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Main Archive => Navalism 3 Armed Forces => Armed Forces => New Ship Designs => Topic started by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:31:35 AM

Title: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:31:35 AM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   23.705 t light; 25.160 t standard; 31.680 t normal; 36.896 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   600,00 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   182,88 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,67kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      18 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9.403 lbs / 4.265 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   6,00" / 152 mm   209,97 ft / 64,00 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   28,48 ft / 8,68 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,1" / 281 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 14,02" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 5 shafts, 71.685 shp / 53.477 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 11.735 tons (85% coal)

Complement:
   1.186 - 1.543

Cost:
   £2,366 million / $9,465 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.175 tons, 3,7 %
   Armour: 7.249 tons, 22,9 %
      - Belts: 3.798 tons, 12,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 411 tons, 1,3 %
      - Armament: 1.913 tons, 6,0 %
      - Armour Deck: 824 tons, 2,6 %
      - Conning Tower: 302 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 3.924 tons, 12,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11.358 tons, 35,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7.975 tons, 25,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42.085 lbs / 19.089 Kg = 48,6 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 6,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 6,6 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 16,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,616
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,18 ft / 8,59 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Stern:      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,77 ft / 5,72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128,4 %
   Waterplane Area: 44.542 Square feet or 4.138 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 923 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,19
      - Longitudinal: 1,69
      - Overall: 1,23
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

just a flimsy idea
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Korpen on October 26, 2007, 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:31:35 AM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908


Well, it would not be the first..
THe Ultor class should be in service by now: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=255.msg2103#msg2103
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:39:23 AM
Ups wrong design prev posted,here is the new rigth one :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Erzatz Isbre,
Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth
evt to be laid down 1908

Displacement:
   22.867 t light; 24.267 t standard; 28.903 t normal; 32.612 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   622,60 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   189,77 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,67kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      18 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9.403 lbs / 4.265 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   6,00" / 152 mm   209,97 ft / 64,00 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   28,48 ft / 8,68 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,1" / 281 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 14,02" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 5 shafts, 66.184 shp / 49.373 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.345 tons

Complement:
   1.107 - 1.440

Cost:
   £2,256 million / $9,023 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.175 tons, 4,1 %
   Armour: 7.139 tons, 24,7 %
      - Belts: 3.787 tons, 13,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 411 tons, 1,4 %
      - Armament: 1.873 tons, 6,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 783 tons, 2,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 284 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 3.343 tons, 11,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11.210 tons, 38,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.036 tons, 20,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37.740 lbs / 17.119 Kg = 43,6 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 6,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 6,2 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 16,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,562
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,94 ft / 8,21 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Stern:      17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,94 ft / 5,47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 42.347 Square feet or 3.934 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 956 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,21
      - Longitudinal: 1,74
      - Overall: 1,26
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
comments pls
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Korpen on October 26, 2007, 11:43:08 AM
With 1909 engines we are limited to a maximum od 12 000 shp / shaft. So the ship got to be slower as the max shp she can have is 48 000.
Also the ships needs more misc weight, around 250-300 tons should be enogh.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:43:49 AM
Quote from: Korpen on October 26, 2007, 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:31:35 AM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908


Well, it would not be the first..
THe Ultor class should be in service by now


I dont consider Ultor class as dreadnougths,to few guns,in my wiev I consider they are semidreadnougths .
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: The Rock Doctor on October 26, 2007, 11:44:30 AM
The bunkerage is excessive, and unless you have a domestic source of oil, I'd recommend sticking to coal-firing.

I can't see the secondary and tertiary batteries fitting amidships, unless the secondaries are to be hull casemates.

I'd vote for heavier deck armor.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:48:03 AM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   23.705 t light; 25.160 t standard; 31.680 t normal; 36.896 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   628,18 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   191,47 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,67kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      18 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (9x2 guns), 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9.403 lbs / 4.265 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   6,00" / 152 mm   209,97 ft / 64,00 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   28,48 ft / 8,68 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,1" / 281 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 14,02" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 5 shafts, 51.581 shp / 38.480 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 11.735 tons (85% coal)

Complement:
   1.186 - 1.543

Cost:
   £2,212 million / $8,849 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.175 tons, 3,7 %
   Armour: 7.634 tons, 24,1 %
      - Belts: 3.798 tons, 12,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 411 tons, 1,3 %
      - Armament: 2.299 tons, 7,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 824 tons, 2,6 %
      - Conning Tower: 302 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 2.823 tons, 8,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12.072 tons, 38,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7.975 tons, 25,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48.274 lbs / 21.897 Kg = 55,8 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 8,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,616
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,18 ft / 8,59 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Stern:      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,77 ft / 5,72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128,4 %
   Waterplane Area: 44.542 Square feet or 4.138 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 981 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,23
      - Longitudinal: 1,77
      - Overall: 1,28
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
another try ;) :) :)
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 11:55:48 AM
drop speed to 22 kts. that should get you under 48000 shp.  also have you tryd it with 14" guns?
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:56:14 AM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   23.715 t light; 25.291 t standard; 32.297 t normal; 37.902 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   626,94 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   191,09 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      18 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (9x2 guns), 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 10.710 lbs / 4.858 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   6,00" / 152 mm   209,97 ft / 64,00 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   28,48 ft / 8,68 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 5 shafts, 52.438 shp / 39.119 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 12.610 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1.203 - 1.565

Cost:
   £2,362 million / $9,450 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.339 tons, 4,1 %
   Armour: 9.392 tons, 29,1 %
      - Belts: 4.008 tons, 12,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 411 tons, 1,3 %
      - Armament: 2.168 tons, 6,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.500 tons, 7,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 306 tons, 0,9 %
   Machinery: 2.913 tons, 9,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.871 tons, 30,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8.582 tons, 26,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     45.331 lbs / 20.562 Kg = 33,0 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 7,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 97 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,628
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,94 ft / 8,21 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20,44 ft / 6,23 m (18,80 ft / 5,73 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Stern:      17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,58 ft / 5,66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 45.041 Square feet or 4.184 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 796 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,40
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Last try :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Korpen on October 26, 2007, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 11:48:03 AM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   23.705 t light; 25.160 t standard; 31.680 t normal; 36.896 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   628,18 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   191,47 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,67kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      18 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (9x2 guns), 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9.403 lbs / 4.265 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
She is still over engined, less so, but still significant.
The total number of main guns she have is the same as the Ultor-class.
But she really need thicker deck armour, 25mm is ok on a light cruiser, not on the pride of the fleet (but it is twice what the ultor-class have, so it is an improvment).
The amount of coal is insane, considering the enormous difference in draft she will have between normal and deep draft i would say the main belt need to be at least 1 or 2m higher/deeper just to compensate for that. Reduce cruising speed to 15kts and you could cut the coal bunkers in half, to 1/3 if going for 12 kts.

Finally, 8x30cm guns are a fairly light armament for a 23kton ship.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 12:04:45 PM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   24.569 t light; 26.401 t standard; 33.634 t normal; 39.421 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   626,94 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   191,09 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      18 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13.454 lbs / 6.103 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   6,00" / 152 mm   209,98 ft / 64,00 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   28,58 ft / 8,71 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 5 shafts, 54.302 shp / 40.509 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 13.019 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1.241 - 1.614

Cost:
   £2,695 million / $10,780 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.682 tons, 5,0 %
   Armour: 9.372 tons, 27,9 %
      - Belts: 3.803 tons, 11,3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 412 tons, 1,2 %
      - Armament: 2.282 tons, 6,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.560 tons, 7,6 %
      - Conning Tower: 314 tons, 0,9 %
   Machinery: 3.017 tons, 9,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.199 tons, 30,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9.065 tons, 27,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42.461 lbs / 19.260 Kg = 30,9 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 6,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,94 ft / 8,21 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20,44 ft / 6,23 m (17,16 ft / 5,23 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Stern:      17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,33 ft / 5,59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 46.132 Square feet or 4.286 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 808 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,37
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Another revision due to "black info"
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 26, 2007, 12:13:18 PM
Ahoj!
Had to revise my post, as you posted yet another design. But most of my comments still hold. Korpen is correct on speed and range - 6-8000K nm at 10-12 knots and you should be a happy camper :)

Sorry, no rest for the wicked :)

Remember - half of the Main Belt is below the waterline.

We can't go over 4 shafts - that's the absolute limit.
But I'd say you are almost there, as the design is concerned.
4 shafts at 12,000 SHP each should give you a speed of 21, which is enough. That will allow you to mount a fourth Main Battery turret. I SEE YOU DID THAT :)
Cut back on Main Gun ammo to 80-110 shells, and the number of 6 inch secondaries to 12-14. Maybe swap End Belt and Upper Belt thickness?
I'd cut the Main Belt to 12 or 13 inches, and
- extend MB by 4 feet, and Upper Belt by two feet
- thicken upper belt to 8 to 10 inches

Yet another possible tweak is trim - you have excellent fire platform, but not so good stability - try to bring to up stability to 1,15 - that will make the ship more survivable.
ATM Main Gun barbette thickness is not OK, as there is a 4 foot gap between Upper Belt and weather deck, where the paper thin 10 inch barbette is exposed. If you bring the Upper Belt to weather deck level (and to 8 inches or better), then the 10 inch barbette will be enough. If you decide to use superfiring turrets, then I suggest 11 inch barbettes minimum. And then you can leave 8 feet of the sides unarmoured - or thinly armoured.


Borys
 

Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 12:15:59 PM
To many shafts we are limited to no more than 4 shafts sry man I thought of the same thing =P  Do you have superfireing? If you do you also have triple turrets.  in which case id suggest something like my light bb plan  20kts, good armor, and 3 trip 12" turrets one being superfireing.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 26, 2007, 12:16:24 PM
Ahoj!
An example of what can be achieved on similar displacement and armament.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=825.msg11120#msg11120
I am building two such ships, and plan to order a third.

Borys

Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: P3D on October 26, 2007, 12:16:52 PM
I'd go with 14" guns. You should also make B and X turrets superfiring. As Khymerion started researching it back, it is available to you 1909 the latest.
150 shells per gun... on the high side, but SS default.

The 6" guns must be placed in the casemates, turreted 6" secondaries are a bit early (according to the rules). You don't need 18 of them either. 105mm is too large for tertiaries, make them 3".
Upper belt should be thicker (6-8").
5.47m freeboard would require 14-15' main belt (upper belt height is usually one deck, roughly 8') to have continuous coverage up to the weather deck. Or decrease freeboard.
Armored deck should be at least 2".
Torpedo Bulkhead 1.5".

Turret face should always be thicker than the belt.
Barbette: you have ~13" equivalent protection if you increase the belt. However, if you make the turrets superfiring, make it thicker.

You are limited to 4 shafts and 48000SHP.
You don't need such a huge range, it costs a lot of (both light and normal) displacement, especially for coal. 8000@12 would be adequate, anything more is just wasted.

Misc. Weight: the 200-250t Korpen is quoting is for other equipment and and displacement reserve. At least 100t should be needed for a battleship.

Size: limit length to 170m to fit in lvl 2 drydocks you have overseas - and lvl2 shipyards so you could build her.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 12:17:42 PM
Once again to the drawing board lol.lol
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 12:23:03 PM
You'll get used to it lol.  It is a very rare ship that gets posted that someone cant find a flaw in.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 12:27:52 PM
How do you make turrets superfiring?
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 12:39:02 PM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   25.379 t light; 26.824 t standard; 31.265 t normal; 34.819 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   584,68 ft / 557,74 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   178,21 m / 170,00 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns in single mounts, 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     5 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13.025 lbs / 5.908 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   330,94 ft / 100,87 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   144,36 ft / 44,00 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
     82,43 ft / 25,13 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   11,28 ft / 3,44 m
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   28,84 ft / 8,79 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   8,00" / 203 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 45.081 shp / 33.631 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 15,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7.995 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1.175 - 1.528

Cost:
   £2,607 million / $10,426 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.628 tons, 5,2 %
   Armour: 10.581 tons, 33,8 %
      - Belts: 3.978 tons, 12,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 416 tons, 1,3 %
      - Armament: 2.714 tons, 8,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 3.173 tons, 10,1 %
      - Conning Tower: 299 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 2.505 tons, 8,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.365 tons, 33,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.887 tons, 18,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38.654 lbs / 17.533 Kg = 28,2 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 6,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03
   Metacentric height 5,3 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 18,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,58 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,94 ft / 8,21 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Stern:      17,16 ft / 5,23 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,94 ft / 5,47 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 42.883 Square feet or 3.984 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 182 lbs/sq ft or 887 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,52
      - Overall: 0,98
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
yet another gggggggg
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 26, 2007, 12:41:35 PM
Ahoj!
Check e-mail.
Borys
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 26, 2007, 12:43:53 PM
Ahoj!
Now change ONE thing - you seem to have put in 8 superfiring guns. Write in 4 (four). Don't change anything else. And let us see what happens ....

Borys
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 12:45:20 PM
Quote from: Borys on October 26, 2007, 12:43:53 PM
Ahoj!
Now change ONE thing - you seem to have put in 8 superfiring guns. Write in 4 (four). Don't change anything else. And let us see what happens ....

Borys

LOLi was bout to say that
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: P3D on October 26, 2007, 01:11:12 PM
That would help with the awful stability too...
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 01:11:32 PM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   27.872 t light; 29.409 t standard; 36.654 t normal; 42.449 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   628,18 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 31,17 ft (normal load)
   191,47 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 9,50 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (6 mounts), 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     3 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12.811 lbs / 5.811 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   357,19 ft / 108,87 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   6,00" / 152 mm   209,98 ft / 64,00 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
     32,83 ft / 10,01 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   29,07 ft / 8,86 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,1" / 281 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 49.308 shp / 36.784 Kw = 22,08 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 13.040 tons (85% coal)

Complement:
   1.323 - 1.721

Cost:
   £2,699 million / $10,794 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.601 tons, 4,4 %
   Armour: 10.320 tons, 28,2 %
      - Belts: 3.444 tons, 9,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 419 tons, 1,1 %
      - Armament: 2.609 tons, 7,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 3.514 tons, 9,6 %
      - Conning Tower: 333 tons, 0,9 %
   Machinery: 2.699 tons, 7,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12.952 tons, 35,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8.781 tons, 24,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     54.016 lbs / 24.501 Kg = 39,4 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 8,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,686
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,18 ft / 8,59 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Stern:      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,77 ft / 5,72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 47.492 Square feet or 4.412 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 991 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,05
      - Longitudinal: 1,56
      - Overall: 1,10
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Warning: Raised guns + low guns > total guns - Main battery???
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Korpen on October 26, 2007, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 01:11:32 PM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   27.872 t light; 29.409 t standard; 36.654 t normal; 42.449 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   628,18 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 31,17 ft (normal load)
   191,47 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 9,50 m
Far to large for what you are getting. Range exessive again.

A Ship that might serve as inspiration:
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=898.msg12029#msg12029

QuoteWarning: Raised guns + low guns > total guns - Main battery???
The total number you have checked in gun "above deck" and "below deck" are greater then the total number of guns.
You want 4 raised guns, no more no less. ;)
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 26, 2007, 01:33:14 PM
Ahoj!
I was thinking about something on these lines, although this is still far from perfect:
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   22 403 t light; 23 669 t standard; 25 504 t normal; 26 973 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550,00 ft / 550,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   167,64 m / 167,64 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 400,00lbs / 635,03kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 13 224 lbs / 5 998 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   330,00 ft / 100,58 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   150,00 ft / 45,72 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
     70,00 ft / 21,34 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
     Main Belt covers 92% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   29,00 ft / 8,84 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38 277 shp / 28 554 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 304 tons (10% coal)

Complement:
   1 008 - 1 311

Cost:
   £2,395 million / $9,580 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 625 tons, 6,4%
   Armour: 9 189 tons, 36,0%
      - Belts: 3 767 tons, 14,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 418 tons, 1,6%
      - Armament: 2 278 tons, 8,9%
      - Armour Deck: 2 465 tons, 9,7%
      - Conning Tower: 261 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 1 756 tons, 6,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 433 tons, 37,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 101 tons, 12,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30 148 lbs / 13 675 Kg = 22,0 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 5,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,541
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,00 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Stern:      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,80 ft / 5,12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,1%
   Waterplane Area: 38 062 Square feet or 3 536 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 902 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,68
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 01:36:39 PM
just a throw together 14" BB it would not be a fit ship for the Italian OOB though to much armor and to heavy =P

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1909

Displacement:
   23,941 t light; 25,147 t standard; 26,500 t normal; 27,582 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   608.58 ft / 600.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   185.50 m / 182.88 m x 27.43 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 11,976 lbs / 5,432 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   308.40 ft / 94.00 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   7.00" / 178 mm   291.58 ft / 88.87 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   308.40 ft / 94.00 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 79 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   308.40 ft / 94.00 m   23.27 ft / 7.09 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 28,140 shp / 20,993 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,435 tons (70% coal)

Complement:
   1,038 - 1,350

Cost:
   £2.287 million / $9.147 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,497 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 10,523 tons, 39.7 %
      - Belts: 4,103 tons, 15.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 531 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 3,185 tons, 12.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,436 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 268 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,366 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,355 tons, 39.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,559 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     44,994 lbs / 20,409 Kg = 32.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.716
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (24 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (24 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.10 ft / 6.43 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,888 Square feet or 4,077 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 856 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 26, 2007, 01:43:23 PM
Thin out the end armour, add 3 feet to the Upper Belt, and you've got it made. Better than my suggestion.
Of course, the issue of Type 2 Slips and Drydocks stands.
Borys
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 01:57:26 PM
ya like i said just a throw together im working on homework atm, so i didnt put a whole lot of effort into her ya know.  unlike my light 14" ship that i spent my whole class working on lol
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 01:59:20 PM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   25.112 t light; 26.565 t standard; 33.998 t normal; 39.945 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   583,73 ft / 557,74 ft x 101,71 ft (Bulges 104,99 ft) x 31,17 ft (normal load)
   177,92 m / 170,00 m x 31,00 m (Bulges 32,00 m)  x 9,50 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12.382 lbs / 5.617 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   330,94 ft / 100,87 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   209,98 ft / 64,00 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
     16,82 ft / 5,13 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   6,00" / 152 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   11,00 ft / 3,35 m
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,00" / 25 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   29,07 ft / 8,86 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46.806 shp / 34.917 Kw = 21,89 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 13.379 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1.251 - 1.627

Cost:
   £2,543 million / $10,172 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.548 tons, 4,6 %
   Armour: 9.887 tons, 29,1 %
      - Belts: 3.687 tons, 10,8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 419 tons, 1,2 %
      - Armament: 2.644 tons, 7,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.819 tons, 8,3 %
      - Conning Tower: 317 tons, 0,9 %
   Machinery: 2.600 tons, 7,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.777 tons, 31,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8.887 tons, 26,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48.949 lbs / 22.203 Kg = 35,7 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 8,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
   Metacentric height 7,1 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 16,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 48 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,652
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,98 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Stern:      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,29 ft / 5,27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 43.535 Square feet or 4.045 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 903 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,55
      - Overall: 1,01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 26, 2007, 02:05:15 PM
Ahoj!
And the number of the counting shall be four, no more, no less. Eight is right out. And thoust shalt not count to three, unless it is to proceed to four.

Borys
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: P3D on October 26, 2007, 02:06:26 PM
You are still enamored with the range. You don't really need to armor colliers with 14" guns.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 02:11:32 PM
he is right (looks for the falling sky as he knows the world is ending if he agrees with P3D) go down to 6000 @ 10 or so you realy dont have that much ocean to cover. 
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 02:20:15 PM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   26.638 t light; 27.944 t standard; 29.449 t normal; 30.653 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   585,93 ft / 557,74 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   178,59 m / 170,00 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,67kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8.332 lbs / 3.779 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   357,19 ft / 108,87 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   144,36 ft / 44,00 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
     56,20 ft / 17,13 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   6,00" / 152 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   28,48 ft / 8,68 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 5 shafts, 48.069 shp / 35.859 Kw = 22,66 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.709 tons (85% coal)

Complement:
   1.123 - 1.461

Cost:
   £2,176 million / $8,702 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.041 tons, 3,5 %
   Armour: 9.129 tons, 31,0 %
      - Belts: 3.375 tons, 11,5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 411 tons, 1,4 %
      - Armament: 2.374 tons, 8,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.681 tons, 9,1 %
      - Conning Tower: 288 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 2.631 tons, 8,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13.536 tons, 46,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.811 tons, 9,5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46.217 lbs / 20.964 Kg = 53,4 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 8,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 6,3 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 16,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,616
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,58 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,18 ft / 8,59 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Stern:      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,77 ft / 5,72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 41.405 Square feet or 3.847 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 242 lbs/sq ft or 1.183 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,44
      - Longitudinal: 2,43
      - Overall: 1,52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
last try for tonigth
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 26, 2007, 02:21:51 PM
Ahoj!
Sweet dreams!
Borys
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 02:22:31 PM
How bout this?

Italia-BB-1909, Italia Heavy BB laid down 1909

Displacement:
   23,993 t light; 25,201 t standard; 26,550 t normal; 27,629 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   558.58 ft / 550.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   170.26 m / 167.64 m x 27.43 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
     8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 11,976 lbs / 5,432 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   286.66 ft / 87.37 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   263.32 ft / 80.26 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   286.66 ft / 87.37 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 80 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   286.66 ft / 87.37 m   23.64 ft / 7.21 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 29,674 shp / 22,137 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,429 tons (70% coal)

Complement:
   1,039 - 1,351

Cost:
   £2.299 million / $9.196 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,497 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 11,148 tons, 42.0 %
      - Belts: 4,828 tons, 18.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 501 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 3,185 tons, 12.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,365 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 268 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,440 tons, 5.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,707 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,557 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43,654 lbs / 19,801 Kg = 31.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.46

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.782
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (24 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (24 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.10 ft / 6.43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 42,615 Square feet or 3,959 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 836 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.49
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

If you wanted to use her you could just rename her honestly I wont be building anything like this.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 02:23:28 PM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   26.300 t light; 27.944 t standard; 29.449 t normal; 30.653 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   585,93 ft / 557,74 ft x 100,00 ft x 30,00 ft (normal load)
   178,59 m / 170,00 m x 30,48 m  x 9,14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12.382 lbs / 5.617 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   357,19 ft / 108,87 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   144,36 ft / 44,00 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
     56,20 ft / 17,13 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   6,00" / 152 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   389,99 ft / 118,87 m   28,48 ft / 8,68 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 5 shafts, 48.069 shp / 35.859 Kw = 22,66 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.709 tons (85% coal)

Complement:
   1.123 - 1.461

Cost:
   £2,589 million / $10,356 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.548 tons, 5,3 %
   Armour: 9.585 tons, 32,5 %
      - Belts: 3.375 tons, 11,5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 411 tons, 1,4 %
      - Armament: 2.830 tons, 9,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.681 tons, 9,1 %
      - Conning Tower: 288 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 2.631 tons, 8,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12.237 tons, 41,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.149 tons, 10,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36.957 lbs / 16.763 Kg = 26,9 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 6,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,616
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,58 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,18 ft / 8,59 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Stern:      17,95 ft / 5,47 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,77 ft / 5,72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 41.405 Square feet or 3.847 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1.069 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,15
      - Longitudinal: 2,00
      - Overall: 1,22
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

im a old fool
Here it is!!!
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 26, 2007, 02:29:32 PM
or there is this (Italia would consider building this ship honestly)

Italia-BB-1909, Italia Heavy BB laid down 1909

Displacement:
   23,993 t light; 25,201 t standard; 26,550 t normal; 27,629 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   558.58 ft / 550.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   170.26 m / 167.64 m x 27.43 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 11,976 lbs / 5,432 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   286.66 ft / 87.37 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   263.32 ft / 80.26 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   286.66 ft / 87.37 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 80 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   286.66 ft / 87.37 m   23.64 ft / 7.21 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 29,674 shp / 22,137 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,429 tons (70% coal)

Complement:
   1,039 - 1,351

Cost:
   £2.299 million / $9.196 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,497 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 11,137 tons, 41.9 %
      - Belts: 4,828 tons, 18.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 501 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 3,174 tons, 12.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,365 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 268 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,440 tons, 5.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,719 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,557 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43,898 lbs / 19,912 Kg = 32.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.782
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (24 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (24 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.10 ft / 6.43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 42,615 Square feet or 3,959 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 837 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.53
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Korpen on October 26, 2007, 02:30:17 PM
Quote from: ledeper on October 26, 2007, 02:23:28 PM
Erzatz Isbre, Baltic Confedration Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   26.300 t light; 27.944 t standard; 29.449 t normal; 30.653 t full load

   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,15
      - Longitudinal: 2,00
      - Overall: 1,22
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

im a old fool
Here it is!!!
Nice, now you can cut on or two thousands tons from her displacement, as your overall hull strength is more then 1,00. :)
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: P3D on October 26, 2007, 02:38:48 PM
I think 6000nm@10 won't be enough for a BC dreadnought. Baltic lines of communication to the colonies are much longer than what Italy has. I suggest steaming distance from Trondheim to the South Atlantic isles, and from those isles to Gujarat should be the range requirement.

Other places where you can shave off a bit:
- one inch or two from barbette armor, no need for thick armor below the weather deck.
- half an inch of deck armor
- decrease freeboard
- bow angle should be closer to vertical, rather 15 than 45 degrees.
Other changes:
- change to 4 shafts instead of 5
- increase torpedo bulkhead thickness.
- I'd exchange 8 4" guns for four 6" ones
- increase secondary armor to 6"
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 27, 2007, 01:47:49 AM
Ahoj!
6000-6500 nm seems OK. That's the distance from Norway to the Chuvosa Islands (the big South Atlantic archipelago). As to taking the long way around, through the GIUK gap - if the Normans and or the French block the direct routes (La Manche, Suez), then the war most likely is with them - and they are close at hand :)

And there are friendly neutrals on the way - Iberians, Austro-Hungarians ...

Borys
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Sachmle on October 27, 2007, 11:22:50 AM
My contribution to the conversation:

Enter ship name, Enter country Battleship laid down 1908 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   23,100 t light; 24,458 t standard; 26,233 t normal; 27,653 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   553.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 88.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   168.55 m / 167.64 m x 26.82 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,370.00lbs / 621.42kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 1.81" / 46.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,280 lbs / 5,570 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   355.75 ft / 108.43 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   194.25 ft / 59.21 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   10.0" / 254 mm   355.75 ft / 108.43 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,130 shp / 35,905 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,194 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   1,029 - 1,339

Cost:
   £2.433 million / $9.732 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,537 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 9,785 tons, 37.3 %
      - Belts: 4,910 tons, 18.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,498 tons, 9.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,110 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 266 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,383 tons, 9.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,095 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,133 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,875 lbs / 14,005 Kg = 22.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
   Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 17.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.678
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,018 Square feet or 3,532 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 836 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on October 27, 2007, 12:53:56 PM
Ahoj!
Quite nice, Sachmle. But I'd give her more beam, to improve stability. The trend on the board is that 1,10 seems to be the minimum.

Borys
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on October 27, 2007, 01:55:14 PM
then there is always this option only 12" guns but 24kts

Italia-BB-1909, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1909

Displacement:
   19,001 t light; 20,441 t standard; 21,500 t normal; 22,347 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 27.43 m  x 7.92 m

Armament:
      9 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on side
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8,807 lbs / 3,995 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   346.17 ft / 105.51 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   203.81 ft / 62.12 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   346.17 ft / 105.51 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   346.17 ft / 105.51 m   24.34 ft / 7.42 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,911 shp / 36,488 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,905 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   887 - 1,154

Cost:
   £1.925 million / $7.700 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,101 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 7,647 tons, 35.6 %
      - Belts: 3,670 tons, 17.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 312 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armament: 2,145 tons, 10.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,320 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 200 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,329 tons, 10.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,182 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,240 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,976 lbs / 13,143 Kg = 33.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.585
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.73 ft / 6.01 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 35,688 Square feet or 3,316 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 809 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: khymerion on November 05, 2007, 06:04:44 PM
*pokes head up from the foundries*

Nice ship you have there...  Seems time has been good to you... centerline and superfiring and all...  *looks at the well weathered drawings in the forgotten and dust covered drafting rooms*  Wish we had that in my day...
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on November 05, 2007, 06:18:02 PM
oh im not BC I was proposing a design that Italia is capable of building.  (to my knowlage im still the only one that can do SF and all centerline)  Although everyone else is closing in on me fast in that respect (and i still only have one of them ><)
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Ithekro on November 05, 2007, 06:43:43 PM
Rohan is ahead of you slightly in that field, just they have been quiet on the shipbuilding front for a little while (still need to put up my sim report).  Rohan has just finished a nine gun Battlecruiser armed with 12 inch guns in triple turrets and is abut to lay down a third to its class.  New Rohirrim ships will probably be designed for 1909.  The teo Battleships currently uner construction are armed with eight 14 inch guns in twin turrets.  Both classes use superfiring turrets.  Rohan was also the nation in Navalism to build ships with stacked turrets (like the Kentucky and Virginia classes) useing twin 9 inch guns over 11 inch guns. This did ont work so good, bt the ships are presently retained as coastal battleships.

The Baltic Fleet needs to be able to make any Russian or Ukranian attempts to move on the Swedish or German coast.  The Northern Fleet needs to be able to engage the UKA and perhaps French Forces in at least a standoff engagement if things ever turn bad in the North Sea or Northern Atlantic.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Carthaginian on November 05, 2007, 06:50:12 PM
CSA can do it as well, just hasn't yet as the Nuevo Leon class was conceived prior to our being able to build them, and has been judged adequate for the next 5-10 years for general service due to weight of shell and armor protection.

But you better believe that the CSA has all centerline, superfiring designs in the works.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on November 05, 2007, 06:51:53 PM
hehehe i figured as much thats why i said to my knowlage, I knew someone else had to be capable of building them, also i just got 14" guns.  my bbs cary 12" mains atm im working on a 14" bb but im not sure ill be able to build them any time soon.
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Borys on November 06, 2007, 01:06:10 AM
Ahoj!
I just discovered that this ship is a little beyond available Baltikum technology.
Borys
Title: Re: The first Baltic Confederation Dreadnougth
Post by: Tanthalas on November 06, 2007, 01:19:42 AM
ya i was posting versions that could be built with outside help.  (i myself have the 13.5"/14" gun, but I dont have a mount for it yet.  tripple 12" I have though, so it is possible that I may rework my 9x12" ship for my next bb