www.navalism.org

Naval Command, Djibouti
Reports of the battle at the Rift entrance with the NS fleet are being analyzed, reworked, rehashed and redone. Bureaucratic additions, pricetags and recommendations fly around before condensing into a report to Paris.

"Omar, are you sure we want to sell the Demarce IV's?"

"Yes, I'm sure, this graph shows clearly that the cost of these ships is abnormal high compared to the losses they caused to the enemy. it seems we could do cheaper and better with unarmed ships of the same size and speed with underwater armor alone. Mobile torpedo nets as it springs to mind."

"That's ridicolous, no politician would allow that. Nor would Admiral Geon. But yes, your graph shows that the D IV's don't mix well in our battleline. To big to be expendable, to weak to be in the battleline itself and to large and unwieldy to nimbly dodge torpedo's. Maybe good ships for Papeete. big enough to be scary, fast enough to get around, and with range to match the pacific."

"Whatever. I recommend to sell them. The resources are better spend in more Ocitanies."

Later

A book is on the table, and Omar is writing down a string of words in the form of a telegram. the language used, Arabic, but expressed in Roman letter to match the French telegraph system.The day after this telegram is send from a selected office, where nobody can read Romanised Arabic.

After bouncing around in the French telegraph network, the message is delivered at the Firenj Embassy in Paris. And from there, the message floats to Firenj.


Firenj City, Burj Al-Hadji (Ministry of the Navy)

Top floor, Office of the minister, Jaber Al-Taha Al-Saad

"Admiral Nasir, are these ships that bad, that the French do not want them, but our Navy does?"

"The ships won't fit in their Navy. The desire for powerful cruisers met some cost-cutting measures. The gun mount housings are too cramped, as two people required manhandling the heavy shells for the 8" guns. As a result, the firing cycle of these guns is not much shorter than capital ships with larger guns. Their inadequate maneuverability could be ascribed to their extreme draught, which also make them very vulnerable to torpedo hits. Possibly a pet design from a politically influentian industrialist. Instead of using them against other protected cruisers as open seas scouts, they were pressed into service as anti-destroyer screens, in coastal waters, for lack of more usable ships."

"How can we utilize them usefully?"

"Right now, I could suggest to use them for commerce raiding, they are faster and longer ranged than our new fast cruisers, the Demarce IVs are faster than most armored cruisers. Also faster than most Swiss ships, save a few of their large destroyers. The low rate of fire won't be that big of a disadvantage at longer ranges. This would allow us to close down most trade activity in [East] Australia."

"But they would be vulnerable were they encounter any massed torpedo attacks, won't they?"

"They should not get into a situation when they could not run from a massed torpedo attack?"

"These ships were exposed to such attack as they could not freely maneuver, their task was to protect larger ships. The Swiss, on the other hand, are willing to expend torpedoes on screening vessels, which we will have to consider in the future. Bu were the current rate of attrition continue, the Swiss won't have any destroyers left by the end of this year."

"What modifications would be necessary, were we to acquire them?"

"They might need a Fire Control update, but we are not familiar with the current French system. We have no experience with this gun caliber either, the shells might be too heavy, we would have to develop lighter shells to easier loading - like the similar effort done on the 14cm guns."

"It is a certainty that other nations, more favoured in Paris, will also be interested in buying the ships. I think time is essential, we might be able to grab the ships before anyone else could, if we act quickly. I will bring it up when I meet my brother [the emir]."

Paris, next week

"Ah minister Capet, you asked for a tad of information according to my secretary."

"Yes minister Lebrun. I got an equiry from our embassy in Burj Thrawn, Firenj. About the sale of the Demarce IV cruisers."

"How do they know that? We didn't get to the official declaration yet.  Who told you?"

"I wasn't told anything, just a diplomatical telegram asking about the sale,and how to conduct trade."

"'I'll tell you as soon we are sure about this. can we talk about this later on, but, the information should go any further."


[French events by Maddox]

Ah, Premier Galpoux, what a coïncidence I meet you here.

Broadly smiling Minister Capet approaches Galpoux at their common roost, Hotel Napoleon.
Coincidence, yeah right. When in France, and not in the office, you're here. Most of the time accompanied by a lovely lady of ancient name. By lack of companion, I smell work.

Very perceptive Premier. it's about our navy I want to talk to you.

That floating ,expensive piece of scrap you mean. We got our ass handed by a bunch of shellshocked, low on ammo, fuel and supplies New Swiss ships.

About that navy, yes. It seems we're going to sell that junkyard, and my Firenj contacts have indicated a keen interest in the Demarce IV's.

M*rd*, Minister Capet. I don't know how you, nor the Firenjians know. But for the time being keep it silent. But yes, we're going to sell some ships. Ships that don't fit in the navy. It's just a problem of to whom, and what ships.

(in the background, a small non descript guy leaves as soon this conversation goes over to other subjects)

Rockies contribution, with some small changes..

Meanwhile, in Cartagena...

The bell rang and the horses erupted from the gate to the cheers of thousands.  Atop the track, in the Presidential Suite, Rey Alizandro and Alexander Jardan watched the initial legs in silence; the French envoy then noted, "Filled with Hope is slow today; a shame, too, as I've got ten bolivars on her."

"Really?  On that old thing?", Rey asked, aghast.

"She's in excellent shape despite her age", Jardan replied.  "She responds well to Chavo whenever he's riding her."

Rey lifted his field glasses to have a closer look at the horse and rider.  "That's not Chavo", he said.

"I feared that you would say so", Jardan said.  "Strange, as he was supposed to be riding her today.  Ah, well.  Ten bolivars wasted, it seems.  Kingdom Come appears to have an insurmountable lead now."

"I think so", Rey said.  "Which is lovely, as I have a five on her."

"If I didn't know better, I'd suggest that you had arranged for Chavo not to ride this afternoon", Jardan remarked.

"But you do know better - I can't be bothered to micro-manage the races to my benefit", Rey replied.

"Very true", Jardan agreed, "Especially when your pick runs that well on her own.  Ha - speaking of old, slow horses, have I told you about the latest flap in Paris?"

"I don't believe so", Rey said, curious to see if it would have anything to do with horses.  The old Frenchman, while a valued friend and diplomat, was starting to show signs of senility. Or is it that his late wife isn't around to keep her husband straight? Behind every succesfull leader, there is a strong woman.

"The Firanjis found out that we're going to be getting rid of the Demarce Fours before anything had been announced privately.  In fact, Minister Capet got the news from the Firenj envoy, and he told Premier Galpoux!", Jardan chortled.
Not especially sure what a Demarce Four was, Rey asked, "Capet's back in Paris?  I think he was trying to get elected god-emperor of the Ukraine or thereabouts."

"I thought so too, but I guess that must be over with by now", Jardan remarked.  "Still - imagine the look on Galpoux's face.  He hates when his announcements get pre-empted."

"I can imagine", Rey agreed.  "So why is he taking this, er, step?"

"Parliament is convinced they're all useless because the Swiss sank some of them in the Rift Sea. So Premier Galpoux is appeasing his government after the most warntorn 5 years of France in the 20th century", Jardan replied.

"Right, right", Rey replied, pleased to know that they were probably talking about ships.  "How old are they?"

"The Demarces?  Oh, just a few years, really.  I imagine somebody could make good use of them."

"I'm curious to see if we'll be made aware of the move", Rey said.

"I'll see if that will be the case", Jardan agreed.  "Here we go, fourth race..."

Aidan Gallagher stepped back inside his office. After a long day of tours about Paris and the surrounding countryside, he only had a few scraps of paperwork to finish before he could head home and relax for the night. Taking his jacket off, he noticed the envelope sitting on his desk. "Katie, did anyone come by and drop off any communications?" His secretary, a stunning redhead named Katie, called back, "Nothing today sir, were you expecting something?" "No, no not at all, figured I would ask." Aidan moved over to the desk and grabbed the envelope. Checking it over, he saw no indicators of were it could have come from. The last time this happened, the results had been very interesting. Checking to see that Katie was preoccupied with work, he opened the envelope, pulling out the top sheet of paper. He began to read...

Aidan pulled out the remaining papers. His eyes widened slightly as he read. "Katie," he called "get me Captain McDermott, get him up here as quick as you can" "Yes sir, can I tell him what you need?" "Just tell him to get up here, NOW!"

Captain Teague McDermott, the highest ranking member of the Irish Navy in the ambassadorial mission to France, was currently in his office. Idly looking over some papers, he to was ready for the end of the day. The clicking of heals reached his ears much quicker than the wearer, giving him plenty of time to move any sensitive material out of sight. The ambassador's secretary appeared in is door, however he only had a moment to look her over before she said "Come with me" and started down the hall again.

Aidan was pacing his office when Teague walked in. "Close the door" Aidan said moving to grab the papers from the envelope. "Katie said you wanted to see me sir?" Teague asked "She didn't say why." "This, this is why." Aidan said as he handed over the papers. Teague looked them over. "So what do you think? Legitimate?" Aidan asked. "Seams like it" Teague's face showed he was thinking hard. "Do you know anyone in the French Navy that could confirm or deny this?" Aidan asked. "It seems a little sensitive for me to bring up in diplomatic channels, being new here and all." Teague gave the papers another glance then replied, "I will follow up on this, can I keep the papers?" Aidan nodded. Teague turned to leave. "As soon as I know, you will sir." Then he left. Aidan slumped down into his chair, still holding the cover letter, thinking he might need some exter help relaxing now.

The next day found Teague sitting outside the French Navy's offices in Paris. He had with him two dishes from a vendor down the street. He had to wait in line for quite some time, so he felt good in trying them out, but he had not taken a bite yet. "Captain McDermont, always a pleasure to see you" A French naval officer has joined Teague on the steps. "You said you had something of interest for me?" "Yes, that I do" Teague handed the man one of the dishes. "but first let us eat." "I am sorry captain, I have a lunch meeting in about half an hour" The officer said looking longingly at the dishes of food. "Not a problem then, this is what i called about." Teague handed the officer the papers. After quickly reading them, the officer looked at Teague, with an expression that was a blend of curiosity and rage. "How did you get this?" Teague expected spit to start flying from the Frenchman's mouth "Nobody is to know about this!" "So I take it these are true then?" Teauge said gesturing at the papers. "Yes, yes they are. How did you come about this?" The officer had calmed down somewhat. "Not your concern, the only important thing is that I have the information, and I want in on the dealing." The Frenchman began to fume again. "Or I could always arrange for this to be released publicly..." Teague let the words trail off. "Fine fine fine. Have it your way, damn Irishman." the officer spat. "I will keep you, and you only up to date on the issue. And if I ever find out how you got this information, I will make that man pay! Now if you will excuse me, I am late for a meeting." The officer handed the papers back to Teague and stormed off, swearing so loudly as to make several nearby ladies blush different shades of red. Teague chuckled to himself. "Now for lunch, if only I had some company." Teague said, picking up the two dishes and starting to walk in the direction of a rather attractive french woman sitting alone on a bench a sort distance off.

Swiss Naval HQ, French Division

"Grapevine has it that the French want to sell of the Demarce IVs."

"The IVs? Whoever told you that is pulling your leg. The French would be crazy to sell those ships off. Thirty-one knots and eight inch guns, those ships don't grow on trees. They completely outclass the Sydneys and all the remaining 8" cruisers we have. The Interceptors can handle them but we only have two of those. Pity we didn't sink more of them off Dijibouti. Nah, its probably disinformation to root out some of our spies."

October 1919
Kiev, Ukraine

Minister Capet and empress Flowranis had returned to Kiev. Ostensibly, their purpose was to return to continue waiting....and waiting....and waiting some more, for the voting process to decide who would be the next King, or Queen, as the cause may be, of Ukraine would be.
During these waiting days, the young empress and the experienced statesman had some time to talk, and talk they did. Minister Capet is a not ungifted orator, and his intricate knowledge of international politics, something he's handling for decades now, gives him a wellspring of knowledge and stories to entertain Empress Flowranis.

They meet at the Osteria Pantagruel Restaurant, in the centre of Kiev. As the course of the dinner went on Flowranis brought the conversation to something she adores, flying and aircraft, and that gets to the Rift war, were aircraft seem to rule superiour.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Eh...the rift war is having serious concequences on our naval forces, not only are aircraft superior scouts, but it seems that mid sized cruisers are rather torpedo bait than any worty addition to the battlefleet. They couldn't stop the new Swiss fleet from fleeing after their botched attacks on Djibouti."

"Oh, France sees the Great Swiss Escape as a second attack on Djibouti? Yes, my advisors , told me that about a week ago," she said. "Only it was called something else, like an undeclared war action, or even the kicking of a downed kid. The Italians and the Germans could have handled it on their own. Especialy with the Dutch and Ottomans backstabbing Oman and New Swiss at the same time. But I believe in your sincerity, your military seems to have other goals than the advancement of France."

Yes, my dear Flowranis,it seems Parliament had the same idea and has pushed to limit the power of the military. The first step is to diminish the fleet. The Djibouti debacle is a good starting point, and the start of that is about the sale of ships we're about to have."

Blinking her eyes, fluttering eyelashes unleashed butterflies in Capets belly.

"Apparently the Naval Ministry decided that, since so many of them were sunk, that the Demarce IIIs, IVs, and Dantons are for sale....knowing that you already have a Danton in your navy, that might be useful.
But this isn't talk for a gentle evening like this. Did I tell you how the first meeting ...."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The empress's guards see how the 2 have a nice evening, and when both go their way, the galant minister giving a gentle hand-kiss to the offered Imperial hand.


OOC: Random Word of the Day: Passionfruit. That is all.

(Note that the operations of the NRDN in TULIP were detected by the French and the Romanian intelligence services but that the actions were not detected by anyone else. In other words this story was created with permission from TexasCowboy and Maddox and is used with their permissions. Other parties are not privy to the details of TULIP or the events that precede and follow from it except insofar as it concerns further Dutch actions in PMs I sent them. D.)    

Nicholas van Rijn reads his latest intelligence brief.
  As part of Operation Tulip in September, the NRDN worked out a plan to eavesdrop on some of the favorite watering holes and eateries for the diplomats and dignitaries that gathered in Kiev for the pending Ukrainian elections.
  van Rijn personally approved it, even though he knew that its chance of success was minimal.

QuoteMVB Agent 222 report  #342.

1. Osteria Pantagruel Restaurant target was identified and staked out as a popular rendezvous spot for meetings of dignitaries invited to observe the Ukraine election.
2. Efforts to install NRDN listening horns in the ceiling of the Osteria Pantagruel Restaurant were successful. (We underbid on the electrification contract.)
3. Stenographer pool was stationed in the building adjacent to record any passing conversation that was picked up by the listening horns.
4. The conversations our listeners recorded after sifting yielded the following results;
-garbled conversations about the Rift War among unidentified diplomats and dignitaries.
-special private meeting mentioned between Minister Capet on (date blanked out for security reasons).. and unknown personage  

Actions taken on basis (4)

1. Honey trapped chief waiter of Osteria Pantagruel Restaurant as wedge to insert our own "waiter" and "wine steward" (Agents # 245 and # 033).
2. The agents were able to serve information targets identified as Queen Flowranis of Romania and Minister Capet of France, but not able to record much of their conversation besides these points:
-Minister Capet suggested that the French government would downsize its naval armed forces by selling off its Class II pantserkruizers of the Demache classes namely to interested states that would buy said ships. Agent # 245 was unable to determine why this was openly said in his presence.
-The Romanian ruler, Flowanis, after Minister Capet called for wine later, specifically mentioned within earshot of agent # 033 that the French action in the Rift War was an undeclared war action.
3. The information gathered, this agent # 222 concludes, was deliberately pigeon dropped by the two information targets at the dinner to specifically reach the NRDN, and hence the Dutch MVB, as well as the Romanian government secret services. The clear intent by France and Romania to pass this information to us is unknown.

    Nicholas van Rijn knows exactly why the information is so passed.... "Anders! Get your sorry carcass in here!" Anders looking at the midnight clock striking at the Turinstad, roars back: "What the devil do you want? The Romanian ambassador is in my office asking about our damaged ships again, and I'm trying to make a sale!"  
    "How did they find out about our ships? Never mind." van Rijn tugs his chin. "I need you to do two things, stall the Romanians, since we need every hull we have, damaged or not."
    "Well, if you hadn't set in motion Fleet Problems IV, V and VI, we would not be in this mess, would we and I could sell that ship they want?" Anders said.
    "Shut your mouth, fool." van Rijn said: "The French are selling their own ships, their 6000k and 8000k kruizers, I think. We need to get some of those ships for the Irish, some for the Middle Kingdom, and some for our other allies so we can end those Fleet Problems and restore the great power balance."
    "Then you need Guntar Hertzog, but since he is in the Middle Kingdom where you so stupidly sent him, we'll send Helga Jonstel as omsbudwoman instead. SHE can represent us to Meister Lebrun, the French defense minister, and arrange a little negotiation here." Wellsen suggests.
    "That might work. At least we'll find out in detail what's up with the French desire to sell ships?" van Rijn says.
    "We need some input as to whether the money is worth the product." Wellsen says. "Of course with your pet admiral gone..."
    "Shut up, Wellsen." van Rijn states flatly.
 
 
====================================================
    Helga Jonstel was a "Bavarian" by birth, but a KoN diplomat by her documents. Monsieur Lebrun was not certain what and why she went to the considerable efforts to meet him, but out of curiosity...
    Monsieur Lebrun steeples his handsand stares at the woman who sits so calm across the little table from him. at the outdoor coffee shop, just 300 meters south of the Eiffel Tower. "Clever little lady, aren't you? No eavesdroppers, no way for anyone else to overhear our conversation, and... Helga Jonstel interrupts: "No accidents for us either, Monsieur. We are covered." She pets a large ferocious Manx that purrs in her lap as she says this and she smiles a thin smile. Monsieur Lebrun feels the cold emanate from her: "You went to a lot of trouble to meet me, Madam. Why did you want to meet me?"
   Jonstel states a plain fact: "There is a rumor that Glorious France wants to sell some cruisers. I would like to buy a few for some of my clients."
   Monsieur Grange sips his Turkish coffee. "Where would a lovely lady, such as yourself, get the money for such baubles, and who would be the clients to buy and need such lethal toys?"
   Jonstel eyes narrow. The hard negotiation was about to begin...  
==============================================================

Off Oman...

   BAROOM!  
   Admiral Schoepen watches the eight shell broadside arc into the Omani coast. Some pirates that continued to harass shipping were located at Khalul. The operative word was WERE. The bombardment put an end to them rather quickly, but as the three frigates hammered the harbor, Admiral Schorpen had another problem.    

Quote#2134 Inquiry from the RFMA:
To kommandamt TF 11
Need your evaluation of the Demarche class kruizers for possible Dutch and Allied service.
What weaknesses?
What modifications necessary?

   Admiral Schoepen dictates his answer to his flag secretary as the frigate jumps from the recoil of her 38s.

Quote#2134 Reply to the RFMA:  
From kommandamt TF 11
Assessemt:
 Dermarche III
 Armament and fire control is not up to Dutch specifications. This Kruizer would need to be re-barreled to 15 cm triples for Dutch service. Refits of Dutch fire control and radar as well as sonar would be required. However, as gift ships to the Middle Kingdom, these would be valuable additions to an allied fleet, as the MKN uses these existing caliber weapons. The only changes required would be the torpedoes and the AAA. Chief critique is that they are slow and deep drafted for Europe. Asian service area is recommended.
 Demarche IIIB  
 Recommend procurement for KM if possible: Armament and fire control is not up to Dutch specifications. This Kruizer would need to be re-barreled to 12.5 cm twins for Dutch service. Need for for Ditch HW torpedoes if possible. Refits of Dutch fire control and radar as well as sonar would be required. However, as gift ships to the Irish, Indochinese, Firanj, and the Middle Kingdom, these would be valuable additions to an allied fleet, as the allies use many these ships' existing French caliber weapons. The changes required for KM service would be the torpedoes, guns. and the AAA. Chief critique is deep draft for Europe, therefore Asian service recommended.  
 Demarche IV.
 Recommend procurement if possible. Class was mis-armed and misused. Modifications are to re-barrel to 20.5 cm twin or 15 cm triples and land the useless CSA torpedoes. Replace with HW tubes and replace sensor outfit with Dutch fire control and sensors. Possible gift ships to our allied navies.

   Admiral Schoepen orders that message sent in code to the relay ship for retransmission to Den Hague. He then returns to swatting Omani gnats with his sledgehammers. Sooner or later, that sultan in Muscat, would get the message...
  There was also that letter to Admiral Goen to write.

Imperial Marina Offices of Planning and Construction:

Well our French Allies appear to dislike their Demarce IV cruisers, and they have already been approached by several nations to purchase them.  It appears there is an opportunity to acquire replacement Armored Cruisers for three Heavy Cruisers we have lost in the New Zion war?  The French ships are relatively new can stand to be expanded and upgraded but were simply caught in a situation where they had to hold their ground to protect a slower battle line in a tacticaly bad situation.   The cruisers we are seeking to replace were sunk in the same battle.   If the French want to sell modern ships we need to try and buy them.

We will have to see about attending what appears to be an auction attended by a large number of nations.  This does not make the likelihood of a successful offer very likely but trying never hurt.  We will have to play some political cards but hopefully we can purchase some or all of the remaining Demarce IV cruisers.

How many of these ships are there, anyway?

There were 6 before the war and 1 for sure was lost so at least 4?  Perhaps as many as 5?

WAG

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4254.msg47614#msg47614

There are four.

D.

Quote from: damocles on August 09, 2010, 05:18:40 PM
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4254.msg47614#msg47614

There are four.

D.

I count 6 before losses, so Mike's WAG of 4-5 is pretty good.

Quote1st Scouting Squadron [1st SC] - Brest
Napoleon the Great
2 x Demarce IV
Temporary posted at Blantyre
2 x Demarce IV
2nd Scouting Squadron [2nd SC] - Djibouti
Chevallier Rouge, Glore II
2 x Demarce IV

OOC-that is a great WAG.

Also OOC.

Absolutely brilliant guess, but I want to make clear, that the Dutch ATM do not exactly know for what they negotiate, unlike the other bidders. They think the French maybe are selling Demarce cruisers. They just don't know which class or how many. If it is the block of four Demarce IVs, they will find that out with their Jonstel/Lebrun contact as they negotiate.  

IC, the van Rijn government is following an intelligence  lead. Hence the Schoepen radiograms.      

YES, YES, you can send the invitations.
Minister Capet. Your ministry is the biggest sieve of secrets in my government. This is the last time I did share any sensitive information with you that doesn't concern the function of your departement.

---

Invations to
Firenj
Ireland
Romania 
Gran Colombia
The Netherlands
Italia
Confederated States of America
United Norman Kingdom

---

Quote"A modern cruiser fleet"

Hereby are the adressed countries invited to join a conference on the disposition of
4 Demarce III and 4 Demarce IV cruisers.
Conference starts 11 november 1919, Versailles Palace."

OOC:  Ouch-  Budget overruns spirialing out of control.....

Charles

Richmond, Virginia


"Is five-hundred thirty feet long enough? Can we use something like that?"

"I think so... I'll have to talk to the men at La Paz, but we could probably make that work."

"In that case, I'll tell the French that we'll be participating in the conference. If we can get one of these pretty cheaply, it'll give the project a large boost."

(This is not general knowledge except to the "agents" that Jontel followed and to the French, as soon as the Dutch letter is delivered to the French after the Dutch receive their own invitation to the Versailles auction.)

Outside a Paris "safe" house.

   Agent # 981 waits impatiently for the "catwoman" to show up. "She's late."
   Agent # 400 remarks "She has our instructions? A civilian?"
   "Yes a civilian." Helga Jonstel snaps, as she walks up on them. "Den Hague sent us the news of a French invitation yesterday, which was faster than I expected. Incidentally, you two idiots were supposed to cover me from the Eiffel Tower at that meeting with Lebrun three days ago. Where were you?"
   Agent # 981 explains: "Paris traffic."
   Jonstel snaps "You are fired as head of mission, 981. 400, you will hand deliver to Minister Lebrun's secretary a letter stating that I will represent our purchase commission at the Versailles conference concerning the Demarce IVs."
   Agent 400: "But I will expose my cover!"
   Jonstel: "An ex-agent does not need cover. Deliver the letter as my hired 'aide'.  You are fired from the NRDN too. By the way, imbeciles, how do you think I found you when you did not tell me WHERE to meet you?" She points at two men in trench coats. "They followed you. I followed them."  
   Agent # 981: "Who are they?"
   Jonstel: "Does it matter?"

The Dutch buying French ships?!

Unpossible!

Seriously though: a Dutch bid seems a longshot.

IDK, $$ is $$ and France likes $$. Besides, the Demarce's are inferior ships, or France wouldn't be selling them. And what could "Glorious France" have to fear from the Dutch if they're using "inferior ships"? ;)

OOC, nonetheless , the Dutch and Gran Colombians  are invited.   Are the Demarce IV's really flawed, or is it a political maneuvre?

IC
Paris, after Premier galpoux made the sale public for Parliament, (an occurance that gave him immense support, strangely enough)
No Minister Lebrun, you don't have a last word in this sale. Those 8 cruisers will be sold, or scrapped. And yes, you can replace them , but with 10  5000 ton cruisers. If we can get the budget trough parliament . What will depend on the willingness of the buyers.

But premier, such a diminishing of our painfully build up modern cruiser force will reduce the navy to a glamor force. A few small, fast units, and a gaggle of wallowing battleships that can't even catch a rowboat.

I know, it was me that supported you, Geon and Grange. And my predecessor Paixhans. And no, Parliament has asked me to make sure that France would be served well by this gouvernment; The diversion of taxpayers money from civilian projects to military buildup will end when I leave office, end june 1920. So, make sure your plans are well tought out, as I suspect my socialist successor won't be that spendtrift for the military.

"Has the offer been sent to the French?"

"Yes, Sir... perhaps a bit low-ball, but it is a starting point."

I bid you all a welcome gentlemen, and I thank you for the quick responce of your countries.

As in the invitations, the purpose for me is to sell and for you to buy 4 of the Demarce IV cruisers and 3 Demarce III cruisers France has in surplus.

Of course, during these negotiations, France will offer you all the full extend of the French hospitabily.


(gesturing one of the servants, a beautifull lady brings him a steaming cup of tea, the mint aroma is heavy and sweet)

Irvine Theodore Bulloch, cousin to the former President and one of the Confederate Navy's most successful construction agents, is attending the meeting for the Confederate States of America.

"The Confederate States of America are interested in purchasing one or two of Glorious France's Demarce IV cruisers. We will offer to Glorious France 30% of the vessel's average worth in scrap, or 2,650 tons of material, per ship. Should Glorious France prefer hard currency, we would provide $350,000* Confederate dollars per ship."




*$3.50 in N-verse 'dollars'. I'm pegging the N-verse 'dollar' as worth a round $100,000 Confederate dollars.

Minister Lebrun lifts a finger, and one of the aids start writing down something that looks agreed upon.

Monsieur Bulloch, we're talking about modern, fully equipped ships. Non older than 6 years.
I should say, if the ship are eated according scrapvalue, France can scrap ships itself, and as a small extra, has a lot of experience turning ships that don't fit the fleet into impregnable fortresses.

I hope it was just an opening bid, and not an insult.

(OOC, total tonnage is about 55 Ktons.  0.55*15= 8.25bp+$8.25+ normal profit range of [8.25+25%]= $26,8), mening, by scrapping them myself and recasting the steel, I can build profitable ships, expecialy if I turn them into submarines, MAS boats or DD's.
Oops, seems I can do the math too.

OoC: Surely France can't be expecting the bidding to open with a FAIR PRICE! ;)
The Confederacy had no illusions about such a deal being accepted- it just had to start somewhere, and so they started very, very low to see if they could get away with it. :)

"The Confederacy will respectfully raise it's offer to 50% of the ships' total tonnage in new material, OR, preferably, $500,000 per vessel."

Quote from: Carthaginian on August 15, 2010, 08:31:46 PM
OoC: Surely France can't be expecting the bidding to open with a FAIR PRICE! ;)
The Confederacy had no illusions about such a deal being accepted- it just had to start somewhere, and so they started very, very low to see if they could get away with it. :)

To achieve that, other paths had to be walked I'm afraid.
I'm not going to sell my best anti raiders for peanuts.
I see it as part of the long standing plan to diminish France to a normal, strong player country, not the 800 pound gorillia it is called.
But that doesn't mean I have to get very stupid.

In any case, if allowed, I'll remove the OOC remark-postinfs in 24 hours. They don't add that much to the topic.
Also, as Lebrun says, he ain't a diplomat...

The Romanian delegate, Master Powers, inquires into the state of the Danton class pre-dreadnoughts, and if they are for sale or not.

OOC: Another nefarious member for my spy community...Jack Bauer, Chuck Norris, Mr. T, and now....Austin Powers. :D

Monsieur Powers.  We have 4 of the Danton Class battleships layed up at Tricomalee.  The fifth, unfortunatly , is at the harbor floor after running into a string of mines, layed down by the New Swiss using a yet unknown methode.
The report gives us very usefull info, and we're contemplating of doing more tests with underwater protection systems, based upon the surprisingly good performing underwater protection of the Dantons.

These 4 Dantons, are of course for sale.

Liborio Valentinius the Imperial Magistrate to France will look around the room at the gathered representatives before speaking.

Minister Lebrun the Empire of Italia is interested in acquiring some if not all of the Demarce IV and Demarce III class ships.   As you say they are all modern ships under 6 years of age.  The Empire is willing to offer 8 million Denari [$8] and either an additional 3 million Denari [$3]  in cash or 1.5K tons of construction for each of the Demarce IV.  For the Demarce III Ships the Empire is willing to offer 5 Million Denari [$5] and either 1K tons of construction or 2 million additional Denari.

The Empire is aware of the French desire to build a new class of smaller more suitable escort cruisers.  To this end the Empire would welcome the chance to help France design and build such a ship using slips and dry docks within the empire to speed the replacement of such ships.

In addition the Empire does not necessarily need all the ships and would be willing to allow the CSA to purchase one of the ships at our price if France agree's.

Master Powers: "Is there any possibility of damaged ships from the war going on sale? We have reliable information that the DeCreme, a Demarce IV, and a Demarce III were damaged during the war, and we wonder if a discount could be gotten on those ships."

Minister Lebruns eyes take a gleam that conveys encyclopedias.

Monsieur Valentinius, I dare to say, you're very aware of the Ministry of Defences plans. But I must say, compared to the Confederate offer, we're talking now.

If others, unfortunatly seemingly disadvantaged by contacts inside the French government, are willing to consider this.

France is selling 55000 tons of modern cruisers, a somma of 7 hulls, including firecontrol, ERADe and ASW technology.  Replacing those ships with at least 7 5000 ton 30 kts cruisers with a suitable anti DD armament and 24" torpedo technology is what France is planning.

Monsieur Bulloch, I hope you're aware that the entire series of Demarce cruisers are the children of the CSA Rattlesnake class... ;)

Monsieur Powers, France is already repairing those ships. The Demarce III is now in Alexandria  to be repaired by the Caliph... , euhr, the Egyptians.

Superbe wasn't even damaged, and was entering drydock for her 10 year rebuild before any unplesantness with the misguided New Swiss happened. The superficial damage to Decreme is already being painted away.

So, I'm sorry, the only ship in my power to sell "on damage discount" is beached Danton in Tricomalee.

"Minister Lebruns, the Confederate States of America are quite interested in this possible turn in the discussions. As you are aware, our current El Paso class of 3rd Class Cruisers are similar to your design requirements- albeit mounting 21" torpedoes. The Confederacy also has other studies which exist which might suit Glorious France's needs. Should you so desire, those plans could be disclosed to France- in private, of course- when the meeting resumes tomorrow?"

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=5078.msg61456#msg61456 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=5078.msg61456#msg61456)

It seems monsieur Bulloch, we have a dinner discussion later today.

After leaving the meeting, Captain Teague McDermott  headed  back to the embassy. Aidan Gallagher was waiting for him. "So how did it go?" Aidan asked handing Teague a glass of whiskey. "Well, the first bid blew anything we could hope to match, unless the Treasury desires to let me empty the vaults. It wasn't even a reasonable one." Teague said before inverting the glass. "Well, not much else we could hope for, we are the poorest of the bunch." Aidan followed Teague's lead and reached for the remainder of the bottle. "Still, I want you to go back, who knows what we might learn." "And who knows, maybe this will help us make a few new friends." Teague accepted the refill.

OOC: Sorry for the late post, I had a bit of a packed weekend.

The initial offer was over 1/5 of my entire half year budget per ship. Current is about 1/3 of the same per hull. I don't quite have the money. I knew from the beginning that there was very little chance of it working out. Figured I would try. If all else fails, good experience.

If NS can get word of this meeting, it will talk to the Columbians (and if they agree) for the following bid of +$2 of the CSA/Italian bid plus $1 for the Columbians for acting as intermediaries (plus maybe a tech or so).

Quote

Minister Lebrun the Empire of Italia is interested in acquiring some if not all of the Demarce IV and Demarce III class ships.   As you say they are all modern ships under 6 years of age.  The Empire is willing to offer 8 million Denari [$8] and either an additional 3 million Denari [$3]  in cash or 1.5K tons of construction for each of the Demarce IV.  For the Demarce III Ships the Empire is willing to offer 5 Million Denari [$5] and either 1K tons of construction or 2 million additional Denari.

The Empire is aware of the French desire to build a new class of smaller more suitable escort cruisers.  To this end the Empire would welcome the chance to help France design and build such a ship using slips and dry docks within the empire to speed the replacement of such ships.

In addition the Empire does not necessarily need all the ships and would be willing to allow the CSA to purchase one of the ships at our price if France agree's

Ombudswoman Helga Jonstel passes a note to the Irish representative, and notes with quiet detachment: "We will match the Italian offer and offer a tech exchange in addition. France can have access to some of our related research concerning the mines that we recently encountered for example.

D.   

Minister Lebrun gestures an aide, and that one brings a binder. A thinner folder is removed, given to the aide, who brings it to the Dutch representative.
Madame Jonstel, my aide is delivering you the full data on the mines recovered of the small, annoying minefield at the route to Nice.*
We should thank the unknown deliverers, as those mines had some interesting features the French engineers are incorperating already in their superiour designs.

Your bid on the ships is noted of course.

In a related note, my aides will bring you all the requirements for the successors (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=5205.0) of these ships.

* France does have simular or better minetech (//http://1908:%20Advanced%20(+1):%20advanced%20paravanes,%20active%20charges.%20Reliable%20horn%20mines,%20early%20antenna%20mines.), just elects not to use it. French naval minefields are pure defensive messures, and are command detonated.

Master Powers: "What is this about the Superbe? I didn't mention the Superbe in any discussion, so I wonder how it got pulled into this?"

OOC: Waiting for the chance to use that quote from Golden Member.... :D

Monsieur Powers, I included Superbe in the list of ships on your question about buying damaged ships. As Superbe is sometimes seen as the first of the "DeCreme" class Glorious battleships. Decreme was scratched by a New Swiss torpedo volley.

Superbe already was in drydock for the 10 year refit. Still some newspapers brought the fact that Superbe was in drydock as the evidence that France doesn't need such ships.  Any more questions about damaged ships?

Firanji offer is $7 and a newbuilt protected cruiser (5.5BP/$6.825 foreign built) for all the three Demarce IIIs, and a half a cruiser + $5 for each Demarce IV.

For cruiser see design thread.

Evening in Versailles palace.

After a restfull dinner , Minister lebrun is leafing trough some 5Kton cruiser proposals,muttering to himself.

Hmm, several designs leave room for a floatplane. With the knowledge from the rift war it seems an interesting option. But not for an escort cruiser. Better to use some more stable ,larger ship to carry a few more then. I think we'll have to ask our southeastern neighbors about it. They have experience with the ship/aircraft combination.

That Dutch design looks good on paper, unfortunatly, the armor has about the same thickness. Maybe if the armor is upgraded and the amenities are diminished. 150 depth charges is a lot, as well a total of 175 tons of electromechanical gear. But the crew will love the ship during peacetime, I like the combination of messhall/movietheater, but the granite slab insulated winecellar is more for a battleship. With the new cooling plants we can do better, for less weight. Oh well, we're getting somewere. The idea to fit the belt on the outside, on that angle, looks like the good old tumblehome design of the Republiques, but without sacrificing the internal space like the real tumblehome did. Would an armored hull help against torpedo damage? I should ask some ship architects about that idea.

Versailles Palace, in the middle of the night

Ah monsieur Grange, your departement did what was ment to be done?

Yes, my assistents have compiled a report on the Cruiser sale.

1) Admiral Geon is furious, and isn't willing to let one of the ships go. But he's being overruled by parliament in this case. If he keeps his displeasure at this level, it could be that he has to resign. I'm urging him not to do that.

2) I'm not happy with the situation. I tried my best, but we didn't find the original leak of the sale report, yet.

3) My analists agree that the Dutch shouldn't buy all the ships. I suggest selling most to the italians, as good allies they are. But with the Chinese civil war, the Dutch are probably sending most, if not all of these ships to that grinder.  So,  2-2 Italia ,  1-2 Dutch and the last D IV for Firenj  should give us most diplomatical return of investment.

4) the 4 Dantons. We know several countries could use such hulls, if modernised. We could suggest to work together with Romania and Ireland to work on such a program. The 340mm twin turrets tough, could be kept for installing at Tricomalee's new defenses.
Danton itself. the flooding did some damage to the machines and such, so, we suggest raising it and scrap it at Tricomalee, using the resources for the new fortress.

I'll mull over these plans Monsieur Grange. I thank you for your discretion, and please, make sure Admiral Geon doesn't do stupid things.

Mr. Bulloch inquires as to which ships are still available for purchase, and at what price.

Helga Jonstel contacts Minister Lebrun to inquire whether two Demarce IIIs and two Demarce IVs are possible.

D.   

Currently, monsieur Bulloch we have 3 realistic offers for the ships we offered. Italia , The Netherlands and Firenj have our preference to the sale.

Our accounting department has suggested the following dispositon for the ships. If the countries are willing.

Italia has acces to 2 Demarce IV's and 1 Demarce III

The Netherlands have acces to 1 Demarce IV and 3 Demarce III

Firenj therefor can buy 1 Demarce IV.

Pricetag is the Italian monetary proposal. New construction of foreign yards is negotiable on these proposals, but will be done in private sessions.

Of course, if our other potential buyers  are willing to offer better terms?

---

On the ship building proposals.
The French ship architects have looked upon the offered plans, and the Dutch hull is the most efficient to our purposes, and the Italian 127mm L51 guns are already being tested as the next gun for large destroyers and small cruisers.
These designs and materials, combined with French electromechanical enginering gives France  a 5000 ton cruiser design that is very viable and even desirable.

Firenj would prefer to buy a pair of (identical) ships (either IIIs or IVs), and withdraw from the bid if it is a single one.

Monsieur, lady?  Is Italia or The Netherlands willing to let go of 1 Demarce IV?
Or Is the Netherlands willing to exchange 2 of the Demarce III's in exchange for the Demarce IV?

Master Powers: "What is the maximum bid at the moment, so we may consider if we wish to defeat it?"

Should the Firenj withdraw on their DIV, the Confederate States of America would be willing to meet the Italian offer for the vessel.

The Confederacy is not interested in the DIII cruisers, however, and if a DIV is not available, they thank Glorious France for the invitation, but choose not to bid on these vessels.

"Merci, Monseiur, but Gran Colombia will not be bidding upon any vessels at this time."

Quote from: maddox on August 20, 2010, 02:01:46 PM
Monsieur, lady?  Is Italia or The Netherlands willing to let go of 1 Demarce IV?
Or Is the Netherlands willing to exchange 2 of the Demarce III's in exchange for the Demarce IV?

Jonstel to Lebrun

The KoN might be interested on the Demarce IIIs as a block if the Kingdom of Italy wishes to share the DIVs with Firanj.

To wit: that the KoN might be willing to build several TK 5000s to the exact French specifications at COST on a one per one replacement basis or for the matched  Italian offer + tech.      
D.

The Empire is willing to allow the Demarce III go and will purchase the other Demarce IV if possible but also prefers multipule ships of a given class.   

Then the Logical conclusion of these talks is that The Netherlands buy the 4 Demarce III  (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1408.msg31056#msg31056) cruisers, Italia 2 Demarce IV cruisers and Firenj the 2 other Demarce IV cruisers.

If anybody here has any objections, now is the time to speak.

And after this, it seems France has found the time and wherewithal to have a Soirée.


(in other words, Party time)

You really don't want to have a party with Austin Powers around....

France just got named Swiss Enemy #1...

Hey if you keep picking France #1 your going to hurt Italy's feelings :)

Charles

Quote from: Desertfox on August 22, 2010, 01:00:47 PM
France just got named Swiss Enemy #1...

Thank you for the honnor. But, wasn't France Swiss Enemy #1 before General Napoleon drove the Swiss out of their European mountains?

Quote from: Desertfox on August 22, 2010, 01:00:47 PM
France just got named Swiss Enemy #1...

Heh, like those two Demarce IV's were going to be used against New Switzerland anyways....*deploys tactical nukes Romania*