DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
665 t light; 693 t standard; 750 t normal; 795 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
328,66 ft / 328,08 ft x 26,25 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
100,17 m / 100,00 m x 8,00 m x 3,00 m
Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11 201 shp / 8 356 Kw = 28,00 kts
Range 1 300nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 102 tons
Complement:
71 - 93
Cost:
£0,140 million / $0,560 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 2,4%
Machinery: 339 tons, 45,2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 258 tons, 34,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 85 tons, 11,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 6,7%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
265 lbs / 120 Kg = 7,5 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 11,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,310
Length to Beam Ratio: 12,50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Forecastle (25%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Mid (50%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25%): 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Stern: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Average freeboard: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171,4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103,7%
Waterplane Area: 5 410 Square feet or 503 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 107 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,43
- Longitudinal: 2,30
- Overall: 0,51
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
25 t - Mines
25t - Radio set
You can bring her up to 750 tonnes light, as we use light in thresholds.
You should make the Cross-sectional strength 0,5
Apart from that, a typcal, overloaded destroyed with not enough deckspace for all those guns and torpedo tubes :) - don't worry too much about this comment, as I whine in this manner about 95% of destroyer designs posted here :D
Borys
Version 2
DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
755 t light; 785 t standard; 841 t normal; 886 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
328,66 ft / 328,08 ft x 26,57 ft x 10,24 ft (normal load)
100,17 m / 100,00 m x 8,10 m x 3,12 m
Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12 169 shp / 9 078 Kw = 28,00 kts
Range 1 200nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 101 tons
Complement:
77 - 101
Cost:
£0,156 million / $0,624 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 2,1%
Machinery: 386 tons, 45,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 302 tons, 35,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 86 tons, 10,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 5,9%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
313 lbs / 142 Kg = 8,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 11,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,330
Length to Beam Ratio: 12,35 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Forecastle (25%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Mid (50%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25%): 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Stern: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Average freeboard: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95,3%
Waterplane Area: 5 338 Square feet or 496 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 124 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 2,43
- Overall: 0,58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
25 t - Mines
25t - Radio set
Almost rules-observant. Try to lose those 5 tonnes :)
Borys
Version 3
DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
749 t light; 779 t standard; 835 t normal; 880 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
328,66 ft / 328,08 ft x 26,57 ft x 10,24 ft (normal load)
100,17 m / 100,00 m x 8,10 m x 3,12 m
Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12 097 shp / 9 024 Kw = 28,00 kts
Range 1 200nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 101 tons
Complement:
76 - 100
Cost:
£0,155 million / $0,620 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 2,1%
Machinery: 384 tons, 46,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 303 tons, 36,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 86 tons, 10,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 5,4%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
316 lbs / 143 Kg = 8,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 11,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,327
Length to Beam Ratio: 12,35 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Forecastle (25%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Mid (50%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25%): 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Stern: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Average freeboard: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96,8%
Waterplane Area: 5 349 Square feet or 497 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 124 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 2,45
- Overall: 0,58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
20 t - Mines
25t - Radio set
Ahoj!
Excellent N-verse destroyer.
Borys
Thanks :)
Ahoj!
Sorry - I just noticed.
I believe we might have to set aside misc weight for torpedos.
Borys
I think that 20 tonns is pretty enough for another 8 torpedo shots. Then 20 t for mines is 8 tonnes for reserve torpedoes and 12 tonns for 12 horn mines.
QuoteBlock coefficient: 0,327
I think the minimum Block Coefficient is 0.38?
Version 4
DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
750 t light; 780 t standard; 836 t normal; 880 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
298,47 ft / 297,90 ft x 26,25 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
90,97 m / 90,80 m x 8,00 m x 3,00 m
Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13 076 shp / 9 755 Kw = 28,00 kts
Range 1 200nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 99 tons
Complement:
77 - 101
Cost:
£0,157 million / $0,629 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 2,1%
Machinery: 393 tons, 47,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 295 tons, 35,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 85 tons, 10,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 5,4%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
302 lbs / 137 Kg = 8,6 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 11,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,78
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,380
Length to Beam Ratio: 11,35 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17,26 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Forecastle (25%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Mid (50%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25%): 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Stern: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Average freeboard: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173,9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77,1%
Waterplane Area: 4 767 Square feet or 443 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 132 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,53
- Longitudinal: 2,87
- Overall: 0,63
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
20 t - Mines and Torpedoes
25t - Radio set
yep. Now we're getting somewhere :)
One suggestion I have is to lower the freeboard quite a bit. How much is a matter for debate around here. Some (including Korpen and myself) consider a seaboat rating at top speed of less than 1.0 ok for a DD. Others prefer a bit more.
For raised forecastle designs, I generally shoot for two decks forward above the waterline, and one aft, or 16 feet before the fore break, and 8 after (ie ~ 4.8 meters forward, 2.4 aft, for you fancy metric people). So you've got quite similar deck heights here. What you can do to save some weight is move the mid break forward to around 30ish%. I'd put the saved weight straight into machinery and bunkerage.
Which brings me to the only real criticism: 1200 nm at 14 knots is pretty short legged.
I agree with Guinness,
increase range & decrease freeboard
;)
Have 2-2.5m freeboard aft, with an additional 2.5m step (one deck height) to the forecastle.
1200 nm for Persian Gulf quite enougth, isnt' it?
Keep the bunkerage, and increse cruise speed to top speed, diminishing the range. Don't be surprised that you get a harbor DD.
Other thing. In this posting (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2726.0) you find a calculator.
Run the numbers trough and get the trial speed of your DD.
Coincidently, a very usefull posting concerning ins and outs of Shipbuilding in the Nverse.
IMO 1200nm is enough, for a boat this size.
Borys
Quote from: Borys on April 11, 2009, 01:04:51 AM
IMO 1200nm is enough, for a boat this size.
Borys
You mean, one-third the range of historical classes should be considered enough? I don't think so.
It'd be fine for a Coastal destroyer. Not so much for a fleet destroyer.
Without a lot of logistical support anyway.
Quote from: hooper82 on April 11, 2009, 04:25:30 AM
It'd be fine for a Coastal destroyer. Not so much for a fleet destroyer.
Without a lot of logistical support anyway.
The problem with the short range is that it does not allow the destroyer to conduct any form of patrols. It has a range of only 180nm at top speed, or a bit over 6h. In any form of engagement one can expect a need for at lest 3h at maximum power, most likely more. The low range means that the ship do not have any ability to stay at a sea-station for more then a few hours under the best of conditions, not at all under most.
If you increase range by 100% you get a ship that can actually assist in finding an enemy, and not only in a sortie against a target other ships have identified.
And yes, her sea keeping is hugely excessive.
Version 5. Hope, final ;D
DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916
Displacement:
750 t light; 780 t standard; 860 t normal; 924 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
303,01 ft / 302,46 ft x 26,57 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
92,36 m / 92,19 m x 8,10 m x 3,00 m
Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 16 624 shp / 12 402 Kw = 29,60 kts
Range 2 400nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 144 tons
Complement:
79 - 103
Cost:
£0,161 million / $0,642 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 2,1%
Machinery: 408 tons, 47,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 279 tons, 32,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 110 tons, 12,8%
Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 5,2%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
270 lbs / 122 Kg = 7,6 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 12,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,41
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,380
Length to Beam Ratio: 11,38 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17,39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
- Forecastle (20%): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
- Mid (50%): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m (9,19 ft / 2,80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25%): 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
- Stern: 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
- Average freeboard: 12,47 ft / 3,80 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77,2%
Waterplane Area: 4 902 Square feet or 455 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 129 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,51
- Longitudinal: 2,20
- Overall: 0,59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
20 t - Mines
25t - Radio set
Quote from: helgi on April 12, 2009, 03:24:06 AM
Version 5. Hope, final ;D
DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916
The other designs have engine year 1909, should this design have 1909 as well?
Quote
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 16 624 shp / 12 402 Kw = 29,60 kts
Range 2 400nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 144 tons
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
- Forecastle (20%): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
- Mid (50%): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m (9,19 ft / 2,80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25%): 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
- Stern: 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
- Average freeboard: 12,47 ft / 3,80 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Looks decent so far, but if You put midbreak at 35% and use the weight for more speed, what would she look like?
QuoteHull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,51
- Longitudinal: 2,20
- Overall: 0,59
You got some surplus strength in the hull.
Thinking of conventional destroyers, they have thier TTs on the centerline, 1-2 sets. You've got twin TTs, which means you need 4 sets. At 8.1m beam she's very narrow, I don't think you have them on the sides like a cruiser, which means you have 4 sets on centerline? That is hard to envision on a small destroyer.
Calculating.
Length of forcastle 18.43 m
Length of a 105 L40 gun 4.5m 1 meter separation between the guns =10 meter
Minimalistic bridge/deckhouse/Forward Funnel 4 meter
Midships funnel 2 meter
Length of an "avarage" 18" torpedo 4.5 meter +1 meter *4 = 24 meter.
Aft funnel 2 meter
aft guns, 10 meter
Quarter deck 23.09m
Total
91.52 meter. It should fit.
Orange has presented me a 1916 engine tech :)
Takes a while to learn to use that technology.
That means you'll have buy foreign engines, or wait untill the tech is digested.