So, seeing as the CSA actually does have the shipyard capacity to build battlecruisers, I decided to design one. I actually designed two of them, one is a more balanced battlecruiser design, while the other is a Fisherite design and manages to squeeze out 1.3 more knots in top speed with a good bit less armor.
Balanced Design
CSA Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
41,252 t light; 43,661 t standard; 47,820 t normal; 51,147 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
872.70 ft / 872.70 ft x 105.32 ft (Bulges 111.88 ft) x 31.17 ft (normal load)
266.00 m / 266.00 m x 32.10 m (Bulges 34.10 m) x 9.50 m
Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 17,208 lbs / 7,805 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 652.00 ft / 198.73 m 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.00" / 25 mm 652.00 ft / 198.73 m 27.10 ft / 8.26 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 257,495 shp / 192,091 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 18,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,487 tons
Complement:
1,616 - 2,101
Cost:
£10.075 million / $40.299 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,855 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 10,798 tons, 22.6 %
- Belts: 3,565 tons, 7.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 654 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 2,679 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 3,560 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 341 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 9,003 tons, 18.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,095 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,568 tons, 13.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
55,458 lbs / 25,155 Kg = 32.9 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 6.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 7.9 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.48 ft / 9.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Stern: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Average freeboard: 25.24 ft / 7.69 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.0 %
Waterplane Area: 64,142 Square feet or 5,959 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,003 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.11
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Fisherite Design
CSA Fisherite Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
41,252 t light; 43,661 t standard; 47,820 t normal; 51,147 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
872.70 ft / 872.70 ft x 105.32 ft (Bulges 111.88 ft) x 31.17 ft (normal load)
266.00 m / 266.00 m x 32.10 m (Bulges 34.10 m) x 9.50 m
Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 17,208 lbs / 7,805 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 720.00 ft / 219.46 m 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.00" / 25 mm 720.00 ft / 219.46 m 27.10 ft / 8.26 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 1.50" / 38 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 299,585 shp / 223,490 Kw = 35.30 kts
Range 18,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,487 tons
Complement:
1,616 - 2,101
Cost:
£10.562 million / $42.247 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,855 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 9,239 tons, 19.3 %
- Belts: 2,901 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 722 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 1,773 tons, 3.7 %
- Armour Deck: 3,560 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 284 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 10,475 tons, 21.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,183 tons, 40.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,568 tons, 13.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,331 lbs / 23,283 Kg = 30.4 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 8.4 ft / 2.6 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.48 ft / 9.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Stern: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Average freeboard: 27.05 ft / 8.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 126.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 200.9 %
Waterplane Area: 64,142 Square feet or 5,959 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 993 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.22
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Before I comment on the Designs which will take more time. The CSA and a bunch of other states sort of came to an agreement. No nation may have more then 2 Ships totaling 40K Tons Light Displacement with a 10% Error Clause. So your 41K ton ships would violate that agreement.
1% slack room...
I modified the ship to make it meet the limit. What do you think about it now?
CSA Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
40,396 t light; 42,805 t standard; 47,820 t normal; 51,832 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
872.70 ft / 872.70 ft x 105.32 ft (Bulges 111.88 ft) x 31.17 ft (normal load)
266.00 m / 266.00 m x 32.10 m (Bulges 34.10 m) x 9.50 m
Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 17,208 lbs / 7,805 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 650.00 ft / 198.12 m 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
0.80" / 20 mm 650.00 ft / 198.12 m 27.10 ft / 8.26 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 257,495 shp / 192,091 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 21,930nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,027 tons
Complement:
1,616 - 2,101
Cost:
£10.004 million / $40.015 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,855 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 10,212 tons, 21.4 %
- Belts: 3,111 tons, 6.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 521 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 2,679 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 3,560 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 341 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 9,003 tons, 18.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,925 tons, 39.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,424 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
55,553 lbs / 25,198 Kg = 32.9 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 6.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.48 ft / 9.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Stern: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Average freeboard: 25.24 ft / 7.69 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.0 %
Waterplane Area: 64,142 Square feet or 5,959 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 204 lbs/sq ft or 994 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.10
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ok...
1. Engine tech limitations of 40,000 HP per Shaft your ship has over 60k Hp per shaft.
2. Jackie Fisher would have been proud Egg Shell armed with Sledge Hammer
Other then those its not a bad ship its faster then anything else afloat because its engines are so much larger then anyone elses more SHP per shaft then anyone else by 50%.
Just one thing...
QuoteEnter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922
Displacement:
40,343 t light; 42,298 t standard; 45,308 t normal; 47,716 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
799.17 ft / 793.96 ft x 107.94 ft x 30.84 ft (normal load)
243.59 m / 242.00 m x 32.90 m x 9.40 m
Armament:
8 - 15.75" / 400 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,204.62lbs / 1,000.00kg shells, 1922 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x3 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1922 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.38lbs / 3.80kg shells, 1922 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1922 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,681 lbs / 8,474 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 465.88 ft / 142.00 m 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 543.31 ft / 165.60 m 29.07 ft / 8.86 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 142,000 shp / 105,932 Kw = 29.05 kts
Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 5,418 tons)
Complement:
1,552 - 2,018
Cost:
£10.463 million / $41.851 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,083 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 14,981 tons, 33.1 %
- Belts: 4,524 tons, 10.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,150 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 4,364 tons, 9.6 %
- Armour Deck: 4,565 tons, 10.1 %
- Conning Tower: 377 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 4,817 tons, 10.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,912 tons, 39.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,965 tons, 11.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 550 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,994 lbs / 23,584 Kg = 26.6 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (16 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (75 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m (16.73 ft / 5.10 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Stern: 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Average freeboard: 22.95 ft / 7.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.5 %
Waterplane Area: 62,680 Square feet or 5,823 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1,019 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.26
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ah, the fresh smell of boomboom in the morning ;).
Reading the CSA tech list, it said that 1917 technology gave unlimited power per shaft. If that isn't the case, any advice on how I could go about reducing the HP per shaft or otherwise make this ship able to reach a speed of at least 32 knots?
IIRC (which I may not as it was before my time here), the CSA tech list is an older one that should probably be moved over to the new rules (along with a few others)
On the ship itself, well I am an armor junky (almost worse then Valles ;D). Im not opposed to BCs, but I like the German style ones better. Aside from the already pointed out rules and treaty problems, your getting better. What I find helpful is to pick a historical design that is close to what I want and modify it to suit my needs. Do you have access to Conway's All the Worlds Fighting Ships?
*salivating* Now THAT is a manly battlecruiser! Armor is for sissies! ;D
Quote from: snip on February 28, 2011, 06:07:14 PM
IIRC (which I may not as it was before my time here), the CSA tech list is an older one that should probably be moved over to the new rules (along with a few others)
On the ship itself, well I am an armor junky (almost worse then Valles ;D). Im not opposed to BCs, but I like the German style ones better. Aside from the already pointed out rules and treaty problems, your getting better. What I find helpful is to pick a historical design that is close to what I want and modify it to suit my needs. Do you have access to Conway's All the Worlds Fighting Ships?
This is actually a CSA version of a Lexington, with about 70,000 more horsepower and torpedo blisters.
I am in favor of heavy armor myself, but I do love battlecruisers. They are the Rolls Royces of the navy, and far more impressive than the fast battleships because of what they have to give up for their speed.
Quote from: Desertfox on February 28, 2011, 06:36:29 PM
*salivating* Now THAT is a manly battlecruiser! Armor is for sissies! ;D
Gran Columbia Design: Codename "Now that's a Swissman" :)
QuoteEnter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920
Displacement:
42,734 t light; 45,797 t standard; 66,343 t normal; 82,780 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
900.00 ft / 900.00 ft x 120.00 ft x 43.00 ft (normal load)
274.32 m / 274.32 m x 36.58 m x 13.11 m
Armament:
2 - 31.50" / 800 mm guns in single mounts, 15,622.08lbs / 7,086.06kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 31,244 lbs / 14,172 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
80 - 25.6" / 650 mm above water torpedoes
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 5 shafts, 361,601 shp / 269,755 Kw = 35.50 kts
Range 25,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 36,983 tons
Complement:
2,066 - 2,686
Cost:
£15.473 million / $61.893 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,906 tons, 5.9 %
Machinery: 12,643 tons, 19.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 25,185 tons, 38.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 23,609 tons, 35.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,000 tons, 1.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
60,249 lbs / 27,329 Kg = 3.9 x 31.5 " / 800 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
Metacentric height 12.2 ft / 3.7 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 33.00 ft / 10.06 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 24.88 ft / 7.58 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 39.2 %
Waterplane Area: 71,958 Square feet or 6,685 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 239 lbs/sq ft or 1,164 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.63
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
The problem is a 40.4 kton ship is a HUGE ship, you are only allowed to build two ships of 40 kton with 1% leeway under the Richmond Treaty.
Now that you have a 7" MB, that's just a huge national loss waiting to happen. You don't need to go 34 kts, I recommend dropping the speed a bit so you can at least have semi-decent armor.
I would consider a 32 kt design with better protection to be vastly better. Honestly speaking, 2 knots doesn't net much value in exchange for the golden twinky status.
Quote from: Logi on February 28, 2011, 08:13:29 PM
The problem is a 40.4 kton ship is a HUGE ship, you are only allowed to build two ships of 40 kton with 1% leeway under the Richmond Treaty.
Now that you have a 7" MB, that's just a huge national loss waiting to happen. You don't need to go 34 kts, I recommend dropping the speed a bit so you can at least have semi-decent armor.
I would consider a 32 kt design with better protection to be vastly better. Honestly speaking, 2 knots doesn't net much value in exchange for the golden twinky status.
Well, with it being overpowered anyways I will be working on the design tomorrow in order to bring total HP down to 160,000, increasing armor. It will thus become either a fairly high speed battlecruiser or a fast battleship. I will probably make a few lighter battlecruisers with very high speeds later on though.
8 X 15", isn't overpowered, it's somewhat underpowered for it's displacement vs. it's protection.
For that, it should either have even more firepower or more protection. :-\
I meant in terms of propulsion, not armament. It has twin 15 inch gun turrets because that is the largest gun and turret in the CSA, but I suppose I can always develop 16 or 18 inch guns for the ship. 15 inch guns are pretty good for their weight though, and I do think that armor is more important than more powerful guns. I'll have to see how much weight is added by the 16s and 18s, although 18s are pretty heavy for what they offer in real life and also from what I saw when toying around with my first Springsharp ship.
Is it possible to use a 17 inch gun? That gives a good compromise between the 16s and the 18s, although if I were to develop it would it be considered a 16 inch or an 18 inch gun for research purposes?
Anything over 16" is 18" on our chart and requires that level of technological progression.
Don't built too big 8)
If your BB receive torpedoes salvo from a 1000t submarine ...
Admiral Delta :'( :'( :'(
Jef ;)
New and improved:
CSA Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
40,381 t light; 42,790 t standard; 47,820 t normal; 51,844 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
872.70 ft / 872.70 ft x 105.32 ft (Bulges 111.88 ft) x 31.17 ft (normal load)
266.00 m / 266.00 m x 32.10 m (Bulges 34.10 m) x 9.50 m
Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 17,208 lbs / 7,805 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 490.00 ft / 149.35 m 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
3.00" / 76 mm 490.00 ft / 149.35 m 27.10 ft / 8.26 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 159,914 shp / 119,296 Kw = 30.13 kts
Range 22,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,055 tons
Complement:
1,616 - 2,101
Cost:
£8.874 million / $35.494 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,855 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 14,171 tons, 29.6 %
- Belts: 3,175 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,474 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 3,191 tons, 6.7 %
- Armour Deck: 5,933 tons, 12.4 %
- Conning Tower: 397 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 5,591 tons, 11.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,363 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,439 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
69,819 lbs / 31,669 Kg = 41.4 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 11.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 7.7 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.48 ft / 9.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Stern: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Average freeboard: 23.12 ft / 7.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.7 %
Waterplane Area: 64,142 Square feet or 5,959 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 982 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.03
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Rather thick deck and thin belt, when there is no real experience with plunging fire. There's no warrant for a 5" deck whilst leaving such a thin belt. I personally put 4" (in imperial units) as the reasonable limit without warranting a increase in overall protection with it.
re 17" Main Armament
- I looked at it in a thread a while back on 40k ton Designs "Leviathan" - 8 x 17" fits nicely with decent armour, 28 knots and normal range ....
- could one want more ??
Version 4, it has armor slightly weaker than a pre-war dreadnought now.
CSA Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
40,361 t light; 42,790 t standard; 47,820 t normal; 51,844 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
872.70 ft / 872.70 ft x 105.32 ft (Bulges 111.88 ft) x 31.17 ft (normal load)
266.00 m / 266.00 m x 32.10 m (Bulges 34.10 m) x 9.50 m
Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 17,208 lbs / 7,805 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 152
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 486.00 ft / 148.13 m 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.00" / 25 mm 486.00 ft / 148.13 m 24.75 ft / 7.54 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 157,261 shp / 117,317 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 22,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,055 tons
Complement:
1,616 - 2,101
Cost:
£8.841 million / $35.365 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,855 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 14,295 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 4,206 tons, 8.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 445 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 3,257 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 5,933 tons, 12.4 %
- Conning Tower: 454 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 5,499 tons, 11.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,313 tons, 38.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,459 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
67,897 lbs / 30,798 Kg = 40.2 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.48 ft / 9.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Stern: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Average freeboard: 23.12 ft / 7.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.7 %
Waterplane Area: 64,142 Square feet or 5,959 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 980 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.02
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
your steam is way to high with proportion to the rest of the hull. Are you using the default freeboard?
You don't need 5'' of deck armour for any reason. At all.
Quote from: Logi on March 01, 2011, 05:54:08 PM
Rather thick deck and thin belt, when there is no real experience with plunging fire. There's no warrant for a 5" deck whilst leaving such a thin belt. I personally put 4" (in imperial units) as the reasonable limit without warranting a increase in overall protection with it.
Also, it's a huge waste of one of the two 40 kton ship slots allowed by the Richmond Naval Treaty IMO.
Quote from: snip on March 03, 2011, 06:08:16 PM
your steam is way to high with proportion to the rest of the hull. Are you using the default freeboard?
Default, but I raised freeboard everywhere but the stem by 0.5 meters.
the stem is way to high in the default it gives you. I have never seen a ship with a ~3m rise on the stem. That would play so much havoc with the gun arcs over the bow. I also agree, this is a colossal waste of a 40kton ship for the CSA.
Quote from: snip on March 03, 2011, 06:40:41 PM
the stem is way to high in the default it gives you. I have never seen a ship with a ~3m rise on the stem. That would play so much havoc with the gun arcs over the bow.
Vanguard
it was 3m? Guess without a drawing I am jumping to conclutions
Quote from: snip on March 03, 2011, 06:40:41 PM
the stem is way to high in the default it gives you. I have never seen a ship with a ~3m rise on the stem. That would play so much havoc with the gun arcs over the bow. I also agree, this is a colossal waste of a 40kton ship for the CSA.
I can actually bring it down to only slightly higher than the rest of the ship without having anything happen to handling or hull strength. So it turns out that the stem actually can be much lower.
What do you think about the rest of the design? The reference to Vanguard made me look it up, and this design is actually rather similar to it, except for being longer and lighter in displacement.
Quote from: snip on March 03, 2011, 06:47:12 PM
it was 3m? Guess without a drawing I am jumping to conclutions
Judging by the pic on Navypedia it looks to be at least 1 full deck higher at the stem than the main deck..so 3m isn't absurd. Remember though, Vanguard, like KGV before it, could not fire A turret directly ahead at 0 elev.
EDIT: It's 22 pixel from waterline to main deck and 33 from waterline to the stem. If the main deck height was the same as the KGVs it's 24' so the stem is ~30.25' up so not quite 3m.
So, I've revised it again into a fast battleship. What do you think of it now, with its very thick armor? If the armor is bumped down by two inches on the belt and across the main turrets it can pack eight 16 inch guns. I don't have a good weight for what a 16 inch shell would be in CSA service though.
CSA Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
40,303 t light; 42,790 t standard; 47,820 t normal; 51,844 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
872.70 ft / 872.70 ft x 105.32 ft (Bulges 111.88 ft) x 31.17 ft (normal load)
266.00 m / 266.00 m x 32.10 m (Bulges 34.10 m) x 9.50 m
Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 17,208 lbs / 7,805 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 158
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 580.00 ft / 176.78 m 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.00" / 25 mm 580.00 ft / 176.78 m 24.75 ft / 7.54 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 20.0" / 508 mm 14.0" / 356 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 94,427 shp / 70,443 Kw = 26.22 kts
Range 22,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,055 tons
Complement:
1,616 - 2,101
Cost:
£8.109 million / $32.438 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,855 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 16,573 tons, 34.7 %
- Belts: 7,284 tons, 15.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 531 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 3,557 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 4,747 tons, 9.9 %
- Conning Tower: 454 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,302 tons, 6.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,173 tons, 38.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,517 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
86,698 lbs / 39,325 Kg = 51.4 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 13.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 17.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
- Stern: 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
- Average freeboard: 22.47 ft / 6.85 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.9 %
Waterplane Area: 64,142 Square feet or 5,959 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 978 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.02
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Armor is way to thick. You can't just slab armor on until you have no more composite strength. The main belt has to be rolled and processed. General rule of thumb is that no nation can produce a sheet of metal thicker than 14" without suffering from a rapid drop in armor quality.
it's getting into the right zone as a Heavy 40k ton Fast BB
- still suggest tweaks on Armour - max is 14-15" - although you could add a bit splinter armour (1-1.5") for Magazines
- the Barbettes need to be more than 10" - maybe 13" whilst the Other Gunhouse - Turret roof, sides + back is thicker than needed - 7-8" should do it
Basically for 40 k tons you can have 8 x 15" + proper BB protection at 28-9 knots
more speed can be had for 160k shp - but will need to drop firepower/armour :(
small points:
The Bulge is only 3' each side - not sure it serves much purpose
I think you might want Clipper bow on Fast BB - make it look good - angle 15-20 degrees
This is an example of quite balanced design - but deck armour is too thick at 6" for this period - 4" enough + Seaboat is excessive at 1.38 (what was I thinking at the time?)
- so 29 knots seems feasible ....
40k t, Large BC laid down 1918
Displacement:
39,713 t light; 41,709 t standard; 44,028 t normal; 45,884 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
869.99 ft / 856.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 31.75 ft (normal load)
265.17 m / 260.91 m x 32.92 m x 9.68 m
Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,950.00lbs / 884.51kg shells, 1918 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (10x2 guns), 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 1918 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
6 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.00lbs / 6.80kg shells, 1918 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,506 lbs / 7,487 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 433.00 ft / 131.98 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 265.00 ft / 80.77 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
158.00 ft / 48.16 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 320.00 ft / 97.54 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.80" / 46 mm 491.00 ft / 149.66 m 31.00 ft / 9.45 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 13.0" / 330 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
- Armour deck: 6.00" / 152 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 113,948 shp / 85,006 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 9,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,174 tons
Complement:
1,519 - 1,975
Cost:
£6.960 million / $27.838 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,803 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 16,151 tons, 36.7 %
- Belts: 4,525 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,014 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 3,186 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 6,996 tons, 15.9 %
- Conning Tower: 430 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 4,111 tons, 9.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,299 tons, 39.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,315 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 0.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
67,721 lbs / 30,718 Kg = 40.1 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.525
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.26 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 22.05 ft / 6.72 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.8 %
Waterplane Area: 63,030 Square feet or 5,856 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 968 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.08
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
The Maori have rolled consistent belt plates as thick as 15", though even I don't know what their rejection percentages were like, but I don't think anyone else has gone in for that. The CSA and the Maori have pretty friendly relations, so depending on my own build schedule, you should be able to order anything up to 40cm (15.7") belt plates from Maori armor mills.
Quote from: Valles on March 04, 2011, 11:28:22 AM
The Maori have rolled consistent belt plates as thick as 15", though even I don't know what their rejection percentages were like, but I don't think anyone else has gone in for that.
Yes, but didn't you do a story on that and spend some IC $$ on the process?
Quote from: Delta Force on March 03, 2011, 11:19:36 PM
I don't have a good weight for what a 16 inch shell would be in CSA service though.
CSA 16" shell would most likely be a 2,500lbs shell, judging by historical practice.
What kind of limit is there on turrets? Aren't those cast as one large piece so can have thicker armor than the belt?
Quote from: Delta Force on March 04, 2011, 12:58:11 PM
What kind of limit is there on turrets? Aren't those cast as one large piece so can have thicker armor than the belt?
Depends. If you use face-hardened armor (Class "A" in US nomenclature) it's probably that 15.7(40cm) Maori, or 13.8(35cm) from elsewhere. However, if you use homogeneous (Class "B") the thickest I can find is the 19" solid plate on USS Alabama. Most of the SoDak BBs had 18.5-19.5" face plates, but other than Alabama they were 2 plates laminated together. IMHO, I'd say 18" Class "B" or 15" Class "A".
This is something of a light battlecruiser. It carries six 16 inch guns in two triple turrets, and has a top speed of 29 knots, all for a displacement of 29,750 tons.
John S. Mosby, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
29,750 t light; 31,473 t standard; 33,708 t normal; 35,496 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721.78 ft / 721.78 ft x 98.43 ft x 28.58 ft (normal load)
220.00 m / 220.00 m x 30.00 m x 8.71 m
Armament:
6 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2,500.00lbs / 1,133.98kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (6x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 15,608 lbs / 7,080 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 470.00 ft / 143.26 m 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 470.00 ft / 143.26 m 24.75 ft / 7.54 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,722 shp / 90,059 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,023 tons
Complement:
1,243 - 1,617
Cost:
£7.069 million / $28.276 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,617 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 10,028 tons, 29.7 %
- Belts: 4,006 tons, 11.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 861 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 2,147 tons, 6.4 %
- Armour Deck: 2,833 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 180 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,221 tons, 12.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,384 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,959 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,777 lbs / 18,496 Kg = 19.9 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 6.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.581
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m (19.85 ft / 6.05 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Stern: 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Average freeboard: 19.83 ft / 6.04 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.3 %
Waterplane Area: 51,050 Square feet or 4,743 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 192 lbs/sq ft or 938 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
I have concerns that that would fit...
Quote from: TexanCowboy on March 21, 2011, 04:16:25 PM
I have concerns that that would fit...
Do you mean in terms of the armament? The beam is only 3 meters less than the Iowas and 2 less than the 1920s South Dakotas. It might be a tight fit, but the ship can definitely fit triple 16s.
1. The CSA doesn't have a 16" gun as of yet. However they have a rather nice 15"/40(maybe even 45 by now, have to go report digging) firing a 2,000lbs shell. I'd start with it if you want a lay down by 1920.
2. While 30m is probably enough beam to fit a 16" triple, the 0.581 block coefficient combined with the 30m beam and the TDS makes me think TexanCowboy may be right. However, if you see #1 this would most likely solve your issues as it is smaller, and a twin mount. 8x15 may be doable with little tinkering and minor weight gain.
3. 8" Conning Tower armor is neither fish nor fowl. It's too thin to stop an AP round, yet to thick to let it pass through without arming it. All 8" will do is guarantee you tower crew is scrambled by the 1st hit. If you want to STOP a round, 12-15", if you want to stop HE and splinters 2" is enough and SHOULD let BB caliber AP rounds pass through w/o arming.
4. See # 3 in regards to your secondary armor. 6" is defiantly heavy enough to stop DD and CL rounds and most CA rounds at range, but not anything heavier. On the other hand, 3" would work just as well, still stopping DD rounds and CL/CA rounds at range, and still not stopping BB rounds, while being a)Cheaper and b)Lighter. Lighter leads to faster training and elevation (not really seen in Springsharp, but at least considered, AFAIK, in wargamming.)
Quote from: Delta Force on March 21, 2011, 04:38:57 PM
Quote from: TexanCowboy on March 21, 2011, 04:16:25 PM
I have concerns that that would fit...
Do you mean in terms of the armament? The beam is only 3 meters less than the Iowas and 2 less than the 1920s South Dakotas. It might be a tight fit, but the ship can definitely fit triple 16s.
The Iowa's forward 16'' turrets were some of the most cramped to ever see service, and the 1920s South Dakotas had a much larger BC.
Of couse this design cannot be layed down in 1920 as the CSA has no 16" gun as Sam pointed out. Also, 6 guns is the absolute bare minumen for effective FC in this timeframe, so expect it to take much longer for this ship to get the range right. With its thin armor for the guns it mounts compared to some BBs around, it may not have that time. As the current trends go, BCs of all forms appear to be phased out in favor of Fast BBs. IMO, these are worse ships then the newest class of CSA BBs and really are not needed based on the ships that the CSA has and how those classes can be built on.
CSA naval artillery
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=3136.0
Nice drawings made by Guinness ;)
Your SS must use these guns, turrets & shells weights.
Jef ;)
Quote from: Jefgte on March 21, 2011, 04:52:01 PM
CSA naval artillery
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=3136.0
Nice drawings made by Guinness ;)
Your SS must use these guns, turrets & shells weights.
Jef ;)
Until you've designed your own, that is. Gun research is here (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=79.msg35722#msg35722)
Can we calculate the muzzle energy by using metric units? I'm from the US, but I do prefer to do math using metric units since they are more intuitive.
I think that there is some kind of decimal error with the formulas given though. Can someone run me through what the muzzle energy would be for a 16/45 using the formula?
Quote from: Delta Force on March 21, 2011, 05:58:01 PM
Can we calculate the muzzle energy by using metric units? I'm from the US, but I do prefer to do math using metric units since they are more intuitive.
I think that there is some kind of decimal error with the formulas given though. Can someone run me through what the muzzle energy would be for a 16/45 using the formula?
7372.8
Quote...but I do prefer to do math using metric units since they are more intuitive.
...
I agree too, I can count on my fingers :D :D :D
Quote from: Sachmle on March 21, 2011, 06:32:53 PM
Quote from: Delta Force on March 21, 2011, 05:58:01 PM
Can we calculate the muzzle energy by using metric units? I'm from the US, but I do prefer to do math using metric units since they are more intuitive.
I think that there is some kind of decimal error with the formulas given though. Can someone run me through what the muzzle energy would be for a 16/45 using the formula?
7372.8
What units are for that? I did the math earlier but I think the formula is off by a decimal place, since I ended up being able to lob something like a 20 metric ton shell at a km a second.
Quote from: Delta Force on March 21, 2011, 05:58:01 PM
Can we calculate the muzzle energy by using metric units? I'm from the US, but I do prefer to do math using metric units since they are more intuitive.
I think that there is some kind of decimal error with the formulas given though. Can someone run me through what the muzzle energy would be for a 16/45 using the formula?
100MJ/m3 is the average energy per gun bore volume, if you prefer SI.
- call me boring - but to have a Big Brother to Enterprise - 40 k tons, 8 x 15"(or 9 if you have Triple Mount yet) , 28/29 knots and good BB level protection seems the best route to go ...
I sacrificed main guns for a very high speed, and made it 35,000 tons so it doesn't count as a treaty battlecruiser. The lower displacement worked more to my advantage than against it, since the design is now much more optimized and can get a higher speed while still having near battleship levels of armor.
CSA Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
35,000 t light; 36,743 t standard; 40,119 t normal; 42,820 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
885.83 ft / 885.83 ft x 98.43 ft x 29.36 ft (normal load)
270.00 m / 270.00 m x 30.00 m x 8.95 m
Armament:
6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (10x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 13,008 lbs / 5,900 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 128
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 535.00 ft / 163.07 m 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 535.00 ft / 163.07 m 24.75 ft / 7.54 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160,000 shp / 119,360 Kw = 31.16 kts
Range 16,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,077 tons
Complement:
1,416 - 1,842
Cost:
£7.527 million / $30.110 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,401 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 11,207 tons, 27.9 %
- Belts: 4,517 tons, 11.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 980 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 1,985 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 3,372 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 353 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 5,594 tons, 13.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,398 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,119 tons, 12.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
56,827 lbs / 25,776 Kg = 33.7 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 7.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.16 ft / 6.45 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.16 ft / 6.45 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.16 ft / 6.45 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.16 ft / 6.45 m
- Stern: 21.16 ft / 6.45 m
- Average freeboard: 21.16 ft / 6.45 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173.0 %
Waterplane Area: 60,760 Square feet or 5,645 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 193 lbs/sq ft or 942 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.08
- Longitudinal: 0.98
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
May take on what I think you're trying to do
Up-gunned Enterprise/Fast Tennessee, CSA 1st Class Cruiser/Battleship laid down 1920
Displacement:
35,000 t light; 36,793 t standard; 40,112 t normal; 42,767 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
836.62 ft / 828.02 ft x 105.61 ft x 29.86 ft (normal load)
255.00 m / 252.38 m x 32.19 m x 9.10 m
Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (6x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,814 lbs / 7,627 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 105
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 538.00 ft / 163.98 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 538.00 ft / 163.98 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.50" / 38 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 143,000 shp / 106,678 Kw = 30.02 kts
Range 9,925nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,974 tons
Complement:
1,416 - 1,842
Cost:
£8.117 million / $32.467 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,796 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 11,481 tons, 28.6 %
- Belts: 4,407 tons, 11.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 806 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 2,617 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 3,348 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 303 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 5,000 tons, 12.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,362 tons, 40.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,112 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 360 tons, 0.9 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,825 lbs / 23,508 Kg = 30.7 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.538
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.84 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.31 ft / 1.01 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.99 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.74 ft / 8.15 m
- Mid (53 %): 22.74 ft / 6.93 m (15.26 ft / 4.65 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (17 %): 16.73 ft / 5.10 m
- Stern: 18.73 ft / 5.71 m
- Average freeboard: 21.58 ft / 6.58 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.0 %
Waterplane Area: 60,332 Square feet or 5,605 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 967 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.06
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Well, the concept is somewhat Fisherite in that it is intended to have a very high speed to allow it to pick its engagements. It's about a knot slower than the fastest light cruisers and 3 knots or so faster than the fastest battleship. I might actually reduce its beam to 27 meters or so (the narrowest possible under the guidelines, and also the average beam of Royal Navy 15 inch battlecruisers) to try to further up the speed by reducing resistance.
2 x 15" for 1 knot is a tough sacrifice - not sure is worth it - esp. as in Open Seaway Big Fast ship can retain High Speed much better than CL or CA - their speed advantage on paper soon disappears ...
is the Flush deck deliberate choice - I think at 30+ knots more freeboard useful at the bow ..
personally - although I like the extra speed - I'd still go for a 29 knot design with more armour :)
That is true, in the North Atlantic and Pacific it is rather stormy so the speed advantage of the smaller ships should be lessened.