If NAaB is in the right ballpark the armor should be proof against a 260lbs 8" shell from 7,200yds (belt) out to 18,000yrds (deck) and against it's own guns from 11,000yds (belt) out to 18,000yds (deck). Also, Swampy was kind enough to do a story about how the tripple 24cm/L50 was the same barbette as the twin 28cm/L45, so I could swap them out rather easy if I so desired.
Kruezer A, Deutsche Reich Große Kruezer laid down 1920
Displacement:
17,000 t light; 17,742 t standard; 19,325 t normal; 20,592 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721.77 ft / 715.22 ft x 79.49 ft x 23.13 ft (normal load)
220.00 m / 218.00 m x 24.23 m x 7.05 m
Armament:
12 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns (4x3 guns), 418.88lbs / 190.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,241 lbs / 2,377 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 121
8 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 464.90 ft / 141.70 m 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 114,000 shp / 85,044 Kw = 31.56 kts
Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,850 tons
Complement:
819 - 1,065
Cost:
£4.035 million / $16.139 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 659 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 3,941 tons, 20.4 %
- Belts: 1,269 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 903 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,677 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 92 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3,986 tons, 20.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,063 tons, 41.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,325 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,578 lbs / 10,695 Kg = 55.9 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.50 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.92 ft / -1.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.1 %
Waterplane Area: 38,383 Square feet or 3,566 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 693 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.18
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
250t 1912 FC
25t LR W/T
24t 8 3t 50cm Torpedoes
51t Reserve
More of the super cruisers, if you can fit 4x2 11" I would got for that myself. Otherwise a nice cruiser killer.
Hmmmm it appears to be right in the the 17K ton range where the Nassau treaty group looked over a 12 x 9.2" gunned cruiser killer. A nice ship I like them but Italy probably cant afford more then 1 or 2 of them.
Charles
Quote from: miketr on July 21, 2010, 07:18:57 AM
More of the super cruisers, if you can fit 4x2 11" I would got for that myself. Otherwise a nice cruiser killer.
Kruezer A11, Deutsche Reich Große Kruezer laid down 1920
Displacement:
17,000 t light; 17,742 t standard; 19,325 t normal; 20,592 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721.77 ft / 715.22 ft x 79.49 ft x 23.13 ft (normal load)
220.00 m / 218.00 m x 24.23 m x 7.05 m
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,506 lbs / 2,497 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 115
8 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 464.90 ft / 141.70 m 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 114,000 shp / 85,044 Kw = 31.56 kts
Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,850 tons
Complement:
819 - 1,065
Cost:
£4.108 million / $16.433 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 697 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 3,887 tons, 20.1 %
- Belts: 1,269 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 850 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,677 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 92 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3,986 tons, 20.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,081 tons, 41.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,325 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,862 lbs / 10,370 Kg = 34.1 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.50 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.92 ft / -1.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Stern: 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Average freeboard: 21.29 ft / 6.49 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.8 %
Waterplane Area: 38,383 Square feet or 3,566 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 700 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.15
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
250t 1912 FC
25t LR W/T
24t 8 3t 50cm Torpedoes
51t Reserve
Does it worth building a cruiser killer with specifications to face the old Swiss cruisers with 8" guns?
Quote from: P3D on July 21, 2010, 09:42:00 AM
Does it worth building a cruiser killer with specifications to face the old Swiss cruisers with 8" guns?
Really wasn't thinking about them, but still a good point. I looked over the "Cruisers of Navalism" (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4903.0) and for ships in this size bracket (16-18,000t) 11" is the average main battery size. Belt is proof against 11" from ~12,000yds out and deck is proof from ~19,000yds in.
Kruezer A11b, Deutsche Reich Große Kruezer laid down 1920
Displacement:
18,000 t light; 18,763 t standard; 20,400 t normal; 21,710 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721.79 ft / 716.04 ft x 79.56 ft x 23.46 ft (normal load)
220.00 m / 218.25 m x 24.25 m x 7.15 m
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,718 lbs / 2,593 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
8 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.07" / 205 mm 464.90 ft / 141.70 m 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.07" / 205 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 8.07" / 205 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp / 89,520 Kw = 31.64 kts
Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,947 tons
Complement:
853 - 1,109
Cost:
£4.313 million / $17.251 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 723 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 4,554 tons, 22.3 %
- Belts: 1,736 tons, 8.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,122 tons, 5.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,569 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 127 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,196 tons, 20.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,177 tons, 40.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,400 tons, 11.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,173 lbs / 10,511 Kg = 34.6 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.534
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.65 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.20 ft / -2.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.59 ft / 7.80 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.10 ft / 6.13 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.6 %
Waterplane Area: 39,178 Square feet or 3,640 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 704 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.03
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
250t 1912 FC
25t LR W/T
24t 8 3t 50cm Torpedoes
51t Reserve
I'd have more than four secondaries on a side, and increase draught a bit. Also, ~2.4m deep decks suggest 1.2m armor belt above water, and 2.15m below - the latter is excessive.
And on a 18000t ship, I'd put a TDS.
Building 18k ton ships to kill 6k ton ones is not very cost effective.
Quote from: Desertfox on July 21, 2010, 11:48:28 AM
Building 18k ton ships to kill 6k ton ones is not very cost effective.
As the ship seems to be able to take on three without risking itself much, I'd say it is cost-effective.
QuoteAnd on a 18000t ship, I'd put a TDS.
Despite its size, the beam's so-so for an effective TDS.
It's interesting as it's similar- but overall better - to my Donar. My engine tech isn't there, and I use coal, plus I made some purposely different decisions for a slightly different role.
For my part, I found a TDS unworkable unless I expanded the ship to over 20k light, and you'd probably want another meter or two of beam to fit minimal internal bulges and still have room for twin 11". Figure 17-18m minimal beam for twin 11", and 4m for each internal bulge, 25-26m would about minimum.
Quote from: P3D on July 21, 2010, 11:39:11 AM
I'd have more than four secondaries on a side, and increase draught a bit. Also, ~2.4m deep decks suggest 1.2m armor belt above water, and 2.15m below - the latter is excessive.
And on a 18000t ship, I'd put a TDS.
Quote from: Walter on July 21, 2010, 12:49:04 PM
QuoteAnd on a 18000t ship, I'd put a TDS.
Despite its size, the beam's so-so for an effective TDS.
Kruezer A11c, Deutsche Reich Große Kruezer laid down 1920
Displacement:
18,000 t light; 18,762 t standard; 20,390 t normal; 21,692 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721.79 ft / 716.04 ft x 80.38 ft x 25.26 ft (normal load)
220.00 m / 218.25 m x 24.50 m x 7.70 m
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 5,932 lbs / 2,691 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 105
8 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 465.88 ft / 142.00 m 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 2.36" / 60 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
4th: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 116,000 shp / 86,536 Kw = 31.53 kts
Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,930 tons
Complement:
853 - 1,109
Cost:
£4.320 million / $17.279 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 750 tons, 3.7 %
Armour: 4,579 tons, 22.5 %
- Belts: 1,644 tons, 8.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,147 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,662 tons, 8.2 %
- Conning Tower: 127 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,056 tons, 19.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,261 tons, 40.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,390 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 355 tons, 1.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,067 lbs / 10,463 Kg = 34.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.491
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.65 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.20 ft / -2.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.59 ft / 7.80 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.10 ft / 6.13 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.1 %
Waterplane Area: 38,031 Square feet or 3,533 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 718 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
250t 1912 FC
25t LR W/T
24t 8 3t 50cm Torpedoes
56t Reserve
Quote
Block coefficient: 0.491
Based on the BC's that Guinness has posted, I don't think that BC is enough. The only large warship with less was the CV Ranger, but even 6" cruisers are over .5
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=727.msg44539#msg44539 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=727.msg44539#msg44539)
Also, why trim the ship up to 57? It doesn't seem to have any benefit.
Block coefficient is a byproduct of 1) Not wanting to go over 18,000t 2) Following P3Ds advice to deepen the draft.
Trim to 57 increases the steadiness. While not 70, 62 is better than 58.
125t heavier, 32kts
Kruezer A11d, Deutsche Reich Große Kruezer laid down 1920
Displacement:
18,125 t light; 18,889 t standard; 20,525 t normal; 21,833 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721.79 ft / 716.04 ft x 79.56 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
220.00 m / 218.25 m x 24.25 m x 7.62 m
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 5,932 lbs / 2,691 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 105
8 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 465.22 ft / 141.80 m 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 2.36" / 60 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
4th: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 124,000 shp / 92,504 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,944 tons
Complement:
856 - 1,114
Cost:
£4.423 million / $17.690 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 750 tons, 3.7 %
Armour: 4,442 tons, 21.6 %
- Belts: 1,641 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,147 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,527 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 127 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,336 tons, 21.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,243 tons, 40.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,400 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 355 tons, 1.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,882 lbs / 10,379 Kg = 34.2 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.504
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.65 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.20 ft / -2.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.59 ft / 7.80 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.10 ft / 6.13 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.7 %
Waterplane Area: 38,109 Square feet or 3,540 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.10
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
250t 1912 FC
25t LR W/T
24t 8 3t 50cm Torpedoes
56t Reserve
It's an interesting contrast with my new Ironside.
You have three Moltkes already - how many ships in this size range do you reckon you need?
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on July 21, 2010, 08:06:34 PM
It's an interesting contrast with my new Ironside.
You have three Moltkes already - how many ships in this size range do you reckon you need?
Well, Moltke's are 3kts slower, and have 2 less 11" guns. These are more like Improved Moltke's. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau are basically relagated to 2nd line Battleships now as they're too slow (24kts) to be BCs and to weak armed to be 1st line BBs (6x12), but still pretty well protected (12" belt, 2" deck).
Would it be a one-off design, or you plan to build more?
I'm not planning anymore one-off designs. That doesn't mean changing world situations wouldn't make that happen, but as of now I'm looking for at least a class of 2, 4 preferably. Unfortunately I need to expand my shipbuilding infrastructure, as I don't have enough Type 3 slip or drydocks right now.
Possible Large Light Cruiser
QuoteKruezer 15/5a, Duetsche Reich Klein Kruezer laid down 1920
Displacement:
8,650 t light; 8,970 t standard; 10,010 t normal; 10,842 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.76 ft / 551.18 ft x 55.12 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
170.00 m / 168.00 m x 16.80 m x 7.00 m
Armament:
10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 1,042 lbs / 473 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 204
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 459.32 ft / 140.00 m 10.01 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 128 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100,000 shp / 74,600 Kw = 33.08 kts
Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,872 tons
Complement:
499 - 650
Cost:
£2.140 million / $8.560 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 135 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 1,299 tons, 13.0 %
- Belts: 581 tons, 5.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 96 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 591 tons, 5.9 %
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 3,497 tons, 34.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,469 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,360 tons, 13.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,157 lbs / 3,246 Kg = 69.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.502
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.90 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 20.54 ft / 6.26 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 126.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.4 %
Waterplane Area: 20,281 Square feet or 1,884 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 461 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.90
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
100t 1912 FC
25t LR W/T
24t 8 3t Torpedoes
50t Mines
51t Reserve
IMO, 1920 techno is not enough for 33kts
" Main Belt covers 128 % of normal length"
&
" Machinery: 3,497 tons, 34.9 %"
1920 engines cost too much for high speed.
Jef ;)
Using SS at least, we won't be seeing a marked improvement in machinery output for quite some time after 1920.
This is the sort of ship that may illustrate the need for a WW style reduced strength cruiser rule though.
Quote from: Guinness on July 23, 2010, 05:55:59 PM
This is the sort of ship that may illustrate the need for a WW style reduced strength cruiser rule though.
To build really competitive cruisers and destroyers, we will need some modifications to the rules starting about now.
Quote from: Jefgte on July 23, 2010, 04:13:01 PM
IMO, 1920 techno is not enough for 33kts
" Main Belt covers 128 % of normal length"
&
" Machinery: 3,497 tons, 34.9 %"
1920 engines cost too much for high speed.
Jef ;)
Quote from: Guinness on July 23, 2010, 05:55:59 PM
Using SS at least, we won't be seeing a marked improvement in machinery output for quite some time after 1920.
This is the sort of ship that may illustrate the need for a WW style reduced strength cruiser rule though.
Quote from: Carthaginian on July 23, 2010, 06:53:38 PM
Quote from: Guinness on July 23, 2010, 05:55:59 PM
This is the sort of ship that may illustrate the need for a WW style reduced strength cruiser rule though.
To build really competitive cruisers and destroyers, we will need some modifications to the rules starting about now.
Thank all 3 of you for pointing out the flaw in SpringSharp, again. Now, aside from the fact that the engines weight more than the hull, whatcha think of the actual cruiser?
I think 8500 tons and 10x150mm might be too much for a light fleet cruiser. What's the mission an what ships might we expect it to operate with?
What is the role of this ship? I see multi-role as a possibility with it's varied armament.
Anti DD escorts for the battleline. Being 10kts faster than the Battleships will allow them to range ahead and still be able to quickly recall if needed. They pack enough punch to let anything short of a real BC know they're there, and the 8 60cm torpedoes would great anything to big. At 33kts they can run from pretty much anything.
Let's say you take ~33 knots to be the major design parameter, and can accept slightly less armor (particularly the deck, where 1 inch ought to be enough). How small can you make it and how many guns would a smaller ship have?
In this role, you still need some numbers, I think, so savings might mean one or two extra ships (depending on how many you build). I suspect your expected role is similar to what the OTL RN had in mind with their post WW1 6" cruisers like Arethusa... 33 knots, 6 guns, on ~5000 tons standard.
I could settle for 32kts, but it has to have at least 8 guns. My last CLs are 5,475t light w/ 10 singles, but only 7 at most can bare on any one angle.
The biggest problem with comparisons to OTL is we're now in the WNT/LNT dead zone. After the Emeralds in 1918 the RN didn't lay down a new CL until 1931's Leanders (7,000t std, 4x2x6", 32.5kts).
Everyone is going to have to endure DK Brown tidbits from me for the next few days...
RN wargames, it seems, revealed the greatest danger from DDs to be in the forward quarter, presumable because torpedos fired from ahead of the target's beam would have the greatest closing speed, etc. So some emphasis on end-on fire is warranted it seems, especially in ships or batteries meant to deal with the DD threat. Just thought I'd throw that out there as a possible argument for wing mounts. It also brings me to:
Why 8 guns? Enough barrels in broadside was certainly important for capital ships to be able to hit their target at long range, but the engagement distances of 150mm armed cruisers vs. DDs will be appreciably shorter, making splash spotting and salvo fire less important. What is important is bring maximum RoF to bear on the target(s), which given the idea that the most danger is forward of the enemy's target, would mean forward fire. So in that respect, a 6 gun ship is as good as an 8 gun ship for this mission (at least, that's the argument the RN made I suspect, I haven't read that far).
I think the DKB's recent battle experience might support this conclusion as well. In the Banda Sea for instance, your light cruisers had few opportunities to fire on the broadside.
Later the RN and USN adopted 12 or 15 6" guns on their "light" cruisers, but that was mostly a product of building up to the treaty maximums, I think, not a product of real mission requirements. By that point, given the proliferation of treaty cruisers, cruisers seemed to be meant to fight other cruisers in fleet engagements, not necessarily just for battleline screening.
Kruezer 15/6a, Duetsche Reich Klein Kruezer laid down 1920
Displacement:
7,775 t light; 8,041 t standard; 9,025 t normal; 9,813 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.73 ft / 551.18 ft x 55.12 ft x 17.88 ft (normal load)
170.00 m / 168.00 m x 16.80 m x 5.45 m
Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
6 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 684 lbs / 310 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 215
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 8.92 ft / 2.72 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 131 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.54" / 90 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 91,000 shp / 67,886 Kw = 32.52 kts
Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,772 tons
Complement:
462 - 601
Cost:
£1.870 million / $7.481 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 88 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 1,217 tons, 13.5 %
- Belts: 662 tons, 7.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 41 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 477 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,182 tons, 35.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,089 tons, 34.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,250 tons, 13.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,393 lbs / 3,354 Kg = 71.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.581
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.10 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Mid (42 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.67 ft / 6.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.2 %
Waterplane Area: 21,838 Square feet or 2,029 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 425 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
100t 1912 FC
25t LR W/T
24t 8 3t 60cm Torpedoes
30t Mines
21t Reserve
Speed costs (duh). What's your battleline's speed? 23 knots?
Just fiddling, I can get something near your requirements for ~ 6750 tons (see below). Honestly I think 32 knots and an 8 knot advantage on your battleline speed ought to be enough, and I think the endurance on your design is probably a bit excessive for a ship this size, but I don't know that much better could be done with our rules and techs.
Note that the armor scheme here somewhat immitates that of interwar British cruisers: main belt is relatively short, but covers magazine and machinery spaces. The upper belt simulates the 1" protection over the machinery spaces that went right up to the weather deck in some ships. I added the end belts just cuz. They cost ~ 170 tons displacement.
Quote
6x150mm cruiser, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
6,743 t light; 6,983 t standard; 7,614 t normal; 8,118 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
515.10 ft / 508.53 ft x 55.12 ft x 18.46 ft (normal load)
157.00 m / 155.00 m x 16.80 m x 5.63 m
Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 38.36lbs / 17.40kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 753 lbs / 341 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 380.58 ft / 116.00 m 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 127.95 ft / 39.00 m 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Upper: 0.98" / 25 mm 351.05 ft / 107.00 m 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 68,228 shp / 50,898 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,135 tons
Complement:
406 - 529
Cost:
£1.536 million / $6.143 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 95 tons, 1.2 %
Armour: 1,371 tons, 18.0 %
- Belts: 977 tons, 12.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 26 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 345 tons, 4.5 %
- Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,386 tons, 31.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,712 tons, 35.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 871 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 2.4 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,281 lbs / 3,302 Kg = 70.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.05 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (42 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (13 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Stern: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 19.47 ft / 5.93 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.3 %
Waterplane Area: 18,934 Square feet or 1,759 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 422 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.68
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Range is only an issue because it's 7,500nm from Brandenburg to Ostafrika. If I stop in Neu Volgeldreck to refuel it's only 5,900nm there, then 1,600nm the rest of the way. 6000nm@14 doesn't give me much wiggle room.
Sounds like an argument to develop underway refueling and fast oilers to me ;)
Another crack at this one. Turrets are abC/y.
Kruezer 15/6b, Duetsche Reich Klein Kruezer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
6,000 t light; 6,233 t standard; 6,840 t normal; 7,325 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
515.11 ft / 508.53 ft x 50.85 ft x 17.06 ft (normal load)
157.00 m / 155.00 m x 15.50 m x 5.20 m
Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 101.41lbs / 46.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 859 lbs / 390 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 436.35 ft / 133.00 m 9.78 ft / 2.98 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 132 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.36" / 60 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.36" / 60 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 66,000 shp / 49,236 Kw = 31.24 kts
Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,092 tons
Complement:
375 - 488
Cost:
£1.526 million / $6.103 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 109 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 793 tons, 11.6 %
- Belts: 403 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 45 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 326 tons, 4.8 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,459 tons, 36.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,459 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 840 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 2.6 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,782 lbs / 2,169 Kg = 46.4 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.543
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.98 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.81 ft / 5.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 132.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.6 %
Waterplane Area: 17,923 Square feet or 1,665 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 409 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.42
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
The main battery is arranged for...more firepower against enemy torpedoboats?
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on August 21, 2010, 09:13:10 PM
The main battery is arranged for...more firepower against enemy torpedoboats?
Yes. Based on Guinness' note that the fore quarter was the most dangerous angle of attack for torpedo craft to be on. Also, I'm working on a picture.
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/15-6b.jpg)
Kruezer 15/6b, Deutsche Reich Klein Kruezer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
6,000 t light; 6,240 t standard; 6,870 t normal; 7,374 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
516.44 ft / 508.53 ft x 50.85 ft x 18.60 ft (normal load)
157.41 m / 155.00 m x 15.50 m x 5.67 m
Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 101.41lbs / 46.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 900 lbs / 408 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 425.92 ft / 129.82 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.18" / 30 mm 98.33 ft / 29.97 m 13.29 ft / 4.05 m
Main Belt covers 129 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.36" / 60 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: - 0.98" / 25 mm -
- Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.36" / 60 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 64,000 shp / 47,744 Kw = 31.15 kts
Range 7,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,134 tons
Complement:
376 - 490
Cost:
£1.511 million / $6.043 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 113 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 828 tons, 12.1 %
- Belts: 449 tons, 6.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 47 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 314 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,385 tons, 34.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,474 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 870 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.9 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,945 lbs / 2,243 Kg = 48.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.26 ft / -0.69 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.81 ft / 5.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.5 %
Waterplane Area: 17,227 Square feet or 1,600 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 414 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
C120a, Deutsche Reich Panzerkreuzer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
10,000 t light; 10,403 t standard; 11,412 t normal; 12,219 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
623.35 ft / 616.80 ft x 61.68 ft x 20.57 ft (normal load)
190.00 m / 188.00 m x 18.80 m x 6.27 m
Armament:
8 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x2 guns), 275.58lbs / 125.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,300 lbs / 1,043 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 135
8 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 431.33 ft / 131.47 m 12.20 ft / 3.72 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 3.15" / 80 mm
2nd: 1.38" / 35 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 80,000 shp / 59,680 Kw = 31.03 kts
Range 6,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,816 tons
Complement:
551 - 717
Cost:
£2.397 million / $9.588 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 294 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 2,050 tons, 18.0 %
- Belts: 683 tons, 6.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 308 tons, 2.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,025 tons, 9.0 %
- Conning Tower: 34 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,981 tons, 26.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,360 tons, 38.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,412 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 315 tons, 2.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,149 lbs / 5,057 Kg = 39.5 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.90 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Mid (58 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (13.45 ft / 4.10 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
- Stern: 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
- Average freeboard: 18.86 ft / 5.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.8 %
Waterplane Area: 25,590 Square feet or 2,377 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 531 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.16
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
looking like a 10000t PE...