railroads which have no reasonable expectation to provide return on investment must be bought outright.
Trade
International trade is the lifeblood of nations. The volume of trade between industrial nations accounts for 20% of the total economy - split evenly between exports and imports. Half of this trade is short-distance, within a continent, and carried by rail or coastal vessels. The other half of this trade is "long-distance", between continents.
This maximum trade volume generates 20% of GDP (and taxes). Seaborne trade is carried by the Merchant Marine of both trading partners. A given trading partner can account for up to a quarter of the total trade.
The default long-range trade distribution is split between the two other industrialized continents. Only the major trading partners need to be defined, taking up to 10% each of the GDP.
Trade with semi-civilized nations
There are two differenced from the industrial trade. The first is that the merchant marine is provided by the industrial partner. Second, the trade must be established first. Write a story on getting a trade treaty from a given nation. Or write a story to force a given nation to open their market. You can also force the semi-civilized nation to stop trading with a given partner. The max. trade volume is 5% for the industrial partner, and 20% (monopoly) for the semi-civ partner.
There is no inherent limit on how many such trades a nation can pursue otherwise.
EXAMPLE
Kingdom of NPstain has an economy of $400 a year. Playerabia wishes to establishe a trade agreement with said nation. A series of stories is written and the moderators judge the story to be worth 5% trade deal between the two nations. So 400 * 0.05 = $20. Playerabia has an economy of $4000. When figuring tax income Playerabia's economy is assumed to be its economy + the value of such trade agreements. If the trade pact with Npstain was the only trade pact that Playerabia had then for tax purposes its economy is treated as 4000 + 20 = 4,020.
Colonial trade
Colonial trade refers to trade with overseas holdings, previously uncivilized states or conquered semi-civs. After a target nation is conquered, colonial administration and communication lines (merchant marine) needs to be established. The cost of establishing a colony is the same as the size of the local economy. Trade of any colony would be dominated by the mother nation. The colonial trade volume is 20% of the economy, but it contributes only to GDP growth, the MM is required to maintain tax/tariff income.
Example:
A colony of 1.2 million people has the GDP of $60. It takes $120 to establish colonial administration. This colony would provide $60 bonus to the national economy, and $1.5-$2 tax per year.
Trade routes
Each nation should map their major overseas trade routes, with one port per trading partner.
Merchant Marine
The size of the national merchant marine (MM) is determined by the volume and distance of trade routes. It is assumed that shipping firms can buy ships necessary for new trade routes. Establishing colonial administration includes the cost of subsidizing new ships.
A small percentage of the MM are passenger liners that can be used as auxiliary cruisers. There are much fewer large liners than OTL, as there is no migration from Europe to North America.
Commerce raiding is represented by two mechanisms. The first is the direct economic damage of ships and merchandize sunk. The second is that raiding and blockading decreases the efficiency of the trade route, requiring more ships to sustain trade, and there would be unsold goods that would be sold at a reduced price. There are some detailed rules, but they are omitted here.
Army Rules
Army Units have the following characteristics:
Combat Rating: The ability of the unit to do damaged expressed in decimal numbers, EG 2.2
Unit Strength: A corps has 100%, a division 50%, a brigade 10% and a fortress citadel count as 5%. If a unit has taken damage round unit to the nearest fraction 74% intact Corps would count as a division for example. In gross terms this represents the amount of manpower in a given unit.
Unit Morale: Represents the confidence and willingness to fight of a unit. Reserves have 2.0 moral, Conscripts 3.0, Regulars, 4.0 and fortress troops 5.0 base morale.
Unit Speed: Infantry Corps can move 3 provinces a month while Cavalry can move 5 provinces a month. Specialist light infantry can ignore movement penalties when moving through their terrain type.
Unit Quality: There are three unit types available, Regular, Conscript and Reserve. Regular units are at full war strength all the time and can fight at moment's notice. Conscript and reserve units have half or all of their unit strength made up of reservists that are only available in time of war. It takes time to mobilize conscript and reserve units; exactly how long is a function of your Research Establishment.
Subject to Moderator approval a unit may receive Elite and or Veteran rating; said unit will receive a bonus to its combat rating and it its moral.
As in N3 the base unit of the game is the Army Corps. A formation of 50,000 men for infantry and 15,000 for Cavalry. Divisions have 25,000 and 7,500 men. While Brigade are 5,000 and 1,500 men. A citadel is 2,500 men. Smaller units are less effective in combat and receive a size penalty, see the combat chart for specific value.
In peace time a nation can keep no more than 3% of its manpower under arms, the percentage possible increases as new technologies become available through your Army Establishment Research.
As in N3 there are three types of Army Units. General Infantry, Cavalry and Specialist Light Infantry. The specialist light infantry have special movement capabilities in certain type of terrain; mountain, jungle, desert and amphibious. Light Infantry use the Cavalry Charts for their Unit Strength. At start of the game there will be NO amphibious light infantry to start. You may have units called marines or naval infantry if you wish but they have no special abilities. Once your army and naval research establishment reaches the correct level the Marine Light Infantry unit will be introduced.
The cost to build and maintain army units can be found on the following two tables.
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2750/armyv2.png
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1430/fortv2.png
If you wish to upgrade an army unit from one date level to the next you just pay the difference between the two. The time to build or train a new unit is 3 months and the units then counted as reserve in terms of quality. After another 3 months the unit will move up to reserve and then after a final 6 months to regular. Reserve or Conscript units on active duty would move up in quality the same way if on active duty. The number of units a nation can have in reserve status is a function of their Army Establishment. To achieve Elite and or Veteran status takes two years and has special conditions, in particular Moderator approval.
If a player wishes to they may choose to build equipment and just have sit in a warehouse as an equipment stockpile. It costs nothing and there are no troops attached to it. As a result to active an equipment stockpile will take at least 3 months and then you have a formation of reserve quality. There is no cost in activating stockpile unit beyond having to pay its upkeep; amount will be prorated for the year.
Digging In: It takes a land unit 3 movements to completely digging in. One movement provides a 10% defensive bonus, two movements provide a 25% defensive bonus and three movements provide a 50% defensive bonus. Digging in levels take effect the following week.
If a unit has dug in to any degree it takes one movement to exit the field defenses.
Cavalry are incapable of digging in.
Siege Artillery: Siege Artillery can only be used vs. dug in units or fortifications. They have zero combat value in war of movement. Also if siege artillery unit faces an older generation fort then there will be a combat multiplier. Modern guns have habit of ripping apart outdated forts very quickly.
Naval Artillery on Land: When moving naval guns over to land we are going to us a KISS. Let us say that your land combat tech is 1905 Infantry which costs $27.5 a corps for 5 points of combat power. Which gives you a 0.18 ratio of combat power to cash. Now if you have $2 worth of naval artillery to move over AND it is of similar generation then it would get you 0.18 * $2 = 0.36 combat rating worth of Heavy / Rail Artillery. This is a case of recycling more than anything else IMHO. You have the guns already from some source and want to do something else with them.
Constables, Depots and Engineers:
Conquered Territory and Colonies have populations that are inherently hostile to your rule and view you as enemy aliens. As such you will need to have troops to keep order in such provinces. For every million people in a hostile province you will need one Corps of troops, infantry or cavalry, to keep order or two brigades of Constables. A constable unit is best described as a form of military police unit.
When on Enemy territory in time of war your armies will require depot brigades to keep your units in supply. Units are in supply when on their own territory and with a connection to the capital. If a unit is cut off from the capital by enemy controlled province the moderators will make a determination as to supply status. A depot can provide supply to 5 Army Corps one province over. A supply Chain is a line of Depot Brigades in adjacent provinces going back to a supply source. Provide their own supply when next to national territory and or when along a coast and the moderators determine if there is a valid line of sea supply.
Units out of supply loose 0.5 to their current moral total and cannot attack but only defend. Out of supply units do not recover moral as normal. If units are out of supply for consecutive turns (months) and have zero or negative current moral they will surrender.
To build or repair things such as fortress citadels, ports, railroads or other projects that the moderators so designate require the service of an engineer brigade. To be actively working on a project requires the engineer to be mobilized.
How to do Combat
The N4 Combat system is an area based system and designed for simplicity and not necessarily realism. Orders will be given on a monthly basis and all months are assumed to have 4 weeks.
Recall that infantry units have a speed of 3 and cavalry a speed of 5. This represents the number of provinces that said units could move a month. So infantry could move up to 3 provinces in a month with 3 weeks spent in movement and one month sitting. Cavalry could move up to 5 provinces in a month with 3 weeks spent moving 1 province at a time and a 4th week spent moving two provinces. Players determine what weeks units move and units can not move their units at all. For example units could spend a week resting and infantry units can spend a week digging in. Units can not move through a province where there are enemy units in it. It is possible to move out of province with enemy units into an adjacent friendly province.
Combat can occur every week in a month and combat occurs when enemy units are in the same province and one or both players wish for combat to occur. If both players wish for combat to occur the moderators will make a determination as to who is the defender and who is the attacker. Units in combat take loss to Unit Strength and to Unit Moral. Units that zero or negative morale may not initiate combat but can defend themselves. The two key factors in combat is the relative ratio of forces, if one side has more total Unit Strengths it is at an advantage in combat. The second is Unit Moral, as units with High Unit Morale will fight with high aggression and units with low morale will not wish to take the fight to the enemy.
If after combat an army, IE all of one nations units in a province are reduced to zero or negative morale those units have broken. A broken army will withdraw from the province, if both sides armies have broken the two armies will remain in the province. If an army is forced to withdraw but has no friendly province to retreat to the army will surrender.
Units recover 0.5 morale per week that they are not in combat up to their maximum rating.
Siege Warfare
If a province has Fortress Citadels it is assumed that said fortifications are blocking key road and rail junctions. So while it might be possible to move around fortress in a province it is not possible to trace supply through this province. When a nation enters a province with enemy fortifications but no enemy units they have two choices, to screen the fortifications with a portion of their army; placing the fortress under siege, or assault the fortifications. To screen the fortifications requires enough troops, whatever their quality, of equal manpower to the fortifications manpower value. Recall that corps counts as 50,000 men and a Citadel counts as 2,500 men. So to screen 20 Citadels would require one corps.
If a player has siege artillery they can use it to attempt to reduce the fortifications. This can be done when screening the fortifications or when assaulting the fortifications. Siege Artillery fights at reduced effectiveness when used vs. Fortifications that are being screened. Siege Artillery fights at increased effectiveness when used vs. Fortifications that are of early generation.
A player can besiege fortifications with screening units and attempt to let starvation, etc work their toll on the morale of the fortifications troops. It could take several months for a garrison being besieged this way to surrender however.
In the event that there is field army in a province in addition to fortifications the controller of those units has a couple of options to consider. They can have their army fight with the fortifications, IE be on the defense and their army gets to count the combat power of the fortifications. If the player chooses to attack then they do not get to use their fortifications to aid combat. The last option a player has is to have some or all of their mobile units withdraw into the fortifications of a province. Said units do not contest the movement of enemy units but the enemy player needs to assign more manpower to screen / besiege the fortifications. Additional mobile units in fortifications cause units to use up supplies faster and will surrender quicker when besieged.
Edited to clear up conflict on size needed for DD's
Naval infrastructure and maintenance
Slipways cost about half of drydocks. Base maintenance is 2%, ship maintenance is 1-5-10%.
Naval base
Naval bases contain shipyards, drydocks, and infrastructure necessary to run the fleet detachment based in the port. A naval base cost $2 for every 10,000t of (normal) support capacity.
Base maintenance: $0.2 for every 10,000t of capacity
Shipbuilding infrastructure
Shipbuilding can be done at drydocks and slipways. While a drydock can have other uses, slips are cheaper and do not have maintenance costs associated with them. It is important to note, that as heavy industry is limited to the "homeland" territories, ships cannot be built at overseas ports.
Slipways
Slipways can only be built in the homeland. A slipway of X m length costs X^3/600 – less than half of a drydock capable of taking a ship with L:B:D of 21:3:1.
Drydock
Drydocks are used for periodic maintenance, repairing damage and performing larger overhauls.
A drydock costs as much to build as the largest ship (with a block coefficient of 0.6) it can accommodate.
Miscellaneous:
Docks for small vessels (lighter than 1,000t and shorter than 80m/262') are assumed to be present in "reasonable" numbers at naval bases, and no accounting of them is necessary. This limit would increase at a later time.
For regular maintenance, you need one drydock that can accommodate the largest ship based there, and an additional "large enough" drydock for every 20 large (over 1,000t or over 80m/262') ship.
You need extra drydocks for major repairs and ship reconstruction.
Drydocks can be lengthened, for the cost of the capacity increase.
Expanding a drydock in beam/draught require relocating/demolishing some existing infrastructure, which cost half the existing capacity of a drydock.
Examples
As 1m3 seawater weighs 1 long ton (within a %), a 150m long, 20m wide and 8m deep drydock costs 150x20x8x0.6= $14.4
Extending the length of an 8000t drydock by 25% would cost 10-8 =$2.
Extending a 8000t drydock to a 16,000t one would cost (16-8)+8x0.5=$12.
Drydocks cost 10% (i.e. $0.10 for every 1,000t capacity) to maintain.
Place Holder for Ship Construction Rules. I see that there are two VERY different version of these around. I need to consult with Charles to get this fixed.
OOPS!!! Sorry!!!
Edited to PURGE BP references
Ship Construction and Maintenance
Ship construction Cost
Regular naval ship construction cost is $1 for every 1000t of normal displacement.
Submarines, torpedo boats, destroyers and auxiliaries are priced differently.
Construction Time
A ship may be launched (or, in the case of a dock, floated out) when at least 40% of the minimum building time has elapsed. After a ship is launched/floated out, it takes one month for the slip or dock to be readied for a new job.
The minimum amount of time required to complete a ship is six months, if less than 501 t normal displacement.
If the ship is larger than 500 t normal displacement, the minimum building time is: (normal displacement / 1000) + 6 months. This figure may be rounded to the nearest month.
A ship may be built on an expedited schedule. This must be declared when the ship is a laid down; construction time is reduced by one third, but the dollar cost is increased by 50% and the Moderators may determine at their discretion that there are quality control issues associated with the ship.
A ship is completed (can fight and move on its own) when the minimum build time has expired and all costs for the ship have been paid.
Following its completion, a ship requires three months of "shakedown" time before it is completely operational. It may perform its duties in this time period if required, but will not completely effective (see: HMS Prince of Wales, 1941)
Upkeep of Warships
Ships require constant minor repairs and material replacements in order to remaining functioning. This effort increases as the ship spends more time at sea.
This is strictly a dollar cost - and is based on original construction costs. Consequently, submarines and warships built to destroyer/torpedo-boat architecture will require greater upkeep than other vessels of similar size, while ships built to merchantile standards will require less upkeep than other vessels of similar size.
There are three stages of readiness, with associated upkeep costs:
Mobilized: The ship is in all respects ready for immediate military operations, and spends considerable time at sea. Upkeep is 10% of construction cost, per half-year.
Active: The ship can undertake limited military operations immediately, and will only take a few days to become completely combat ready. It spends the majority of the time in harbour. Upkeep is 5% of construction cost, per half-year.
Reserve: The ship is anchored in a secure location, with a minimal cadre of crew conserving its equipment and undertaking essential maintenance. The ship is not capable of undertaking immediate operations. Upkeep is 1% of construction cost, per half-year.
Additionally, all ships require regular access to drydock facilities. See section on naval infrastructure for details. A ship with adequate access to drydocks and base facilities can remain in active operation indefinitely.
Repairing Damage
A ship that is in perfect condition is said to be at 100%. As damage is inflicted on the ship, the percentage rating decreases. When the ship reaches 0%, it sinks.
However - reaching a state of 0% does not (usually) mean that the ship has been completely and utterly destroyed. Consequently, it is generally easier and faster to repair a ship than to build an identical ship from scratch.
The cash cost of repairing a ship is: (Original Cash Cost)*(% Damaged)*(0.5)
The time required to repair the ship is: (Original Build Time)*(% Damaged)*(0.5)
Moderators will advise what degree of infrastructure is required to repair each vessel, depending on the circumstances of the damage.
Example: SMS Siligia is at 85% after a battle, so has sustained 15% damage. The dollar cost to repair her is 7.5% of original build cost, and the time of repairs is 7.5% of her original mininum build time.
Refurbishments
A refurbishment is a more comprehensive refit which allows for replacement of obsolete or undesired fittings as well as overhauling any original equipment that remains. Since a ship can get by on normal maintenance through its entire career, a refurbishment is never mandatory. However, a ship that is refurbished is likely to be more effective than a ship that is merely overhauled.
A refurbishment costs 20% of the original dollar cost of construction, plus the costs of new components described below. Refurbishments take the greater of 2.5 months, or 25% of the ship's original minimum time of construction plus one month per $1 of new components added to the ship.
See below for a description of what can and can not be done in a refurbishment. Note that "tonnage" refers to those in a Springstyle report's "Distribution of weights at normal displacement"
Armament and machinery
All deck mounts and casemates, and secondary turret/barbettes, can be moved, added or deleted; main battery turret/barbettes can be replaced by turret/barbettes of equal or smaller roller diameter or other components allowed during refurbishments. Newer machinery can be installed, but the weight can not exceed the previous set of machinery.
$ cost = (tonnage/1000) * 2
Armor and functional miscellaneous weight
New armor decks, external belts, and external bulges for torpedo defence (not "torpedo bulkheads") can be added. Existing armor decks, external belts, or weapon armor can be replaced or removed (not increased). Functional miscellaneous weight can be added at the expense of non-functional miscellaneous weight or savings from removed components.
$ cost = (tonnage/1000) *2
Hull, fittings & equipment
The waterline may be raised or lowered by 10%. The trim may be changed.
$ cost is equal to (tonnage/5000)
Fuel, ammunition & stores; non-functional miscellaneous weight
Types of fuel can partially or wholly changed, but overall bunkerage not increased. Changes to number and size of main-battery shells in magazines, but overall weight not increased. Non-functional miscellaneous weight can be increased or decreased.
$ cost = (tonnage/2000).
Reconstruction
This is the most elaborate type of refit, and marks a comprehensive change to the ship's internal structure or hull form.
The base dollar cost of a reconstruction is 25% of the original build cost. There is also the dollar cost of new components described below. Refurbishments take the greater of 2.5 months, or 25% of the ship's original minimum time of construction plus one month per $1 of new components added to the ship.
Armament and machinery
Main battery turret/barbettes can be raised. Machinery spaces can be enlarged at the expense of other components.
$ cost = (tonnage/1000) * 2
Armor and functional miscellaneous weight
Internal belts can be replaced or removed. Torpedo Bulkheads can be added.
$ cost = (tonnage/1000)
Hull, fittings & equipment
The bow may be lengthened by up to 5% of overall length. A new section may be added amidships, up to 5% of overall length.
$ cost = double the change in overall light displacement
Fuel, ammunition & stores; non-functional miscellaneous weight
Overall bunkerage can be increased. Overall weight of main battery magazine can be increased.
$ cost = (tonnage/2000).
Scrapping
Scrapping a ship takes 25% of the time originally required to construct it.
Scrapping may take place at a military port, or - if there is no military port present - any coastal town or city. No slip or dock is required for this purpose.
Specific fittings may be removed from a ship for re-use in future ships. The player must make note of this at the time of scrapping.
The scrap value of a ship is: 0.15 * (ship's original dollar cost - dollar cost of removed fittings). The player earns back this value in the year following completion of scrapping.
Components removed from a ship during refurbishment or reconstruction can also be scrapped.
Damaged components removed from a ship during repairs can be scrapped, but their value is halved.
Shipbuilding Technology
In most cases, the technology used in a ship must be completed prior to the half-year in which the ship itself is laid down.
There are a few exceptions, in which a ship's design can be modified without penalty, so long as:
1) The technology is completed prior to the year in which the ship is launched
2) If the modification adds weight to the design, there is either a "construction reserve" of miscellaneous weight that can be reduced to compensate or simple external fittings (deck mounted weapons) that can be omitted.
These exceptions are technologies that have limited physical impact on the ship, or affect components installed late in the construction of the ship:
Torpedo (above-deck installations only)
Mine Warfare (type of paravanes installed only)
ASW Warfare (type and number of depth charges only)
Night-Fighting
Range-Finding, Fire Control and Gunnery
Radar
Anti-Aircraft Guns
Mercantile Standards/Auxiliaries
A ship in government service may be built to mercantile standards if armament and armor take up no more than 2% of the ship's weight at normal displacement. Such ships could include colliers, transports, survey ships, and others.
Tenders, as described below, can not be built to mercantile standards
In this case, the cash cost of construction is quartered. This also pertains to upkeep, future repair, refit, and scrapping of the vessel. The time required to build, refit, repair, or scrap the ship remains unchanged, however.
Moderators have may require a ship to be built to normal military standards if they believe that the intent of a design is to produce a cheap warship.
Tenders
A tender is an auxiliary which can supply all the amenities of a port, to some degree. It generally carries accommodation space and amenities for crews of small vessels, workshops, warehouses, stores, and fuel. Up to half of the weight of these facilties may be simmed as extra fuel bunkerage; the remainder may only be simmed as miscellaneous weight. Regardless, it all counts as functional miscelleneous weight for the purposes of costing.
For every thousand tonnes of facilities aboard the tender, four thousand tonnes of shipping may use the tender as their "port".
Tenders may conduct overhauls, basic refits, and basic repairs to ships so long as the work would not require a drydock. If the tender has twelve thousand tonnnes or more of facilities aboard, it is large enough to undertake refurbishments as well.
Tenders can be built using mercantile practices, in which case their cost is halved.
Ship Maintenance
Some of the ships can be put in reserve status, up to 20% of the total base capacity.
Ships: 1% cost in reserve, 5% regular and 10% deployed
Note: drydocks and bases cannot be put on reserve. If they are not paid, the capacity is gone.
Fleet of 400,000t
Ship construction: $20 (20,000t)
300,000t ships in regular maintenance: $15
100,000t in reserve: $1
Drydocks: $6 (60,000t capacity)
Bases: $10 (500,000t capacity)
Total naval expenditure: $52
Hulls and Sails
Hull Materials: The 19th Century saw rapid changes in materials that ships hulls were constructed off. In less than 50 years the worlds battlefleets moved from hulls of Wooden Hulls, to Ironclad, Iron hull and finally steel construction. These different materials have different abilities to take the load of the ships weight.
Wooden Hull Ships: 1.1 Composite Hull Strength
Iron Hull Ships: 1.05 Composite Hull Strength
Steel Hull Ships: 1.0 Composite Hull Strength
Sail vs. Steam: As the 19th century progressed there was a transition of warships from sail propulsion, to steam backup and finally to all steam propulsion. The switch over to steam comes because of two reasons. First is that ships can steam all the time in all weather conditions. The second is that rigging is a fire hazard and source of possible debris to block the ships deck. Of course a ship with sails does not need to go to port to coal and doesn't require the ship engine to be maintained. So sailing ships will remain common in civilian service for a great deal of time.
To simulate the weight of a ships sail gear and the ballast to counter the torque effects the mast has on the hull misc. weight will be used. A portion will be below the waterline misc. weight and the other as above the deck misc. weight both found on the Weapons tab for SpringSharp3.
There are two types of sail plans that ships can follow. The Full Rigged Ship (3 masted ship) or Brigantine / Brig (2 masted ship).
A full rigged ship can do up to 2/3 of SS hull speed (not ship engine speed but speed based on hull) Displacement costs being 1.5% misc weight above hull for Full Rigged Ship and 6.5% misc weight below deck. On a 6,000 ton ship this comes out to 480 total misc tons.
A Brigantine can do 1/2 of SS hull speed. Displacement costs being 1% Misc Weight above hull and 4% misc weight below deck. On a 6,000 ton ship this comes out to 300 total misc tons.
Conquest
Non-player nations on the map will be identified as industrialized or semi-civilized. "Whitespace" on the map represents uncivilized territories.
One can attack other industrial and semi-civilized nations to expand power, or for the fun of it. Conquered provinces, however, cannot be assimilated in the timeframe of the game. Nationalist sentiment will keep tensions and unrest high, requiring constant and strong military presence. The conquering nations would also treat them as secondary citizens, regardless of official policies and PR campaigns.
Conquered industrial provinces add half their GDP to the national total. Conquered semi-civilized nations will have their GDP reduced and would be treated as colonies.
As a note, most wars should not be fought WWI-style – total war until one of the sides is crippled. Wars should stop with a few provinces might change ownerships.
Research
Research is spent on maintaining sufficient infrastructure and personnel to follow a given line of research. We call these establishments. A nation can only maintain one establishment for every $1000 of GDP. So at startup, a nation with a GDP of $3333 can have 3 establishments. Each establishment costs $5 per year to maintain.
Startup Tech Tree
Years are: Years everyone can get it/Years only those with required establishment can get this.
Naval Establishments
Naval Propulsion:
Baseline: Engine year: year laid down, 100% coal, simple expansion engines only
1890 / 1885: Engine year: year laid down, 100% coal, vertical triple expansion engines
Shipbuilding Materials:
Baseline: Iron ships, overall strength of 1.1 required
1890 / 1885: Early steel ships, overall strength of 1.05 required
Armor:
Baseline: Composite armor.
1890 / 1885: Harvey Nickel Steel armor, protection +1.
Artillery:
Baseline: Max muzzle energy 1900 million lb.ft^2/s^2
1890 / 1885: Max muzzle energy 2500 million lb.ft^2/s^2
Torpedo Boats and Destroyers
1880 / 1875 - 50 tons (0.5 strength and at least 50% of mass to engines) (single TT)
1885 / 1880 - 75 tons (" " & " ")
Capital Ship Architecture
AWAITING TEXT FROM CHARLES
Army Establishments
Ordinance and Tactics
Baseline: 1860 Army Tech & 1860 Forts and Siege Guns
1885 / 1880: 1880 Army Tech & 1880 Forts and Siege Guns
1900 / 1895: 1895 Army Tech & 1895 Forts and Siege Guns
Mobilization and Reserves
Baseline: Can maintain one reserve unit per 3 active strength units & bring Conscript or Reserve Units to active status in three weeks
1890 / 1885: Can maintain one reserve unit per 2 active strength units
1895 / 1890: Can bring Conscript or Reserve Units to active status in two weeks
Sorry for the error on a major element of the rules. Ship construction, will try to get this fixed tonight.
Michael
Quote from: miketr on September 19, 2011, 07:50:28 AM
Naval base
Naval bases contain shipyards, drydocks, and infrastructure necessary to run the fleet detachment based in the port. A naval base cost $2 for every 10,000t of (normal) support capacity.
Base maintenance: $0.2 for every 10,000t of capacity
It was mention in passing that is the total that is important, and not so much exactly were the capacity were located? Clarification would be useful (as I need to know if it will eat up 150kr or 300kr of the starting money).
Quote from: Korpen on September 19, 2011, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: miketr on September 19, 2011, 07:50:28 AM
Naval base
Naval bases contain shipyards, drydocks, and infrastructure necessary to run the fleet detachment based in the port. A naval base cost $2 for every 10,000t of (normal) support capacity.
Base maintenance: $0.2 for every 10,000t of capacity
It was mention in passing that is the total that is important, and not so much exactly were the capacity were located? Clarification would be useful (as I need to know if it will eat up 150kr or 300kr of the starting money).
It is expected that you will pot the capacity at a given port / location. How you divide up your support structure is up to you. See the example I did here.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5689.msg74075.html#msg74075
Michael
Quote from: miketr on September 19, 2011, 12:06:43 PM
Quote from: Korpen on September 19, 2011, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: miketr on September 19, 2011, 07:50:28 AM
Naval base
Naval bases contain shipyards, drydocks, and infrastructure necessary to run the fleet detachment based in the port. A naval base cost $2 for every 10,000t of (normal) support capacity.
Base maintenance: $0.2 for every 10,000t of capacity
It was mention in passing that is the total that is important, and not so much exactly were the capacity were located? Clarification would be useful (as I need to know if it will eat up 150kr or 300kr of the starting money).
It is expected that you will pot the capacity at a given port / location. How you divide up your support structure is up to you. See the example I did here.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5689.msg74075.html#msg74075
Michael
I saw you example, hence the question.
If it is purely on a per base basis one is going to need an awful, awful lot of surplus capacity just to move the fleet from one end of the kingdom to the other.
Capacity is measured by port. Each port needs the capacity to support the ships based at THAT port. If you want to move your fleet to a different port then whatever port is the new base needs to have the capacity to support ships assigned to that specific port. This is the system we used in N3 sans paying upkeep for port infrastructure.
Michael
BUMP
Construction rules up once issue cleared up
http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5717.msg74083.html#msg74083
PLEASE PLEASE any questions or issues with the current rules please bring them up.
I have some comments, but have a few things that need to be taken care of before I will have a chance to write them up.
Quote from: miketr on September 19, 2011, 01:41:00 PM
PLEASE PLEASE any questions or issues with the current rules please bring them up.
Apart from being generally unhappy and feeling ignored?
- Well you still have some BPs mentioned occasionally. And formulations that indicate the existence of something else else besides $.
- in Naval infrastructure and maintenance -> Miscellaneous: you have two different limits for "small" ships. One is "no (dry)dock for ships under 1000 tons required" and the other one is "1 dock for every ship over 2000 tons" - what about the ones in between?
QuoteInternational trade is the lifeblood of nations. The volume of trade between industrial nations accounts for 20% of the total economy [...]. Half of this trade is short-distance, within a continent, and carried by rail or coastal vessels. The other half of this trade is "long-distance", between continents.
I don't like this limit, it is too fixed. I think it would be better to define a lower limit of a quarter or a third for either.
Anyway, is that added to the GNP? So that we actually start with something like 3999.6$ Or is that supposed to be part of it? In which case I have to ask what happens if we don't have enough trade.
If it adds to the economy, does it improve growth?
- is colonial trade part of normal trade or extra?
- What does
QuoteThe colonial trade volume is 20% of the economy, but it contributes only to GDP growth
mean?
I would say that things looked mostly good to me. Nobody coverd my question on trade so I wont, I wonder if tech the tech costs arnt to high though 5 bucks per tech feals a bit excesive.
Quote from: Nobody on September 19, 2011, 02:27:15 PM
- Well you still have some BPs mentioned occasionally. And formulations that indicate the existence of something else else besides $.
I will read through again and look to purge them. Thanks
Quote from: Nobody on September 19, 2011, 02:27:15 PM
- in Naval infrastructure and maintenance -> Miscellaneous: you have two different limits for "small" ships. One is "no (dry)dock for ships under 1000 tons required" and the other one is "1 dock for every ship over 2000 tons" - what about the ones in between?
Weird, 1,000 tons is the number.
Quote from: Nobody on September 19, 2011, 02:27:15 PM
QuoteInternational trade is the lifeblood of nations. The volume of trade between industrial nations accounts for 20% of the total economy [...]. Half of this trade is short-distance, within a continent, and carried by rail or coastal vessels. The other half of this trade is "long-distance", between continents.
I don't like this limit, it is too fixed. I think it would be better to define a lower limit of a quarter or a third for either.
Anyway, is that added to the GNP? So that we actually start with something like 3999.6$ Or is that supposed to be part of it? In which case I have to ask what happens if we don't have enough trade.
If it adds to the economy, does it improve growth?
The BASE trade is PART of your GDP. So its 3,333. If you don't have enough trade routes at the start of the game we will find trade partners among NPC's.
If in game you don't have enough Merchant Marine for your trade then you and whoever is your trade partner looses some of your effective GDP. Yes its heavy handed and not perfect. At the same time trade warfare will mean something. Which is why we did the 50/50 split between short distance and long distance trade.
Now what CAN add to your taxable GDP is trade with the semi-civilized nations. Note its not tacked on to your GDP and does NOT grow as your core economy grows. So you don't do something like German GDP N$3,333 establish trade route with South Africa worth N$40, new GDP of Germany N$3,373, growth rate, etc. That is wrong.
The trade value only comes into play when you calculate your tax income.
Quote from: Nobody on September 19, 2011, 02:27:15 PM
- is colonial trade part of normal trade or extra?
- What does
QuoteThe colonial trade volume is 20% of the economy, but it contributes only to GDP growth
mean?
Poor phrasing... sorry. Old version of rules where at one point it was talked about having colonies be a bonus to growth of home nations. Idea was discarded as being too much effort for too little return.
What it supposed to be is that there is trade route, with associated Merchant Marine equal to 20% of the colonies economy with your home nation.
Does this answer the questions? I will work on making the edits by tomorrow.
Michael
Let me address trade routes a little more.
We did the fixed 50/50 split in the interest of KISS.
Also
1) If people have more trade via long distance trade then they are more vulnerable to having their economy disrupted.
2) We wanted trade %s of people to be even chunks.
3) We wanted commerce warfare to MEAN something. Having 10% of your economy on the line for long distance trade is a big deal.
Michael
Mike I understand #3, but read this example and then tell me were you see KISS:
Imagine country A manages to get a .25% higher growth rate than his trading partners, then he has to talk to all kinds of people every year talking about cents, just to make sure that he even gets that hard earned bonus. Would the limit be a bit more loose there would be room for variations and negotiations could be less frequent.
#1 & #2) even if the chunks are the same size they are still largely different. Take Poland: Short range trade between PCs? Only if D & Au allow it. See trade: Only if he can leave the Baltic. And the North Sea and...
Contrast UK or any American country: Just open Ocean.
My conclusion from your requirement would be at least 50% sea trade, and no upper limit.
It's still not clear what happens if I e.g. only manage to get 10% trade.
- does that mean my economy shrinks by 10%? But then these 10% would be actually 11 and that means... *you see were this is going?*
- and what is that is all short distance, or suddenly loose the long distance one due to war? If I need a 50/50 ratio, than that would mean I (and the ones that agreed to trade with me) get actually no trade at all.
There are multiple reasons that I was AGAINST a player for Poland Ukraine.
As to increased trade on the seas we also want players to avoid wars to the knife in homelands hence the 50% local nations. Wars aren't logical things (France was Germany's biggest trade Partner in but we can add pain to going to war which is realistic enough.
Growth of economy is MOOT in terms of trade between players.
You don't care what each others growth rate are or even what their core economies. A 5% trade treaty is just that, is 5%.
If Nation A has an economy of N$4000 vs. N$3800 for nation B we don't care. Trade between players is done as a % of economy.
This is KISS. (at least I think it is ;) )
Michael
Edited rules to purge BP references and fixed DD support size needed.
Michael
Any other comments that people have?
In particular economics and trade?
Korpen has issues on Naval Infrastructure but that is being talked about in its own thread. Anyone else have a comment? I moved gun stuff to its own thread so it can be talked about there.
Michael
Quote from: miketr on September 19, 2011, 05:12:45 PM
You don't care what each others growth rate are or even what their core economies. A 5% trade treaty is just that, is 5%.
If Nation A has an economy of N$4000 vs. N$3800 for nation B we don't care. Trade between players is done as a % of economy.
This is KISS. (at least I think it is ;) )
Really? Then why is trade with NPCs and colonies in $? And how do they "translate" into each other? Or if I say have a 33.33$ trade with local NPCs would I have only 9% of GDP left for trading? But in the next year it would be 9.x%. So I would still have to negotiate every year with changing numbers.
Quote from: Nobody on September 21, 2011, 10:17:09 AM
Quote from: miketr on September 19, 2011, 05:12:45 PM
You don't care what each others growth rate are or even what their core economies. A 5% trade treaty is just that, is 5%.
If Nation A has an economy of N$4000 vs. N$3800 for nation B we don't care. Trade between players is done as a % of economy.
This is KISS. (at least I think it is ;) )
Really? Then why is trade with NPCs and colonies in $? And how do they "translate" into each other? Or if I say have a 33.33$ trade with local NPCs would I have only 9% of GDP left for trading? But in the next year it would be 9.x%. So I would still have to negotiate every year with changing numbers.
You are not understanding at all Nobody.
Trade between Player nations is PART of your core economy. Its that 20% divided between short and long distance trade.
Trade with Non Player nations is a BONUS, its NOT part of your core economy. Its not expressed in terms of GDP but in term of money value, which is a function of GDP of the minor nation. The economy of minor nations will grow at known and constant growth rates. Odds are 1% but thats up to the mod team.
Trade with a minor / non player nation is added on top of your core economy. Again for the example
Player nation A has trade treaty with Non Player nation B. Trade treaty is worth $N50.
Economy of nation A is $N4,000
When player nation A figures is income from taxes he adds the total of his core economy ($N4,000) plus his trade treaties with NON PLAYER / MINOR Nations. To come up with his total economy that can be taxed.
Does you understand this?
Michael
That's how I thought the colonies would work. If that's the case then I do understand, otherwise I don't understand the colonies ;)
Quote from: Nobody on September 21, 2011, 03:36:50 PM
That's how I thought the colonies would work. If that's the case then I do understand, otherwise I don't understand the colonies ;)
Bangs head against monitor slowly...
Try Z....
There is no trade with your colonies, just a route where your Merchant Marine moves raw materials and goods back and forth.
The above description is for trade with the Non Player Nations, when you turn them into colonies your trade treaty goes away as you have just ANNEXED them.
Clear?
Michael
Mike cool down, what I mean is that both are added to the GNP before calculating the tax income:
| home GNP | 3333 $ |
| NPC trade | 20 $ |
| from colonies | 50 $ |
| tax base | 3403 $ |
| --> 3% tax | 102.9 $ |
Right?
*takes close notes to figure out how to do that part of his spreadsheet (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5723.0.html).*
OK, so attempting to sum this up...
- Trade with Player Nations is considered part of our GDP and routes are all that need to be defined as the values are forced by the rules
- Trade with NPC's exists as adding into our base income at our individual tax rate. Routs need to be defined. Value depends on what?
- Colonies work like trade with NPCs, but the value is determined by how much investment is made in them (.5*N$ value?). Routes need to be defined. NPCs can become colonies. Is the opposite true?
- This collectively forms our base of taxable income, which we can then use however our hearts desire.
Aside from the few bold-faced questions, is this correct?
Ok.... before I get confused... :o
QuoteTrade with NPC's exists as adding into our base income at our individual tax rate. Routs need to be defined. Value depends on what?
The Value of your trade treaty is dependent upon the Economy of the NPC [Moderator Controlled] and the percentage of its foreign trade with you. An Exclusive trading agreement is theirfore always more proffitable but also much harder to maintain. As an Example technically Great Britain was the only country supposedly allowed to trade in or with the Origianl 13 Colonies. But the ungrateful wretches built their own ships and took up the age old trade of Smuggling and tax evasion. ???
QuoteColonies work like trade with NPCs, but the value is determined by how much investment is made in them (.5*N$ value?). Routes need to be defined. NPCs can become colonies. Is the opposite true?
I see no reason why a Colony cannot at some latter date become an NPR.....
Ok, is the rest of what I stated correct?
Fine Fine make me think before my first Caffine of the night has hit my blood stream.... ???
(.5*N$ value?). so the answer is Yes.... 1/2 the value of your investment..... Lord I hate the smell of math in the morning.... :-X
Ok, thanks.
*throws Vector Calc book at Charles*
*smiles*
What is the Old Saying... Sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me...
*picks up a very large book*... Hmm Websters Unabridged English Dictionary.... *throws it back at Snip*
Ok Charles... that is cruel and unusual punishment!
Hmmmm...
*Picks up the book he just threw at snip*...... *turns to the definition of Punishment*....
Now if I recall correctly the definition of Punishment uses terms like the unusual or unexpected or Harsh. Punishment can not be Cruel or Unusual or it is not punishment....?????
So we could conclude that all Forms of Punishment are outlawed by the US Constitution. ;)
Quote from: Nobody on September 21, 2011, 03:57:33 PM
Mike cool down, what I mean is that both are added to the GNP before calculating the tax income:
| home GNP | 3333 $ |
| NPC trade | 20 $ |
| from colonies | 50 $ |
| tax base | 3403 $ |
| --> 3% tax | 102.9 $ |
Right?
YES
The reason I am getting annoyed is we need to be clear on what the different things are.
Michael
Be carrefull to All
QuoteShip construction Cost
Regular naval ship construction cost is $1 for every 1000t of normal displacement.
Submarines, torpedo boats, destroyers and auxiliaries are priced differently.
The calculation of warships are not made on light displacement but on
Normal Displacement.
Jef ;)
I have a few more questions.
In the Slipway section a "L:B:D of 21:3:1" is mentioned. Is that an actual limit for slipways, or just an example? (if it is my slips would have to be at least 154 m long, maybe even 189. Although the ships will be only ~120 m)
Also there are detailed examples how drydocks can be expanded, but what about slips?
And how much time does it take to build or expand naval facilities?
Oh, and what about floating (aka movable) drydocks?
And there is still the "colonies contribute to growth only" bit in there - although they don't, do they?
EDIT:
And there seem to be an error in either the rules or the example on colonies.
Quote from: Jefgte on September 25, 2011, 04:24:47 AMThe calculation of warships are not made on light displacement but on Normal Displacement.
In-character Nipponese practice is meant to be idiosyncratic in this field. You'll note that my 'building tonnage' discussion at the bottom of that post calculates from the Normal tonnage of 3,951, rather than the 'fleet list' tonnage of 3,750.
Quote from: Nobody on September 25, 2011, 05:32:43 AM
I have a few more questions.
In the Slipway section a "L:B:D of 21:3:1" is mentioned. Is that an actual limit for slipways, or just an example? (if it is my slips would have to be at least 154 m long, maybe even 189. Although the ships will be only ~120 m)
Also there are detailed examples how drydocks can be expanded, but what about slips?
And how much time does it take to build or expand naval facilities?
Oh, and what about floating (aka movable) drydocks?
And there is still the "colonies contribute to growth only" bit in there - although they don't, do they?
EDIT:
And there seem to be an error in either the rules or the example on colonies.
Sorry slipways are pure length, Guinness was trying to draw a comparison between costs was all. Math for slipways is JUST A slipway of X m length costs X^3/600.
Slipways can't be expanded, they just are X length.
I will try to purge the colonial growth stuff tonight or tomorrow morning; thanks for the catch.
Michael
If I am not mistaken, with a cost determined by the furmula X^3/600, a slip is a heck more expensive than a dock. ;)
A 150x20x8m dock is $14.4 while a 150m slip is $5,625 and thus almost 400 times more expensive than a drydock. ::)
Quote from: Walter on September 26, 2011, 01:48:07 PM
If I am not mistaken, with a cost determined by the furmula X^3/600, a slip is a heck more expensive than a dock. ;)
A 150x20x8m dock is $14.4 while a 150m slip is $5,625 and thus almost 400 times more expensive than a drydock. ::)
5,6 is not 400 times more then 14 and a bit...
150^3/600=5625
Also:
$5,625 = $5625 = five thousand six hundred and twenty five
$5.625 = $5 5/8 = five and five eights
Silly questions:
1) There is no upkeep on slipways, correct?
2) If I want to build colliers do I simply follow the rules for tenders?
Gona go out on a limb here
Quote from: Darman on September 26, 2011, 08:01:04 PM
1) There is no upkeep on slipways, correct?
Yes
Quote from: Darman on September 26, 2011, 08:01:04 PM
2) If I want to build colliers do I simply follow the rules for tenders?
Yes
Quote from: Walter on September 26, 2011, 03:19:44 PM
150^3/600=5625
Also:
$5,625 = $5625 = five thousand six hundred and twenty five
$5.625 = $5 5/8 = five and five eights
Blink Blink...
cost is N$5.625
150*150*150 = 3375000 Divide that by 600 and you get $5625. If you divide it by 600000, then you get $5.625. *runs away* ;D