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Main Archive => Navalism 3 Armed Forces => Armed Forces => New Ship Designs => Topic started by: Jefgte on April 27, 2008, 04:42:43 PM

Title: Raiders for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on April 27, 2008, 04:42:43 PM
Testing a raider for Peru

Job:
- Intercept commerce of enemy
- Harbours & coast night bombardement
- Mines at strategic point
- ...



4800T raider, Peru Cruiser raider laid down 1909 (Engine 1910)

Displacement:
   4 800 t light; 4 989 t standard; 5 883 t normal; 6 598 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   498.69 ft / 498.69 ft x 52.49 ft x 17.33 ft (normal load)
   152.00 m / 152.00 m x 16.00 m  x 5.28 m

Armament:
      4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1 214 lbs / 551 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   314.96 ft / 96.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   114.83 ft / 35.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     68.90 ft / 21.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   2nd:   1.18" / 30 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 32 640 shp / 24 349 Kw = 27.02 kts
   Range 14 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 609 tons
               
Complement:
   335 - 436

Cost:
   £0.484 million / $1.937 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 152 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 983 tons, 16.7 %
      - Belts: 521 tons, 8.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 135 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 305 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1 349 tons, 22.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 176 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 084 tons, 18.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 2.4 %
                40 tons for mines

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 021 lbs / 3 185 Kg = 33.3 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 12.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.454
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.33 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (30 %):      12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Stern:      12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.74 ft / 4.19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 16 753 Square feet or 1 556 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 417 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.12
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Carthaginian on April 27, 2008, 05:24:43 PM
Excellent combination of speed and firepower- similar in role and speed to my Hatchitigbee, though gone about in a slightly different manner. I think that it's an excellent ship for it's intended purpose.
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Desertfox on April 27, 2008, 07:07:45 PM
Not bad, is the current war is anything to go by, such a ship will be very useful. The similar (if slower) Swiss Launcestons and Honolulus had a very active and succesful career as raiders and raider hunters.
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Korpen on April 28, 2008, 02:34:03 AM
Quote from: Jefgte on April 27, 2008, 04:42:43 PM
4800T raider, Peru Cruiser raider laid down 1909 (Engine 1910)
Should that not be 1909 engines? As far as i know we only have 1905, 1909 and 1912 engine years.
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: P3D on April 28, 2008, 03:20:41 AM
I was thinking why Peru would need commerce raiders. Then I looked at Coquimbo, the Rohan/Austrian/DKB territories, NUS and Iberia in the Atlantic, and it started to become justified.
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on April 28, 2008, 04:34:15 AM
IMHO, I prefer when the enemy fleet cruisers is busy to run after raiders.
With that strategic option, the enemy fleet is lighter to attack Peru.

I prefer the war on the enemy territory, not on mine.



Jef
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on April 28, 2008, 06:57:24 AM
4800T cruiser is too heavy & expensive for Peru, I prefer a lighter version.
I reuse the 1600T GB made to escort BB & protect them from the Torpedo Boats.

Here is a Gun Boat Raider to carry the war on the enemy area:


1700T GBR, Peru Raider laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   1 700 t light; 1 766 t standard; 2 283 t normal; 2 697 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   452.76 ft / 452.76 ft x 47.90 ft x 9.12 ft (normal load)
   138.00 m / 138.00 m x 14.60 m  x 2.78 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 305 lbs / 138 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 112
   8 - 18.0" / 457 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   406.82 ft / 124.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 138 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18 673 shp / 13 930 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 13 200nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 931 tons

Complement:
   164 - 214

Cost:
   £0.210 million / $0.841 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 38 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 95 tons, 4.1 %
      - Belts: 83 tons, 3.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 12 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 849 tons, 37.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 628 tons, 27.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 584 tons, 25.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 384 lbs / 628 Kg = 12.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.81
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 9.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.404
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.91 ft / 3.93 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 137.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 13 381 Square feet or 1 243 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 168 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.56
      - Longitudinal: 0.55
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: The Rock Doctor on April 28, 2008, 07:07:31 AM
If the ship is built with less than 1.00 hull strength, it needs to be built to the destroyer rules - in which case it can't be more than 1,000 t light at this point.

Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on April 28, 2008, 10:19:13 AM
Finaly...

3400T cruiser, Peru Cruiser Raider laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   3 400 t light; 3 510 t standard; 4 239 t normal; 4 822 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   498.69 ft / 498.69 ft x 52.49 ft x 13.37 ft (normal load)
   152.00 m / 152.00 m x 16.00 m  x 4.07 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1907 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 350 lbs / 159 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   8 - 18.0" / 457 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.38" / 35 mm   334.65 ft / 102.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 26 400 shp / 19 695 Kw = 27.01 kts
   Range 13 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 311 tons

Complement:
   262 - 341

Cost:
   £0.324 million / $1.295 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 44 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 406 tons, 9.6 %
      - Belts: 153 tons, 3.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 14 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 238 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1 200 tons, 28.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 630 tons, 38.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 839 tons, 19.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 155 lbs / 2 792 Kg = 57.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.56
   Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.424
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.33 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Mid (40 %):      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.17 ft / 4.32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 16 366 Square feet or 1 520 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 337 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Carthaginian on April 28, 2008, 10:30:10 AM
Man... anyone that gets to close here will eat some torpedoes!
Good gun armament and four twin torp mounts with reloads- an excellent 'cure what ails you' type ship!
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on April 29, 2008, 05:05:21 AM
 Here is the second ship of the class with light improvements


Tarapaca - LD 1910 - in service 1913


Tarapaca, Peru 3400T Cruiser Raider laid down 1910

Displacement:
   3 434 t light; 3 544 t standard; 4 209 t normal; 4 740 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   498.69 ft / 498.69 ft x 52.49 ft x 13.27 ft (normal load)
   152.00 m / 152.00 m x 16.00 m  x 4.05 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread
      6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 350 lbs / 159 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.38" / 35 mm   334.65 ft / 102.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 28 700 shp / 21 410 Kw = 27.62 kts
   Range 12 500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 197 tons

Complement:
   260 - 339

Cost:
   £0.323 million / $1.292 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 44 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 406 tons, 9.6 %
      - Belts: 153 tons, 3.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 14 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 238 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1 186 tons, 28.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 688 tons, 40.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 775 tons, 18.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 2.6 %
                    25 Tons for rangefinders
                    60 mines
                    15 tons for observation baloon
                    20 tons for normal reserves for very long cruise
                    + 100 tons overloaded for extra reserves very long cruise



Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 057 lbs / 2 747 Kg = 56.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.47
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 11.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.424
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.33 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Mid (40 %):      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.36 ft / 4.38 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 16 366 Square feet or 1 520 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 348 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

-----------------------
"100 tons overloaded for extra reserves very long cruise"

Like the Russian Fleet in 1905, I add weight overloaded for very long cruise
Just 3% of normal weight (3400t)
Top speed reduce to 1kts for the begining of the cruise.

It is certainly possible to add more but I dont know if you have the possibility to overload reasonably (3 to 5%) a Raider.



Jef  ;)



Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: P3D on April 30, 2008, 08:38:35 PM
Engine year 1909 or 1912 ;)
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on May 02, 2008, 08:45:17 AM
engines...

Probably 1909

1912 is too late for a 1910 LD & in service in 1913.



Jef ;)
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Borys on May 02, 2008, 02:53:49 PM
Ahoj!
Nice colonial aviso, as it would be called by the KKK.

Borys

Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Sachmle on May 02, 2008, 03:06:23 PM
Quote from: Borys on May 02, 2008, 02:53:49 PM
Ahoj!
Nice colonial aviso, as it would be called by the KKK.

Borys

And he means his navy, not THOSE KKK.  ;D
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Korpen on May 02, 2008, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: Sachmle on May 02, 2008, 03:06:23 PM
Quote from: Borys on May 02, 2008, 02:53:49 PM
Ahoj!
Nice colonial aviso, as it would be called by the KKK.

Borys

And he means his navy, not THOSE KKK.  ;D
Well, being KKK would maybe be an improvement from being a dick (kuk)? ;)
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Sachmle on May 02, 2008, 03:26:16 PM
America's KKK is a bunch of dicks.  ;) But enough thread-jacking from me.
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on July 23, 2008, 10:24:45 AM
Chincha Suyu, Peru 3700T Long range DD raider laid down 1919

Displacement:
   3 700 t light; 3 818 t standard; 4 364 t normal; 4 801 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   472.44 ft / 472.44 ft x 49.21 ft x 15.87 ft (normal load)
   144.00 m / 144.00 m x 15.00 m  x 4.84 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 440 lbs / 200 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   469.16 ft / 143.00 m   9.45 ft / 2.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 153 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 54 000 shp / 40 284 Kw = 32.07 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 983 tons

Complement:
   268 - 349

Cost:
   £0.959 million / $3.838 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 55 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 594 tons, 13.6 %
      - Belts: 266 tons, 6.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 13 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 315 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1 886 tons, 43.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 055 tons, 24.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 664 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 2.5 %
2 Tons for high rangefinders
78 mines
10 tons for 2 observation baloons
20 tons for normal reserves for very long cruise

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 619 lbs / 735 Kg = 15.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 11.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.60 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 152.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 14 436 Square feet or 1 341 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 44 lbs/sq ft or 215 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.53
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 0.56
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform



Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Borys on July 23, 2008, 10:36:43 AM
Now, this is a flotilla leader!
And interesting concept.
Any feedbacks fom wise guys about 
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea

and long anti commerce patrols?

Borys
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Sachmle on July 23, 2008, 11:53:26 AM
While I think it's a good idea, unfortunately IMO for it to use DD rules (i.e lower than 1.00 overall strength) it needs to be in DD weight class. IIRC Peru only has 750t DD tech, but even if they have 1000t DD tech she's still WAY overweight. I think you'd have to sim her as more of a PC than a DD. Also, no matter which class she falls in the FC weight is much to low. It's 25t for DD FC and 100t for PC FC.
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on July 23, 2008, 03:45:28 PM
This is a SS test.
Well, this is a very heavy DD with light cruiser performances. Note Sachmle, this is for 1919.
A special Techno could be add for this concept...reserved for Peru... & to sell for very good Friends  :D


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Testing a raider for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on September 23, 2008, 09:45:20 AM
For the 1915-1919 program, a more classical concept

4300T, Peru Raider laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4 300 t light; 4 418 t standard; 4 959 t normal; 5 393 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   544.62 ft / 544.62 ft x 52.49 ft x 14.67 ft (normal load)
   166.00 m / 166.00 m x 16.00 m  x 4.47 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 195 lbs / 88 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   472.44 ft / 144.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 133 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 52 000 shp / 38 792 Kw = 31.70 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 975 tons

Complement:
   295 - 384

Cost:
   £0.884 million / $3.537 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 24 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 246 tons, 5.0 %
      - Belts: 236 tons, 4.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1 937 tons, 39.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 972 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 659 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 217 lbs / 1 913 Kg = 80.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 11.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Mid (40 %):      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Stern:      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.80 ft / 4.82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 133.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 751 Square feet or 1 649 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 357 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.06
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Title: Re: Raiders for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on September 23, 2008, 05:38:50 PM
New & economical concept.
Not a Cruiser raider but a 1500t DD Raider.
------------------------------------------------------
1500T, Peru DD raider laid down 1915 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 552 t standard; 1 841 t normal; 2 073 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   402.10 ft / 400.26 ft x 40.03 ft x 10.18 ft (normal load)
   122.56 m / 122.00 m x 12.20 m  x 3.10 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      1 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      1 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 162 lbs / 74 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30 030 shp / 22 402 Kw = 31.23 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 521 tons

Complement:
   139 - 182

Cost:
   £0.290 million / $1.161 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 20 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 6 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 929 tons, 50.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 480 tons, 26.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 341 tons, 18.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 65 tons, 3.5 %
- Tall mast - 5t
- radio - 10t
- 30 minen
- 15t for 2 observation baloons, warm air - cable 300m- viewing 48km
- 5t reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     602 lbs / 273 Kg = 11.4 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.58
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.395
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.01 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m (11.81 ft / 3.60 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.05 ft / 4.28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 835 Square feet or 914 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 150 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.86
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Title: Re: Raiders for Peru
Post by: Guinness on September 23, 2008, 07:31:46 PM
The update rules say you don't have to allocate Misc weight for a short range wireless set anymore, so you might consider reusing that 10t for more torpedoes, more mines, or maybe another gun.

Otherwise, that's an awfully good long-legged destroyer. Maybe make a family of similar ships? A few like this one with lots of extra range, and a larger number of more heavily armed ships for fleet roles?
Title: Re: Raiders for Peru
Post by: Korpen on September 24, 2008, 03:49:58 AM
Quote from: Jefgte on September 23, 2008, 05:38:50 PM
New & economical concept.
Not a Cruiser raider but a 1500t DD Raider.
------------------------------------------------------
1500T, Peru DD raider laid down 1915 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 552 t standard; 1 841 t normal; 2 073 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   402.10 ft / 400.26 ft x 40.03 ft x 10.18 ft (normal load)
   122.56 m / 122.00 m x 12.20 m  x 3.10 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      1 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      1 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 162 lbs / 74 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes
Seriously undergunned for its size IMO.
Title: Re: Raiders for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on September 24, 2008, 05:00:36 AM
Job:
- Intercept commerce of enemy
- Raids on enemy coast - harbours & factories bombardements.
- Mines at strategic point


...& escape enemy reaction.

This ship is not attached to a Battle Squadron.

So, powerfull armament to engage enemy DD is secondary.


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Raiders for Peru
Post by: Korpen on September 24, 2008, 05:33:09 AM
Still, one can get a better armed ship without giving up allot of anything else. Just compare to my own 1500 ton 1916 engine DD:
For a loss of 0,8kts she have almost three times the firepower and longer legs.
QuoteI-Class, Netherlands Jager laid down 1914 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 588 t standard; 1 941 t normal; 2 224 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 33,46 ft x 12,14 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 120,00 m x 10,20 m  x 3,70 m

Armament:
      8 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 61,73lbs / 28,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 494 lbs / 224 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   6 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 27 812 shp / 20 748 Kw = 30,40 kts
   Range 9 470nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 636 tons

Complement:
   146 - 190

Cost:
   £0,279 million / $1,117 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 53 tons, 2,7 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 0,4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 7 tons, 0,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 876 tons, 45,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 509 tons, 26,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 441 tons, 22,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 2,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     489 lbs / 222 Kg = 9,3 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,30
   Metacentric height 1,6 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 11,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,425
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,03 ft / 5,80 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      17,06 ft / 5,20 m (9,19 ft / 2,80 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   9,19 ft / 2,80 m
      - Stern:      9,19 ft / 2,80 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,45 ft / 3,80 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 242 Square feet or 766 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 76 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 169 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 0,86
      - Overall: 0,53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Title: Re: Raiders for Peru
Post by: Korpen on September 24, 2008, 05:40:20 AM
Quote from: Jefgte on September 23, 2008, 05:38:50 PM
Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30 030 shp / 22 402 Kw = 31.23 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 521 tons
Disels on a high power, high speed ship? Unless is am very much mistaken Diesels share the same flaws and virtues as other reciprocating engines, period diesels seem highly unfit for high-speed applications compared to turbines.
Title: Re: Raiders for Peru
Post by: Jefgte on September 24, 2008, 06:14:23 AM
Diesels are on the 1st SS, on the next, I use turbine.


Jef  ;)