Destroyer Killer?

[Desertfox]

A ship being considered for 1907. It uses a new twin 4" mount. Designed with the Chinese experience in mind. Torpedo tubes can fire a new 14" anti-TB torpedo just developed.


New Switzerland Destroyer Killer laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   1,902 t light; 1,996 t standard; 2,291 t normal; 2,527 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   320.00 ft / 320.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 17.40 ft (normal load)
   97.54 m / 97.54 m x 9.75 m  x 5.30 m

Armament:
      10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (5x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 336 lbs / 152 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   8 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 21,868 shp / 16,314 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 5,200nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 531 tons

Complement:
   165 - 215

Cost:
   £0.235 million / $0.939 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 42 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 147 tons, 6.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 121 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 950 tons, 41.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 743 tons, 32.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 389 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,131 lbs / 513 Kg = 35.3 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.05 ft / 3.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,532 Square feet or 607 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 54 lbs/sq ft or 264 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

I have my doubts that you can launch 14" torps from 18" tubes.  They just wouldn't sit right.

I don't really care for the twin mounts; really anachronistic.  A deck plan would be good, because it's a lot of stuff on a small hull.

[miketr]

That looks more like a WW2 destroyer to be honest.

[Desertfox]

I was thinking about using the discarding sabot principle on the torpedoes. Shouldnt be too difficult.

As for the twin mounts, its kind of a protest against the rules. A more period type ship would have 8x4" in singles, 30kts+, and an overall strength of 0.75. But while the rules allow me to build thi, they dont allow me to build the other more realistic ship.

EDIT: The ship is based on the Jaguars, with the twin 4" replacing the single 5".

[maddox]

Perfectly possible.  Even in the rules.
But the twin mounts are unpowered.  Have fun turning these fast enough to get a serious  chance of hitting a darting TB. 
The main reason this setup wasn't used in history. Powered mounts weren't accurate enough,and unpowered big/heavy mounts to unwieldy.

And, the MK 25mm machinegunheavy ships will have a field day shooting at the ship, the splinter shields will protect the gun crews up front, but nothing from any other angle.

On the tubes. Even now ,shoving in an adaptor in a big tube to fire a small torpedo isn't ideal.  Why not using  small torpedo above water tubes- less weight needed- and for the heavy punch underwater tubes.

Another thing.  Ever looked into the MK torpedoboats? These are shallow draft.... Try to hit these with a torpedo . Your original ships are all deep draft, and that was a factor in your disadvantage during the MK war.

[Korpen]

I was thinking about using the discarding sabot principle on the torpedoes. Shouldnt be too difficult.

As for the twin mounts, its kind of a protest against the rules. A more period type ship would have 8x4" in singles, 30kts+, and an overall strength of 0.75. But while the rules allow me to build thi, they dont allow me to build the other more realistic ship.

EDIT: The ship is based on the Jaguars, with the twin 4" replacing the single 5".

What ship would that be? The only destroyer that is even close (historically) is the Russian Novik, and she was laid down in 1911, and only had half the number of guns.
This ship is about equal in firepower and speed to historic cruisers twice the size.

[Desertfox]

Course if the MK ships are close enough to use 25mm guns they are perfectly in range for the 40mm pom poms...

Yes the TT layout is not ideal but I do want the capability to fire the standard 18" torpedoes and the ability to use the new 14" torpedoes on my other ships. Also I dont like undewater tubes, not one of my ships have them.

I know about the shallow draft MK TBs which is why I developed the 14" torpedo. The new 14" is designed specificlly for killing Torpedo Boats, its shallow running and very fast, but at a cost of very short range and small warhead. However these disadvantages are no problem in a short range melee or against the samll torpedo boats its designed to kill.

The Jaguars ( http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=666.0 ) are my newest light cruisers. That is one area in which I am ahead, instead of trying for a Dreadnought I went for its Light Cruiser (Fisherite) equivalent. Hence the Jaguars have an All Big Gun armament and very high speed. The Novik is half the size and 10 knots faster so not a true comparision.

How I came up with this ships is quite simple. I was planning a direct line of Light Cruisers, however the Hull Strength and Turbine rules put an end to that. So instead of building ships which where basiclly the same as others 4 years older I decided to come up with new ideas. I needed a ship that could put out a hail of fire, so I took the basic Jaguar hull and substituted 4" twins for the 6" singles. But it is just one ship being considered I probably wont build it.