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Main Archive => Navalism 3 Armed Forces => Armed Forces => New Ship Designs => Topic started by: TexanCowboy on November 07, 2009, 08:57:35 PM

Title: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 07, 2009, 08:57:35 PM
A carrier conversion of the ex-St-Louis. Cost is $.6 for the hangers+planes, plus $.1 for the fuel conversion ??? and $.77 and .31 BP, or $1.47 and .31 BP total. The planes will come out of the Air Force. And yes, I know the laydown date was 1902, but I needed 1918 so I could put the AA guns. I may buuld up to 3.

St.Louis, CSA Carrier Conversion laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   3,070 t light; 3,168 t standard; 3,467 t normal; 3,706 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   390.00 ft / 390.00 ft x 41.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
   118.87 m / 118.87 m x 12.50 m  x 4.27 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2.24" / 56.9 mm guns in single mounts, 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 190 lbs / 86 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 210

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,103 ihp / 9,029 Kw = 22.10 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 538 tons

Complement:
   225 - 293

Cost:
   £0.451 million / $1.805 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 21 tons, 0.6 %
   Armour: 195 tons, 5.6 %
      - Belts: 87 tons, 2.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 102 tons, 3.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 719 tons, 20.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,506 tons, 43.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 396 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 630 tons, 18.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,037 lbs / 2,738 Kg = 281.6 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.542
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.51 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.50 ft / 7.47 m (24.00 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      23.50 ft / 7.16 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   23.50 ft / 7.16 m
      - Stern:      23.50 ft / 7.16 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.82 ft / 7.26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 221.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,076 Square feet or 1,029 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 143 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 268 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.80
      - Longitudinal: 7.51
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

400 tons- 16 planes- 6 fighter-scouts, 5 bombers, 5 torpedo bombers
200 tons- hull inefficenticies
25 tons- destroyer FC
5- Misc.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 07, 2009, 09:03:32 PM
Compared to any otl carrier, conversion or purpose build, very short.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 07, 2009, 09:15:09 PM
Using a refits right to increase the length by 20%(10% bow, 10% amidship), and increase the beam by 5%, I did so. (Sigh) But it adds another 1.6 BP and $1.6, making it $3.07 and 2.31 BP. Oh well. Maybe I'll scrap frigates to get the BP.

St.Louis, CSA Carrier Conversion laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   3,719 t light; 3,831 t standard; 4,195 t normal; 4,486 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   430.00 ft / 430.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
   131.06 m / 131.06 m x 13.72 m  x 4.27 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2.24" / 56.9 mm guns in single mounts, 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 190 lbs / 86 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 210

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.50" / 13 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,426 ihp / 11,508 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 655 tons

Complement:
   259 - 338

Cost:
   £0.552 million / $2.208 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 21 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 222 tons, 5.3 %
      - Belts: 70 tons, 1.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 124 tons, 3.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 917 tons, 21.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,780 tons, 42.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 476 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 780 tons, 18.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,218 lbs / 3,274 Kg = 336.7 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.542
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.50 ft / 7.47 m (24.00 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      23.50 ft / 7.16 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   23.50 ft / 7.16 m
      - Stern:      23.50 ft / 7.16 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.82 ft / 7.26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 232.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,403 Square feet or 1,245 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 292 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.83
      - Longitudinal: 5.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

500 tons- 20 planes- 7 fighter-scouts, 7 bombers, 6 torpedo bombers
250 tons- hull inefficenticies
25 tons- destroyer FC
5- Misc.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Walter on November 08, 2009, 02:17:36 AM
I'd love to know how you plan to increase the ship's beam from 41 to 45 feet without bulging it...
... and from reading the construction rules:
QuoteThe bow may be lengthened by up to 5% of overall length.  A new section may be added amidships, up to 5% of overall length.
So as far as I can see, it is not possible to increase the length by more than 10% (so the maximum overall length is 429 feet)...
... and it is not possible to increase the beam of the ship (unless bulges are used).
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 02:18:40 AM
Exactly Walter.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Walter on November 08, 2009, 02:26:51 AM
It is still too short for a full length deck. On the other hand, no one has that tech yet, so we're dealing with the flying-off deck tech level, so that might work with that short length...
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: ctwaterman on November 08, 2009, 02:30:06 AM
Is this suposed to be a float plane tender or what.... because its certainly not going to be a real carrier.

Charles
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Walter on November 08, 2009, 02:32:45 AM
As  I said, no one has the proper tech level yet, so it won't be a real carrier until the 1922 tech level is reearched. Personally, your suggestion as floatplane tender is in my eyes the better option right now.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: ctwaterman on November 08, 2009, 02:52:36 AM
Im looking at a Civilian Merchant Hull built to a military Specs with some cranes, a work shop or two, some small boats and a couple of cranes.  It will be able to support many more aircraft then it can actually carry :)

Considering the availability rates for aircraft of this period seeing half the planes ready to fly on any given day would be an out and out miriacle.   Unless you curtailed operations for a few days to get maximum aircraft into the air.

Charles
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Guinness on November 08, 2009, 05:48:06 AM
FYI: I believe you can leave the lay down date 1902 and just change the gun date to 1918 so they can be AA guns.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 06:38:26 AM
No problem changing deck mounts for more modern ones.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 08, 2009, 07:35:06 AM
Ok. Bi-planes won't work? They have greater lifts at slower speeds.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 07:39:00 AM
There were biplanes that could take off on the speed of the ship itself, if it was going flank speed against the wind, but those are fragile, slow contraptions.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 08, 2009, 07:46:43 AM
Well, its what I'm limited to now. And the RN still used them at Taranto to sink 3 battleships. I see this ship going the way of the Langley.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 08:12:57 AM
Big difference between a group of Stringbags/ Fairey Swordfish torpedo bomber biplanes and a 1910 30 kts liftoff biplane.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 08, 2009, 09:11:41 AM
I think I'll be going with the 1st as a floatplane carrier.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 09:23:33 AM
The first usable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopwith_Cuckoo) torpedo bomber. Those can carry a 1000 lbs torpedo.  That's a small 16" torpedo.

And no, those can't take off with that load from a fly off foredeck on a small ship. As floatplane, it works a lot better.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 08, 2009, 09:28:41 AM
A floatplane Cuckoo. Yeah, I think thats what I'll be doing.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 09:29:36 AM
Here we see the birth of the CSA floatplane tender, something that was becoming for a while now.     :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 08, 2009, 09:31:16 AM
Can I have a carrier built to mercantile standerds, AKA, I was going to have it built as a depot ship, but I changed the design?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 09:46:51 AM
QuoteSPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES

Mercantile Standards/Auxiliaries

A ship in government service may be built to mercantile standards if armament and armor take up no more than 2% of the ship's weight at normal displacement.  Such ships could include colliers, transports, survey ships, and others.

Tenders, as described below, can not be built to mercantile standards

In this case, the cash and BP cost of construction is quartered.  This also pertains to upkeep, future repair, refit, and scrapping of the vessel.  The time required to build, refit, repair, or scrap the ship remains unchanged, however.

Moderators have may require a ship to be built to normal military standards if they believe that the intent of a design is to produce a cheap warship.

I believe this answers.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 08, 2009, 09:52:29 AM
Can I build it to tender spec?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 09:57:00 AM
There is a small semantic situation involved with "Seaplane tender".

For now, Tenders are for ships purposes. But I myself can see a small change in wording being very functional.

In other words, it's possible that 1918 will bring that change.
QuoteTenders

A tender is an auxiliary which can supply all the amenities of a port, to some degree.  It generally carries accommodation space and amenities for crews of small vessels, workshops, warehouses, stores, and fuel.  Up to half of the weight of these facilties may be simmed as extra fuel bunkerage; the remainder may only be simmed as miscellaneous weight.  Regardless, it all counts as functional miscelleneous weight for the purposes of costing.

For every thousand tonnes of facilities aboard the tender, four thousand tonnes of shipping may use the tender as their "port". 

Tenders may conduct overhauls, basic refits, and basic repairs to ships so long as the work would not require a drydock.  If the tender has twelve thousand tonnnes or more of facilities aboard, it is large enough to undertake refurbishments as well.

The BP cost of a tender is like any ship built to merchantile standards - 0.25 * (Light Displacement - Non-functional miscellaneous weight).  The cash cost, however, is not quartered.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Sachmle on November 08, 2009, 10:11:20 AM
I can see if for Storyline purposes that a 'merchant vessel' was bought and converted into a seaplane tender then the cost to 'build' this seaplane tender should only be whatever material was 'added' to the 'merchant ship' which was already in existence. But since we pay no $/BP to build/upkeep merchant ships per se ( We all have a merchant marine to one degree or another, but never pay for it.) how does one figure this? SS a generic merchant ship, figure out what needs added/subtracted/moved to make a seaplane tender out of it, pay for those materials, and call it a day? I see this as one more reason a 'merchant marine' cost IS needed or at least that 'generic merchant ship' folder that was floated about for N4. Then you'd just pay $X to 'buy' the merchant ship.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: maddox on November 08, 2009, 11:35:29 AM
Sachmle,  the merchant marine a country has is a part of the IC. Revenue generators.

If a merchant vessel is included in the books of the marine, upkeep has to be payed accordingly.
For most of us it's not even a blip on the screen.
But a floatplane tender, or a (blimp)carrier is a pure military vessel, no other use possible... And then it's "see the rules".
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Sachmle on November 08, 2009, 11:48:11 AM
Correct a seaplane/blimp/whatever tender are military ships, and must be built by the rules, if being built from SCRATCH. However if Nation A buys a merchant ship that's already in service from "Smith Shipping Co." and CONVERTS said ship to a tender, how does one pay for it? You didn't BUILD the ship, so you don't pay building costs, you only CONVERTED it, so do you only pay for the conversion materials and then regular upkeep from then out?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Borys on November 08, 2009, 12:04:33 PM
Ahoj!
Play the game, not the rules. IMO converting a merchant to a tender should cost the same as building from scratch.
Borys
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 08, 2009, 04:47:11 PM
First, see here for carrier design guidelines.  It speaks to costs associated with conversions.  This has been languishing in the Naval Discussion area without being added to the rules - now that Tex and I and others are playing with carriers, it has been moved to the Rules.

I think I'm okay with one merchant hull being purchased and converted.  I would suggest:

-Sim the merchant.  It must conform to the guidelines for merchies, and the Moderators should be satisfied that its characteristics are typical for the period. 

-Cost for the merchant hull is full (military) cash value if in service less than a year (because it's a real pain in the arse for the owner to find a replacement on short notice); there is no BP cost.  For additional every year in service, deduct five percent from the cost.  Time to locate, purchase, and re-design the ship is six months.

-Undertake a full reconstruction.  Full BP and cash costs are paid - as if the hull were mil-spec - because all the new stuff is mil-spec.

If you want to convert more than one hull, expect to pay more - ship owners will get wind that the CSN is looking for specific hulls.

Does this seem reasonable?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 08, 2009, 04:49:47 PM
Yeah. That sounds fine.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 12, 2009, 08:10:52 PM
Ok, here is my merchant. It is a liner, chosen for its high speed. The cost for me to purchase it is $10.1.

Unity, CSA First Class High Speed Liner laid down 1915

Displacement:
   11,719 t light; 12,043 t standard; 16,205 t normal; 19,535 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 22.86 m  x 7.62 m

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 73,024 shp / 54,476 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 22.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,492 tons

Complement:
   717 - 933

Cost:
   £1.160 million / $4.639 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 2,766 tons, 17.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,953 tons, 24.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,486 tons, 27.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,000 tons, 30.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,566 lbs / 7,968 Kg = 162.6 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.80 ft / 7.86 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.42 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.42 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.42 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.42 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.17 ft / 5.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,788 Square feet or 2,674 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 461 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Macroni-25 tons
Extra Boats-425 tons



Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 12, 2009, 08:15:40 PM
...is that post complete?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 12, 2009, 08:16:35 PM
Yes.... I was going to post the modified version, but I though it would be better to see if its even legal.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 12, 2009, 08:21:55 PM
As a liner, she ought to have freeboard of 1/3 to 1/2 her beam - passenger accommodation takes up a lot of space.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Sachmle on November 12, 2009, 08:22:48 PM
I see Rocky beat me to it.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 12, 2009, 08:26:26 PM
Better?

Unity, CSA Liner laid down 1915

Displacement:
   12,314 t light; 12,638 t standard; 16,205 t normal; 19,059 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 22.86 m  x 7.62 m

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 73,024 shp / 54,476 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 6,800nm at 21.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,421 tons

Complement:
   717 - 933

Cost:
   £1.190 million / $4.761 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 2,766 tons, 17.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,548 tons, 28.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,891 tons, 24.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,000 tons, 30.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,039 lbs / 9,543 Kg = 194.8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      35.00 ft / 10.67 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Stern:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.65 ft / 7.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 191.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,788 Square feet or 2,674 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 479 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Macroni-25 tons
Extra Boats-425 tons




Macroni-25 tons
Extra Boats-425 tons
Passangers-4,500 tons-450 passangers
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 12, 2009, 08:28:50 PM
You'll need to tweek the engine year.  The rest looks okay at a glance.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Sachmle on November 12, 2009, 08:36:00 PM
This has reminded me, where are the weight/passenger rules for lines now? I can't find them.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 12, 2009, 08:36:55 PM
I'll modify the rest later, but it doesn't really affect the total cost of rebuilding. This ship will cost 2.27 BP and $5.24 to rebuild, or $16.24 total. I don't know if I need to add costs for the planes, since I'm actually decreasing misc. weight, not adding. The planes will come from the Air Force.

Unity, CSA First Class High Speed Liner laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   13,765 t light; 14,250 t standard; 16,205 t normal; 17,769 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   553.06 ft / 550.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   168.57 m / 167.64 m x 22.86 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
     4 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.19lbs / 37.73kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     8 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.19lbs / 37.73kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     12 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 21.44lbs / 9.72kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,256 lbs / 569 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

  - Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 96,988 shp / 72,353 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,519 tons

Complement:
   717 - 933

Cost:
   £2.239 million / $8.956 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 157 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 349 tons, 2.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 238 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 110 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,614 tons, 22.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,646 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,440 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4,000 tons, 24.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,476 lbs / 8,381 Kg = 222.1 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 17.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      35.00 ft / 10.67 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   34.00 ft / 10.36 m (33.00 ft / 10.06 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      32.00 ft / 9.75 m (31.00 ft / 9.45 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   33.00 ft / 10.06 m (32.00 ft / 9.75 m before break)
      - Stern:      34.00 ft / 10.36 m
      - Average freeboard:   32.68 ft / 9.96 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 244.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,788 Square feet or 2,674 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 104 lbs/sq ft or 507 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 4.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

45 Planes: 3,750 Tons
Fire Control:100 Tons
Sonar:50 Tons
Radar:50 Tons
Climitization:50 Tons

15 Fighter-Scouts, 15 Bombers, 15 Torpedo Bombers
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 12, 2009, 08:42:14 PM
The miscellaneous weight in the liner is fancy bedrooms and dining rooms, though, not hanger decks and avgas.

So when is the conversion taking place, and how far along is the ship supposed to be at the time?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: ctwaterman on November 12, 2009, 09:27:19 PM
Im currently working on the Design of the First Italian Float Plane Tender.  I just couldnt afford to put it on to the slips last HY.

Im working on a version of my small tenders converted on the drawing boards to service small aircraft engines and float planes and not ships.   It is in effect a mobile small machine repair shop with extra boats, crew quarters and accomidations, and an armory.   Im sure it can maintain more aircraft then it can carry but any additional aircraft would have to be delivered in crates and assembled where ever it has been set up or flown in seperately.

I will try to finish the SS report in the near future.  I viewed this as a strait up use of the Tender Rules as this is not a functional warship like a real carrier and realistically is very similar to a Submarine Tender, or a Torpedo Boat Tender then a functional Carrier.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: Blooded on November 12, 2009, 10:11:09 PM
The liner breakdowns can still be found in the 'Old Rules' section/Ship construction post at the bottom of the main page.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 13, 2009, 06:34:02 AM
Ok, Rocky, so I add $2 and 2 BP to the cost. The ship has been in service since 1915, I'll tweak that, and this construction will take place in 1/1918.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 13, 2009, 04:14:03 PM
You know, when I said I'd be okay with a conversion, I meant something period appropriate - a collier, or a slow merchantman. 

Do you even have the tech to build this?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: ledeper on November 13, 2009, 04:45:41 PM
As far as I can see ,no!,since CSA hadn`t progressed longer than :

QuoteAircraft/Seaplane Carriers
1910: experimental aviation ships; automatically granted upon completion of the 1910 Aircraft (1914 models) tech.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 13, 2009, 04:46:24 PM
I have 1915, seperate decks. I see this ship in constant refit and repair. And liners did exist. But I gave you the design for approval. Is it all right?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 13, 2009, 04:47:12 PM
Finished in 1917/H2
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 13, 2009, 04:50:52 PM
1915 is just flying-off ramps.  No landing decks till the next tech.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 13, 2009, 05:42:53 PM
Well, can I purchase the ship now, as a conversion to a troop transport, and then change it into a carrier when the next tech comes along?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 13, 2009, 06:11:01 PM
Can the CSA see into the future?
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: TexanCowboy on November 13, 2009, 09:33:46 PM
Err.... scrap it. I already have one planeship with my floatplane tender. I'll convert something in 1920-21.
Title: Re: Carrier Conversion
Post by: ctwaterman on November 13, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
Exactly....  3 or 4 people just got the ability to make float plane carriers [Lets call them Tenders]  Planes are launched and recovered by use of a Craine.   They take off and land hopefully in a sheltered cove somewhere but maybe on the sea if your in the Mediteranian, Black Sea or its a calm day in the South Pacific.

A True Carrier with take off and landing decks is a minimum of 6 years off realistically.