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Main Archive => Navalism 3 Armed Forces => Armed Forces => New Ship Designs => Topic started by: Carthaginian on October 31, 2007, 04:39:21 PM

Title: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on October 31, 2007, 04:39:21 PM
The CSA, during it's numerous attempts to create the 'light torpedo ram' project that became the TR-200 considered many designs that were eventually rejected. The following design was created to see just how light a modern destroyer could be constructed. The results were not what the Admiralty desired, so the design was relegated to a folder labeled 'Studies' and stuffed in a filing cabinet in a disused water closet with a burnt-out light bulb in the Admiralty building's basement maintenance department, behind a door which bears a sign warning you to 'Beware of  the Tiger.'*

The ship WOULD be useful for coastal defense, however, and could benefit a small nation (especially if the Confederate Navy would get off it's butt and develop triple torp tubes). Thus, the Confederate Navy is offering to build these ships- starting in 2nd/1909- at a rate of 4 per half for any interested party.# They will be picked up by the purchaser at a Confederate port and it will be the responsibility of the purchaser to get them to their nation's territorial waters.

What say? Any takers?

Displacement:
   250 t light; 263 t standard; 295 t normal; 321 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   215.00 ft / 215.00 ft x 18.00 ft x 6.00 ft (normal load)
   65.53 m / 65.53 m x 5.49 m  x 1.83 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 52 lbs / 24 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   2 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,000 shp / 5,968 Kw = 27.75 kts
   Range 1,900nm at 10.39 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 58 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   35 - 46

Cost:
   £0.036 million / $0.142 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.6 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 158 tons, 53.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 81 tons, 27.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 45 tons, 15.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     73 lbs / 33 Kg = 3.4 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 9.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.73

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.445
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (50 %):      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Stern:      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:   7.46 ft / 2.27 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 189.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,458 Square feet or 228 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 35 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 86 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.18
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather


*the first person to tell me where the 'location' quote comes from (a book) gets 4 of these ships built FREE!

#parties ordering this ship cannot currently be at war, but can order them after war's end, or build them under license for fees to be negotiated later.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Borys on October 31, 2007, 04:47:48 PM
Ahoj!
Austria-Hungary will order in peacetime.
Borys
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on October 31, 2007, 04:52:58 PM
I can produce a maximum of 8 per half.
I'll prepare for the order. :)
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Borys on October 31, 2007, 04:57:47 PM
I will take three dozen, please.
But please prepare reduction rings to fire 18 inch torpedos.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: P3D on October 31, 2007, 05:05:17 PM
In the RN, destroyers were delivered without any weapons, TTs and guns installed later by the Admiralty.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on October 31, 2007, 05:14:35 PM
36 ships / 8 per half = 5 halves
Delivery schedule will be as follows: 6+6+6+8

Payment will be per Block: $2.40 for Blocks 1-3, $3.20 for Block 4.


Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on October 31, 2007, 05:15:20 PM
Unfortunately, it appears that my dance card was filled by the first customer.
My apologies to all other potential buyers. :(
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Borys on October 31, 2007, 05:23:37 PM
A charm dealing with the CSA.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on November 01, 2007, 04:56:44 PM
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/Carthaginian/ExportCan.png)

Just thought that the Habsburgs might like to SEE what they are buying first.
I made this one look more historical for a small torpedo boat, based it off a Turkish design.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Borys on November 02, 2007, 12:48:26 AM
Ahoj!
Purdy!
BTW - I plan to use them for general patrolling around bases. Malta is the first place that came to my mind as to where to base them. They will be coded "K1" to "K36", for "Konfedaerater"
Borys
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on November 02, 2007, 01:35:54 PM
Quote from: Borys on November 02, 2007, 12:48:26 AM
Ahoj!
Purdy!
BTW - I plan to use them for general patrolling around bases. Malta is the first place that came to my mind as to where to base them. They will be coded "K1" to "K36", for "Konfedaerater"
Borys

I had intended their sale to attract some of the newer PC's with limited budgets and BP; I was also aiming for NPC buyers as well. I never thought that a major power would jump on the sale. Anyway, consider it done, and K-class units 1-8 will be laid down as soon as the war ends.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Borys on November 02, 2007, 02:17:12 PM
OOC
Are any newer PC's interested?
USA, Peru?
Borys
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on November 02, 2007, 02:37:26 PM
Guess not... but I have a contract and am more than happy with it.
The Habsburgs will get their ships, on time and within budget.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Ithekro on November 02, 2007, 08:06:06 PM
Meanwhile Rohan builds destroyers for the Confederates (as soon as I can get home to do my report and figure out what they were exactly.)
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on November 02, 2007, 08:22:51 PM
Quote from: Ithekro on November 02, 2007, 08:06:06 PM
Meanwhile Rohan builds destroyers for the Confederates (as soon as I can get home to do my report and figure out what they were exactly.)

And the Confederacy builds destroyers for itself, too. I'm pumping out a six-ship flotilla of TR-200's per half every half for the next 2 years.

Seriously, I hadn't expected there to be any PC takers for this design. I knew it was a handy little ship for coastal work, but I underestimated it's utility apparently. I only thought that NPC states would be interested via their controlling mods.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Tanthalas on November 02, 2007, 10:05:49 PM
i was actualy looking at mine 500nm is actualy plenty for the med, google earth ftw
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on November 03, 2007, 08:55:57 AM
500 n. mi. is a good range, but not at 10 knots... especially when your top speed is 3x that much. You drop to about 50 miles worth of range at dash speed, and that'll barely get you out of the harbor. That's why I stretched the range on these like I did.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on November 06, 2007, 09:14:07 PM
Got bored doing my homework (damn lot of it in nursing school), so I decided to draw up this baby on 1pix:4" scale. She turned out to look rather longer and leaner at this scale... but no less the greyhound of the sea that she is.

(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/Carthaginian/K-Class.png)

And if you'll notice, Borys, I even included a proper jack.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: P3D on November 06, 2007, 10:47:21 PM
I found some data on historical Austrian TBs, what was considered adequate range for the adriatic:
Huszar, 390t, 500nm@28kts,
Tatra, 850t, 500@32, 1200@20, 104t coal, 125t oil

This is adequate from Cattaro to Otranto, a bit fighting and back, all full power.

74T, 250t, 300@28kts (requirement was 10 hour Full power at 30kts, but the ships specification was changed from 30 to 28kts).

So a good range figure would be 300@27.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Carthaginian on November 06, 2007, 11:03:23 PM
She only comes in at 125 n. mi. @ 27.75 knots with full bunkers at standard displacement; at max displacement (probably with bags of coal in the hallways), that goes up to 205 n. mi. @ 27.75 knots. But considering that she's a full 100t lighter at normal displacement than the ships you're citing, I think she's well within realistic limits; she has 7 hours at full power- that's longer than her stokers can last.

http://www.warshipsww2.eu/lode.php?language=E&period=&idtrida=984 (http://www.warshipsww2.eu/lode.php?language=E&period=&idtrida=984)
This is the ship I based her on; she's still smaller than the ones you are looking at.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: P3D on November 06, 2007, 11:43:41 PM
[Nitpicking mode on]
A 250t (normal) TB is quite smaller than this 250t(light) TB. And the historical ship had 70t coal capacity - that was bunker, excluding whatever was piled on the deck - but that's not a good idea on a destroyer which will get wet.

But as we cannot sim small ships correctly, nothing we can do. They will be smaller ad slower, have less range but too strong armament.

Note: I realized lately that should have posted this data on Miketr's thread, with slightly smaller TBs that have inadequate coal bunkers (13t, 1/4th of yours).
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Borys on November 07, 2007, 12:38:35 AM
sniff,sniff - I'm touched ....
But shouldn't the bottom right corner be green?
The Habsburgs being pro-ecology and anti-globalwarming and all that?


The turtleback bow is excellent!
Borys

Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: P3D on November 07, 2007, 10:51:37 AM
Quote from: Borys on November 07, 2007, 12:38:35 AM
sniff,sniff - I'm touched ....
But shouldn't the bottom right corner be green?
That's the MERCHANT flag. War flag is rot-weiss-rot.
Title: Re: For Export?
Post by: Borys on November 07, 2007, 12:55:52 PM
Ahoj!
Thanks.
The Ausglech had limits ... :)
Borys