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Main Archive => Navalism 3 Armed Forces => Armed Forces => New Ship Designs => Topic started by: TexanCowboy on November 15, 2009, 02:02:48 PM

Title: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 15, 2009, 02:02:48 PM
This is the only new type of ship, folks. This year is going to be mainly concerned with the big projects, the laying down of some more F-Class, and refits.


The next generation Confederate fleet torpedo ram, which is likely to be built alongside the preceding F-class. While the F-class is intended to screen and scout with the scouting force, the G-class is purely for screening the battlefleet. Five are planned, more may be built:

Quote
G-Class 4x4.75, CSA Torpedo Ram laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1,150 t light; 1,202 t standard; 1,385 t normal; 1,531 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   350.00 ft / 345.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 10.45 ft (normal load)
   106.68 m / 105.16 m x 9.75 m  x 3.19 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 203 lbs / 92 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 210
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30,000 shp / 22,380 Kw = 31.99 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 329 tons

Complement:
   113 - 147

Cost:
   £0.330 million / $1.318 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 27 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 11 tons, 0.8 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 11 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 726 tons, 52.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 336 tons, 24.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 234 tons, 16.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     301 lbs / 136 Kg = 5.6 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.86

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.420
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 81
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.70 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   17.75 ft / 5.41 m
      - Mid (40 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.80 ft / 3.60 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,883 Square feet or 639 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 138 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.94
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weights:
25 tons: Fire control
12 tons: Torpedoes
4 tons: 12 depth charges (launched from stern racks)
9 tons: Reserve

Seakeeping at 28.5 knots: 1.12
Trial Speed: 32.84

Range at 15 knots: 3605 nm
Range at 20 knots: 1730 nm
Range at 25 knots: 925 nm
Range at 28.5 knots: 620 nm, 21.75 hours
Range at top speed: 429 nm, 13.4 hours




Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 19, 2009, 04:03:20 PM
The "secret" of the DKB.

CSS Knoxville, CSA  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   6,801 t light; 7,222 t standard; 7,755 t normal; 8,181 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   531.50 ft / 520.00 ft x 52.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
   162.00 m / 158.50 m x 15.85 m  x 6.40 m

Armament:
      9 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (3x3 guns), 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,362 lbs / 1,071 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   430.00 ft / 131.06 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.20" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 62,062 shp / 46,298 Kw = 30.50 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 959 tons

Complement:
   413 - 537

Cost:
   £1.543 million / $6.171 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 250 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 1,052 tons, 13.6 %
      - Belts: 595 tons, 7.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 49 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 392 tons, 5.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,312 tons, 29.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,035 tons, 39.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 955 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 151 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,596 lbs / 2,538 Kg = 26.5 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.478
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.63 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.08 ft / 7.64 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   15.96 ft / 4.86 m
      - Mid (35 %):      15.96 ft / 4.86 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.96 ft / 4.86 m
      - Stern:      15.96 ft / 4.86 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.51 ft / 5.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,664 Square feet or 1,641 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Misc Weights:
100t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
16t: 8 Torpedoes
10t: Reserve

Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 19, 2009, 04:28:16 PM
I can't imagine that a triple 7.5" deck mount will be of much combat value, but I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Jefgte on November 19, 2009, 04:58:40 PM
Good project.
With that kind of armament, protection is too light.
IMO, add 200t of protection (belt to 3.5" or 4"...) & increase the displacement to 7000T


Jef
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 19, 2009, 08:53:15 PM
Sorry, I was limited to 6,800 by the DKB. Rocky, I agree with you. However, it exists. Do mounts turn by hand?
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Sachmle on November 19, 2009, 08:58:27 PM
Quote from: TexanCowboy on November 19, 2009, 08:53:15 PM
Sorry, I was limited to 6,800 by the DKB. Rocky, I agree with you. However, it exists. Do mounts turn by hand?

No, you were limited to 6,000t...but weaseled an extra 800t out of me. Another 200t isn't out of the question, but when combined with the 800t will cost you something.. we can work it out. As long as she fits in a type 2 slip/dock and isn't OMG expensive..we can work it out.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Borys on November 20, 2009, 12:26:30 AM
250lbs for a 7,5" is a bit much. 215-220lbs is more like it.
Triple 7,5" mount&hoist is probably unworkable, calling for turret&barbette.
Borys
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 20, 2009, 06:35:51 AM
Change it up later... busy as heck day.  ;D
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: maddox on November 20, 2009, 06:51:39 AM
Triple turrets, even 3" mandate mount and hoist.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 20, 2009, 03:39:44 PM
Better?

CSS Knoxville, CSA  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,168 t light; 7,601 t standard; 8,343 t normal; 8,936 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   545.65 ft / 534.00 ft x 52.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   166.32 m / 162.76 m x 15.85 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      9 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (3x3 guns), 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,362 lbs / 1,071 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   415.00 ft / 126.49 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.20" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 64,042 shp / 47,775 Kw = 30.50 kts
   Range 8,100nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,335 tons

Complement:
   436 - 567

Cost:
   £1.589 million / $6.356 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 250 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 1,211 tons, 14.5 %
      - Belts: 675 tons, 8.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 116 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 403 tons, 4.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,386 tons, 28.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,170 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,175 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 151 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,422 lbs / 2,913 Kg = 30.4 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.478
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.63 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.42 ft / 7.75 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Mid (35 %):      16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Stern:      16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.73 ft / 5.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,140 Square feet or 1,685 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Misc Weights:
100t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
16t: 8 Torpedoes
10t: Reserve
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Kaiser Kirk on November 20, 2009, 04:04:05 PM
a large, heavily gunned light cruiser.
The cramped accomodations may wear on your crew considering you have fuel for a month.
The very narrow long hull pushes both BC and L:B.

Comparing her to the OTL USS Pensacola which is only a little larger in displacement, and 2 knots faster, she's 40 shorter, 13 feet narrower and 7 feet deeper.
Considering that on the USS Pensacola which was 2,4, 4, 2, "A" was twin and "B" was triple, ostensibly because of hull width at "A", I would have concerns regarding the feasibility of the triple 7.5".

While USS Northhampton might be a better comparison due to the 3x3 layout, she was 55 feet longer and 14 ft wider..so beam remains a concern for me.

"Other" turret armor at 0.5" is overdone for weather proofing, and insufficient for even light shell splinters. It can be halved or doubled depending on which one you are attempting.

Lastly, looking at CSA's naval weapons, I dont' see a triple 7.5" mount or turret, only a single.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 20, 2009, 04:23:36 PM
Quote7.5"L50 Triple Mount                      $0.00         3Completed

Never put it in my naval gun list. It's under my 2/16 report.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 20, 2009, 05:57:09 PM
You'll need capital ship fire control on her.

I agree with Kirk's observations on the L:W ratio and width considerations; I think the BC is okay for her size.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 20, 2009, 09:38:29 PM
CSS Knoxville, CSA  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,433 t light; 7,837 t standard; 8,590 t normal; 9,192 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.65 ft / 540.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 21.17 ft (normal load)
   168.14 m / 164.59 m x 16.46 m  x 6.45 m

Armament:
      9 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (3x3 guns), 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
   Weight of broadside 2,358 lbs / 1,069 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 175
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   416.00 ft / 126.80 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   2nd:   0.30" / 8 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.30" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 65,326 shp / 48,733 Kw = 30.50 kts
   Range 8,100nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,355 tons

Complement:
   445 - 579

Cost:
   £1.620 million / $6.480 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 249 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 1,180 tons, 13.7 %
      - Belts: 679 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 127 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 355 tons, 4.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,434 tons, 28.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,274 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,157 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 296 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,738 lbs / 3,056 Kg = 31.9 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.487
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.63 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.42 ft / 7.75 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Mid (35 %):      16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Stern:      16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.73 ft / 5.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,202 Square feet or 1,784 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 505 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.42
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Misc Weights:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
16t: 8 Torpedoes
5t: Reserve

CSS Knoxville, CSA  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,433 t light; 7,837 t standard; 8,590 t normal; 9,192 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.65 ft / 540.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 21.17 ft (normal load)
   168.14 m / 164.59 m x 16.46 m  x 6.45 m

Armament:
      9 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (3x3 guns), 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
   Weight of broadside 2,358 lbs / 1,069 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 175
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   416.00 ft / 126.80 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   2nd:   0.30" / 8 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.30" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 65,326 shp / 48,733 Kw = 30.50 kts
   Range 8,100nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,355 tons

Complement:
   445 - 579

Cost:
   £1.620 million / $6.480 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 249 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 1,180 tons, 13.7 %
      - Belts: 679 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 127 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 355 tons, 4.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,434 tons, 28.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,274 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,157 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 296 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,738 lbs / 3,056 Kg = 31.9 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.487
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.63 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.42 ft / 7.75 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Mid (35 %):      16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Stern:      16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.73 ft / 5.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,202 Square feet or 1,784 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 505 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.42
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Misc Weights:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
16t: 8 Torpedoes
5t: Reserve
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Guinness on November 20, 2009, 09:50:18 PM
What's the mission here?

In the past the CSA had three kinds of Cruisers that did three different missions:

3rd class: tactical scouting and working with the odd torpedo ram
2nd class: strategic scouting/reconnaissance, with a secondary role of trade warfare
1st class: Capital ship roles when the whole battlefleet would be too much, and anchoring the scouting force for the battlefleet. Find the enemy's main body and coral them so the battleships can bring their guns to bear.

You are, of course, not obliged to follow these delineations, but it's a good idea to define the role for this ship. Is it just a really big 3rd class cruiser, or a diminutive 2nd class cruiser?

If the former, something around 7000 tons shipping 8 or 10 (or maybe even 12) 5.5" guns, adequate armor, and 31.5 or 32 knots with plenty of freeboard seems it might be a better choice. If the later, I think you may want more bunkerage and maybe more speed, and might need to be prepared to go up to 9000 tons with the same armament. More or less a treaty cruiser.

Either way: a while back I dove into the books and came to the conclusion that all (or nearly all, not sure about the Italian ships) of the OTL treaty cruisers shipped turrets on barbettes, even if the barbettes were pretty thin. This had structural advantages as well as packaging advantages: the entire hoist chain could be enclosed in the barbettes.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: maddox on November 20, 2009, 10:18:30 PM
I see in her a light Demarce IV.

But a few remarks

1, the armor is too short, it doesn't cover the magazines and engines.
2 what will the 3.5" guns shoot at?
3 why an armored conning tower?
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Kaiser Kirk on November 20, 2009, 10:32:39 PM
Quote from: maddox on November 20, 2009, 10:18:30 PM
3 why an armored conning tower?

Well, I don't know why Texan chose it, but  2" will stop all shell splinters and pure HE rounds. So it proofs the control area against anything but a direct hit from a medium common or an AP round. Fairly cheap "cost" tonnage wise. Not sure if it meets some design goal or not :)
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 21, 2009, 08:22:38 AM
3.5'' are standard anti-torpedo boat guns. They would be occupied shooting at small destroyers while the main guns concentrate on something more important.

Guiness, this is a hybrid between the 3rd and 2nd class. The following 3rd class will be about 4,000 tons. This is because 2nd class cruiser are getting too expensive at 16.5 BP. Think battlecruiser for 3rd and 2nd class cruisers.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 21, 2009, 08:24:21 AM
CSS Knoxville, CSA  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,433 t light; 7,837 t standard; 8,590 t normal; 9,192 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.65 ft / 540.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 21.17 ft (normal load)
   168.14 m / 164.59 m x 16.46 m  x 6.45 m

Armament:
      9 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (3x3 guns), 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
   Weight of broadside 2,358 lbs / 1,069 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 175
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   11.40 ft / 3.47 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   2nd:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 65,326 shp / 48,733 Kw = 30.50 kts
   Range 8,100nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,355 tons

Complement:
   445 - 579

Cost:
   £1.620 million / $6.480 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 249 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 1,179 tons, 13.7 %
      - Belts: 679 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 127 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 355 tons, 4.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,434 tons, 28.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,275 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,157 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 296 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,739 lbs / 3,057 Kg = 31.9 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.487
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.63 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.42 ft / 7.75 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Mid (35 %):      16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Stern:      16.18 ft / 4.93 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.73 ft / 5.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,202 Square feet or 1,784 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 505 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Misc Weights:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
16t: 8 Torpedoes
5t: Reserve

Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 21, 2009, 08:42:07 AM
It's a Class 2.5 cruiser, then.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 21, 2009, 08:45:00 AM
In the background...
Well, since that goes 30.5 knots and not 30.6, it is a class 2.565445655 cruiser.

But yeah, it is.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Jefgte on November 21, 2009, 04:56:31 PM
A correct well balanced cruiser.

;)
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 22, 2009, 08:03:03 AM
Thank you. It began as an exercise to design a heavy cruiser for Wesworld Italy, as their light cruisers are 2,500 tons.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on December 15, 2009, 04:02:02 PM
A response to the New Gran Columbian Cruiser, this equivelent should be layed down in H2/1918.

CSS Austin, CSA  Plane Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4,449 t light; 4,586 t standard; 4,994 t normal; 5,321 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   511.28 ft / 500.00 ft x 46.00 ft x 15.20 ft (normal load)
   155.84 m / 152.40 m x 14.02 m  x 4.63 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 53.59lbs / 24.31kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 21.44lbs / 9.73kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      2 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 308 lbs / 140 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.75" / 70 mm   354.00 ft / 107.90 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 39,184 shp / 29,231 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 734 tons

Complement:
   296 - 386

Cost:
   £0.785 million / $3.140 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 39 tons, 0.8 %
   Armour: 777 tons, 15.6 %
      - Belts: 457 tons, 9.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 284 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,460 tons, 29.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,798 tons, 36.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 545 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 375 tons, 7.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,300 lbs / 2,404 Kg = 98.9 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.87 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.63 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.60 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Mid (35 %):      15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Stern:      15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.19 ft / 4.93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,324 Square feet or 1,424 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 346 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
100t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
250 t: 10 Planes
50 t: reserve

Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Walter on December 15, 2009, 04:03:49 PM
QuoteMain belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
Probably needs to be slightly longer. :)
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on December 15, 2009, 04:24:07 PM
A matter of feet.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: The Rock Doctor on December 15, 2009, 04:30:34 PM
If it's a response, you should wait until after I've actually laid it down.

Is there room on this ship for 10 aircraft?
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on December 15, 2009, 07:57:49 PM
Most would be in storage. If you read my news, there was a arcticle about mounting flying-off ramps on B turrets of battleships. These are the repair facilities for them. In practice, it would carry 6.
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on December 17, 2009, 03:46:08 PM
Fixing the main belt, and cut planes down to 6:

Floater Carrier, CSA  Plane-Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   3,970 t light; 4,101 t standard; 4,671 t normal; 5,127 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   445.52 ft / 435.00 ft x 38.75 ft x 18.83 ft (normal load)
   135.79 m / 132.59 m x 11.81 m  x 5.74 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (2x2 guns), 53.59lbs / 24.31kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 21.44lbs / 9.73kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      2 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 308 lbs / 140 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.75" / 70 mm   354.00 ft / 107.90 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 125 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.50" / 38 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 40,000 shp / 29,840 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 9,005nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,026 tons

Complement:
   282 - 367

Cost:
   £0.760 million / $3.039 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 39 tons, 0.8 %
   Armour: 693 tons, 14.8 %
      - Belts: 448 tons, 9.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 211 tons, 4.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,490 tons, 31.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,473 tons, 31.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 701 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 275 tons, 5.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,650 lbs / 1,656 Kg = 68.1 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.63 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.94 ft / 6.99 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   14.60 ft / 4.45 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (35 %):      14.60 ft / 4.45 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.60 ft / 4.45 m
      - Stern:      14.60 ft / 4.45 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.34 ft / 4.68 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 116.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,386 Square feet or 1,058 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 323 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.89
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
100t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
150 t: 6 Planes
50 t: reserve
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: Jefgte on December 17, 2009, 05:17:41 PM
IMO, the hull is too small...
4 mounts 120
4 mounts 88
2 mounts 40
4 mounts 25
& 6 planes

I would like to see the drawing, (profil & top) with all the mounts, bridge, funnel(s) lifeboats & the 6 planes on a 135m hull !!!


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: New Confederate Ships for 1918
Post by: TexanCowboy on December 17, 2009, 06:05:35 PM
I can't draw. God knows it. As planned, they will be double mounts located to the sides of the funnels. The 88's can be eliminated. The 40's are standard Anti-Air, and the same with the 25's.