To utilize their new 16"/40 quadruple turret design the new Orange administration is seeking additional opinions on how do design the smallest practically possible platform to hold 2 such turrets. The ship has to be decently armored against known adversaries though and while speed and range is not a priority, the new ships should not be step back compared to the existing Orange battlefleet.
Design guidelines
- a small Battleship to hold two 16" quads, 960 kg shell weight, 120 to 150 shells per gun
- if possible it should fit into a type 2 Dock/Slip (170 m)
- a full fledged anti-BB-armor, "All or Nothing" concept is available
- 1916 Engine year, electric drive, not much less than 23 knots (more is preferred of course)
- give range at 15 knots for comparision
- anti-torpedo-boat-battery may consist of 6" or 5" guns in twin or single turrets or casemate arrangement, 48 and 28 kg shell weight
Ok, I hope I didn't forget something important.
Waiting for your suggestions - I'm curious :)
Edit:
added shell weight and shells per gun
Two quad 16" is going to be a tub. At one point it was suggested we try to use max widths for docks and a size 2 had a 93' max(I have been using this, though I dont believe it was official) .
I have used size 0=230'/38'; 1=393'/66'; 2=557'/93'; 3=721'/120'. if using metric you get a hair more in size. The idea was to limit max widths to 6:1 so that infrastructure had to be invested in( as the British had to do around the turn of the century).
I see it as a good idea.
Does Orange have specific requirements for:
-Seakeeping/Steadiness/Stability
-Miscellaneous weight (Fire Control, etc)
The secundaries in turret/barbette setup, and how many?
Quote from: Blooded on September 11, 2009, 09:18:24 AM
The idea was to limit max widths to 6:1 so that infrastructure had to be invested in( as the British had to do around the turn of the century).
I haven't heard of such a limit so far. And since real world Battleships like the Nassau-class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_class_battleship) had a L:B-ratio of only 5.4:1 and most (at least German ships) were (slightly) below 6:1, i would place it (if necessary) at 5:1 (and 4:1 for size-0). But that is not the point here, isn't it?
Up to 31 meters beam should be ok I think.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 11, 2009, 09:23:52 AM
Does Orange have specific requirements for:
-Seakeeping/Steadiness/Stability
-Miscellaneous weight (Fire Control, etc)
Good question. All values should be "ok" meaning
seekeeping and stability >1
steadiness around 50, at least >30
Miscellaneous weight... I was hoping to learn here what I need ;D
Anyway a ship without fire control is pointless, isn't it? So FC, Radar (maybe 2 because they are unreliable) and long range radio are considered a "must have" by the new administration. And a small building reserve for future grow (more AA and a floatplane) should not be forgotten. Torpedos are considered too dangerous for such a cramped craft though.
Is that enough now?
btw is the a way to get rid of that "DevComponents unregistered component" popup whenever I start springsharp? (without buying it of course) I can't remember having seen it last time I used Springsharp.
P.S.:
Quote from: maddox on September 11, 2009, 10:43:51 AM
The secundaries in turret/barbette setup, and how many?
Thats up to you, anything between 5 and 8 guns per side would be plausible. Maybe superfiring secondaries behind/above the main turrets?
Quick throw-together
Enter ship name, Orange Enter ship type laid down 1916
Displacement:
24 600 t light; 26 376 t standard; 28 500 t normal; 30 199 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 557,74 ft x 98,43 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 170,00 m x 30,00 m x 9,00 m
Armament:
8 - 15,98" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2 041,96lbs / 926,22kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all aft
8 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all forward
Weight of broadside 17 836 lbs / 8 090 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 377,30 ft / 115,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,57" / 40 mm 377,30 ft / 115,00 m 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,8" / 350 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 12,6" / 320 mm
2nd: 3,94" / 100 mm 3,94" / 100 mm -
3rd: 3,54" / 90 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 2,76" / 70 mm
- Armour deck: 3,74" / 95 mm, Conning tower: 13,78" / 350 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 50 000 shp / 37 300 Kw = 23,01 kts
Range 6 680nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3 823 tons
Complement:
1 096 - 1 425
Cost:
£4,900 million / $19,601 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 229 tons, 7,8 %
Armour: 9 014 tons, 31,6 %
- Belts: 3 430 tons, 12,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 649 tons, 2,3 %
- Armament: 1 840 tons, 6,5 %
- Armour Deck: 2 818 tons, 9,9 %
- Conning Tower: 277 tons, 1,0 %
Machinery: 1 863 tons, 6,5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11 144 tons, 39,1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 900 tons, 13,7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1,2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33 193 lbs / 15 056 Kg = 16,3 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 5,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
Metacentric height 6,6 ft / 2,0 m
Roll period: 16,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,615
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Mid (65 %): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m (13,12 ft / 4,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Stern: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Average freeboard: 18,85 ft / 5,75 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133,1 %
Waterplane Area: 40 730 Square feet or 3 784 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 202 lbs/sq ft or 987 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,92
- Longitudinal: 1,95
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
It was an old conversation, the 6:1 limit was put down quickly. Personally, I am fine with down to 5:1 for most bulkier types.
It would appear the beam limit for docks was not put into effect. Perhaps, something to consider anyway.
Best of luck, I am sure you will see many nice ships appear here.
Another throw together:
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
24.000 t light; 25.632 t standard; 27.600 t normal; 29.174 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
556,29 ft / 552,82 ft x 98,43 ft x 30,35 ft (normal load)
169,56 m / 168,50 m x 30,00 m x 9,25 m
Armament:
8 - 15,94" / 405 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.026,91lbs / 919,39kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 17.459 lbs / 7.919 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,8" / 350 mm 381,82 ft / 116,38 m 11,91 ft / 3,63 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 4,92" / 125 mm 414,63 ft / 126,38 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,18" / 30 mm 414,63 ft / 126,38 m 28,61 ft / 8,72 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,8" / 350 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 11,8" / 300 mm
2nd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0,20" / 5 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 52.749 shp / 39.351 Kw = 23,50 kts
Range 7.500nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.542 tons
Complement:
1.069 - 1.391
Cost:
£5,361 million / $21,442 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.182 tons, 7,9 %
Armour: 8.676 tons, 31,4 %
- Belts: 3.438 tons, 12,5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 518 tons, 1,9 %
- Armament: 1.630 tons, 5,9 %
- Armour Deck: 2.858 tons, 10,4 %
- Conning Tower: 232 tons, 0,8 %
Machinery: 1.965 tons, 7,1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.676 tons, 38,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.600 tons, 13,0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1,8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29.106 lbs / 13.202 Kg = 14,4 x 15,9 " / 405 mm shells or 4,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
Metacentric height 6,4 ft / 1,9 m
Roll period: 16,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,585
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,62 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Forecastle (10 %): 16,47 ft / 5,02 m
- Mid (70 %): 16,47 ft / 5,02 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16,47 ft / 5,02 m
- Stern: 16,47 ft / 5,02 m
- Average freeboard: 16,60 ft / 5,06 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,2 %
Waterplane Area: 39.241 Square feet or 3.646 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 990 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,83
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
There isn't a restriction on the L/B ratio, but too far below 6 will be frowned upon by any ship designer of repute.
I opted for the French 140mm/5.5" secundaries, but those can be exchanged for the 165mm/6.5" guns in exchange for armor.
She's also a tad bigger than the other desings, but with her 24 kts and a range of 7000@ 15 kts Nm it's a fair trade off.
QuoteLa Belle, Republique Orange Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
26.999 t light; 29.248 t standard; 31.628 t normal; 33.532 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 554,46 ft x 104,99 ft x 30,51 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 169,00 m x 32,00 m x 9,30 m
Armament:
8 - 16,00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.204,62lbs / 1.000,00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (2x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19.125 lbs / 8.675 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,0" / 330 mm 360,40 ft / 109,85 m 14,50 ft / 4,42 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,00" / 51 mm 360,40 ft / 109,85 m 29,04 ft / 8,85 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14,0" / 356 mm 12,0" / 305 mm 14,0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
3rd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
4th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3,75" / 95 mm, Conning tower: 15,00" / 381 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 64.078 shp / 47.802 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 7.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.285 tons
Complement:
1.185 - 1.541
Cost:
£5,711 million / $22,842 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.216 tons, 7,0%
Armour: 9.469 tons, 29,9%
- Belts: 3.046 tons, 9,6%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 774 tons, 2,4%
- Armament: 2.307 tons, 7,3%
- Armour Deck: 3.018 tons, 9,5%
- Conning Tower: 323 tons, 1,0%
Machinery: 2.387 tons, 7,5%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12.476 tons, 39,4%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.629 tons, 14,6%
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,4%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36.327 lbs / 16.478 Kg = 17,7 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 5,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 6,4 ft / 2,0 m
Roll period: 17,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,623
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,28 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
- Forecastle (18%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Mid (50%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarterdeck (17%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Stern: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 20,39 ft / 6,22 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,7%
Waterplane Area: 43.507 Square feet or 4.042 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 213 lbs/sq ft or 1.040 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,92
- Longitudinal: 2,19
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
250 tons FC
50 tons twin ERADe
25 tons Long range marconi
25 tons crew comfort messures
100 tons admiral quarters.
Oh I like this kinda stuff, ill post one later but I thought I should reserve my spot in advance.
I was working on one, but it kept posting the "Main-Guns limited to end-on fire" commet. How do you fix that without drastically reducing the freeboard.
Nobody, why the restriction to Lvl 2 slipsdocks? The OR is the next country to France with the big yards.
You easely can build the ship type 3 sized. And with yearly 43 Ktons of new Ship building capacity, you're also not restricted to budget ships.
In the OR tech tree, it's clear that 1912 engine tech is the best there is for the OR, so I adjusted that bit too.
I adjusted armament size from " to mm, having in mind the origins of the OR , and yours, Nobody.
( German If I ain't wrong)QuoteLa Beaux, Republique Orange Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
29.999 t light; 32.100 t standard; 35.233 t normal; 37.739 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
693,08 ft / 688,98 ft x 101,71 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
211,25 m / 210,00 m x 31,00 m x 9,00 m
Armament:
8 - 15,94" / 405 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.094,39lbs / 950,00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (6x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18.350 lbs / 8.324 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 135
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,0" / 356 mm 434,06 ft / 132,30 m 14,25 ft / 4,34 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 97% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,00" / 51 mm 434,06 ft / 132,30 m 27,79 ft / 8,47 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,0" / 381 mm 9,00" / 229 mm 15,0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
3rd: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 71.493 shp / 53.334 Kw = 25,00 kts
Range 7.500nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5.639 tons
Complement:
1.285 - 1.671
Cost:
£6,046 million / $24,185 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.234 tons, 6,3%
Armour: 10.842 tons, 30,8%
- Belts: 3.791 tons, 10,8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 893 tons, 2,5%
- Armament: 2.056 tons, 5,8%
- Armour Deck: 3.778 tons, 10,7%
- Conning Tower: 324 tons, 0,9%
Machinery: 2.851 tons, 8,1%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13.622 tons, 38,7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.234 tons, 14,9%
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,3%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42.259 lbs / 19.168 Kg = 20,8 x 15,9 " / 405 mm shells or 6,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
Metacentric height 6,6 ft / 2,0 m
Roll period: 16,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,596
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,77 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4,10 ft / 1,25 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,89 ft / 8,50 m
- Forecastle (20%): 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Mid (50%): 17,39 ft / 5,30 m
- Quarterdeck (17%): 17,39 ft / 5,30 m
- Stern: 17,39 ft / 5,30 m
- Average freeboard: 18,32 ft / 5,58 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132,2%
Waterplane Area: 51.058 Square feet or 4.743 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 976 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,97
- Longitudinal: 1,28
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Thanks for your designs so far it look promising.
Quote from: maddox on September 11, 2009, 06:16:13 PM
Nobody, why the restriction to Lvl 2 slipsdocks? The OR is the next country to France with the big yards.
You easely can build the ship type 3 sized. And with yearly 43 Ktons of new Ship building capacity, you're also not restricted to budget ships.
Well but Orange doesn't have any type 3 slip or dock, and I want to reserve the type 4 for something else ;D
QuoteIn the OR tech tree, it's clear that 1912 engine tech is the best there is for the OR, so I adjusted that bit too.
No, actually the 1913(?) Engine tech allowing 1916 engine year was successfully finished some time ago (see hear (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=3479.0), it says 1912 though). I just haven't updated the tech page yet.
QuoteI adjusted armament size from " to mm, having in mind the origins of the OR , and yours, Nobody.
There might be a change of policy in the future, but these guns were developed as 16", 6" and 5" and I see no reason change that just "out of the blue". Gun calibre is one of the few things I don't mind to see measured in inch, btw.
Korpen: well balanced, small. I like the brought armor belt and the interesting arrangement for the secondaries.
ledeper:
"Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces" <-- sorry disqualified, please try again ;). Also very narrow belt and wrong cruising speed (15 knots please).
maddox: 27kt is still smaller than the design I inherited from P3D which are ~28kt if I remember correctly.
Quote from: TexanCowboy on September 11, 2009, 04:12:46 PM
I was working on one, but it kept posting the "Main-Guns limited to end-on fire" commet. How do you fix that without drastically reducing the freeboard.
Interesting, I have never seen that message in any of my designs - which is not much though.
This better
QuoteLa Glorieuze, Republique Orange Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
27.003 t light; 29.171 t standard; 31.685 t normal; 33.696 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 554,46 ft x 98,43 ft x 32,81 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 169,00 m x 30,00 m x 10,00 m
Armament:
8 - 16,00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.048,00lbs / 928,96kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18.120 lbs / 8.219 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,0" / 356 mm 377,03 ft / 114,92 m 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,00" / 51 mm 377,03 ft / 114,92 m 31,18 ft / 9,50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,0" / 381 mm 10,0" / 254 mm 15,0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
3rd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
4th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15,00" / 381 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 63.116 shp / 47.084 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 7.500nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.526 tons
Complement:
1.186 - 1.543
Cost:
£5,776 million / $23,105 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.265 tons, 7,1%
Armour: 9.915 tons, 31,3%
- Belts: 3.249 tons, 10,3%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 870 tons, 2,7%
- Armament: 2.465 tons, 7,8%
- Armour Deck: 3.007 tons, 9,5%
- Conning Tower: 324 tons, 1,0%
Machinery: 2.352 tons, 7,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12.071 tons, 38,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.682 tons, 14,8%
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,3%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36.702 lbs / 16.648 Kg = 17,9 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 5,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
Roll period: 17,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,619
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28,87 ft / 8,80 m
- Forecastle (20%): 21,65 ft / 6,60 m
- Mid (50%): 21,65 ft / 6,60 m
- Quarterdeck (12%): 21,65 ft / 6,60 m
- Stern: 21,65 ft / 6,60 m
- Average freeboard: 22,23 ft / 6,78 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141,3%
Waterplane Area: 40.641 Square feet or 3.776 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1.015 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,90
- Longitudinal: 2,44
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
250 tons FC
50 tons twin Huelsmeyer setup
25 tons Long range marconi
75 tons reserve.
Quote from: TexanCowboy on September 11, 2009, 04:12:46 PM
I was working on one, but it kept posting the "Main-Guns limited to end-on fire" commet. How do you fix that without drastically reducing the freeboard.
Well it depends on how the design looks, but adjusting trim to a lower setting should work.
Just throwing something
useless out of my computer. :)
Project O, Orange Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
25,356 t light; 27,230 t standard; 29,813 t normal; 31,879 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
556.73 ft / 550.00 ft x 100.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
169.69 m / 167.64 m x 30.48 m x 9.45 m
Armament:
8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,116.44lbs / 960.00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 105.82lbs / 48.00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 105.82lbs / 48.00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 61.73lbs / 28.00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,820 lbs / 8,536 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 374.02 ft / 114.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.77" / 45 mm 374.02 ft / 114.00 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 9.45" / 240 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
4th: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
- Armour deck: 3.54" / 90 mm, Conning tower: 14.96" / 380 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 56,201 shp / 41,926 Kw = 23.50 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,649 tons
Complement:
1,133 - 1,474
Cost:
£5.641 million / $22.562 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,288 tons, 7.7%
Armour: 8,865 tons, 29.7%
- Belts: 2,979 tons, 10.0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 724 tons, 2.4%
- Armament: 2,185 tons, 7.3%
- Armour Deck: 2,667 tons, 8.9%
- Conning Tower: 310 tons, 1.0%
Machinery: 2,094 tons, 7.0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,509 tons, 38.6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,458 tons, 15.0%
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2.0%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
31,549 lbs / 14,310 Kg = 15.4 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.612
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forecastle (20%): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Mid (50%): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Stern: 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.80 ft / 5.43 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.3%
Waterplane Area: 40,679 Square feet or 3,779 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 210 lbs/sq ft or 1,024 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.95
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Design Bureau Hamburg:
Oranje, Orange Bb laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
23.812 t light; 25.618 t standard; 27.798 t normal; 29.543 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 554,27 ft x 98,43 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 168,94 m x 30,00 m x 9,00 m
Armament:
8 - 16,00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.048,00lbs / 928,96kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17.142 lbs / 7.775 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 130
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,0" / 356 mm 415,72 ft / 126,71 m 11,91 ft / 3,63 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 5,00" / 127 mm 415,72 ft / 126,71 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,00" / 25 mm 415,72 ft / 126,71 m 27,79 ft / 8,47 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14,0" / 356 mm 8,00" / 203 mm 14,0" / 356 mm
2nd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 53.408 shp / 39.843 Kw = 23,50 kts
Range 7.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.926 tons
Complement:
1.076 - 1.399
Cost:
£5,294 million / $21,178 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.143 tons, 7,7 %
Armour: 8.431 tons, 30,3 %
- Belts: 3.676 tons, 13,2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 427 tons, 1,5 %
- Armament: 1.828 tons, 6,6 %
- Armour Deck: 2.223 tons, 8,0 %
- Conning Tower: 277 tons, 1,0 %
Machinery: 1.990 tons, 7,2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.749 tons, 38,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.986 tons, 14,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1,8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29.921 lbs / 13.572 Kg = 14,6 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 4,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
Metacentric height 6,5 ft / 2,0 m
Roll period: 16,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,604
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Forecastle (10 %): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Mid (70 %): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Stern: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Average freeboard: 16,54 ft / 5,04 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,3 %
Waterplane Area: 40.049 Square feet or 3.721 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 202 lbs/sq ft or 987 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,76
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Another design for consideration...
Export Battleship Design, Erwhon Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
35,680 t light; 37,983 t standard; 41,213 t normal; 43,797 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
806.83 ft / 800.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
245.92 m / 243.84 m x 27.43 m x 8.23 m
Armament:
8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,048.00lbs / 928.96kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,505 lbs / 7,940 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.5" / 318 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
5th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
- Armour deck: 5.50" / 140 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 71,752 shp / 53,527 Kw = 24.50 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,814 tons
Complement:
1,446 - 1,880
Cost:
£6.293 million / $25.171 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,188 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 14,482 tons, 35.1 %
- Belts: 5,296 tons, 12.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2,835 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 6,093 tons, 14.8 %
- Conning Tower: 257 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,673 tons, 6.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,937 tons, 38.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,533 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
74,448 lbs / 33,769 Kg = 36.4 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 41 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.32
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.742
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.89 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.12 ft / 9.79 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.17 ft / 8.59 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.17 ft / 7.67 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 22.17 ft / 6.76 m
- Stern: 19.17 ft / 5.84 m
- Average freeboard: 25.34 ft / 7.72 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197.6 %
Waterplane Area: 59,885 Square feet or 5,563 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 187 lbs/sq ft or 915 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.22
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Offered to Orange. Being that Erwhon's capital ships are built abroad, it's not too surprising that our first export design isn't up to par with the other entries.
Serious Battlecruiser you have here elft177.
Walter, quite a lot of 2nd and 3rd armament, don't you think? Not that it's bad it just catch my eye.
I'm not going to comment on all suggestions btw, but they are all considered.
The French anti-Orange design made me think. In the end I decided to try out how much firepower and protection I could stuff into a size 2 hull at the expense of speed and range. It's nothing serious, just a design study, but here take a look:
Kampfzwerg, Orange mini Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
30.590 t light; 33.056 t standard; 34.563 t normal; 35.769 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 557,74 ft x 101,71 ft x 32,81 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 170,00 m x 31,00 m x 10,00 m
Armament:
12 - 16,00" / 406 mm guns (3x4 guns), 2.116,44lbs / 960,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1916 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 26.409 lbs / 11.979 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16,5" / 420 mm 367,45 ft / 112,00 m 14,11 ft / 4,30 m
Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 190,29 ft / 58,00 m 12,11 ft / 3,69 m
Upper: 1,18" / 30 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 101% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,36" / 60 mm 367,45 ft / 112,00 m 36,09 ft / 11,00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17,3" / 440 mm 9,84" / 250 mm 16,9" / 430 mm
2nd: 1,97" / 50 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
- Armour deck: 4,33" / 110 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 27.134 shp / 20.242 Kw = 19,00 kts
Range 4.000nm at 15,00 kts
10300 nm @ 10 kn
6845 nm @ 12 kn
2485 nm @ 18 kn
2140 nm @ full speed ? 112½ h or 5½ days
Bunker at max displacement = 2.713 tons
Complement:
1.266 - 1.647
Cost:
£6,380 million / $25,520 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3.198 tons, 9,3%
Armour: 12.292 tons, 35,6%
- Belts: 4.084 tons, 11,8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1.159 tons, 3,4%
- Armament: 3.567 tons, 10,3%
- Armour Deck: 3.482 tons, 10,1%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 1.011 tons, 2,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13.639 tons, 39,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.973 tons, 11,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,3%
250 t FC
50 t twin "Radar"
25 t long-range-radio
125 t for future use
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33.987 lbs / 15.416 Kg = 16,6 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 5,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,02
Metacentric height 5,3 ft / 1,6 m
Roll period: 18,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,93
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,650
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Mid (50%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Stern: 17,06 ft / 5,20 m
- Average freeboard: 16,72 ft / 5,10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107,3%
Waterplane Area: 43.455 Square feet or 4.037 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 235 lbs/sq ft or 1.147 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,78
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Well armored, well armed.
But, stability is low, for battleships we aim for 1.10, with some leeway. seakeeping is good, maybe you can lower the freeboard a bit, gaining some stability and weight for secundaries. (also, you asked for 6 to 7" secundaries, but this design uses 5")
Also, a suggestion, get a few of the secundaries superfiring, will improve firearcs a lot.
QuoteWalter, quite a lot of 2nd and 3rd armament, don't you think? Not that it's bad it just catch my eye.
2nd and 3rd? Quite a lot? Actually I don't think 2x2x2 is a lot of guns so that's where the smaller 4th armament comes in. :)
QuoteWell armored, well armed.
But, stability is low, for battleships we aim for 1.10, with some leeway. seakeeping is good, maybe you can lower the freeboard a bit, gaining some stability and weight for secundaries. (also, you asked for 6 to 7" secundaries, but this design uses 5")
Also, a suggestion, get a few of the secundaries superfiring, will improve firearcs a lot.
Anything above 1.05 I consider good enough (though the more the better). Adjusting trim to gain stability is also an option since lowering freeboard would most likely result in the loss of the "good seaboat" rating. The secondaries asked for were 6" or 5" and I agree with having some of them superfiring.
By lowering the freeboard with on avarage with 20-30 cm it's perfectly possible to retain the good seakeeping, and gain some stability too
, as well more weight for armor, and less hull to protect.
It's all a balancing act, but the seakeeping is important for the OR, as these ships sail the worst waters on earth, the roaring 40's.
New Switzerland designed Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
22,255 t light; 24,073 t standard; 26,136 t normal; 27,787 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
167.64 m / 167.64 m x 27.43 m x 10.06 m
Armament:
8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,115.00lbs / 959.35kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19,052 lbs / 8,642 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 330.00 ft / 100.58 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 16.0" / 406 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 45,797 shp / 34,164 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,714 tons
Complement:
1,027 - 1,336
Cost:
£4.863 million / $19.453 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,327 tons, 8.9 %
Armour: 7,457 tons, 28.5 %
- Belts: 3,306 tons, 12.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2,083 tons, 8.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,935 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,706 tons, 6.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,365 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,881 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,520 lbs / 10,668 Kg = 11.5 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.560
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 15.80 ft / 4.82 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.0 %
Waterplane Area: 34,871 Square feet or 3,240 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1,023 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.03
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
QuoteBy lowering the freeboard with on avarage with 20-30 cm it's perfectly possible to retain the good seakeeping, and gain some stability too
, as well more weight for armor, and less hull to protect.
I'd have to check it with SS, but I doubt that seaboat quality will remain above 1.20 with a 20cm drop and I seriously doubt it will it get stability to the level you are thinking of. :)
It's a way to get the last bits out of a hull, never said it was holy.
Just tried it out by lowering the freeboard by 20 cm.
Stability... 1.02
Seaboat quality... 1.20... rounded up (so no longer good seaboat rating).
Gained... 0.01 hull strength.
I still say that adjusting trim is better. :)
Maddox's Way Of Gaining Stability, Orange BB laid down 1916
Displacement:
30,590 t light; 33,056 t standard; 34,563 t normal; 35,769 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 101.71 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
170.00 m / 170.00 m x 31.00 m x 10.00 m
Armament:
12 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (3x4 guns), 2,116.44lbs / 960.00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1916 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.00" / 0.0 mm guns (1x12 guns), 0.00lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mount
on side
Weight of broadside 26,409 lbs / 11,979 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.5" / 420 mm 367.45 ft / 112.00 m 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 190.29 ft / 58.00 m 12.11 ft / 3.69 m
Upper: 1.18" / 30 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 101% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.36" / 60 mm 367.45 ft / 112.00 m 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.3" / 440 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 16.9" / 430 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Armour deck: 4.33" / 110 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 27,134 shp / 20,242 Kw = 19.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,713 tons
Complement:
1,266 - 1,647
Cost:
£6.380 million / $25.520 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,198 tons, 9.3%
Armour: 12,206 tons, 35.3%
- Belts: 4,084 tons, 11.8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,159 tons, 3.4%
- Armament: 3,481 tons, 10.1%
- Armour Deck: 3,482 tons, 10.1%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0%
Machinery: 1,011 tons, 2.9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,724 tons, 39.7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,973 tons, 11.5%
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.3%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,681 lbs / 15,278 Kg = 16.4 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 18.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.88
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Forecastle (20%): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Mid (50%): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.06 ft / 4.90 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.0%
Waterplane Area: 43,455 Square feet or 4,037 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 238 lbs/sq ft or 1,160 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.76
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Walter's Way Of Gaining Stability, Orange BB laid down 1916
Displacement:
30,590 t light; 33,056 t standard; 34,563 t normal; 35,769 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 101.71 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
170.00 m / 170.00 m x 31.00 m x 10.00 m
Armament:
12 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (3x4 guns), 2,116.44lbs / 960.00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1916 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.00" / 0.0 mm guns (1x12 guns), 0.00lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mount
on side
Weight of broadside 26,409 lbs / 11,979 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.5" / 420 mm 367.45 ft / 112.00 m 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 190.29 ft / 58.00 m 12.11 ft / 3.69 m
Upper: 1.18" / 30 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 101% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.36" / 60 mm 367.45 ft / 112.00 m 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.3" / 440 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 16.9" / 430 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Armour deck: 4.33" / 110 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 27,134 shp / 20,242 Kw = 19.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,713 tons
Complement:
1,266 - 1,647
Cost:
£6.380 million / $25.520 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,198 tons, 9.3%
Armour: 12,292 tons, 35.6%
- Belts: 4,084 tons, 11.8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,159 tons, 3.4%
- Armament: 3,567 tons, 10.3%
- Armour Deck: 3,482 tons, 10.1%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0%
Machinery: 1,011 tons, 2.9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,639 tons, 39.5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,973 tons, 11.5%
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.3%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,102 lbs / 15,922 Kg = 17.1 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50%): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Average freeboard: 16.72 ft / 5.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.3%
Waterplane Area: 43,455 Square feet or 4,037 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 235 lbs/sq ft or 1,147 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Walter, your way is costing gun platform steadyness. :)
Getting better stability on this ship has a price. And besides, I only think gun platform steadiness is worth it if you can get it to 70% or beyond (naturally without compromising the ship's stability).
Played with your suggestions a bit, but I suppose the ship is just too small to hold 3 quads. The only reason for the good seeboat rating was the ridiculous low speed anyway.
I wondered how you managed to make the ship that small Desertfox, but without torpedo bulkhead and only 3 inches of deck its not that surprising.
Walter I obviously meant all 6" guns are 2nd and all 5" guns are 3rd battery ^^
Now lets take a look at this. Any suggestions how to increase seakeeping? I think the freeboard is already pretty high (same as Bismarck's). You think bow and citadel splinter protection will do me any good?
mini B4, Orange Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
27.045 t light; 29.209 t standard; 31.445 t normal; 33.233 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 557,74 ft x 101,71 ft x 31,50 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 170,00 m x 31,00 m x 9,60 m
Armament:
8 - 16,00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.116,44lbs / 960,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 105,82lbs / 48,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 105,82lbs / 48,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1916 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18.213 lbs / 8.261 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,8" / 350 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 13,78 ft / 4,20 m
10° slooped
Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
Upper: 1,18" / 30 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 8,53 ft / 2,60 m
Main Belt covers 109% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,97" / 50 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 36,09 ft / 11,00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,0" / 380 mm 8,66" / 220 mm 14,2" / 360 mm
2nd: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
3rd: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
- Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 14,96" / 380 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 58.877 shp / 43.922 Kw = 23,60 kts
Range 6.620nm at 15,00 kts
16850 @ 10 kn
11250 @ 12 kn
6620 @ 15 kn
4120 @ 18 kn
2690 @ 21 kn
1940 @ full speed ? 82 h ? 3½ d
Bunker at max displacement = 4.024 tons
Complement:
1.179 - 1.534
Cost:
£5,091 million / $20,365 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.211 tons, 7,0%
Armour: 10.478 tons, 33,3%
- Belts: 3.542 tons, 11,3%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1.035 tons, 3,3%
- Armament: 2.513 tons, 8,0%
- Armour Deck: 3.067 tons, 9,8%
- Conning Tower: 321 tons, 1,0%
Machinery: 2.194 tons, 7,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11.711 tons, 37,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.400 tons, 14,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,4%
250 t FC
25 t Radio
50 t "Radar"
125 unassigned
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34.932 lbs / 15.845 Kg = 17,1 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 5,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
Metacentric height 6,6 ft / 2,0 m
Roll period: 16,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,616
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (15%): 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
- Mid (50%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Quarterdeck (10%): 17,06 ft / 5,20 m
- Stern: 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Average freeboard: 17,61 ft / 5,37 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,9%
Waterplane Area: 42.112 Square feet or 3.912 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1.012 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,87
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
There are a few things that influence seakeeping.
Freeboard as most influential
Draught
Block coefficient.
QuoteI wondered how you managed to make the ship that small Desertfox, but without torpedo bulkhead and only 3 inches of deck its not that surprising.
It's a Swiss design so with torpedoes you can turn that design into Swiss cheese. :)
QuoteWalter I obviously meant all 6" guns are 2nd and all 5" guns are 3rd battery ^^
Not according to Spring Sharp. *runs away* :D
QuoteAny suggestions how to increase seakeeping?
Pretty much that what Maddox said. Normally you can also mess around with the length (increase) and beam (decrease), but IIRC that only works when your speed is greater than the "'Natural speed' for length".
Trying to combine a 1.2 seaboat rating with 1.1 stability, I ended up rather with a rather big ship although I already reduced ammunition supply to 120 shells per gun and sacrificed a tiny bit of speed.
I wanted to use Korpens design as a base (good seaboat and small) but it didn't really help.
Any Errors in this one? Ideas how to improve it or to make it smaller? Reducing range doesn't help much (10% less range saves only 300 tons). I would like to keep the thick armor though.
mini B5, Orange Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
27.802 t light; 29.676 t standard; 31.976 t normal; 33.815 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 557,74 ft x 100,07 ft x 31,33 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 170,00 m x 30,50 m x 9,55 m
Armament:
8 - 16,00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.116,44lbs / 960,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 105,82lbs / 48,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 105,82lbs / 48,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
6 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,23lbs / 6,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18.281 lbs / 8.292 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,8" / 350 mm 354,33 ft / 108,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 98% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,97" / 50 mm 354,33 ft / 108,00 m 34,45 ft / 10,50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,0" / 380 mm 8,66" / 220 mm 14,2" / 360 mm
2nd: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
3rd: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
- Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 14,96" / 380 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 58.925 shp / 43.958 Kw = 23,50 kts
Range 6.720nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.140 tons
Complement:
1.195 - 1.554
Cost:
£5,147 million / $20,588 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.220 tons, 6,9%
Armour: 10.691 tons, 33,4%
- Belts: 3.594 tons, 11,2%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 889 tons, 2,8%
- Armament: 2.797 tons, 8,7%
- Armour Deck: 3.086 tons, 9,6%
- Conning Tower: 325 tons, 1,0%
Machinery: 2.195 tons, 6,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12.244 tons, 38,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.174 tons, 13,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 452 tons, 1,4%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38.547 lbs / 17.485 Kg = 18,8 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 6,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
Roll period: 17,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,73
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,640
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Mid (60%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Stern: 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Average freeboard: 21,25 ft / 6,48 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96,1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138,4%
Waterplane Area: 42.363 Square feet or 3.936 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1.018 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,91
- Longitudinal: 2,20
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
QuoteI wondered how you managed to make the ship that small Desertfox, but without torpedo bulkhead and only 3 inches of deck its not that surprising.
Protection is overrated...
Besides Swiss ships are known to handle underwater damage really well.
Constitution has taken, I think 5 torpedoes over her life, and
Alliance fought (and won) a battle while returning home due to mine damage. That being said, a 16" belt is overkill, so by reducing that belt armor, deck armor can be improved and maybe a thin (thick ones are actually detrimental) torpedo bulkhead added. What does OR think are adequate guidelines as far as armor goes?
QuoteProtection is overrated...
I look forward to the day this gets tested.
A sixteen-inch thick belt is, I have been advised by the mods, not technologically practicable at this time in the game. A sixteen-
foot deep one would line up very nicely to cover two complete decks, which I consider to be both perfectly reasonable and, in fact, rather wise.
The listed thicknesses of at least Maori torpedo defense systems are aggregate, not unitary - the system designed for Cross Mirage and her successors calls for three seperate 1" bulkheads, each behind its own system of air and fluid voids - and I confidently expect them to be considerably more than
just three times as effective as a single 1" bulkhead.
Even now, making a case hardened plate with 16" thickness and controlled hardness is more than difficult.
Quote from: maddox on September 15, 2009, 01:14:36 AM
Even now, making a case hardened plate with 16" thickness and controlled hardness is more than difficult.
I don't think that this type of armor is still produced nowadays.
Quote from: Valles on September 15, 2009, 01:06:17 AM
A sixteen-inch thick belt is, I have been advised by the mods, not technologically practicable at this time in the game. A sixteen-foot deep one would line up very nicely to cover two complete decks, which I consider to be both perfectly reasonable and, in fact, rather wise.
Really? I once read that the skill to produce thick face-hard armor was lost (at least in the USA) in the 1920s when no such plates were produced.
Also Pennsylvania-class (1913) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_class_battleship) had 18 inches of turret armor and the 1890 Weißenburg and Kurfürst Friedrich Wilhelm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_class_battleship) had a 16 inch face hardened belt.
Obviously I don't want my armor to be rated down because it's too thick, but a 350/14" belt was normal, 380 mm/15" as belt and more for smaller areas like turrets/barbettes shouldn't be a problem.
Quote from: Desertfox on September 14, 2009, 02:37:24 PM
That being said, a 16" belt is overkill, so by reducing that belt armor, deck armor can be improved and maybe a thin (thick ones are actually detrimental) torpedo bulkhead added. What does OR think are adequate guidelines as far as armor goes?
Well the ship is too slow to run away so its armor has to be good. Also all-or-noting armor concept means there is no slooped deck behind the belt (only the torpedo bulkhead).
I would like to have a 4 to 5 m wide belt (depending on freeboard and speed) that is at least 350 mm/14" thick preferable more (I don't think your 16" are overkill).
Most designs hat 90+ mm of deck so far, does someone know whether this is enough to resist a 15" shell (eg French) at 25 km? If not, how much would be needed?
I would expect a torpedo bulkhead between 40 and 80 mm thick. 50 mm/2" should be sufficient though.
And of course I'm dreaming, there is now way to fit all that armor in a 23 knot hull with less than 30 kt ;) which is why I'm interested how others balance their designs.
EDIT
I just made some calculations against it's own guns (16"/40). A
16" belt would be save above 15 km
15" belt above 17 km
14" belt above 20 km
Any deck is save below 12 km because of flat trajectory and even a 4" deck would only be save below 16 km
In other word the immunity zone is zero which means I either made made a few mistakes, the gun is damn good or the armor really poor.
Quote from: Nobody on September 15, 2009, 04:13:41 AM
Quote from: maddox on September 15, 2009, 01:14:36 AM
Even now, making a case hardened plate with 16" thickness and controlled hardness is more than difficult.
I don't think that this type of armor is still produced nowadays.
Not in armor version, but such castings are still made for petrochemical reactors that work on very high pressure and temperatures.
Also, trying to forge a 1.2m/4ft diameter axle for a 150 000 Kw steam turbine with the right homogenious metal structure is not easy, but it gets done.
The technology still is available, and with all modern tricks, it can be done, but it will be very expensive, and will take even more time to produce than historical armor plates- due more exacting messuring methodes and higher tolerances.
Funny actualy, it's a discusion I had with my uncle (the smart one of the family). His pov was, everything that could be done, can be done better now, even if it's not done for 80 years.
It's pretty simple, making enough 16" thick, surface hardened steel armorplates for a 1917 BB, can be done, but it will take a lot of $$$$ and time, more than our rules allow for.
I'm not one for more rules, but we could look at history, and with the thickest plates made for the super BB Yamato, and the tests done on them, we can conclude that quality control was problematic for improved KC armor plates over a certain thickness. Maybe a restiction on Improved KC armor of 15"?
I considered pointing the greater thicknesses often chosen for turret faces out when I had my own discussion of the issue, but decided it wasn't worth the trouble and argument. Presumably what's doable for four or five 'once off' castings isn't as practical for the dozens of separate plates making up the main belt.
One of my earlier designs, from Cross Mirage's early incarnation as a graduated-armor ship, called for a 425mm belt - the mods were horrified when I PMed it to them, and handed back a hard-and-fast "No belt thicker than 381mm" ruling.
Irksome, but livable.
If you look at the USN standard BB's their main belt was the thickness it was because USA Armor industry couldn't roll armor any thicker at the time.
Some comments.
My designs on the 8x16" BB theme got to ~27k tons. 4" armor deck and such. Bit scary, SS2 would allow those 16"s be L50 long, the firepower of an Iowa on half the tonnage.
About FH armor.
Richie and Jane Babe had 430mm faceplates and 405mm barbettes.
The BB49 SoDak had 16-18" FH armor plates.
The US posttreaty BBs had upto 18" barbettes which were AFAIK face hardened, class B being used only on turret faceplate and CT. Montana would have had barbettes upto 21.3". Guess some of it already done before cancellation.
Besides the Yamatos where the Japanese apparently had not that much difficulty (hell, they DID made it) manufacturing extreme thick FH armor in great quantities.
The Soviets apparently managed to get up to 425mm thickness.
17-18" turrets for the G/N3 classes.
That's five nations. Apparently who wanted to, could make FH plates of essentially arbitrary thickness. Just figure out how to make very thick plates, face hardening is not that much dependent on plate thickness itself, being a surface process per definitionem.
Of course it might require new plants built. Say nations having at least 1BP (or whatever, even 0.5) finished in the previous 2 years, that'd cope with the new specifications.
Just check when the last investments were made :P. If long ago, tough luck, stick with 15" armor or less. Those old plants just cannot keep up with the specifications that people at the different Bureaus dream up, without any foundation in reality.
The Heavy Face Hardened plates different from just normal steal could be made in thicker runs then shown. The problem was one of Quality Control and Cost. To make a 16" FH Plate for a Battle Ship one would have to build 4 or 5 plates for each plate accepted by the Ship Builders. All the others would have taken all the time and effort to create and simply not meet standards or pass stress tests.
I understand the Japanese had a huge problem with this and the USN cancled the Montanas because they were having a great difficulty creating enought Armor Plate for the Iowa's, and Cruisers currently being built. Of Course when you have 8 or 9 Battle Ships under construction at the Same Time well that could be a problem.
So, what, 75% wastage on BP spent on thicker plates?
I could live with that.
75% of time lost probably on armor rolling most likely , the metal is perfect scrap tough.
For now I see no Problem with belt limited to 15"/381 mm if a bit more is allowed for limited areas (e.g. 16" for barbettes and 17 or 18 inch for turret faces and conning towers). You should add this to the rules then plus a tech which allows greater (unlimited?) thicknesses.
Anyway I had to decide (because I have to catch up and should finish my 1916 report). It's not exactly small but I came to the conclusion that being a little lager is worth it. So unless someone finds something that is wrong or bends the rules this is what Orange is building:
mini B7, Orange Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
28.000 t light; 30.200 t standard; 32.814 t normal; 34.905 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 557,74 ft x 100,07 ft x 32,15 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 170,00 m x 30,50 m x 9,80 m
Armament:
8 - 16,00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.116,44lbs / 960,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 105,82lbs / 48,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 105,82lbs / 48,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
6 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,23lbs / 6,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0,40" / 10,2 mm guns in single mounts, 0,03lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1916 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 18.281 lbs / 8.292 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,8" / 350 mm 346,46 ft / 105,60 m 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
10° slooped
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 96% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,97" / 50 mm 346,46 ft / 105,60 m 34,45 ft / 10,50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,7" / 400 mm 8,66" / 220 mm 15,0" / 380 mm
2nd: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
3rd: 5,91" / 150 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
- Armour deck: 4,13" / 105 mm, Conning tower: 14,96" / 380 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 59.803 shp / 44.613 Kw = 23,50 kts
Range 7.590nm at 15,00 kts
19400 @ 10 kn
12900 @ 12 kn
7590 @ 15 kn
4730 @ 18 kn
3070 @ 21 kn
2690 @ 22 kn
2355 @ 23 kn
2255 @ full speed ~96 h ~nearly four days
Bunker at max displacement = 4.705 tons
Complement:
1.218 - 1.584
Cost:
£5,166 million / $20,663 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.220 tons, 6,8%
Armour: 10.743 tons, 32,7%
- Belts: 3.394 tons, 10,3%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 869 tons, 2,6%
- Armament: 2.910 tons, 8,9%
- Armour Deck: 3.240 tons, 9,9%
- Conning Tower: 330 tons, 1,0%
Machinery: 2.228 tons, 6,8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12.299 tons, 37,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.813 tons, 14,7%
Miscellaneous weights: 510 tons, 1,6%
250 t FC
25 t Radio
50 t twin "Radar"
50 t crew comfort
135 t Admiral staff quarters and command facilities
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39.467 lbs / 17.902 Kg = 19,3 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 6,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
Roll period: 17,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,73
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,640
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forecastle (22%): 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Mid (60%): 20,01 ft / 6,10 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 20,01 ft / 6,10 m
- Stern: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Average freeboard: 21,52 ft / 6,56 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,2%
Waterplane Area: 42.364 Square feet or 3.936 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1.015 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,91
- Longitudinal: 2,25
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Is the misc weight distribution ok?
QuoteMain belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
*grrr* when did that happen? :-[
Problem solved, thanks. It was just 8 cm though, luckily elongating them was well within design reserve 8)
Anything else? What about the misc (esp. the last two points on that list)?
Both items are strictly designer's choice. 135 tons is a lot more than the CSA allocates to command facilities, but fits with some other nations, I expect. Generally, many of us use a figure of 400t total for misc weight for a capital ship, give or take. This would include 250t for FC, 25t for a long range wireless set, and 175t for "other stuff".
IIRC the Jap thick plate was a laminate, not a single sheet. Thick, but weaker. Also, you could try "French" layout for the MB turrets. Would shorten your citadel and probably save weight, however it will make her less steady/stable. OTOH, the BB design that P3D finished last was 29.5k, ~29kts, 13" belt, and had 3x3x13.5" guns. It's in here (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1178.msg36216#msg36216)
here is my attempt hopefuly i am not to late? but here it is any way
Clementine, orange bb[mini] laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
26,925 t light; 28,865 t standard; 30,993 t normal; 32,696 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 98.43 ft x 31.17 ft (normal load)
170.00 m / 170.00 m x 30.00 m x 9.50 m
Armament:
8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,116.44lbs / 960.00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 107.15lbs / 48.60kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 3.00" / 76.3 mm guns in single mounts, 13.55lbs / 6.15kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,701 lbs / 8,482 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 7.87" / 200 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 14.96" / 380 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 62,576 shp / 46,682 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,831 tons
Complement:
1,167 - 1,518
Cost:
£5.772 million / $23.090 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,269 tons, 7.3 %
Armour: 10,764 tons, 34.7 %
- Belts: 5,009 tons, 16.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 894 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 1,525 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 3,018 tons, 9.7 %
- Conning Tower: 318 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,331 tons, 7.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,111 tons, 35.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,068 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,053 lbs / 14,539 Kg = 15.7 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.634
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m before break)
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 17.88 ft / 5.45 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.0 %
Waterplane Area: 41,439 Square feet or 3,850 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 966 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.88
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons
250t fire con
25t radio
50t 2x radar
50t cinc
75t to be used
I don't think Quad 16s give much actual space for Torp Protn system abreast the Main turrets with 98' beam - how about broader beam and shallower draught?
here is version 2 there are some other changes as well those the the beam and draught
Clementine v2, orange bb[mini] laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
28,430 t light; 30,354 t standard; 32,608 t normal; 34,411 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 114.83 ft x 27.89 ft (normal load)
170.00 m / 170.00 m x 35.00 m x 8.50 m
Armament:
8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,116.44lbs / 960.00kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 107.15lbs / 48.60kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 107.15lbs / 48.60kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.00" / 76.3 mm guns (4x2 guns), 13.55lbs / 6.15kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 18,755 lbs / 8,507 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 14.96" / 380 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 56,545 shp / 42,183 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,058 tons
Complement:
1,213 - 1,577
Cost:
£5.821 million / $23.286 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,276 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 10,560 tons, 32.4 %
- Belts: 4,278 tons, 13.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 800 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 1,616 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 3,537 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Tower: 329 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,107 tons, 6.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,037 tons, 40.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,178 tons, 12.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.4 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38,900 lbs / 17,645 Kg = 19.0 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.639
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m before break)
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 17.88 ft / 5.45 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.1 %
Waterplane Area: 48,569 Square feet or 4,512 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 215 lbs/sq ft or 1,049 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.91
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons
250t fire con
25t radio
50t 2x radar
50t cinc
75t to be used