Ahoj!
I'm still toying with the idea of two cruisers - one 3200 the other 4700. One a "flottenkreuzer" for scouting and supporting GTBs, the other for independent operations.
But now I've slimmed down the larger one, and have two versions - standard and light. The usual cruier duties - scouting, chasing merchants, supporting own and fighting enemy torpedo vessels.
Which one is better?
Borys
Light version:
SMS KuK Marie Theresie, Habsburgs Kleiner Kreuzer laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
4 171 t light; 4 338 t standard; 4 845 t normal; 5 250 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
380,00 ft / 380,00 ft x 45,00 ft x 18,50 ft (normal load)
115,82 m / 115,82 m x 13,72 m x 5,64 m
Armament:
6 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1910 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1910 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft
4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1910 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 627 lbs / 284 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
8 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,00" / 76 mm 320,00 ft / 97,54 m 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 130% of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,00" / 25 mm - 1,00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4,00" / 102 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 34 161 shp / 25 484 Kw = 27,00 kts
Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 912 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
289 - 377
Cost:
£0,454 million / $1,814 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 84 tons, 1,7%
Armour: 731 tons, 15,1%
- Belts: 466 tons, 9,6%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 22 tons, 0,5%
- Armour Deck: 218 tons, 4,5%
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0,5%
Machinery: 1 691 tons, 34,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 614 tons, 33,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 674 tons, 13,9%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,0%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3 720 lbs / 1 687 Kg = 34,4 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 12,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,28
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,536
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24,00 ft / 7,32 m
- Forecastle (20%): 18,50 ft / 5,64 m
- Mid (50%): 18,50 ft / 5,64 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 12,00 ft / 3,66 m (18,50 ft / 5,64 m before break)
- Stern: 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
- Average freeboard: 17,97 ft / 5,48 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128,0%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109,6%
Waterplane Area: 11 779 Square feet or 1 094 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 358 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,89
- Longitudinal: 2,97
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Heavy version:
SMS KuK Marie Theresie, Habsburgs Kleiner Kreuzer laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
4 474 t light; 4 648 t standard; 5 175 t normal; 5 597 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
380,00 ft / 380,00 ft x 45,00 ft x 19,80 ft (normal load)
115,82 m / 115,82 m x 13,72 m x 6,04 m
Armament:
6 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1910 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1910 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft
4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1910 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 627 lbs / 284 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
8 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,00" / 102 mm 330,00 ft / 100,58 m 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 134% of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,00" / 25 mm - 1,00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4,00" / 102 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 35 600 shp / 26 557 Kw = 27,00 kts
Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 949 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
304 - 396
Cost:
£0,474 million / $1,897 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 84 tons, 1,6%
Armour: 903 tons, 17,4%
- Belts: 637 tons, 12,3%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 22 tons, 0,4%
- Armour Deck: 218 tons, 4,2%
- Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0,5%
Machinery: 1 762 tons, 34,1%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 674 tons, 32,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 701 tons, 13,6%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,0%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4 102 lbs / 1 861 Kg = 38,0 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 13,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,32
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,535
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24,00 ft / 7,32 m
- Forecastle (20%): 19,00 ft / 5,79 m
- Mid (50%): 19,00 ft / 5,79 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 12,00 ft / 3,66 m (19,00 ft / 5,79 m before break)
- Stern: 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
- Average freeboard: 18,35 ft / 5,59 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124,4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106,9%
Waterplane Area: 11 768 Square feet or 1 093 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 361 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 3,23
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Ahoj!
Or am I hair spliting?
Borys
i think either would be fine honestly, im building a biger ship for the same job...
I don't see much difference besides the main belt thickness. On that basis, I think 3" is okay for the times and would go with the lighter design.
Intermediate version :)
The MB is as long as the hull. Is it worth it?
Borys
SMS KuK Marie Theresie, Habsburgs Kleiner Kreuzer laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
4 474 t light; 4 648 t standard; 5 175 t normal; 5 597 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
380,21 ft / 380,00 ft x 45,00 ft x 19,80 ft (normal load)
115,89 m / 115,82 m x 13,72 m x 6,04 m
Armament:
6 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1910 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1910 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all aft
4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1910 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 627 lbs / 284 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
8 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,50" / 89 mm 380,00 ft / 115,82 m 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 154% of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,00" / 25 mm - 1,00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 1,25" / 32 mm, Conning tower: 4,00" / 102 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 35 600 shp / 26 557 Kw = 27,00 kts
Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 949 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
304 - 396
Cost:
£0,474 million / $1,897 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 84 tons, 1,6%
Armour: 911 tons, 17,6%
- Belts: 591 tons, 11,4%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 22 tons, 0,4%
- Armour Deck: 272 tons, 5,3%
- Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0,5%
Machinery: 1 762 tons, 34,1%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 666 tons, 32,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 701 tons, 13,6%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,0%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4 100 lbs / 1 860 Kg = 38,0 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 12,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,535
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,50 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24,00 ft / 7,32 m
- Forecastle (20%): 19,00 ft / 5,79 m
- Mid (50%): 19,00 ft / 5,79 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 12,00 ft / 3,66 m (19,00 ft / 5,79 m before break)
- Stern: 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
- Average freeboard: 18,35 ft / 5,59 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124,4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106,9%
Waterplane Area: 11 768 Square feet or 1 093 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 359 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 3,22
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I dunno - those pointy ends of the ship probably don't provide a great deal of floatation.
Considering that there are only minute differences between the various designs, I would go for the cheapest one (thus the smallest one).
Ahoj!
I got the light version down to 4,000 tonnes.
The main difference is 3" vs. 4" MB.
BP - 4BP a pop versus the 4,5BP a pop of the heavier version.
Price difference - 4,75$ vs 4,45$.
Borys
SMS KuK Marie Theresie, Habsburgs Kleiner Kreuzer laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
4 065 t light; 4 219 t standard; 4 718 t normal; 5 117 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
380,00 ft / 380,00 ft x 45,00 ft x 18,50 ft (normal load)
115,82 m / 115,82 m x 13,72 m x 5,64 m
Armament:
6 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1910 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1910 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft
4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1910 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 627 lbs / 284 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 170
8 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,00" / 76 mm 320,00 ft / 97,54 m 11,00 ft / 3,35 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 130% of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,00" / 25 mm - 1,00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4,00" / 102 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33 368 shp / 24 893 Kw = 27,00 kts
Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 898 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
284 - 370
Cost:
£0,444 million / $1,778 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 84 tons, 1,8%
Armour: 689 tons, 14,6%
- Belts: 427 tons, 9,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 22 tons, 0,5%
- Armour Deck: 215 tons, 4,6%
- Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0,5%
Machinery: 1 652 tons, 35,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 590 tons, 33,7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 653 tons, 13,8%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,1%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3 625 lbs / 1 644 Kg = 33,6 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 12,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,32
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,522
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24,00 ft / 7,32 m
- Forecastle (20%): 18,50 ft / 5,64 m
- Mid (50%): 18,50 ft / 5,64 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 12,00 ft / 3,66 m (18,50 ft / 5,64 m before break)
- Stern: 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
- Average freeboard: 17,97 ft / 5,48 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110,1%
Waterplane Area: 11 626 Square feet or 1 080 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 356 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 3,00
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
go with the light
How many do you intend to build? If you plan to build a lot of them go with the lighter version as you can build 9+ for the tonnage of 8 larger ones. If you are only building a small division or modifying the design every few years, than build the larger ones so they last.
Ahoj!
I am thinking of laying down at least 6.
Not suffering from BP shortage ATM, and with 0,25$ difference, I'm tempted to go with the bigger ship.
Borys
Price difference is $0.5 by the new rules.
Ahoj!
Must check them. I was going by what SS tells me times ten.
Borys
ya it goes up the biger the ship gets to lol, my new LBB actualy costs less than my original did